All F1 2004 Discussions

[homealone]

The 2004 season starts this Sunday, there are new rules, new cars & new drivers.

So, has anyone any thoughts on how it might go? Another Schumacher title? Raikkonen to fulfil his potential?

I thought the 2003 season was much better than 2002 and hope this year will continue that trend - no 'launch control' & only being allowed one engine per race should make things interesting.........:)

[gazzae]

If you ask me another Schumacher title, but I have a feeling the Montoya could give him a good challenge.

[ic14]

If its yet another M Shumacher title i wont bother watching formula 1 ever again, its getting boring with the same person wining each year :zzz:

[homealone]

If you ask me another Schumacher title, but I have a feeling the Montoya could give him a good challenge.

I think Montoya will be out to win it too, the interesting thing is how his intended move to Ferrari, next season, will influence his 'relationship' with Schumacher on the track.

The other issue at the start of the season may be how the new Ferrari & new Williams compare - the changes to the new Ferrari are allegedly less radical than those to the new Williams, so reliability may be a factor?

[DrAwesome]

I'll be watching F1, qualifying runs from 02.30 on Saturday morning but if your still inspecting your eyelids for cracks at that time it's repeated at 13.30.


link to all the latest F1 News (http://www.itv-f1.com/)

[Nugget]

I think Montoya will be out to win it too, the interesting thing is how his intended move to Ferrari, next season, will influence his 'relationship' with Schumacher on the track.

The other issue at the start of the season may be how the new Ferrari & new Williams compare - the changes to the new Ferrari are allegedly less radical than those to the new Williams, so reliability may be a factor?

Errrrrrrrr - isn't Montoya going to McLaren? :pp Hang your head in shame, my little friend :waving:

[DrAwesome]

Errrrrrrrr - isn't Montoya going to McLaren? :pp Hang your head in shame, my little friend :waving:


JPM certainly has gone to McLaren (http://www.itv-f1.com/news/news_story/19907)

[homealone]

Errrrrrrrr - isn't Montoya going to McLaren? :pp Hang your head in shame, my little friend :waving:

:blush:well spotted that man - head hung as instructed tallboy:pp

@ Dr A - I'm not sure if I'm going to like them running both qualifying sessions on the Saturday, we'll see...........- think I'll be going for the re-run, though:)

[paulyoung666]

montoya is the one this season , mind you , keep an eye on alonso , i reckon we will see very good things from him this season :)

[homealone]

montoya is the one this season , mind you , keep an eye on alonso , i reckon we will see very good things from him this season :)

Renault have lost some of their advantage with the removal of launch control - but Alonso did have some cracking drives last season:)

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Raikkonen, seeing as he ran Schumie so close last season?

[Jerrek]

F1 used to be good until they brought in all the crap laws and regulations. imho

[Nor]

At least they've removed launch control this season. Now all we need is rid of traction control and the gear assistance. There are too many aids on cars these days and it means there aren't many errors which = hardly any overtaking. Remove the aids and hopefully we'll see racing like we used to, just abit faster.

[homealone]

F1 used to be good until they brought in all the crap laws and regulations. imho

I think taking away some of the driver aids is a good thing, I actually prefer watching CART or Indy (on street circuits, anyway) as they seem to be more about the drivers skill, than a 'battle of the gadgets'.:)

[spacedhopper]

F1 is ok, but for the most exciting racing you can't beat World Superbikes or MotoGP, just my 2 penneth!!

[paulyoung666]

I think taking away some of the driver aids is a good thing, I actually prefer watching CART or Indy (on street circuits, anyway) as they seem to be more about the drivers skill, than a 'battle of the gadgets'.:)



definitely go along with that :tu:

[DrAwesome]

The 2004 season starts this Sunday, there are new rules, new cars & new drivers.

Here is a quick guide to the new F1 season...

Race Weekends

Gone is private testing on Friday. Instead the bottom 6 teams will be allowed to run 3 cars in 2hr-long practice sessions.

Also out is the Friday qualifying session.

Replacing it is a 90-minute session split into two with just 2mins between each session. The 1st session follows the same format as the previous Friday qualifying: drivers will run in the finishing order of the last race (Suzuka 2003 for Melbourne 2004).

This session determines the running order of the 2nd session with the slowest driver going 1st.

With just 2mins separating each session those teams at the bottom, or any drivers who make a mess of the 1st session, will find themselves with just a few minutes to prepare for the season all-important session that determines Sundayââ‚Ã⠀šÃ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s grid positions.

Teams like Minardi will therefore find themselves having to re-fuel & decide on their race strategy within minutes while the top teams like Ferrari will have much longer to go through the options.

Just like last year, when the drivers have completed their second qualifying run their cars will be impounded in parc ferme until Sunday morning.

Calendar

The F1 calendar has been extended to 18 races (there were 16 in 2003).

Back is the driversââ‚à ‚¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢ favourite Spa after a year-off and joining the calendar are 2 new venues in Bahrain (4 April) & China (26 September).

Technical

The One Engine Rule

The biggest change to this yearâ₠¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s technical regulations is the introduction of longer-life engines.

Put simply, a driver must use the same engine from the start of Friday practice to the end of the race.

Should he need a change at any point during the weekend, he will be penalised. If the change is made before qualifying, he will be dropped 10 places down the grid, after qualifying & he will have to start from the very back.

The change effectively means the lifespan of an F1 engine has been doubled from around 250 miles to nearer 500 miles.

Most engine manufacturers have managed to incorporate the changes into their existing engine architecture but Renault have decided to axe their revolutionary wide-angle power unit in favour of a more conventional layout.

Needless to say, the new regs are bound to play into the hands of those teams with good reliability records †“ such as Ferrari who did not suffer a single engine failure in a race last year.

Aerodynamics

The changes made to aerodynamics for 2004 are generally designed to increase sponsor visibility rather than curb performance.

The minimum sizes for the engine cover & rear wing endplates have been increased, giving teams more space to plaster their backersââ‚à ‚¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢ logos across the cars.

One other change has been made to the aero regs - the number of rear wing elements that teams are allowed to run has been reduced from 3 to 2.

Electronics

Launch control has been banned, a move that is likely to cost Renault most dearly as their system was widely regarded as the best in the pitlane last year.

Automatic gearshifting has also been outlawed, meaning drivers must now change up and down manually.

PERSONNEL

Zsolt Baumgartner †“ Minardi

While not necessarily †œnewâà ƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ã‚ÂÂ� to the F1 world, this 22-year-old deserves a welcome. In 2003 Baumgartner drove two races for Jordan (Hungary & Italy) to replace the injured Ralph Firman. He becomes the first Hungarian to race in the F1 World Championship.

Gianmaria Bruni †“ Minardi

Another driver who is not quite new having driven for Minardi in last yearâ₠¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s private test session on Fridays. The Italian impressed talent-spotter team boss Paul Stoddart who quickly snapped up †œGimmiâ € � for a full-time drive this year.

Giorgio Pantano †“ Jordan

This 27-year-old Italian is said to be bringing £3milli on with him to Jordan, but heââ‚ ¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s not a bad driver either. He was the German Formula 3 Champion in 2000 & was runner-up in F3000 - F1ââ‚ ¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s feeder-series †“ in 2002. Up against team-mate Nick Heidfeld in winter testing he doesnââ‚ƚ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t seem to be a bad choice at all.

Christian Klien †“ Jaguar

Klien replaces Briton Justin Wilson at the Big Cat & the pressure will be on for him to produce the goods, or be chucked out like the previous incumbents. The 21-year-old Austrian brings $6million in sponsorship to the team, courtesy of energy drinks giant Red Bull. But heââ‚ ¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s also quick. In his first test for the team at Valencia last year he was just 0.1s shy of Mark Webberââ‚Ã⠀šÃ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s fastest lap.

Other Drivers (Musical Chairs)

Giancarlo Fisichella & Nick Heidfeld swapping seats apart, few drivers moved between teams during the winter break although Takuma Sato & Felipe Massa both find themselves back in race drives after spending 2003 testing.

Behind the scenes, however, there were a number of high-profile comings & goings.

Hardest hit were Renault, who lost technical director Mike Gascoyne to Toyota & aero boss John Iley to Ferrari. The latter replaces Nick Tombazis, who is moving to McLaren.

Renault promoted Bob Bell into Gascoyneââ‚à ƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s old role while they have lured Rob White from Cosworth to take charge of their Viry-Chatillon engine operation.

James Robinson, formerly of BAR, is Jordanââ‚Ã⠀šÃ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s new engineering director.

Goodbye to:

Heinz-Harald Frentzen has said goodbye to F1 to embark on a new career in the DTM while Jacques Villeneuve is taking a yearâ₠¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s sabbatical. Jos Verstappen & Justin Wilson also find themselves out in the cold, after losing out on drives at Jordan & Jaguar respectively.

On the technical side, Ferrari engineer Pino dâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢Agostino has quit to take up a new role at Fiat while BMW boss Gerhard Berger has also formally quit the sport. Jordan engineering boss Gary Anderson has gone into semi-retirement.

Toyota team boss Ove Andersson has stood down, & his duties will now be carried out by chairman Tsutomu Tomita.

[Nugget]

I read in the paper at the weekend that, because of the switch to only being allowed to use 1 engine from qualifying onwards, if someone crashes during qualifying they will have to have the engine transferred to the spare car - should be interesting if they hit a tyre barrier and end up with the engine on their lap :spin:

[homealone]

F1 is ok, but for the most exciting racing you can't beat World Superbikes or MotoGP, just my 2 penneth!!

Actually I thought Sundays World Superbike race in Valencia was a bit 'ordinary', (good for Toseland, though ) - but in general I agree with you. :)

[paulyoung666]

Here is a quick guide to the new F1 season..

snip





excellent :tu:


i assume the gearboxes are still paddle shift jobs , and not stick shift like they used to be :)

[gary_580]

IVe not watched in the last two years. Got fed up with the predicatability of it all. I signed up for NASN and am now an avid NASCAR fan, close racing 43 cars in a race and different winners every week, you cant beat it. Takes a while to understand the lingo and the tactics though but well worth it in the end.

[paulyoung666]

Actually I thought Sundays World Superbike race in Valencia was a bit 'ordinary', (good for Toseland, though ) - but in general I agree with you. :)




funny , i thought the same , maybe it was the rain that calmed it down a bit :shrug:


@ gary_580 , i dont mind nascar myself , i wouldnt pay for nasn to watch it though , there is a fair amount of it on motors tv on sky digi :)

[gary_580]

@ gary_580 , i dont mind nascar myself , i wouldnt pay for nasn to watch it though , there is a fair amount of it on motors tv on sky digi :)


NTL dont do Motors TV. I dont mind paying for it because the race is on live which is good sunday evening entertainment. Plus i watch a lot of hockey and baseball too. I think NASN is probably watched in our house for about 40-50 hours a week which is pretty good value entertainment for £9.99

[paulyoung666]

NTL dont do Motors TV. I dont mind paying for it because the race is on live which is good sunday evening entertainment. Plus i watch a lot of hockey and baseball too. I think NASN is probably watched in our house for about 40-50 hours a week which is pretty good value entertainment for £9.99




put that way then you are not wrong , i had a feeling about the ntl not having that channel thing :(

[homealone]

funny , i thought the same , maybe it was the rain that calmed it down a bit :shrug:


@ gary_580 , i dont mind nascar myself , i wouldnt pay for nasn to watch it though , there is a fair amount of it on motors tv on sky digi :)

yeah, the wind didn't help, either, very difficult conditions for the riders.

