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xathras
03-01-2004, 03:38
What gets me why do people actually use ntl, if there is so much customer dissatisfaction then surely all customers will be switching to alternatives :shrug:

Have I missed something?

Sociable
03-01-2004, 03:59
What gets me why do people actually use ntl, if there is so much customer dissatisfaction then surely all customers will be switching to alternatives :shrug:

Have I missed something?

OK a few possibilities spring to mind:

1. Not everyone has suitable alternatives. (Yet)

2. Most people actually believe they are getting what they pay for but are not always aware when they are not, sites like this help to point out the level of service they should be getting and provide help to ensure they do.

3. Some people actually think it is worth working to try and improve the services of the company they are already with rather than swapping at the first sign of problems.

4. NTL as a company need to take account of points 1 to 3 or ultimately your prediction could eventually become an increasing reality.

Oh and welcome to NTHW btw

This is a site that doesnt just moan but actually tries to gain improvements in NTL's services for the benefit of both us and them. So welcome aboard :)

Mick
03-01-2004, 04:05
What gets me why do people actually use ntl, if there is so much customer dissatisfaction then surely all customers will be switching to alternatives :shrug:

Have I missed something?

Hi xathras, Welcome to the site. :wavey:

People can actually enjoy their services from ntl, its just that sometimes the customer service isn't all what it should be. Promised phonecalls that never happen, arranged installations and the engineer fails to show up etc. Some customers have gone through hell with ntl, yet still want to remain a customer. For instance a woman who I will not name, in a problem I had dealt with on .com, had to pay up front £125 to become a customer, ntl wanted a security deposit because she moved into a house where the previous occupants were bad payers. Weeks went by and she still had not received any notification (after paying the deposit weeks earlier) if she could become a customer or not yet she still wanted the services from ntl.

Chris W
03-01-2004, 09:04
Hi xathras, Welcome to the site. :wavey:

People can actually enjoy their services from ntl, its just that sometimes the customer service isn't all what it should be. Promised phonecalls that never happen, arranged installations and the engineer fails to show up etc. Some customers have gone through hell with ntl, yet still want to remain a customer. For instance a woman who I will not name, in a problem I had dealt with on .com, had to pay up front £125 to become a customer, ntl wanted a security deposit because she moved into a house where the previous occupants were bad payers. Weeks went by and she still had not received any notification (after paying the deposit weeks earlier) if she could become a customer or not yet she still wanted the services from ntl.

Like any company, ntl have dissatisfied customers.. maybe they have more than most, but i think there it just looks like that because the customers have a place where they can all go to rant... which is nthw!

so welcome... but don't feel you have to rant if you don't want to!!

luftys
03-01-2004, 11:08
What gets me why do people actually use ntl, if there is so much customer dissatisfaction then surely all customers will be switching to alternatives :shrug:
First of all :welcome:

1, cost
2,cost
3 :cry: cant get sky
4,because my mum said

Bex
03-01-2004, 12:14
i have been on ntl for nearly 3years now....we have found, generally, that the service is a good one, and i persuaded dad to go onto it.... i think one has problems with any of the telecommunications business'.....

saying that our BB is cac atm and we are currently waiting for an ntl techy to come round

asdf
03-01-2004, 15:41
There are also lots of very satisfied customers.

Remember this site represents a very small minority of ntl, a minority that is largely disatisfied with their services. Most people that are satisfied wouldn't visit this site.

Bex
03-01-2004, 15:44
There are also lots of very satisfied customers.

Remember this site represents a very small minority of ntl, a minority that is largely disatisfied with their services. Most people that are satisfied wouldn't visit this site.

i beg to differ, not everyone on here is disatisfied, i am satified with my service, this site is about more than just whinging about ntl.....if one does have a problem with something, computer related in anyway this site is here to get information and advice

Theodoric
03-01-2004, 15:45
What gets me why do people actually use ntl, if there is so much customer dissatisfaction then surely all customers will be switching to alternatives :shrug:

Have I missed something?
Firstly, in no way am I putting myself forward as a defender of ntl! Howevever, lets take the statement "if there is so much customer dissatisfaction." Is there? Has anyone any reliable figures for the percentage of dissatisfied customers? People only start complaining when they get bad service. If you look at the number of people who complain on this and related sites (and I have been one of those complainers in the past), I doubt if it exceeds a few dozen. And this is out of how many million ntl customers? So, over to anyone who can provide a few reliable figures.

Sociable
03-01-2004, 15:49
There are also lots of very satisfied customers.

Remember this site represents a very small minority of ntl, a minority that is largely disatisfied with their services. Most people that are satisfied wouldn't visit this site.

And don't forget the ones like myself that are reasonably happy with the service but think things could be better and also want to simply help those who are not getting such a good service back on track. It's not all about moaning it's also about trying to make things better for fellow users now and for the future.

Sociable
03-01-2004, 15:59
I doubt if it exceeds a few dozen. And this is out of how many million ntl customers? So, over to anyone who can provide a few reliable figures.

I think the queues for Customer Service give a fair indication that the numbers over time having problems may be significant. In addition the long standing issues over things like e-mail have had an impact of pretty well every NTL customer.

It is also sadly a British trait to often put up with bad service so not all unhappy customers will actively seek change. The few who end up here are also usually those that have tried the normal route but have not found a solution so that probably explains the more angry nature of many posts.

That said, one thing that was very true of both .com and now here is that between us we have been able to find solutions for people that have actually retained customers for NTL

Long may that continue!!!

grum1978
03-01-2004, 16:10
I think the queues for Customer Service give a fair indication that the numbers over time having problems may be significant. In addition the long standing issues over things like e-mail have had an impact of pretty well every NTL customer.

It is also sadly a British trait to often put up with bad service so not all unhappy customers will actively seek change. The few who end up here are also usually those that have tried the normal route but have not found a solution so that probaly explains the more angry nature of many posts.

That said, one thing that was very true of both .com and now here is that between us we have been able to find solutions for people that have actually retained customers for NTL

Long may that continue!!!

Reasons why ppl call customer services...

1) to make a Credit card payment
2) To add channels onto their package or take channels off their pacakge
3) To have their bills expalined to them if they are unsure abt any items on them.
4) To complain abt the service i.e fault
5) other complaints ie ongoing issues.
6) Other

So its not safe to say that just because the wait can be long that all the wait is caused by bad experiences. A lot of calls are related to the first 3 things above so to use long queues as an arugement abt dis-satifaction is navie IMO :)

Sociable
03-01-2004, 16:16
Fair point Grum but the queue for tech support excludes the first three items. I do appreciate the distinction you make though which is of course true. :)

The general point I was making was that it is not only those that find their way here that have problems so the reverse arguement that all the rest that don't come here are perfectly happy is equally untrue. :)

grum1978
03-01-2004, 16:19
Fair point Grum but the queue for tech support excludes the first three items. I do appreciate the distinction you make though which is of course true. :)

The general point I was making was that it is not only those that find their way here that have problems so the reverse arguement that all the rest that don't come here are perfectly happy is equally untrue. :)

Argeed abt tech support as i don't have any knowledge at answering calls fro them I can't really comment but they will still get calls that are just abt customer education rather than a fault though.

Sociable
03-01-2004, 16:23
LOL Again true. :)

The fun bit is that the education sometimes works both ways, but that's another story. :)

ian@huth
03-01-2004, 16:28
I came to NTL because, theoretically, cable should have a big advantage over other methods of supply. Because I couldn't get NTL services when we moved to this address I went for Sky and BT. When NTL became available I took their phone, DTV base pack and dial up interenet which was a bargain at £9.99. Comparine the two television services I found that Sky was by far the best but I kept NTL DTV for a time to see if the service improved. It didn't and when Sky altered the charging for Sky+ I dropped NTL DTV and went for an all Sky TV service which is far superior to anything that NTL can offer.

I am still with NTL for telephone and Broadband, but only because of the discounts that I am getting from NTL retention department. When these discounts come to an end it will be time to look again at who I should be using and as things stand it will not be NTL.

It is time that NTL woke up and relised that their competitors are leaving them far behind. They had the dot com site which was giving them a hell of a lot of feedback regarding their services and comparisons with their competitors but they chose not to listen and thought that they would close the site rather than accept the truth about what customers thought and wanted. What a mistake!

Mick
03-01-2004, 16:40
That said, one thing that was very true of both .com and now here is that between us we have been able to find solutions for people that have actually retained customers for NTL

Long may that continue!!!

