Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Not only is Chuka Umunna apparently 'hostile' to Corbyn but he's not 'politically black' to add to his shortcomings...

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/polit...-a3210861.html

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a6950456.html
Corbyn overtakes Cameron - oh dear !

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Yes, spineless Europhile pays price for capitulation to Brussels elite.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

And 60 per cent are dissatisfied with chancellor George Osborne after his calamity of a budget.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/polit...-a3210916.html

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

I'll wager the figure would be a great deal higher if we'd just had one delivered by Corbyn's chief clown McDonnell.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Heh heh...

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Unlikely to happen as there will probably be a new Labour leader before 2020.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Quite possibly, but as Labour are now ahead in the polls, Jezza ain't doing that bad.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics...-election-lead

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

The Tories are too busy scuttling their own ship.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Well the last two weeks has been utterly disastrous for them as we all know.

---------- Post added at 07:15 ---------- Previous post was at 07:11 ----------

Probably more to do with the Tories being increasingly hock deep in their own homemade quagmire.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Corbyn's got another problem on his hands it seems:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36034657

I wonder if he'll find time to deal with this in between such pressing issues as deciding which texts and emails to read out during PMQ's.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Nice to see the 2nd most senior person in the Labour Party being such a strong believer in the democratic process.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/p...cle4735902.ece (behind paywall)

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

It's the same old stuff from militant people who certainly only believe in democracy when it suits them. When it doesn't they resort to the power of the mob and intimidation just as they did in the 1970's. They always have and always will.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Maybe the Tories should be worried about any bridges they pass under in case a paving slab is dropped on them.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

That is exactly how democracies inventors intended it. Not this wishy washy one vote every five years where five million votes are cast for one mp sham have today masquerading as democracy today.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Yes, that's the sort of democracy some of them quite like.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Oh dear:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36142529

Not sure she's really fit to be sitting on the:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...facebook-posts

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Oh dear another spot of bother:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...ed-well-labour

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

... and she's been suspended:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36148704

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Well I wondered how long it'd be before Red Ken appeared in the news in this context:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36160135

Seems like Labour has a 'serious anti-Semitism problem':

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36157027

I don't think Ken and Jerry think so...

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

The Osem press office is obviously pretty busy in these last couple of days.;):D

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Is it press or propaganda ;)

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Breaking news: Ken Livingstone is suspended from the Labour party.

No link yet.

Updated: Linky

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

They should have kicked him out of the party a long time ago in my opinion.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

If only that were true... ;)

As for Livingstone, well his whole career has been characterised by 'lows' such as this and you have wonder why anyone would vote for such a man, especially anyone who's old enough to remember the 1970's.

At a time when Labour ought to be running rings around the Tories, we have an opposition being 'run' by an inept, out of touch, idiot who couldn't control a kids tea party let alone a political one. Scratch the surface of Labour and you soon reveal quite a lot of nastiness not far beneath.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Now Corbyn is getting flak over his support for a charity which has released a film showing kids acting out knife attacks on Israeli soldiers.

Quite anti-Semetic (sic)!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ring-Jews.html

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Looks a bit like the sort of 'play' ISIS engage their children in.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

According to Corbyn there is no crisis in the Labour part but they'll have an inquiry into anti-Semitism anyway... :rolleyes:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36175660

Can anyone imagine this idiot actually running the country? :spin:

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Interesting read but I couldn't find the part about Corbyn saying there was no crisis in the Labour Party and they're just having the inquiry for the fun off it. Must have missed that bit :rolleyes:

Cheers

Grim

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Corbyn denies crisis...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36160135

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Thanks, I wouldn't have been so confused if the comments refered to the posted link.

Cheers

Grim

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Corbyn's denial of a crisis in his party has been widely reported across the media so anyone who's 'confused' about that might want to pay a bit more attention. :D

It's odd how the usual rose tinted suspects are absent from this thread. They must be chuffed at how well Corbyn's running things and making the Tories look like a bunch of out of touch racists. :rofl:

Anyway, just for anyone else who's 'confused' about what's going on within what's supposed to be Her Majesty's Official Opposition:

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

For anyone who's interested Livingstone will be on LBC radio very shortly at 10.00am. Apparently there's already been a media scrum outside the radio station.

Extreme bad taste aside, I find it astonishing that someone as experienced as him would make such an extraordinary error of judgement at a time when all the focus ought to be on their opponents ahead of the local government elections. Maybe Red Ken would be better renamed Blue Ken as he's doing a great job for the Tories right now.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Apparently Ken has found supporters.

These being Nick Griffin, George Galloway and David Icke.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Well supporters like that can only enhance his image... :D

Ken's defence now seems to be that Benjamin Natanyahu said words to the same effect. Last time I checked Red Ken isn't Jewish so, whether it's true or not, it's a bit like him claiming using the 'N' word when referring to black people is OK because Obama used the term isn't it? :shrug:

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

I'm no fan of Hitler or indeed Ken, but this would seem to indicate that what he said had some truth to it.

