View Full Version : *MERGED* Militant Cyclists & Joggers
I like to cycle myself in the summer
but I can't stant those militant ones you see in the traffic
dayglo stipes everywhere - helmet - po-faced - you know the sort
saw one this morning whacking the side of a car for no apparent reason
Enterian
16-12-2003, 09:30
Agreed - as a cyclist myself I'm embarrased by the actions of some of them - Cycling Nazis I call them. Smothered in day-glo lycra!
Agreed - as a cyclist myself I'm embarrased by the actions of some of them - Cycling Nazis I call them. Smothered in day-glo lycra!
they seem to think that all car drivers are one and the same - they are "car-ist"
The Diplomat
16-12-2003, 09:42
I like to cycle myself in the summer
but I can't stant those militant ones you see in the traffic
dayglo stipes everywhere - helmet - po-faced - you know the sort
saw one this morning whacking the side of a car for no apparent reason
And then probably rode through a red traffic light, or up onto the pavement... :rolleyes:
Lord Nikon
16-12-2003, 09:58
I think there should be a law brought into place regarding cyclists.
Currently they are the ONLY road user not required to pass a test before using the road, not required to have their vehicle inspected annually and therefore not responsible for problems they cause.
Cyclists should have to take a Cycling Proficiency test to ride on the roads, to show they have SOME road sense, Their cycles should be inspected annually and some form of MOT issued, also they should carry license plates.
Age shouldn't be a limitation on whether they use the cycle on the road, but a basic road knowlege would not go amiss.
Why should every other road user be bound by the laws of the road and them be free to do as they please?
They are THE most vulnerable road user, and yet they are in some (not all) cases the ones responsible for the accidents they are involved in. Ignoring road signs, riding at night with no form of lighting, bald tyres which only get changed when the cloth wears through, swerving without notice or just generally unstable on a bike.
To ride a motorcycle a test is compulsory, as is an annual check to ensure the vehicle is safe (at least at the time of the test) Same for a car. Why not for a cycle?
Example - a cyclist rides out of a sidestreet without warning, you hit your brakes, a car runs up the back of you...
The car that hit you is at fault, The cyclist gets away from the scene and you have no way of establishing who it was, no number plate, generic cycle and no eyewitnesses can identify them.
The cyclist caused the accident, yet cannot be found.
This needs to be redressed.
and there is the issue of 3rd party insurance. If a cyclist rides into my car, why the heck should I have to claim on my insurance as cyclists dont have any?
paulyoung666
16-12-2003, 10:04
I think there should be a law brought into place regarding cyclists.
Currently they are the ONLY road user not required to pass a test before using the road, not required to have their vehicle inspected annually and therefore not responsible for problems they cause.
Cyclists should have to take a Cycling Proficiency test to ride on the roads, to show they have SOME road sense, Their cycles should be inspected annually and some form of MOT issued, also they should carry license plates.
Age shouldn't be a limitation on whether they use the cycle on the road, but a basic road knowlege would not go amiss.
Why should every other road user be bound by the laws of the road and them be free to do as they please?
They are THE most vulnerable road user, and yet they are in some (not all) cases the ones responsible for the accidents they are involved in. Ignoring road signs, riding at night with no form of lighting, bald tyres which only get changed when the cloth wears through, swerving without notice or just generally unstable on a bike.
To ride a motorcycle a test is compulsory, as is an annual check to ensure the vehicle is safe (at least at the time of the test) Same for a car. Why not for a cycle?
Example - a cyclist rides out of a sidestreet without warning, you hit your brakes, a car runs up the back of you...
The car that hit you is at fault, The cyclist gets away from the scene and you have no way of establishing who it was, no number plate, generic cycle and no eyewitnesses can identify them.
The cyclist caused the accident, yet cannot be found.
This needs to be redressed.
or you are driving quite legally down the road and a bike appears in front of you , you hit it and the father comes out and bawls you out for hitting there kid even though they were in the wrong :( , then you have a damaged car without it being your fault , because the kid is not insured you cant do a thing about it :afire: :afire: :afire: , been there done that :(
salu beat me to it :(
cycling through red lights is half the fun of summer cycling
I don't see a problem with that as long as you are not too reckless or are wearing a naff luminous strip
also - it's an excellent way to get back from the pub since they stopped everybody going down there in cars
its this bicycle clipped - covered in accessories - kagoule wearing type that irritates me
one whacked my car as I passed him once - I stopped and asked him what he thought he was upto - he then flew into a rage about me being too close to him - silly b@stard - probably worked in local government - I could sense it
The Diplomat
16-12-2003, 10:09
Is it in Holland where the cyclist is NEVER deemed to be responsible for an accident?
The vehicle driver is ALWAYS at fault. :cry:
Lord Nikon
16-12-2003, 10:10
my response would have been "I have a license which proves I have a working knowlege of the highway code, where is yours?"
one whacked my car as I passed him once - I stopped and asked him what he thought he was upto - he then flew into a rage about me being too close to him - silly b@stard - probably worked in local government - I could sense it
If he could 'whack' your car as you passed.....YOU WERE TOO CLOSE !!!!!!!!
It's difficult enough cycling in this weather, rain blinds you, gusty wind causes you to wobble, glass in the gutter (which is where we have to cycle !) causes you to avoid it, not to mention those 'local govt workers' who pull right over to the kerb when a car is turning right in front so you can't get past. Yeh like they are gonna get through !! :afire:
Example - a cyclist rides out of a sidestreet without warning, you hit your brakes, a car runs up the back of you...
The car that hit you is at fault, The cyclist gets away from the scene and you have no way of establishing who it was, no number plate, generic cycle and no eyewitnesses can identify them.
The cyclist caused the accident, yet cannot be found.
Same scenario, only this time with motorcycle or car. Are you going to be able to read and remember a number plate in this weather ?? Unlikely.
Cyclists are generally amongst the safest of road users (with a few notable exceptions !) .....they have to be to stay alive. Think who comes off worst in an accident between car / lorry / bus and a bicycle ????
Only two days ago I had to swerve and brake because a car cut a corner on me. My front wheel hit an ice patch and now I sport a badly grazed knee, shin and pride plus one pedal is slightly out of 'skew'. Not much I grant you, but the driver was blissfully unaware of what they had done and carried on in their nice cosy car listening to the radio no doubt !! :mad:
my response would have been "I have a license which proves I have a working knowlege of the highway code, where is yours?"
And I would produce mine (licence that is !). I've driven a car for 39 years now, although I cycle to work and back daily (yes, whatever the weather !)
Cyclists should pay road tax
Cyclists should have 3rd party insurance
Cyclists should pass a highway code test
Cycles should have a road worthyness certificate
Cycles for road use should have lights lights
Cyclists that cyle on the footway should be fined
Cyclists that mount the footway and cycle round traffic lights should be fined. (if they dismount and walk their cycles that's OK)
Cyclists that drink and cycle should be fined
If cyclists want to use our roads they should observe the laws of the road and contribute to their maintenance. I own a Car and Motor bike and have to pay tax on both, so why should cycles be taxed??
Enterian
16-12-2003, 11:26
and there is the issue of 3rd party insurance. If a cyclist rides into my car, why the heck should I have to claim on my insurance as cyclists dont have any?
Last week I came off my bike after colliding with a pedestrian who walked out into the road without looking. Surely by your argument pedestrians should also have third party insurance?
And before you say anything: NO I was not cycling on the pavement and YES I did have lights on.
Cyclists should pay road tax
Cyclists should have ....:blah: :blah:.... :zzz: .....
By the same argument: Pedestrians should have ... :blah: :blah: .... :zzz:
With the ever increasing compensation culture that this country has, personal 3rd part insurance may well become a neccesity. I play golf, and although I don't have insurance, I know many players that do. In case they hit someone with a golf ball !!!
The worlds gone mad
Enterian
16-12-2003, 11:44
And I would produce mine (licence that is !). I've driven a car for 39 years now, although I cycle to work and back daily (yes, whatever the weather !)
And I would produce my 16 year-old diving licence, Advanced Driving Test pass certificate, and Membership Card of the Institute of Advanced Motorists!
I like to cycle myself in the summer
but I can't stant those militant ones you see in the traffic
dayglo stipes everywhere - helmet - po-faced - you know the sort
You mean the ones who have the good sense to realise that most motorists don't pay enough attention, that many motorists think they have right of way because they have to pay "Road Tax" (see elsewhere) to "use the road" (they don't) and that want every possible advantage to keep themselves alive because in an argument between 100KG of cycle and rider and 1 Tonne of car, *they* are going to come off the worst?
saw one this morning whacking the side of a car for no apparent reason
Interesting expression "no *apparent* reason".
Whilst I don't support that sort of behaviour, do *you* really know that there was *no* reason at all? I doubt it.
And then probably rode through a red traffic light, or up onto the pavement... :rolleyes:
Still, at least they weren't using their mobile phone, or looking totally in the wrong direction, or picking their nose, or fiddling with their radio, or failing to give way at a junction to a cyclist who is entitled by law to priority, or failing to undertake proper observation so they don't even *see* the cyclist, or cutting them up in traffic...
Yes, certainly you can have your big tar brush back now...
Scarlett
16-12-2003, 11:55
The problem exists on both sides of the fence, I have seen cyclists who just go where they want, when they want and don't think to look behind them (and anyone who's driven in Cambridge will know what I mean).
I've also had problems with other car drivers who seem to think that I must be phsycic judging from the way they drive.
Until we get these people off the road this will continue but it seems that the same group of people are at fault both times, i.e. those that do not consider other road users.
It's clear that the posters to this thread appear to be in the other group that do consider other road users and the problem seems not to be that cyclists are good/bad on the road but that people, be they cyclists or car drivers (or both), either think that the road is there specifiaclly for them or that the road is there for all to use equaly.
BTW, This group of people can also hold there hands up for all the extra £ÃÆ ’‚£Ãà¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚£ that I have pay for car insurance!
homealone
16-12-2003, 11:56
http://blogs.nthellworld.co.uk/homealone/
I think there should be a law brought into place regarding cyclists.
I think there *are* laws in place regarding cyclists.
Currently they are the ONLY road user not required to pass a test before using the road,
I would not argue against a sensible programme of cycling instruction.
not required to have their vehicle inspected annually and therefore not responsible for problems they cause.
The law already requires that cycles be kept in IIRC "good mechanical order" and that they have lights to use at night. There is nothing which says that "cyclists are not responsible for the problems they cause".