Absolutely spot on Sociable, customers want their services from ntl to work and when things go wrong its very frustrating for them, that they are on the verge of cancelling due to anger, sometimes anger gets the better of us and we say and do things we do not really mean to, its amazing to see a change in someone who was cursing ntl to begin with, submit a problem, then its resolved via our help, not just us but members too who have probably gone through the same experience and just want to share their advice and opinions that could help others - thats the spirit of a community, our community. :)

If customers did not have forums like this for them to vent their spleens, talk about it or seek help, then I think customers would just simply leave ntl just out of pure anger.

Florence
03-01-2004, 16:52
I changed to Cable and wireless when it became available due to the interferance that BT couldn't solve on my pnone line..

Cable&wireless changed to nynex then NTL. I did the change and would rather help NTL become the best company for the benefit of the customers.

themelon
03-01-2004, 17:18
ntl have a lot of happy customers all in all. I fail to see how they are being left behind in any way, Catching up maybe.

If $ky had inherited 2+ different satellite networks, running totally different software instead of monopolistically forcing anyone dareing to offer competition (BSB) out of business in the early days , I doubt their interactive would be what it is today..........and contary to misconcepted belief it is still a long way from perfect on many of the budget boxes 'given' away by $ky. I was a long standing Sky analogue customer after reluctantly switching from the early BSB......years of frankly rubbish customer service, and appaling treatment after moving house and a poor install' i switched to ntl. I havent looked back!! The Picture Quality on Sky was terrible compared to ntl and I thought before ntl that loosing your signal was just a fact of life in poor weather or on approach of the number 31 bus (complete with reflective adverts) just a few things to play havoc with my sky reception.

For me BT cant even offer a telephone line that doesnt crackle........which I think is appalling in this day and age, It cant be that hard to stop a crackle......hence the reason no BB ADSL for me, even if for some reason i wanted to have it.

Thank God for ntl!!

Paul
03-01-2004, 17:29
What gets me why do people actually use ntl, if there is so much customer dissatisfaction then surely all customers will be switching to alternatives :shrug:

Have I missed something?
Yes you have missed something - NTL have hundreds of thousands of customers and most are quite happy with their service.

Mr.Moony
03-01-2004, 17:41
It is time that NTL woke up and relised that their competitors are leaving them far behind.

Here is me thinking ntl had the most UK BB punters. Those clowns in the figures department lied to me again.

and called me fat.

Sociable
03-01-2004, 17:48
Here is me thinking ntl had the most UK BB punters. Those clowns in the figures department lied to me again.

and called me fat.

Actually it depends on what counts as "Broadband" so the official figures often vary according to who is quoting them. :)

Russ
03-01-2004, 18:07
Yes you have missed something - NTL have hundreds of thousands of customers and most are quite happy with their service.

Plus you have the 'put up and shut up' types - the ones who get bad service but think it'll be too much hassle to go elsewhere.

{FU}Fubar
03-01-2004, 18:18
If $ky had inherited 2+ different satellite networks, running totally different software instead of monopolistically forcing anyone dareing to offer competition (BSB) out of business in the early days , I doubt their interactive would be what it is today..........

just point out a small mistake for you , SKY bought out BSB so they did merge and have two sperate networks , the differance is that sky got there ***** together ntl havent and i doubt they would

Marge
03-01-2004, 18:24
I have ntl cos I get the associate package ;)

seriously tho no problems with the service and even if I left I would still keep packages even tho it would mean paying full price :erm:

luftys
03-01-2004, 18:25
If customers did not have forums like this for them to vent their spleens, talk about it or seek help, then I think customers would just simply leave ntl just out of pure anger.

Right on Dr P :rofl: ntl are average :shrug: but the help you can get on this site is great,and they are a lot of people that care :D we all want a better service,but you wont find a better site :D

(cant believe I am being nice about ntl :disturbd: )

Mr.Moony
03-01-2004, 18:39
Actually it depends on what counts as "Broadband" so the official figures often vary according to who is quoting them. :)

And 46% of the population was not normal according the latest readings. Official figures often vary according to what is considered normal...

Paul
03-01-2004, 19:23
(cant believe I am being nice about ntl :disturbd: )Take a couple of asprin and then lie down in a darkened corner for a bit. :D

MovedGoalPosts
03-01-2004, 19:27
As probably one of ntl's more vociferous critics after the cap issues, I too often wonder why I am still using them. In simple terms it's down to money. It will cost me a packet to move from ntl as I don't have a BT phone line wired to my house (without which I can't get BB services) and to get sky means I would loose the "free" telephone line rental currently bundled, in addition to the cost of ripping out the ntl cables and routing the new sky ones under the floorboards.

At present I prefer to be able to criticise ntl, when that is justified, from the standpoint of a customer. And perhaps I am lucky, the majority of the time ntl's services appear to do what I expect, even email (with only the occasional loss of server connection). However the time is fast approaching, especially with innovations such as Sky+, when I will vote with my feet, if ntl cannot keep up.

Cable should have been able to beat the pant's off the individual offerings of telecom, satellite and all, but not the way ntl do it. Where's decent interactivity on Digital TV, blisteringly fast [uncapped] broadband, equivalent of Sky+ recording etc? And that's in an area that appears to have good ntl services - what about those in areas without Broadband?

Chrysalis
03-01-2004, 21:02
many reasons ppl stay with ntl

1 - lack of competition, broadband ADSL not available everywhere
2 - family house might already have tv service and be happy with it so would be hard for net user to prise bill payer to BT
3 - landlord restrictions, might not be allowed sky dish on house or new fittings of phonelines (my scenario)
4 - cost, in some cases especially when cable is already in place it is cheaper to use ntl
5 - conveniance, people simply just cant be bothered to change providers and prefer to live with what they got

themelon
03-01-2004, 22:58
just point out a small mistake for you , SKY bought out BSB so they did merge and have two sperate networks , the differance is that sky got there ***** together ntl havent and i doubt they would


They didnt really operate two networks, though, Remember a $ky engineer calling round soon after the 'merger' fitting a huge ugly monstrosty dish in the place of the small rhombus reciver provided by BSB. Its a lot easier to fit monstrosties to peoples homes than to relay miles of cable or reinstall headends and £ÃÆ ’‚£Ãà¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚£S of hardware as ntl would have to.

A merger is the technical term, but really $kys money played the major factor, forcing BSB on to its knees then taking over its customers at Knockdown prices in true murdoch monopolistic fashion.

At the end of the day ALL of the companies are as bad as each other, its pot luck. But $KY and BT are as bad as ntl if not worse......its a matter of choosing between the evils. I was a customer with $ky for years and they are a long long way from having their '****' together.

Tristan
04-01-2004, 00:57
just point out a small mistake for you , SKY bought out BSB so they did merge and have two sperate networks , the differance is that sky got there ***** together ntl havent and i doubt they would

The Sky/BSB 'merger' was completely different though. They both used the same analogue technology: all that was required was that the subbscriber could see all the necessary satellites.

If the two rival services had both gone on to develop different and incompatible digital TV system before the takeover, it would be a very different story. Likewise if NTL had gone for CWC's digital system, as Telewest did, rather than their own, things would be much better today.

Chrysalis
04-01-2004, 01:56
well BT are greedy as well no doubt about that, but at least they are doing some kind of rollout, which I am sorry to say unless someone can prove me wrong the cable companies are not doing that.

dialanothernumb
04-01-2004, 02:44
Ahhhh... UDT would have sooo loved this thread. Can't someone unban him?

dialanothernumb
04-01-2004, 02:47
The Sky/BSB 'merger' was completely different though. They both used the same analogue technology: all that was required was that the subbscriber could see all the necessary satellites.



??
[Pedant mode ON]
As I remember it (as a squarial owner myself) my BSB stuff was state of the art DMAC Digital and redundant. Sky suggested I put up an "Astra" dish instead

Charlie_Bubble
04-01-2004, 03:53
Well, the reason I got NTL in the first place was the lease on my building doesn't allow people to put up external aerials etc., but this week I found out a neighbour in the same building has a sky dish, so I'm no longer concerned about this and have seriously thought about dumping NTL at the end of this month and getting SKY, BT and an ADSL isp.

It took me over a year to get NTL to reconnect my flat after I moved in. They had a completely different postcode for my flat and to them my flat didn't exist, despite the cable points in the living room. I had to directly contact a director of the company to get that mess sorted out and got 6 months free cable.