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/0...id-support-it/

Assuming it's accurate obviously, I do wish the sheeple of the UK would stop trying so hard to be professionally outraged at the slightest thing.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

It does seem certain countries can't be criticised without accusations of racism/antisemitism being made (crass though KLs comments were).

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

I'd also add that this is a problem entirely of Labour's own making in trying to get the Muslim bloc vote. I haven't yet met a single muslim man who hasn't yet started frothing at the mouth if you mention the word 'Jews'.


Oh well it takes the mind of the Conservative Euro civil war eh.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

:tu:

---------- Post added at 12:02 ---------- Previous post was at 12:02 ----------

You need to get out more...

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

I'm still puzzled as to what exactly Livingstone was trying to say when he started the whole thing off?

Was he saying that because some Jews agreed to be deported in the 30s meant that Israel should be "deported" to the US in 2015?

Either way, his handling of the whole situation has been a textbook case of how not to act the week before an election.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

I think Livingstone has done a really good job of moving the news away from Corbyn's charitable donations and visits to anti-semite terrorists.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

I seriously expect the Tories to offer him a peerage. They must have been praying for something like this to happen.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

If Labour think is bad, if they decide to start looking at local councillors, they will see the true scale of things.:D

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Maybe you should, I'm not saying anything I haven't experienced first hand.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

In other news:
Corbyn-Backed Charity Donates Funds to Palestinian ‘Festival of Hate’
Business as usual :D

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Actually, Ken said "Hitler's policy in 1932 was to move Jews to Israel" - in 1932, Hitler was against it; he changed his mind in 1937-39 (and afterwards, he really changed his mind).

From wiki

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

BBC TV news opens with Red Ken defending his crass remarks to a media scrum.


"Great work Ken! :tu:

Thanks again.

Dave."

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Seems certain areas of the Labour party are grasping at anything to try and get at Corbyn. The fact he suspended KL the same day isn't enough. The tv pictures of John Mann attacking KL seemed very orchestrated with the TV cameras conveniently there. They've never accepted the overwhelming result of the leadership election - however that's democracy, even if it means your own chances of power are less. One member, one vote, and that includes MPs.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Keeping them in camps became no longer an option with the war going badly in the East. He just didn't want them in Germany.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Erm, that was around 44-45...

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

You were saying? According to a survivor, Belsen was just a concentration camp until 1943.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

We were talking about sending Jews to Palestine between 1932 - 1939, not about the Final Solution...

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

You said "(and afterwards, he really changed his mind)". It wasn't so much a change of mind, but a change of circumstances.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Or a change of destination. I seem to remember something about Madagascar pre final solution

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

I have to admit, I've never heard the planned killing of 6 million people (along with 6 million gay people, priests, gypsies, people with mental or physical disabilities, communists, trade unionists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, anarchists, Poles and other Slavic peoples, and resistance fighters) described as 'a change of circumstances' before...:shocked:

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Plus 20 million Russians.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Apparently the exchange took place outside the Westminster Media/TV studio area (where the BBC, ITV and Sky have their studios), a place teeming with cameras and people who can use them. IIRC the BBC lady that filmed part of it (an ITV staffer caught the rest) was literally popping out for coffee when it happened.

EDIT: Here's Chris Ship (ITV deputy political editor) explaining what went on

https://www.facebook.com/chrisshipit...7582798851660/

SECOND EDIT: Apparently John Mann was in the building to speak to Sky News.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

There wasn't originally a "planned killing". That came later as a result of the "change of circumstances". It wasn't a planned killing just for the sake of it. After all they were kept alive, although not in good conditions. There were even a large number of survivors(over a million) and iirc the biggest group of survivors were the German Jews, who I would have thought would have been first on the list to be killed.

The 6 million refers just to Jews, the others amounted to 5 million and are largely forgotten unless they have a special interest grouping, eg gay, gypsies. A lot of the Poles and Slavs were killed there and then and not kept in camps. How many of those survived, I'm not sure.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

I must say, this made me chuckle:

http://news.sky.com/story/1688191/an...abour-campaign

(it's the last video clip right at the bottom of the article)

:D

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

There are strong rumours going about that, some Labour MPs, are going to oust Corbyn.

I think that Corbyn is too soft, with Cameron and should go.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Been sort of away for a bit so haven't seen too much of this thread when it comes to the anti-Semitism thing but it really is upsetting. I am not exactly surprised there are anti-semites or at least people who, in their ignorance, invoke anti-semitic tropes but what is disgraceful is the defence of it from so many people. I have seen far too many people defending Ken Livingstone in the last week to the point it's making me actually angry to an extent that doesn't really happen much.

