Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Since Liberty Global took over VM, i've noticed that frontline staff seem very reluctant to escalate problems that they have been unable or unwilling to resolve at first contact level.

Has anyone experienced this? I'm beginning to wonder if LG are now somehow putting pressure on their staff not to escelate problems.

Examples are, some time ago, I had to raise a formal complaint when a CS person outright refused to do so (now sorted out).

The other day I was not happy with the amount offered for a total loss of TV & BB. The person I was speaking to tried to make out that her decision was final and nobody else could/would be able to help me, even when I pointed out that I could leave due to the forthcoming price rise.

It was only when I mentioned that one of her colleagues had recently been disciplined for doing exactly what she was attempting to do that she was able to do what she previously claimed was impossible/pointless.

Maybe it's just their bruised pride or ego at the suggestion that they've somehow failed that's causing this behaviour??

This news item posted by Mick does seem to suggest that CS is deteriorating since LG took over the company:

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/...t-virgin-media

Edit: On all occasions that I've experienced this, the staff were based in the UK. Anyone expecting any sense from the offshore call centre is on a hiding to nothing!

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Speaking personally, I have always found Virgin Media customer services very helpful. I've certainly never had cause to want any issue escalated.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Same here, although I do tend to be respectful to them.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Same here OB.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

I should hope that you do!

However, as someone who has been involved with CS for most of my life, a professional should be able to handle all the different types of people that the public are.

The woman I was initially speaking to had to be corrected for her lack of respect/maturity as on two occasions she tutted and sighed.

The complaints team have said that they will deal with this and adequately compensated me for the various issues I encountered with both CS and loss of service. The man I subsequently spoke to couldn't have been nicer and more helpful.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Absolutely- and people who don’t /shouldn’t/ get a thing!

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Think you're getting posters and what they've said mixed up there Dilli.

Assuming that you meant to address the point about speaking to others with respect, obviously this should be what is aimed for.

However, as I said earlier a professional should be able to deal with all customers in a professional, non judgemental and non discriminatory way- in fact it's the law.

Why? Well, some people find it difficult to express themselves effectively for a variety of reasons.

As an example, there was a case where an autistic girl who could hardly speak was being encouraged to become more independent. She went into a shop whilst being observed by a carer and pointed to a carton and said "milk".

The shopkeeper subjected her to comments such as "try saying please and thank you", "were you dragged up" etc.

This knocked the girl back immensely and shattered her confidence and self esteem, simply because the shopkeeper was being egotistical. Thankfully, legal action was taken on her behalf to prevent him repeating his behaviour.

As you will be aware Dilli, some disabilities are invisible, especially at the other end of a telephone!

VM do have a duty to protect their staff from abuse, threats etc, but staff should never be treating customers less favourably or be being deliberately obstructive and difficult if the way that they are being spoken to meets with their displeasure.

I ensure that all new starters watch a recording that I have. It shows a rude, abrupt and angry woman arriving to check into a hotel after a bad journey. The first scenario is where the receptionist responds in the same manner. The situation escelates out of control, the management become involved and the receptionist is disciplined.

The second scenario is where the receptionist remains calm, polite and respectful. The guest eventually becomes embarrassed at her own behaviour and apologises to the receptionist, which is normal in most cases like this.

Business are in the game to sell their products, not pander to any individual employees pride or to stroke their ego.

Anyway, we're drifting off topic from the salient point of the thread.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

The fault affecting my connection has been unsolved after over TWO Years.

I have reported it to VM via the forums for all that time.

http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/...2917052#M47374

The response from Vm was not what I wanted to hear...

VM has advised me to take it up with CISAS!!!!!!

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

That's a ridiculous situation Taf and is also at odds with CISAS policy. They won't take on a case until it's been escalated and all VM complaints processes have been exhausted.

This is another reason why I can't fathom why frontline staff are so reluctant to escelate matters.

Sounds like VM are now adopting the same attitude as banks ie we won't help you and you can like, lump it or go to the regulator, whilst knowing full well that lots of people won't do so for various reasons.

I'd urge you to go CISAS to force VM to act (I believe this costs VM money, whatever the outcome, but is free for you to use) and consider leaving them.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Seriously ?

I'm amazed anyone helps you tbh, if you tried to "correct" me you would be told where to go.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

tell them paying your monthly bill is 'out of your hands' ;)

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

I am worried that if I do take it to CISAS, VM will use it as an excuse to cut me off. :(

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Well, it's your absolute right to put up with staff being rude/disrespectful/immature towards you for a service that you pay a lot of money for each month.

Whilst, in the most serious incident, he didn't "tell me where to go", he might as well have done. I wouldn't have accepted this from my own staff, let alone someone else's!

I escelated this to senior level and invited them to form their own judgement after listening to the recording. They agreed that the agent behaved inappropriately, took action to deal with him and compensated me accordingly.