Nascar, hmmm, I just don't like watching racing on oval tracks, I can see the appeal to others, but I prefer say Laguna Seca and Nascar don't do that.

[gary_580]

yeah, the wind didn't help, either, very difficult conditions for the riders.

Nascar, hmmm, I just don't like watching racing on oval tracks, I can see the appeal to others, but I prefer say Laguna Seca and Nascar don't do that.


NASCAR only do 2 road circuits which is silly really as ive seen many driver interviews where they say the enjoy the chaleenge of road circuits. Trouble is road circuits arent as good for the spectators that are there. (or is it the rednecks that just dont understand turning right?)

[homealone]

NASCAR only do 2 road circuits which is silly really as ive seen many driver interviews where they say the enjoy the chaleenge of road circuits. Trouble is road circuits arent as good for the spectators that are there. (or is it the rednecks that just dont understand turning right?)

A hybrid course, like they did at Indianapolis for F1 would be ok.:)

[iadom]

One snippet from the new regulations that I was already aware of, should make interesting reading to those who denigrated the performance of automatic gearshift in the thread on the topic.

Automatic gearshifting has also been outlawed, meaning drivers must now change up and down manually.

Or, the cars that have fully automatic transmission have a speed/ acceleration advantage, therefore it has been removed.

[paulyoung666]

A hybrid course, like they did at Indianapolis for F1 would be ok.:)




was it just me , or did the tv coverage seem a lot better at indianapolis last year , compared to other circuits :shrug:

[homealone]

One snippet from the new regulations that I was already aware of, should make interesting reading to those who denigrated the performance of automatic gearshift in the thread on the topic.

Automatic gearshifting has also been outlawed, meaning drivers must now change up and down manually.

Or, the cars that have fully automatic transmission have a speed/ acceleration advantage, therefore it has been removed.

it's a good thing, I reckon, putting more onus on the drivers skill, not the software engineers.

Now if they would also ban carbon brakes & thus get the braking distance into the corners extended, we might see more competitive racing that way, too.:)

[iadom]

it's a good thing, I reckon, putting more onus on the drivers skill, not the software engineers.

Now if they would also ban carbon brakes & thus get the braking distance into the corners extended, we might see more competitive racing that way, too.:)And they should make them wear leather flying helmets and goggles.

[Graham]

IMO one area where they could make noticeable changes is with pit stops (and, no, *not* spinning the driver around three times!)

Firstly, because of the changes to refuelling, it's that which usually governs how long the pit stop is going to take, meaning that unless something goes wrong, the time taken to change the tyres is much less relevant.

Secondly stops can now have up to *eighteen* people working on or around the car which, I'm afraid to say, is an accident just waiting to happen. Some day someone is going to make a wrong move and there's going to be big trouble.

I think that F1 should look at the Indy Car stops where you can have a maximum of *five* people over the pit wall, this would not only make it safer, but would mean that tyre changes etc would become much more relevant again.

[paulyoung666]

IMO one area where they could make noticeable changes is with pit stops (and, no, *not* spinning the driver around three times!)

Firstly, because of the changes to refuelling, it's that which usually governs how long the pit stop is going to take, meaning that unless something goes wrong, the time taken to change the tyres is much less relevant.

Secondly stops can now have up to *eighteen* people working on or around the car which, I'm afraid to say, is an accident just waiting to happen. Some day someone is going to make a wrong move and there's going to be big trouble.

I think that F1 should look at the Indy Car stops where you can have a maximum of *five* people over the pit wall, this would not only make it safer, but would mean that tyre changes etc would become much more relevant again.




spot on imho :tu:

[homealone]

IMO one area where they could make noticeable changes is with pit stops (and, no, *not* spinning the driver around three times!)

Firstly, because of the changes to refuelling, it's that which usually governs how long the pit stop is going to take, meaning that unless something goes wrong, the time taken to change the tyres is much less relevant.

Secondly stops can now have up to *eighteen* people working on or around the car which, I'm afraid to say, is an accident just waiting to happen. Some day someone is going to make a wrong move and there's going to be big trouble.

I think that F1 should look at the Indy Car stops where you can have a maximum of *five* people over the pit wall, this would not only make it safer, but would mean that tyre changes etc would become much more relevant again.

I agree - 18 is too many, going down to 5 may be a bit too draconian, but I would support fewer than 18, e.g 2 per wheel, 2 refuelling, front, rear & 'lollipop' - 13.:)

[paulyoung666]

I agree - 18 is too many, going down to 5 may be a bit too draconian, but I would support fewer than 18, e.g 2 per wheel, 2 refuelling, front, rear & 'lollipop' - 13.:)



maybe , why not go to 5 nuts per wheel like nascar , that would spice it up :D :D :D :D

[gary_580]

maybe , why not go to 5 nuts per wheel like nascar , that would spice it up :D :D :D :D


And nascar limits the peopel that can go over the wall to service the car so that you can only change 2 tyres at a time

[timewarrior2001]

Since they started changing the rules F1 has become mundane and boring.
What happened to the heyday of F1 when Nigel Mansell won it then left to go win Indycar.

I dont know what to say is the reg the ruined it but the governing body has really screwed up.

As for the threats the FIA make to the UK, stuff em. If they threaten the future of British F1 then we should boot em out.

[gary_580]

Since they started changing the rules F1 has become mundane and boring.
What happened to the heyday of F1 when Nigel Mansell won it then left to go win Indycar.

I dont know what to say is the reg the ruined it but the governing body has really screwed up.

As for the threats the FIA make to the UK, stuff em. If they threaten the future of British F1 then we should boot em out.


IT was boring thne too, how many races did mansells team wi htat season. Just face it F1 is NOT a competative form of racing. Never will be untill the teams all use the same chasis or controlled engines. F1 is bascially a pay for a trophy championship

[iadom]

maybe , why not go to 5 nuts per wheel like nascar , that would spice it up :D :D :D :DWhy not have one proper race from start to finish without stops, and one time trial between the pit crews to see who is the fastest.:rolleyes: :)

[ian@huth]

One of the problems with F1 is that most tracks do not have many, if any, overtaking spots for todays cars. Maybe redesigning tracks and also making them wider would give more opportunity to overtake.

Another idea could be to have two shorter races at each venue. The first race having the grid decided as it is now and the second race having the grid in reverse order to the first.

[Graham]

I agree - 18 is too many, going down to 5 may be a bit too draconian, but I would support fewer than 18, e.g 2 per wheel, 2 refuelling, front, rear & 'lollipop' - 13.:)

I think that's still too many. Ok I agree with two on the fuel rig, because they're damned heavy, the lollipop guy is needed because he's the one that controls the whole stop, but I think one jack man and max four wheel changers would be sufficient for a total of eight.

I also think that the crew should not be allowed outside the garage until the car actually stops in the pit, rather than having them all waiting in the pit lane for a pretty long time until the driver pulls in.

[Graham]

One of the problems with F1 is that most tracks do not have many, if any, overtaking spots for todays cars. Maybe redesigning tracks and also making them wider would give more opportunity to overtake.

That's a good point, on some tracks there are only one or two places where a serious overtaking manoeuvre can be attempted and most of those involve trying to out-brake the other car.

Another idea could be to have two shorter races at each venue. The first race having the grid decided as it is now and the second race having the grid in reverse order to the first.

Isn't this the sort of thing that's done in Rally Cross events?

[homealone]

That's a good point, on some tracks there are only one or two places where a serious overtaking manoeuvre can be attempted and most of those involve trying to out-brake the other car.



Isn't this the sort of thing that's done in Rally Cross events?

The first point was why I suggested going back to steel brakes (as used in Indy cars), as the increased braking distance would give more opportunity for that kind of manoeuvre, the current brakes are so good that the cars are virtually at the corner before they need to apply them.

- and I really miss Rally Cross on the TV:)

[paulyoung666]

The first point was why I suggested going back to steel brakes (as used in Indy cars), as the increased braking distance would give more opportunity for that kind of manoeuvre, the current brakes are so good that the cars are virtually at the corner before they need to apply them.

- and I really miss Rally Cross on the TV:)




miss rally cross full stop , used to go to croft to watch it , wicked racing , good point about the steel brakes btw :)

[iadom]

Here we go again, Schumacher. M has bettered the Albert Park lap times on four separate occasions over two free practise sessions.:cool:
He said that the 2004 Ferrari is the best car they have produced.

[homealone]

Here we go again, Schumacher. M has bettered the Albert Park lap times on four separate occasions over two free practise sessions.:cool:
He said that the 2004 Ferrari is the best car they have produced.

and as Barrichello was second, it looks like Ferrari do have the initial advantage :(

[paulyoung666]

and as Barrichello was second, it looks like Ferrari do have the initial advantage :(




come on montoya :D :D :D :D :D :D



i must admit , it looks grim atm , who is going to stay up and watch qualies then :D :D :D :D

[paulyoung666]

button on the second row of the grid , i reckon it is going to be a good race tomorrow :)

[Nor]

fell asleep half way through the first session gah.

[paulyoung666]

fell asleep half way through the first session gah.



i was just glad i managed to get my video to record it through sky digi :D :D :D

[Graham]

fell asleep half way through the first session gah.

Well if you read this in the next 20 minutes the full Qualifying Sessions are being repeated on ITV 1 at 13:30!

[Nor]

Aha nice one thanks :) Will watch end of Man Utd and should be at where I left off last night with the racing.

[DrAwesome]

F1 to hold off on changes

F1's controversial new qualifying format will not be changed for at least the next two races.

The new system, in which drivers have 1 lap in each of 2 back-to-back sessions, has been heavily criticised.

A spokesman for F1's governing body, the FIA, said it was "too early" to make changes, & that it would be looked at after the first 3 races.

"Many people didn't warm to the changes in 2003 at first but the season turned out to be one of the best," he said.

The spokesman added that the change had been prompted by the F1 team owners.

"Just to be clear, this was something that the team principals discussed at length in their own meetings and came to us and said: 'This is what we think,'" he said.

Renault team boss Flavio Briatore is one of several influential F1 insiders who have criticised the new format.

"It's rubbish. It's too long for TV & makes no sense. It needs to be changed. It's stupid for us, stupid for the spectators," Briatore said.

The criticism has been heightened by the fact that Ferrari dominated the 1st race of the season in Australia on Sunday.

The one-lap format was introduced last year, when one session on Friday determined the order in which cars ran in the decisive Saturday session.

For this year, the Friday session has been moved so the 2 sessions run back-to-back.

Cars go out in the 1st session in the order in which they finished the previous race.

The order from the 1st session is then reversed to determine the slots for the final run.

The FIA spokesman said: "It would be inappropriate to act until we have seen how it works over a few races.

"Once we've looked at it & there is a consensus among the stakeholders in F1 & the fans, then we will consider the issue."

All important link :) (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/3546951.stm)

[paulyoung666]

interesting , looks as though they think they have made a complete **** up of it but want ppl's opinions of it , i must admit i thought it was good , even if the race was utter sh1te :( , time will tell i suppose :)

[DrAwesome]

F1 cars achieve mind boggling speeds & prodigious cornering forces by combining the latest technology in several different fields.