The original Labour MP who retweeted the tweet I can forgive (although that isn't my place). She made what seemed a genuine apology (even more so when you read the passages Labour HQ edited out referencing anti-semitism) and somebody retweeting something without considering it isn't exactly unheard of. Whatever. But Ken Livingstone's comments where terrible and he keeps defending them and so do many in the Labour party.

I can't really articulate how angry this whole thing makes me. Expect to say that many of there people would, rightfully, never accept this kind of thing directed at Muslims or others but there is a massive blindspot to anti-semitism as if it doesn't exist. They do the same thing of pretending that it's actually only about 'zionism' but then use terms like 'Zionist media' as if the idea that Jewish people control the media (or other things) isn't one of the oldest and nastiest conspiracies in the book.

Livingstone should be kicked out. People who defend what he said should be kicked out. The party should make clear statements opposing this kind of thing without equivocation. No 'it's bad but' nonsense, clear condemnations.

/rant

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

What Livingstone and his ilk have done is make an objective debate of the rights & wrongs of Israel's policies far more difficult.

How can raising the subject of Hitler when discussing Jews not be offensive? Why else did he mention him except to offend ..

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

The thing is, this would not be as much of a story as it is if Ken Livingstone had managed to keep his great big trap shut for once.

If he's not thrown out of the party (again) then Labour is finished.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Red Ken is the embodiment of a loose cannon and if he'd been of the right his political career would have been brief.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

There seem to be two extremes to the Labour party. One that makes criticism of a group impossible by being overtly bigoted against them, causing guilt by association for want of a better phrase, and another that makes criticism of a group impossible by describing any criticism of that group as bigotry and acting as apologists for them - see Diane Abbot, et al, amongst others, for that side.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

That pretty much sums up the British Left.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

So is anyone going to sum up the Tory right? They aren't anything to be proud of either.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Indeed they are both as bad as each other in my book and only by parties being rooted in the centre ground of politics will parties ever be elected to government in my opinion..

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

I agree. However, mortifying as it is conservatives, small c, seem to own liberalism far more than than the fake progressives on the left do. The Conseratives in power seem to regard 1984 as a blue print on many levels, but genuine conservatives seem to have far more liberal attitudes towards many things than many on the left, even those perceived as 'mainstream'.

I'm pretty sure social democracy wasn't this way at one point. The red card in my pocket burns a hole more and more all the time.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

For me, it seems to be that politicians now want to be seen to be "doing things", and any attempt to reduce their powers for "doing things" is seen as something that must not be done.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Corbyn is a ****, as far as l a concerned. I find it a disgrace that he didn't even bother going to Sadiq Khan signing as London Mayor.

Corby wants to run the Labour Party his way, but he should have made a great effort to be there.

I believe that Khan, will be a great Labour Leader for the future, l trust him for what he will do for Londoners

The sooner Corbyn goes the better.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Nice to see Labour doing so very well in Scotland. They must be so pleased at how badly the Tories have done and it's not as if Scottish seats have traditionally been a dead cert. that they relied upon to prop them up. Nice one Jezza. :tu:

:rofl:

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Scotland used to be all LABOUR voters. But, the reason why Scotland is voting for that tasty woman - Nicola Sturgeon.

Is because that's how bad Labour have done. Voters just don't believe Labour anymore.

And even l am now starting to llok the other way. Even tonight l emailed Yvette Cooper. We need someone like Sadiq Khan in the hot seat. OVER 1 MILLION VOTES

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

As much as I dislike (politically) Corbyn it's not really his fault they've lost Scotland. What happened last week was only a continuation of what happened last year, it's hard to place a finger on exactly what happened but the SNP has successfully managed to tap into an anti-establishment feeling and directed that at Westminster. Not that Westminster has helped itself with a sometimes shocking degree of complacency. Meanwhile the Tories have managed to position themselves well against the SNP by backing the Union whilst Labour dither trying to out-flank the SNP on the left and trying to be ambiguous on independence.

As for Corbyn I am not sure if he is an agenda or not. He is either a honest politician in the wrong place or if he has a very clear plan to stuff the hierarchy of Labour with allies before stepping down having successfully taken control of the party on behalf of the SWP lot.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

If you look at, In the North of England and Scotland. It used to be Labour strongholds.

But, now we have UKIP and Lib Dems taking over. With some Conservatives coming in.

Labour need a leader, who will stand up for the Worker

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

:shocked:

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

I am saying Labour's problems in Scotland are deeper than the issue of the leadership.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

You're right they have pretty much never relied upon the Scottish vote, even to win elections let alone prop them up...