---------- Post added at 19:40 ---------- Previous post was at 19:31 ----------

LOL!

They can't do anything vindictive to 'punish' you for complaining, although I do believe that your account becomes frozen which prevents any changes to up/downgrades until the dispute is resolved.

Any VM staff reading this will probably be able to provide more info. than I can. If not, I'm happy to contact a friend who works for VM, without mentioning any names etc to him, to ascertain the correct position :)

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

You do seem to have a lot of conflicts with VM CS staff...

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Not really, I couldn't count the number of times on one hand that I've had to escelate matters to senior management and I've been a personal and business customer for nearly two decades.

It just seems odd that staff appear to have become so reluctant to escelate matters since Malone bought the company. Are staff being threatened with penalisation or being incentivised not to do so?

Nobody from VM has confirmed that this is the case*, but there again Jobcentre staff have effectively been told by the Government to keep their mouths shut about targets to sanction jobless, sick and disabled people, but that's for another thread.

* Please don't respond to my question if you think this could cause problems for you at work; nobody wants that.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Its a pity VM managers are as spineless as they sound.

You really must be the most incredibly unlucky person in the world, getting all these "rude/disrespectful/immature" agents all the time.

I wonder what (or who) is the common factor in all these incidents you suffer. :scratch:

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

The recorded facts canny lie.

As I said to Hugh, I couldn't fill a hand with the number of times that i've had to escelate matters in nearly twenty years. The vast majority of (UK based) people I've dealt with have been wonderful, but it only takes a few rotten eggs to tarnish an organisation and these people need to shape up or ship out.

I know of a hotel where a minority of bad staff led to its closure, unfortunately all the decent hard working staff were made redundant as well :(

If only it had been nipped in the bud earlier.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

When I worked in a call center for a well known mobile phone provider it was frowned upon to escalate a matter to a supervisor or anyone higher the attitude towards agents were if an agent escalates then the agent is not doing their job properly and would be discouraged from doing so therefore as it is expected for the first line agents to sort everything out.
Sometimes supervisors etc would refuse to accept an escalation leaving customers livid and the agent getting an ear bashing from the customer and employer for asking for an escalation. I have seen agents reduced to tears it can be a very difficult and stressful job.
Also I wonder if they just wanted to get you off the phone not to be disrespectful to you but so that they could reach their calls handled target? Where I was if a call exceeded a certain time regardless of how complex the call maybe the call handler would be penalised.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Thanks for the insight dodgem; I rather suspect that this is something along the lines as to what's now going on since John Malone's LG purchased the company.

He's well known for sweating his assets, sounds like he's sweating his employees too :td:

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Richard, you expect everyone at work to be perfect. This is unreasonable. Do you think you are perfect? I suspect you do. But the reality is that none of us are. A little tolerence goes a long way.

I have dealt with customer services from time to time with different cable companies over 20 odd years. They have been friendly and helpful and so much better than BT (although I am sure things at BT have changed in recent times).

I think that one's own attitude is important if trying to get an issue resolved. I do believe that continued problems with Virgin Media Customer Services may indicate that the problem lies with the complainant. As a general rule, at least.

Blaming John Malone for your problems I think is a bit of a stretch. I don't think he has a personal grudge against you. I note that you don't have much regard for Rupert Murdoch either. I think perhaps there is a pattern here.

Sorry, I have tried to be quiet on this since your last outburst towards me, but someone must stand up for people who are doing their best to provide you with a service. I pay tribute to them because they get a lot of grief and yet start their next call as if nothing had happened. But I suppose that someone who is hell bent on getting compensation for relatively minor problems is not going to care an awful lot for those who are trying hard to deal reasonably with a particular issue.

If we could now stop slagging off VM employees who are just trying to do their jobs, this would be appreciated I suspect by most right thinking people.

Once again, my apologies for any upset, but it has to be said.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

I'm not sure which outburst you are referring to, but it appears that it is you that is prone to these.

To address your points, I most certainly am not perfect (it would be impossible to be so after suffering a brain injury). My mantra has always been that if someone is not up to the job, then they must go and this applies to me as much as anybody else. Thus, I now only work part time.

I too have dealt with cable CS for about 20 years and, like yourself, found the vast majority of staff to be polite, helpful, respectful and friendly. However, as previously explained, a professional would not resort to being awkward, rude or treating anybody who met with their displeasure less favourably. Circumstances where this behaviour would ever be appropriate simply do not exist and, in fact, may be illegal in some cases.

VM, however, have a duty to protect their staff from abuse, threats etc and will have policies in place to deal with this. Staff would be expected to follow said practices and not resort to the behaviour referred to above.