(NB Cyclists can receive "on the spot" fines of £30 for each light they don't have.)
However as regards a cycle "MOT", there is a massive difference between a cycle and any other common road vehicle. Consider the individual parts of a cycle and you realise there aren't exactly many of them:
Tyres, brakes, "drive train" (chain, gears, pedals), headset/ handlebars, frame, reflectors, lights and, well that's really about it!
Now if any one of those fails (except for lights and reflectors), the bike probably isn't going anywhere until it's fixed anyway, so a requirement to *prove* they work is rather pointless.
they should carry license plates.
A perennial suggestion with several major drawbacks:
1) Where would you put the licence plate without making it either too small to read, redesigning the bike, having it obscured by the rider or making it a physical hazard?
2) Licencing schemes are *expensive*. They require administration, notification, enforcement etc etc. The fact is that the only way to make such a system work would cost so much that it would price a lot of cyclists off the road entirely.
3) Cycle licencing schemes have been tried in various parts of the world including several areas of the United States and have been found to be unworkable and a waste of taxpayers' money and Police time.
Why should every other road user be bound by the laws of the road and them be free to do as they please?
Sorry? Just because some cyclists break the law or act in irresponsible ways does *NOT* mean that they are "free to do as they please"!
They are THE most vulnerable road user, and yet they are in some (not all) cases the ones responsible for the accidents they are involved in.
Yes, they are responsible for *SOME* of the accidents, especially if riding irresponsibly, but the *dangerous* accidents tend to be the ones that tend to involve motorists and the "sorry mate, I didn't see you" syndrome.
or just generally unstable on a bike.
Quoting from paragraph 136 of the highway code: "be aware of other vehicles especially cycles and motorcycles. These are more difficult to see than larger vehicles and their riders are particularly vulnerable. Give them plenty of room, especially if you are driving a long vehicle or towing a trailer"
Example - a cyclist rides out of a sidestreet without warning, you hit your brakes, a car runs up the back of you...
The car that hit you is at fault, The cyclist gets away from the scene and you have no way of establishing who it was, no number plate, generic cycle and no eyewitnesses can identify them.
The cyclist caused the accident, yet cannot be found.
This needs to be redressed.
This is utter nonsense.
You say it yourself "The car that hit you is at fault", not the cyclist/ small child/ mother with pram, but the driver who was *too close* behind you. Full stop. End of story.
my response would have been "I have a license which proves I have a working knowlege of the highway code, where is yours?"
ROFL!
Sorry, how many drivers have ever even *LOOKED* at a copy of their Highway Code since they passed their driving test???
1) I love it when you're walking on the pavement and you have to jump out of the way when a cyclist goes by on the pavement. It makes it even better when they look at you like you're the muppet for walking on the pavement in the first place.
2) I love it when you walk round a corner and you walk into a cyclist who didn't obviously think that there could be a pedestrian coming.
I don't drive or cycle, I'm a pedestrian.
Sorry, rant over.
Lord Nikon
16-12-2003, 12:43
[snip]
Same scenario, only this time with motorcycle or car. Are you going to be able to read and remember a number plate in this weather ?? Unlikely.
Personally? unlikely if I was the driver, HOWEVER, this is where witnesses are useful. A license plate would be an identifying mark on the cycle which WOULD allow someone to take note of it.
Cyclists are generally amongst the safest of road users (with a few notable exceptions !) .....they have to be to stay alive. Think who comes off worst in an accident between car / lorry / bus and a bicycle ????
Speaking as a former cyclist (who took the Cycling Proficiency, who has a bike licence, who has also taken skid pan training in a car etc) They are not. How many cyclists try to squeeze the last possible mile out of a bald tyre? How many cyclists know their tyre pressures? How many cyclists have misaligned deralieurs on their gears? How many cyclists have working brakes both front & rear? How many cyclists have loose spokes on their wheels? Damaged Pedals? Loose Front bearings? Kinked Wheels?
Those mechanical problems many leave on their bikes are WHY I say they should have an MOT equivalent. Many cyclists are not aware of some of the problems, same as many car drivers are ignorant of mechanical problems until their car fails the MOT.
With more and more people returning to cycling as a means of transportation we MUST for EVERYONE's safety start imposing regulations on cycle safety.
Yes, I FULLY agree that in an accident the cyclist comes off worse, be it their fault, the cycle's fault, or the other person's fault, but lets start making the cycles people ride safer for them by reducing the amount of accidents caused by inept riders or mechanical faults on the bike.
Only two days ago I had to swerve and brake because a car cut a corner on me. My front wheel hit an ice patch and now I sport a badly grazed knee, shin and pride plus one pedal is slightly out of 'skew'. Not much I grant you, but the driver was blissfully unaware of what they had done and carried on in their nice cosy car listening to the radio no doubt !! :mad:
There is no excuse for an ignorant driver, and I am not trying to make one. However as you said, your pedal is now out of 'skew' and will either require you to obtain a new set of pedals or a new crank. Something I am sure you are already looking into. However, what I AM saying is many cyclists would continue to ride the bike as is, and not get it checked for any less obvious defects which could result in another accident at a later point.
do you reckon they
should give mothers proficiency tests with
pushchairs
as they are always shoving them into you ankles in shopping centres and into the road between parked cars
my advice - take care with the pushchair
especially at this time of year - lots of ankles around
If he could 'whack' your car as you passed.....YOU WERE TOO CLOSE !!!!!!!!
It's difficult enough cycling in this weather, rain blinds you, gusty wind causes you to wobble, glass in the gutter (which is where we have to cycle !) causes you to avoid it, not to mention those 'local govt workers' who pull right over to the kerb when a car is turning right in front so you can't get past. Yeh like they are gonna get through !! :afire:
Same scenario, only this time with motorcycle or car. Are you going to be able to read and remember a number plate in this weather ?? Unlikely.
Cyclists are generally amongst the safest of road users (with a few notable exceptions !) .....they have to be to stay alive. Think who comes off worst in an accident between car / lorry / bus and a bicycle ????
Only two days ago I had to swerve and brake because a car cut a corner on me. My front wheel hit an ice patch and now I sport a badly grazed knee, shin and pride plus one pedal is slightly out of 'skew'. Not much I grant you, but the driver was blissfully unaware of what they had done and carried on in their nice cosy car listening to the radio no doubt !! :mad:
I dont think the non-cyclists were generalising about all cyclists, but I hate it when I pull up to a traffic light and the cyclist comes up the inside and then pulls straight in front of me and stops with his right foot in front of my car. When the light changes to green I am then being held up by this cyclist who is now directly in front of me, he has gained nothing himself but annoyed other road users with his actions. I used to cycle but think that the roads are too busy and unsafe to do so these days, I also hate when they look over their shoulder at you and drive straight off the pavement they have been travelling on knowing that you will swerve or brake for them because the car is always in the wrong.
"Many" not all cyclists are like some pedestrians, they will not use any road/traffic sense and are certainly not considered to be in the wrong when they get knocked over by a car.
It's a cold fact that I always ask, How many pedestrians are knocked over whilst walking down the pavement. I also get annoyed when someone walks out into the road and gets run-over, the driver fails the breath test and it's his fault entirely. No way do I agree with drink driving, but no way do I agree with putting the blame on it in cases where a pedestrian just walked drunken possibly himself into the road.
I think too much pressure is put on motorists who are not to blame in road accidents involving Bikes or Pedestrians. If the vehicle driver was following the highway code he should not be made to look like some very guilty person, an accident is an accident and people should not look for easy targets to apportion the blame.
The Diplomat
16-12-2003, 12:51
Graham, I wasn't suggesting for one minute that ALL cylclists jump red lights/ride on the pavement .... it just seems to happen quite often, and more importantly, NEVER seems to be punished. Unlike the motorists who are persecuted for the slightest transgressions. :(
Try popping down to The Hard when the Gosport Ferry comes in and count the cyclists on the pavement there... or Southsea seafront .... or Commercial Road precinct.
Is it an offence for a cyclist to use a mobile phone whilst riding a bike?
Lord Nikon
16-12-2003, 12:52
To address both your posts Graham...
Firstly - Yes, BUT the cycle was a contributory factor. The license plate would be the Cyclists home postcode plus house number, a form of registration some cyclists are already stamping into the frame for anti theft purposes.
As for how often do motorists look at the highway code? not often in some cases, in a survey a few years ago, some drivers were not aware of the meaning of quite a few road signs they saw regularly. This should also be addressed.
The current driving licence system is ludicrous. You pass your test at 17/18 and that's all you need to do till you are 70. IMHO Eye tests should be compulsory every 2 years (as the opticians etc recommend anyway) and a driver knowlege test every 10 years or so.
eye sight can deteriorate a hell of a lot in the 53 years a license is valid for, and if this deterioration is gradual then you may not be aware of the problem until you have an accident.
......., but I hate it when I pull up to a traffic light and the cyclist comes up the inside and then pulls straight in front of me and stops with his right foot in front of my car. When the light changes to green I am then being held up by this cyclist who is now directly in front of me, he has gained nothing himself but annoyed other road users with his actions.
And who said here how they hate cyclists who go on the pavement at traffic lights !! :( Seems you're damned if you do, damned if you don't :shrug:
I used to cycle but think that the roads are too busy and unsafe to do so these days,
Now I wonder whose fault that is, oh yes all these thousands of cyclists barrelling all over the place. Don't think so ! :nono:
I also hate when they look over their shoulder at you and drive straight off the pavement they have been travelling on knowing that you will swerve or brake for them because the car is always in the wrong.
I think this is foolhardy on behalf of any cyclist since it is only he who will end in hospital !
"Many" not all cyclists are like some pedestrians, they will not use any road/traffic sense and are certainly not considered to be in the wrong when they get knocked over by a car.
The "many" are probably young children who should be given due consideration whether walking or cycling.
It's a cold fact that I always ask, How many pedestrians are knocked over whilst walking down the pavement. I also get annoyed when someone walks out into the road and gets run-over, the driver fails the breath test and it's his fault entirely. No way do I agree with drink driving, but no way do I agree with putting the blame on it in cases where a pedestrian just walked drunken possibly himself into the road.
I think too much pressure is put on motorists who are not to blame in road accidents involving Bikes or Pedestrians. If the vehicle driver was following the highway code he should not be made to look like some very guilty person, an accident is an accident and people should not look for easy targets to apportion the blame.
It's the cyclists and pedestrians who are the easy targets !!
