Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this.

However I've just seen my first VM anti pirate STB advert, at about 20:29 on Virgin 1, complete with free phone number to report dodgy boxes.

Is this a new push by VM to try and get people to stop using the boxes (by making them aware of it being a crime), and by raising awareness of the number to call?

I don't think I've ever seen a VM advert dodgy STB advert, or the number to call before.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

BIIIIIIIGGGG push ;)

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Personally anybody who uses illegal boxes should be black listed for life from using any VM service.

Perhaps from using Sky.

with the exception of a phone only service

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Last time I heard that I had fingernails embedded in the back of my hand..

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

I wonder if the advert is on youtube?

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

:D:D:D

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

:D Was there bad language involved too?

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

The was probably a mention of some nuts getting removed from...........I cannot quite remember as my voice seems to go higher at the memory.:D

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Topic?I believe there is one somewhere in this thread.;)

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

About bloody time

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

yeah but were not allowed to talk about dodgy boxes :shocked:

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

I think we can talk about efforts being made to stop them. We just can't talk about how to get them/where to get them/what they are called

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

I'll say it again.

You are allowed to talk about dodgy boxes. You are NOT allowed to discuss specifics of how to obtain services illegally, such as methods/codes used, or where to obtain the boxes.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Whats Sky got to do with Virgin?

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Hopefully they'll ensure that any homes found using dubious equipment are disconnected, the cable serving the home cut or removed, and suitably flagged so that unless they demonstrably change ownership or rental status of the home they will not have cable repulled.

1 strike and you're out. There's no tolerance for this in the US, should be none here. People who use this kit should be sent to prison and their homes blacklisted from ever receiving cable.

That said VM should also invest in a more robust encryption system with it. The present one doesn't cut in. Perhaps with the recent thaw in relations between them and News Corp / Sky they'll start using the same system as Sky :)

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

The point being, if your caught obtaining services fraudulantly you will not only be disconnected from VM ,but as an added deterent you would also be blacklisted from obtaining services from another provider. As they would also be doing it to another provider, so would make sense to make it difficult for these people to get a service from whatever provider.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Yeh they are getting serious on dodgy boxes.

there will be letters sent to people who have been caught with them, also there will be a message that appears on there tv that says, that it is an unathorised box and to cease using it ! :)

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

They have been saying this since time began and its still hasnt done much good
still just as much as ever going on, ****es you off when you find information from such sites and you see them trading mac codes on YOUR ubr.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

I dont think its people who have been caught with them, from looking at *other* forums, lots of people who recieved the letters bought them from suppliers who had been raided & closed down by the police, so it looks like VM have gained access to those business's sales list

The message is a waste of time, they know they are getting goods for free, so seeing a message on a channel wont mean anything to them.. Just delete the channel its been attached to, & move on..

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Not sure about putting dodgy STB owning scumbags in prison, but I like your point,its got teeth.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

To make a major change in the coding, they would have to replace the boxes, so the only coding changes likely are those which can be done by a firmware update or card reprogramming.
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Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

http://www.nds.com/press_releases/Premiere_150408.html

I assume that's wrapping Nagra around NDS, so it may be possible with just a card swap-out.

Premiere currently use Nagra albeit version 2 and I suspect their receivers will be more flexible than Virgin's ageing range but you never know.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

What about dodgy modems then ? I find it very annoying that people are stealing bandwidth and forcing the paying users to have such a poor service in some parts !

Would rather here their doing something about that TBH.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

They don't do anything when you phone up anyway, I informed VM that a person was using 3 chipped STB's, they got back to me and said they are on the basic package and no information was coming back off the box to suggest otherwise. I have spoken to some installers over the last few months and they have said, as long as you are signed up to the basic package there's no way they can trace you, one installer said that there were people out there who were running chipped boxes and had been for the last 5 or so years.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Can anyone confirm that?:erm:

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

i can tell you that as a principal service tech i get mails from fraud with addresses that have been reported as having illegal equipment on the network and they are very specific 'disconnect at node'.but there again youve got to remember that these people who use illegal equipment (be it a modem or a stt) will (as said earlier) be subscribing to a package,also remember it doesnt have to be CATV as a subscription to broadband will keep your co-axial connection going to your property.:(

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

It was on of the Mods on here who ran the test Maggie, I gave him the house number and post code.