I used to have On Digital before I got cable and kept the On Digital box in my bedroom for about half a year after I got analogue cable. Strange how On Digital had a much better interactive service 4 years ago than NTL does today. The only thing keeping me with NTL at the moment is the broadband and this attraction will diminish if the cost of the TV or BB goes up. I am annoyed every time I visit my parents and see their red button working on their Sky system. All I get, over 3 years after getting "digital" cable is a box that either freezes upon pressing the red button, very poor interactive that looks like it was put together by a 5 year old as a lunchtime activity or a white screen telling me I should move to Sky.

When BB first came out in my area I signed up for it and got a letter telling me they would let me know when I could be installed. 7 or 8 months later I had ADSL put in as I got tired of waiting. Strangely enough, the day before my ADSL install date, NTL emailed me to ask if I would like a free cable trial. I replied that I had wanted it before and they had missed the boat as I was having ADSL installed the next day. Boy, you should have seen the number of messages on my answer machine from the NTL sales team trying to get me to cancel my ADSL install and get cable instead.

Last year I almost left again after having the most horrendous packet loss on my BB. after 3 "engineer" visits it hadn't gotten any better, so again I had to contact a director and finally the problem was fixed within a couple of days.

I'm afraid the main problem with NTL is that they do have 'technology tamed', but it's several years after the competition have been there and done it, often much better. They are good at trying to put into action their customer service when they realise they might lose your custom, but overall they are an organisation which doesn't inform their customers about anything they are doing and takes years to achieve the slightest visible change in services to customers. For all I know there are millions of NTL bods trying to get interactive tv working, caller display on the phones, solve the email and news server crappiness, re-arrange the channels into a coherent order etc, but as a customer I don't hear jack about it. As a company working in the communications business, their own communication with their lifeblood, the customer, leaves a great deal to be desired!

leeswin
04-01-2004, 11:52
I use ntl for 2 reasons:
A) I cant offord sky (3 boxes and mutiple packages)
b) If anything goes wrong they replace the box. and do not screw me for the cost of another if i happen to be outside 12 months.

regards

Rone
04-01-2004, 13:08
One little point that i read on another "related" ex-site, is that most peeps using the net wouldnt know what a problem is as regards browsing etc.
If your mail works ok, and your web pages work, thats them satisfied, of course they wont complain. Even if its running slowly, they have no comparison or experience.
Lots of peeps here do, they spot a problem, and hopefully brings it to someones attention, and hopefully a fix.
We are not naturally a nation of complainers [but maybe we are getting better] the picture of the average British chap [or chappess]taking anything thats thrown at them, needs kicking in to touch imo. ;)

ian@huth
04-01-2004, 13:26
ntl have a lot of happy customers all in all. I fail to see how they are being left behind in any way, Catching up maybe.

That must be the quote of the century. If you think that they are not being left behind in any way just look at the past twelve months.

Sky have brought the cost of Sky+ down and introduced dual recording. Where is the NTL personal video recorder and the ability for NTL customers to record two different Sky channels using only the one box?

You can get 2Mb broadband on Telewest cable and DSL, but where is the NTL 2Mb service?

You can get caller display on BT lines but how about NTL?

You can get eight different European Championship games on one Sky channel but how many can you get on NTL?

You have a (theoretical) cap on NTL broadband services but none on most competitors service.

You have a company in NTL that doesn't listen to its customers and prefers to push things under the carpet or forget about them (power users group for example). Closing the dot com site can only be seen as progressive behaviour by the idiots that did it. Can you honestly say that the closure was in NTLs or their customers interests.

Most of NTLs competitors are reducing the price of their broadband services but NTL have increased the cost of their lowest broadband tier.

I am sure that other site members can add to this list of reasons why NTL are falling behind. Perhaps you can list the areas where NTL are catching up?

Mr.Moony
04-01-2004, 14:58
Yes they have more features. So why dont they have more customers?

Damn right

themelon
04-01-2004, 16:23
That must be the quote of the century. If you think that they are not being left behind in any way just look at the past twelve months.

Sky have brought the cost of Sky+ down and introduced dual recording. Where is the NTL personal video recorder and the ability for NTL customers to record two different Sky channels using only the one box?

You can get 2Mb broadband on Telewest cable and DSL, but where is the NTL 2Mb service?

You can get caller display on BT lines but how about NTL?

You can get eight different European Championship games on one Sky channel but how many can you get on NTL?

You have a (theoretical) cap on NTL broadband services but none on most competitors service.

You have a company in NTL that doesn't listen to its customers and prefers to push things under the carpet or forget about them (power users group for example). Closing the dot com site can only be seen as progressive behaviour by the idiots that did it. Can you honestly say that the closure was in NTLs or their customers interests.

Most of NTLs competitors are reducing the price of their broadband services but NTL have increased the cost of their lowest broadband tier.

I am sure that other site members can add to this list of reasons why NTL are falling behind. Perhaps you can list the areas where NTL are catching up?

Sky+ is again a Niche market, it is still out of range of the majority of people of either have no need for it or cant afford it £199 is still a lot of money. Ntl are bringing out VOD (Video on Demand) which offers similar flexibility to PVR (Ordering a show when you want it) Sky are left behind in this?? no they just choose a different route which is fair enough, customer choice is a good thing!

How many DSL Providers have 2mb services?? About 3-4 maximum i can see currently, is their sufficient demand for such services currently??........probably not if you completely honest the majority of people arent on fast services, they are on low/mid tier packages, high speed is something of a Niche market. Most of ntls broadband customers are on 150k and are more than happy with this over dial up at £2 more than various dial up providers.

You can get caller display on parts of the ntl network perfectly fine.........I for one can, I dont have a great deal of use for it anyway most of the time. This is again down to different networks, BT had their network paid for by the tax payer.......yet they still cant provide me with a line free of crackles in 2004, my priorities lie with clear calls as opposed to caller id and such like...........get the basics right first!! My BT line was/probably still is practically useless for all services, it cant get ADSL because of the noise.

Sky Sports Extra has only just been added, Theoretically Sky Active can be added to Sky Sports on Cable should Sky desire to, they may not want to as its a selling point for them. Apparently Sky and ntl are talking of porting Sky Active to cable when cr3 is ompletely rolled out.

BT Are and ntl competitor and have a cap as do Virgin ADSL services, more will soon have to follow suit, the UKs archaic network isnt up to the task of everyone being on broadband and without serious investment by ntl and BT, we can never look beyond 8Mbs and services will become crippled once contention to exchanges is on maximum limit.

ntlworld shouldnt have been closed, but BT and Sky have actually forced legal action on various sites of a similar capacity, at least there are alternatives.

ntl have increased the cost of the lower broadband tier, firstly they have increased the speed by 22kbs which is the diference between a 14kbs modem and a 36kbs modem...........which was considered quite a major difference a few years back and can make a significant difference to surfing. Another reason for the increase could be to port customers from 150k to 600k services enabling them to phase out 150k.........and who knows bring in that illusive 2mb service that millions of screaming customers want!! A lot of ADSL prices remain static BT starts at £27.99 which has been at that level for some time for a 512k service, as is AOL and most of the big name companies. ntl isnt competeting with smaller ISPs like Pipex. Also lets not forget even with the cheapest ADSL Service of £18.50 a month, you have to pop the BT line rental of £9.50 on top, whether or not you use a telephone so the cheapest ADSL Service in my eyes is £28.

Paul
04-01-2004, 16:46
You can get caller display on BT lines but how about NTL?

You can get eight different European Championship games on one Sky channel but how many can you get on NTL?

I have CLI on my NTL line - do all BT lines ? - they certainly didn't used to.

I don't understand the comment about eight matches on one channel - what do you mean ?

DrAwesome
04-01-2004, 17:04
I have CLI on my NTL line - do all BT lines ? - they certainly didn't used to.

I don't understand the comment about eight matches on one channel - what do you mean ?

I have been told that i can add & remove features and edit settings like my caller line ID number in real time via my account with my internet ADSL supplier can you do this online with your NTL account?

i think he is refering to Sky Sports inter-active

ian@huth
04-01-2004, 23:00
Sky+ is again a Niche market, it is still out of range of the majority of people of either have no need for it or cant afford it £199 is still a lot of money. Ntl are bringing out VOD (Video on Demand) which offers similar flexibility to PVR (Ordering a show when you want it) Sky are left behind in this?? no they just choose a different route which is fair enough, customer choice is a good thing!

snip

Also lets not forget even with the cheapest ADSL Service of £18.50 a month, you have to pop the BT line rental of £9.50 on top, whether or not you use a telephone so the cheapest ADSL Service in my eyes is £28.

LOL.