The laws of the road apply to ALL users whether on 2 or 4 wheels or legs.
do you reckon they
should give mothers proficiency tests with
pushchairs
as they are always shoving them into <snip> the road between parked cars
my advice - take care with the pushchair
especially at this time of year - lots of ankles around
Round my way they push them into the road because the ignorant car drivers are parked on the bloody pavement so you cant get a bloody pushchair past them (I 'key' those cars !!!) :mad:
I 'key' those cars !!! :mad:
charming behaviour
If he could 'whack' your car as you passed.....YOU WERE TOO CLOSE !!!!!!!!
It's difficult enough cycling in this weather, rain blinds you, gusty wind causes you to wobble, glass in the gutter (which is where we have to cycle !) causes you to avoid it, not to mention those 'local govt workers' who pull right over to the kerb when a car is turning right in front so you can't get past. Yeh like they are gonna get through !! :afire:
Sorry, but if the weather conditions are bad enough to affect your ability to control your bike, then you should not be out riding, no excuse.
If you don't have a vehicle that can cope with this weather, then take the bus, hire a taxi, or walk.
Going out knowing you will not be able to handle your vehicle in a normal manner because of the weather conditions is highly irresponsible!
If a car is too close to the pavement for you to get past, then you simply have to wait for them to move, it's not that hard to comprehend is it?
Cyclists always amaze me when they go on congestion protests and invade brighton. I think the irony is lost on them as they cause brighton to grind to a halt with the congestion they cause, not to mention the accidents as they are all over the place, changing lanes without without hand signals, kicking cars should they dare to turn left, even if they've been indicating for the past minute!
Sorry, but if the weather conditions are bad enough to affect your ability to control your bike, then you should not be out riding, no excuse.
If you don't have a vehicle that can cope with this weather, then take the bus, hire a taxi, or walk.
Going out knowing you will not be able to handle your vehicle in a normal manner because of the weather conditions is highly irresponsible!
Your arrogance is breathtaking !! So I should walk if the weather is bad ?? Try telling that to lorry drivers whose vehicles weave and swerve on the motorway in high winds. Do you leave your car at home when the roads are icy ?? The point is you should give cyclists enough room anyway...READ the Highway Code !! You are NOT the only road users..cyclists like pedestrians have a legitimate right to go about their business. Get real !
If a car is too close to the pavement for you to get past, then you simply have to wait for them to move, it's not that hard to comprehend is it?
More arrogance ! How arrogant is it to impede a cyclist, who remember has to PEDDLE to get along. Why pull in to the kerb in a pitifully vain attempt to pass where nothing wider than a bike can get through ?? That is plain and simple ignorance and lack of care for others. Many, many times I have had to brake hard or swerve just because motorists fail to acknowlege even my presence.
I suppose I should wait for a gap in the traffic before I overtake parked vehicles ?? Why do ignorant and arrogant drivers like you think you own the road ?? I pay VED just like everyone else.
Cyclists always amaze me when they go on congestion protests and invade brighton. I think the irony is lost on them as they cause brighton to grind to a halt with the congestion they cause, not to mention the accidents as they are all over the place, changing lanes without without hand signals, kicking cars should they dare to turn left, even if they've been indicating for the past minute!
It obviously amazes you they are even allowed on the road !!! The irony is far from lost...they are trying to make a valid point that it is vehicles...too many of them...that cause congestion. Drivers going to collect their morning papers, mothers taking kids to school, single drivers going to work. THEY should all take the bus or walk, oh, or even CYCLE !! Oh and btw just because a car indicates to turn left it doesn't give them the right to carve up a cyclist whilst doing it .. they should slow down and turn behind the cycle not over it !!! I've had loads indicating as they pass me and just turn !!!
I'd better sign off now as I'm losing my temper !! :disturbd:
I'm a driver and a cyclist. Its kinda wierd but the feelings I have when I'm in my car I hate cyclists and when I'm on my bike I hate car drivers. Being extreme to make a point but I'll explain in abit.
I agree with alot of what people have said earlier. As a cyclist I agree with us having to pass proficiency tests, getting insurance and licences and mot's. I don't think we should pay road fund licence though as we should be encouraging more people to cycle. There needs to be an incentive to cycle and to put severe financial obstacles in the way won't do that.
When I'm in my car I see things from a drivers perspective. I see cyclists going through red lights, I see them bashing wing mirrors as they squeeze up the inside at traffic lights. I see them fly off pavements accross roads and go up one way streets the wrong way. As a car driver I've parked up at red lights close to the kerb to prevent bikes getting past. My thinking is I'd rather he was behind me as that way he'll not scratch my paint (which I can't do anything about) when he tries to sqeeze past. Plus when I turn left at the lights I won't have him ****ing about going straight on coming up my inside. The fact is many cyclists are dangerous and shouldn't be on the road.
When I'm on my bike I see things from a cyclists perspective. I see cars going through red lights, I see cars turning left in front of me, I see cars pulling out of junctions right in front of me, I see cars passing me so close that the wing mirrors fractionally miss me, I see car drivers shouting abuse at me cos it takes them longer to get past. The fact is many drivers are dangerous and shouldn't be on the road.
So.... my point I guess is that the roads are full of people who shouldn't be on it. Its all very well saying cyclists should be tested and given mot's but the fact is drivers have to pass a test and they are loads of them who are still dangerous. Having a test won't work, it has to be a good test. Drivers have to be tested properly too and the current driving test is far too easy, add to that that people only get tested once and then drive for the rest of their life.
Being both a driver and cyclist I like to think I'm able to be objective about things on the road. As a cyclist I try never to go through red lights, don't sneak up the inside of cars and try to go straight in the road as opposed to weaving in and out of parked cars. I try to be the cyclist I'd like to overtake if I was a driver. As a driver I try and give cyclists loads of room, understand that its difficult for them to get into the right hand lane to turn when they are in a slow vehicle. The one thing I do as a cyclist which I shouldn't is go on the pavement. Its only briefly though travelling through underpasses to get onto another road or the little bit of pavement just before going into a park. I know I shouldn't but it really is too much hassle to get off the bike whenever you want to go into a park or cross between 2 roads. I try to be cognizant of pedestrians though and always give them the right of way. If there are any elderly people I'll make sure I stop way away from them and let them past safely giving them a smile and a hello.
What I'd like to see though is people being objective. There are bad cyclists out there and bad drivers and we can't just blame one party. Ideally we should all be cycling as its good for us and good for the environment. What I'd like to see though is quiter roads, because only those who've passed stringent tests are able to drive, not just every tom dick and harry who can afford a cheapo banger. Moral of the story is test cyclists and re-test drivers. Every 5 years make people resit their driving tests. Will create more jobs, reduce congestion, reduce accidents and better still those people who are driving on our roads are those who are best equipped to do so.
Your arrogance is breathtaking !! So I should walk if the weather is bad ?? Try telling that to lorry drivers whose vehicles weave and swerve on the motorway in high winds. Do you leave your car at home when the roads are icy ?? The point is you should give cyclists enough room anyway...READ the Highway Code !! You are NOT the only road users..cyclists like pedestrians have a legitimate right to go about their business. Get real !
Pot to kettle!
Yes, if drivers of high sided vehicles drive in such a manner that wind causes them to weave over the road then they should be pulled over and charged with dangerous driving. Lorry drivers are taught that in such conditions you SLOW DOWN and therefore sidewinds are easier to deal with, negating the danger.
If the weather is too bad to cycle safely under control, then yes you should walk, isn't that simple common sense?
If the roads are icy, or wet from rain, then I drive slow enough to negate the danger, ensuring I leave more than enough space between myself and the vehicle in front.
If the roads are too icy to drive (which living near the sea is rare) then I will not drive.
Yes cars should give cyclists the same amount of space they give other vehicles, I give at least 1.5 door lengths when over taking, but if a driver feels they need to move over to the pavement before turning right, which *boo-hoo* holds you up for 5 seconds, well tough!
I suppose I should wait for a gap in the traffic before I overtake parked vehicles ?? Why do ignorant and arrogant drivers like you think you own the road ?? I pay VED just like everyone else.
If you a cycling along with the traffic, overtaking you (or perhaps not as many of my cyclist friends are able to cruise at 30mph), and you spot a parked car up ahead, well you look over your shoulder as a safety check, give a hand signal (no not two fingers!) showing that you intend to pull out, repeat the safety check, move out and over take (you know, I'm sure cyclits are taught this as part of their proficiency test)
What has VED got to do with it? Don't tell me your one of those "I pay my taxes I can do what I like" people?
It obviously amazes you they are even allowed on the road !!! The irony is far from lost...they are trying to make a valid point that it is vehicles...too many of them...that cause congestion. Drivers going to collect their morning papers, mothers taking kids to school, single drivers going to work. THEY should all take the bus or walk, oh, or even CYCLE !!
See? The irony is lost :rolleyes:
Congestion in brighton isn't too bad UNTIL the cyclists invade!
Of course if they adheared to the highway code then they probably wouldn't cause so much congestion, but most of them aren't, they're all over the place, without signalling, ignoring vehicles's indicators etc.
Oh and btw just because a car indicates to turn left it doesn't give them the right to carve up a cyclist whilst doing it .. they should slow down and turn behind the cycle not over it !!! I've had loads indicating as they pass me and just turn !!!
Drivers who can't wait the few extra seconds following a bike for it to go past the junction before they turn and decide to over take, then swerve across the path of the cyclist have no excuse, but I wasn't talking about those gits.
I've been in a lane of slow moving traffic, seen a car in front indicating to turn left, only to have a cyclist fly past on the inside. Thankfully the motorist did check his mirror and hit the brakes, only to have the cyclist (who didn't see/ignored the indicators) hurl a load of abuse!
I have been both cycalist and driver.It's hard competing with a lorry or bus at a junction-it's the one reason I gave up cycling.The drivers always seemed to go out of their way to cut me up.
Anyway that wasn't the point I wanted to raise.
In Gosport and it's boroughs there are very many cycle ways and off road cycle paths provided by the local taxpayers.
What gets up my nose as a driver is that there are always one or two twerps who INSIST on riding in the road when they have a beautiful newly laid cyclepath 5 metres to their left.WHY? It's usually the dayglo clad speed nitwit who is guilty of this.
I can't help thinking that if such cycleways are provided then it should be manditory for cyclists to use 'em.Otherwise why am I paying for the fecking things?