As you can see, even though you (and others) have implied that somehow my "attitude" was at fault, you have no basis for suggesting this. Nevertheless, even if this were to be correct, staff should behave like a professional adult at all times. I can also confirm that, upon listening to the recordings, management have at no time made any suggestion that I had behaved improperly or that my "attitude" was at fault in any way.

I don't think that you genuinely believe that I think that John Malone is deliberately targeting myself, this is just plain silly.

What I do believe is that since LG bought VM, staff are being pressurised into not escalating customer problems, even where appropriate. It is interesting to note that none have posted in here to confirm or deny my suspicions, although dodgem 22 kindly gave some insight into the workings of a modern day call centre.

In the modern day workplace people are under a lot of pressure to meet targets set by their employers; this applies to the 999 service, right through to VM. The vast majority do so impeccably and I have at no time "slagged off", as you crudely put it, any VM employee.

Again, as previously stated, I could not count on one hand the amount of times that I have had to escelate any issues to senior management over a period spanning two decades.

You are within your rights not to request compensation for a total loss of service, but I believe that most people would do so after being asked for an ever increasing amount of money every month. It is also astute business practice to offer something to say sorry and maintain customer goodwill.

I have a feeling that someone is following this thread as i've now also been offered the Sky Movie suite of channels on a complimentary basis for a period of time!

This is good business practice and benefits everyone concerned; I am recompensed for the various issues that shouldn't have happened in the first place, VM continue to make a lot of money from me and our business and the employee in question gets some refresher training (AKA attitude adjustment!), so will find her job easier and more enjoyable.

I'm a little concerned at your use of the term "right thinking", considering one of my disabilities, but you do appear to enjoy stirring things up at times, not all the time though, as noted by myself and other members in various threads.

It must be assumed that blowing this up out of all proportion and making false accusations is simply another one of those occasions.

I do hope that we can now get back to discussing the salient point of this thread as opposed to the OP who happened to create it and that I have covered all the points that you raised and alleviated any misunderstandings.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Hugely entertained by this thread. Never had any issues with Virgin myself, dealing with my own account and on behalf of my parents I've had plenty of contact over the years. Haven't always got the outcome I wanted (free upgrades or discounts) but can't fault the staff for playing the game.

In reality yes, almost every customer service organisation will have an aim/target/aspiration/KPI to resolve complaints at first contact. That's not unique to Virgin.

I have worked as a customer service manager (not for VM). The number of frivilous complaints and unpleasant members of the public who just need to be told twice was quite high, if not the most effective use of my time.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Thanks for adding some more insight from a management perspective; much appreciated.

Research has found that customers often feel better if something is reaffirmed by someone in higher authority, even if the answer is exactly the same.

Can I ask if you would find it acceptable to find your staff tutting, sighing or refusing to escelate any issue to yourself at the insistence of the caller?

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Just watched my recording of yesterday's Rip Off Britain.

A VM customer found that VM had been taking an extra Direct Debit from his account for £8 per month for the last three years, leading to a total overpayment of £272.

He was messed about for some time before VM offered him a 50% refund :shocked:

When he called to accept the offer (I wouldn't have accepted it, but perhaps he just wanted to get the issue resolved), incredibly, he was told "that offer has now expired" :shocked: :shocked:

It's not known if he asked for the matter to be escelated, but he was eventually refunded the full amount of £272 after the BBC consumer programme intervened.

I've also been chatting on the phone today to a friend who works in a mobile phone call centre. Amongst the things we discussed was why people have to do the annoying press 2, press 3, press 5 etc thing.

I said that I assumed that it was to direct each particular type of query to someone who specialised in that area. He said that he didn't know why they did this as all types of calls ended up being routed to the same team of people anyway!

Does anyone else know the answer? All I can think of is that it's to give the impression that the customer is progressing through the system in order to get their call dealt with, when in reality it's just a stalling tactic to give CS staff more time to clear any existing calls that they are currently working on.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

At VM it does affect the team you are routed to, but even if it didn't, it still gives the agent information about who you are and why you are calling, so it shortens the length of the call. And many calls can be handled completely automatically so you don't need to speak to anybody.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Cheers SP, helpful as always :)

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

'You' wouldn't need correcting if 'you' gave the correct information in the first place.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

With regards pressing the option numbers for various departments where I worked these did route you to various departments. In all cases however the system would also automatically read the incoming number anyway and if it was a new connection it would send your call to my department regardless of what was pressed or if the system recognised the number as a high spending customer it would route the call to a special VIP department where the calls would be taken much quicker and agents able to do more for the customer than other departments. Most customers have no idea that depending on what they spend can influence who they talk to lol. Makes business sense I guess.
The system would also have markers for customers if they have been difficult or abusive in the past so the agent as a heads up as they answer. Also it would say how often customer calls as we had a right first time policy if the customer had to call back again within a certain time frame it would be a black mark against the call handler. No idea if VM has these systems in place as it was a different mobile provider I worked for.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

It was a face to face environment but in my experience while not absolutely refusing to escalate matters it was certainly not the case that "I want to speak to a manager" led to member of staff coming to get me to deal with it.