Click here to find out how it all works (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/car_guide/default.stm) (just click on each section of the cars design & the links blow it)

[DrAwesome]

Coulthard bares car's flaws

Coulthard & Raikkonen struggled with their cars in Australia McLaren need to improve their car in every area if they are to catch Ferrari, David Coulthard has admitted after the 1st race of the season.

"We have the infrastructure to get it right - getting it right in time is the issue," he told the Daily Telegraph.

"It's not rocket science. We need more power, more aero [performance] & more mechanical grip. The car is just not fast enough," Coulthard added.

The Scot was an uncompetitive 8th in the Australian Grand Prix on Sunday.

McLaren were off the pace all weekend in Melbourne, & their misery was compounded when Kimi Raikkonen became the race's 1st retirement, with engine failure after 9 laps.

McLaren chairman Ron Dennis has called his top personnel to a crisis meeting this week to try to resolve the problems with the MP4-19 car.

Coulthard said McLaren's difficulties in Australia were compounded because they and tyre supplier Michelin had chosen a tyre that was too hard for the unexpectedly cool conditions.

That played even further into the hands of Ferrari, who use the rival Bridgestone tyres, which were better suited to cooler weather.

The temperature dropped from 37C on the Wednesday before the race, when the tyres were selected, to 19C on race day.

"We got it wrong, simple as that," Coulthard said.

"Bridgestone turned up with a brilliant tyre here, helping to make an already strong package even better."

That, though, does not explain why McLaren lagged some way behind other top Michelin teams like Renault & Williams.

Dennis said: "I am absolutely sure we have the resource & expertise to resolve the issues. How fast, we will have to wait & see.

"We do know where the weaknesses are".

"The performance of all the Michelin runners will be better in Malaysia. But Ferrari are in a league of their own at the moment."

All important link :) (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/3547419.stm)

After watching Ferrari dominate the race in Australia does anyone think McLaren can catch Ferrari this year?

[paulyoung666]

mclaren catch ferrari , uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh no , i reckon williams or renault are the best bet , and i also think montoya is making a big mistake going there :(

[iadom]

Good programme for F1 geeks tonight on BBC4 at 8.30PM, repeated at 12.30PM.

It is about Alex Zinardi, don't think it is a repeat.

[paulyoung666]

and lo and behold itv are not screening the malaysian qualies live , we have got to wait until 13:30 for the highlights of it because it is only a 2 hour program with 2 1 hour sessions squeezed in , bluddddddddddy typical aint it , now i am going to have to avoid anysort of news until then so it dont get spoilt for me :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[homealone]

and lo and behold itv are not screening the malaysian qualies live , we have got to wait until 13:30 for the highlights of it because it is only a 2 hour program with 2 1 hour sessions squeezed in , bluddddddddddy typical aint it , now i am going to have to avoid anysort of news until then so it dont get spoilt for me :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

hey, you're right :(

why don't you just tell the kids to be quiet & stay in bed :D

I have that dilemma for the race, get up at half 6 or wait till 2 :dozey:

Seriously, I wonder what that does for the sponsors, can't see them being happy with less coverage?:erm:

[paulyoung666]

iirc , one of the things when itv took itover from the bbc was they were going to show the the lot live , didnt work out that way did it :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[DrAwesome]

ITV-F1.com have closed the F1 forum

26th February 2004
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The ITV-F1 website

I remember last year when ITV decided not to broadcast a live qualifying event many F1 fans were up in arms & expressed their disappointment on the ITV F1 forum & ofcourse the ITV F1 website couldnt handle the bad publicity as all the papers covered it as F1 fans were clearly upset.

anyway i have sent the ITV F1 Team an email which reads

Dear Team

Its a real shame that ITV can not show all live F1 qualifying events, F1 fans are forced to avoid the news and the papers till the repeat qualifying on Sat 13:30.

The BBC when they aired F1 covered all the live F1 qualifying why cant ITV?


One disappointed live qualifying F1 fan

I wonder if James Allen, Martin Brundle, Louise Goodman, Ted Kravitz, Jim Rosenthal, Tony Jardine or Mark Blundell. will read my email out live on the programme.. :)

If anyone wants to send any F1 questions the email address is

asktheteam@ITV-F1.com

From the ITV-f1.com website
During the ITV-F1 television programmes the team will answer some of your questions live on air. Please bear in mind this is not always possible due to scheduling pressures.

[paulyoung666]

well i have just sent one , so we will have to wait and see wont we :D :D :D :D

[homealone]

well i have just sent one , so we will have to wait and see wont we :D :D :D :D

me too:)

[iadom]

Well the much warmer conditions seem likely to make this race more competative, the Michelin shod cars are performing better, DC beat Schumies first QT.

[homealone]

Well the much warmer conditions seem likely to make this race more competative, the Michelin shod cars are performing better, DC beat Schumies first QT.

do you know if anyone has tried a Ferrari on Michelin, round that track - if tyres are the critical factor, it is time for all teams to run the same one:)

[iadom]

do you know if anyone has tried a Ferrari on Michelin, round that track - if tyres are the critical factor, it is time for all teams to run the same one:)To take that hypothosis to its logical conclusion, they should run identical cars, not as much fun for the advertising men, but a true test of who really is the best driver.

[homealone]

To take that hypothosis to its logical conclusion, they should run identical cars, not as much fun for the advertising men, but a true test of who really is the best driver.

it would be interesting - put shumie in a jaguar, renault or bar - lol:)

[Graham]

ITV-F1.com have closed the F1 forum

Anyone registered ITV-F1HELL.com yet...?! :D

[paulyoung666]

Anyone registered ITV-F1HELL.com yet...?! :D


i am tempted :fit: :fit: :fit: :fit: , i bet none of the letters get read out :mad:

[paulyoung666]

just got a feeling that schumacher was running a very light fuel load , nice to see webber in 2nd place though :tu:

[homealone]

just got a feeling that schumacher was running a very light fuel load , nice to see webber in 2nd place though :tu:

allegedly because they got scared by the Renault times in the first qualy session. Shame Alonso spun out on the crucial second sesh :(

really nice to see Jaguar doing well, great lap by Webber :tu:

- be interesting to see what Ferrari are doing with tactics, Barrichello looks like he is carrying more fuel?

Bridgestone showed they had a good 'one lap' tyre for the hot conditions, I wonder how durable it will be, over a longer distance. Shumacher seems to be set for a 3 stop & Barrichello a negotiable 2 or 3 - could be interesting:)

[keithwalton]

i've sent an e-mail too mostly the same as the others
imho this afternoon's coverage was rediculous, they spent a whole 5 minutes showing the first session, with barely more than 10 seconds on each car and not everyone was shown. Yet they wasted 20minutes sitting outside talking about stuff nobody cares about. More action less reaction please itv.
BBC were great at F1 and C4 were good at WRC can they have them back please as your programes are pathetic in comparison.

K

[Stuart]

i've sent an e-mail too mostly the same as the others
imho this afternoon's coverage was rediculous, they spent a whole 5 minutes showing the first session, with barely more than 10 seconds on each car and not everyone was shown. Yet they wasted 20minutes sitting outside talking about stuff nobody cares about. More action less reaction please itv.
BBC were great at F1 and C4 were good at WRC can they have them back please as your programes are pathetic in comparison.

KITV, AFAIK, do not provide the actual coverage of the Qualifying sessions or Race. They buy it in from a local TV station. If this is actually the case, they don't actually have much control over how long each car covered.

Regarding the race. It was not a suprise to see Ferrari doing well (they have done well so often I actually have started to get bored), but it was a very nice surprise to see Jaguar do well. I was impressed by Williams as well (together with McLaren, Williams are my personal favourite team).

[iadom]

BBC were great at F1 And the theme tune was much better too. My PC boots up to the piece from Fleetwood Mac used by the BBC for F1. I sit there imagining all the cogs and gears in my PC slowly coming to life.:cool: sad I know but so what.:pp

[Ricardo]

New engine rule.

I was wondering..........

Instead of sticking with the same engine all through the GP weekend as required by new rules, could it be advantageous for a team to go to the back of the grid and change their engine for a shorter lifespan but higher powered race only engine? Might this not be worth a 1 or 2 secs per lap advantage? :dozey:

[Stuart]

And the theme tune was much better too. My PC boots up to the piece from Fleetwood Mac used by the BBC for F1. I sit there imagining all the cogs and gears in my PC slowly coming to life.:cool: sad I know but so what.:pp
Aha.. "The Chain" by Fleetwood Mac..

*leaps around the room doing Air Guitar movements..

[homealone]

ITV, AFAIK, do not provide the actual coverage of the Qualifying sessions or Race. They buy it in from a local TV station. If this is actually the case, they don't actually have much control over how long each car covered.

I think Martin Brundle pimped Ernies tv company during the qualy highlights, didn't he ;)

Aha.. "The Chain" by Fleetwood Mac..

*leaps around the room doing Air Guitar movements..

:rofl: - with ya there, Stu :)

[paulyoung666]

well , i am certainly looking forward to the bahrain gp , should be interesting to see what will happen about the sand on the track :erm: , apparently the attempted glueing down of it has been less than succesful , should make it interesting to say the least :Yikes:

[iadom]

Shame, no half naked women and no champers shower at the end.;)

[paulyoung666]

Shame, no half naked women and no champers shower at the end.;)



i thought that was supposed to apply in malaysia as well :confused:

[iadom]

Interesting article here from the business pages of the Telegraph.

If this takes of it could settle a few arguments as to who really is the best driver.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2004/03/31/cnprix31.xml&menuId=242&sSheet=/money/2004/03/31/ixcity.html

[sherer]

only just found this htead so i thought i'd my 2 penneth about the problems on Formula 1 at the moment.

The main problem is the refueling and the pitstops. This is mainly down to Max Mosley who likes the Chess strategy nature of Formula 1. It was introduced because they couldn't get any action on the track to tried to create artificial action with the refueling. Now most of the race is decided by a spreadsheet before the race even starts !! How many times since then have you heard a driver say "I couldn't pass so decided to wait for the stops.". I've heard this phrase hundreds of times. But what if there were no stops if all the action took place out on the track they would be forced into have to try an overtaking move.

Problem 2 is all the gadgets etc on the cars and the rows and rows of computers monitoring them. With all this a driver doesn't even have to know if he has oversteer or understeer because it is all recorded for him. We need to remove all the sensors from the cars so that it is all down the the driver rather than computer data. That way the driver has to know what the car is doing and work this out with his engineers for the setup rather than using a computer simulation. if more emphasis is placed on the driver then a good driver even in a Minardi can make a difference at the moment it's all down to software and aerodynamics so even if Schumacher was in a Minardi it wouldn't matter much.

There's other things as well like going back to clicks and smaller wings but just these 2 things would make a huge difference. The problem if they done that then the technology would be less which would mean the car manufacturers would get less out of the sport and want to spend less money on it or pull out altogether. You just can't win sometimes!!

What i'd like to see is rather than F1 being changed make these changes to GP2 ( currently F3000). There is less media intensity here and can be changed and experimented with. if they could do all the things the fans and F1 purists want here and then show to the F1 teams \ manufacturers what it has done to the racing etc then they would be forced into implementing it.