No it's not just for the kids to use to and from school it's for everyone you morons.You pay for it ,I pay for it.SO damn well use it-it's in a much better condition than the gutter you are insisting on using. :afire:
Sorry rant over.
Incog. :)
You mean like the cycleways along the A32 which shortly after they created, the council came along and resurfaced the road so the cycle lanes had to be re-done?
That amazed me!
Anyway, I totally agree with you, if cycle lanes are available, then they should be mandatory for cyclists.
homealone
16-12-2003, 18:24
Some very interesting points raised in this thread. I was very impressed with Nor's dual perspective, especially. I also both drive & cycle (cycle every day to work & back in all weathers) & sympathise with both cyclists & drivers. The thing is we all owe each other a duty of care - the cyclist should make sure they are visible & respect the fact that in an 'argument' with a vehicle, they will come off worse, the driver should respect that bikes are inherently vulnerable & give them space.
As for cycle lanes, I am all for them if they are separate from the road, while taking Incog's point that if provided, they should be used. However, the cycle lanes that have been incorporated into existing roads are a waste of space in my opinion, especially the ones that allow parking in them - and inevitably some people park in the ones where they shouldn't - which means the road has effectively been narrowed & is more dangereous than if the lane wasn't there.
I have cycled to work for about the last 25 years, both here & in London (try the Rotherhithe Tunnel sometime - you HAVE to go on the pavement in there, there is no room for two cars & a bike in such a narrow space) and have survived without major incident, so far, so I can't be doing too much wrong. But I have seen some horrific behaviour from both cyclists & drivers in that time - so neither group should be complacent!
Gaz
I can't help thinking that if such cycleways are provided then it should be manditory for cyclists to use 'em.Otherwise why am I paying for the fecking things?
No it's not just for the kids to use to and from school it's for everyone you morons.You pay for it ,I pay for it.SO damn well use it-it's in a much better condition than the gutter you are insisting on using. :afire:
Sorry rant over.
Incog. :)
Agreed, but within reason ;)
There's quite a few cycle paths (psychopaths?) here in Nottingham, but not all of them are equally usable. I know one place where they painted half the foot path red, to indicate it is a cycle path. Thing is, the original foot path was not very wide, and has a tree every 20 yards or so. The red cycle path is not much wider than the trees, so it is interrupted every 20 yards, and you have to swerve onto the foot path to avoid crashing into the tree :erm: What nutter has thought that up???
Agreed, but within reason ;)
There's quite a few cycle paths (psychopaths?) here in Nottingham, but not all of them are equally usable. I know one place where they painted half the foot path red, to indicate it is a cycle path. Thing is, the original foot path was not very wide, and has a tree every 20 yards or so. The red cycle path is not much wider than the trees, so it is interrupted every 20 yards, and you have to swerve onto the foot path to avoid crashing into the tree :erm: What nutter has thought that up???
Agreed that's terrible.
However I'm talking about some brand new purpose built, less than a year old cycle tracks that are off road.Gosport has a whole lot of them,most of which are placed along the old railway trackways.They are more than wide enough for pedestrians and cyclists and most are very pleasant to ride along.I used to use them myself with a child strapped in the child seat on the back.It was a good way to get around.I just don't understand why the macho types won't use 'em.
:shrug:
Incog. :)
Agreed that's terrible.
However I'm talking about some brand new purpose built, less than a year old cycle tracks that are off road.Gosport has a whole lot of them,most of which are placed along the old railway trackways.They are more than wide enough for pedestrians and cyclists and most are very pleasant to ride along.I used to use them myself with a child strapped in the child seat on the back.It was a good way to get around.I just don't understand why the macho types won't use 'em.
:shrug:
Incog. :)
I don't know what they're like around Gosport, but many of the cycle lanes I've used and/or seen are worse than useless. Not gritted during the winter (fond memories of last winter, going to work sliding along on my arse), covered in waste (glass is a favourite) because they aren't swept clear by the tyres of heavier vehicles as roads are and often full of kamikaze pedestrians and even worse, their dogs, many of whom seem to like the idea of a mouthful of nice muscular calf.
Of course, if you hit the dog that was off its lead and darted out of the bushes into your front wheel, then it's certainly not the owner's fault, is it?
I don't know what they're like around Gosport, but many of the cycle lanes I've used and/or seen are worse than useless. Not gritted during the winter (fond memories of last winter, going to work sliding along on my arse), covered in waste (glass is a favourite) because they aren't swept clear by the tyres of heavier vehicles as roads are and often full of kamikaze pedestrians and even worse, their dogs, many of whom seem to like the idea of a mouthful of nice muscular calf.
Of course, if you hit the dog that was off its lead and darted out of the bushes into your front wheel, then it's certainly not the owner's fault, is it?
Still a better proposition than being knocked down by cars,buses and lorries surely?
Incog. :Peaceman:
Sorry, but if the weather conditions are bad enough to affect your ability to control your bike, then you should not be out riding, no excuse.
If you don't have a vehicle that can cope with this weather, then take the bus, hire a taxi, or walk.
Pardon me if I say this is *utter rubbish* and incredibly arrogant as well!
If you are driving in heavy rain or fog, do you give extra distance to the vehicle in front of you in case they stop?
Yes? (If no, well you bloody well should!)
So *WHY* do you appear to think that you should *NOT* give extra room to cyclists in rainy/ windy weather??? *WHY* do you seem to think that cyclists should not get in *your* way and if they might, they should get off and take some other form of transport instead?!
Going out knowing you will not be able to handle your vehicle in a normal manner because of the weather conditions is highly irresponsible!
Do you think that car drivers should not drive in the rain or snow or fog? Braking distances are increased, visibility is decreased, steering may be affected. All of those mean that "you will not be able to handle your vehicle in a normal manner", so maybe *you* should get out and walk too...!!!
Cyclists always amaze me when they go on congestion protests and invade brighton. I think the irony is lost on them as they cause brighton to grind to a halt with the congestion they cause,
I think the irony (not to mention the point) is lost on *you*!!!
Just *how many* cyclists do you see there? Now imagine that they were, instead, in cars, (one to a vehicle!!) and consider just how much *more* space they would take up!
I once saw some pictures a cycle protest where they'd rigged some bikes with metal frames that were the equivalent size of a standard car. It clearly demonstrated how you could easily fit *at least* six cycles in the same space that *one* car driver regularly uses!!
not to mention the accidents as they are all over the place, changing lanes without without hand signals, kicking cars should they dare to turn left, even if they've been indicating for the past minute!
Thus speaks someone who has most probably never ridden a bike in traffic and has never had someone *WITHOUT INDICATING* turn left, directly across the front of them, requiring rapid avoiding action or an emergency stop to avoid getting a face full of car!
And as for "changing lanes without signals" I suggest next time you're out, you see how many *car drivers* indicate properly when they undertake that manoevure and remember that *they* are surrounded by a tonne of metal that's going to cause a lot more damage than a bicycle.
In Gosport and it's boroughs there are very many cycle ways and off road cycle paths provided by the local taxpayers.
What gets up my nose as a driver is that there are always one or two twerps who INSIST on riding in the road when they have a beautiful newly laid cyclepath 5 metres to their left.WHY? It's usually the dayglo clad speed nitwit who is guilty of this.
I can't help thinking that if such cycleways are provided then it should be manditory for cyclists to use 'em.Otherwise why am I paying for the fecking things?
I've not cycled in Grotspot (sorry, Gosport! ;) ) but my experience of Portsmouth's cycle lanes has often been less than positive.
Many of them appear to be designed with the sole purpose of getting cyclists out of the way of car drivers, rather than being of any actualy *use* to cyclists.
Sharing a cycle path with pedestrians who wander around onto the cyclists half might be alright if you're a granny who pedals at 4mph, but I (and a lot of other riders) go a lot faster than that, so it's actually safer to ride with the traffic!
Often cycle lanes are blocked by car drivers who think they're an extra parking space, very often they're full of grit, broken glass and any other crud on the road because they're not cleaned sufficiently often.
Frequently car drivers don't even *acknowledge* the presence of the cycle lane and treat it as an additional piece of road to squeeze past traffic. They also stop at red lights in the purple "box" that is clearly marked for *cyclists* to use so they can turn across the line of traffic more safely because they don't have to dodge cars that come whizzing past them.
And then they have those stupid signs saying "Cyclists Dismount". Why not just put up one that says "Car drivers: get out and push!"
If you want to make cycle paths compulsory to use, make them bloody useful!
but I (and a lot of other riders) go a lot faster than that, so it's actually safer to ride with the traffic!
Reminds of a time when I was cycling down the road, was around 15-20mph cycling my little heart out and this women looked at me then stepped off the kerb with her 3 kids at her side and walked right accross the road to my side. I jumped on the brakes and skidded to a halt. Looked at her to hear her shout "you are going too bloody fast"
lol smashing, couldn't quite believe her, perhaps she was just covering up for her stupidity :)
Pardon me if I say this is *utter rubbish* and incredibly arrogant as well!
If you are driving in heavy rain or fog, do you give extra distance to the vehicle in front of you in case they stop?
Yes? (If no, well you bloody well should!)
So *WHY* do you appear to think that you should *NOT* give extra room to cyclists in rainy/ windy weather??? *WHY* do you seem to think that cyclists should not get in *your* way and if they might, they should get off and take some other form of transport instead?!
If you'd read what I'd said you'd have seen that I did mention that if the conditions deteriorate my driving adjusts, such as slowing down, increasing the distance between me and the vehicle in front etc. I even said that if I considered the road conditions to be too dangerous, I would not drive! At no point did I say drivers should not give cyclists extra room, in fact I said I give them plenty of room! (are you sure you were reading my post?)
The point I was responding to was that if the weather conditions are such that cyclists cannot ride safely with control of their vehicle (and remember, the weather will affect a light cyclist long before it affects heavier vehicles) then they should not go out cycling!
[/quote]
I think the irony (not to mention the point) is lost on *you*!!!
Just *how many* cyclists do you see there? Now imagine that they were, instead, in cars, (one to a vehicle!!) and consider just how much *more* space they would take up!
I once saw some pictures a cycle protest where they'd rigged some bikes with metal frames that were the equivalent size of a standard car. It clearly demonstrated how you could easily fit *at least* six cycles in the same space that *one* car driver regularly uses!!
A protest against congestion which causes more congestion.... seems ironic to me, why not you?
Now if they were all adhering to the highway code, using brighton's cycle lanes (which a cyclist friend of mine was consulted on, pointing things out like you say, that cyclists will only really use the lanes if they're planned properly so that you don't get pedestrians in the way, and can keep a constant speed up)
then I'm sure their point would have been better made.