Here's one reply I got back.

Hi Nidge,

ntl have got back to me and have told me that the customer is paying for all three services and has been doing for the last 3 years. Do the people you know about have an additional device that ntl don't know about?

Thanks,

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

obviously they woudl not disconnect on just the strength of a phone call though ? I mean if someone is paying for service but gets wrongly grassed up

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

i dont know where they get their info david,but these cases are few and far between anyway,which may suggest they scrutinize the reported peoples acc first, (just guessing at that bit) but i would be loathe to disconnect a customer of mine if what they were paying me would justify leaving them connected.
its a catch22 situation in those circumstances i suppose.:(

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

No me neither Toto heck we haven't even got the space to put violent offenders behinds bars

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

To be fair, what can VM do about it? If a customer is paying for their services, VM only have your word for it that they are also using chipped boxes. I doubt that VM would spend time, effort & money on getting the police involved & getting search warrents issued on the basis of a phone call.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

I would have hoped that in that sort of case a note could be put on the system for any future engineer call outs along the lines of "check box is normal, disconnect any spare lines" or something.

Mind you, you'd have to be pretty silly to call out an engineer if you're using a dodgy box instead of a legitimate one.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

So what proof exactly would get VM to come out..What actual proof do they actually need from someone phoning in response to these ads?:erm:

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

A major thing VM could start with is actually disconnecting all the addresses that have no contract with them that would chop a fair few of these dodgy boxes off for a start.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

What I mean, is if the person who may well be paying for a lower service, but using a dodgy box calls for an engineer due to a problem with say the line.

Not send the engineer out specially, but a note on the account to keep an eye out for signs that there has been any fiddling with the service if he's called out for a routine problem, and a note of exactly what is meant to be in use at the address (how many STB's etc).
For example Knockoff Nigel (not just DVD's any more:p) has VM's 3 most basic services, but he's not very with it and has a dodgy box in addition to his normal one - he has a line problem that requires an engineer to be called out, but not being too bright he leaves it connected in one room with his modem (or leaves the splitter in place).
The engineer calls round, and checks the levels on the lines* and having seen the "services" note logs the discrepency, and informs control when he gets back in case either the notes he got were wrong, or there is a theft of service.

Of course if VM already do give engineers a note of the exact services it's redundant**, and I would hope that the engineers would already keep an eye open for dodgy connections to the grey box etc (in the same way meter readers are, I believe meant to note if the gas/electric meter shows any signs of being tampered with).

*Something the better engineers seem to do for all the lines anyway whenever they deal with a signal problem on one (I guess in case that change affects the other lines).

**I know in the past I've had the odd engineer out who wasn't aware that we had 3 STB's on our account when we've had to call them out, and assumed the third line was just for the cable modem.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

So lets say a customer signs up for a basic package but swaps his box out for a dodgy one to receive all channels.
Surley VM can detect that the original box is no longer connected? It has a modem that has a mac address that will contact the servers for a IP address. If that box fails to connect over time then their should be a major clue.

Am i right?

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Not really. What happens if someone goes away on holiday for six months and turns the STB off? Should Virgin automatically assume something dodgy is going on?

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

You are right, but that's not how a dodgy box would be connected. ;)

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Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Well if Maggie Thatcher was still in charge, she would have sorted them out.;)

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Let's not get too off topic please


I'm still not clear about this..Just what evidence does someone phoning VM on this new telephone number to report a dodgy illegal user have to provide for VM to be able to pursue the matter and gain a prosecution?

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

well then there would be no activity on their line then :p: He's saying there is activity on the line but not from the STB that they have on record for that one

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Not in every case but it would back up other evidence such as a report on the phone.

I think really there is little VM can do other than change their encryption system which would be financially prohibitive.
IMHO the ads are merely to show willing to the shareholders.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Was meant to be a bit of a joke, poking a bit of fun...

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

So you're basically saying anyone who gets caught with a dodgy VM box would go on and rip sky off aswell....yeah ok.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

:sleep:

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

It does not take to much of a leap to assume that someone willing to steal from one service would be willing to steal from another. Especially if their only going to be cut off if caught.