Sherer

[iadom]

Half an hour to go, strong winds, light rain, overnight sandstorms, should make it interesting.:cool:

[paulyoung666]

Half an hour to go, strong winds, light rain, overnight sandstorms, should make it interesting.:cool:



funny i was thinking much the same , it should be interesting to say the least , especially with some potential front runners being at the back of the grid :Yikes:



edit :- raining again , this is gonna be well interesting i reckon :disturbd:

[ian@huth]

The live timing at www.formula1.com looks interesting

[paulyoung666]

ok schumacher won , but ......................



go button go button go button go button go button



nuff said :D :D :D :D :D :D

[TigaSefi]

funny i was thinking much the same , it should be interesting to say the least , especially with some potential front runners being at the back of the grid :Yikes:



edit :- raining again , this is gonna be well interesting i reckon :disturbd:

Interesting ? you're having a laugh, just give schumacher the title and be done with it. Saves tons of petrol in the long run.

[paulyoung666]

Interesting ? you're having a laugh, just give schumacher the title and be done with it. Saves tons of petrol in the long run.



but looking into the future .................... , button on the podium 2 times in a row , now surely that has to say something ;)

[iadom]

Anyone want to buy a Mercedes, needs slight attention ;) :D

[paulyoung666]

Anyone want to buy a Mercedes, needs slight attention ;) :D



one half of engine needs slight attention :D :D :D :D :D :D

[sherer]

apparently it wasn't an engine problem.. if you look into what the teams and manufatures say there hasn't been an engine blow up for any team in about 3 years it's always some other problem

[orangebird]

Am I the onyl one to find F1 so INCREDIBLY boring, now that Shuhi keeps winning?.... :zzz:

I can't stand him personally and think he's a terrible sportsman. BUT, he is the best driver in the world, and he's going to win the championship AGAIN...

Anyone else think he should retire after this season?

[Nemesis]

Am I the onyl one to find F1 so INCREDIBLY boring, now that Shuhi keeps winning?.... :zzz:

I can't stand him personally and think he's a terrible sportsman. BUT, he is the best driver in the world, and he's going to win the championship AGAIN...

Anyone else think he should retire after this season?
He should've stepped down and gone into another role within the sport

[Pierre]

He should've stepped down and gone into another role within the sport

Why? He is the worlds best driver in the worlds best car. There are still records to break. It is up to the rest of formula one to catch up.

I hope he carries on for a few more seasons yet.

[Nugget]

Am I the onyl one to find F1 so INCREDIBLY boring, now that Shuhi keeps winning?.... :zzz:

I can't stand him personally and think he's a terrible sportsman. BUT, he is the best driver in the world, and he's going to win the championship AGAIN...

Anyone else think he should retire after this season?

I don't think it's boring at all - okay, so Schumacher is miles ahead at the moment, but it's up to the other teams to catch up.

Yesterdays race was probably one of the best I've seen for a while - there were plenty of scraps thorughout the race (well done Button and Sato), and there were plenty of reasons why Ferrari are so far aheas - McLaren just don't have reliability at all and Montoya (it has to be said) was really unlucky.

[Stuart]

Am I the onyl one to find F1 so INCREDIBLY boring, now that Shuhi keeps winning?.... :zzz:

I can't stand him personally and think he's a terrible sportsman. BUT, he is the best driver in the world, and he's going to win the championship AGAIN...

Anyone else think he should retire after this season?


While I can see he is the best driver, having one person win all the time does make the races boring. Either he needs to step down, or one of the other teams needs to start winning. I think, if his luck improves a bit, Montoya has a good chance of winning a few races.

I have heard that F1 is losing viewers by the million because one person is winning the whole time.

[DrAwesome]

Ferrari Fined in Bahrain (http://www.itv-f1.com/news/news_story/20483)

[Edit]-DrAwesome-Post edited.

Ralf warned over Sato clash (http://www.itv-f1.com/news/news_story/20473)

[Edit]-DrAwesome-Post edited.

Despondent Trulli wanted more (http://www.itv-f1.com/news/news_story/20461)

[Edit]-DrAwesome-Post edited.

[gary_580]

ohhh was there another F1 procession yesterday?

check out the nascar site and see how close the finish was AGAIN and after 500 miles

http://www.nascar.com/2004/news/headlines/preview/04/04/esadler_wins.ap/index.html

[orangebird]

<snip>

I have heard that F1 is losing viewers by the million because one person is winning the whole time.

I'm one of them... I used to get up to watch the qualifying and race, regardless of time or country...now I'd rather go to the pub instead... :(

[Julian]

I'm one of them... I used to get up to watch the qualifying and race, regardless of time or country...now I'd rather go to the pub instead... :(

I've also given up watching it. :(

I find the comments regarding Michael Schumacher being the best driver interesting... How is it possible to judge who is the best driver when they drive different cars? :shrug:

Surely whoever is driving the fastest car will win? :)

[gazzae]

ohhh was there another F1 procession yesterday?

check out the nascar site and see how close the finish was AGAIN and after 500 miles

http://www.nascar.com/2004/news/headlines/preview/04/04/esadler_wins.ap/index.html


Its only so close because of the re-starts that NASCAR have, for example in that race you mentioned, the last restart took place on lap 302 of 334!

If F1 brought the pace car out all the time to bunch the cars up it would be a lot closer too.

[ian@huth]

I would like to see F1 covered by a channel that covered every minute of every warm up session, qualifying session and race with no adverts during the race. Ideally with a Sky Sports type coverage with multiple streams available so you could watch your selection from the various struggles going on through the field.

What is wrong with people who want the best driver in the best car to step down. If it was a British driver in the same position would they still feel the same? Should we get Manchester United and Arsenal to stop playing football and take up origami tournaments in order to make the Premiership more competitive, not forgetting Celtic and Rangers who could join them and give other Scottish teams achance.

I was quite impressed with the live timing screens on www.formula1.com during the race which gave sector by sector and lap times for all the cars.

[orangebird]

What is wrong with people who want the best driver in the best car to step down. If it was a British driver in the same position would they still feel the same?

Yes, I would. :)

Should we get Manchester United and Arsenal to stop playing football and take up origami tournaments in order to make the Premiership more competitive,

No, because it's never a forgone conclusion in the Premier League who's going to win until the last few fixtures.... This season has been an excellent example of that.

not forgetting Celtic and Rangers who could join them and give other Scottish teams achance.


That is one I would happily forget, as it always is a forgone conclusion. I think both those teams should join the premiership.... that would make it interesting...

[MrSums]

one half of engine needs slight attention :D :D :D :D :D :D

Nnnnnoooooooo - you just weren't listening to Norbert, were you? It was the gearbox, hydraulics, oil, or something Mika had for lunch. Nothing to do with the engine whatsoever, nothing, honestly ......

[keithwalton]

I would like to see F1 covered by a channel that covered every minute of every warm up session, qualifying session and race with no adverts during the race. Ideally with a Sky Sports type coverage with multiple streams available so you could watch your selection from the various struggles going on through the field.

What is wrong with people who want the best driver in the best car to step down. If it was a British driver in the same position would they still feel the same? Should we get Manchester United and Arsenal to stop playing football and take up origami tournaments in order to make the Premiership more competitive, not forgetting Celtic and Rangers who could join them and give other Scottish teams achance.

I was quite impressed with the live timing screens on www.formula1.com during the race which gave sector by sector and lap times for all the cars.
move to germany, they have coverage there, though i think its ppv. What we have is a lame excuse for tv which doesnt help viewing problems with muppets such as james allen. Check out the latest sniff petrol for a laugh about him
On a side note the live timing screen is quite good, its been around for a while now (over a year) though it crashed round about lap40 and was abit messed up for the next 5 laps, just when we wanted it to see how button was doing !

[Stuart]

I've also given up watching it. :(

I find the comments regarding Michael Schumacher being the best driver interesting... How is it possible to judge who is the best driver when they drive different cars? :shrug:

Surely whoever is driving the fastest car will win? :)


IIRC, he has consistantly won (or done well) whatever car he has driven. Even if that car is considered inferior to one of the competitors.

[gary_580]

Its only so close because of the re-starts that NASCAR have, for example in that race you mentioned, the last restart took place on lap 302 of 334!

If F1 brought the pace car out all the time to bunch the cars up it would be a lot closer too.

34 laps was about 50miles i guess the Ferraris could have had at least half a lap lead in that time. Funnily enough there were peirods in that race of 120+ laps without caution and still the gap between 1st and 5th was only a couple of seconds.

[gazzae]

Funnily enough there were peirods in that race of 120+ laps without caution and still the gap between 1st and 5th was only a couple of seconds.

Then why do they need to bring the pace car out to carry out restarts?

[Graham]

ohhh was there another F1 procession yesterday?

Better than high speed driving around a roundabout...!

check out the nascar site and see how close the finish was AGAIN and after 500 miles

Quote: "Sadler averaged 138.845 mph in the race slowed by seven caution periods that took 45 laps."

So you have a "race" where almost a *third* of it is spend crawling around under caution flags. Of course that does give them plenty of time to put adverts into the programme, but it would be cynical to suggest that there is a connection. I mean imagine interrupting a football game for commercials...

... oh, hang on, they *do* that in US football...!!

And, if you missed the Bahrain Grand Prix, you actually missed some incredibly exciting driving.

I think the Bahrain course is one of the best ones ever, there are at least three good passing places, a couple of long straights that allow good drivers in under-powered cars to slipstream their faster competitors and gain an advantage and some challenging and well designed corners to test the drivers' skills and abilities.

I hope this course is used for many years to come.

[paulyoung666]

Better than high speed driving around a roundabout...!



Quote: "Sadler averaged 138.845 mph in the race slowed by seven caution periods that took 45 laps."

So you have a "race" where almost a *third* of it is spend crawling around under caution flags. Of course that does give them plenty of time to put adverts into the programme, but it would be cynical to suggest that there is a connection. I mean imagine interrupting a football game for commercials...

... oh, hang on, they *do* that in US football...!!

And, if you missed the Bahrain Grand Prix, you actually missed some incredibly exciting driving.

I think the Bahrain course is one of the best ones ever, there are at least three good passing places, a couple of long straights that allow good drivers in under-powered cars to slipstream their faster competitors and gain an advantage and some challenging and well designed corners to test the drivers' skills and abilities.

I hope this course is used for many years to come.




yes i enjoyed it as well :tu:

[DrAwesome]

link (http://www.itv-f1.com/news/news_story/20587)

[DrAwesome]

link (http://www.itv-f1.com/news/news_story/20583)

[ian@huth]

Montoya has just put in a fantastic lap in Saturday pre qualifying, over half a second faster than Ralf with Michael third and Jenson fourth.

EDIT. Pre qualifying has just finished with Coulthard nipping in front of Jenson but Raikkonen is over half a second slower than David.

[paulyoung666]

j button :clap: :nworthy: :clap: :nworthy: :clap: :nworthy: :clap: , nuff said :tu:

[iadom]

Major rule changes are agreed, long overdue IMHO.

article (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2004/05/05/smgars05.xml&sSheet=/sport/2004/05/05/ixsport.html)

[homealone]

Major rule changes are agreed, long overdue IMHO.

article (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2004/05/05/smgars05.xml&sSheet=/sport/2004/05/05/ixsport.html)

agreed, especially the electronic driver aids & all on the same tyres.:)

[sherer]

i like the new changes as well but can't understand why refueling will remain.. they wantto get back driver skill and make sure there is overtaking on the track so why bring in a false and dangerous element like refuling.. How many times has a driver said "i couldn't pass so waited for the stops" what if there were no stops.. i don't want to see the team who did a better calculation on a spreadsheet winning a race but the driver who raced the best on the day.. if there was no refueling as well then the single tyre supplier could then produce a hard tyre that would last a whole race.. this would slow the cars down and if it was really hard then sliding the car wouldn't affect the cars as much as it does now..