Unfortunatly they didn't do this (hey it wouldn't have been so contraversial otherwise now would it?), instead they were changing lanes without signaling, some were kicking cars as they passed (and no there was no reason for this), generally causing a nuisance.
It's all very well them saying things like "if you all cycled there wouldn't be any of this congestion" well frankly, if cyclists were banned from brighton on those days there wouldn't be any congestion either! ( no I am not calling for them to be banned :rolleyes: )
Thus speaks someone who has most probably never ridden a bike in traffic and has never had someone *WITHOUT INDICATING* turn left, directly across the front of them, requiring rapid avoiding action or an emergency stop to avoid getting a face full of car!
And as for "changing lanes without signals" I suggest next time you're out, you see how many *car drivers* indicate properly when they undertake that manoevure and remember that *they* are surrounded by a tonne of metal that's going to cause a lot more damage than a bicycle.
So cycling down eastern road to portsmouth college wouldn't count then? Or going down there on a 50CC moped?
When weather conditions were too bad for 2 wheels, I called in to say I wouldn't be making it, or got a lift in the car.
Even as a driver I have to deal with muppets suddenly turning without indicating (bloody rover drivers! sorry russ) that's why I give plenty of room, so when they do that, I don't have to perform an emergency brake.
As I said before, those drivers who can't wait the extra few seconds for a cyclist infront to pass the junction they want to turn down, so decide to overtake and then turn nearly immediatly across the path of the poor cyclist have no excuse, and I would hope than any copper seeing such an act of dangerous driving would if nothing else, give the driver one hell of a warning.
As a motorist I've whitnessed white vans watching motorcyclists go down between lanes in traffic jams, and then swerve out just before they get to them, simply to block their paths.
I've witnessed cyclists running red lights, nearly get hit by traffic only to stand there waving their fists as if they had right of way.
I've seen cyclists riding along the pavement when the road has been empty, causing pedestrians to jump out the way.
I've seen a woman knocked over by lycra wearing cyclist in a pedestrianised area where signs clearly show that cycling is not allowed.
And more worryingly I always see cyclists riding along the roads in the dark, wearing black, with no lights on (my fear is one night I might not be lucky enough to see these idiots).
And talking of cycle lights, can I just say, these new ultra bright LED lights are great, but I know I'm not the only one who actually finds it difficult to judge the distance when it's blinking and moving (when there's no other illumination and the cyclist is wearing dark clothes), if you've got one, can you hust set it to solid red? Cheers :)
So Graham, hopefully you've read all that I've put above. Now, go have a cup of tea, take a deep breath, calm down, and with a clear head read it again (I'm not being patronising here, although I know it probably sounds it, and I appologise for that)
I am not having a go at responsible cyclists like you, who adhere to the highway code, who make sure their bikes are always roadworthy, who know that there are idiots out there who are a danger to others and so ride defensivly, making sure they always do a second savetly check over their shoulder before turning, who never ride in pedestrianised areas, who plan their routes sensibly so avoiding dangerous roads (if I had know what eastern road was like I'd have gone to havant college!)
Reminds of a time when I was cycling down the road, was around 15-20mph cycling my little heart out and this women looked at me then stepped off the kerb with her 3 kids at her side and walked right accross the road to my side. I jumped on the brakes and skidded to a halt. Looked at her to hear her shout "you are going too bloody fast"
lol smashing, couldn't quite believe her, perhaps she was just covering up for her stupidity :)
:rofl:
One of my college mates used to always get pulled over by the police for speeding!
One of my college mates used to always get pulled over by the police for speeding!
OMG!! how can they expect you to guage your speed when speedometers are not compulsary and frankly quite rare on a bike?
I'll bet this was while another Cyclist was running a red light in the background and cars where doing over 40mph in 30mph zones nearby (Bloody Police 'shakes fist' :mad: )
I wont cycle to work anymore, hehe I sweat too much due to how steep the hills are going to work and since I work in a shop and our Staff shower has just been removed I dont fancy spending half my shift with a big sweat patch down my back.
I instead ride my 100cc Scooter, and the way how a lot of drivers behave towards me makes me sick, do these people who tail gate me less than a meter behind think that if I have to slam on my brakes for an emergancy stop they will be able to stop before me? (Car braking distance is 4x that of a light bike like a scooter Apparently, and this increases rapidly over 30mph).
so far I have been lucky and the situation hasnt come up but I have a friend who lost his bike in the same way, he nearly run a red light and realised just as he was about 2 meters away from it, he slamed his brakes and stoped about 3 meters over the line, it was quiet on the road with no cars going in any other direction (about 11:30pm) yet the car behind him still managed to hit him and knock him off his bike destroying the rear wheel, the driver behind had been trying to overtake my friend for the best part of a mile even though my friend was aparently going about 5mph over the local speed limit and was that fixated on over taking the bike he had missed the red light all together and had bareley hit the brakes when he clipped my friend at a fair speed (It was lucky for my friend the driver only caught the side of his back wheel instead of going straight into the back of him or things may have been much worse).
one of my worst near accidents was driving to work, I was driving down a 40mph road comfortably doing 40mph down a 4 lane road (2 in either direction) when a taxi decided to pull out blocking both lanes and forcing me to emergancy stop, my bike finally came to a hault so close to his car that I could have ripped his wing mirror off (Felt like it too I was so angry but he realised, appologised and reversed back out of my way (I think he had honestly not seen me) drivers like this I can understand, its the ones who go mad at you in the same situation that I dont understand.
Another incedent was when I was driving home from work, on the same road as before but on a different part. The road briefly joins into 2 lanes (1 each way) due to there being a bus lane plus there is a sainsburys there, just after you get past sainsburys the road splits back into two lanes.
Now taking all this onboard I was driving at about 30mph - 35mph (On the 30mph part of the road) when I could hear an loud car engine sound coming up fast behind me (I dont know 100% but it sounded like he was doing about 60mph and judging by the speed he caught up with me Id say that was about right), there are a set of lights before the road joins into 1 with the left lane being left turn only (Sainsburys) and the right lane for straight on (Into the 1 lane of traffic), as we got to the lights I was in the right lane and he was in left (Not indicating to go left).
I could hear him reving his engine as we waited for the lights to change and I looked at his car, Peugot 406 with 5 people in the car (The male driver (probably the father) 1 woman and 3 kids) and me alone on a 100cc scooter, I thought he doesnt stand a chance even if I dont pull down hard on the throttle and I was sure he intended to cut me off into the single lane even though he shouldnt be going straight on due to the lane he was in.
Sure enough as the lights went green he shot off, I could hear his engine screaming (He really wanted to get into the lane infront of me) but even with my throttle open about 3/4 of the way he couldnt keep up with my acceleration (He could wipe me out once we had started but Acceleration belonged to me), I noticed in my mirrors he violently and quite quickly swirved into the lane behind me.
about 300 yards down the road it splits back into 2 lanes again and I wanted to be in the left lane (needed to be there anyway but I wanted to get out of this madmans way) so I indicated to move over into the left lane and as I started to turn he squeezed his car through the smallest Gap possible and cut me off into the Left lane, clipping my arm on his mirror as I was already over the line, the only reason he didnt take me off my bike was because I was aware he was behaving like a psycho and moved over very cautiously.
To sum all that up a lot of drivers seem to have a supperiority complex over bikes Especially Scooters and Pushbikes.
Im hoping to start car driving lessons in the new year so I hope to gain some perspective from the other side of the fence, but at the moment I have seen a few dangerous Motorcycle & pushbike drivers but none of thier mistakes compare to the things I have seen a lot of car drivers doing.
He was often tailgated by the unmarked police car in the area, less than a foot away from his back wheel before being pulled over to be told he was speeding!
Last accident I had on my motorbike, I stopped at some temporary traffic lights at roadworks.
BAM!
I get hit up the back.
Wondering what I'm going to find when I turn round (my sister had just had her fiesta written off by a police man), I was actually quite shocked to find a single decker bus with a great big dent in it's front!
I finally gave up the bike as I was getting fed up with harassment by the police.
One time I had three of them arguing over what the tyre depth should be (they measured mine at 1.6 so I was still legal), one guy thought it was 2mm, another said "well I know for mopeds it's ok so long as you can see some tread" which was shocking!
Then the fourth policeman came out and they told him the situation, and he suggested I should say thankyou for them not hitting me with a £40 on the spot fine for my tyres, um hello? 1.6 is the legal limit, I was on it, not below it!
(I should also point out that it was the end of the month and I was waiting for payday to get a new tyre anyway, so I was aware of the situation)
And who said here how they hate cyclists who go on the pavement at traffic lights !! :( Seems you're damned if you do, damned if you don't :shrug:
Now I wonder whose fault that is, oh yes all these thousands of cyclists barrelling all over the place. Don't think so ! :nono:
I think this is foolhardy on behalf of any cyclist since it is only he who will end in hospital !
The "many" are probably young children who should be given due consideration whether walking or cycling.
It's the cyclists and pedestrians who are the easy targets !!
The laws of the road apply to ALL users whether on 2 or 4 wheels or legs.
I think you should read my post again, I never said anything about cyclists going on the pavement at traffic lights, I am talking about the ones that squeeze up the inside when you are stopped at lights, they either pull directly in front of car drivers or foolishly put their right foot down on the floor in front of the car wheel. Why not wait like all other traffic, do they gain a big advantage by jumping a car or two? in my opinion they are only suceeding in making themselves more vulnerable to an accident.
Cyclists and pedestrians are an easy target if someone goes out looking to run someone over, but a drunken cyclist or pedestrian walking into the road in front of a car should not be considered in the right. It's a terrible tradgedy when a child runs into the road without looking, but it's not right to instantly blame the car driver and make him feel like a social outcast when he was possibly not at fault.
Someone mentioned cycle lanes in roads, there is one particular road well more of a country road in the Monmouth/Raglan area that has had cycle lanes painted on both sides. There are signs warning not to drive in the cycle lanes, but suprise suprise, the lanes left for a car are not wide enough for anything more than a Smart car. Two vehicles cannot pass as the road was fairly narrow before they introduced these cycle lanes.
As I said cycling on the road is dangerous as far as I am concerned, if only due to the sheer amount of traffic these days. I had considered a job locally and if I had accepted I would of cycled to work probably with an electric cycle.
I considered this because there is a cycle path using an old railway line fairly close to my house that goes past the company that I considered working for.