I don't appear to see the many areas that you say NTL are catching up with. There is VOD of course which you say is .... coming soon, maybe. We all know what NTL mean by that.

Quite a pathetic attempt to paint the NTL service as being so perfect and its competitors so inadequate. If you keep repeating along these lines you may even start to believe that NTL are as good as you say.

I don't know why you and others knock Sky so much. If it wasn't for Sky what choice of channels would you think there would be on NTL? Sky dishes I can put up with, I hardly ever notice them even though there are many about. What I do notice is the scarred roads and pavements where cable has been laid and the ugly black wiring running across many rendered house fronts where the cable installers haven't even tried to follow a less obtrusive path.

Paul
04-01-2004, 23:16
LOL.

I don't appear to see the many areas that you say NTL are catching up with. There is VOD of course which you say is .... coming soon, maybe. We all know what NTL mean by that.

Quite a pathetic attempt to paint the NTL service as being so perfect and its competitors so inadequate. If you keep repeating along these lines you may even start to believe that NTL are as good as you say.

I don't know why you and others knock Sky so much. If it wasn't for Sky what choice of channels would you think there would be on NTL? Sky dishes I can put up with, I hardly ever notice them even though there are many about. What I do notice is the scarred roads and pavements where cable has been laid and the ugly black wiring running across many rendered house fronts where the cable installers haven't even tried to follow a less obtrusive path.The fact is that NTL are good in some areas and poor in others, as are their competitors - all have their good and bad points. Also - you may not be aware, but many areas will not allow you to install a sky dish on the side of your house so they have no choice - cable, standard analogue, or nothing (or maybe freeview if they are lucky, but no sky channels).

ian@huth
04-01-2004, 23:28
The fact is that NTL are good in some areas and poor in others, as are their competitors - all have their good and bad points. Also - you may not be aware, but many areas will not allow you to install a sky dish on the side of your house so they have no choice - cable or nothing.

I agree with what you say, there is quite a difference in service levels depending on what part of the country you are in and who your supplier is. Unfortunately it only takes one poor company representative's handling of a situation to tarnish the customers impression of the company.

I know that some properties and areas are prevented from having Sky dishes but there are ways round this for many of them, with a little searching on google. You don't necessarily have to have a dish to receive Sky. See who can be first to come up with a link to a tested alternative?

zovat
05-01-2004, 12:08
The fact is that NTL are good in some areas and poor in others, as are their competitors - all have their good and bad points.

And there is the crux of the issue.....

Most people stay with NTL because it does what they need, and is available at a reasonable price...

People often compare NTL and Telewest, but they are not in direct competition, you cannot replace NTL with Telewest, so why should NTL worry about what Telewest can offer....

The majority of people who use NTL are happy with the service (or at least not so unhappy that they are actively searching for an alternative)...

We have to remember that as a forum that is dedicated to allowing people to moan, whinge ang generally get their problems off their chest, we will see a great deal more complaints than we will praise, and therefore get a skewed idea of what the service is really like...

Chrysalis
05-01-2004, 13:22
yep although I hate to say it you are right

ntluser
05-01-2004, 13:37
And don't forget the ones like myself that are reasonably happy with the service but think things could be better and also want to simply help those who are not getting such a good service back on track. It's not all about moaning it's also about trying to make things better for fellow users now and for the future.

Include me in that group, Sociable.

The service I have received from NTL has been pretty good, bearing in mind that no company is perfect. However, there are things that can be improved and there's nothing wrong with forum members raising those issues and discussing them with a view to gaining an improvement in the quality of service.

In my case, I campaigned with forum members in London for progress on the provision of broadband there, even though I live in Manchester, simply because I felt that their quality of service should, all things being equal, be as good as the service I receive.

I think too that it's also about the way in which you discuss and highlight failings as NTL are more likely to respond positively if you present reasoned arguments and prove your case. In that way they recognise that you have a fair point and have no real excuse for not taking it on board.

Sociable
05-01-2004, 13:56
Well said ntluser!!

Particularly love your final paragraph btw, it says it far better than I did.

rodd
06-01-2004, 16:00
................ntl have increased the cost of the lower broadband tier, firstly they have increased the speed by 22kbs which is the diference between a 14kbs modem and a 36kbs modem...........which was considered quite a major difference a few years back and can make a significant difference to surfing............ Erm, not quite accurate, I think.

An increase of 22 kbs to 150 kbs is a 14.66 % increase.

The difference between a 14 kbs and 36 kbs modem is a 257.14 % increase.

Not quite comparable to the 14.66 % increase on the 150 kbs.

An increase of a 14 kbs modem to 16 is the real comparison.

Both are increases that will hardly be noticed. A 5 minute download can be done a 3/4 of a minute faster.

Chrysalis
06-01-2004, 21:18
that increase was made so their price increase looked justified.

stamp92
06-01-2004, 23:34
i started using ntl over three years ago.

i switched to them originally from BT for the cheaper phone calls.

i took up the free dialup service when it came out for a while but then switched to broadband.

i liked NTL for its cheaper prices on phone calls and its value for money broadband service.

Now however I have cancelled NTL and switched back to a BT line and am using call18866.co.uk for my calls.

1p a min to uk landlines
10p to mobiles
1p a min to landlines in over 50 countries

1p connection on all calls.
billed by the second.

i am in the process of switching my broadband service away from ntl to silvermead

39.99 for 2mb adsl

Chris W
07-01-2004, 00:00
The sum that i did was price of phone line + price of any adsl that i could find = more than ntl BB

and i have no complaints at all about the service!

themelon
07-01-2004, 00:17
LOL.

I don't appear to see the many areas that you say NTL are catching up with. There is VOD of course which you say is .... coming soon, maybe. We all know what NTL mean by that.

Quite a pathetic attempt to paint the NTL service as being so perfect and its competitors so inadequate. If you keep repeating along these lines you may even start to believe that NTL are as good as you say.

I don't know why you and others knock Sky so much. If it wasn't for Sky what choice of channels would you think there would be on NTL? Sky dishes I can put up with, I hardly ever notice them even though there are many about. What I do notice is the scarred roads and pavements where cable has been laid and the ugly black wiring running across many rendered house fronts where the cable installers haven't even tried to follow a less obtrusive path.

LMAO!

I knock Sky.......as do many other because they offered me a crap service I was a long term customer and they are going down hill big style, Ive experienced it first hand. if they continue at this rate it is only so long before they shed customers! You are perfectly entilteld to like $ky and dislike ntl..........different experiences but I know who id rather be a customer of!!

What are you on about?? ntl without $ky? the only channels $ky provides for ntl is Sky Movies, Sports, Travel. The rest of the channels are independant from any operator UK TV, ITV Granada, Viacom etc etc, Sky provides a fraction of services, which frankly I could live without if they never had existed!! Infact on the contary ntl broadcasting provides a great deal of channels for $ky BBC, ITV, CH4, CH5, UKTV+, Viacom are all routed through ntl broadcasting before the sattellite uplink! So maybe you should be thanking ntl for that!!

Also the comment on the dishes is a little ammusing, If you dont see them you obviously have your eyes shut!! The 'official' '£1' installers make a right hash of many a house, the dishes are hung on the rafters left right and centre, bolted on obtrusive poles to get a signal, rusting dishes, black cables dangling down a wall not even pinned in..............i dread to think what the inside is like, if its anything like my last experience black cable on cream walls!! mmmmmm. I do agree dishes can be hidden by quality installers, but $ky dont use quality, they use monkeys, to offer fitting for £1 and free equipment they have to cut corners somewhere! The vast majority of Installs are very shoddy indeed. I would have to recommend to anyone cosnidering $ky to use a local independant electrical retailer for fitting, they will do a better job and you will get a better service, its well worth the extra cash. Dont be fooled by bargin prices, its like buying a cheap set of spanners for £5 over a £50 set.........in a year you will replace the £5 ones but the £50 ones will still be going strong in 20 years!

ian@huth
07-01-2004, 01:25
LMAO!

I knock Sky.......as do many other because they offered me a crap service I was a long term customer and they are going down hill big style, Ive experienced it first hand. if they continue at this rate it is only so long before they shed customers! You are perfectly entilteld to like $ky and dislike ntl..........different experiences but I know who id rather be a customer of!!

What are you on about?? ntl without $ky? the only channels $ky provides for ntl is Sky Movies, Sports, Travel. The rest of the channels are independant from any operator UK TV, ITV Granada, Viacom etc etc, Sky provides a fraction of services, which frankly I could live without if they never had existed!! Infact on the contary ntl broadcasting provides a great deal of channels for $ky BBC, ITV, CH4, CH5, UKTV+, Viacom are all routed through ntl broadcasting before the sattellite uplink! So maybe you should be thanking ntl for that!!