My organisation appropriately trains it's staff to deal with enquiries and complaints. In the first instance staff would be encouraged to explain the situation and why a manager isn't going to change that.

While it make people "feel better" that I tell them instead of a subordinate I bring you back to my previous point about adequate use of time and resource. If everyone who asked to speak to a manager was handed to me I'd have got literally nothing else done.

I do however think that it's amateurish in a call centre that, no matter how much disdain you hold for the person on the other end of the phone, you cannot conceal it given you are only heard on a crackly telephone line.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Have you ever tried using commas?

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Some points:

Operative 1 in your story will have had the authority given the complaint made to offer 50% back.

Operative 2 will not have.

Some higher level of complaints team dealing with the BBC will have had the authority to have paid the whole sum back given the PR involved of the BBC running the story. Indeed, the outcome (should the story air), will make Virgin look slightly incompetent but not unreasonable, which for £136/272 (however you look it) is a bargain compared to the story airing with an unhappy customer £272 out of pocket.

The organisation I worked for certainly dealt with complaints drastically differently depending on whether it was from an individual, a media company on behalf of the same hypothetical individual, or an elected official on behalf of that same individual. Rightly or wrongly, most companies want things dealt with first time at minimum cost.

Similar to how I phoned Sky to cancel and got offered 20% off, then called by a further team offering me 40% during my 30 days, and got further called after my 30 days with an even better offer but sadly I'm under contract with Virgin now. Each level had different amounts of discretion they were entitled to offer depending on how serious they thought I was.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

I'm lost for words, Richard. Yes, let's keep to the subject, but also don't bring your disabilities into the debates on this forum with the apparent intention to stifle debate. We really don't want to know about them, although of course we sympathise.

You do have a kind of point in terms of compensation for services not received, but you seem to be making claims on an industrial scale. Just remember that you are taking money from the rest of us. That puts up prices.

Thanks for that.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

It's actually been aired (Friday just gone). If you want to watch it, it's one of the last articles:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09bcswy

---------- Post added at 02:25 ---------- Previous post was at 01:44 ----------

I and others on this forum have disabilities of varying degrees and will not be made to feel embarrassed or ashamed of them by the likes of you. Whilst there have been problems in the past, you are now the only person who likes to bring the subject up and make innapropriate comments.

You asked if I thought I was perfect, to which I gave an honest answer that I did not and shared very personal life events as to the reasons why.

Your claim that severely disabled people refusing to hide away to suit yourself somehow "stifles debate" is as bizarre as it is offensive.

Re: Allegations of me making claims for compensation on an industrial scale.

On the vast majority of occasions it is VM who have offered to compensate me. It might be for the reason that dodgem22 outlined, I really don't know.

I myself cannot recall the occasions when I've been compensated, due to the affects of the brain damage on my memory, so you certainly won't be able to.

Whatever the amounts involved, it comes across that you are bitter and jealous about it. If you knew what I go through every day, you really wouldn't want to swap places, believe me.

I'm having headaches and trouble sleeping as i'm on new medication and have to be up as my disability support worker is coming. Reading this nastiness just before retiring to bed has really upset me so certainly won't help.

I suggest that you leave the rest of us in peace to debate the subject without your discord.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Ah rip-off Britain. One of my favourite shows of how the gullible public don't know what they are doing.

Some key facts are absent from the story which I'd like to know. Notably what did the £8 relate to, when was said product taken out, under what terms and for what purpose? Did he notify to cancel? If so, when and why didn't he check his bill at that time?

I guess we will never know. However the current mindset is that companies are wrong and the public wh don't read terms and conditions are automatically mis-sold. The news article recently about people outside the minimum term of mobile contracts still paying full price a classic example. If someone hasn't set a reminder or doesn't log in to find out when they can upgrade or switch to SIM only that is their own fault.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Where is there any inappropriate or offensive comment?

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

When you sign up for a new phone with an element of paying for that phone over say 24 months it is not acceptable under any circumstances for the supplying company to continue to charge you for the purchase element of the phone after that 24 months.

The contract should be explicit on the payment terms, i.e. 24 months payments at £X pm then 25th payment onwards at £Y pm.

It is not down to the customer to police this, although it is prudent for the customer to check the correct payments have been taken, it is down to the supplying company to ensure it only takes money it is entitled to.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Richard, no-one is attempting to make you feel embarrassed about your disabilities. I am simply asking you to stop using them to try to get others to climb down when they say something you don't agree with.

