Merged: London Broadband. [Archive]

binary

02-07-2003, 19:10

Originally posted by Mark W
not sure where in london they are but there is broadband being rolled out in london containing xxxxx premises in Downham, Mottingham, Grove Park, Hither Green and Forest Hill and covers elements of the following postcodes: SE3, SE9, SE12, SE23, BR1 4xx and BR1 5xx.

in the same vein, am not sure exactly when. but if its not already avaliable then it will be 'imminent'.

hope this is good news to some folk out there :)

Quoted from Mark W's post in this thread (http://www.nthellworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=13276#post13276).

I'm starting this thread as a continuation of this old NTHW.com thread, "Waiting for London Broadband" (http://www.nthellworld.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33131), which, like all ntl product-related threads on NTHW.com, will shortly dissappear.

(I was criticised when I tried to migrate the discussion from that thread to this forum's "BB in South London This Year?" thread (http://www.nthellworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=548), as the issue is not merely one south of the river. This new thread addresses that.)

binary

02-07-2003, 19:28

(1) Can I suggest that we continue discussion of Broadband's imminent arrival (or lack thereof) to this thread, "Still waiting for London Broadband" (http://www.nthellworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=636).

The reason being that the issue is London-wide. Indeed the issue of lack of broadband is wider than that, but the new thread can focus on London.

(I was critised when I tried to move the discussion from this old NTHW.com thread, "Waiting for London Broadband" (http://www.nthellworld.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33131) (which will shortly be deleted due to NTHW.com changes), to this forum's "BB in South London this year?" thread (http://www.nthellworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=548) as the issue is not merely one south of the river. This new thread addresses that problem.) :)

Also this thread is veering wildly off-topic! On which note I shall say this...

(2) dieselking- Your mate might be living in a place called Bromley-by-Bow, which is in the east end of London.
However (confusingly) Bromley (the place), to the southeast of London, has a Kent postal address, but is within Greater London and is in the London Borough of Bromley. It is not within the boundaries of Kent County Council.
Bromley (the place) is obviously within the London Borough of Bromley.

Many places on the periphery of Greater London are in a sitiation similar to this, both being a part of (Greater) London and also notionally a part of an adjacent county (at least in a postal address sense). Bromley is regarded a town in it's own right, even though there are no green fields that seperate it from the sprawl of London. (Thats not to say that there's no green field though, as any Londoner will tell you there are plenty of significant open spaces, woods and parks in London.)

That answer probably confuses things more than it clears them up though! ;)

Gogogo

02-07-2003, 19:46

Binary, good man, my note was not meant to be critical if you meant me that is, but meant as a suggestion maybe I could have made that point clearer.

I think folk forget the Greater London is a huge area with God knows thousands of ntl customers and that some counties bordering have ntl customers that also look forward to receiving full ntl services. I agree the issue should be kept prominent and not allowed to die.

:wavey:

binary

02-07-2003, 20:00

Gogogo- when I said criticism I meant it in the legitimate, constructive criticism sense - helpful criticism that progresses discussions on - rather than the harsh, unnecessary sence of criticism.

Ditto- I also agree the issue should not die. Perhaps this thread could be where that issue is kept in the lime-light.

Greater London is really big, and has a big demand for broadband.

retep

02-07-2003, 20:03

I just read somewhere (NO not on .COM) that some firm called BULLDOG are starting a 6Mb service on their London network. This is to cost about ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£180 per month.

Mark W

02-07-2003, 20:13

Originally posted by binary

Can you clarify what you mean in the above sentence Mark- are you referring just to the postcodes you cited, or to the NTL network in London as a whole?

i was referring to those postcodes only im afraid. and i mean imminent, as we have been given instructions what to do with broadband customers calling with those postcodes.....

poolking

02-07-2003, 20:13

May I suggest you carry on posting in here, as it appears to be discussing the same issue:

http://www.nthellworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=548

binary

02-07-2003, 20:26

(1)
Originally posted by poolking
May I suggest you carry on posting in here, as it appears to be discussing the same issue:

...

No, please don't suggest that! :(

The whole point of creating this thread was because it is not merely a South London issue. The thread you cite is called "BB in South London This Year?".

I have tried to move discussion from that thread over to this one. If you read what I've written in my previous posts, I've explained this. :rolleyes:

(2) Mark W - a question. Broadband is imminent in the postcodes you quoted, however can you tell us anything about broadband coming to other postcodes in London?

I was under the impression that some areas had such bad under-street coaxial cabling that they'd never be able to support a broadband service, at least not until that cabling had been improved.

If this is the case are there any plans to improve the cabling?

binary

02-07-2003, 20:31

Thanks for the reply Mark. I am, unfortunately, not in any of those postcodes.

I've asked you a question on the "Still waiting for London Broadband" thread here (http://www.nthellworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=636), where I'm trying to migrate this discussion towards (as this is a whole-London issue, rather than just a south London one).

Mark W

02-07-2003, 20:39

Originally posted by binary
[B
(2) Mark W - a question. Broadband is imminent in the postcodes you quoted, however can you tell us anything about broadband coming to other postcodes in London?

I was under the impression that some areas had such bad under-street coaxial cabling that they'd never be able to support a broadband service, at least not until that cabling had been improved.

If this is the case are there any plans to improve the cabling? [/B]

To be honest, i cant answer that. not WONT, cant.

I fix peoples connection to the internet, sort their pc settings and help with their email and webspace - and a few other bits and bobs.

I'd probably be the last person to be told about whats being done in london, and i certainly dont know what is being planned.

As im not in control of the facts, im not prepared to speculate, sorry binary

binary

02-07-2003, 20:44

Thanks for the reply anyway, it's an honest answer! Your original post regarding the broadband service going live in those postcodes was surely good news for some I'm sure. I hope you'll be able to keep us on NTHW.co.uk posted on similar developments in the future.

Perhaps BBKing (who is or was involved in London broadband rollout), or indeed someone else in the know, can enlighten us with regards to the state of the network? :confused:

bigitup_j

02-07-2003, 20:47

well broadband trials in london have gone very very well, in other words it works (see ntl have been doing upgrades to enable the services) and are almost complete. so an autumn release of bb to south london (which includes parts of bromley, the bits on the boarder with lewisham) is likely and should happen. all good news from ntl.

bigitup_j

02-07-2003, 20:54

Originally posted by retep
I just read somewhere (NO not on .COM) that some firm called BULLDOG are starting a 6Mb service on their London network. This is to cost about ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£180 per month.
ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£180, that all!

but why would someone want 6mb, unless there are about 10 computers using the same connection or something. i'm quite happy on 150k (well 250k cause it's via stb).

and. south london is supposedly is of better quality, so north london might have to wait a bit more. and it looks like the postcodes mentioned before are in southeast london, but i have heard of trials in southwest london (like lambeth and southwark). so looks like bye-bye dial-up and hello:wavey: bb in london very soon!

Dazz285

02-07-2003, 23:23

Hi guys & gals,
I got this reply from Chris Collinson yesterday... only took 3 weeks to reply..

We had hoped to be able to launch the broadband service in your area some time ago. We have completed exhaustive tests on the network within the Harrow area and I can confirm that at the moment we have no plans to launch Broadband in your area. ntl:home will continue to invest in the network to enable us to provide more homes with a broadband service across London and I will be in touch with you as soon as there is any positive news. I can only apologise for any inconvenience this may be causing in relation to your current internet experience.

I sent a reply asking what the results of these exhaustive test were and also asked that if ntl are continuing to invest in the network then why are they not investing in Harrow?

As soon as I get a reply I'll post it..

:spin:

dieselking

02-07-2003, 23:44

Originally posted by binary

Also this thread is veering wildly off-topic! On which note I shall say this...

(2) dieselking- Your mate might be living in a place called Bromley-by-Bow, which is in the east end of London.
However (confusingly) Bromley (the place), to the southeast of London, has a Kent postal address, but is within Greater London and is in the London Borough of Bromley. It is not within the boundaries of Kent County Council.
Bromley (the place) is obviously within the London Borough of Bromley.

Many places on the periphery of Greater London are in a sitiation similar to this, both being a part of (Greater) London and also notionally a part of an adjacent county (at least in a postal address sense). Bromley is regarded a town in it's own right, even though there are no green fields that seperate it from the sprawl of London. (Thats not to say that there's no green field though, as any Londoner will tell you there are plenty of significant open spaces, woods and parks in London.)

That answer probably confuses things more than it clears them up though! ;)

Thank you

Sorry to lead this thread off track:) :wavey:

hawkmoon

03-07-2003, 11:48

Originally posted by retep
I just read somewhere (NO not on .COM) that some firm called BULLDOG are starting a 6Mb service on their London network. This is to cost about ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£180 per month.

Bulldog already offer a 4Mb ADSL service which they call Primetime. This means that between Mon - Fri 6pm to 8am, allday weekends and public holidays you get 4Mb downstream. All other times are 512Kb.

They are charging around ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£80pm for this I think.

The upstream is 400Kbps and it is a 50:1 contention service.

hawkmoon

03-07-2003, 11:53

Originally posted by Dazz285
Hi guys & gals,
I got this reply from Chris Collinson yesterday... only took 3 weeks to reply..

We had hoped to be able to launch the broadband service in your area some time ago. We have completed exhaustive tests on the network within the Harrow area and I can confirm that at the moment we have no plans to launch Broadband in your area. ntl:home will continue to invest in the network to enable us to provide more homes with a broadband service across London and I will be in touch with you as soon as there is any positive news. I can only apologise for any inconvenience this may be causing in relation to your current internet experience.

I sent a reply asking what the results of these exhaustive test were and also asked that if ntl are continuing to invest in the network then why are they not investing in Harrow?

As soon as I get a reply I'll post it..

:spin:

Well both of the STB's have managed to regain their IP address's and can see the UBR's. The second STB is holding at 56dBmV return power.

I don't know what the problem is in Harrow, but it is clear that most of the STB's I have seen are able to establish a connection with the UBR's and obtain an IP address.

rippedoff

03-07-2003, 12:58

Originally posted by bigitup_j
and. south london is supposedly is of better quality, so north london might have to wait a bit more. and it looks like the postcodes mentioned before are in southeast london, but i have heard of trials in southwest london (like lambeth and southwark). so looks like bye-bye dial-up and hello:wavey: bb in london very soon!

Let's hope so, but I ASK AGAIN... can anyone out there confirm or deny this in a semi-official capacity?
:rolleyes:

orangebird

03-07-2003, 13:00

Originally posted by rippedoff
Let's hope so, but I ASK AGAIN... can anyone out there confirm or deny this in a semi-official capacity?
:rolleyes:

Why don't you go and ask on Community and get an official answer?

binary

03-07-2003, 14:56

Because the forums at Community havn't launched yet. They won't be up and running for a couple of weeks.

See ashg's reply on this NTHW.com thread (http://www.nthellworld.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43974&perpage=15&pagenumber=2).

Gogogo

03-07-2003, 15:26

orangebird

03-07-2003, 16:45

Originally posted by binary
Because the forums at Community havn't launched yet. They won't be up and running for a couple of weeks.

See ashg's reply on this NTHW.com thread (http://www.nthellworld.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43974&perpage=15&pagenumber=2).

ok, go to nthw.com - maybe the clt team can help?

bigitup_j

03-07-2003, 16:50

maybe, that harrow can almost handle bb, but they are waiting until the rest of london is upgraded (and it seems south london is almost), possibly a few more months and BB to all in london!

binary

03-07-2003, 17:10

This is an ongoing issue orangebird, one being discussed in "Still waiting for London Broadband" (http://www.nthellworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=636).

There is some semi-official info there already, I hope that others in the know will continue to add to that. However is is not ntl's forte to give straight answers to this question.

Gogogo

03-07-2003, 17:35

Originally posted by orangebird
ok, go to nthw.com - maybe the clt team can help?

Orangebird this issue has been going in circles on the .com site for ages and at no time has anyone made the situation concerning BB in London clear. In anycase the .com site is almost dead.

:eek:

Gogogo

03-07-2003, 17:41

Originally posted by bigitup_j
maybe, that harrow can almost handle bb, but they are waiting until the rest of london is upgraded (and it seems south london is almost), possibly a few more months and BB to all in london!

If this is true and we need to see positive evidence of that then why on earth the big secret. Surely, some executive idiot at ntl is capable of making official annoucements: almost every other company which has plans for expansion announces forthcoming developments.

Anyway I would like to see an official announcement rather then kites.

:wavey:

bigitup_j

03-07-2003, 18:35

silly ntl. why don't they act like a normal company that is properly organised and actually can communicate.

micaAB

03-07-2003, 19:04

(ANGRY MAN)

well after reading all this i thought my put my bit in....

after being told by 3 ntl staff that my area (Bromley SE London) does not have broadband available and there are no projected dates, i decided to go for BTs BB.

that would mean that i would have to cancel my ntl phone line and get a BT one for the connection so...............

i phoned ntl to cancel my line and explained why and then i was told that broadband WAS available in my area. WHAT THE ....?

so i ordered the "ntl:home Broadband + Console for the PS2" service and to their credit the broadband was installed and working first time after just 2 days!!!! some of you must be as surprised as i was.....and like i said, it worked too.

(NOT SO ANGRY)

now since then I have spent over 4 hours on the phone being passed from pillar to post because as part of that poackage they should supply a hub, additional ethernet cables, and stuff but it still hasn't turned up.

(ANGRY AGAIN NOW)

whenever i phoned anyone at ntl customer services(?) i was told that ntl do not supply that sort of equipment, and i would be passed through to the console support team who would sort it out but then the console support team would tell me that they don't deal with orders and they would put me througt to another dept - and guess where i ended up? CUSTOMER SERVICE!!! who told me that they do not supply this type of equipment.

(BLOOD BOILING)

i've just got of the phone again (after 45 minutes) and finally sorted it all out, but only after asking the ntl custservs to look at this http://www.ntlworld.com/ps2/ and pleading with them that they now belive me that i was offered this service/equipment package and i would actually like it delivered.

the lady i finally got through to was finally very helpful after initially not beleiving me, but i expect a customer service team to have some idea of the products and services that their compnay supplies because if they how can they help.

i've been told it should be delivered in 2 days, but we shall see eh?

PS. one of the customer services huys got a bit upset and angry when i suggested that i'd been on the phone for over half an hour - "that just doesn't happen" iwas told.

binary

04-07-2003, 18:58

micaAB- it seems incompetance reigns at ntl. Maybe my area's got broadband now, they've just forgotten to tell anyone (including their sales people and the call centres)!

Thanks to whichever mod merged these threads, they were on the same topic. Though earlier posts do read a little confusingly now!

It'd be great to hear from people who have hard facts about broadband's arrival in areas in London, even if it is through such a bizarre way as micaAB above. :rolleyes:

micaAB

05-07-2003, 00:01

i must admit i feel a bit sorry for the guys who are on the other end of the phone @ customer services........it just seems like they are not kept up to date with the latest developments and services of their own company.

i don't blame the people.....i blame the company

it seems that ntl have the infrastructure in place but the project rollouts are so haphazard that they don't know what area to publish which areas have BB available.

still, it's working fine now and it's as fast as i expect bb 600K to be.

Gogogo

05-07-2003, 10:11

Originally posted by micaAB
i must admit i feel a bit sorry for the guys who are on the other end of the phone @ customer services........it just seems like they are not kept up to date with the latest developments and services of their own company. i don't blame the people.....i blame the company

In a nutshell, exactly the problem. CS people, some are ok and very helpful, but some know nothing and deliberately mislead customers. The responsibility lies at senior executive level in ntl it is someone's responsibilty to ensure front line staff are well-informed and not left to guess answers and indeed recruit quality staff. ntl executives are hopeless.

:wavey:

rippedoff

05-07-2003, 18:34

For those of you who do not know Orangebird form nthw.com, let me tell you.... she is a waste of space!