There is no chance that I would of considered cycling on the road for 2-3 miles, as I have more sense than put my life at that sort of risk with the junctions that I would have to negotiate to complete the trip.
The laws as you rightly said do apply to all road users, unfortunately they are not enforced in all cases.
Reading all these posts and calling on my 30+ years as driver and cyclist I figure there are three types of road user :
1) The 'Professional': This is the lycra clad sports cyclist, the lorry driver, taxi driver, bus driver, rales rep Mondeo driver. They generally think they own the road. Woe betide anyone who gets in their way !! They are so experienced (they think) that they know better than anyone else in any given situation. For the most part they are quite safe cyclists or drivers but tend to be driven by arrogance for others who are just getting in their way.
2) The 'Industrial': These are the cyclists and drivers who *have* to cycle / drive, generally for work reasons rather than pleasure. This would be the major group. These are the safest on the roads. They are experienced but generally not arrogant in the same way as the 'Professional' because they recognise that like most others they are there because they *have* to be not *want* to be. These are the ones who leave junctions clear, slow down and allow for slower traffic or pedestrians, stay in the correct lane etc, etc.
3) The 'Casual': This is the kid out playing on his bike, grandad collecting the papers, "4 wheel drive (or Mercedes) mum" nipping to Sainsbury's for tonights dinner. This group is lethal. Watch out for these !! They are totally unaware of anyone else on the road be they pedestrians, cyclists or cars ! They are likely to pop out at you from just about anywhere without warning !
The trick is to be able to identify these three basic groups in nano seconds from first seeing them. (You may well never see the 'Casual' ones before impact !!)
The above is my lame attempt at some humour to redress my anger last night.
Remember "Be safe out there". ;)
I like to cycle myself in the summer
but I can't stant those militant ones you see in the traffic
dayglo stipes everywhere - helmet - po-faced - you know the sort
saw one this morning whacking the side of a car for no apparent reason
I admit a couple of years ago when I used to cycle everywhere to being a bit of a nazi where cars were concerned, thinking about it now I probably narrowly escaped death (or a good beating) on many ocassion but at the time my actions seemed justified. E.g. cycling to work (no cycle paths) the traffic is moving very slowly, a kindly driver behind me has actually for once given me some room and I'm moving at the same speed as everyone else, unfortunately they turn off and some nonse in a VW camper decides he want's to shorten the gap between himself and the car in front, this entails him pulling alongside me and swerving inwards causing me to end up in a bush, probably hilarious to watch but quite dangerous, I got up, cycled up alongside the passenger side, banged on the passengers window to give him a mouthful and his wife started screaming like I'd just murdered her entire family ... I took the initiative and decided to carry on to work. There were plenty of times again when traffic is moving very slowly where a lot of cars have left plenty of room to "undertake" on a bike, yet there is always some pr*ck who will overtake you when they find a space and jam their car in so you cannot get past, I take a small amount of pleasure in overtaking them on the drivers side and parking myself right in the middle of the road so they can carry on at my speed. Then there's the drivers that don't seem to spot a bike with two 15 watt cat eye lights on the front, I was cycling to a friends house on my birthday, some stupid woman decided despite me having lights on that would blind a small animal, that I didn't actually exist and that as soon as I got level to the point with her car, she'd pull out, wreck 1500 quids worth of mountain bike and put me in hospital for 3 days, she never got charged with dangerous driving because the local council hadn't road marked the junction properly despite the police agreeing that I had right of way, I ended up with £700 to replace my bike (this sum included 3 day's loss of earning's and compensation for injuries ... wonderful ... less than half the cost to replace the bike).
To address both your posts Graham...
I've just found this post that I didn't see the first time around. It seems there's still problems with the "unread messages" system that manages to miss some for unknown reason.
The license plate would be the Cyclists home postcode plus house number, a form of registration some cyclists are already stamping into the frame for anti theft purposes.
But the point is *where* would it go? One of the reasons for licence plates is so the vehicle can be identified at a distance, eg driving away from a crash. There's no way that can be done safely on a bicycle.
The current driving licence system is ludicrous.
On that you'll get no argument from me!
Is it an offence for a cyclist to use a mobile phone whilst riding a bike?
If it isn't, it damn well should be!
swoop101
17-12-2003, 12:06
If it isn't, it damn well should be!
Just this morning I saw a sui-cyclist ridng no-handed, on the phone and smoking a cig with his other hand :eek:
What he was going to do at the lights I dread to think.
It is this kind of utter stupidity that defies belief.
If you'd read what I'd said (snip) (are you sure you were reading my post?)
Yes, actually I was. I do my best to read posts very carefully.
I suggest you go back and re-read your *own* post, #33 which was the one I was responding to in that message and realise that, in it you *did not* say any of the things you mentioned.
You *subsequently* wrote more and clarified your position in your post #36 (in response to Basa's message #34), however that was *not* the message I was responding to because I hadn't read it at the time I wrote that message, so please, do me the favour of taking a little more care in checking your references.
The point I was responding to was that if the weather conditions are such that cyclists cannot ride safely with control of their vehicle (and remember, the weather will affect a light cyclist long before it affects heavier vehicles) then they should not go out cycling!
And *WHO DECIDES*?? Just *when* are conditions so bad that a cyclist "should not" go out? And *why* is it that they "cannot ride safely"? Is it because inconsiderate drivers don't allow for the conditions and drive too close/ fail to give way/ fail to allow sufficient space?? Perish the thought...!
A protest against congestion which causes more congestion.... seems ironic to me, why not you?
Whooosh! (That's the sound of the point going over someone's head!)
It's all very well them saying things like "if you all cycled there wouldn't be any of this congestion" well frankly, if cyclists were banned from brighton on those days there wouldn't be any congestion either! ( no I am not calling for them to be banned :rolleyes: )
It is *not* the cyclists who are *causing* the congestion, it is the motorists who are using large amounts of space for a *single* person. How many bikes can you fit in the space of a car? How many bikes can be parked in a slot that one car parks in?
It's all very well saying "now you be good little boys and girls and use your nice little cycle lanes and everyone will be happy", but the idea is to demonstrate that there *IS* an alternative to environmentally unfriendly, road hogging motorcars.
And talking of cycle lights, can I just say, these new ultra bright LED lights are great, but I know I'm not the only one who actually finds it difficult to judge the distance when it's blinking and moving (when there's no other illumination and the cyclist is wearing dark clothes), if you've got one, can you hust set it to solid red? Cheers :)
No, because that flashing gives me just a little bit extra advantage.
Yes, I know that, technically, it's illegal and, yes, I know why (after all, if *everyone* had flickering lights it would be a nightmare), but I'll trade that against the increased visibility it actually gives.
Having said that, there are some of those lights which I agree are a problem. Some brands have a slower flash with a distinct "off" phase instead of, like mine, having a rapid flash that means that persistance of vision results in the observer never actually losing sight of it. But the fact of the matter is that, if the driver suddenly loses sight of/ gets confused by the flashing, they should slow down and take greater care! It's not difficult.
So Graham, hopefully you've read all that I've put above. Now, go have a cup of tea, take a deep breath, calm down, and with a clear head read it again (I'm not being patronising here, although I know it probably sounds it, and I appologise for that)
Apologising like that is like saying "no offence" just after saying something offensive. It lacks sincerity and isn't convincing. If you really felt you'd need to apologise for comments like that you shouldn't have made them in the first place.
.......... that flashing gives me just a little bit extra advantage.
Yes, I know that, technically, it's illegal and, yes, I know why ....
I thought that....but last night on my way home (cycling) I saw two Policemen on horses and both had flashing red lights on the back of their jackets !
What's good for the goose........ ;)
And *WHO DECIDES*?? Just *when* are conditions so bad that a cyclist "should not" go out? And *why* is it that they "cannot ride safely"? Is it because inconsiderate drivers don't allow for the conditions and drive too close/ fail to give way/ fail to allow sufficient space?? Perish the thought...!
I've seen many cyclists battling wind and rain, and often lose (ie get blown over, or go tumbling, or lose control when they brake), and no cars are involved.
As I said, cars should give plenty of room to cyclists, I know I do, heck if it's safe to I'll go completly over to the other side of the road if overtaking!
Pig ignorant drivers who tailgate cyclists, or cut them up etc do not just come out in bad weather (wish they'd stay at home all the time), they affect other road users too you know, not just cyclists!
It is *not* the cyclists who are *causing* the congestion, it is the motorists who are using large amounts of space for a *single* person. How many bikes can you fit in the space of a car? How many bikes can be parked in a slot that one car parks in?
Hmm, normal state of Brighton = many cars, few bikes = no congestion
normal state of Brighton + extra cyclists = severe congestion
Ergo the extra cyclists are causing the congestion :P
It's all very well saying "now you be good little boys and girls and use your nice little cycle lanes and everyone will be happy", but the idea is to demonstrate that there *IS* an alternative to environmentally unfriendly, road hogging motorcars.
Not really. I live in portsmouth, I can drive to Brighton in about 30mins.
If I cycled then it would take several hours, I'd not have room to put my shopping, and then I'd have a several hour cycle ride home.
I wouldn't be able to spend as much time in Brighton, or I'd have to cycle back along the A27 in the dark.
Most of the people in brighton walk, it's a nice place, and even if the weather is too bad to cycle, it's still normally safe to go out on your feet.
I also work near Heathrow, not practicle to cycle there, and as for visiting my gf up in Grimsby!
If I need to pop down the road to the shop, I generally walk, it's less hassle than getting the bike out, and safer to walk back carrying a shopping bag than cycling back with it (which I often see cyclists doing)
No, because that flashing gives me just a little bit extra advantage.
Yes, I know that, technically, it's illegal and, yes, I know why (after all, if *everyone* had flickering lights it would be a nightmare), but I'll trade that against the increased visibility it actually gives.
Having said that, there are some of those lights which I agree are a problem. Some brands have a slower flash with a distinct "off" phase instead of, like mine, having a rapid flash that means that persistance of vision results in the observer never actually losing sight of it. But the fact of the matter is that, if the driver suddenly loses sight of/ gets confused by the flashing, they should slow down and take greater care! It's not difficult.
Technically illegal? Is that like a little bit pregnant? :D
Go to 5ave (or time as it's known now) wait for the strobe lights to go on, and try running across the dance floor without hitting anyone.
It's impossible due to the flashing.
A solid light is much easier to track than a strobe, hence why there is the law in place which you are breaking (you nasty criminal!)