Also the comment on the dishes is a little ammusing, If you dont see them you obviously have your eyes shut!! The 'official' '£1' installers make a right hash of many a house, the dishes are hung on the rafters left right and centre, bolted on obtrusive poles to get a signal, rusting dishes, black cables dangling down a wall not even pinned in..............i dread to think what the inside is like, if its anything like my last experience black cable on cream walls!! mmmmmm. I do agree dishes can be hidden by quality installers, but $ky dont use quality, they use monkeys, to offer fitting for £1 and free equipment they have to cut corners somewhere! The vast majority of Installs are very shoddy indeed. I would have to recommend to anyone cosnidering $ky to use a local independant electrical retailer for fitting, they will do a better job and you will get a better service, its well worth the extra cash. Dont be fooled by bargin prices, its like buying a cheap set of spanners for £5 over a £50 set.........in a year you will replace the £5 ones but the £50 ones will still be going strong in 20 years!

Having very conveniently ignored the question about the areas where NTL is catching up (we are all waiting with baited breath) you continue to knock Sky with many points you make being more applicable to NTL than Sky.

Only Sky movies, sports and travel! That is the biggest part of what most customers want. Without the customer base that Sky provide do you think that most of the other channels would exist? Think logically about it, looking at what audience they would have without Sky.

I don't know where you get the picture of Sky installations from as I have hardly ever seen a bad Sky installation and have lived all over the UK since Sky was launched.

I like your quote about £1 installation and free equipment. That is only available on the web and is £1 dearer than what NTL are offering so what does that say about NTL using your logic?

I have had all my Sky installations done under the £1 scheme and they have all been first class and have never had a Sky digibox fail on me. The NTL install was also perfect but only after much arguing with the install crew and telephone calls to NTL whilst they were there. I must say that the NTL faults department were very quick to send out engineers to replace fauly boxes (five of them) usually arriving within 2 to 3 hours of my call.

I would like to know where you get the idea that Sky is going downhill big time from? Show us the proof!

themelon
07-01-2004, 17:04
Having very conveniently ignored the question about the areas where NTL is catching up (we are all waiting with baited breath) you continue to knock Sky with many points you make being more applicable to NTL than Sky.

Only Sky movies, sports and travel! That is the biggest part of what most customers want. Without the customer base that Sky provide do you think that most of the other channels would exist? Think logically about it, looking at what audience they would have without Sky.

I don't know where you get the picture of Sky installations from as I have hardly ever seen a bad Sky installation and have lived all over the UK since Sky was launched.

I like your quote about £1 installation and free equipment. That is only available on the web and is £1 dearer than what NTL are offering so what does that say about NTL using your logic?

I have had all my Sky installations done under the £1 scheme and they have all been first class and have never had a Sky digibox fail on me. The NTL install was also perfect but only after much arguing with the install crew and telephone calls to NTL whilst they were there. I must say that the NTL faults department were very quick to send out engineers to replace fauly boxes (five of them) usually arriving within 2 to 3 hours of my call.

I would like to know where you get the idea that Sky is going downhill big time from? Show us the proof!

ntl is catching up in all areas in my opinion, but I will never get you too agree so wheres the point. They are developing new better software to run on both platforms, converting the platform to a single standard allow them to develop new applications for both platforms, and implement changes more easily accross the network. ntl doesnt need to catch up on broadband it has 1 million subscribers and offers the cheapest standalone broadband package, lets not forget even the cheapest ADSL service requires £9.50 addition to the monthly cost for BT line rental you may not even want. Telephone, service is pitty much equal on ntl and BT its luck of the draw really but there is little difference.

Without Sky channels could still exist, infact they might even be free who knows, no one can really answer that, but if we didnt have the channels we wouldnt care anyway!! Movies and Sport are nice but not essential to anything, I Couldnt find any figures but i believe the majority of Sky viewers are on the free to view, base and family packs which only include Sky One, Sky News and Travel.

The £1 Install has been available for a long time and is often a offer at DSG and other electrical outlets since before the web was a mass audience I can remeber that offer, its got worse the installers used to do a sound job.

My evidence is I was a BSB/Sky subscriber for over 10 years, I have watched customer service get worse over this period, I have watched the service get worse from Sky Analogue, I have had two very poor installs from official installers, Appalling treatment from customer service, £60 call outs for faults of the incompetent installers (dish alignment). Intermittent service in various weather conditions. Various other people have experience similar things looking around a range of forums. I have had a very bad time with them and am justified in my opions on them.

It doesnt mean YOU will get a bad service from Sky, It doesnt mean I will get a bad service from ntl because you did. All I know is that between ntl and Sky ntl have offered me a service light years ahead of what Sky offered me, and what BT can offer (33kbs dial up)

All I want people to know is that Sky is far from the 'perfect' service that some people make it out to be. Im willing to accept ntl isnt perfect, but it works fine for me and theres no reason why it shouldnt for others. I guess when I see people raving about $ky I like to offer another side of the story.

rodd
07-01-2004, 17:06
that increase was made so their price increase looked justified.The price rise of ntl's 150k made it the worst value-for-money product at around that price, even with the 22k added to the 150k.

For a mere £1 extra you can get ADSL 500k download, 250k upload, an upload even double that of ntl's 600k BB offering, which has only a 128k.

Plus.net offers that at £18.99 (500k download, 250k upload). NTL just offers 150k (172k with the added 22K) download, 64k upload at £17.99. So, who wouldn't pay the £1 extra for getting so much more from Plus.net?

NTL is just not competitive against the numerous choices of ADSL providers that are now available. You can do far better than ntl, by switching to ADSL, which is now so simple and hassle-free to do. (There is more on switching in the section - 'Alternatives to ntl').

Plus.net is just one of those alternative choices that are open to you, ("Best Broadband ISP" Award 2003, PC Pro magazine) ("Best ISP on the Planet" Award 2003 Internet Magazine).

The competition against ntl is now so very strong, that ntl will continue to fall behind, until they start to become more competitive.

The answer to the question 'why people use ntl', is in this case, why indeed?

orangebird
07-01-2004, 17:11
The price rise of ntl's 150k made it the worst value-for-money product at around that price, even with the 22k added to the 150k.

For a mere £1 extra you can get ADSL 500k download, 250k upload, an upload even double that of ntl's 600k BB offering, which has only a 128k.

Plus.net offers that at £18.99 (500k download, 250k upload). NTL just offers 150k (172k with the added 22K) download, 64k upload at £17.99. So, who wouldn't pay the £1 extra for getting so much more from Plus.net?

NTL is just not competitive against the numerous choices of ADSL providers that are now available. You can do far better than ntl, by switching to ADSL, which is now so simple and hassle-free to do. (There is more on switching in the section - 'Alternatives to ntl').

Plus.net is just one of those alternative choices that are open to you, ("Best Broadband ISP" Award 2003, PC Pro magazine) ("Best ISP on the Planet" Award 2003 Internet Magazine).

The competition against ntl is now so very strong, that ntl will continue to fall behind, until they start to become more competitive.

The answer to the question 'why people use ntl', is in this case, why indeed?

Do the prices you've quoted against ntls include a modem?

rodd
07-01-2004, 17:58
Do the prices you've quoted against ntls include a modem?On the £24.99 package, yes.

On the £18.99 package, the modem is £42.
For Plus.net's better product than ntl, by almost 3 times (2.9) better at download than ntl, 4 times better at upload than ntl, it's a minuscule amount to pay in the first year only. Who would hesitate on choosing Plus.net's overwhelming better value over ntl.

asdf
07-01-2004, 20:34
You also forget phone line rental.

rodd
07-01-2004, 22:25
The BT line only needs reactivating (free), if the (deactivated) line were already there, which for most ntl customers it likely is.

The vast majority will likely use a landline at home, even if they have a mobile phone. Only a very few will not.

It's a worthwhile benefit, having a BT line, for the flexibility of choice there is from the wide range of very competitive suppliers, with contracts as short as one month. The choice with ntl is pretty well zero.

There is more in the section Alternatives to ntl, demonstrating how hassle-free and simple it now is to switch over to ADSL, and also more information on other suppliers.

So for most there will not be an extra line cost, and this is what you will get for just £1 more than ntl's £17.99 package. -

On Plus.net's £18.99 package with a modem cost of £42 (a minuscule cost in the first year only).