There's no real deterrent there when the only risk is being cut off.

Obvouisly this wouldnt be the case with all offenders but to have a blacklist accross the board would be more of a deterrent I think and be a more reasonable punishment for the crime in the first place.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Same thing happens with airlines - you get caught causing a disturbance on a flight, and the airline you are flying with will refuse to carry you, and inform all other airlines on the route you have been denied passage and the reasons why.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

So nobody has an answer?

I'm wondering what constitutes proof when one considers that in the past the public have reported people doing this and VM have appeared to have done nothing and on some occasions have said there was not enough evidence.Surely they have to go on more than one persons 'hearsay' evidence?

Oh and to the person who seemed to think that I don't support the idea of VM actually getting firm about this what I actually want is that such offenders are to be arrested,placed in the stocks and pelted with rotten food...or even better, with their dodgy chipped boxes.;)

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

the policy as far as i know is to ring the number and let the fraud dept deal with it

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

My old grandmother, bless her, had a perfect cure for people who commited ANY crime - she would have people put to death for as much as dropping litter! Using illegal cables boxes would probably have brought back being hung drawn and quartered. :):)

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

I would have thought that if the name and address of the perp isn't on their billing list then they would be interested in having a closer look.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

The old values are still the best!

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

quite a few would probably pay for the least amount of services but use a chipped box to get the whole package

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

i have been given three addresses from the fraud department to check out following information received. All three are suspected of using illegal set top's and all are telephone only customers.So they'd better watch out cos i'm coming to get them:D

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Agreed, hung drawn and quartering is worse than death. :D

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Sorry to be pedantic - but game is hung, people are hanged.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Interesting.

How do you actually "check out" a customers address for illegal STB's?

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Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

good ad that.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Well illegal set-top box users are fair game ;)

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Virgin seem to roll out their anti-piracy adds every year around this time. Are there are lot of dodgy boxed being given away as stocking fillers? Either way, I read an article recently saying that no individual user has ever been successfully prosecuted for using a chipped box, only the people who sell them have, so aren't ads like this just a silly waste of money?

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

yes but sky is better!

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

True. It's virtually piracy safe.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

And I am well hung :cool:




Sigh I bring nothing to this thread

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

not at all, do your home work...card sharing

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Which is very easy to get caught doing...

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

indeed im not condoning any piracy im merely stating all systems have been hacked on one level or another, sky are a lot more proactive at closing the gaps.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Thing is, I'm not sure how proactive cable could have been when there 3 different networks and 3 different software platforms

Until they merged and became Virgin Media, neither ntl or telewest seemed to particularly interesting to co-ordinating things

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

And i thought i was intolerant of criminals. :ninja: :sniper:
Throw away the keys for these bunch of wossnames

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

lets face it, it will cost vm millions to change there encryption system and not to mention change all set top boxes, my view is they can't afford to do this because if the hack is closed alot of ppl paying subscription will move to sky, because lets face it sky tv is much better and is worth the mone so vm will lose out. One HD channel on the vm network whats that about??

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

The encryption within the boxes is firmware/software so all it would cost them is the development costs of the new firmware, distribution would be as any new online upgrade..

What VM don;t seem to want to do is to pay the licence for the new encryption :(

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Thats a good thing, but they would loose alot of revenue, because ppl with hacked boxes do pay the minimum subscription, but if the hack is closed alot of ppl will cancel their subscription.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

It also loses them money... Would you be happy if you owned a company and people where obtaining your services illegaly? This meaning that you're losing profit.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

I wouldn't be happy but I will do something about it, vm ain't bothred.

VM don't make much profit on there TV service they probably make peanuts, however much of there profit is form there broadband and telephone service.
The reason why I feel vm don't want to invest in a new encryption system is because they feel its not worth the money.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Is this a fact, or an assumption?

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Or maybe even someone who doesn't want better encryption as they have a hacked box?

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

So why do you do it then? You'd hate it if you were losing profit, but you don't care when it's the otherway around?
I always thought it was the TV side that earned them the profit? I think I read it somewhere on here. Broadband in the UK isn't very good for profit or something? Or am I getting mixed up with something else?