As to her suggestion by using the new community..... I posted a question on their emai facility on 3/7/03... got an automated reply listing all sorts of websites , but no answer.

As to nthw.com CLT.... has she not looked at this site for a number of years or what. Mention London / South London on that site and all goes quiet.........

I telephoned CS last Tuesday.... they do not have a clue.... said that even though I could not get CR3 or BB, I could get a stand alone cable modem for BB... I said NO I CAN'T... he said ... wait and I will find out.....he then came back and said...."you can not get BB in any shape or form where you are....and we don't have any idea when it will be available".

He was wrong.... if I went to BT, I would have a lot of BB choices...........

:D :confused: :D

rippedoff

05-07-2003, 18:38

Originally posted by bigitup_j
silly ntl. why don't they act like a normal company that is properly organised and actually can communicate.

Why? Because they are NOT a normal company that is properly organised and they cannot communicate.

:cry:

Mark W

05-07-2003, 18:49

Originally posted by rippedoff
[B]For those of you who do not know Orangebird form nthw.com, let me tell you.... she is a waste of space!

Think thats a little uncalled for mate :rolleyes:

As to her suggestion by using the new community..... I posted a question on their emai facility on 3/7/03... got an automated reply listing all sorts of websites , but no answer.

well, to be fair, how is she supposed to know exactly whats on there?

As to nthw.com CLT.... has she not looked at this site for a number of years or what. Mention London / South London on that site and all goes quiet.........

Probably because that conversation has been done to death in back?
I'm under the impression the general consensus is some areas of london dont have bb, and dont hold your breath getting it.
I know this angers some, but if you demand british airways fly a jumbo to timbuctoo 3 times a week, they are gonna say no - why? because its not economically viable for them to do so. The same applies to ntl im sure.

I telephoned CS last Tuesday.... they do not have a clue.... said that even though I could not get CR3 or BB, I could get a stand alone cable modem for BB... I said NO I CAN'T... he said ... wait and I will find out.....he then came back and said...."you can not get BB in any shape or form where you are....and we don't have any idea when it will be available".

aside from him faffing about a bit at the start, he DID go and get you a definitive answer, all be it not the one you wanted.

He was wrong.... if I went to BT, I would have a lot of BB choices...........

that leads to an obvious question......

Undisputedtruth

05-07-2003, 19:51

Originally posted by Mark W
Think thats a little uncalled for mate :rolleyes:

Not really, there is a long history of Orangebird running her mouth with little substance to back it up with.

well, to be fair, how is she supposed to know exactly whats on there?

If she doesn't know then it is better to keep her mouth shut.

Probably because that conversation has been done to death in back?
I'm under the impression the general consensus is some areas of london dont have bb, and dont hold your breath getting it.
I know this angers some, but if you demand british airways fly a jumbo to timbuctoo 3 times a week, they are gonna say no - why? because its not economically viable for them to do so. The same applies to ntl im sure.

No, the conversation of broadband in London was not done to death - it was closed by the moderators. There were attempts to resurrect the thread but the moderators yet again pulled the plug. The thread(s) was/were running since last year. I guess the threads were highly embarrasing to NTL. There is no evidence that London is uneconomical to upgrade whatsoever. It is not London's fault NTL had overspent or poorly manage their resources in other areas.

aside from him faffing about a bit at the start, he DID go and get you a definitive answer, all be it not the one you wanted.

that leads to an obvious question......

What definitive answer? There are suggestions that his area will shortly be upgraded soon. The obvious question that springs to mind is why is NTL are unable to communicate with their customers?

Mark W

05-07-2003, 20:34

Originally posted by Undisputedtruth Not really, there is a long history of Orangebird running her mouth with little substance to back it up with.

so you have common interests then?

If she doesn't know then it is better to keep her mouth shut.

hmmm...id hate to repeat myself

No, the conversation of broadband in London was not done to death - it was closed by the moderators. There were attempts to resurrect the thread but the moderators yet again pulled the plug. The thread(s) was/were running since last year. I
guess the threads were highly embarrasing to NTL. There is no evidence that London is uneconomical to upgrade whatsoever. It is not London's fault NTL had overspent or poorly manage their resources in other areas.

Oh, i must have been reading a different thread.
the one i was reading had lots of people going to GREAT lengths to give you the facts and figures you desired, and a reasoned explination as to why broadband was not availiable in your area, only for you to consistently say either "those are not the figures that i have" - tho you never gave those figures, or where you dreamt them up - or "thats not good enough, i demand EXACT figures", and you refusing to divulge why you required them.
then it went on to fibre, and you insisting how as the videotron network was subsidising the rest of ntl :rolleyes: you lot should be given fibre instead. then those same valliant souls tried to give a reasoned explination why this was not reasonable either, all of which you dismissed out of hand........
it was about then that i stopped reading what little you had to say......

I am sorry you cannot get broadband, i really am. but that does not change the fact you cant, and no amount of being rude to anyone on here remotley associated to ntl will change that.

grum1978

05-07-2003, 20:34

Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Not really, there is a long history of Orangebird running her mouth with little substance to back it up with.

:rolleyes:

Pot kettle and black spring to mind here UDT...

Me wonders why :rolleyes:

Gogogo

05-07-2003, 20:43

...I know this angers some, but if you demand british airways fly a jumbo to timbuctoo 3 times a week, they are gonna say no - why? because its not economically viable for them to do so. The same applies to ntl im sure...

British Airways, now that's a real company a really good one and ntl senior management could learn something from BA. I think it's more likely ntl would offer a jumbo 3 times a week for Timbuctoo and charge for it whether it flies or not!

Frankly, all customers in Greater London would like is to receive the services they are being charged for and customers elewhere enjoy. Greater London without doubt is a wealthy region with lots of wealthy customers. Surely, isn't it time somebody in authority at ntl made a public statement clearing up the issue of BB/interactive availability for customers in the region.

:wavey:

Tristan

05-07-2003, 22:29

Originally posted by Gogogo
British Airways, now that's a real company a really good one and ntl senior management could learn something from BA.

I can't work out whether this is sarcasm or not... are you aware of the financial state BA (and the rest of the full-service airline industry) is in? They're being murdered by the likes of EasyJet and RyanAir. But back on topic...

Customers do recieve the service they pay for, and conversely, pay only for the services they receive. Are you suggesting there are people in London who are being charged for broadband, but not getting it?

As to NTL making some sort of official statement, I couldn't agree more....

What you need is somebody like Drew from Digitalspy. He used to post on there regularly when NTL were rolling out broadband in other ex-CWC areas, letting us know the target dates and so forth. Whatever happened to that guy?

hawkmoon

05-07-2003, 22:36

Originally posted by Mark W
Think thats a little uncalled for mate :rolleyes:

I'm under the impression the general consensus is some areas of london dont have bb, and dont hold your breath getting it.
I know this angers some, but if you demand british airways fly a jumbo to timbuctoo 3 times a week, they are gonna say no - why? because its not economically viable for them to do so. The same applies to ntl im sure.

So you think it is "not economically viable" for NTL to offer BB in the capital of the UK. The ex-videotron areas account for around 1 million homes - although not all of these would have taken cable. This is still a very large potential market.

BT take the opposite view and that is why the London exchanges are pretty much the first to be upgraded.

Stuart

05-07-2003, 23:55

Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Not really, there is a long history of Orangebird running her mouth with little substance to back it up with.

If she doesn't know then it is better to keep her mouth shut.

I am sorry, it is uncalled for. Abusing people makes them less likely to want to help.

No, the conversation of broadband in London was not done to death - it was closed by the moderators. There were attempts to resurrect the thread but the moderators yet again pulled the plug. The thread(s) was/were running since last year. I guess the threads were highly embarrasing to NTL. There is no evidence that London is uneconomical to upgrade whatsoever. It is not London's fault NTL had overspent or poorly manage their resources in other areas.

No, it's not London's fault. The fact is though (and tough as it may be) that NTL are under the control of Bond holders. If the Bond holders say they have to cut costs, they HAVE to cut costs (even if it affect the service) because if the bond holders decide they want their money back (which as I understand it, they are entitled to do), NTL have to pay it even if it bankrupts the company. I have worked for a company that was under the control of Bond Holders, and I know for a fact that they will do that if their demands aren't met.

With the comms market the way it is, in the event of NTL going bankrupt), the network would probably be taken over and SHUT DOWN by BT and Sky, because Telewest are under the same financial constraints that NTL are.

Still, that doesn't account for Videotron, CWC and NTL not installing Broadband in London before the collapse of the comms market..

What definitive answer? There are suggestions that his area will shortly be upgraded soon. The obvious question that springs to mind is why is NTL are unable to communicate with their customers?

That is a good question. NTL don't seem to be generally able to communicate with customers (apart from those people that post on here and, for a while at least, on .com).

Stuart

06-07-2003, 00:01

Originally posted by hawkmoon
So you think it is "not economically viable" for NTL to offer BB in the capital of the UK. The ex-videotron areas account for around 1 million homes - although not all of these would have taken cable. This is still a very large potential market.

BT take the opposite view and that is why the London exchanges are pretty much the first to be upgraded.

Depends how much work the network needs, and how much it would cost to fix it.

Videotron did use cheap cable and cheap installers (see posts by BBKing and Escapee on .com for that info), and the quality of the network has degraded by all accounts. In some areas, it is not capable of carrying broadband data because the return path is not strong enough.

Anyway, aren't NTL currently upgrading the old Videotron areas? That is a rumour, but in the absence of any official comment, it is all we have.

Gogogo

06-07-2003, 06:36

Originally posted by scastle
...Anyway, aren't NTL currently upgrading the old Videotron areas? That is a rumour, but in the absence of any official comment, it is all we have.

"but in the absence of any official comment." How long must we wait for "any official comment" surely someone is capable of making an official statement concerning as someone said earlier the availability or non-availability of BB/interactive in the capital city of the UK possible Olympic city!

:wavey:

Undisputedtruth

06-07-2003, 13:09

Originally posted by Mark W
Oh, i must have been reading a different thread.
the one i was reading had lots of people going to GREAT lengths to give you the facts and figures you desired, and a reasoned explination as to why broadband was not availiable in your area, only for you to consistently say either "those are not the figures that i have" - tho you never gave those figures, or where you dreamt them up - or "thats not good enough, i demand EXACT figures", and you refusing to divulge why you required them.
then it went on to fibre, and you insisting how as the videotron network was subsidising the rest of ntl :rolleyes: you lot should be given fibre instead. then those same valliant souls tried to give a reasoned explination why this was not reasonable either, all of which you dismissed out of hand........
it was about then that i stopped reading what little you had to say......

Well I do not expect a NTL associate to get things right or even read things right!:D

Are you serious? Do you really expect me to take advice from "fedupwithntl". A man who cannot hardly spell much less convince me his figures were accurate. I can only imagine that Mark and fedupwithntl are on the same intellectual level. It is not unreasonable to ask for some accurate figures. Yes, I know the word "accuracy" is not in NTL's dictionary which is why they have a terrible record in sending out accurate bills.

There is some much bs from NTL that it is not unreasonable to listen to the likes of NTL associates. They don't know what goes on in their company, they have a awful record of customer services and know one believes a word they say. Is there any point listening to what an NTL associate says? If so, can you give me just one example?

I think NTL were far too embarrass to release the number of customers in London (Videotron). There has been a huge migration of customers leaving NTL (174,000) last year. NTL were unable to take advantage of the collapse of On Digital and if NTL did not have broadband, the number of customers leaving NTL would be far greater. Not to mention the fact customers are only willing to stay with NTL because they do not want to have a satellite dish on their property. Let's face it, we know NTL is awful, which is why there are a number of websites like this!:devsmoke:

Tristan

06-07-2003, 13:53

UDT, you're forgetting the first rule of debating. Don't insult your opponent. Rip what they're saying to peices, but getting personal is totally unnecessary.

Now as you know, this site has nothing to do with NTL. So any NTL associates posting on here are doing so in their own time, off their own backs, because they want to try and help us. Why start insulting them for doing that?

Mark has passed on what information he has. With respect to him, he's not high up in the company. He cannot be expected to produce all the facts and figures you demand. (In fact, I would go so far as to say that NTL cannot be expected to produce the figures you demand -- when was the last time you heard BT telling people how much is costs to convert an exchange to ADSL? They never give the exact figures.)

And as to you taking advice from a man who "cannot hardly spell"... :rolleyes:

There's one point thought that no-one has managed to counter yet. Broadband is NTL's most profitable product. It's the one they're marketting hardest nationally. They want broadband customers. With this in mind, the only possible explaination for not offering it in London is that it is uneconomic to upgrade the areas. Otherwise, why else would NTL be holding back?

bigitup_j

06-07-2003, 14:31

but how do we know ntl are holding back. they are probably waiting to get all of london upgraded, so as not to cause hell at customer services, trying to explain this bit of london is done, but accross the road there is no bb because...
the directors of ntl have been set (and have been setting) deadlines to get bb up and running in london by the end of this year. they have spent loads of money on upgrading london, but are just finishing off the job. a few more months, and londoners will be saying how great ntl bb is and how they could ever be so horrible to ntl! :)

binary

06-07-2003, 16:04

Whoah- this is all getting a bit bitchy! ;) Let's keep it cool.

As I'm one of the instigators of this discussion, please let me take the liberty outlining why this is still an issue, and what questions are still unanswered. Apologies for the lengthy post.

Mark W, I'm really glad you're on the forum providing some hard facts. However I do have to take you up on this comment (in a constructive rather than destructive way).
Originally posted by Mark W
...
Probably because that conversation has been done to death?
I'm under the impression the general consensus is some areas of London donÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡Ãƒâ€šÃ ‚Â¬ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¾Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢t have bb, and donÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡Ãƒâ€šÃ ‚Â¬ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¾Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢t hold your breath getting it.
...

I don't think the London broadband conversation has been done to death for reasons I'm about to explain.
My understanding of the London broadband issue is this:

(a) The Videotron network, as originally constructed, was of poor quality, and much of it is not in a fit state to support broadband. Additionally subsequent maintenance to it has been lacklustre.

(b) If upgraded, the network could carry broadband. However this is unlikely anytime soon as NTL has little money to upgrade the network.

If this was the end of the story then I'd accept that I would not get NTL broadband for a long time.

But...

(c) I have read a few times that there are plans to upgrade the London network to carry broadband, though this is always very vague.

(d) I received an email inviting me to be a member of a broadband trial in my area in November 2002. I was very busy at the time, so I never followed it up. However this does suggest that NTL were testing the resilience of their network, in my area at least (somewhere in Southwark), with a view to launching a full service.

(e) micaAB's post on the last page (post #41) suggests that NTL are launching broadband in London in places where people had given up on waiting. Indeed micaAB had given up on NTL, rang to cancel his service, and was then told that broadband had launched in the area!

The reason I'm hanging on for NTL broadband is that I think it'll be a more flexible service than ADSL (with the choice of different speeds up to 1MB). Plus I think that overall, with a phone line & pay television, NTL comes in cheaper than the BT/ Sky/ ADSL ISP combination.
(And I'm not keen on Murdoch/ BSkyB becoming the pay TV gatekeeper of the digital future, so wish to support competition).

I have access to fast net access elsewhere, otherwise I would have already exercised my consumer choice by switching to BT & ADSL.

Perhaps all NTL is doing is keeping up the facade that broadband is coming imminently to areas in London, in order to hold on to customers such as myself. (Then perhaps eventually once they have the resources NTL will upgrade the network for broadband.)

What I would like from an informed source is a straight answer on whether some areas in London will not be getting broadband for years because of the dodgy network.

Then we will know for sure, and can stop moaning here about the wait for NTL broadband. :)

Undisputedtruth

06-07-2003, 16:42

Originally posted by binary

I don't think the London broadband conversation has been done to death for reasons I'm about to explain.
My understanding of the London broadband issue is this:

I fully agree - the subject was getting embarrassing for NTL. There was some determination from the mods to close the long running thread.