---------- Post added at 19:33 ---------- Previous post was at 19:31 ----------

I still trust Corbyn more than I do Khan, I am a bit disappointed with him though, had high hopes when Jezza got the job.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Corbyn is in complete denial over Scotland. Without the 40+ Scottish seats Labour has taken for granted for the last century there is no way they can form a working majority, and there are plenty of people in England who won't vote Labour if they believe the outcome will be a Labour government propped up by the SNP.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Taking into account the seats alone Labour has won successive majorities which would have remained safe even without Scotland although I agree that with the 'SNP-Labour' attack line and with upcoming boundary changes it will be harder.

I think there is a lot of complacency about Corbyn though. He is a poor politician and I don't like this ideas especially foreign policy. However he isn't far off from becoming PM, or at least one of his allies. It's not too hard to see him winning an election. Imagine a recession after years of 'austerity', an electorate told they have to cut to save the economy only for the economy to tank, a Tory party infighting over the EU and the general anti-establishment and anti-incumbent feeling we see across the Western world at the moment. All of that is a dangerous mix. Corbyn has a SWP-influenced foreign policy that blames the West for everything but foreign policy doesn't swing elections. What Corbyn does have is a perception that his is honest and not part of the establishment. That is a good place from which to benefit from a rebellion against the elites, he is also the only choice for those that'll want the Tories out no matter what.

I think the Tories are wrong by taking their focus off the opposition onto each other.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

I think your glasses are especially rose-tinted this morning.

To be doing as well as Michael Foot did at this stage in his leadership, Corbyn should have gained hundreds of council seats last week. Instead, in Corbyn's own words, they merely "hung on". That's what governments are meant to do mid term, not oppositions.

We had exactly the same nonsense throughout the last parliament over Ed Miliband, with people constantly claiming the electorate would come round, would warm to him, just in time for the 2015 election.

It didn't happen then, and it won't happen next time either. The man is totally unelectable, just as Michael Foot turned out to be in 1983 (and no, it wasn't the Falklands that won it for Thatcher, it was nationalisation, unilateral disarmament and a whole lot of other unpalatable things that lost it for Labour, despite three-million-plus unemployed, industrial unrest and a floundering economy).

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Not sure if they're rose-tinted as I don't want Corbyn to win.

My scenario is based on a shift of circumstances which isn't too outlandish. Corbyn wasn't expected to win the leadership and Donald Trump wasn't expected to win the nomination for the Republican nomination. Things we don't expect can come up and cause consequences we can't foresee.

And I think you're largely right but that it's dangerous to assume he can't win because your thoughts on this seem to be mirrored by the Conservative party and that complacency could cost them.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

This
Plus the really ****** stuff done by DWP & employment rights and with regard to disability, ATOS & the 'targets' that must be met at all cost - regardless of the claimant's condition.

If nothing else the Conservatives should be concerned, Dave's likely going to disappear into the sunset after the referendum regardless, leaving the Tories not only fighting like ferrets in a sack over Europe but also about a new Leader.

I'm not sure on Corby's views on a coalition, but that may end up a possibility perhaps.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Linky

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2016/05/14.jpg

No wonder traditional Labour supporters are looking elsewhere for a party to represent them.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Whilst not the biggest fan of Labour or Thornberry, I really wouldn't hold much credence with that site, as it believes

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Taking party politics out of it there are idiots and malcontents in the all the mainstream political parties and anybody who does not think that there ain't certainly has their rose tinted glasses on..

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Sounds like a spoof site made up to lure the simple minded .. no one in their right mind can seriously believe this stuff.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

But only once this century have Scottish seats played any role in the winning of an election iirc

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

4 times since 1945 (I cba looking any further back... ;))

Feb 74, Oct 74, 1964, and 1950.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Wouldn't 2005 count too?

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Or to look at it another way, once in '64


http://wingsoverscotland.com/why-lab...need-scotland/

---------- Post added at 17:02 ---------- Previous post was at 17:01 ----------


No

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Why not?

Labour won 356 seats, 56 of which were in Scotland. They would have been 24 seats short of a majority. Fair enough they would be the largest party but to govern they would need the votes of the SNP or Lib Dems.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Looks to me labour had a majority of 66 and without Scottish mps it would've been 43. Anyway the real point is labour have never relied on the Scottish vote to win elections

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

In Feb 74, Labour had 40 seats in Scotland, whilst the Conservatives had 21, which gives them 19 more seats than the Tories - in that General Electiom Labour had a majority of 4 over the Tories.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

You're working on the assumption Scotland has left the union I think but I am working off the assumption they're part of it but the votes have gone elsewhere.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

That the first election, who ever won that would've collapsed and needed the second anyway so it really isn't worth counting

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

No, a seat change has a double effect on the majority, because it is -1 to the government and at the same time +1 to the opposition. The net change in the difference between government and opposition seats is 2.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Simples. :tu:

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Pretty sure it counted at the time...;)

New Labour created unfair tax system.
 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...on-digital-age

So even McDonnell reckons it wasn't all Thatcher's fault.

That should shut a few of the usual suspects up... :D