As for the subject of this thread, I certainly do think that Customer Services should attempt to avoid an escalation upwards, and if they can achieve this satisfactorily, then fine. There will always be people who try it on and pursue complaints that can't be justified, and I expect it is those folks who complain when their unreasonable demands are refused.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Compared to the previous incarnation of Cable and Wireless, Virgin Media are paragons of virtue.No CS representative has ever been rude to me possibly because I'm unfailingly polite to begin with.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

I agree, Maggy, politeness goes a long way.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Its a pity that good manners and politeness is a anathema to some nowadays as it cost nowt to be good mannered and polite to others.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

There would be no reason for you not to be, but if you read back further in the thread, you'll see CS should always remain polite and never try to treat customers less favourably if the way that they express themselves meets with the displeasure of any CS agent. This could also have legal ramifications.

Again, another offensive and untrue allegation, whilst trying to run rings around a person with a mental impairment who had very little sleep last night which you contributed to.

I have shown your comments to my disability support worker who has suggested that I ask you to stop mentioning my disabilities or, if you feel unable to do so, that you refrain from interacting with me in entirety. This applies even if I choose to mention an integral part of myself or the difficulties that arise as a result during the course of any discussion.

Re: VM bills. It's all about negotiation/playing the game/bartering whatever you want to call it. It's a fact of everyday life. If you don't wish to partake, don't complain if others get a better deal than you do.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Has it ever occurred to you that we all are aware that you have a disability, so you really don't need to mention it time after time after time?

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

You don't own the forum so there for if you mention your disability expect people to to talk about it. I'm not sure were you get off to tell people to stop talking about your disabilities while you can keep talking about them. What a strange post this is.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

RiDICULOUS! You are posting on a public forum and partaking in discussion. Obviously you will get replies to your input. If you don't like the replies you get then maybe it is you who should reconsider interacting with members.

There are many on this forum who have various disabilities of many different degrees, none of them are treated any differently to any other forum member.

Perhaps if you stopped mentioning your disability this issue would go away.

Your disability has no bearing on this thread anyway.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

To be honest I put the blame on the customer for that. If you have a dd and it took you 2 years to notice it then a 50% refund is pretty fair. Some companies would only refhnd 3 or 6 months if it was not the fault of the provider.

I work in CEO complaint and customer relations so am the highest level someone can deal with before it goes to deadlock and the ombudsmen. It's your account and bank account so you should be monitoring it.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

It's important for people to be aware of the full facts so that they can make an informed choice of how best to proceed. Your suggestion that every single member on this forum is aware of my difficulties is utterly ridiculous, most won't be aware and those that do, won't wish to use the forum as a vehicle of spite, harrassment, discrimination etc.

Thus far, your only contributions to this thread have had no bearing upon the salient topic being discussed.

I have not "told" anybody what to do as I do not have the authority as an individual to do so. Upon the advice of my Disability Support Worker, I have merely asked OB to refrain from making comments that are upsetting me. Your interjection, at best, can only be described as "unhelpful".

Disability is an integral part of of me and has impacted on my thought processes, ability to express myself effectively, emotions etc.

As to regards to mentioning it, I didn't for many years over the decade that I have been a member of the forum. When I 'came Out' as disabled, that's when certain members started causing problems for me, the worst offenders were banned, have seen the error of their ways or realised that they were on a hiding to nothing.

Imagine two men arriving into the office tomorrow morning, one gay and one straight and are asked what they did over the weekend. The straight man tells his colleagues that he took his wife and kids to a theme park and the gay man says that he took his boyfriend for a meal. Is he shoving his sexuality down the throat of his co workers?

IIRC you have family with experience of working in mental health/disability services, you could ask them how brain injuries affect people??

I genuinely thought that there was a possibility that I could die over the summer (not that I'm afraid of the illusion of death, but I don't want to leave this Earth just yet!)

I'm glad that you accept that my disabilites have nothing to do with the topic under discussion :tu:

More useful insight into the other side of the coin- thanks Stephen.

It came across to me that VM were simply taking an extra Direct Debit and refusing to refund it, so I did wonder why he didn't simply take them to the small claims court?

With hindsight, it looks more likely to be the case that it's regarding an old product that he'd forgotten and no longer used.

It does seem preposterous to offer 50% back and then casually say "oh, that offer has now expired" though!

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Not at all, some offers made may be time limited or if further calls are made after an offer is rejected then a final offer may be made and if that is rejected the situation will be escalated to deadlock and it's then up to the customer to contact the ombudsmen for their investigation and final outcome, which could be more or even less then they were offered by the provider.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Ahhh right, I've never come across offers of resolution being time limited before; thanks for explaining.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Again RIDICULOUS! He would be answering a question.

Yes I do have family who have worked for the NHS dealing with mental health issues, still do and are very high in the profession. It was also the first job I had when I left school all those years ago so I do have at least a little experience and understanding.