Plus.net, the better product than ntl, by almost 3 times (2.9) better at download than ntl, 4 times better at upload than ntl, . Who would hesitate on choosing Plus.net's overwhelming better value over ntl.

Jonboy
08-01-2004, 00:08
i love ntl i find them very understanding when i cant pay all my bill at once. i ring em up advise them of me problem come to an arangement to pay and all is well very rare do i get disconected due to bad connections the tv is average, but so is sky etc going by the viewing over christmas on bbc itv thank god for ntl i say i think good value all round meself

ian@huth
08-01-2004, 00:11
ntl is catching up in all areas in my opinion, but I will never get you too agree so wheres the point.

snip




I fully agree that some users will find no problems with NTL and are really happy with them. I used to think that my 96 baud (yes 96, not 96K) modem was brilliant and was over the moon with it. A lot of people draw comparisons between services without seeing them running side by side over a lengthy period. My comparisons have been made having both NTL and Sky DTV, NTL and BT telephone and NTL BB running side by side here for a lengthy time and using an ADSL connection each day.

I would welcome your ideas on where NTL is catching up in order that I can make an evaluation as to whether I agree with you or not. If you provide the evidence then I can do nothing but agree with you. Failure to provide the evidence is an admission that you are wrong.

I would love NTL to get its act together and supply the kind of service that only cable can and at a competitive price, but they are not doing this. When they do they will have my custom for sure.

By the way, what do you use for TV reception when the NTL service goes down. If the answer is "it never does" then imagine that it did, what would you use?

themelon
08-01-2004, 01:13
You dont though this is my point......

On ntl you can have broadband for just £17.99 a month all inclusive.

For ADSL you need to start with paying £9.50 a month for a BT Line:

So for the cheapest ADSL Package from Gio I think, at £18.50 you will also be paying £9.50 per month, the modem costs and activations costs (where applicable)

£9.50 + 18.50 = £28 per month for even the cheapest ADSL Service, And £24.99 for Tiscallis equivilent 150k service.

Effectively like for like ntl is still the cheapest because there is no line rental for Broadband.

ian@huth
08-01-2004, 01:23
You dont though this is my point......

On ntl you can have broadband for just £17.99 a month all inclusive.

For ADSL you need to start with paying £9.50 a month for a BT Line:

So for the cheapest ADSL Package from Gio I think, at £18.50 you will also be paying £9.50 per month, the modem costs and activations costs (where applicable)

£9.50 + 18.50 = £28 per month for even the cheapest ADSL Service, And £24.99 for Tiscallis equivilent 150k service.

Effectively like for like ntl is still the cheapest because there is no line rental for Broadband.

Your argument is flawed in that most people want a land line and that is £9.50 through BT or NTL. Please don't come back and say thet the telephone line is free with NTL TV packagesAlso telephone call charges are far less than NTLs using a BT line.

I read somewhere today, can't remember where but I will look, that broadband prices in the UK have fallen 25% in the past year. Have NTLs?

Still waiting for the answers to the questions you are avoiding, LOL.

themelon
08-01-2004, 01:27
I fully agree that some users will find no problems with NTL and are really happy with them. I used to think that my 96 baud (yes 96, not 96K) modem was brilliant and was over the moon with it. A lot of people draw comparisons between services without seeing them running side by side over a lengthy period. My comparisons have been made having both NTL and Sky DTV, NTL and BT telephone and NTL BB running side by side here for a lengthy time and using an ADSL connection each day.

I would welcome your ideas on where NTL is catching up in order that I can make an evaluation as to whether I agree with you or not. If you provide the evidence then I can do nothing but agree with you. Failure to provide the evidence is an admission that you are wrong.

I would love NTL to get its act together and supply the kind of service that only cable can and at a competitive price, but they are not doing this. When they do they will have my custom for sure.

By the way, what do you use for TV reception when the NTL service goes down. If the answer is "it never does" then imagine that it did, what would you use?

I too still have first hand experience of Sky Systems, as my girlfriend has Sky at her house, I use ADSL at work because we cannot get cable to our place of work so have been through numerous providers. Pipex deserving a special mention for Good business ADSL, BT Connect deserves a stern warning to stay clear of!! I maybe very lucky with my ntl service but there is absolutely why other people shouldnt get lucky too!!!

I can say that ntl will soon be releasing interactive applications within the coming months (if all goes well) my company does work in developing etv applications with Matthew Stratfold at ntls enhanced television division which is currently working on a number of projects further to which i cant really say with the risk of landing myself in it, to come to fruition when cr3 is realeased which is quite a big stepping stone in enabling more stuff to come to cable, also some rough developement is being done for ETV in Video on Demand which is a longer term project.

ian@huth
08-01-2004, 01:32
What NTL propose to do and what they have in the pipeline is no consolation to customers. How often have we heard NTL say "coming soon" and years later it is still coming. You can only say that NTL is catching up when they have the product out in the field and it is working.

themelon
08-01-2004, 01:38
Your argument is flawed in that most people want a land line and that is £9.50 through BT or NTL. Please don't come back and say thet the telephone line is free with NTL TV packagesAlso telephone call charges are far less than NTLs using a BT line.

I read somewhere today, can't remember where but I will look, that broadband prices in the UK have fallen 25% in the past year. Have NTLs?

Still waiting for the answers to the questions you are avoiding, LOL.

Some people dont necessarily want a landline with the increasingly good mobile deals. Supposing I wanted ADSL I would have to pay 2 line rentals.

Using a BT Line (and BT Provider) call charges are not less especially if your paying £9.50 for line rental, As ive been through before, It depends on you calling patterns but ntl is pretty much equal to BT. Granted if you use another provider you can make some good savings.

Some broadband costs have fallen 25% but look at ntls competitors BT, AOL, etc who are all still charging in excess of £27.99 a month. There are deals to be found but do most of the general public bother to look, sadly not, in comparision to other big providers ntl is spot on, infact ntls pricing was years ahead of its competitors. Admittedly they may need to make alterations to the service soon to remain competitive.

But due to the lack of competition in the TV Market I couldnt change even if I did see a bargain (supposing BT repair my line!) because id rather pay more than have to endure Sky again for tv!!

themelon
08-01-2004, 01:40
What NTL propose to do and what they have in the pipeline is no consolation to customers. How often have we heard NTL say "coming soon" and years later it is still coming. You can only say that NTL is catching up when they have the product out in the field and it is working.

not really because I say 'Catching Up' not caught!! ;) But anyway :D

ian@huth
08-01-2004, 01:54
Some people dont necessarily want a landline with the increasingly good mobile deals. Supposing I wanted ADSL I would have to pay 2 line rentals.

snip



I fully agree with you on that which is why I don't understand NTL not offering TV packages without the phone line for £9.50 less than the current package charge. If you ask NTL to cancel the phone line but keep the TV they say that it will cost you the same as the phone line is free. Free my ****. This is a bad decision on NTLs part as they probably lose customers for both TV and phone services instead of just phone if someone doesn't want their phone line.

asdf
08-01-2004, 14:46
The BT line only needs reactivating (free), if the (deactivated) line were already there, which for most ntl customers it likely is.

The vast majority will likely use a landline at home, even if they have a mobile phone. Only a very few will not.

It's a worthwhile benefit, having a BT line, for the flexibility of choice there is from the wide range of very competitive suppliers, with contracts as short as one month. The choice with ntl is pretty well zero.


Ummm, but then I'd be paying for two line rentals on a phone I hardly use!

rodd
08-01-2004, 16:49
You dont though this is my point......

On ntl you can have broadband for just £17.99 a month all inclusive.

For ADSL you need to start with paying £9.50 a month for a BT Line:

So for the cheapest ADSL Package from Gio I think, at £18.50 you will also be paying £9.50 per month, the modem costs and activations costs (where applicable)

£9.50 + 18.50 = £28 per month for even the cheapest ADSL Service, And £24.99 for Tiscallis equivilent 150k service.

Effectively like for like ntl is still the cheapest because there is no line rental for Broadband.NTL 'broadband' at 172k download, 64k upload for £17.99.
Plus.net broadband at 500k download, 250k upload for £18.pp.

NTL's 'broadband', is not even classed as broadband, Plus.net's broadband is a true broadband.

For the £42 cost of a modem, and free reconnection of a BT line, you can have a true broadband from Plus.net, almost 3 times (2.9) faster downloading, and 4 times faster uploading than ntl.

No one would choose ntl's inferior product from the above.