[paulyoung666]

i like the new changes as well but can't understand why refueling will remain.. they wantto get back driver skill and make sure there is overtaking on the track so why bring in a false and dangerous element like refuling.. How many times has a driver said "i couldn't pass so waited for the stops" what if there were no stops.. i don't want to see the team who did a better calculation on a spreadsheet winning a race but the driver who raced the best on the day.. if there was no refueling as well then the single tyre supplier could then produce a hard tyre that would last a whole race.. this would slow the cars down and if it was really hard then sliding the car wouldn't affect the cars as much as it does now..


valid point i reckon :tu: , i still fear though , it is still going to be the richer teams that can afford more in r&d that will win , maybe if there was a cap on the amount of money that teams could spend then the opportunity for the smaller teams would be greater , or is that sanitising it too far :confused:

[sherer]

yes i think you could be right about that.. any change always plays into the bigger teams hands.. If this is going to happen in 06 then Williams, McLaren and Ferrari will be starting to build a 2.4 Litre V6 already and all the other stuff that's going to come along.. Minardi and Jordan can't start doing this until much nearer the time and won't be as ready.. It's a good start though just wish Mosley would get rid of his fixaction with this chess match like strategy the teams do with refueling..

Would like to see the cars mad wider again with bigger tyres but keep the wings the same size they are now.. that way they can't complain about having less advertising space and it will give proportionally less downforce than before..

[paulyoung666]

sato (http://www.formula1.com/race/news/1541/718.html) , quickest , i reckon this is going to be well interesting :tu:

[iadom]

If this keeps up, watching paint dry could soon be more preferable.

The new rules changes could be to little to late, if they wait another 2 years to implement them.

[paulyoung666]

i was expecting a good race , how wrong i was :(

[homealone]

I suppose you can't take away from Ferrari's achievement in producing the best combination of car/driver/strategy. But it is a shame the other teams don't seem to be able to play 'catch up'.

Todays race - Trulli gets a brilliant start & everyone speculates Ferrari took fuel out to guarantee pole - which turns out to be not the case (Tony Jardine then tells us Shell have developed a new fuel which weighs less), Trulli stops first, Shumacher puts in a couple of stunning laps on a clear track and emerges from his stop in the lead - race over!

Minor interest in whether Alonso could get a podium, how many places Button could make up, why Montoya's brakes were so bad? - but the race proper was over by about lap 12.

They really need to level the playing field with these new regulations - I don't agree with the engine change proposal, but, I agreed with Martin Brundle that work should be done to reduce the 'dirty air' from the aerodynamics that makes overtaking so difficult. I've said it before, but I would favour scrapping the carbon brakes in favour of steel ones, like the Champ cars, & get braking distances increased & more chance of overtaking into the corners. :shrug:

[Matth]

I would guess that even if they change the rules, the greater R&D budget of the top teams will help them to adapt better than the minnows and middle rankers.

There is one, and ONLY ONE answer, if the want to make a worthwhile race of it - success ballast.

Another idea: FIXED BUDGETS - and if the big teams quote unrealistically low prices for in-house parts, then the should be required to sell them at that price, or subsidise alternatives to the the other teams.

[homealone]

I would guess that even if they change the rules, the greater R&D budget of the top teams will help them to adapt better than the minnows and middle rankers.

There is one, and ONLY ONE answer, if the want to make a worthwhile race of it - success ballast.

Another idea: FIXED BUDGETS - and if the big teams quote unrealistically low prices for in-house parts, then the should be required to sell them at that price, or subsidise alternatives to the the other teams.

the idea of success ballast seems to work in the Touring Cars, so that could be a good idea - and one that could be implimented fairly quickly, I would have thought :)

- I'm not sure about fixed budgets - maybe for things like the ECU & tyres, but I wouldn't like to see all the teams 'dumbed down' to the level of, say, Minardi, for engines & gearboxes, for example?

[paulyoung666]

I would guess that even if they change the rules, the greater R&D budget of the top teams will help them to adapt better than the minnows and middle rankers.

There is one, and ONLY ONE answer, if the want to make a worthwhile race of it - success ballast.

Another idea: FIXED BUDGETS - and if the big teams quote unrealistically low prices for in-house parts, then the should be required to sell them at that price, or subsidise alternatives to the the other teams.


which ties in nicely with my post #118 , @ homealone , minardi use ferrari engines , not sure about the box though :confused:

[iadom]

One stat from the first five races of this seasons FI. Of the 301 laps raced so far, M Schumacher has been in the lead in all but 18 of them.:( Give him the trophy now and save all that petrol ( lighter or not ).

[paulyoung666]

One stat from the first five races of this seasons FI. Of the 301 laps raced so far, M Schumacher has been in the lead in all but 18 of them.:( Give him the trophy now and save all that petrol ( lighter or not ).


and the planet as well , i dont reckon you are far wrong there , sad to say , it is getting very tedious :(

[paulyoung666]

trulli on pole and button second , good god i hope it is going to turn into a good race :tu:

[homealone]

trulli on pole and button second , good god i hope it is going to turn into a good race :tu:

it was a good qualifying session, Trulli's lap was stunning & Jensen did well, too. It remains to be seen how the fuel/tyres strategy plays out in the race.

I see Renaults advantage at the start as a potential problem for Button, but hope he doesn't drop any lower than 3rd. After that it could come down to how far Shumacher can go before his first pit stop. With the new pit layout, if he can stay out even a couple of laps longer than Trulli/Alonso/Button, he could leapfrog them - I hope not, though.

[paulyoung666]

i reckon renault 1-2 off the line , button 3rd , watch out for a first corner smash , i reckon it is a distinct possibility :disturbd:

[homealone]

i reckon renault 1-2 off the line , button 3rd , watch out for a first corner smash , i reckon it is a distinct possibility :disturbd:

trouble is, if there is - & agree it is well possible - it is likely to be Button & Shumacher who collide :erm:

[paulyoung666]

possible wet race (http://www.formula1.com/race/news/1615/719.html) , that will make it fun :disturbd:

[homealone]

possible wet race (http://www.formula1.com/race/news/1615/719.html) , that will make it fun :disturbd:

dry atm - but like you say, if it does rain It will shuffle the pack big time;)

[paulyoung666]

dry atm - but like you say, if it does rain It will shuffle the pack big time;)


please let it be a good interesting race , pretty please :D :D :D

[homealone]

please let it be a good interesting race , pretty please :D :D :D

I second that - the start & the first stint will be crucial. :)

[paulyoung666]

just watched trulli's pole lap again , that chicane after the tunnel is awesome :tu: :D

[homealone]

bum - restart :(

it's going to be a long afternoon ;)

[paulyoung666]

bludddddy hell , surely that should be a red flag :disturbd: :disturbd: :disturbd:

[Dave Stones]

hurray, it got exciting for once...

[homealone]

bludddddy hell , surely that should be a red flag :disturbd: :disturbd: :disturbd:

I'm glad they stayed with the safety car - way to lunch an engine eh :disturbd: Shame about Coulthard :(

[Alanmelon]

Coulthard, interfered with from behind Courtesy of Martin Brundle
:Yikes: Are they allowed to do that? :D

[homealone]

Courtesy of Martin Brundle
:Yikes: Are they allowed to do that? :D

lol :D

- what was Alonso thinking of :eek: - it should promote Button to 3rd when the pit stops shake down, though :)

yay - Shumacher out !!!!!!

[Alanmelon]

Schumacher out now too! Woohoo! (He's throwing the dummy out of the pram now)

[paulyoung666]

20 laps to go , button closing , sodding adverts :mad: :mad: :mad:

gonna be a close finish i reckon , go button go button go button :D :D :D :D :D

[homealone]

20 laps to go , button closing , sodding adverts :mad: :mad: :mad:

gonna be a close finish i reckon , go button go button go button :D :D :D :D :D

second by 4 tenths - good race, though, that was more like it :)

[paulyoung666]

second by 4 tenths - good race, though, that was more like it :)



brilliant , really enjoyed , i reckon even if m s had stayed in it he wouldnt have been on the podium , long may it continue :tu: :tu: :tu:

[Chris W]

brilliant , really enjoyed , i reckon even if m s had stayed in it he wouldnt have been on the podium , long may it continue :tu: :tu: :tu:

i'll second that! first race this season that i haven't just sat there and thought hmm... i wonder how much schumacher will win by!

[abailey152]

brilliant , really enjoyed , i reckon even if m s had stayed in it he wouldnt have been on the podium , long may it continue :tu: :tu: :tu:
Yep, Button made it a really good finish! :tu:

[Graham]

Well, having watched the highlights, it looks like people's prayers for an interesting race were granted!!

How the *hell* Sato got away with that start I don't know, *surely* it was a jump, there's just no way he could have got so much of an advantage over everyone else, yet he wasn't penalised. I think DC was a bit unfair on Sato and BAR saying that they should have pulled his car because McLaren pulled Kimi, obviously they were trying to fix the problem, but without knowing the details you can't really say things like that.

As for the Michael Schumacher incident, I think he, not Montoya, made a mistake, he braked sharply in the tunnel and then moved across and left Montoya with nowhere to go and it's not the sort of thing you'd expect to happen at that point.

Even so, MS is still well out in front and I don't think things are really going to change much in the next few races.

[andygrif]

It was amazing wasn't it? I love Monaco anyway, as it's far more real that the tracks - and the on-board cams give a real perspective of the speed these guys drive at.

As great a driver as Schumacher F1 has become (for me) tedious with him driving in it. Yesterday offered a real 'edge of seat' race like the good old days and I thoroughly enjoyed it. It's sad that no-one can come close to the skill of Schumacher - but as long as they don't the sport is worse off with him in it.

[Alanmelon]

Thats right - it's a bit of a shame that there's little competition for the top spot these days.

Perhaps they should give Schumacher his own division, and let the others get on with it :pp

However, it's not just down to driver skill. Time after time we see brilliantly intuitive tactics by the Ferrari team. They rarely get it wrong. Not to mention the car, which may not be as good as some say (see Barrichello ;) ) but it's certainly in the top two or three and incredibly reliable.

[paulyoung666]

It was amazing wasn't it? I love Monaco anyway, as it's far more real that the tracks - and the on-board cams give a real perspective of the speed these guys drive at.

As great a driver as Schumacher F1 has become (for me) tedious with him driving in it. Yesterday offered a real 'edge of seat' race like the good old days and I thoroughly enjoyed it. It's sad that no-one can come close to the skill of Schumacher - but as long as they don't the sport is worse off with him in it.


some of the onboard camera shots were brilliant , i hope this is the start of the rest of the season :tu:

[sherer]

it was an excting race and what everyone really wanted to see but if you analyse the race in greater detail we never actually saw any overtaking.. it was all people crashing and retirements that made for an exciting race which isn't actually what we want to see.. even if the race had another 10 laps and button had caught trulli at .1-.3 tenths a lap faster he never stood a chance of overtaking trulli..

i think it was Shuey's fault in the tunnel.. it was a stupid place to try and warm up your brakes and tyres with no visability and then he didn't give Montoya any room either..compounding his own mistake.. i wonder if the FIA will take any action over Shuey squeezing his rival under the safety car? Think it was another case of him loosing it under pressure.. Ferrari had already made a mistake by not pitting when the safety car came out and would have lost the race anyway..