(a)he Videotron network, as originally constructed, was of poor quality, and much of it is not in a fit state to support broadband. Additionally subsequent maintenance to it has been lacklustre.

If that is the case - then why is bb being rolled in one of Videotron's oldest network?

(c) I have read a few times that there are plans to upgrade the London network to carry broadband, though this is always very vague.

What I would like from an informed source is a straight answer on whether some areas in London will not be getting broadband for years because of the dodgy network.

Then we will know for sure, and can stop moaning here about the wait for NTL broadband. :) [/B]

Undisputedtruth

06-07-2003, 16:47

Originally posted by binary

I don't think the London broadband conversation has been done to death for reasons I'm about to explain.
My understanding of the London broadband issue is this:

I fully agree - the subject was getting embarrassing for NTL. There was some determination from the mods to close the long running thread.

(a)he Videotron network, as originally constructed, was of poor quality, and much of it is not in a fit state to support broadband. Additionally subsequent maintenance to it has been lacklustre.

If that is the case - then why is bb being rolled in one of Videotron's oldest part of the network?

(c) I have read a few times that there are plans to upgrade the London network to carry broadband, though this is always very vague.

What I would like from an informed source is a straight answer on whether some areas in London will not be getting broadband for years because of the dodgy network.

Then we will know for sure, and can stop moaning here about the wait for NTL broadband. :)

I guess this is NTL's way of confusing their customers in London. This has backfired in NTL's face. This has enhanced NTL reputation as a company full of spin, deception and a joke.

Mark W

06-07-2003, 17:00

just to let you know, ill not be posting in this thread again.

if i get confirmed info, like those new postcode areas getting bb, then ill be sure to let you all know as soon as i do, but i refuse to enter into a conversation with someone who dismisses what he hears out of hand if it does not conform to his personal mindset. I tried, and failed, in the past to give a reasoned explination as i could giving the facts that i have only to be belittled for it.

ill not be making the same mistake twice.

oh, and for what it is worth, i fully agree that ntl sould give a clearer idea what areas will, might and wont be getting bb in the near,middle and distant future. however, i draw a line at it being a 'conspiracy' :rolleyes:

binary

06-07-2003, 17:16

Hi Mark W- I hope I'm not the one to whom your fire is directed at!

I think I must have missed some of the past explainations as to why areas in London havn't yet got broadband.

There is of course no conspiracy!

I, for one, will appreciate any further posts giving further postcodes, that's most helpful.

binary :cool:

P.S. Undisputedtruth- watch out for doing double postings, it's most confusing. And even more confusing if you were to delete one of them now, as any subsequent replies will dissapear (so pls don't delete either of them). ;)

Undisputedtruth

06-07-2003, 17:20

Originally posted by Mark W

if i get confirmed info, like those new postcode areas getting bb, then ill be sure to let you all know as soon as i do, but i refuse to enter into a conversation with someone who dismisses what he hears out of hand if it does not conform to his personal mindset. I tried, and failed, in the past to give a reasoned explination as i could giving the facts that i have only to be belittled for it.

Goodbye. :D

There has been times when I listened to people like Mark and other NTL associates. That was over three years ago. Has things change? No, they are still full of BS and this latest stunt to try and get the upper hand on me is laughable indeed. My only regret is that I should of dismissed what these Guys were saying three years. Of course, they be saying give us a chance. Yes, a new chance every year just to suit their mindset. These guys deserve nothing more than contempt.

bigitup_j

06-07-2003, 17:24

cruel. that is all i have to say, don't blame them blame ntl for confusing everyone including their staff.

Undisputedtruth

06-07-2003, 17:25

Originally posted by binary

P.S. Undisputedtruth- watch out for doing double postings, it's most confusing. And even more confusing if you were to delete one of them now, as any subsequent replies will dissapear (so pls don't delete either of them). ;)

Sorry, there were problems with my internet connection. I even lost a reply to Tristan where I was stating that I was not insulting Mark but stating facts.

I also note how NTL associates are willing to give it but unable to take take, so they run off like "cry babies". :D

Mark W

06-07-2003, 17:31

Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Goodbye. :D

There has been times when I listened to people like Mark and other NTL associates. That was over three years ago. Has things change? No, they are still full of BS and this latest stunt to try and get the upper hand on me is laughable indeed. My only regret is that I should of dismissed what these Guys were saying three years. Of course, they be saying give us a chance. Yes, a new chance every year just to suit their mindset. These guys deserve nothing more than contempt.

:rolleyes:
no binary, as you can see from above i was not referring to you. you have always been even minded and polite to me, thanks :)

I also note how NTL associates are willing to give it but unable to take take, so they run off like "cry babies".

give it? please tell me where ive been insulting?

Undisputedtruth

06-07-2003, 18:02

Originally posted by Mark W

give it? please tell me where ive been insulting?

Post # 47

Mark W

06-07-2003, 18:13

Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Post # 47

:confused:

i have read and reread that post, and would appreciate you enlightening me where exactly i was insulting in it?

Undisputedtruth

06-07-2003, 18:48

Perhaps, you care to point where exactly have I insulted you.

Mark W

06-07-2003, 18:58

Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Perhaps, you care to point where exactly have I insulted you.

ill take the fact you cant reply to my question toi mean i wasnt insulting afterall?

your turn.....

post 57 -
Are you serious? Do you really expect me to take advice from "fedupwithntl". A man who cannot hardly spell much less convince me his figures were accurate. I can only imagine that Mark and fedupwithntl are on the same intellectual level.

insinuating i have a lack of inteligence

post 57 -
There is some much bs from NTL that it is not unreasonable to listen to the likes of NTL associates. They don't know what goes on in their company, they have a awful record of customer services and know one believes a word they say. Is there any point listening to what an NTL associate says

apart from the irony that this was in the same post you insult someone else from not being able to spell, that is hardly pleasant is it?

post 65 -
There has been times when I listened to people like Mark and other NTL associates. That was over three years ago. Has things change? No, they are still full of BS and this latest stunt to try and get the upper hand on me is laughable indeed. My only regret is that I should of dismissed what these Guys were saying three years. Of course, they be saying give us a chance. Yes, a new chance every year just to suit their mindset. These guys deserve nothing more than contempt.

id say that just about defines the meaning of trollish/insulting behaviour - perhaps you might like to look at the terms and conditions regarding insulting other members?

Gogogo

06-07-2003, 19:04

May I appeal to all to be nice to all on this thread. This thread is designed to obtain information of assistance to all in the Greater London region inrelation to BB/Interactive/Enhanced TV and being rude to ntl staff is not helpful.

Please keep things cool.

:wavey:

Mick

06-07-2003, 19:05

Can we please not argue. No insults please. Remember throwing abuse at one another will not be tolerated here.

Undisputedtruth

06-07-2003, 19:08

Mark you are being oversensitive here.

I merely remarked that you and fedupwithntl probably think on the same level. Is that so insulting? Or do you think fedupwithntl is actually stupid which is the reason why you are so upset.

There is no direct insult to you. I would say you'll need to act more professional in future.

Yes, I do find your remarks insulting and does not paint an accurate picture of what I am saying. Can't be bothered to waste my time to proof a point to you.

Undisputedtruth

grum1978

06-07-2003, 19:10

Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Mark you are being oversensitive here.

I merely remarked that you and fedupwithntl probably think on the same level. Is that so insulting? Or do you think fedupwithntl is actually stupid which is the reason why you are so upset.

There is no direct insult to you. I would say you'll need to act more professional in future.

Yes, I do find your remarks insulting and does not paint an accurate picture of what I am saying. Can't be bothered to waste my time to proof a point to you.

Undisputedtruth

:confused:

More professional!?!?

Its a forum for goodness sake and Mark is posting here in no capacity other than expressing his own opinions :rolleyes:

Mark W

06-07-2003, 19:12

Originally posted by grum1978
:confused:

More professional!?!?

Its a forum for goodness sake and Mark is posting here in no capacity other than expressing his own opinions :rolleyes:

lol, dont worry about it, someone is orbiting his own planet.

i think my reasons for not posting here have been fully vindicated...

Undisputedtruth

06-07-2003, 19:12

Originally posted by grum1978
:confused:

More professional!?!?

Its a forum for goodness sake and Mark is posting here in no capacity other than expressing his own opinions :rolleyes:

Another troll to the rescue of Mark.

Mark defending Orangebird

Tristan defending Mark

Mick

06-07-2003, 19:14

Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Another troll to the rescue of Mark.

Mark defending Orangebird

Tristan defending Mark

Enough please, either bring this thread back on the subject or I may have to close this thread for a short period. Its simple we do not want members to argue and disrupt the natural flow of discussion within this or any thread.

There is better ways to hold a debate without throwing insults around. :)

th'engineer

06-07-2003, 19:14

Could there bea common theme here employees not customers:D

Mark W

06-07-2003, 19:19

oh, one little thing - i mistyped a post - when i said i felt he was insinuating i had a lack of inteligence, i mean he was insinuating about me AND fedup....

sorry fedup, i really dont think you are dumb!! ;) :beer:

Undisputedtruth

06-07-2003, 19:45

Originally posted by Mark W
oh, one little thing - i mistyped a post - when i said i felt he was insinuating i had a lack of inteligence, i mean he was insinuating about me AND fedup....

sorry fedup, i really dont think you are dumb!! ;) :beer:

Me insinuating. More like Mark is imagining again.

Russ

06-07-2003, 20:04

Originally posted by Dr. Plummer

There is better ways to hold a debate without throwing insults around. :)

Yes, it involves food-fights :D

C'mon people, let's settle down and keep this thread a good healthy one, I'm enjoying it. Insults and petty tit-for-tat arguments are dragging it down.

binary

06-07-2003, 20:09

Originally posted by Russ D
...let's settle down...
Hear hear. I'm interested in the issue, full stop. This is getting silly.

Undisputedtruth

07-07-2003, 00:19

I've placed an order last week with Zen ADSL and at the moment considering terminating my NTL account. If I could get CNBC from freeview then it would be au revoir NTL. NTL staff are so unprofessional.

Stuart

07-07-2003, 01:17

One of my friends, who left NTL because he was angry about the Broadband situation has recently (a couple of days ago) got a letter telling him Broadband is now available in his area, and asking would he like to apply? The area is Grove Park (near Lewisham). The availability checker says it's not available, but that is sometimes wrong anyway (My boss had broadband for over a year at his flat, and all that time the availability checker said it wasn't available).

Of course, if the letter was sent in error, it wouldn't be the first time.

bigitup_j

07-07-2003, 08:12

well maybe ntl just need to update their data base.

Mick

07-07-2003, 08:45

Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
<snip> NTL staff are so unprofessional.

Im sorry I disagree, you are tarnishing all employees with the same brush. There are some good ntl employees out there, just because you have had bad experiences with a few, shouldn't give you the right to make such an invalid statement.

Lets get this thread back on topic please which is 'London Broadband.' :)

orangebird

07-07-2003, 09:00

Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
I've placed an order last week with Zen ADSL and at the moment considering terminating my NTL account. If I could get CNBC from freeview then it would be au revoir NTL. NTL staff are so unprofessional.

Of course they are....all 13000 of them, which I'm sure you have had the misfortune to meet, every single on of them :rolleyes:

rippedoff

07-07-2003, 11:16

Originally posted by Mark W
just to let you know, ill not be posting in this thread again.

Good news!..... now, after making around 5 posts after making this statement, maybe now you have stopped!:wavey:

Anyway... I thought that with this new site, we might be able to raise the London question without being bombarded with negative stuff like ' this issue has been done to death' etc. but, no, this site is just as bad and anti-London as the last.
:mad:

Mick

07-07-2003, 12:20

orangebird

07-07-2003, 12:24

Originally posted by rippedoff
Good news!..... now, after making around 5 posts after making this statement, maybe now you have stopped!:wavey:

Anyway... I thought that with this new site, we might be able to raise the London question without being bombarded with negative stuff like ' this issue has been done to death' etc. but, no, this site is just as bad and anti-London as the last.
:mad:

What's with the attitude? Why are you so pleased that someone who could help is no longer posting? It's not fair that you & others like UDT get abusive/rude/insulting just because when you ask questions, you don't always hear what you want to.

No-one here is anti London - the facts are that there are no dates yet, and no-one can supply you with them, end of. The 'done to death' feeling is only because the whole london thing just goes round an round in circles. I know it's crap and I know there are many customers in London that want BB/Interactive etc. But, getting angry and abusive to ntl staff on here is not going to get you any further in your cause.

hawkmoon

07-07-2003, 12:51

Originally posted by scastle
Depends how much work the network needs, and how much it would cost to fix it.

Videotron did use cheap cable and cheap installers (see posts by BBKing and Escapee on .com for that info), and the quality of the network has degraded by all accounts. In some areas, it is not capable of carrying broadband data because the return path is not strong enough.

Anyway, aren't NTL currently upgrading the old Videotron areas? That is a rumour, but in the absence of any official comment, it is all we have.

According to Chris Collinson they have done tests in Harrow and will not be upgrading for the foreseeable future.

This is rather odd because most STB's I have seen in Harrow have a return path and obtain an IP from the UBR's in Acton. My STB is currently sitting here with a return path, an IP address and a status of no-bia.cm.

Personally if I had a potential customer base of 1 million households I would be making the upgrades of those areas top priority.

hawkmoon

07-07-2003, 12:55

Originally posted by bigitup_j
but how do we know ntl are holding back. they are probably waiting to get all of london upgraded, so as not to cause hell at customer services, trying to explain this bit of london is done, but accross the road there is no bb because...
the directors of ntl have been set (and have been setting) deadlines to get bb up and running in london by the end of this year. they have spent loads of money on upgrading london, but are just finishing off the job. a few more months, and londoners will be saying how great ntl bb is and how they could ever be so horrible to ntl! :)

If this is the case then why is NTL's head of marketing saying that they have no plans to launch BB in Harrow?

rippedoff

07-07-2003, 13:02

Originally posted by orangebird
What's with the attitude? Why are you so pleased that someone who could help is no longer posting? It's not fair that you & others like UDT get abusive/rude/insulting just because when you ask questions, you don't always hear what you want to.

No-one here is anti London - the facts are that there are no dates yet, and no-one can supply you with them, end of. The 'done to death' feeling is only because the whole london thing just goes round an round in circles. I know it's crap and I know there are many customers in London that want BB/Interactive etc. But, getting angry and abusive to ntl staff on here is not going to get you any further in your cause.

If ntl staff came on here with anything useful to say about the London issue, then fair enough. But if they come on (like you) and say absolutely nothing helpful, then they should just shut up and stay out of the thread if they do not like it. The same applies to anyone else... if you do not want to hear or read any more about the London issue then do not read the thread
- it is that simple. Nobody forces you to read this thread, but of course some of you wouldn't be happy unless you made your negative comments.
:grind: :grind:

orangebird

07-07-2003, 13:10

Originally posted by rippedoff
If ntl staff came on here with anything useful to say about the London issue, then fair enough. But if they come on (like you) and say absolutely nothing helpful, then they should just shut up and stay out of the thread if they do not like it. The same applies to anyone else... if you do not want to hear or read any more about the London issue then do not read the thread
- it is that simple. Nobody forces you to read this thread, but of course some of you wouldn't be happy unless you made your negative comments.
:grind: :grind:

I haven't made negative comments and I haven't complainied at all about the London issue being brought up again. I merely pointed out that if you don't like what you hear, you just come back abusive and bolshy - as above :rolleyes:

The reason you have the hump is because no-one can tell you that your area is going to receive BB/Interactive etc. Is that an excuse to be rude to people?

rippedoff

07-07-2003, 13:35

Originally posted by orangebird
I haven't made negative comments and I haven't complainied at all about the London issue being brought up again. I merely pointed out that if you don't like what you hear, you just come back abusive and bolshy - as above :rolleyes:

The reason you have the hump is because no-one can tell you that your area is going to receive BB/Interactive etc. Is that an excuse to be rude to people?

and you think this latest contribution to the thread is useful ?
:confused:

orangebird

07-07-2003, 13:41

Originally posted by rippedoff
and you think this latest contribution to the thread is useful ?
:confused:

No - what about yours? :shrug:

Mick

07-07-2003, 13:46

Im not being funny or harsh by asking for members to keep this thread on topic, I have asked a few times now. I will not ask again.