As for the telephone landline.
What small percentage of BB users do not have a telephone landline, which ntl keep telling us 'get BB and free up your telephone line'?

The landline is not an extra-cost factor, for the majority.

rodd
08-01-2004, 17:01
Ummm, but then I'd be paying for two line rentals on a phone I hardly use!Then I'm afraid you are one of those that will lose out on the good deals available.

It's likely, only a small percentage of BB users that do not have a telephone landline, which ntl keep telling us 'get BB and free up your telephone line'.

The majority will have the advantage of all the better deals and wider choice available, by having a landline. Some would say that it would be worth getting a BT line just for the savings, choice and better service elsewhere.

ian@huth
08-01-2004, 17:11
A BT landline will also give you much lower call costs than NTL. The NTL 5p connection charge is an absolute ripoff. Can you get calls to the USA and Australia for only 1p per minute on NTL? You can with a BT line!

A BT line gives you choice of broadband supplier and choice of call provider.

asdf
08-01-2004, 23:43
But having a BT landline would mean that yes, I'd be able to have ADSL. But I'd then be paying for a BT landline and ALSO the current NTL landline that I hardly ever use, only for 0800/0845/0870 etc. calls.

Getting rid of the NTL line is pointless as it's included as part of the price of the digital tv package. In which case it would mean going to Sky.

Which in overall would be a massive hassle for a tiny little saving on a service that is currently fine :)

th'engineer
09-01-2004, 07:22
I have just had a offer through the door for sky family pack at £19.50 a month free install. Add the BT line and ADSL together its more expensive than NTL.

Therefore the reason i stay is that at this moment in time its cheaper.

rodd
09-01-2004, 17:17
It doesn't alter the fact that ntl's 150k (172k with the added 22k) is the worst value-for-money product at around that price.

For a mere £1 extra (Plus.net at £18.99 against ntl at £17.99) , and one-off-cost £42 modem, you can get ADSL 500k download, 250k upload. The reconnection of a BT telephone line is free.

It's true broadband from Plus.net, almost 3 times (2.9) faster downloading, and 4 times faster uploading than ntl's product, which is not even classed as broadband by Oftel.

Very few will want to keep their ntl telephone landline, when they can get that massive, 3 times and 4 times performance with Plus.net ADSL. For just that better performance value alone, most would consider it worth getting the BT line.

Other BT line advantages are more choices of BB supplier, often cheaper and with better service. More telephone supplier choices, including caller display.

A few may be tied in to a digital ntl package that uses a ntl line, but for the 1,500,000 (roughly) analogue users, that is not a factor. The others will no doubt, consider the massive performance gains of Plus.net between those two products, and all the other gains of having a BT line, and change over.

NTL is just not competitive against the numerous choices of ADSL providers that are now available. You can do far better than ntl, by switching to ADSL (if within range), which is now so simple and hassle-free to do. (There is more on switching in the section - 'Alternatives to ntl').

The competition against ntl is now so very strong, that ntl will continue to fall behind, until they start to become more competitive.

Customers are becoming more aware of how hassle-free that changing suppliers can be, and changing suppliers will become increasingly commonplace, which will add to the competitiveness.

havana
10-01-2004, 00:30
At the moment i use NTL as an ISP but due to there poor news servers also pay claranet so i can access there news server thinking of dumping NTL and going back to BT so i can use clara as my ISP newsgroup access then free with them plus would actually save me some money even though there monthly cost for broadband access is higher.
But hanging on just for another month hoping NTL sort out the problems with the news servers but not expecting them to suceed the way its going

asdf
10-01-2004, 00:58
rodd, no offense but, you're starting to sound like another ADSL advert that unfortunately this site is becoming rather polluted with.

ian@huth
10-01-2004, 01:07
rodd, no offense but, you're starting to sound like another ADSL advert that unfortunately this site is becoming rather polluted with.

Do you not think that this is because NTL are slipping behind its competitors? NTL seem to be stuck in limbo with the same packages, speeds and pricing, other than the 128k service which has theoretically got slightly faster and increased in price by over 20%. NTLs competitors are offering faster services and getting cheaper all the time. I would hope that NTL executives are monitoring this and similar sites and are taking heed of these "adverts" and are planning to take action to keep up or beat its competitors. The hundreds of thousand of NTLs loyal customers that they think do not have any problems with the "superior" service that they are getting and think will remain loyal to them no matter what will at some time realise that there is something better and cheaper elsewhere. Wake up NTL.

threadbare
10-01-2004, 09:16
The competition against ntl is now so very strong, that ntl will continue to fall behind, until they start to become more competitive.

Customers are becoming more aware of how hassle-free that changing suppliers can be, and changing suppliers will become increasingly commonplace, which will add to the competitiveness.there is only one competitor to ntl broadband and that is bt. ntl dont regard themselves as competing with plus net or any other ISP other than bt. with nearly a million BB customers they must be doing something right. no other BB provider comes close to that figure

ian@huth
10-01-2004, 13:07
there is only one competitor to ntl broadband and that is bt. ntl dont regard themselves as competing with plus net or any other ISP other than bt. with nearly a million BB customers they must be doing something right. no other BB provider comes close to that figure

And five years on when plus net and others are offering 10Mb broadband for £20 and NTL still only offer 1Mb for £35 what will you quote then and how many customers will NTL have, if they still exist? Only a foolhardy company would take the attitude that you quote NTL as having.

timewarrior2001
10-01-2004, 13:25
OK i'm a late comer to this thread I know but in reply to the original post.....

NTL are getting better!

There nuff said.

threadbare
10-01-2004, 15:18
And five years on when plus net and others are offering 10Mb broadband for £20 and NTL still only offer 1Mb for £35 what will you quote then and how many customers will NTL have, if they still exist? Only a foolhardy company would take the attitude that you quote NTL as having. I am sure they have their reasons for this attitude. the senarios you suggest is unlikely IMHO. however if bt were develop faster BB I am sure they would either pre-empt them or follow suit. it is only low uptake of the 1meg service that prevents them from increasing the speed of their service

rodd
10-01-2004, 16:07
rodd, no offense but, you're starting to sound like another ADSL advert that unfortunately this site is becoming rather polluted with.No offence taken asdf. :)
I have gone on a bit, as I put the fair point, as I see it, of the better deal that can be had with ADSL for many ntl users. Though not for some, such as those that may be tied into a ntl landline linked to another package deal.

I gave an example of the benefits of having a BT landline, when comparing those band options of ntl £17.99 and Plus.net £18.99, if not tied into a ntl package landline.

For me in that position, Plus.net is unquestionably the better value-for-money deal. Not needing a ntl landline for something like a digital TV package (I take analogue), and having a BT line (deactivated) that can be reactivated for free.

There must be hundreds of thousands of customers in that position. I think it is fair to enlighten them of better BB deals, for those in that similar position.

rodd
10-01-2004, 16:59
there is only one competitor to ntl broadband and that is bt. ntl dont regard themselves as competing with plus net or any other ISP other than bt. with nearly a million BB customers they must be doing something right. no other BB provider comes close to that figureNTL do seem to regard BT as being the only competitor. Which is why, at present, there can be found more competitive deals from the smaller companies that ntl do not appear to compete with. I gave one specific better deal for those in a particular situation.

There really are numerous smaller companies now, smaller but growing, and if totalled-up, must be taking a big chunk of customers from ntl. Many good smaller companies are offering what many consider, is a better service.

Customers can only be pleased at this competition, where they can benefit from going to one of those smaller companies. Customers will also benefit if and when ntl finally start to be more competitive with them.

Either way, the customer wins, there is just too much competition out there now, for the customer not to win out, and giving information of any better deals, is for customers’ benefit, rather than being against ntl.

th'engineer
10-01-2004, 17:59
NTL do seem to regard BT as being the only competitor. Which is why, at present, there can be found more competitive deals from the smaller companies that ntl do not appear to compete with. I gave one specific better deal for those in a particular situation.

There really are numerous smaller companies now, smaller but growing, and if totalled-up, must be taking a big chunk of customers from ntl. Many good smaller companies are offering what many consider, is a better service.

Customers can only be pleased at this competition, where they can benefit from going to one of those smaller companies. Customers will also benefit if and when ntl finally start to be more competitive with them.

Either way, the customer wins, there is just too much competition out there now, for the customer not to win out, and giving information of any better deals, is for customersâ₠¬â„¢ benefit, rather than being against ntl.
I have to agree with you RODD that if i was purely looking for BB i would pick another provider . But have the TV and phone as well at good price, however a price increase by NTL would make me change to BT for phone,Sky for TV and Plus net for BB .