I have no issues with LGBT people and have many friends in that particular community. I have no problem with anyone with a disability (and I know many) no matter what it may be. On of my best friends suffers from cerebal palsy but he appreciates I treat him no differently than anyone else.

No matter if it is by accident or design you appear to bring up your disability as a way of getting preferential treatment this does no favours to anyone else with a disability who may actually be worse off than yourself.

I suggest you sit back, read and digest my comments before replying. No-one is trying to belittle you due to your disability.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Thats enough about LGBT and disabilities, neither has anything to do with this thread.

Move on.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

If you get a "free iPhone" with minimum term contract of 24 months, at month 25 and beyond if you keep paying up the same monthly price then there's one person to blame.

Every mobile contract I've ever had has been crystal clear to me.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Utter nonsense. So you told him what to do then, it's the same thing. Your support worker has nothing to do with this forum and should be telling you to ignore people not asking them to refrain from making comments when you keep talking about it. I don't care if it's unhelpful or not, what you have typed is one of the strangest things I've read on the internet.

---------- Post added at 17:16 ---------- Previous post was at 17:06 ----------

That depends, if VM had took £8pm for something the person didn't order or want then a full refund should be offered immediately after it was found out to be VMs fault, not sure why a 50% refund would be fair if the money wasn't theirs to take.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Hi Richard

Just came back from a couple of days away and found your thread.

Couple of points

The terms of compensation are shown here http://store.virginmedia.com/the-leg...uidelines.html Can you let us know if you were being offered compensation based on the criteria?

Moving on to your recent experience with VM, I assume you spoke with an offshore call handler?

Did you use the threat to leave as a mechanism to "up the offer"?

Why did you feel the need to "remind" the call handler of a previous incident? was this an attempt to intimidate the call handler?

Given your previous experiences with VM why not just call retentions and avoid the hassle of speaking to an off shore call handler.

The "news" item you refer is at least 6 months old and really does not add anything extra to your post.

Cheers

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

You have been told to cease talking about this and I suggest that you take heed.

---------- Post added at 17:10 ---------- Previous post was at 17:00 ----------

Hi Stuart,

Terms & conditions rarely relate to the real world ;) and if I find that any company is no longer meeting my needs or expectations, then I will sometimes remind them that other alternatives are available to me.

The call handler was repeating an incident that I had experienced by one of her colleagues in the recent past. This was especially disappointing as I'd been reassured that this incorrect behaviour would not happen again. In these circumstances, I felt it prudent to avail her of this information so that she could make an informed decision as to whether she was going to carry out my request or not. Fortunately, she changed her mind and took the correct action, so no formal complaint was actually made about her.

I quoted Mick's news item to demonstrate that what Mick had noted six months ago had shown no signs of improvement.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

I think you are missing my point - assuming the contract is crystal clear the supplying company should only take the amount of money it has said it would.

If it continues to take the original incorrect amount then it is clearly in the wrong as it is taking more than it said it would.

I will concede that it is prudent for the customer to check the amount taken has indeed reduced, but if they don't it doesn't make it ok (or legal) for the supplier to take more.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

This is an interesting scenario, especially if the customer is incapacitated in some way eg someone with dementia.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

no, I didn’t mix anything up.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Then i've become confused myself!

What was the point you wanted to make Dilli?

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

So you carry on talking about it, great. For your information I hadn't read that far down before the reply to you. Maybe stop telling people what to do, you don't own the forum.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Maybe this thread has served its purpose.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Neither do you.

Those who do already said move on.
If you wish to continue posting, I suggest you follow those instructions.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

You have missed my point or I didn't make it clear enough. The recent news articles are implying the networks are duping people who continue to pay up after the end of the minimum term.

Phones are supplied with airtime contracts with minimum terms. The exception being o2 refresh where it's clear the phone and airtime are seperate.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Richard,

Let's try this again.

Were you offered what was due under the Terms and Conditions?

The location of the call handler?

Why did you not approach Retentions to resolve the issue?

Now moving on to what you did say,

Terms & conditions rarely relate to the real world and if I find that any company is no longer meeting my needs or expectations, then I will sometimes remind them that other alternatives are available to me.

Why not just leave and find a better provider and avoid the stress? Or were you, as we say in Scotland, "chancing your arm"?

The call handler was repeating an incident that I had experienced by one of her colleagues in the recent past. This was especially disappointing as I'd been reassured that this incorrect behaviour would not happen again. In these circumstances, I felt it prudent to avail her of this information so that she could make an informed decision as to whether she was going to carry out my request or not. Fortunately, she changed her mind and took the correct action, so no formal complaint was actually made about her.


Thanks for clarifying the situation.

I quoted Mick's news item to demonstrate that what Mick had noted six months ago had shown no signs of improvement.


In your view perhaps, I have yet to experience any such issues.