This is a discussion forum not a slanging match.

orangebird

07-07-2003, 13:53

Originally posted by Dr. Plummer
Im not being funny or harsh by asking for members to keep this thread on topic, I have asked a few times now. I will not ask again.

This is a discussion forum not a slanging match.

Please accept my apologies Dr Plummer - shall refrain from now on. Just a tip - if you don't want a slanging macth to occur, try to mod the personal insults/name calling in the first place :)

Mick

07-07-2003, 14:25

Originally posted by orangebird
Please accept my apologies Dr Plummer - shall refrain from now on. Just a tip - if you don't want a slanging macth to occur, try to mod the personal insults/name calling in the first place :)

If you look in the thread thats exactly what I have been doing thanks. Can I give you a tip if you have a problem with a specific post please report it, do not join in on the name calling/arguements bandwagon its simple report it and then ignore it. :)

binary

07-07-2003, 14:26

Originally posted by Dr. Plummer
This is a discussion forum not a slanging match.
Absolutely. I take a somewhat different approach to this than undisputedtruth and rippedoff. I think it is helpful having NTL 'insiders' on the forums.

I too am frustrated with NTL, but I think some of that frustration comes from my dealings with them at the time of the 'ntlworld unmetered internet for ex-C&W customers' fiasco.

I pointed that out on this NTHW.com thread (http://www.nthellworld.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33131) (post #11), of which this is an excerpt:
Originally posted by binary on NTHW.com
I think I know where the hostility to NTL has come from though. NTL used the excuse that their phone lines could not support ntlworld unmetered dial-up, at least to me.

Which was a lie. The phone lines could support internet dial-up, but NTL hadn't sorted out sufficient interconnections between the C&W and the NTL networks, or sufficient dial-up capacity.

To me (and others) it seemed like they were playing a waiting game, with the intention of trying to get London customers straight onto broadband without giving us unmetered ntlworld dial-up.

If they had given us broadband then, then we'd all be happy.

Instead they eventually, reluctantly, let us ex-C&W Londoners onto ntlworld unmetered (at the time it was still free), though they tried to avoid it (they failed to send out a sign-up CDROM until hasseled). Then, as soon as we had unmetered ntlworld for free, an announcement was made that NTL was to start charging for it.

There was so much subterfuge from CSR's at this time, many many NTL customers I know became very peeved. There were many outright lies told.

And it seems that we're getting more promises that eventually we'll get broadband. I wish NTL would just admit that, in all likelyhood, many areas in London will not get broadband for a long long time. And they'll only get it after some expensive network upgrades have been carried out, including rewiring under streets.
In post #60 did take Mark W to task on his comment that this issue had been done to death.

Mark W's response to that was perfectly reasonable:
Originally posted by Mark W (post #63 of this thread)
oh, and for what it is worth, i fully agree that ntl sould give a clearer idea what areas will, might and wont be getting bb in the near,middle and distant future. however, i draw a line at it being a 'conspiracy' :rolleyes:

The questions I have asked have not so far been answered, which is why I think this is still a live issue. However I accept that many NTL 'insiders' such as Mark W and orangebird simply don't know the definitive answer to that. Mark W has made this clear here:
Originally posted by Mark W (post #23 of this thread)
To be honest, i cant answer that. not WONT, cant.

I fix peoples connection to the internet, sort their pc settings and help with their email and webspace - and a few other bits and bobs.

I'd probably be the last person to be told about whats being done in london, and i certainly dont know what is being planned.

As im not in control of the facts, im not prepared to speculate, sorry binary
They are good enough to provide us with information they know about.

It'd be great if someone on this forum was able to answer the questions I posed in post #60. But accept that it's possible no-one here can, and as in the case of micaAB (post #43) I know I'll be able to get broadband when I'm sold it (and it's been succesfully installed).

Much of these communications problems are the fault of NTL management. At the end of the day though, there is no conspiracy to deny Londoner's broadband- it is, after all, where NTL will be making a lot of their money. NTL, however, is in a bad financial position to invest much money in comprehensive network upgrades, at least for the moment.

Gogogo

07-07-2003, 16:27

Originally posted by rippedoff
... if you do not want to hear or read any more about the London issue then do not read the thread
- it is that simple. Nobody forces you to read this thread, but of course some of you wouldn't be happy unless you made your negative comments.
:grind: :grind:

Ripped off or whatever you are, this thread is not your personal property. Anyone with an interest in the subject ntl staff or not are welcome. You should adopt a more mature attitude and grow up.

:eek:

orangebird

07-07-2003, 16:56

Originally posted by binary
<snip>At the end of the day though, there is no conspiracy to deny Londoner's broadband- it is, after all, where NTL will be making a lot of their money. NTL, however, is in a bad financial position to invest much money in comprehensive network upgrades, at least for the moment.

Binary, you little treasure - why can't everyone be as rational and reasonable as you? :)

bigitup_j

07-07-2003, 17:14

well seeing that last week the grove park area (south london, by lewisham) has started offering bb, i can see more areas gaining this service.

Escapee

07-07-2003, 18:56

binary saidNTL, however, is in a bad financial position to invest much money in comprehensive network upgrades, at least for the moment.

orangebird saidBinary, you little treasure - why can't everyone be as rational and reasonable as you?

That's funny orangebird, I made exactly the same comment some months ago about upgrades with info that came from the department that deals with them.
An ntl employee (not yourself) called me a liar;) Then contradicted themselves some weeks later with a post that was similar to my lies:rolleyes:

I sometimes think the customer facing employees get upset when they find people outside the company know whats going on before they do:D

I would of thought someone with knowledge of the London HFC network would be able to explain why some areas can and some can't get the service, I know from speaking to some of the tech's up there that the infrastructure was very strange in some areas.
I know that analogue TV for some areas were injected from hubsites in another area etc, I think it was a bit of a mish mash.

Undisputedtruth

07-07-2003, 19:58

Originally posted by rippedoff
If ntl staff came on here with anything useful to say about the London issue, then fair enough. But if they come on (like you) and say absolutely nothing helpful, then they should just shut up and stay out of the thread if they do not like it. The same applies to anyone else... if you do not want to hear or read any more about the London issue then do not read the thread
- it is that simple. Nobody forces you to read this thread, but of course some of you wouldn't be happy unless you made your negative comments.
:grind: :grind:

I fully agree. One of the main problems about the London broadband thread on on nthw.com were people from NTL with their negative comments and the abusive anti-London brigade. The anti-London brigade had no interest in London whatsoever.

Admin Edit:-No personal attacks please.

[Edit typo]

Russ

07-07-2003, 20:00

Enough - I know the rules on here are more relaxed than on .com but that does NOT mean we're going to allow this name-calling to continue. Any further insults from anyone will lead to posts being edited.

Dazz285

07-07-2003, 20:31

OK guys and gals... How about this then....
Can anyone give us any information on BB roll outs in the london area over the next 12 months??

I bet you can't......

I got this from Chris Collinson the other day and it seems to me that he contradicks (excuse the spelling) himself????

"We had hoped to be able to launch the broadband service in your area sometime ago. We have completed exhaustive tests on the network within the Harrow area and I can confirm that at the moment we have no plans to launch Broadband in your area. ntl:home will continue to invest in the network to enable us to provide more homes with a broadband service across London and I will be in touch with you as soon as there is any positive news."
I'm still waiting for an answer to a few questions and as soon as he replies I'll post them...

Gogogo

07-07-2003, 20:40

Originally posted by Dazz285
OK guys and gals... How about this then....
Can anyone give us any information on BB roll outs in the london area over the next 12 months??.... We have completed exhaustive tests on the network within the Harrow area and I can confirm that at the moment we have no plans to launch Broadband in your area. ntl:home will continue to invest in the network to enable us to provide more homes with a broadband service across London and I will be in touch with you as soon as there is any positive news."
I'm still waiting for an answer to a few questions and as soon as he replies I'll post them...

At last away from all those silly, negative bickering postings by udt & ro. At least you have reminded everyone what this is about.

The words "ntl:home will continue to invest in the network to enable us to provide more homes with a broadband service across London" seems to contradict the belief that ntl is not contributing funds to upgrade the network in London. So are we to believe now that funds for development are being used and that the money is there after all! Comments from ntl contacts please.

:wavey:

Undisputedtruth

07-07-2003, 22:20

Originally posted by Andre
Why doesn't everyone who this affects just contact him and ask him then?

chris.slattery@ntl.com

I think it has something to do with receiving BS answer. Straight question - BS reply.

binary

08-07-2003, 07:35

Originally posted by bigitup_j
well seeing that last week the grove park area (south london, by lewisham) has started offering bb, i can see more areas gaining this service.

This sums up why I'm still interested in the NTL London broadband issue- areas that you think may never get broadband and are ready to give up on are suddenly live for broadband service! From what I've read before, I'm led to believe much of the Videotron network is a patchwork quilt of good and bad, some of it capable of supporting broadband, some of it not (at least without an expensive upgrade/ rewiring).

At least NTL are gradually rolling out broadband where it'll work on the pre-existing Videotron network. As far as I can work out though, upgrades/ rewiring of bad pathes in the network is not happening at the moment, nor are there imminent plans for it to happen.

Originally posted by Escapee
...
I would of thought someone with knowledge of the London HFC network would be able to explain why some areas can and some can't get the service, I know from speaking to some of the tech's up there that the infrastructure was very strange in some areas.
I know that analogue TV for some areas were injected from hubsites in another area etc, I think it was a bit of a mish mash.

It'd be great if someone with knowledge of the London network could post some technical information here.

(As an aside, what does HFC stand for?)

What I'd really like (and many others would too) is to be told of whether the network in their area is any good. However I'm somewhat resigned to the fact that I'll only find this out if NTL ever offer broadband locally. (I'm sure they will eventually, but I'm not waiting 10 years!)

Mr_Burns

08-07-2003, 11:56

Originally posted by binary

(As an aside, what does HFC stand for?)

[/i]

Hybrid Fibre-Coax

bigitup_j

08-07-2003, 17:41

ntl are probably working on the 'easy' bits of the london network, the bits that need minimal money spent on. then they will move on to more expensive and involved parts of london.
well that's my theory, and seems quite probable.

Dazz285

08-07-2003, 17:52

Wouldn't it be nice though to know what areas they are working on...
How about a list of London areas that have bb and those that don't...
That way we can all weigh up the pro's and con's

hawkmoon

08-07-2003, 19:07

Originally posted by Gogogo
At last away from all those silly, negative bickering postings by udt & ro. At least you have reminded everyone what this is about.

The words "ntl:home will continue to invest in the network to enable us to provide more homes with a broadband service across London" seems to contradict the belief that ntl is not contributing funds to upgrade the network in London. So are we to believe now that funds for development are being used and that the money is there after all! Comments from ntl contacts please.

:wavey:

Unfortunately Chris Collinson made roughly the same statement 6 months ago.

Half a year later and he is still making the same statement whilst there is no clear evidence that the parts that really need the upgrading are getting it. In fact according to that statement - some of the areas won't be getting any investment for a while.

hawkmoon

08-07-2003, 19:13

Originally posted by Andre
Why doesn't everyone who this affects just contact him and ask him then?

chris.slattery@ntl.com

Been there done that - e-mailed aizad hussain who copied Slattery into the reply asking him to personally respond to me, Mr Slattery completely failed to do this.

Have tried to e-mail him on numerous occassions before and never once got a reply.

I only got a letter out of Chris Collinson because I got my MP involved. Mr Slattery promised then that the much needed upgrades to the Harrow area would happen before the end of the year - now in his latest statement it appears that this might not happen after all.

Undisputedtruth

08-07-2003, 21:35

Originally posted by Escapee
I sometimes think the customer facing employees get upset when they find people outside the company know whats going on before they do:D

this is so true. Erm, let me count the number of times an NTL has helped me. None. They are not very useful at all.

I can remember when I read an article in the FT about job losses in NTL. The girl on customer services said to me that I should not believe everything in the newspapers and that their jobs are perfectly secure. Four weeks later, NTL announced large job losses. With NTL, anything negative about NTL is more than likely to be true.

Undisputedtruth

bomber

08-07-2003, 22:06

Right......!!!

I might get booted off for this but I think it has to be said! I am an SE24 (South London) NTL'er that has been fobbed off with this lame 'lack of BB' excuse for nearly 2 years.

Late May this year I had had enough, and I bit the bullet and decided to go for Sky/BT/ADSL as when you price it all up, it all comes to the same cost, give or take few quid. Also I have issues with Universal Remote Controls and the Pace STB that NTL use, that are not a problem with the Sky STB...... but thats another issue.....

Saturday (late May), I call NTL CS to cancel my NTL TV/Phone account before I order BT line and Sky and....... they're not open! (Only Mon-Fri to close an account). What the hell, I think, I will order my BT line anyway, I do this and I ask for my NTL tel number to be ported to my new BT line..... "not a problem!" BT say. Great! Tuesday I will call NTL and cancel my account.

Tuesday comes, I call NTL CS to cancel my account (30 mins on hold - I'm cynically inclined to believe this is a tactical ploy) and CS tell me that they can see my tel number has been earmarked for going over to BT and "why do you want to leave NTL Mr Brown?" I tell them the truth, I'm fed up with no broadband, and it is not viable to have a BT line installed (at my cost of installation and monthly rent) for ADSL when I have perfectly good NTL phone line that I sadly cannot ADSL on. Therefore I will get Sky and BT, discard NTL.

"OK Mr Brown, perhaps we can come to some arrangement if you would like to continue your NTL account?" came the response from CS.

I took them up on the offer and effectively now I do not pay for the rent on this BT line (of which I have ADSL now with www.zen.co.uk) and I am no worst off if I had NTL TV/BB or Sky/BT/ADSL finacially. I would rather not go into details of what discounts I have as they might not apply globally.....needless to say I have been a loyal NTL customer at 2 addresses, paid my bills on time and I have a average TV package....

Go figure? Its worked for me... perhaps other South Londoners might be able to benefit?

Bomber

orangebird

08-07-2003, 22:10

Originally posted by bomber
Right......!!!

I might get booted off for this but I think it has to be said! I am an SE24 (South London) NTL'er that

has been fobbed off with this lame 'lack of BB' excuse for nearly 2 years.

Late May this year I had had enough, and I bit the bullet and decided to go for Sky/BT/ADSL as when you

price it all up, it all comes to the same cost, give or take few quid. Also I have issues with Universal

Remote Controls and the Pace STB that NTL use, that are not a problem with the Sky STB...... but thats

another issue.....

Saturday (late May), I call NTL CS to cancel my NTL TV/Phone account before I order BT line and Sky

and....... they're not open! (Only Mon-Fri to close an account).

What the hell, I think, I will order my BT line anyway, I do this and I ask for my NTL tel number to be

ported to my new BT line..... "not a problem!" BT say. Great! Tuesday I will call NTL and cancel my

account.

Tuesday comes, I call NTL CS to cancel my account (30 mins on hold - I'm cynically inclined to believe

this is a tactical ploy) and CS tell me that they can see my tel number has been earmarked for going over

to BT and "why do you want to leave NTL Mr Brown?" I tell them the truth, I'm fed up with no broadband,

and it is not viable to have a BT line installed (at my cost of installation and monthly rent) for ADSL

when I have perfectly good NTL phone line that I sadly cannot ADSL on. Therefore I will get Sky and BT,

discard NTL.

"OK Mr Brown, perhaps we can come to some arrangement if you would like to continue your NTL account?"

came the response from CS.