[Graham]

Ferrari had already made a mistake by not pitting when the safety car came out and would have lost the race anyway..

The problem for Ferrari was that when the Safety Car was out, Schumacher wasn't anywhere near the "window" for a pitstop. Yes, he could have come in, but they wouldn't have been able to fuel him to the end of the race meaning that he'd still have to come in later and thus get no advantage from it.

[ian@huth]

The problem for Ferrari was that when the Safety Car was out, Schumacher wasn't anywhere near the "window" for a pitstop. Yes, he could have come in, but they wouldn't have been able to fuel him to the end of the race meaning that he'd still have to come in later and thus get no advantage from it.

I don't understand how people are saying that he was not in the window for a stop. All the other cars that did stop were fuelled up to the end of the race as he would have been if he had come in.

[sherer]

i think Ferrari should have just filled him to the end whether he was due a stop or not.. I understand people saying he wasn't due to stop for another 8-10 laps but even if he hadn't crashed out he would have had to build a gap of over 25 seconds.. bearing in mind the Michelan types work better on the first lap after a safetye car incident anyway and they all the cars behind were on fresh types..

the point i was actually trying to make was the race wasn't as exciting as people make out.. we had no real overtaking.. it was just people crashing and retirements.. the end of the race may have been close but there was no way Button was every going to get the win so this close finish right down to the last lap of the race where we didn't know who was going to win was all an invention of the media.. take out the crashes and retirements and it's another boring Monaco procession.. having said that my make this into a GP trip next season..

[paulyoung666]

but you wont get overtaking at monaco will you , hockenheim should be well interesting i reckon :tu:

[Florence]

Wonder what will happen now Jaguar have lost their £140,00 0 diamond. Read more here about the diamond embeded in the bonnet of the jaguar (http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/05/24/monaco.diamonds/index.html)

[paulyoung666]

ralf on pole , i wonder if he has 1 or 2 eggcups of fuel on board :disturbd: :erm: :disturbd: :erm: :disturbd:

[homealone]

I wonder how many people he will take out at the first corner :(

- brakes are going to be a big issue on this circuit. ;)

[Alanmelon]

I wonder how long it will take ITV to pull the coverage if it over-runs into the football.

[paulyoung666]

I wonder how long it will take ITV to pull the coverage if it over-runs into the football.


it goes over to itv2 at 7-00 pm , not much good if you aint got digital though :(

same as the qualies not being shown live because of coro bluddddy nation street rerun :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[ian@huth]

I wonder how long it will take ITV to pull the coverage if it over-runs into the football.

I was just thinking the same thing with the two events being so close together. ITV2 are carrying live F1 from 7:00 to 7:40 so I would imaging that coverage would continue on there, no consolation if you can't get ITV2.

[homealone]

I wonder how long it will take ITV to pull the coverage if it over-runs into the football.

good point - that may be why they have the 1900 - 1940 slot on ITV2 scheduled - at a pinch they could continue race coverage on there?

<edit> I see Ian & Paul are thinking along the same lines :)

[paulyoung666]

good point - that may be why they have the 1900 - 1940 slot on ITV2 scheduled - at a pinch they could continue race coverage on there?

<edit> I see Ian & Paul are thinking along the same lines :)


yup we sure are , the race starts at 5-30 so i reckon it will be tight for it not to overun into itv2 , as the football dont start until 7-45 i cant see why they couldnt start the football at say 7-30 :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
as it happens it dont matter as i have sky , i would be well annoyed if i didnt though :2up: itv

[ian@huth]

This is where Sky+ comes into its own. England v France set to record so that means I can watch F1 until the race finishes and if it overlaps with the football I can immediately start to watch the match from the start, missing nothing. Try doing that with your VCR.

[keithwalton]

the itv2 coverage is there i think for the post race stuff and as a backup if it does over run. The f1 has already moved its start half an hour early in an attempt to avoid any cross over which is unlikely to happen itself but of course the football folk need there hours of worthless build up banter about nothing.
Just like with the f1 they should stop the rumours and show coverage no body is interested in what they think.

In our house we listened to the qualy on 5live extra and there audio coverage was supurb far more accurate and incitefull than the non live itv rubbish. 5live had anthony davidson assisting with commentry who is an upto date f1 driver who knows exactly what is going on because he does handfulls of laps on friday so he can talk about technical things properly.

I was glad to see though that the advert breaks in the f1 were nothing but a pair of itv adverts each time, apart from the paper that i cant remember as there main sponser they had nobody else :-D serves them rite for putting out such crap at useless times and still pretending that its live :rolleeyes:

K

[homealone]

This is where Sky+ comes into its own. England v France set to record so that means I can watch F1 until the race finishes and if it overlaps with the football I can immediately start to watch the match from the start, missing nothing. Try doing that with your VCR.

days like today I wish I had it, what with superbikes, motogp, cricket, F1 & football, there is a lot to fit in :)

[ian@huth]

days like today I wish I had it, what with superbikes, motogp, cricket, F1 & football, there is a lot to fit in :)

Oi, have you been looking at my program planner? :D :D :D :D

[homealone]

Oi, have you been looking at my program planner? :D :D :D :D

caught me - even though I missed out Le Mans to try & put you off the scent ;):D

[ian@huth]

caught me - even though I missed out Le Mans to try & put you off the scent ;):D

That's recording straight after Moto GP but I forgot about the Indy car racing and BTCC. And some are asking why you would want to record two programs at once. NZ all out for 218 if you are interested.

[paulyoung666]

days like today I wish I had it, what with superbikes, motogp, cricket, F1 & football, there is a lot to fit in :)


and touring cars , my head is :spin: :juggle: :fit: :rofl:


edit :- beaten to the touring cars , doh :D :D :D

[Graham]

How the *hell* does Michael Schumacher *do* it?!

He starts in sixth. He's racing down in the lower places. He's got car trouble and yet, somehow he *STILL* goes on to win the bloody race!!

Ok, so he is an incredible driver, but he got this one by sheer bloody fluke of the Renaults dropping out, more than anything else. Somehow it doesn't seem fair! :mad: :shrug:

[Jonboy]

Theirs Class And Their Is FIRST Class :Sun:

[Alanmelon]

A couple of big crashes so far - Alonso and R Schumacher are out following suspected punctures/tyre failure. Had a couple of safety cars too, but it looks to have played into the hands of the Ferraris again! :mad:

[andy 1]

formula one.wake me up when its over.champ cars are on at 9.00 much more exciting and you don't know who's going to win before the race starts.
f1 motor RACING, bernie ecclestone should be sued under the trades description act.

[paulyoung666]

formula one.wake me up when its over.champ cars are on at 9.00 much more exciting and you don't know who's going to win before the race starts.
f1 motor RACING, bernie ecclestone should be sued under the trades description act.


on which channel ??????????????

[andy 1]

motors tv channel on sky live at 9.00pm

[paulyoung666]

motors tv channel on sky live at 9.00pm


cheers :)

[Jonboy]

The Man In Red Puts It To Bed Again

:nworthy:

[homealone]

The Man In Red Puts It To Bed Again

:nworthy:

he did - but what did the crowd really think about only 8 cars running at the end? - pit stops/tyres/fuel, they can cope with - but, if F1 is to succeed in the USA our cars need to be less fragile :shrug:

[Graham]

Blimey there was some serious carnage there!

But any Americans who say that F1 is boring needs to seriously reconsider their opinions!!

if F1 is to succeed in the USA our cars need to be less fragile

Or, rather, that the Yanks need to understand that F1 is not Indy Cars or whatever. For instance they could have (should have!) taken the pack through the pitlane after the Ralph Schumacher incident, instead of making them drive through masses of debris (and *why* did it take so long for them to get anyone *to* his car??) which may well have contributed to later incidents

Also why the *hell* did it take three quarters of the race to decide to exclude Montoya? I'm sure there are going to be protests about that in the next few days.

It's a pity, because it was a great race.

[paulyoung666]

he did - but what did the crowd really think about only 8 cars running at the end? - pit stops/tyres/fuel, they can cope with - but, if F1 is to succeed in the USA our cars need to be less fragile :shrug:

very true , after watching the champ cars where they bounce all over the place and as long as the wheels are pointing in the right direction they just carry on going :tu:

[homealone]

Blimey there was some serious carnage there!

But any Americans who say that F1 is boring needs to seriously reconsider their opinions!!



Or, rather, that the Yanks need to understand that F1 is not Indy Cars or whatever. For instance they could have (should have!) taken the pack through the pitlane after the Ralph Schumacher incident, instead of making them drive through masses of debris (and *why* did it take so long for them to get anyone *to* his car??) which may well have contributed to later incidents

Also why the *hell* did it take three quarters of the race to decide to exclude Montoya? I'm sure there are going to be protests about that in the next few days.

It's a pity, because it was a great race.

Good points there, Graham :tu:

[paulyoung666]

alonso on pole m schumacher 2nd , button and coulthard on the 2nd row , could be an interesting 1st corner seen as the renaults start so well :D

[Jonboy]

it sure will be where is montoya i missed the practice today

:bigcry:

[paulyoung666]

it sure will be where is montoya i missed the practice today

:bigcry:



6th :erm:

[homealone]

I overlaid & missed qualifying :erm:

- good to see the Mclarens looking more competitive, though :tu:

[paulyoung666]

it looked to me as schumacher was trying too hard to get pole , and with barichello in 10th , i cant see him getting much backup unless he is on another well weird strategy :erm: , there will be summat wrong if alonso doesnt make a storming start and schumacher could well find him having some serious fun with button and coulthard until coulthards engine gives up :disturbd:

[homealone]

it looked to me as schumacher was trying too hard to get pole , and with barichello in 10th , i cant see him getting much backup unless he is on another well weird strategy :erm: , there will be summat wrong if alonso doesnt make a storming start and schumacher could well find him having some serious fun with button and coulthard until coulthards engine gives up :disturbd:

with Renaults reputation for making good starts, I reckon you're right, Paul, Alonso should have the drop on the rest of them.

I'm hoping Coulthard's engine (and Raikonnen's) will do the distance, they are supposed to have modified it to improve the oil flow - need a 'fingers crossed' smiley. :) :scratch:

[andy 1]

whats the betting for tomorrow's race.
m schumacher 1st
r barrichello 2nd
j button 3rd
game over
give him the trophy now.

a thoroughly bored out of my skull F1 fan.
andy 1

[iadom]

Did anyone spot the news on Friday that Max Moseley is packing the job in.

[paulyoung666]

whats the betting for tomorrow's race.
m schumacher 1st
r barrichello 2nd
j button 3rd
game over
give him the trophy now.

a thoroughly bored out of my skull F1 fan.
andy 1



fair play , but hope springs eternal i say :erm:

[homealone]

Did anyone spot the news on Friday that Max Moseley is packing the job in.

yes, a sad day, in my opinion, Max seems to be a real gent.

