Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Can they arrest the tax evaders and avoiders first before they come to me :mad:

---------- Post added at 06:30 ---------- Previous post was at 06:29 ----------

I meant offer better pay and conditions and deregulate unions (i.e. scrap anti-trade union laws)[COLOR="Silver"]

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

So it's ok for you to cost the tax payers, as well as businesses millions, due to inciting rioting, and other acts of violence is it???

I am a trade union member, but I wouldn't want it to go back to what it was like in the 70's when the unions had far too much power.

I have a friend who went to the USA a few years ago to set up a specialist haulage company. But due to the unions refusing to let people multi task. The company folded, and they all lost their jobs...good old unions eh?

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

All I have said is thar radical reform is needed by any means, how it can be done is up to whoever reads this article, I am not targeting small businesses, but the poltical and weathy elite and the governments they back.

What happened in the 70s was not the trade unions fault, they were the side effects of the problem, most trade union members want decent pay and conditions (some did want left wing poltical change), but it is clear to see what has happened due to weakened union power.

My point is that if the government is no longer willing to represent the working people of the UK (and only the business, poltical and rich elite), then we need organisations like trade unions to represent our interests as well

If I was running a union, yes I would except changes to the workplace try to help the businesses in times like these, but not at the long term expence of our members and not without their consent

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

And by any means you have made it quite clear what you mean....violence, rioting, terrorism, and murder!

I see your facebook page has also been shut down, probably due to your extremist posts.

Now stop tring to move all the topics towards your political agenda, and let us get back on topic.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

the main one been its anti growth.

---------- Post added at 09:59 ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 ----------

by increase the private sector pay rates?

adding a postcode lottery to job pay in the public sector is bad for growth but I do also agree with the point its bad as well for other reasons already stated such as.

attracting decent staff to poor areas, like good GPs and teachers.
people doing the same work but for different levels of pay based on where they live. I think its more likely to be based on the companys address tho, so it may be possible someone will live in an expensive area but travel to a poor located workplace. So it may force people to move to poorer areas.

So in affect it will make rundown areas even worse and good areas better widening poor/rich gap.

---------- Post added at 10:00 ---------- Previous post was at 09:59 ----------

I think the way they acting now they expecting to not be reelected so as such dont care about their public image and are just pushing through everything the tory donaters want (the rich want).


---------- Post added at 10:05 ---------- Previous post was at 10:01 ----------

people can be easily manipulated when the media backs government.

also proven with the voting referendum.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

And reduce competitiveness in those areas? That would lead to massive closures and job losses.

Why is it a postcode lottery? If there are variations in the private sector, why can't those variations be reflected in the public sector. Having higher effective rates of pay doesn't guarantee better GPs and teachers. Why should those in the more expensive areas lose out on the supposedly better staff? Why should someone in the PUBLIC SECTOR be subsided to live in a more expensive area and yet work in a cheaper area?

How could it make run-down areas worse? If more people with jobs move into those areas, wouldn't that reverse any decline?

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

The trouble is that they are unlikely to increase anybodys pay, and it is just a costcutting excercise.

In my profession, if I worked 20 miles down the road I would earn an extra £6000 London weighting. If I worked 10 miles down the road I would earn and extra £550 as fringe London weighting. If I worked in my old home town in West Yorkshire I would earn the same as I do now, but I would be better off due to the cost of living, by anything between £4000 and £6000. The area where I work is an extremely expensive part of the country, yet in real terms we are probably in the worst financial position....but do you think the wages would go up in my area to compensate?....I don't think so.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

the variations in the private sector however could also be accounted for different jobs for different companies tho.

with GPs, teachers etc. they working for the same employer doing the same work.

its nothing to do with subsidies but more to do with the private sector changing its priorities from salary levels to profit.

the only reasonings for this policy is probably company owners using their joke of a minister hotlines ringing up to complain their employees want pay rises (how dare they) and its harder to turn them down when the public sector pays better. Also the good old saving money as I suspect there will be a net saving from it.

Its funny how you consider it a subsidy, I wonder how much cash is going to the private sector from the NHS contracts and th high speed rail work.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

No they don't. They work for the local authority or the local Primary Care Trust.

---------- Post added at 13:57 ---------- Previous post was at 13:50 ----------

I think the idea is that some areas will get smaller increases, because they are effectively being overpaid at the moment. Areas like London and the South East will still get pay increases.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

But nobody in the public sector are getting increases, and haven't done for 3 years.

In real terms public sector employees are in general paid less than the private sector. So for example a teacher or doctor in Yorkshire would still be paid more in the private sector. And in London they would be paid far more in the private sector.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Doctors are not the biggest group of public sector employees. It is absurd to use them as a general example.:rolleyes:

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

I used doctors and teachers because their jobs are more or less the same in the private and public sectors. I could also add firefighters and nurses to the list if you want, with the same results. In fact the only direct private comparrison to public sector firefighters would be airport firefighters, who I believe on average earn roughly 25% more.

Many public sector jobs have now gone to private contractors, who make a profit, and then pay very low wages. But this now puts those workers in the private sector.

You have to remember that many statistics are manipulated to fit in with the governments agenda, so don't take them too seriously. An example is how they reduced the number of fire death statistics. Now someone who dies in a fire that was started through arson, is not listed as a fire death, but as a murder. And someone who gets drunk, then passes out leaving their chip pan on, is listed as alocohol related, and not a fire death. Then someone who has a fire, and calls the fire service, but manages to knock the fire down themselves. If there are no visible flames on arrival of the fire service (even if it is still smoldering), this isn't put down as a fire.

There may be exceptions, but in general for long term employment it is well known that public sector jobs pay less. Although during a recession, businesses whos profits are down, may pay lower wages. But this usually changes as the economy improves, and unemployment drops.

By the way, it is illegal to pay men and women different pay rates just based on sex.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

so if the vote goes one way, it's democracy in action - if it goes the other way, it's manipulation.....;)

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

also how are these wage comparisons working.

is it private sector doctor vs public sector doctor.

or is it private sector mass employed mcdonalds staff, some tesco shelf stackers vs private sector doctors, teachers etc?

---------- Post added at 15:33 ---------- Previous post was at 15:32 ----------

given recent voting history over the past few decades I would say its media manipulation whatever way it goes.

what answer was you expecting?

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Sort of yes!

Don't you remember that the Sun was a tory paper in the 80's, spouting tory propoganda. Then when the tories started to lose popularity, the Sun switched to Labour, spouting Labour propoganda.

Many peole will believe what they read in the papers.

All governments manipulate the press when it suits them. An example is in the fire service pay dispute in 2003. The government put a block on the press reporting anything that put firefighters in a good light. When you think that normally local papers will report on a bin fire. But during the dispute, a 2 year old boy and his mother were rescued from a house fire in Stevenage. They both only just survived by the skin of their teeth, but this didn't even get a mention in the local press.