I took them up on the offer and effectively now I do not pay for the rent on this BT line (of which I

have ADSL now with www.zen.co.uk) and I am no worst off if I had NTL TV/BB or Sky/BT/ADSL finacially. I

would rather not go into details of what discounts I have as they might not apply globally.....needless

to say I have been a loyal NTL customer at 2 addresses, paid my bills on time and I have a average TV

package....

Go figure? Its worked for me... perhaps other South Londoners might be able to benefit?

Bomber

Yeah, great - makes good sense that.....screw ntl for more discounts so they can earn even less money to be able to invest in making london bb & interactive able...... foot/shoot etc.....and even if ntl do manage to enable the area, if you're already happy with other provider services plus a freebie/discounted line, you won't want to change to ntl anyway!!!!!! :erm: :rolleyes:

bomber

08-07-2003, 22:20

Originally posted by orangebird
Yeah, great - makes good sense that.....screw ntl for more discounts so they can earn even less money to be able to invest in making london bb & interactive able...... foot/shoot etc.....

I see your point OB, but!!!!!.... do NTL want to get ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£20 odd quid (less the discount) from me a month via the TV/Tel package?....... for, lets face it, absolutely FA!! (infrastructure is already in place).... or lose a customer and have ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£20 less a month and have the hassle of collecting the STB?

The TV infrastructure is there aleady so NTL aren't (IMHO) bothered about potential BB users in South London.... and cynically I reckon that NTL are resting on their laurels in that South Londoners are too apethetic to switch to Sky/BT/ADSL

I ask you?

Bomber

orangebird

08-07-2003, 22:24

Originally posted by bomber
I see your point OB, but!!!!!.... do NTL want to get ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£20 odd quid (less the discount) from me a month via the TV/Tel package?....... for, lets face it, absolutely FA!! (infrastructure is already in place).... or lose a customer and have ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£20 less a month and have the hassle of collecting the STB?

The TV infrastructure is there aleady so NTL aren't (IMHO) bothered about potential BB users in South London.... and cynically I reckon that NTL are resting on their laurels in that South Londoners are too apethetic to switch to Sky/BT/ADSL

I ask you?

Bomber

ntl aren't bothered??????????????? :mad:

Of course they're bloody bothered - of course they want to take all the money they can off you in London for BB/intreactive etc - simple fact is THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO UPGRADE!!!!!! WHY IS THIS SO DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND?:cry:

bomber

08-07-2003, 22:37

OB, take a chill pill ;)

Lets take a scenario for example:

100 NTL customers in my street subscribe to NTL (TV/Phone only because BB is not available) and pay ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£25 a month = ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£2,500 to NTL

100 NTL customers in my street are fed up because they have no BB so they decide to:

1. Quit NTL and go for Sky/BT/ADSL = NTL gets ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£0 a month

2. Stay with NTL (with a discount for paying for a BT line for ADSL) = NTL gets ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£1,500 a month

Go figure?

Bomber

orangebird

08-07-2003, 22:45

Originally posted by bomber
OB, take a chill pill ;)

Lets take a scenario for example:

100 NTL customers in my street subscribe to NTL (TV/Phone only because BB is not available) and pay ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£25 a month = ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£2,500 to NTL

100 NTL customers in my street are fed up because they have no BB so they decide to:

1. Quit NTL and go for Sky/BT/ADSL = NTL gets ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£0 a month

2. Stay with NTL (with a discount for paying for a BT line for ADSL) = NTL gets ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£1,500 a month

Go figure?

Bomber

For the cost of maintenance/wages/billing/cs etc etc that is incurred per customer, it would take more than a few months (prob' not til after the discount's finished and the sub has gone elsewhere...) to make any profit from the possible revenue - go figure......

bomber

08-07-2003, 23:08

OB.... are you an NTL shareholder per chance???

We (South Londoners) have been neglected over past years, simple as that!..... I don't give a s@#t whether re-wiring South London is a viable financial option for NTL.... I couldn't give 2 hoots!!!...

If I cannot get a particular service from NTL... I'll use another option....

My original post was not meant to come across as "get NTL over a barrel.....screw them for any discount that you can..... threaten that you will leave NTL"... it was meant to highlight that NTL are aware of the problem with no BB in South London and they appear to be willing to come to some compromise (with regards to the difference in cost of getting a BT line installed and the costs incurred just to get ADSL!)

The point I am trying to make is that CS was more than happy to offer me a discount on my monthly NTL bill as he empathised why I was going down the Sky/BT/ADSL route.... I certainly did not 'badger' him as such! I never even expected a to get a discount when I phoned up.....I phoned up to cancel my NTL account remember.....

Bomber

hawkmoon

09-07-2003, 00:03

Originally posted by orangebird
Yeah, great - makes good sense that.....screw ntl for more discounts so they can earn even less money to be able to invest in making london bb & interactive able...... foot/shoot etc.....and even if ntl do manage to enable the area, if you're already happy with other provider services plus a freebie/discounted line, you won't want to change to ntl anyway!!!!!! :erm: :rolleyes:

Yes this might be the case, but why should those who have been promised BB for the last 2 years continuously and are still no clearer to whether they will or won't get BB show loyalty to NTL.

Remember for the last 2 years NTL have been actively lying to their customers about BB. They knew they were not in a position to offer these services and yet they still advertised them, promoted and promised them.

Even earlier this year I have a reply from senior NTL management to my MP promising that the upgrades would happen soon - almost 6 months later nothing and NTL senior management are saying the upgrades are not on the books.

This suggests that either NTL are so incompetant that they haven't got a clue what is happening or they are perfectly happy lying to MPs!

What you have to remember Orangebird is that if NTL can't offer a srevice then people WILL seek it elsewhere - customers do not owe NTL any loyalty and put up with shit services because NTL got themselves into debt. This still leaves the issue of why NTL didn't upgrade at the height of the tech boom when they had more money than they knew what to do with.

orangebird

09-07-2003, 09:09

Originally posted by bomber
OB.... are you an NTL shareholder per chance???

We (South Londoners) have been neglected over past years, simple as that!..... I don't give a s@#t whether re-wiring South London is a viable financial option for NTL.... I couldn't give 2 hoots!!!...

If I cannot get a particular service from NTL... I'll use another option....

My original post was not meant to come across as "get NTL over a barrel.....screw them for any discount that you can..... threaten that you will leave NTL"... it was meant to highlight that NTL are aware of the problem with no BB in South London and they appear to be willing to come to some compromise (with regards to the difference in cost of getting a BT line installed and the costs incurred just to get ADSL!)

The point I am trying to make is that CS was more than happy to offer me a discount on my monthly NTL bill as he empathised why I was going down the Sky/BT/ADSL route.... I certainly did not 'badger' him as such! I never even expected a to get a discount when I phoned up.....I phoned up to cancel my NTL account remember.....

Bomber

:confused: You've majorly contradicted yourself in your last post. In one paragraph, you saying that ntl have neglected you (and in previous posts that they can't be bothered etc...) - and then in the next, you're saying they are aware of the problem, and are trying to compensate/compromise for it.... :erm:

orangebird

09-07-2003, 09:11

Originally posted by hawkmoon
Yes this might be the case, but why should those who have been promised BB for the last 2 years continuously and are still no clearer to whether they will or won't get BB show loyalty to NTL.

Remember for the last 2 years NTL have been actively lying to their customers about BB. They knew they were not in a position to offer these services and yet they still advertised them, promoted and promised them.

Even earlier this year I have a reply from senior NTL management to my MP promising that the upgrades would happen soon - almost 6 months later nothing and NTL senior management are saying the upgrades are not on the books.

This suggests that either NTL are so incompetant that they haven't got a clue what is happening or they are perfectly happy lying to MPs!

What you have to remember Orangebird is that if NTL can't offer a srevice then people WILL seek it elsewhere - customers do not owe NTL any loyalty and put up with shit services because NTL got themselves into debt. This still leaves the issue of why NTL didn't upgrade at the height of the tech boom when they had more money than they knew what to do with.

ntl haven't been actibely lying - they thought that they could really deliver something, but overestimated themselves - two entirely different things.

Oh, and just fyi - ntl never had 'more money than they knew what to do with' - they just borrowed lots.....

rippedoff

09-07-2003, 11:19

Originally posted by Andre
Why doesn't everyone who this affects just contact him and ask him then?

chris.slattery@ntl.com

Did contact him..... he replied fairly quickly........ his reply just told me to phone sales for the latest on BB / CR3 !!!!!!!!!

FU**ING USELESS IF YOU ASK ME !:mad:

rippedoff

09-07-2003, 11:42

The latest reply from ntl:

Dear Mr *********

Thanks for your mail
Our broadband service is not available in your area at the moment. We continue to invest in upgrading our network to deliver the highest quality service and are committed to providing it to you as soon as possible.
This, as you can imagine, takes time and therefore it may be a number of months before we can confirm availability of the service in your area.
Our website is regularly updated with new services and availability. Here is a link to the site you need

http://www.ntl.com/locales/gb/en/home/broadband/availability/availability.asp

Regards,

Amanda Gilbert
Customer Liaison Co-ordinator
Customer Liaison Department
without prejudice
LondonCustomerManagement@cwcom.co.uk

That says a lot doesn't it? It's a variation on the 'coming soon' theme!

:blah: :blah:

Undisputedtruth

09-07-2003, 12:51

Originally posted by orangebird
:confused: You've majorly contradicted yourself in your last post. In one paragraph, you saying that ntl have neglected you (and in previous posts that they can't be bothered etc...) - and then in the next, you're saying they are aware of the problem, and are trying to compensate/compromise for it.... :erm:

That is the problem with NTL, they give you a number of stories. So why have a go at Bomber? OB is willing to say anything in order to put NTL in a good light!

Undisputedtruth

09-07-2003, 12:56

Undisputedtruth

09-07-2003, 12:58

Originally posted by rippedoff
Did contact him..... he replied fairly quickly........ his reply just told me to phone sales for the latest on BB / CR3 !!!!!!!!!

FU**ING USELESS IF YOU ASK ME !:mad:

I did say - straight question, bs reply.

Stuart

09-07-2003, 13:10

Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Let me complete the last sentence for you OB:

Oh, and just fyi - ntl never had 'more money than they knew what to do with' - they just borrowed lots of money than they knew what to do with!

I thought they knew exactly what to do with the money. They spent it buying other cable companies..

Stuart

09-07-2003, 13:14

BubbleGum

09-07-2003, 13:49

So areas of London haven't got broadband. Big bloody deal. Discussing this is Ok because we're on a discussion forum but instead of the same people saying the same things and everything going round and round in circles, why doesn't one of you get off your fat arse and do something like contact the mods here and get them to write to ntl for an official response. If ntl don't respond then this site can let everyone know that.

orangebird

09-07-2003, 14:04

Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
That is the problem with NTL, they give you a number of stories. So why have a go at Bomber? OB is willing to say anything in order to put NTL in a good light!

Ahhh, UDT - wondered where you were. Missed your witty reasoned responses & overwhelming charm. :)

Tristan

09-07-2003, 14:12

Originally posted by Bluetack
So areas of London haven't got broadband. Big bloody deal. Discussing this is Ok because we're on a discussion forum but instead of the same people saying the same things and everything going round and round in circles, why doesn't one of you get off your fat arse and do something like contact the mods here and get them to write to ntl for an official response. If ntl don't respond then this site can let everyone know that.

You are really going to regret writing that...

Mark W

09-07-2003, 14:21

BubbleGum

09-07-2003, 14:29

Originally posted by Tristan
You are really going to regret writing that...
You threatening me punk :p

All I'm saying is you can discuss this subject to death but it would be far more constructive to do something, than just sit around like a bunch of old whingers. Nominate someone to contact the mods and let them try and get an official response on behalf of this site and the members interested in London broadband :)

Undisputedtruth

09-07-2003, 14:37

BubbleGum

09-07-2003, 14:40

Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Perhaps, when their staff can act more professional and become more reasonable
I agree to some extent but as a customer, how professionally and reasonably are you handling the London broadband issues ?. Not very at all - why don't you since you've got the biggest mouth but I've never seen you achieve anything just heard hot air about how you're moving to BT but never do, be the one to contact the mods on this site :)

hawkmoon

09-07-2003, 15:55

Originally posted by orangebird
ntl haven't been actibely lying - they thought that they could really deliver something, but overestimated themselves - two entirely different things.

Oh, and just fyi - ntl never had 'more money than they knew what to do with' - they just borrowed lots.....

So what do you call constant promises by a company that BB is "coming soon" or "in the next 6 months" for 2 years or more when they knew very well that the infrastructure was not capable of delivering that promise.

A company that has been in trouble with the ASA for advertising said services in areas that they were not capable of supplying - these were in the form of large roadside billboard adverts, offering BB for ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£24.99p m and were put up all around the NW London ex-videotron areas.

That can hardly be classed as over-estimating themselves!

NTL have consistantly strung their customers in the ex-videotron regions along with promise after promise. They have advertised said services, their postcode checker informed over a year ago that BB was coming soon (still no sign of it), when sales and CS were asked they responded with "in the next 6 months" or "I can promise you that it is very soon now - looking at your postcode".

None of these can be classed as over-estimations. They are to all purposes deliberate attempts to mislead their customer base.

I really can't see why you are so eager to defend this company!
Originally posted by Bluetack
So areas of London haven't got broadband. Big bloody deal. Discussing this is Ok because we're on a discussion forum but instead of the same people saying the same things and everything going round and round in circles, why doesn't one of you get off your fat arse and do something like contact the mods here and get them to write to ntl for an official response. If ntl don't respond then this site can let everyone know that.

With all respect that was actually tried on NTHW IIRC. The mods there attempted at times to try and get further information. IIRC Craig (not sure which mod it was) was supposed to bring the matter up during a meeting with NTL. Anyone else remember this?
Originally posted by Bluetack
I agree to some extent but as a customer, how professionally and reasonably are you handling the London broadband issues ?. Not very at all - why don't you since you've got the biggest mouth but I've never seen you achieve anything just heard hot air about how you're moving to BT but never do, be the one to contact the mods on this site :)

I presume you never followed the numerous threads on NTHW?

If you had you would have seen that many people have tried to contact NTL on this matter and have either got the standard corporate reply of "we are committed to upgrading the networs" type of thing or have simply been ignored.

If it will help then said mods of this site please contact NTL and see if you can get a proper responce - rather than the usual one mentioned in several replies already in this thread.

BubbleGum

09-07-2003, 16:13

Originally posted by hawkmoon
I presume you never followed the numerous threads on NTHW?

If you had you would have seen that many people have tried to contact NTL on this matter and have either got the standard corporate reply of "we are committed to upgrading the networs" type of thing or have simply been ignored.

If it will help then said mods of this site please contact NTL and see if you can get a proper responce - rather than the usual one mentioned in several replies already in this thread.
I've read some of the threads there but the difference is that ntl own their arses over there. If ntl tell a mod on .com something lame then the mod is probably told to STFU about it - here that can't happen because unless I've missed something ntl are not involved here and can't control the content. Give the mods here a chance and lets see what happens :)

orangebird

09-07-2003, 16:57

Originally posted by hawkmoon
So what do you call constant promises by a company that BB is "coming soon" or "in the next 6 months" for 2 years or more when they knew very well that the infrastructure was not capable of delivering that promise.

A company that has been in trouble with the ASA for advertising said services in areas that they were not capable of supplying - these were in the form of large roadside billboard adverts, offering BB for ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£24.99p m and were put up all around the NW London ex-videotron areas.

That can hardly be classed as over-estimating themselves!

I think it can. What is it you think ntl had to gain by failing to deliver promises?

NTL have consistantly strung their customers in the ex-videotron regions along with promise after promise. They have advertised said services, their postcode checker informed over a year ago that BB was coming soon (still no sign of it), when sales and CS were asked they responded with "in the next 6 months" or "I can promise you that it is very soon now - looking at your postcode".

None of these can be classed as over-estimations. They are to all purposes deliberate attempts to mislead their customer base.

I really can't see why you are so eager to defend this company!