It does not give you greater visibility (perhaps if it was on constantly but increased in brightness...) it actually makes it very difficult to notice, hence why I do slow right down.
Why do cyclists also do mad things like cycle down a dark lane wearing black?
Apologising like that is like saying "no offence" just after saying something offensive. It lacks sincerity and isn't convincing. If you really felt you'd need to apologise for comments like that you shouldn't have made them in the first place.
It was late, I was trying not to sound patronising but wanted to say what I put, hence why I tried to express I wasn't being patronising.
If you want to get worked up about it, fine, I was trying not to let this turn into an argument, and keep it as a discussion.
I live in portsmouth, I can drive to Brighton in about 30mins.
If I cycled then it would take several hours, I'd not have room to put my shopping, and then I'd have a several hour cycle ride home.
This is a total non-sequitur. Please stick to the subject.
Technically illegal? Is that like a little bit pregnant? :D
I refer you to Basa's message about the mounted police above!
A solid light is much easier to track than a strobe, hence why there is the law in place which you are breaking (you nasty criminal!)
A flashing light is more noticable than a solid one. That is why car indicators flash.
A flashing light with sufficient "latency" that it does not have a distinct "off" phase on a bike is noticable and not difficult to track. I know, I've seen both.
It was late, I was trying not to sound patronising but wanted to say what I put, hence why I tried to express I wasn't being patronising.
If you want to get worked up about it, fine, I was trying not to let this turn into an argument, and keep it as a discussion.
I don't want to "get worked up about it", however using expressions such as that are not helping the "I'm trying to be reasonable and grown up about this" image you seem to be trying to project here.
Next time, why not just avoid using the expressions in the first place?
homealone
18-12-2003, 00:57
led lights = low battery use - that is their only advantage, flashing, or not!
Gaz
This is a total non-sequitur. Please stick to the subject.
Appologies, I thought you were talking about cycling as being a valid alternative to driving.
I refer you to Basa's message about the mounted police above!
Cool, so I can speed cos I've seen police cars doing the same? Alas, I fear it wouldn't stand up in court.
A flashing light is more noticable than a solid one. That is why car indicators flash.
A flashing light with sufficient "latency" that it does not have a distinct "off" phase on a bike is noticable and not difficult to track. I know, I've seen both.
You mean ones which I mentioned, which are constantly on, but increase their brightness instead of flash?
I don't want to "get worked up about it", however using expressions such as that are not helping the "I'm trying to be reasonable and grown up about this" image you seem to be trying to project here.
Next time, why not just avoid using the expressions in the first place?
Graham.... no wait, I'm not going to bother in case you read it in a negative light :(
zoombini
18-12-2003, 12:01
Does anyone actually know any cyclist that have been abused by othe drivers & actually won when seeking police redress, court cases etc?
All too often I hear of those that have lost just because they are the bike riders.
Does anyone actually know any cyclist that have been abused by othe drivers & actually won when seeking police redress, court cases etc?
All too often I hear of those that have lost just because they are the bike riders.
I heard of a motorcyclist who witnessed a white van deliberatly trying to side swipe passing motorbikes.
When he passed the van, it tried the same trick but he grabbed it's wing mirror for stability, but the mirror broke off and the van drove away.
He reported it to the police (got the van's reg number) but they weren't interested, and actually said they could charge the biker with criminal damage because of the wing mirror!
OK..maybe we should digress :p back to the original topic of this thread i.e. 'Miltant cyclists' :)
Those cyclists that are 'militant' (and I suppose I would count mysef as one of those ! :D ) are so because they feel somewhat altruistically that they are helping the environment in reducing congestion, pollution and probably the tax burden (healthier..so hopefully..accidents notwithstanding..less visits to hospital :rolleyes: ), but are treated with disdain by motorists who are the very people causing the problem.
An apt clichÃÃâ€*’© would be "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem".
Does anyone actually know any cyclist that have been abused by othe drivers & actually won when seeking police redress, court cases etc?
All too often I hear of those that have lost just because they are the bike riders.
My father had a motorbike small 100cc thing, and he was overtaken by a lorry that decided to turn left when it was half way past him. He got knocked off and badly damaged his leg when part of the bike punctured straight through his skin.
The guy lost his licence and his job a few months later because we heard that he had knocked approx 3 people off motorbikes in as many months!
True story, happened about 15 years ago.
This is a total non-sequitur. Please stick to the subject.
Appologies, I thought you were talking about cycling as being a valid alternative to driving.
I was, but in an *appropriate* context! I'm not talking about driving to Brighton or John O'Groats or carrying three children and a load of shopping.
Cool, so I can speed cos I've seen police cars doing the same? Alas, I fear it wouldn't stand up in court.
Sigh, if you want to debate this seriously, please try to do so, otherwise I'm going to stop wasting my time replying to silly comments.
You mean ones which I mentioned, which are constantly on, but increase their brightness instead of flash?
Now we're playing word games as to what "flash" means...
Graham.... no wait, I'm not going to bother in case you read it in a negative light :(
Good.
Have had a couple of run ins (no pun intended)
lately with militant joggers
usually in pairs who seem to think they can 'act the cop'
and stop traffic wherever and whenever they feel like
had once yesterday who took offence when I refused to obey his commands to stop the car and let him run by across the junction
Well pedestrians DO have right of way.If you don't believe me try knocking one down next time and see what happens.
Well pedestrians DO have right of way.If you don't believe me try knocking one down next time and see what happens.
they don't have the right to run out in front of you
and this pair of clowns I am refferring to was wearing earphones/music
and would probably have the temerity to complain when they were run over
when it was all their own fault
looks like the green cross code fell on deaf ears in their case
they don't have the right to run out in front of you
and this pair of clowns I am refferring to was wearing earphones/music
and would probably have the temerity to complain when they were run over
when it was all their own fault
looks like the green cross code fell on deaf ears in their case
It is your job to be driving with due care and attention.That includes keeping a weather eye out for joggers,bikers,children,dogs,cats,motorbikes and other cars.You have to have a VERY good reason for knocking someone down.The police,the courts and insurance companies will want to know why if you do so.
Incog.
It is your job to be driving with due care and attention.That includes keeping a weather eye out for joggers,bikers,children,dogs,cats,motorbikes and other cars.You have to have a VERY good reason for knocking someone down.The police,the courts and insurance companies will want to know why if you do so.
Incog.
I'm sure in the pedestrian section of the highway code (strange how pedestrians seem to forget they're covered by it too) it mentions the responsibilities of the pedestrian, and I'm pretty sure it covers the green cross code, ie stop look listen, don't cross between vehicles, wait for a safe gap in traffic, use pedestrian crossings if available.
If someone jumps out directly in front of you, no matter how much due care and attention you have, you're going to hit them (hopefully with a bump and not a splat)
Yeah - I'm all on Xaccers side now
and check out which level of
hell we are on if you want to join the party
http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/01.shtml
Yes of course there is a certain culpability on the part of pedestrians BUT drivers have to be rather more careful than everyone else.A car is a very dangerous machine.
It does tick me off the way everyone just casually wanders around cars these days.I get just as incensed as peachey with 'pedestrians' when I'm trying to reverse out in the local supermarket car park.They just casually wander out behind you as if you are invisible,when it is OBVIOUS that you are reversing out of your parking bay.
Ignorance or contempt?I'm never sure.Familiarity maybe.Stupidity certainly.
Incog.
You bethcha!!!
and they will be first on the blower to no win no fee mongers
when
stressed by the lack of hamburger they have eaten for the
last ten minutes before settling down to another
week on the dole in Mynachdy
they grow weary of ordering ppv events on chipped boxes
:eh: :eh: :eh:
Cardiff talk love!
if you come down here don't even think of buying anything on the crappy hamburger carts they have on the penarth side of barrage
£2 for about 15 'chips' and £1 for a paper cup of crappy tea you have to dip the asda value teabag in yourself
Tezcatlipoca
13-04-2004, 23:44
I don't drive, & I've never experienced militant joggers, but one thing that really annoys me (as a pedestrian) are cyclists. Cambridge bloody cyclists :mad:
Now I do have a thing about Macho,Militant cyclists.The ones who WILL NOT USE THE OFF ROAD CYCLE WAY TWO FEET TO THEIR LEFT.
Tezcatlipoca
14-04-2004, 00:07
Heh, you'd hate it here, then.
They always jump red lights....especially ones at pedestrian crossings.
So you have to beware when crossing the road in Camb...the "green man" will be on, the cars will have stopped, but there's *always* some git on a bike who ploughs through, seemingly deliberately trying to mow down anyone crossing...despite the lights going red well before they get to the crossing.
Red light at a junction etc...they often go straight through...or their preferred option...cut onto the pavement & go through the pedestrians.
Agh :mad:
Now I do have a thing about Macho,Militant cyclists.The ones who WILL NOT USE THE OFF ROAD CYCLE WAY TWO FEET TO THEIR LEFT.
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=5258&highlight=militant+cyclists
Heh, you'd hate it here, then.
They always jump red lights....especially ones at pedestrian crossings.
So you have to beware when crossing the road in Camb...the "green man" will be on, the cars will have stopped, but there's *always* some git on a bike who ploughs through, seemingly deliberately trying to mow down anyone crossing...despite the lights going red well before they get to the crossing.
Red light at a junction etc...they often go straight through...or their preferred option...cut onto the pavement & go through the pedestrians.
Agh :mad:
umbrella through the spokes is your best bet in that case then!
I always give cyclists the right of way.
Anytime they are on a designated cycle path, with due regard to pedestrian traffic abounding, they have my utmost respect.
If, when I am out walking, they cut me up on the pavement, I slam their carbon fibre foam insert dayglo helmet as hard as I can with my fist, which normally gets their attention long enough to explain they should be on the cycle path, or failing that the road.
If I am out driving and they cut me up on the road, I slam their carbon fibre foam insert dayglo helmet as hard as I can with my front bumper, door, jack handle, fist, or passenger's handbag, which normally gets their attention long enough to explain they should be on the cycle path, or failing that tucked up at home safely in bed (as there is no need to get up 4 hours early to put on ridiculous shiny plastic long johns, a string vest, and lime green dayglo socks just to be in time [after your required shower and boost bar] for a cancelled meeting on diesel prices) and well away from the pavement which they are currently soiling with leaking blood.