I reckon he's had enough of the b*ching & arguing and not being able to get the rule changes past the team bosses. He was less than complimentary about one of them, but it wasn't disclosed which one that was. :erm:

[paulyoung666]

yes, a sad day, in my opinion, Max seems to be a real gent.

I reckon he's had enough of the b*ching & arguing and not being able to get the rule changes past the team bosses. He was less than complimentary about one of them, but it wasn't disclosed which one that was. :erm:


i dont suppose it would have been ferrari would it :Yikes:

[paulyoung666]

:wtf: are itv thinking of , putting the news on half way through the race :fit: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[iadom]

Well one more race won in the pit lane.:(
When was the last time anyone actually won an F1 race by overtaking the 2nd placed man in the last 20 laps under true racing conditions.
An amazing shunt though, the strength of F1 cars never ceases to amaze me, how the hell did he walk away from that.

[paulyoung666]

Well one more race won in the pit lane.:(
When was the last time anyone actually won an F1 race by overtaking the 2nd placed man in the last 20 laps under true racing conditions.
An amazing shunt though, the strength of F1 cars never ceases to amaze me, how the hell did he walk away from that.



dont ask me i dont have a clue how the hell they can walk away from something like that :Yikes: :Yikes: :Yikes: :Yikes:

[Jonboy]

tac tic's my son tac tic's :nworthy: :nworthy: all down to brain power

[Matth]

yes, a sad day, in my opinion, Max seems to be a real gent.

I reckon he's had enough of the b*ching & arguing and not being able to get the rule changes past the team bosses. He was less than complimentary about one of them, but it wasn't disclosed which one that was. :erm:
I remember the commentator saying that Minardi were against the new qualifying, as they'd lose out on a return of the 107% rule (not really needed, while there are only 10 teams instead of the 12 there once were), and then some other teams followed suit for their own reasons.

As usual, a miserable weekend for Minardi, especially after the death of sporting director John Wilson.

How do they manage to keep up any enthusiasm? - neither the speed, nor the reliability, nor the luck to make any impact, while the other Italian team...

The Ferrari is the best car, or if not the best in everything, the best all-round package.
Schuey is one hell of a driver, but we've never seen a fair fight with his team mate ... and some extremely unfair ones!
And then, there's the strategy, the reliability, the luck - some would say you make your own luck, but if he dropped his toast, it would land butter side up!

[paulyoung666]

tac tic's my son tac tic's :nworthy: :nworthy: all down to brain power



which is fair play to a point , it starts to wear a bit thin when it happens all the time , i can see where you are coming from but it aint racing is it , tbh i would rather watch btcc where it is bumper to bumper and let the best man win , lets be honest , there is far too much money involved in the sport now :erm:

[gary_580]

Another predictable outcome. WOT NO COMPETITION!

[iadom]

tac tic's my son tac tic's :nworthy: :nworthy: all down to brain powerOh dear, silly me, thinking it was about the best driving ie; speed, control, overtaking etc.:rolleyes:

[Jonboy]

yes i have to agree pauly my friend now its geting like football its a pity it all cant go back to basic's in all the sports trouble is if we could do that we as a country would be well hammered even more than we are allready
can't see any real answer can you ??? :shrug:

[iadom]

yes i have to agree pauly my friend now its geting like football its a pity it all cant go back to basic's in all the sports trouble is if we could do that we as a country would be well hammered even more than we are allready
can't see any real answer can you ??? :shrug:Calculate the average distance the field can manage on a full tank of fuel and then abolish pit stops altogether. Then the really skilful driver who can look after his tyres and fuel consumption, whilst actually having to try and overtake on the race track ( it is still called a race isn't it ) instead of having to rely on trained robots and computers in the pits.
It may even become exciting again and at a stroke reduce the massive costs incurred.
but on the other hand, I may have to start playing squash with a wooden Dunlop Maxply Fort instead of my state of the art graphite composite racket, now I would not like that one bit.;)

Oh yes, they could also make the drivers run to get into their cars like they used to at Le Mans. ( just being silly now) sorry.:angel:

[ian@huth]

How about putting ballast in the cars, one kilo for each championship point. That'd slow Schumi down a bit (I think). :D

[Matth]

Abolish qualifying, and start them in the reverse order of the last race finishing positions - then you'd see plenty of overtaking!

[paulyoung666]

yes i have to agree pauly my friend now its geting like football its a pity it all cant go back to basic's in all the sports trouble is if we could do that we as a country would be well hammered even more than we are allready
can't see any real answer can you ??? :shrug:


i can see an answer and it comes from america , i watched the cart racing on motors tv ( sorry , sky only ) and the racing was far from boring , some real ballsy racing and if a car went off the track then it was push/pull started and away it went as long as all the wheels were pointing in the right direction , i say go back to slicks , reduce the wings , steel brakes and a manual/sequential gearbox that the driver has to take his hand off the wheel to change gear with , add a bit of success ballast as in btcc and i reckon we would have a sport worthy of its name , the idea of 2 timed sessions would imho work to the good of the sport , saturdays prequalifying was pathetic , lets all go as slow as we can so we run first in the proper qualifying so we can avoid the rain we might get is total ******** imho , the push to pass button works extremely well in cart racing , why cant something like that be introduced into f1 ?????????? , rant over :D :D :D :D

[MetaWraith]

Abolish qualifying, and start them in the reverse order of the last race finishing positions - then you'd see plenty of overtaking!
Probably more accidents too

[paulyoung666]

Probably more accidents too



why ??????????


sorry :(

[Jonboy]

as i said back to basic's ie repair a blown engine not rip it out and put a new one in etc etc

[paulyoung666]

as i said back to basic's ie repair a blown engine not rip it out and put a new one in etc etc


but a blown engine is what it is , a blown engine , the speed they spin at there is going to be considerable damage :disturbd: :disturbd: :disturbd: :disturbd:

[homealone]

i can see an answer and it comes from america , i watched the cart racing on motors tv ( sorry , sky only ) and the racing was far from boring , some real ballsy racing and if a car went off the track then it was push/pull started and away it went as long as all the wheels were pointing in the right direction , i say go back to slicks , reduce the wings , steel brakes and a manual/sequential gearbox that the driver has to take his hand off the wheel to change gear with , add a bit of success ballast as in btcc and i reckon we would have a sport worthy of its name , the idea of 2 timed sessions would imho work to the good of the sport , saturdays prequalifying was pathetic , lets all go as slow as we can so we run first in the proper qualifying so we can avoid the rain we might get is total ******** imho , the push to pass button works extremely well in cart racing , why cant something like that be introduced into f1 ?????????? , rant over :D :D :D :D

I pretty much agree with all of those suggestions, Paul, the only one I'm not sure of is the 'push to pass' button, as afaik, that works by temporarily allowing more boost from the turbo - and we ain't got them. ;) - but slicks, smaller wings, success ballast, steel brakes & manual/sequential gearboxes :tu:

[paulyoung666]

I pretty much agree with all of those suggestions, Paul, the only one I'm not sure of is the 'push to pass' button, as afaik, that works by temporarily allowing more boost from the turbo - and we ain't got them. ;) - but slicks, smaller wings, success ballast, steel brakes & manual/sequential gearboxes :tu:



fair point about the push to pass , i reckon they could do something similar along the lines of mixture adjustment though :)

[ian@huth]

Push to pass works in Cart because all the cars are using the same engine. I like the Cart system of allowing the cars to be restarted with assistance and continuing in the race.

[andy 1]

i don't know if you saw it but on last weeks collectable models on ideal world they had a scale model of a ferrari formula one steering wheel from 2003,and the expert guy showed you ferrari's push to pass button on it.
i don't know how it worked but he definately called it a push to pass button.

[paulyoung666]

i don't know if you saw it but on last weeks collectable models on ideal world they had a scale model of a ferrari formula one steering wheel from 2003,and the expert guy showed you ferrari's push to pass button on it.
i don't know how it worked but he definately called it a push to pass button.


maybe it was like i said , a mixture adjustment button :)

[andy 1]

could be but i wonder if any other f1 team as the same button,because something for sure gives ferrari the edge and i don't think its all down to schumacher or ross brawn.

[paulyoung666]

could be but i wonder if any other f1 team as the same button,because something for sure gives ferrari the edge and i don't think its all down to schumacher or ross brawn.


but it cant be illegal as it would have been picked up on :erm:

[andy 1]

ask ron dennis about ferrari,he knows there's one rule for ferrari and one for everybody else.
why would it have been picked up on,ferrari are not going to be so stupid as to call it a push to pass button are they.

[paulyoung666]

ask ron dennis about ferrari,he knows there's one rule for ferrari and one for everybody else.
why would it have been picked up on,ferrari are not going to be so stupid as to call it a push to pass button are they.


very true but dont you think the fia might just check all the cars thouroughly ;)

edit :- i am sticking with my mixture adjustment idea :)

[andy 1]

in my opinion the fia and mr ecclestone want schumacher to win 17 out of the eighteen races this year,so i'm sure a blind eye can be turned.

[paulyoung666]

in my opinion the fia and mr ecclestone want shumacher to win 17 out of the eighteen races this year,so i'm sure a blind eye can be turned.



sorry mate but i reckon that is talking total and utter ******** , nothing personal , think about it , what are they going to gain from that , f@ck all i reckon apart from annoying all the formula 1 fans , sorry my mate i reckon you are very very far from the mark on that one :erm:

[MetaWraith]

The "push to pass" button or whatever was mentioned in commentary during one of Schu's overtaking manoeuvres in the French GP.

[paulyoung666]

The "push to pass" button or whatever was mentioned in commentary during one of Schu's overtaking manoeuvres in the French GP.


and like i said it is going to be some sort of engine adjustment , i.e. mixture richening or whatever

[andy 1]

sorry paulyoung666,
but bernie ecclestone is money motivated,and if schumacher was to win the championship say by hungary,the fans for the races after that who maybe would have bought tickets won't be so motivated to buy them,and tv viewers less likely to watch the last few races.that would annoy the tv companies who pay millions to show f1 and the sponsors wouldn't like it to.
so bernie wants schumacher to win all the remaining races, so the fans and viewers will keep watching to see if he can do it.
that way people can't say it is boring(which i think it is by the way)and bernies happy, sponsors are happy, and the tv companies are happy.
after all even the greatest british racer this country has had (nigel mansell) says f1 is boring and after the start he can't bear to watch it.

[paulyoung666]

sorry paulyoung666,
but bernie ecclestone is money motivated,and if schumacher was to win the championship say by hungary,the fans for the races after that who maybe would have bought tickets won't be so motivated to buy them,and tv viewers less likely to watch the last few races.that would annoy the tv companies who pay millions to show f1 and the sponsors wouldn't like it to.
so bernie wants schumacher to win all the remaining races, so the fans and viewers will keep watching to see if he can do it.
that way people can't say it is boring(which i think it is by the way)and bernies happy, sponsors are happy, and the tv companies are happy.
after all even the greatest british racer this country has had (nigel mansell) says f1 is boring and after the start he can't bear to watch it.


very sorry andy1 but i reckon your logic is very seriously flawed :disturbd:

[homealone]

sorry paulyoung666,
but bernie ecclestone is money motivated,and if schumacher was to win the championship say by hungary,the fans for the races after that who maybe would have bought tickets won't be so motivated to buy them,and tv viewers less likely to watch the last few races.that would annoy the tv companies who pay millions to show f1 and the sponsors wouldn't like it to.
so bernie wants schumacher to win all the remaining races, so the fans and viewers will keep watching to see if he can do it.
that way people can't say it is boring(which i think it is by the way)and bernies happy, sponsors are happy, and the tv companies are happy.
after all even the greatest british racer this country has had (nigel mansell) says f1 is boring and after the start he can't bear to watch it.