Again - what reasons do you have in mind for ntl wanting to 'string you along'? You think it was just for kicks or something??

I'm not defending them, but I do believe that when ntl first starting promising services, they truly thought they could deliver. They haven't been able to and I know it's frustrating (I can't get either ntl bb or adsl where I live), but it beggars belief that anyone thinks ntl were doing it deliberately to cheese potential customers off :erm:

Stuart

09-07-2003, 17:09

Originally posted by orangebird
I think it can. What is it you think ntl had to gain by failing to deliver promises?

Again - what reasons do you have in mind for ntl wanting to 'string you along'? You think it was just for kicks or something??

I'm not defending them, but I do believe that when ntl first starting promising services, they truly thought they could deliver. They haven't been able to and I know it's frustrating (I can't get either ntl bb or adsl where I live), but it beggars belief that anyone thinks ntl were doing it deliberately to cheese potential customers off :erm:

I have to agree with OB here. Although NTL have been done by the ASA for advertising services they are not capable of providing (and to be honest, I think NTL should have worked out where they can provide BB before they planned the advertisement campaign), they have nothing to gain by not providing this service.

In fact, they are losing at least ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£18 a month for each interested subscriber. That could be a lot of money. NTL know this, so I don't see what they gain by "stringing people along". It's almost like the "conspiracy theory" that went around a while back on .com.

bigitup_j

09-07-2003, 17:17

Originally posted by rippedoff
The latest reply from ntl:

Dear Mr *********

Thanks for your mail
Our broadband service is not available in your area at the moment. We continue to invest in upgrading our network to deliver the highest quality service and are committed to providing it to you as soon as possible.
This, as you can imagine, takes time and therefore it may be a number of months before we can confirm availability of the service in your area.
Our website is regularly updated with new services and availability. Here is a link to the site you need

http://www.ntl.com/locales/gb/en/home/broadband/availability/availability.asp

Regards,

Amanda Gilbert
Customer Liaison Co-ordinator
Customer Liaison Department
without prejudice
LondonCustomerManagement@cwcom.co.uk

That says a lot doesn't it? It's a variation on the 'coming soon' theme!

:blah: :blah:

the link is pretty useless. as i put in a postcode which does not have broadband (i know, my friend lives there and is quite annoyed) and it said bb was available! but it isn't

stupid ntl!

Undisputedtruth

09-07-2003, 17:54

Originally posted by Bluetack
I agree to some extent but as a customer, how professionally and reasonably are you handling the London broadband issues ?. Not very at all - why don't you since you've got the biggest mouth but I've never seen you achieve anything just heard hot air about how you're moving to BT but never do, be the one to contact the mods on this site :)

I've an order placed with a adsl provider and also I have a BT line since the beginning of June. I must admit I'm not professional in my own behaviour in handling the London broadband issue. Am I oblige to be professional? I've always been reasonable. Unfortunately, I have nothing but contempt for NTL which has showed in my postings. Please don't confuse contempt with reasonable behaviour.

I think I achieve alot by asking loads of awkward questions, highlighting contradictory information and raise the profile of broadband in London. People like Hawkmoon, Rippedoff, and others have made immense contributions. I have not seen any useful contributions from Bluetack, perhaps he could be kind enough to tell us his contribution.

binary

09-07-2003, 17:55

Originally posted by bigitup_j (post #115)
ntl are probably working on the 'easy' bits of the london network, the bits that need minimal money spent on. then they will move on to more expensive and involved parts of london.
well that's my theory, and seems quite probable.

I agree completely. It'd just be good to know where the good bits (which are more lilely to have broadband soon) and where the bad bits of the network actually are.

Originally posted by Bluetack (post #142)
You threatening me punk :p

All I'm saying is you can discuss this subject to death but it would be far more constructive to do something, than just sit around like a bunch of old whingers. Nominate someone to contact the mods and let them try and get an official response on behalf of this site and the members interested in London broadband :)

Many have contacted NTL for an official response. They just get the same old corporate reply of the style rippedoff (and many others) have received, as hawkmoon pointed out in post #145. rippedoff has copied his email from NTL in post #131.

What I would like is an unofficial reply from an NTL insider about the state of the London network. Such information will be far more valuable & informative than any official response. Ideally I'd like to be able to PM my postcode to someone in NTL so they can tell me about what the network is like in my neighbourhood.

The reason I'm participating in this thread is in the hope that an NTL insider might be pursuaded to do just that.

Originally posted by orangebird (post #147), replying to points made by hawkmoon in post #145
Again - what reasons do you have in mind for ntl wanting to 'string you along'? You think it was just for kicks or something??

As I've said before of course there's no conspiracy to deny London broadband.

However NTL does wish to retain customers (such as myself) who, if they'd known how long it would take to get broadband, would not have stayed with NTL. I moved address locally, and transfered my NTL service to the new address. If I had know that x years later NTL still couldn't offer me broadband, then I'd have chosen BT/ADSL/Sky to be installed in my new abode.

I will wait another 6 months, then (unless I have any credible information that broadband is really coming) I'll get ADSL with a BT line. At the end of the day that option is open to nearly everyone in London.

hawkmoon

09-07-2003, 17:58

Originally posted by orangebird
I think it can. What is it you think ntl had to gain by failing to deliver promises?

Again - what reasons do you have in mind for ntl wanting to 'string you along'? You think it was just for kicks or something??

I'm not defending them, but I do believe that when ntl first starting promising services, they truly thought they could deliver. They haven't been able to and I know it's frustrating (I can't get either ntl bb or adsl where I live), but it beggars belief that anyone thinks ntl were doing it deliberately to cheese potential customers off :erm: ]

Maybe when they first started promising, but their promises went on for 2 years! They were still promising that BB was coming soon whilst they were undergoing debt restructuring!

There is no way that this is going to be passed off as over-estimation. You really expect people to accept that NTL thought they could re-cable the mjority of the ex-Videotron areas within 6 months. Remember this is not just a single occurance but continuously happened over 2 or more years!

Also NTL have had there hands slapped by the ASA several times for making misleading statements in adverts for services that were not actually available. They once even told the ASA that they could provide evidence that 70% of the franchise's where these services were advertised could receive said services, they failed to deliver this evidence to the ASA.

Whilst the London MD was telling myself and my MP that NTL was confident that they could launch BB and interactive later in the year, the London Customer Management team in customer liasions were telling over people that NTL had no plans to upgrade the networks to provide these services.

Make your own conclussions - lies or incompetance yes, over-estimation, no way!

hawkmoon

09-07-2003, 18:04

Originally posted by bigitup_j
the link is pretty useless. as i put in a postcode which does not have broadband (i know, my friend lives there and is quite annoyed) and it said bb was available! but it isn't

stupid ntl!

Yup, same here. That link is saying that "BB is coming soon" for my postcode in Harrow.

It has been saying this for almost a year now - despite the fact that someone else in Harrow has got a reply from NTL saying that NTL have done tests and have no plans to launch BB in Harrow.

Gogogo

09-07-2003, 18:49

Originally posted by binary
I agree completely. It'd just be good to know where the good bits (which are more lilely to have broadband soon) and where the bad bits of the network actually are...
...What I would like is an unofficial reply from an NTL insider about the state of the London network. Such information will be far more valuable & informative than any official response. Ideally I'd like to be able to PM my postcode to someone in NTL so they can tell me about what the network is like in my neighbourhood...
...The reason I'm participating in this thread is in the hope that an NTL insider might be pursuaded to do just that...

...As I've said before of course there's no conspiracy to deny London broadband...

Agreed binary, all that is required is for some ntl big wig to actually once and for all give a comprehensive reply to all the questions posed, simple really we are not asking for much just simple informed answers to simple questions.

:wavey:

bigitup_j

09-07-2003, 19:33

i would rekon, that ntl have a plan for broadband this year in london. but they are not telling customers about it because it could go horribly wrong, plus it is being done bit by bit and no dates or advanced notices about the release of bb in selected (now enabled) areas have been give.
so ntl have no idea of when it will be complete, but the target is this year. we simply don't know as ntl aren't telling us anything which is very annoying.

ntl NEED to communicate.

Undisputedtruth

09-07-2003, 20:17

There could be a possibility NTL may have a business plan to rollout broadband by a certain dates/years. Someone without any common sense decided to upgrade the northern areas first in order to generate cash. This business plan may have backfired. NTL have lost thousands of customers. They are not generating enough cash as hoped to invest in one of country's key market.

BubbleGum

09-07-2003, 22:21

Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
I've an order placed with a adsl provider
Is that a real or imaginary ADSL provider because you've had ADSL coming for a long time - yes, I do read the other site, and I've seen you make a fool of yourself there.
I must admit I'm not professional in my own behaviour in handling the London broadband issue.
I know you're not and others can see it too. If you were instead of going round in circles and promoting yourself with that silly title, you'd do something to try and get answers out of ntl.
Am I oblige to be professional?
No but the question could also be are you obliged to be a pain in the arse.
I've always been reasonable. Unfortunately, I have nothing but contempt for NTL which has showed in my postings. Please don't confuse contempt with reasonable behaviour.
You're bitter, very bitter and for no genuine reason other than you want a product from a company you openly admit to hating and can't get it.
I think I achieve alot by asking loads of awkward questions, highlighting contradictory information and raise the profile of broadband in London.
All you achieve is to get peoples backs up and as far as contradictory information, you post a lot of it yourself - I've seen you vanish from threads at .com when someone trips you up, and then come back when the thread has moved on.
People like Hawkmoon, Rippedoff, and others have made immense contributions. I have not seen any useful contributions from Bluetack, perhaps he could be kind enough to tell us his contribution.
I have no interest in ntl broadband within London but I've suggested that you work with the mods of this site to try and force an answer out of ntl. If that idea is over your head then just say so Mr I'm going to adsl.

Leave ntl and stop whinging or stay and start fighting (with others to support you) :) - but don't keep playing the same record.

Gogogo

09-07-2003, 22:54

Exactly, Bluetack, you hit the nail on the head there!

:wavey:

hawkmoon

09-07-2003, 23:27

Originally posted by Bluetack

I have no interest in ntl broadband within London but I've suggested that you work with the mods of this site to try and force an answer out of ntl. If that idea is over your head then just say so Mr I'm going to adsl.

People have tried to force an answer out of NTL.

People have tried contact Mr Hussain, Mr Slattery, Mr Collinson, etc with the only reply being that "NTL are commited to improving the service....blah, blah, blah"

It has taken almost 2 years for NTL to admit there is a serious problem and hopefully to have stopped promising something they can't supply.

There were plenty of NTL employees on the other site, some from the customer liasion team, some from the london management team and not one of those who even bothered to take part in the threads made any useful contribution apart from pretty much ****ging off those who aren't happy with the situation.

To this day NTL still haven't really publically appologized for the cock up over the CR3 issue, apart from a letter posted by one of the mods to NTHW to what is really a minority of the customers affected. The reasoning was that those who were affected would be easily confused if they told them a mistake was made and that was straight from the mouth of NTL:Home London MD.

This is the sort of company that NTL are - they refuse to talk to their customers.

Undisputedtruth

10-07-2003, 01:16

Originally posted by Bluetack
Is that a real or imaginary ADSL provider because you've had ADSL coming for a long time - yes, I do read the other site, and I've seen you make a fool of yourself there.

It is true I have taken a long time in this matter and so what. I very much doubt I made a fool of myself. Perhaps itÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ Â¬ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¾Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢s a figment of your imagination. IÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â ¬ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¾Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢m not here to make friends or proof myself to anyone. Go on throw some more insults at me. I simply donÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡Ãƒâ€šÃ ‚Â¬ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¾Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢t care, in fact I see it as a compliment. IÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â ¬ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¾Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢ve taken a lot of nonsense from the likes of fedupwithntl, themole, orangebird, Tristan, Grum666, Mark, BBKing and others, but I do feel stronger for it. Thanks Guys!

I know you're not and others can see it too. If you were instead of going round in circles and promoting yourself with that silly title, you'd do something to try and get answers out of ntl.

?????????

No but the question could also be are you obliged to be a pain in the arse.

Only to the proNTL mob.

You're bitter, very bitter and for no genuine reason other than you want a product from a company you openly admit to hating and can't get it.

I hate being lied to, just like anyone else. Are you really that dim to understand this? It is not such much wanting the product it is the messing about from NTL which I have a problem with. That bitterness will always be there even if NTL do offer me the required product. I really don't think you can truly understand the situation. I'll suggest you should discuss with Rippedoff and Hawkmoon

All you achieve is to get peoples backs up and as far as contradictory information, you post a lot of it yourself - I've seen you vanish from threads at .com when someone trips you up, and then come back when the thread has moved on.

Show me examples. IÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â ¬ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¾Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢ll be happy to answer. Don't forget I do have other interest and there have been times that I just can't be bothered to answer a post to where I given an answer or reason before. I deliberately done that to fedupwithntl. Gosh that man was stupid!

I have no interest in ntl broadband within London but I've suggested that you work with the mods of this site to try and force an answer out of ntl. If that idea is over your head then just say so Mr I'm going to adsl.

Perhaps it is time for you to come clean and state your relationship with the mods. For someone who has recently started posting on this site and as so far made only one post on another site. Very suspicious. I seen your previous posts and it seems you like to attack fellow members. Is it because youÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡Ãƒâ€šÃ ‚Â¬ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¾Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢re not original enough to come with your own comments.? The fact you have attacked me is another way of complimenting me. Am I really that important? I hope not. And even if it was true - so what?

Leave ntl and stop whinging or stay and start fighting (with others to support you) :) - but don't keep playing the same record.

The record will continue to twirl until IÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â ¬ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¾Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢ll get some answers. Anyway, I do enjoys this debate on broadband in London. It is comments like yours that spur me on. I'll see it as a pathetic attempt to silence me.

Remember, I'm not here for self promotion. I have no need to proof myself to anyone. I'm here simply to state my views. I simply don't give a f**k what other people think about me!

rippedoff

10-07-2003, 12:33

quote:
Originally posted by Bluetack

I have no interest in ntl broadband within London but I've suggested that you work with the mods of this site to try and force an answer out of ntl. If that idea is over your head then just say so Mr I'm going to adsl.

I agree with Hawkmoon & UDT's postings above.
Bluetack - you say that you have no interest in ntl braodband in Londn - if that is the case, don't bother reading this thread or making stupid comments about those of us who ARE interested in London BB. Haven't you noticed the title of this thread? Even to someone of limited capabilties, it is quite clear that this thread is about London Broadband - something you claim to have no interest in - so why do you bother posting your verbal diarrhoea on this thread.
Oh... and gogogo...why don't you get a life too, and leave this thread alone?:wavey:

Mark W

10-07-2003, 13:00

Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
I deliberately done that to fedupwithntl. Gosh that man was stupid!
:rolleyes: :nono:

please do something different and stop insulting other members

Russ

10-07-2003, 13:04

OK people, this post has just been reported to the Phoenix team for all the insults flying about and I'm inclined to agree.

I'm going to be watching this thread now and the next time I see any insult (irregardless of who started it) this thread will be temporarily closed, any further insults and it'll be closed permanently.

Undisputedtruth

10-07-2003, 13:44

Originally posted by Mark W
:rolleyes: :nono:

please do something different and stop insulting other members

fedupwithntl is not a member on nthellworld.co.uk! So how can you insult someone who is not a member of this forum?

Mods beware of the proNTL mob they are willing to say anything to justify their unjustifiable case.

I think the better idea would be to stop people like Bluetack who have no interest in London whatsover. He has tried to upset me and Rippedoff. You would have to question his motives on this thread. His post is a direct attack on me. Mark has not posted any reasonably new information. There was that time when he threatened not to post anything on this thread. He is still actively posting. All "Drama Queen" stuff me think. We already knew since last year there were going to be trials in that area. What we need is proper information. I'm sure the people who have genuine interest would agree!