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

I do it for educational purposes only.... If something goes wrong with my tv or broadband I can fix it myself without having to phone those donuts in india who don't have a clue. anything box or modem related i can fix good sence of satisfaction thats why I do it and it saves me a few bob. Andif your thinking I am not a trader.

Its all part of the rat race i'm afraid, VM don't care about you they just want your money.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Suspected fraud and money laundering ring raided - 25 November 2008

http://www.bdrecorder.co.uk/content/...A59%3A21%3A587

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

That's the biggest pile of self-justifying horse manure I've ever read.

At least have the decency to admit you're a thief. The man down at the corner shop doesn't care about you either. He just wants your money. Do you nick newspapers and sweets off him?

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

LOL, newspaper and sweets come on, VM is a multi million pound company I am not physically stealing anything of them, if VM wanted to put a stop to this they would of done it along time ago, but they are letting this happen, i bet even the vm techs are at it. When i moved into my new place I subscibed with vm the two tech came down and put one line into my house downstairs, I also wanted an extra connection upstairs so i paid them £30 and they happily sorted it out, if I went through the proper channels vm would of charged me alot more. Why pay £87 pm or what ever its is, whilst you can get it for free. I don't make money or anything from doing this, its for my benifit only.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Ah, the old 'victimless crime' fallacy. Well, if that's how you live with yourself, you'd best get on with it. Let's hope the company's abuse team don't catch up with you. That would be a real shame.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

cheers, off to watch some free telly :p:

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Right. And I bet you're surfing with a cloned modem as well.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

how you guess??? searching for some macs at the same time...20mb speed loving it, only £4.99pm not bad is it.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Thieving **** are fairly predictable.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

These are reasons why prices can be high. If people actually paid for the proper service, they'd be able to lower the prices a bit. I can't see it happening, but it could happen.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

I dn't think this will ever happen, look at sky they have a secure system one that has never been hacked, but there prices are sky high.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Their prices are a reflection of the going market rate for comparable services, which has been artificially inflated by the fact that the providers of those comparable services are being ripped off by theives.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Look who owns Sky... Infact, you could get all the channels for free with Sky. A couple of years ago, a mate of mine had something that gave him the full list of channels for free. So it's not that secure, is it?

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

I bet that was a dodgy VM box , and something tells me that you probably have one too. :dunce:

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Nope, it was a Sky box. And, no. I don't have a dodgy box.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Oh for goodness sakes will people please avail themselves of the ignore function..:rolleyes:

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

I said "virtually". Do your home work. Card sharing systems are not generally available at your local car boot sale or from the dodgy bloke at the pub, and it requires a great deal of technical knowledge. Final conclusion: Sky is virtually piracy safe.

Back on topic: I heard the cable pirates took a bit of a hit today. Have VM finally sorted their piracy problems, or will this just be another 2-3 day break, before new software patches are implemented like last time? Any of our resident pirates got any comments?

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

You heard wrong, just another key change, boxes were up again within 1-2 hours.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

It wasn't just another key change, it was similar to what happened earlier in the year when the dodgy boxes wouldn't autoupdate. It's a minor inconvenience, as the keys have to be entered manually every time they change.

No doubt a patch will bought out within a day to fix it, just like last time.

In the meantime, could you imagine the panic if they started rolling the keys, say, every hour.:D

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Or better yet, implemented a system that wasn't completely and utterly compromised almost a decade ago. Sky doesn't have any of these problems, why can't VM move any aspect of their service into this decade?

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Yeah the downtime was minimal on this one - according to the guy sitting opposite me at work this evening.
Same old situation, the boxes go down, he's talking half of the town through how to update them and they are all running by the evening news as he's on his way in here.

If they really want to sort it, they really need to start pushing out a new system

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

How often do these keys get changed? And long does it take for these boxes to start working again?

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

I'm not sure how often the keys change (once a week, once a fortnight?), but when they do, it is normally taken care of by the autoupdate software in the box. However, a few months ago (around April I think) VM managed to somehow bugger up the autoupdate software in the dodgy boxes so that they received incorrect keys, while legit boxes worked normally.

This meant that until someone produced a patch file, the dodgy boxes had to be updated manually every time the keys changed. I think it only took a couple of days until a fix was available.

It looks like VM have used the same method again today.

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