Isn't that the point, though, Andy 1? - people want to see healthy competition, drama, overtaking - not one bloke driving into the distance race after race. It will be an incredible achievement for Schumacher if he can win the rest of the 'races', but a spectator friendly experience, it aint :(

Slightly off topic, but to illustrate what I mean, I watched the World Superbike races from Laguna Seca, last night - I was on the edge of my seat the whole time. The combination of a circuit that makes Cadwell Park look flat & some excellent camera work, highlighting the supreme skill & bravery of the riders, was superb. I know which I would rather watch, these days, & I've been a fan of F1 since I was a kid.:shrug:

[andy 1]

haven't you twigged it yet paulyoung666.
what bernie wants bernie gets.
and bernie wants schumacher to win all the remaining races,so a blind eye can be turned,by the fia the stewards ,charlie whiting and ,the scrutineers.after all cheating has been known to go on in f1.

[andy 1]

whats your point homealone
i agree with what you say about f1,all i am trying to say is i think ferrari have something on there car which lets them win races.and its not all down to schumacher.

[paulyoung666]

haven't you twigged it yet paulyoung666.
what bernie wants bernie gets.
and bernie wants schumacher to win all the remaining races,so a blind eye can be turned,by the fia the stewards ,charlie whiting and ,the scrutineers.after all cheating has been known to go on in f1.


sorry my mate , you are talking out of your @rse , i wouldnt normally rise to this but you are really getting my goat over this :mad:

[homealone]

whats your point homealone
i agree with what you say about f1,all i am trying to say is i think ferrari have something on there car which lets them win races.and its not all down to schumacher.

Too be honest Andy 1, I was avoiding that point, sorry. It's a very controversial, subject. The trouble is, I'm at a loss to think how any mechanical 'boost' could be given, without compromising engine reliability (e.g. by raising the rev limiter), or fuel consumption. That then leaves electronic aids, which were supposed to have been drastically reduced, so who knows? The software is supposed to be scrutineered........

I actually think it's the tyres that have had the most effect, myself, Bridgestone make bespoke tyres for Ferrari - all the other teams have to design their cars around the tyres Bridgestone & Michelin will supply them with, Ferrari's tyres are designed for the car. - which can run with your theory, rather than contradicting it :)

[Graham]

i think ferrari have something on there car which lets them win races.and its not all down to schumacher.

If it's down to "something on the car", how come even Rubens Barricello can't keep up with Michael Schumacher?

Yes, Ferrari have got one of the greatest GP cars ever, but they *also* have one of if not *the* greatest GP *drivers* ever.

Schumacher has demonstrated this time and again and in the future MS will be talked about in the same breath as Fangio, Clark, Prost and Senna as someone who made Formula One "their" sport.

As to this "push to pass" button, my guess is that either it improves the fuel mixture to add a little extra "oomph" for a few seconds, or it raises the setting of the rev limiter to give some more power briefly, neither of which, from what I understand, are illegal under current F1 rules.

[Graham]

I'm at a loss to think how any mechanical 'boost' could be given, without compromising engine reliability (e.g. by raising the rev limiter), or fuel consumption.

The point is, though, that it's only temporary. If the engine was revving at that speed all through the race or consuming fuel at that rate, then it would be too much, but we're probably only talking of a boost for a matter of a few seconds.

[homealone]

The point is, though, that it's only temporary. If the engine was revving at that speed all through the race or consuming fuel at that rate, then it would be too much, but we're probably only talking of a boost for a matter of a few seconds.

true - and, as you say, afaik, it is within the rules - the only slight niggle is why you need a 'push to overtake' button, when you are in front, all the time ;)

[paulyoung666]

true - and, as you say, afaik, it is within the rules - the only slight niggle is why you need a 'push to overtake' button, when you are in front, all the time ;)



good point that i reckon ;)

[keithwalton]

The push to pass button increases, or removes the upper rev limiter on the engine. As when in the slipstream of another car you have less drag and so can go faster. Usually a car will be setup to just fall shy of its rev limiter on the fastest part of the circuit. If you were following someone else close enough you'd hit your limiter and be stuck at normal speed.

The reason why its a button is because you do not want the engine to stray into high revs to often which could happen in the other 6 gears if the limiter was just set higher.
It's most likely easier to have one limit and an overide button than for the ecu to work out what gear the car is in and apply a limit based upon that.

Why would ferrari need it ? Backmarkers and being out of position from pit stops

Bring back the good ol' days of qualy, on fast circuits you could make use of your team mate to slipstream down a straight and then duck out of the way.
K

[Graham]

true - and, as you say, afaik, it is within the rules - the only slight niggle is why you need a 'push to overtake' button, when you are in front, all the time ;)

Ahem, Silverstone?

Schumacher was *not* in front until another piece of brilliant team pit-stop strategy (going two stops when virtually everyone else was doing three) and some traffic left MS sitting pretty yet again.

[ian@huth]

true - and, as you say, afaik, it is within the rules - the only slight niggle is why you need a 'push to overtake' button, when you are in front, all the time ;)

The "push to pass" button is also a "push to prevent being passed" button. It gives a boost to help overtaking OR to prevent other cars from overtaking you.

[keithwalton]

The "push to pass" button is also a "push to prevent being passed" button. It gives a boost to help overtaking OR to prevent other cars from overtaking you.
No it does not do the latter read my post please.
It stops the car hitting 'the wall' when in a slipstream it cannot prevent the car from being overtaken

[basa]

No it does not do the latter read my post please.
It stops the car hitting 'the wall' when in a slipstream it cannot prevent the car from being overtaken

I think you miss ian's point.

If the lead car, suspecting he is about to be overtaken, hits the rev limiter button he can attain a few extra mph thus preventing an overtake. Of course if the chase car also hits his button all things are back equal again !! :rolleyes:

[andy 1]

hi graham
have you ever thought,schumacher could be better than barrichello because rubens doesn't have on his car what ever m shumacher has on his.ie illegal software.
and for the rest of you.
as for michael schumacher being the greatest driver of all time.
don't make me laugh,a driver who has to have it written into his contract that his team mate always as to defer to him.who's team mate isn't even allowed to overtake him.
a driver who's team go bitching to the stewards and the fia because the grooves on the opositions tyres are 0.5 of a millimetre to wide.
no schumacher isn't the greatest driver of all time,he just hasn't got the opposition he used to have since hakkinen jacked in and mclaren and williams lost the plot.
but i will agree on one thing ferrari have produced the best car for a long time.

[keithwalton]

I think you miss ian's point.

If the lead car, suspecting he is about to be overtaken, hits the rev limiter button he can attain a few extra mph thus preventing an overtake. Of course if the chase car also hits his button all things are back equal again !! :rolleyes:

If you had read my post you would of found that the car would be setup not to hit its rev limiter under normal conditions, that would just be silly if it did.
On the otherhand when one car follows another one closely it's drag is greatly reduced so it can go faster much faster, around 10mph quicker if no limiter is hit. Hence the button temporarely disables the limiter allowing the car to go faster.

This is not just a ferrari thingy btw, Renault, Williams, BAR, Toyota, McLaren, Sauber all have it. The only ones im not sure about are Jordan, Jaguar and minardi (all ford engines)

K

[ian@huth]

No it does not do the latter read my post please.
It stops the car hitting 'the wall' when in a slipstream it cannot prevent the car from being overtaken

The "push to pass" button is a feature of Cart racing, not F1, where all the cars run the same Ford Cosworth turbocharged engine. It provides an extra 50 BHP for the duration of the press (approx 10 seconds) by increasing the turbo boost 2 to 3 inches and the driver has the use of this for 60 seconds during the race.

The so called "push to pass" in F1 is basically a fuel economy system that the cars use to conserve fuel during the race. Pushing the button increases fuel flow to the maximum and also advances the ignition by a couple of degrees.

Both the Cart and F1 systems can be used to assist passing AND help prevent being passed. The Cart system gives a bigger percentage speed improvement than the F1 system.

[basa]

If you had read my post you would of found that the car would be setup not to hit its rev limiter under normal conditions, that would just be silly if it did.
On the otherhand when one car follows another one closely it's drag is greatly reduced so it can go faster much faster, around 10mph quicker if no limiter is hit. Hence the button temporarely disables the limiter allowing the car to go faster.

This is not just a ferrari thingy btw, Renault, Williams, BAR, Toyota, McLaren, Sauber all have it. The only ones im not sure about are Jordan, Jaguar and minardi (all ford engines)

K

I thought that's what I said ?? In order for any F1 car to go marginally faster for short periods the rev limiter is disabled (or adjusted up at least) via the steering wheel button. :confused:

The rev limiter usually has differing limits according to the gear selected and is useful for limiting revs on airborne cars :shocked: and another setting for the pit lane.

[keithwalton]

I thought that's what I said ?? In order for any F1 car to go marginally faster for short periods the rev limiter is disabled (or adjusted up at least) via the steering wheel button. :confused:

The rev limiter usually has differing limits according to the gear selected and is useful for limiting revs on airborne cars :shocked: and another setting for the pit lane.
I'm agreeing with you / backing up your statement.

[Graham]

have you ever thought,schumacher could be better than barrichello because rubens doesn't have on his car what ever m shumacher has on his.ie illegal software.

Have you ever considered that if you're going to make accusations like this it's a good idea to have some proof to back them up?

as for michael schumacher being the greatest driver of all time.
don't make me laugh,a driver who has to have it written into his contract that his team mate always as to defer to him.who's team mate isn't even allowed to overtake him.

Firstly AIUI the "no overtaking" contract condition was put in by Ferrari, not insisted on by Schumacher, because it makes no sense for the team to risk losing both drivers in a stupid accident when they can have a 1-2 instead. Secondly such "team orders" are now illegal anyway.

a driver who's team go bitching to the stewards and the fia because the grooves on the opositions tyres are 0.5 of a millimetre to wide.

So it's the team, not the driver? I suggest you look at the history of F1 and notice the number of times that there have been complaints by one team about another's car infringing some rule by a fraction of a millimetre.

no schumacher isn't the greatest driver of all time,he just hasn't got the opposition he used to have since hakkinen jacked in and mclaren and williams lost the plot.

Err, if his success is all down to that, how come he managed to win all those *previous* F1 championships...?

[paulyoung666]

and another point , which teams were d'qed for illegally sized brake ducts recently , ok it wasnt ferrari but dont you think that if they had them then they would have been ;)

[gary_580]

Or maybe the brake ducts issue was just down to incometence of other teams.

Maybe Ferarri are just good at hiding things?

Ever the heard the story (which was proven true and admitted) in the 80's where a NASCAR team were running a nitros engine but no one knew because the roll cage was in fact the gas cylinder. In the end the team that did it owned up because NASCAR ripped so many of their cars appart and found diddy squat every time.