Stuart

10-07-2003, 14:17

Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
fedupwithntl is not a member on nthellworld.co.uk! So how can you insult someone who is not a member of this forum?
He is a member on the other forum & quite possibly lurks here. No need to insult him whether you agree with him or not.

Mods beware of the proNTL mob they are willing to say anything to justify their unjustifiable case.

And you don't?

I think the better idea would be to stop people like Bluetack who have no interest in London whatsover. He has tried to upset me and Rippedoff. You would have to question his motives on this thread. His post is a direct attack on me. Mark has not posted any reasonably new information. There was that time when he threatened not to post anything on this thread. He is still actively posting. All "Drama Queen" stuff me think. We already knew since last year there were going to be trials in that area. What we need is proper information. I'm sure the people who have genuine interest would agree!

True, Bluetack doesn't have a real interest in Broadband in London (He has admitted so himself) and he has been a bit abusive in the way he has communicated with certain people. So have you.

He has raised one good point though. The one about us appointing a representative to approach the mods, who can then approach NTL. He said:

Originally posted by Bluetack

All I'm saying is you can discuss this subject to death but it would be far more constructive to do something, than just sit around like a bunch of old whingers. Nominate someone to contact the mods and let them try and get an official response on behalf of this site and the members interested in London broadband

And insulting NTL staff who post on here is not a good idea. Even if they can't help you, they may be in a position to help someone. If they keep getting insulted, they will not come here and post.

Edit: Bluetack, the paragraph above was aimed at UDT, not you.

It would be nice to hear from NTL how the various London trials are progressing..

rippedoff

10-07-2003, 14:43

[i]I think the better idea would be to stop people like Bluetack who have no interest in London whatsover. He has tried to upset me and Rippedoff. You would have to question his motives on this thread. [/B]

I agree with that point! If you look at Bt postings HERE (http://www.nthellworld.co.uk/forum/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=4439) you will soon see what kind of person Bluetack is.

And scastle has said:

He has raised one good point though. The one about us appointing a representative to approach the mods, who can then approach NTL. He said:
quote:
Originally posted by Bluetack
All I'm saying is you can discuss this subject to death but it would be far more constructive to do something, than just sit around like a bunch of old whingers. Nominate someone to contact the mods and let them try and get an official response on behalf of this site and the members interested in London broadband

Why do we need to "appoint a representative to approach the mods, who can then approach ntl" ?

I assume that the mods can read. I would hope that the mods would raise anything they thought was a 'hot' topic on behalf of the forum members, but just in case they won't, I will officially, on this thread, on this site, on this post, ask the mods to take up the issue on the behalf of the London ntl: customers who are deprived of BB and Interactive TV services (not just those who are members of this forum). So, here we go....

Dear moderators of nthellworld.co.uk,
On behalf of those ntl: London customers who do not yet have Interactive TV or BroadBand services available to them, could you please ask ntl: London Mangement for an official answer to the question: " What is the current situation with the introduction of BB and Interactive TV services to the franchises in London, mainly ex-CWC and Videotron, and can you give these customers an indication as to when, if ever, they are likely to receive these services. "
Thank you,
Rippedoff

OK?

:shrug:

rippedoff

10-07-2003, 14:57

Originally posted by Andre
Either those affected aren't really that bothered, or people aren't reading the thread properly.

Either way, the offer was made already. :)

Sorry? What is this answer saying? Is it saying the offer was made before but nobody responded, so it's too late now?

or

We are incapable of reading the thread properly, so tough luck?

Either way, (to steal your phrase) what you don't say is:
" Certainly, we would be more than happy to do that on your behalf"

:confused:

Gogogo

10-07-2003, 15:01

Originally posted by rippedoff
quote:
Oh... and gogogo...why don't you get a life too, and leave this thread alone?:wavey:

Offensive comments removed.

This thread will now closed temporarily to allow people to cool down, thanks Andre.

Ben

10-07-2003, 16:04

bigitup_j

10-07-2003, 16:31

:td:

Undisputedtruth

10-07-2003, 17:19

Originally posted by Gandalf
I don't understand this :confused: The threads been closed once and now its reopened you can't drop this :confused:

Without stating the obvious, there are a number of the proNTL mob willing to sabotage the thread. You have also witness the Gogogo attack on Rippedoff and earlier on in the thread Gogogo agreement with Bluetack on his attack on me. I would question Gogogo motive for being on this thread.

We shoud re-read Rippedoff earlier post where he stated that anyone with no interest in broadband in London, ie those not living in London, do not have to participate in the thread. NTL employess are welcome provided they can post substantial evidence.

rippedoff

10-07-2003, 22:17

Originally posted by Andre
If someone wants to get in touch with me with a view to contacting ntl directly about London broadband on behalf of this site, I/we will gladly put a plan of action together with a view to getting an official response from ntl that they can't ignore

So, I take it from this , you are going to take it up on our behalf.

Thank you.
:)

rippedoff

11-07-2003, 10:52

Originally posted by Gogogo
OK Andre. Ripped off is a bully, is rude, arrogant & offensive. He seems to have forgotten this thread is about BB/interactive TV in areas where customers don't have it. He wants to live in his own little silly world.

I don't really understand the point you are trying to make here. It is however interesting that you do not seem to suuport us complaining about the lack of CR3 / BB in parts of London, but, at others times you do seem to suuport our view!

LOOK HERE (http://www.nthellworld.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=484084#post484084)

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Gogogo

11-07-2003, 11:09

Originally posted by rippedoff

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

No confusion.

You & udt imagine everyone is against you. You are abusive to anyone you think disagrees with you, frankly at the rate of scaring people off you & udt will be the only ones left posting here.

ntl is not all bad it does provide satisfactory services: phone connexion excellent, dial up internet excellent, digital tv excellent and e-mail access has improved considerably. Give at least some credit to ntl . My concern is that we are denied BB/interactive or enhanced TV services in this area and no one at senior level in ntl appears to be able to clarify what's going on. Some people think money is the problem but clearly some money is being spent as BB is being rolled out somewhere.

No I'm not anti-ntl, there is NO anti-London conspiracy.

I hope you will be clearer in your mind now. Everyone has the right to be involved and take part in this thread, the more people involved the better no matter what they have to say. It' s better to be constructive.

Now I'm off to work.

:spin:

hawkmoon

11-07-2003, 12:39

Originally posted by Gogogo

ntl is not all bad it does provide satisfactory services: phone connexion excellent, dial up internet excellent, digital tv excellent and e-mail access has improved considerably. Give at least some credit to ntl .

Actually I found the equivelant services offered by CWCom better than the ones that NTL forced on us - for example the CWCom 1571 voicemail was far superior to the crappy NTL one. It was more user friendly.

Yes dial-up is excellent but so was the dial-up I had under Videotron / CWCom. I could choose a range of ISP's and get unmetered connection to them during evening / weekend and bank holidays. NTL are the company that finally killed this off, although CWCom started the ball roling. This was the reason why Alistair Scott set up CW watch and then became port of CUT with Erol.

Apart from adding more channels NTL haven't really given me anything extra that I never had under CWCom.

rippedoff

11-07-2003, 13:41

Originally posted by hawkmoon
Apart from adding more channels NTL haven't really given me anything extra that I never had under CWCom.

Well, I must confess, they have given me some things that I never got with C&W .....
Broken promises that BB / Intercative TV was 'coming soon'....over 2 years ago...........
A letter last year telling me I was being upgraded in November 2002 (CR3 / BB) ........ but we all know what happened...... what they still haven't given me (or anyone else for that matter) is a letter telling people it was a mistake and an apology for their mistake. The only way people know it was a mistake was through the forums or by phoning CS and asking what happened to the upgrade.
Just recently, dial-up email not working properly for around 3 weeks, and the service status page just directing you to the terms of service instead of reasons for problems and an estimated time of resolution..........
Increased prices.............

I am sure there is more.........

:rolleyes:

Mick

11-07-2003, 21:43

Thread re-open, certain 'heated' posts have been removed. Can we please try to avoid having personal gripes with other members. I said this previously, discuss the London Broadband issue to your hearts content, but do not bring the thread down by throwing insults around.

I'm afraid if we can't discuss the issue without having a 'dig' or two at someone, then if the next time this thread is closed, it will remain closed.

Moox

11-07-2003, 22:08

Originally posted by Dr. Plummer
I'm afraid if we can't discuss the issue without having a 'dig' or two at someone, then if the next time this thread is closed, it will remain closed. Isn't that unfair? Another abusive comment from the likes of BT, who afaik has nothing to do with ntl in London, can easily get this thread closed?

BubbleGum

11-07-2003, 22:21

Originally posted by Goldie
Isn't that unfair? Another abusive comment from the likes of BT, who afaik has nothing to do with ntl in London, can easily get this thread closed?
Ain't that a bitch :rofl:

I don't want this thread closed but it would be good if people changed the record :rolleyes:

Mick

11-07-2003, 22:23

Originally posted by Goldie
Isn't that unfair? Another abusive comment from the likes of BT, who afaik has nothing to do with ntl in London, can easily get this thread closed?

This thread has been open closed quite a few times and not because of one particular member. If one member is insulting then it starts a chain reaction that a few jump on the bandwagon and before long the thread is all over the place and veered from the main theme.

Gogogo

11-07-2003, 22:56

Originally posted by Dr. Plummer
This thread has been open closed quite a few times and not because of one particular member. If one member is insulting then it starts a chain reaction that a few jump on the bandwagon and before long the thread is all over the place and veered from the main theme.

Agreed Dr. Plummer lets all keep it friendly and not engage in silly insults or implied insults.

:spin:

kronas

12-07-2003, 02:28

ok so can udt answer this question if an alternative broadband provider is available in your area why not join them ?

i thought your 100 call test was over by now

there is nothing special about ntl broadband really that warrents all this aggression and tension that i see

the words 'move on' spring to my mind :rolleyes:

bigitup_j

12-07-2003, 09:04

well just to tell you postcodes SE22(main target), SE15 and SE5 now have broadband!!!

that is excellent new for people in those areas, so the ntl upgrade team move on to another area.
ntl broadband upgrade team, coming to a place near YOU! :)

the source is ntl.

grum1978

12-07-2003, 09:17

Originally posted by bigitup_j
well just to tell you postcodes SE22(main target), SE15 and SE5 now have broadband!!!

that is excellent new for people in those areas, so the ntl upgrade team move on to another area.
ntl broadband upgrade team, coming to a place near YOU! :)

the source is ntl.

Thats great news for people in those areas and hopefully for people in other areas soon :D

Chris

12-07-2003, 12:54

Originally posted by kronas
ok so can udt answer this question if an alternative broadband provider is available in your area why not join them ?

i thought your 100 call test was over by now

there is nothing special about ntl broadband really that warrents all this aggression and tension that i see

the words 'move on' spring to my mind :rolleyes:

Just to repeat Kronas' question above, some of us are genuinely curious: if you can't get the services you want from ntl - ie interactive digital TV and broadband internet - why don't you buy it from sky instead?

Undisputedtruth

12-07-2003, 13:19

Originally posted by Goldie
Isn't that unfair? Another abusive comment from the likes of BT, who afaik has nothing to do with ntl in London, can easily get this thread closed?

So, if someone is waiting for NTL broadband - they are now class as someone from BT?

Originally posted by kronas
ok so can udt answer this question if an alternative broadband provider is available in your area why not join them ?

i thought your 100 call test was over by now

I've answered a similar question before. Please refer to my earlier post.

The 100 call test, well a lot more than that, was to see how bad NTL customers services were. Yes, they are really awful!

Originally posted by towny
Just to repeat Kronas' question above, some of us are genuinely curious: if you can't get the services you want from ntl - ie interactive digital TV and broadband internet - why don't you buy it from sky instead?

It is clear the proNTL mob do not understand the customers in London. We have covered this in great detail on the other thread. A wooden mallet springs to mind. The record will need to keep spinning until the information finally sinks into their head. It may take forever though.

kronas

12-07-2003, 13:29

Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
I've answered a similar question before. Please refer to my earlier post.

The 100 call test, well a lot more than that, was to see how bad NTL customers services were. Yes, they are really awful!

point me to the post as im not going through every single post

Gogogo

12-07-2003, 13:35

Originally posted by towny
Just to repeat Kronas' question above, some of us are genuinely curious: if you can't get the services you want from ntl - ie interactive digital TV and broadband internet - why don't you buy it from sky instead?

A reasonable question. Here's an answer from me:

1. We are not allowed to set up a satellite dish as we are in a flat.

2. Dislike Rupert Murdoch and have no wish if we can help it, to add to his millions.

3. Generally happy with ntl services but we feel BB/interactive TV services ought to be available to us.

4. ntl appears to be extending BB etc services in parts of Greater London so it's reasonable to ask ntl managers what their plans are.

5. Have you considered the consequent financial loss for ntl if all those customers in Greater London do as you wish. It would probably mean immediate bankruptcy for ntl.

:wavey:

Lord Nikon

12-07-2003, 15:09

1) AFAIK you would be allowed a communal dish.

2) good point

3) couldn't agree more

4) also good point

5) what? again?

Gogogo

12-07-2003, 15:16

Originally posted by Lord Nikon
1) AFAIK you would be allowed a communal dish.

This is forbidden by the terms of the leasehold.

:wavey:

Undisputedtruth

12-07-2003, 15:19

Originally posted by kronas
point me to the post as im not going through every single post

No - why should I? If you're going to attack me then at least get your facts straight.

Chris

12-07-2003, 15:40

Originally posted by Gogogo
A reasonable question. Here's an answer from me:

1. We are not allowed to set up a satellite dish as we are in a flat.

2. Dislike Rupert Murdoch and have no wish if we can help it, to add to his millions.

3. Generally happy with ntl services but we feel BB/interactive TV services ought to be available to us.

4. ntl appears to be extending BB etc services in parts of Greater London so it's reasonable to ask ntl managers what their plans are.

5. Have you considered the consequent financial loss for ntl if all those customers in Greater London do as you wish. It would probably mean immediate bankruptcy for ntl.

:wavey:

Thanks m8. It's nice to see that in the midst of what is obviously a touchy subject, some folks can still answer an honest question with a polite answer!

I feel I understand things a bit better now. :)

BubbleGum

12-07-2003, 16:22

Some good news for the London people with Broadband rolling out in South East London :)

SE15 and parts of SE5 are getting it and SE22 now has it. Can any ntl people confirm this or will the mods please find out for us.

bigitup_j

12-07-2003, 16:28

well i have heard that. i believe this has been confirmed as people are now subscribing to the service in those areas. well good news for many.

kronas

12-07-2003, 16:45

Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
No - why should I? If you're going to attack me then at least get your facts straight.

when did i attack you what facts i never said anything of the sort just clarifying on something understanding this stance that you have because clearly you need to find an alternative provider as NTL cant provide you with a service why continue going on and on nothing will change untill the company does something itself thats what i am saying

BubbleGum

12-07-2003, 17:50

Originally posted by kronas
when did i attack you
You haven't and didn't - welcome to the London broadband thread where you have to kiss the arse of undisputedtruth or be accused of attacking him or being pro ntl :rolleyes:

kronas

12-07-2003, 17:57

Originally posted by Bluetack
You haven't and didn't - welcome to the London broadband thread where you have to kiss the arse of undisputedtruth or be accused of attacking him or being pro ntl :rolleyes:

lol well if it was me i would not waste my time its common sense if your favored provider cant provide you with something you look for the next best thing until NTL sort it go to another provider if your that bothered about being an NTL customer :rolleyes:

Tristan

12-07-2003, 20:57

I thought you lot would all be celebrating the news that three London postcodes are getting broadband. Surely this is a sign that NTL are (slowly) bring broadband to ex-Videotron areas?