Oh one additional question, why not contact the CEO team straight away when in your view an unacceptable offer was made initially?

Regards

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

From what she said, the answer was yes. However, as i'm currently housebound, the internet and TV are my main forms of entertainment and contact with the outside world. She abruptly said that VM don't give anything over and above a refund equal to the cost of the service lost, which I found unacceptable. When I asked for the matter to be escelated, she initially tried to discourage me and then outright refused.

I do believe that extra is due for any inconvenience or problems that outages cause eg if my electricity went down for a day, I wouldn't be happy to receive only an amount equal to one days standing charge with the promise that I wouldn't be charged for the usual consumption that I hadn't used for that day, that wouldn't be the point!

NTL would offer a less insulting amount and I'm sure that this helped with customer care and retention.

After I insisted that she do as I asked, I was put through to a department calling themselves 'retentions & complaints', maybe they've merged??

At this time, I am happy with VM and what they are offering me and currently have no plans to leave.

I'm glad that you've had no issues yourself, but clearly customer service has deteriorated and has not improved since Micks article was published. The price rise that others will be being subjected to may be the last straw for many.

As inflation creeps up again and wages stagnate, disposable income is falling, this is at a time when pay TV customers have never had as much choice to choose from. Some OTT services are incredibe value. VM really need to up their game if they wish to attract customers and retain their current subscriber base.

Unless it's something really serious, I believe in going through the correct channels to pursue complaints rather than straight to the top and/or pulling any strings.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Not sure what you're talking about. I've posted about 5 times in here and that's all.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Making progress now Richard

So you were offered the contractual amount but wanted more?

Again it's all down to T&C's, many utility suppliers will offer additional compensation however VM doesn't. I don't understand what point you are trying to make re electricity usage.

Here's my take on it:

I can see no reason why this issue should have been escalated. it would not be unreasonable to draw the conclusion from reading your post that perhaps your attitude towards VM is already more negative than positive and you had some preconceived ideas about entitlement. When the correct level of compensation was offered you challenged the call handler who stuck to policy which you decided did not apply to you. Perhaps there was then a bit of "Do you know who I am?" here and when you didn't get your way it all kicked off.

Whilst VM services may be your main forms of entertainment and contact with the outside world, there's still radio, mobile phones, DVD and video players which would have been more than adequate I'm sure. By having these alternatives I see no reason why you think you are entitled to more than you are contractually due.

Regards

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Perhaps he is talking about carrying on something that you have been asked to stop. I have deleted several posts just now of you asking irrelevant questions. Stop this.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Jesus I've stopped, not sure why all the attention is on me. He was the one doing silly smiles, I simply asked what was wrong.

Also I think you have wrong person, all my posts are still there?

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Lose the attitude, no need to 'Jesus' me.

You say you have stopped this, no you haven't, as you have yet again posted another question and no, not all your posts are here, some have been deleted because they had nothing to do with the thread.

Now, when a team member instructs you to stop, this is not a debate, no more off-topic posts or questioning team instructions publicly.

If you want further clarification on this, PM me, we are not carrying on this issue, here.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

You're making a lot of assumptions there, these are seldom correct & never helpful and, please, don't be so patronising.

As a domestic and business customer, I am entitled to decide what level of service that I want and what i'm prepared to pay for it. As a business in a commercial setting, VM are free to provide what I want at the prices i'm willing to pay (or not as the case may be). This is the very basis of the free market capitalist society in which we live.

Generally speaking, I like the V6, but want my satellite wiring to be replaced. Sky have offered to do it (along with many other sweeteners) completely free of charge if I use them instead.

I will be sticking with VM until the day comes that either of us doesn't want to do business with the other party and i'll get my satellite wiring replaced free of charge.

Nothing "kicked off ", I was simply unhappy that the call handler was not meeting my needs, lied to me and then refused to escelate the matter. If the new policy is to only offer the cost of the service lost to the penny, she wasn't wrong in stating this, but went on to exceed the scope of the authority bestowed upon her by her employer and was inappropriately rude. She seemed very reluctant to delegate the matter upwards as I also found the other month when I said that I didn't want to pay the forthcoming price rise. This is why I created this thread, as I was curious to know if VM staff are being discouraged or even penalised from letting the customer speak to a more senior member of staff. I've learnt some interesting information from some contributers with actual knowledge of how things work and am grateful to them for taking the time to post this information.

The next level up completely agreed with me, resolved matters to my satisfaction and said that they would put the mechanism in place to deal with the call handler.

Afterwards, I received a further apology in writing and a complimentary offer of all the Sky Movie channels in HD.

In essence, VM agreed that the matter was not dealt with appropriately and dealt with it accordingly. In return I will carry on using them and they'll get a lot of money/profit each month; it's simply good business practice if you think about it.