I am sure the service from those providers is better, its taken a long time to get my NTL TV and BB sorted but the 2000 BOX is the Best so am happy apart from e-mail and dns if those services from NTL improved would be very happy

asdf
10-01-2004, 18:05
rodd, thanks for that reply :)

I understand that you're trying to get the best deal for those on here, but you're right in saying it's not for all :D

rodd
10-01-2004, 19:36
OK i'm a late comer to this thread I know but in reply to the original post.....

NTL are getting better!

There nuff said.Ah, but are ntl getting better, than the other companies that are getting better, that may be better at getting better than ntl is at getting better, or companies that are already better than ntl, so however better ntl gets, ntl will never be better than them, because they will also be getting better as ntl tries getting better?

I'm not so sure.

Paul
10-01-2004, 20:12
Ah, but are ntl getting better, than the other companies that are getting better, that may be better at getting better than ntl is at getting better, or companies that are already better than ntl, so however better ntl gets, ntl will never be better than them, because they will also be getting better as ntl tries getting better?

You what ?????????????

rodd
10-01-2004, 22:02
You what ?????????????;) Or to sum up.....ntl will always be trying to catch up, as the other companies continue to improve.

trebor
11-01-2004, 00:29
I don't use NTL anymore, I removed the stb today just before the sky engineer arrived ;)

Gogogo
11-01-2004, 10:20
I don't use NTL anymore, I removed the stb today just before the sky engineer arrived ;)

Yes, once we've sold our little pile of bricks and taken up new residence, hopefully soon, we shall finish our NTL telephone & internet service take on BT service, adsl etc and Sky TV service. NTL is to put it in a nutshell a really big disappointment. Cable & Wireless were a far better company.

havana
11-01-2004, 11:01
Talking about NTL pricing and speed have a look at http://www.fireflyuk.net/services/adsl.htm

I wonder if NTL could ever match them:wavey:

rodd
11-01-2004, 16:07
Even though ntl seems to be concentrating on only competing with BT, ntl are actually getting worse than BT, judging from the deteriorating ratings of users.

Between June '03 and Nov '03.
NTL worsened against BT by 6% on speed
NTL worsened against BT by 11% on reliability
NTL worsened against BT by 7% on service

NTL worsened against Plus.net by 7% on speed
NTL worsened against Plus.net by 12% on reliability
NTL worsened against Plus.net by 11% on service

http://www.adslguide.org.uk/isps/compare.asp?btretail=ON&ntlhome=ON&plusnet=ON&cmp_action=Compare

Mr.Moony
11-01-2004, 16:59
One thing I wuved about BT on my ISDN service was if there was a problem with the email service they would send you an email appolagising! Mind you that was only once, and I didnt even notice the problem. However! Without sending me any letter or warning or even ringing me, they cut off my ISDN service because I spent more than 24 Hours online in 48 hours? They did send me an email explaining they had done this, but how was I going to get that? Not amused so went with NTL and have been very happy ever since! (although the occasional slow browsing)

rodd
11-01-2004, 18:14
One thing I wuved about BT on my ISDN service was if there was a problem with the email service they would send you an email appolagising! Mind you that was only once, and I didnt even notice the problem. However! Without sending me any letter or warning or even ringing me, they cut off my ISDN service because I spent more than 24 Hours online in 48 hours? They did send me an email explaining they had done this, but how was I going to get that? Not amused so went with NTL and have been very happy ever since! (although the occasional slow browsing)The type of email I get from ntl, is one inviting me for a free taste of broadband, and in the tiny ghosted small-print, that I had to drag my mouse across it to highlight it, to read it – subject to a 12 months contract.

Taste and 12-month-contract is a contradiction. Is this the way that ntl now bypass the ASA, by emailing potential customers directly, with misleading offers?

Mr.Moony
11-01-2004, 18:19
The type of email I get from ntl, is one inviting me for a free taste of broadband, and in the tiny ghosted small-print, that I had to drag my mouse across it to highlight it, to read it ? subject to a 12 months contract.

Taste and 12-month-contract is a contradiction. Is this the way that ntl now bypass the ASA, by emailing potential customers directly, with misleading offers?

I am but a technical support agent Rodd, the sales team are the ones you need to discuss such matters with

rodd
19-01-2004, 17:54
rodd, thanks for that reply :)

I understand that you're trying to get the best deal for those on here, but you're right in saying it's not for all :DThose committed to the ntl landline may not benefit on that deal (plus.net £18.99 500K).

Online gamers would benefit from going the BT landline way (if able to). Those not interested in Kazza or p2p, but wanting a decent gaming speed and general internet use, can get it from Plus.net for £6 per month cheaper that the closest ntl offer at £24.99, (plus the £42 modem).

Plus.net £18.99 500k download, 250k upload, (plus the £42 modem).
NTL £24.99 600k download, 128k upload.

chickendippers
20-04-2004, 19:52
We went for ntl because we think it'd be difficult to attach a dish to the side of our house (it's clad in plastic which is over the orginal wood cladding). Also, the black dish would look ugly against the white cladding.

I'm not sure if the availablity of Sky is an issue, can't it be recieved everywhere in the UK and even Europe!?

chickendippers
20-04-2004, 22:14
just point out a small mistake for you , SKY bought out BSB so they did merge and have two sperate networks , the differance is that sky got there ***** together ntl havent and i doubt they wouldThat was in like 1990 - before digital services were in development, so there weren't any different systems running.

poolking
20-04-2004, 23:00
My reasons for using ntl:


1. At the time of having ntl installed, the terms of the lease where I live forbade the addition of any satellite dishes so that ruled sky out.

The freeview site said I would need an aerial upgrade, the aerial I use is a communal one so that is out of the question unless the occupiers of the flats around me agree to have the aerial replaced.

2. The phone line, I would have switched back to BT, but buggered up the master socket when pulling out the wires to remove an extension from the bedroom and I know that BT would charge £50 or more to rectify my destroy it yourself job. :D

3. Broadband, my master socket had been upgraded to ADSL but because of reason 2, has prevented my return to ADSL at this time.

Wolf
20-04-2004, 23:36
i'm leaving ntl. I have a problem with my broadband and they tol me to get someone else to fix it. So i am gonna try getting my connection from that someone else

Macready
21-04-2004, 00:43
NTL Broadband from my experience is dependant on where you are, what connection you have and what you use your internet connection for largely to how satisfied you are with it.

:)

breakerfall
22-04-2004, 21:52
One reason people still use NTL:

They joined when it was CWC (Cable n' Wireless) and they payed £9.98 for Cable television and that included the phone line rental. Unfortunately, NTL bought them out and prices continue to rise and rise and rise. The reason for sticking around? Hassle of getting rid and going back to BT. That or sheer lazyness :)

scrotnig
22-04-2004, 21:57
I use ntl because it works.
At present there is no reason to change.

I am currently due to be made redundant at the end of the year, and if that actually happens and I don't get redeployed, I will change then, but only on principal, nothing to do with whether it works or not.

Not everyone has problems...many customers are wholly satisfied with what they get from ntl.

akridine
01-05-2004, 13:33
What gets me why do people actually use ntl, if there is so much customer dissatisfaction then surely all customers will be switching to alternatives :shrug:

Have I missed something?


I use NTL because of their HFC network. BT wont last long before their network goes TU. NTL will allways be around, they may have a poor customer experience but their not likley to go anywhere coz their the only ISP that knows how to administer the HFC network

Bill C
01-05-2004, 14:26
Simple

My services work and therefor i have no need to change and i get 1 bill for all.

"yes i work for them but thats not the reason i have there services"

Derek
01-05-2004, 14:56
The reason most people use Ntl is that the vast majority of customers are happy with the service and see no reasons to change.

ian@huth
01-05-2004, 15:05
The reason most people use Ntl is that the vast majority of customers are happy with the service and see no reasons to change.

Where I live the majority of people have NTL because of the £9.99 offer of TV, telephone and free internet that was made when they were moving in together with free installation.

A lot have stayed with NTL because they couldn't be bothered to change even with current day prices.

I have noticed over the past year that most of the houses with a NTL box on the wall now have a Sky dish as well.

DbzDP
01-05-2004, 21:07
I got NTL just over a year ago, back then I didn't have any other choice as NTL was the only Cable or Broadband where I live, after the 12month contract ended, I was thinking of moving to PLusNET or Pipex, but I do not wanna pay for another modem, and the subscribtion of my line to DSL. I save about £75 is I stayed with NTL so i thought what the hell.