Also, Kronas, have you really managed to make 1400+ posts in a month, or have you doctored that somehow?

kronas

12-07-2003, 21:02

Originally posted by Tristan
I thought you lot would all be celebrating the news that three London postcodes are getting broadband. Surely this is a sign that NTL are (slowly) bring broadband to ex-Videotron areas?

thats exactly what i thought yet the silence is deafening when approaching others with valid questions it seems people dont want to listen :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Tristan

Also, Kronas, have you really managed to make 1400+ posts in a month, or have you doctored that somehow?

combination of having alot of time on my hands THAT thread and me posting all over the forum :p

Tristan

12-07-2003, 22:50

THAT thread???

I'm confused. What thread?

Sorry to take this off topic, it won't be long...

gallego1

13-07-2003, 00:24

Phoned the sales team yesterday just to see if anything had changed from the usual reply of "not yet" and "dont Know"

And the reply was my area of Lambeth will be getting the bb service by the end of this year ie 2003 and so is the rest of london..

This may be the news we are looking for and at most its only 5 months away OR Unless someone knows anything different ?????
:) :( :confused:

Gogogo

13-07-2003, 07:30

Originally posted by Tristan
I thought you lot would all be celebrating the news that three London postcodes are getting broadband. Surely this is a sign that NTL are (slowly) bring broadband to ex-Videotron areas?

There are I believe 28 SE postcode districts in south east London, I don't know how many already have access to ntl's full range of services or even if they are ntl cabled.

SE5 Camberwell, SE15 Peckham, Nunhead, SE22 East Dulwich are neighbouring areas and I would imagine that those ntl customers living there will indeed be happy, it's progress and it proves ntl is doing something so that those who claim ntl has no money for development obviously know nothing.

There must be people in the areas above who could let us know if they have been contacted and what their experiences have been so far.

It would be nice to know ntl plans for the remainder of its customers in Greater London.

:wavey:

Undisputedtruth

13-07-2003, 09:53

As I live in those areas I shall let you Guys know NTL method of contacting customers from a customer point of view.

Tristan

13-07-2003, 12:14

Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
As I live in those areas I shall let you Guys know NTL method of contacting customers from a customer point of view.

And if it gets a good write-up, I'll eat my proverbial hat ;)

hawkmoon

13-07-2003, 12:53

Originally posted by Tristan
I thought you lot would all be celebrating the news that three London postcodes are getting broadband. Surely this is a sign that NTL are (slowly) bring broadband to ex-Videotron areas?

Also, Kronas, have you really managed to make 1400+ posts in a month, or have you doctored that somehow?

Those three postcodes have been on the books for at least the last 6 months or longer.

We already knew that they could support BB without much upgrading. It is the other areas that many of us are interested in - the ones that NTL say have crap cableing and probably need the cables to be relaid.

hawkmoon

13-07-2003, 12:55

Originally posted by gallego1
Phoned the sales team yesterday just to see if anything had changed from the usual reply of "not yet" and "dont Know"

And the reply was my area of Lambeth will be getting the bb service by the end of this year ie 2003 and so is the rest of london..

This may be the news we are looking for and at most its only 5 months away OR Unless someone knows anything different ?????
:) :( :confused:

The fact that NTL's head of marketing has stated that they have done extensive tests in the Harrow region (part of the London ex-videotron franchises) and HAVE NO PLANS to launch BB here!

hawkmoon

13-07-2003, 12:56

Originally posted by Gogogo

SE5 Camberwell, SE15 Peckham, Nunhead, SE22 East Dulwich are neighbouring areas and I would imagine that those ntl customers living there will indeed be happy, it's progress and it proves ntl is doing something so that those who claim ntl has no money for development obviously know nothing.

:wavey:

Glad you said that - it is the pro-NTL mob and those who work for NTL that have been claiming that NTL don't have the money to upgrade the networks.

bigitup_j

13-07-2003, 13:10

does anyone know which areas could be next? or is your guess as good as mine?

the se5, se15, and se22 areas are next to each other and are in the middle of south london, so maybe ntl are working outwards. and inwards, since parts of br1 (the bits in lewisham) have also been done.
and i believe the new cross area has broadband.

we will just have to wait..........

Gogogo

13-07-2003, 13:42

Originally posted by hawkmoon
Glad you said that - it is the pro-NTL mob and those who work for NTL that have been claiming that NTL don't have the money to upgrade the networks.

Firstly, looking over the London Broadband issue on the nthw.com site I am bewildered at the amount of sweat and time spent on postings of the subject, collected they must be the size of a small novel, which have lead us to where we are now.

Secondly, there was an ntl London Broadband Programme announcement posted by Frank dated 4 October 2002 and unless I misread it: SE5 Camberwell, SE15 Peckham, Nunhead, SE22 East Dulwich were not mentioned:

"ntl:home confirms London expansion programme
Posted by Frank on 04 Oct 2002

News just in today, ntl:homeÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ Â´s London division has confirmed that a programme is now underway to provide service in most areas of London served by the network where broadband has not so far been rolled out.

ntl:home in London has been rapidly building out Broadband service and is at the present time providing it to half of the homes on its network in the capital.

Broadband is currently being launched in the City of Westminster and it is planned to launch service in Greenwich and Lewisham in the next few months. A programme is now underway to provide service in most other areas in London served by ntl:home during the coming year.

As part of this programme new launches across London will be tested in trails prior to launch. If you would like to either take part in testing the Broadband service or would be interested in subscribing to Broadband Internet when it is available then ntl:home have asked if you would please register your details at the address below."

Also I suspect that probably some people in these locations will not have services due to living in high rise apartment blocks.

:wavey:

bigitup_j

13-07-2003, 15:34

well i believe those postcodes you mentioned are 'across london', and parts of lewisham and greenwich have been done.
we just have to wait for more news.

Undisputedtruth

13-07-2003, 23:04

Originally posted by hawkmoon
Glad you said that - it is the pro-NTL mob and those who work for NTL that have been claiming that NTL don't have the money to upgrade the networks.

I agree. The pro-NTL mob has not provided any substantial information and their answers were so full of BS. I think they were trying their best to get the London thread closed and distort the truth whenever possible.

Has the NTL employees been of any help? I very much doubt it.

hawkmoon

13-07-2003, 23:11

Originally posted by Undisputedtruth

Has the NTL employees been of any help? I very much doubt it.

I had both senior management and the London management team giving opposing statements at roughly the same time.

It really does seem that NTL are as confused on this issue as the rest of us.

There must be someone who knows what is going on, but it certainly isn't senior management given their conflicting statements.

BubbleGum

14-07-2003, 01:04

Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Has the NTL employees been of any help? I very much doubt it.
Why don't you bog off !. For once you've got some good news and you're still the same miserable bitch you always are. Is your name Victor Meldrew you happy sod ?.

kronas

14-07-2003, 01:23

Originally posted by Bluetack
Why don't you bog off !. For once you've got some good news and you're still the same miserable bitch you always are. Is your name Victor Meldrew you happy sod ?.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

you made me laugh tonight

:p

Gogogo

14-07-2003, 05:53

Originally posted by Bluetack
Why don't you *** off !. For once you've got some good news and you're still the same miserable ***** you always are. Is your name Victor Meldrew you happy *** ?.

Bluetack, this forum is for constructive contributions in regard to the ntl London Broadband Programme. Everyone has the right to take part in the discussion and it is not helpful to tell other contributors to go away. I notice that you yourself have contributed elsewhere a whinging note about ntl digital tv services but no one told you to *** off.

Toleration and constructive contributions please and no more provocation.

Thank you.

:spin:

Ben

14-07-2003, 08:29

Im watching this thread

Please keep this a discussion and lets not turn it into a slogging match

Mark W

14-07-2003, 10:03

Originally posted by Gandalf
Im watching this thread

Please keep this a discussion and lets not turn it into a slogging match

cos thats just not cricket ;)

Ben

14-07-2003, 10:04

Originally posted by Mark W
cos thats just not cricket ;)

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: ...

And now back on topic :D

bigitup_j

14-07-2003, 17:00

so, se5, se15 and se22 are now all fully broadband enabled (interactive coming at later date). the ntl sales team have not be informed yet, and if you want broadband wait a few days until sales has been informed so ordering can take place.
warning: expect HUGE waiting lists for installation, it is going to be very very very very popular.

grum1978

14-07-2003, 17:23

Originally posted by bigitup_j
so, se5, se15 and se22 are now all fully broadband enabled (interactive coming at later date). the ntl sales team have not be informed yet, and if you want broadband wait a few days until sales has been informed so ordering can take place.
warning: expect HUGE waiting lists for installation, it is going to be very very very very popular.

When BB gets launched in areas they usually send techs from other areas to them to help with the installs till it all settles down so hopefully they would do the same here :)

Tristan

14-07-2003, 17:57

Here's a question. Given that STBs in this area are running CR1 (actually a funny CR1/CR2 hybrid), can they be used for STB broadband? If so, it's an easy way to beat the queues (and gets you faster '150k' to boot).

Undisputedtruth

14-07-2003, 20:00

Originally posted by grum1978
When BB gets launched in areas they usually send techs from other areas to them to help with the installs till it all settles down so hopefully they would do the same here :)

BB is now available in my area.

grum1978

14-07-2003, 20:02

Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
BB is now available in my area.

So i hear but your still not happy :confused:

BubbleGum

14-07-2003, 20:06

Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
BB is now available in my area.
So you've been on the phone to ntl and ordered it from the company you hate so much ?. When is your installation date ?.

Stuart

14-07-2003, 20:32

Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
BB is now available in my area.

Congratulations...

Sir Entiellot

14-07-2003, 22:05

Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
BB is now available in my area.

That's not the time to be laconic. Are you getting it?

You've been having verbal fits over this.

We know you will miss BT's finest Indian call centers and we are really sorry that you will have to deal with NTL's Glasgowegian riff-raff.

(I am sarcastic and I am referring to earlier udt posts)

Undisputedtruth

14-07-2003, 22:46

I really don't know whether to get NTL bb. I virtually made up my mind 6 weeks ago to get ADSL.

Reasons against NTL are:

1) Email not working properly.
2) Their service is capped.
3) I can't trust the company
4) I'm sure Bluetack will agree - below par customer services.

I'm quite happy to listen to words of wisdom.

grum1978

14-07-2003, 22:49

Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
I really don't know whether to get NTL bb. I virtually made up my mind 6 weeks ago to get ADSL.

Reasons against NTL are:

1) Email not working properly.
2) Their service is capped.
3) I can't trust the company
4) I'm sure Bluetack will agree - below par customer services.

I'm quite happy to listen to words of wisdom.

Ok..now reasons for :spin:

if you can't think of any don't bother with it ;)

kronas

15-07-2003, 01:38

Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
I really don't know whether to get NTL bb. I virtually made up my mind 6 weeks ago to get ADSL.

Reasons against NTL are:

1) Email not working properly.
2) Their service is capped.
3) I can't trust the company
4) I'm sure Bluetack will agree - below par customer services.

I'm quite happy to listen to words of wisdom.

lmao after all this time banging on about not being able to get BB fom NTL on the .com and .co.uk you have now said the above wtf was the point of all that then ? :confused:

BubbleGum

15-07-2003, 02:16

Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
I really don't know whether to get NTL bb. I virtually made up my mind 6 weeks ago to get ADSL.

Reasons against NTL are:

1) Email not working properly.
2) Their service is capped.
3) I can't trust the company
4) I'm sure Bluetack will agree - below par customer services.

I'm quite happy to listen to words of wisdom.

Admin Edit: Remarks Removed - Please don't make personal attacks on people

Cheese_Wizz

15-07-2003, 09:10

I phoned up sales last night after reading the news that some parts of SE5 are now able to get broadband.

I just received the same old reply that my area is not cabled yet and that they have no idea when I will be able to get it.

Can anyone confirm what parts of SE5 should be able to get BB??

bigitup_j

15-07-2003, 16:44

Originally posted by Cheese_Wizz
I phoned up sales last night after reading the news that some parts of SE5 are now able to get broadband.

I just received the same old reply that my area is not cabled yet and that they have no idea when I will be able to get it.

Can anyone confirm what parts of SE5 should be able to get BB??
broadband is in se5. but ntl sales have not been told yet. ntl are making sure it is all working good before hundreds of people start to connect to the service.
wait a few days before calling them again. :)

Undisputedtruth

15-07-2003, 20:45

Originally posted by Bluetack

Admin Edit: Remarks Removed - Please don't make personal attacks on people

Without sounding rude, I think you should read my post and try and understand what I'm saying. There is no need to repeat myself; is there? Unless, of course, you're reading skills is not up to scratch, then I'm more than willing to elaborate.

Undisputedtruth

15-07-2003, 20:47

Originally posted by bigitup_j
broadband is in se5. but ntl sales have not been told yet. ntl are making sure it is all working good before hundreds of people start to connect to the service.
wait a few days before calling them again. :)

I had the same problem last week, when I rang them this week bb was available.

Undisputedtruth

15-07-2003, 20:53

Originally posted by grum1978
Ok..now reasons for :spin:

if you can't think of any don't bother with it ;)

Well, the only reason for going for NTL is SACM. Cost of networking equipment is slightly cheaper on CM.

If I could get CNBC on streaming video and the quality of streaming video transmission is good then I'm quite willing to abandon NTL and move over to ADSL.

I don't think it is unreasonable to have an uncap service and emails that is secure and reliable. In fact this is my minimum standard of service. Can I honestly trust NTL to provide these services?

dingosar

15-07-2003, 20:54

Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
I had the same problem last week, when I rang them this week bb was available.

It's been a long wait UDT

sign up and enjoy what videotron never gave you :) :) :)

Undisputedtruth

15-07-2003, 21:56

Originally posted by dingosar
It's been a long wait UDT

sign up and enjoy what videotron never gave you :) :) :)

It gets even worst, those incompetant fools have ordered family pack digital TV. I never agreed to it. Ahhhhhh!

Btw, Videotron never had the chance to offer CM.

binary

16-07-2003, 10:27

Originally posted by bigitup_j (post #186)
well just to tell you postcodes SE22(main target), SE15 and SE5 now have broadband!!!

that is excellent new for people in those areas, so the ntl upgrade team move on to another area.
ntl broadband upgrade team, coming to a place near YOU! :)

the source is ntl.

This is indeed good news. Thank you for (what I very much hope is) this 'insider' information Bigitup_j, that's really what this thread is all about.

I am in one of the mentioned areas, and I await it being offered officially. As yet, it is not shown as available via the ntlhome "what's available in my area?" (http://sales.ntl.com/newdesign/newindex.jsp?new=Y&cust=null) online lookup facility. It is of course sensible behaviour from NTL's standpoint to ensure that everything is working correctly before offering it to everyone in those areas.

I'll update this thread as and when I (a) get offered broadband, and (b) successfully have it installed, up and running.

I've got other friends around London who are also waiting for broadband who arn't in these postcodes, so I hope that information about broadband rollout continues to be posted to this forum.

I am almost certain that I'll get NTL broadband- but it'd be good if someone could fill me in on what the bandwidth cap is? Basically I can see myself using the web & email of course, listening/ watching some streaming content and downloading a some tunes from Kazaa (the copyright association's favourite internet app ;) ).

I guess it's using Kazaa or other Peer-to-Peer file sharing systems that'll eat the bandwidth- though I don't see myself using it particularly heavily (the sound quality isn't that good).

Chris

16-07-2003, 10:58

Originally posted by binary
I am almost certain that I'll get NTL broadband- but it'd be good if someone could fill me in on what the bandwidth cap is? Basically I can see myself using the web & email of course, listening/ watching some streaming content and downloading a some tunes from Kazaa (the copyright association's favourite internet app ;) ).

I guess it's using Kazaa or other Peer-to-Peer file sharing systems that'll eat the bandwidth- though I don't see myself using it particularly heavily (the sound quality isn't that good).

There isn't a cap in the sense that once you reach a certain quota, it automatically cuts you off. The are saying that if you go over a certain amount too often, they reserve the right to ask you to ease off, warn you they will cut you off, and then disconnect you. So far, ntl has yet to enforce the 'cap' on anyone, apparently.

I will leave other people to say exactly how much you have to download, and how often, before you are liable for a telling off, as I don't know ...