Far from putting prices up, I believe that this approach actually helps to keep prices down for everyone.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Given that you fail to answer questions that would allow other forum members to better understand your post, sometimes speculation is the only resort.

You have failed to explain why you wanted more compensation than you are contractually due, the closest you came to answering was "I was simply unhappy that the call handler was not meeting my needs". So go on define your needs and then perhaps we understand why the call handler failed meet them.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

I believe that your question has been essentially answered by past posts but, nevertheless, i'll succinctly answer your question.

I expected more than just the amount of the cost of the service lost because of the inconvenience and problems it caused. She refused and/or couldn't meet my expectation, lied about not being able to escelate the matter and initially refused to do so whilst being rude.

VM agreed that this was inappropriate and not acceptable. After listening to the call, a further gesture of goodwill was offered by way of an apology.

Hope that now clears things up for you.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Well it took a while to get there, thanks for clearing that point up. I will leave it for others to decide if demanding more than what was due under the T&C's was reasonable.

Moving on

I believe that your question has been essentially answered by past posts but, nevertheless, i'll succinctly answer your question. Is this not a rather patronising response? I do hope you didn't adopt that attitude when you were speaking with the call handler, and that reminds me, can you now answer my second question. Was your initial contact made with an onshore or offshore call centre?

Regards

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

I believe that you have been deliberately obtuse and are now being pedantic and vexatious.

I doubt that others care to the ridiculous extent that you do either. VM believed that I had a case and, in essence, that's all that matters.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Thank you, Stuart, for getting to the bottom of this. Clearly, the call centre person was refusing to escalate Richard's case because she had offered him the appropriate compensation for loss of service, as laid down by the terms and conditions of use.

Richard being Richard, he always wants more and he goes on and on and on until he gets what he wants. Then, in total exasperation with him, they give him more to get rid of him and then he claims VM 'agreed' with him. This encourages him to do the same again the next time he finds a reason to kick off.

I'm done with this thread now and I suggest we all walk away. A lot of us I think have been irritated by this and someone's going to say something inappropriate soon if it this discussion carries on.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Hi Old Boy

Thank you for your post, if I have in any way upset Richard I apologise, it was not my intention to do so.

I see MaggyJ has posted along the same lines and agree it's time to move on.

Regards

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

As previously explained, I accept that CS Agents may have now been given instructions to only offer a refund to the penny. What I (and VM) were not happy with was her refusal to escelate the issue, her lies and rudeness.

Your own rude remarks about your misinterpretation of the situation don't make any sense. For example, once I had accepted the resolution to my complaints, if your ascertation was correct, VM would not have subsequently wrote me an email of apology and offered further compensation by way of subscription free Sky Movies.

Despite this, I spend a lot of money with VM and it is highly likely that people like myself help to keep your domestic bills down. As suggested earlier in the thread by another member, maybe VM recognise this too and are keen to keep me using their products as opposed to a competitor and have marked my account accordingly, I really don't know.

I was upset by what I perceived you were doing but, by definition, my condition sometimes means I misunderstand things

Thank you for explaining that you did not intentionally upset me and for your apology, both are much appreciated.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

Neither of us set out deliberately to upset you, Richard, but this was a controversial issue and matters had to be put straight.

I hope there are no hard feelings and I am sure that all on this forum wish you well if you have to have another stay in hospital as you mentioned on here earlier.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

I find it strange that you think that your getting a reduction in price and possibly a refund keeps prices down for others.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

A fair question.

It's because I spend a huge amount every month with VM. By using such retention methods (the norm with many companies), this money stays within the VM eco system instead of going into the revenue of a competitor- keeping large spending customers is good for VM income streams and doubly good if this money can be kept out of the hands of a competitor.

These domestic & business income streams all go into the pot, increase investment and help to keep prices down for small and medium sized users.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

You are obviously not paying as much as some, who are not getting these freebies and reductions, so why do you think you are paying such a huge amount?

As you have recently been given free access to Movies you were obviously not even on the top package as many VM customers are.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

I'm combining my personal & business accounts.

Re: Are VM frontline staff now discouraged from escalating customer issues?
 

I asked our legal bods to take a look at this at the time in case I needed to take this further, which I won't need to do now that matters have been resolved to my satisfaction.

They've only just got back to me, so I thought I'd share this for the benefit of others.

From a legal point of view, the pro rata loss of service credit that the woman offered and tried to claim was a final decision was only a guideline.

She was doing her job correctly by following the normal policies and procedures of her employer. However, where she fell down was in failing to consider my request for a higher refund and in attempting to inhibit the complaints procedure by initially refusing my requests for the matter to be escelated.

The process will change once new Ofcom rules are in force regarding automatic compensation. These guidelines will be abolished and replaced by statutory (higher) amounts that should be paid automatically:

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/about-ofcom...paign=autocomp