If, when I am out walking, they cut me up on the pavement, I slam their carbon fibre foam insert dayglo helmet as hard as I can with my fist, which normally gets their attention long enough to explain they should be on the cycle path, or failing that the road. If I am out driving and they cut me up on the road, I slam their carbon fibre foam insert dayglo helmet as hard as I can with my front bumper
So you consider that, as a responsible citizen, the correct way to remonstrate with someone who is committing a *civil* offence is to commit a *CRIMINAL* offence of *Actual* or even *Grievous Bodily Harm* or possibly *ATTEMPTED MURDER*?
Please could you PM me your name and address as I feel it's my duty as a responsible citizen to report your irresponsible actions to the Police.
So you consider that, as a responsible citizen, the correct way to remonstrate with someone who is committing a *civil* offence is to commit a *CRIMINAL* offence of *Actual* or even *Grievous Bodily Harm* or possibly *ATTEMPTED MURDER*?
Please could you PM me your name and address as I feel it's my duty as a responsible citizen to report your irresponsible actions to the Police.
:rolleyes:
Have had a couple of run ins (no pun intended)
lately with militant joggers
usually in pairs who seem to think they can 'act the cop'
and stop traffic wherever and whenever they feel like
had once yesterday who took offence when I refused to obey his commands to stop the car and let him run by across the junction
The ones that p1ss me off are the ones who run on the side of the road when there is a pavement. :mad:
It is an ideal opportunity to use the windscreen washers on the way by. :D
So you consider that, as a responsible citizen, the correct way to remonstrate with someone who is committing a *civil* offence is to commit a *CRIMINAL* offence of *Actual* or even *Grievous Bodily Harm* or possibly *ATTEMPTED MURDER*?
Please could you PM me your name and address as I feel it's my duty as a responsible citizen to report your irresponsible actions to the Police.
Now how did I know that you'd be the one to take that one literally :rolleyes:
Now I do have a thing about Macho,Militant cyclists.The ones who WILL NOT USE THE OFF ROAD CYCLE WAY TWO FEET TO THEIR LEFT. Cycle paths are often less than ideal but where they are good, I also can't understand why cyclists don't use them. However, I have to admit I don't always use the sort of cycle lane where the footpath is divided into halves, one half for pedestrians and the other for cyclists.
Pedestrians always wander all over the half that is supposed to be for cyclists. I try to stay in the cycling half but it's often impossible to do so because of having to dodge walkers, joggers, prams etc. Some people do move aside but others seem quite obstructive. Faced with a shared pathway the roads often seems the lesser of two evils ...dangerous as they are for cyclists.
I cycle round sometimes
the 'paths' are often ludicrous and you have
to watch out for parked cars opening their doors into you
Cycle paths are often less than ideal but where they are good, I also can't understand why cyclists don't use them. However, I have to admit I don't always use the sort of cycle lane where the footpath is divided into halves, one half for pedestrians and the other for cyclists.
Pedestrians always wander all over the half that is supposed to be for cyclists. I try to stay in the cycling half but it's often impossible to do so because of having to dodge walkers, joggers, prams etc. Some people do move aside but others seem quite obstructive. Faced with a shared pathway the roads often seems the lesser of two evils ...dangerous as they are for cyclists.
I walked along the cycle/footpath that skirts Watford town centre this lunchtime, alongside the river Colne. Between Tescos and my office, the pedestrian and cyclist half swapped sides no less than three times. No wonder there's so much friction between people on foot and people on wheels. I suspect a lot of cycle paths, whether sharing a footpath or a main road, have been put in by Councils that are scared of missing some Government target or other rather than actually desiring to improve facilities for cyclists.
I walked along the cycle/footpath that skirts Watford town centre this lunchtime, alongside the river Colne. Between Tescos and my office, the pedestrian and cyclist half swapped sides no less than three times. No wonder there's so much friction between people on foot and people on wheels. I suspect a lot of cycle paths, whether sharing a footpath or a main road, have been put in by Councils that are scared of missing some Government target or other rather than actually desiring to improve facilities for cyclists.
yeah - they have to put a certain amount down to meet targets
some of the ones here in Cardiff are daft
they are only 6 feet long and stuff
you see them in the local paper sometimes as it makes fun of them
zoombini
14-04-2004, 16:50
And so it should....
We need a campaign for sensible cycle route placement & IMO Peachey is the one to head it...lol
And so it should....
We need a campaign for sensible cycle route placement & IMO Peachey is the one to head it...lol
I was in Amsterdam a few weeks back
the cycle system there is well pucker!
What about Skateboarders. I walk everywhere, and when ever i turn the corner, there always seems to be one bombing it down a hill, threatening to crash in to me.
Kill Them, Kill them all. Or at least stick your leg out when you see one
Now how did I know that you'd be the one to take that one literally :rolleyes:
Because you've paid attention to my previous posts.
Cycle paths are often less than ideal but where they are good, I also can't understand why cyclists don't use them. However, I have to admit I don't always use the sort of cycle lane where the footpath is divided into halves, one half for pedestrians and the other for cyclists.
Pedestrians always wander all over the half that is supposed to be for cyclists. I try to stay in the cycling half but it's often impossible to do so because of having to dodge walkers, joggers, prams etc. Some people do move aside but others seem quite obstructive. Faced with a shared pathway the roads often seems the lesser of two evils ...dangerous as they are for cyclists.
Well on the nearest main road to me there are cycle paths on BOTH sides of the road.Yes on one side it's a shared pedestrian cycle/pathway BUT on the other side the pedestrians and cyclists are separated by two feet of grass verge.And yes today I passed two ubiquitous macho hardmen(I've never seen a female one yet) cyclists wobbling(the way only speed cyclists can)in the road. :rolleyes:
Incog
I'm always grateful to get off the road on cycle paths such as those. We have a few of that calibre near us and why the 'serious' cyclists still use the road beats me. I might get round to asking one sometime.
With my mudguards and saddlebag I'm no serious cyclist (should see me off-road though!) but I do wish cycle paths were generally of better quality. Many local authorities paint the road orange where cyclists would normally go anyway and that constitutes a dedicated cycling lane. I've seen such tracks as short as 50 metres. I sometimes think the people who plan these things have never ridden bikes. Cycle lanes, such as they are, usually end where motor traffic is heavy. In fact, wherever it looks like motorists would be inconvenienced by their presence. Yet this is where cyclists need some separation and protection from motor vehicles. Cycle lanes get parked across quite often so diversions into car lanes are necessary. Also, I can't think of anywhere near us where motorists are asked to 'Give way to cyclists'. There are quite a few 'Cyclists Dismount' signs around though.
Pedal power is usually quicker than motoring in towns but I have to say I feel much safer when I'm driving the car. Quite a few people I know have become 'born again' cyclists and the first thing everyone seems to complain about is how scary the traffic is. If more people are to be encouraged to leave the car behind for short journeys then perhaps a bit of priority over the motorist will be necessary here and there.
Tezcatlipoca
14-04-2004, 20:48
As peachey's Militant Joggers thread has drifted from joggers to cyclists (lol, sorry peachey - I think I started that!), I've merged it with peachey's earlier Militant Cyclist thread :)
Tezcatlipoca
14-04-2004, 20:50
Re: Cycle lanes
I agree these are often quite stupidly done, & aren't much use if they're short & seem to stop at random or switch sides & so on. (it's like that in Cambridge).
But, it still doesn't give cyclists the right to fly straight through every red light at a junction or pedestrian crossing (not saying anyone said it did - just what I think).
But, it still doesn't give cyclists the right to fly straight through every red light at a junction or pedestrian crossing (not saying anyone said it did - just what I think).
Today I nearly got run down by a car driver who decided that a red light on a pedestrian/ cycle crossing didn't apply to him. I don't think cyclists should go through red lights either, but which is going to cause more damage to the victim?
Tezcatlipoca
15-04-2004, 00:31
A car, obviously. And it is definitely annoying when they go through crossings like that.
But I very very rarely see cars jump red lights at pedestrian crossings, yet I see cyclists do it every single day.
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/22/44361-should-cyclists-be-licenced.html
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/20/51304-cyclists-with-bladder-problems.html
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/20/33694993-what-do-cyclists-think-boriss-latest.html
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/20/33695948-cyclists-caught-jumping-lights.html
i didnt know which thread, i opted for this mega one
Marc Ashdown @marcashdown
https://twitter.com/marcashdown
Several hundred cyclists gathering in Southwark for cycle vigil and mass "die-in"
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2013/11/2.jpg
5:15 PM - 29 Nov 13
https://twitter.com/marcashdown/status/406471531460440064
More cyclists arriving for the vigil. Trying to increase pressure on TfL and boroughs for more investment.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2013/11/3.jpg
5:31 PM - 29 Nov 13
https://twitter.com/marcashdown/status/406475565688827904
All cyclists now lying down with lights flashing in memory of cyclists killed in London.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2013/11/4.jpg
5:36 PM - 29 Nov 13
https://twitter.com/marcashdown/status/406476728660275201
A sea of bodies on Blackfriars Road. A mass "die-in" like in Holland in 70s. They're hoping for similar.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2013/11/5.jpg
5:39 PM - 29 Nov 13
https://twitter.com/marcashdown/status/406477437245984768
Peter Woodman @pawoodman
Chris Boardman lays into Commons Transport Committee saying they should be "embarrassed by their performance" in cycling safety hearing
1:43 PM - 3 Dec 13
https://twitter.com/pawoodman/status/407867732554964992
ThunderPants73
03-12-2013, 21:23
The amount of times I've nearly been knocked off my bike by car drivers failing to check their blind spot before pulling off or even opening the door is amazing.
If a car driver bothers to use their indicators it's a miracle.
I'm one of the few that take cycling seriously and DO obey the rules of the road. I was nearly hit the other day by some twot doing a wheelie on a moped up the middle of the high street.
Cycle lanes? The cycle lanes around my town usually have feckin' cars parked in them, which means you either have to pull out into the traffic (onto a narrower lane made narrower by the inclusion of the car park... sorry, cycle lane), or mount the pavement and be reviled. Personally, I squeeze by the cars and take off/damage as many wing mirrors as I can.
I was nearly hit the other month by some plonker in a car pulling into a space next to the bike racks outside of Tesco, gave me a right roasting for being there, trying to lock my bike up. The fact that the space he was trying to pull into was reserved for motorcycles was totally lost on the turd.
spreadsheet
04-12-2013, 00:03
Cycle lanes? The cycle lanes around my town usually have feckin' cars parked in them, which means you either have to pull out into the traffic (onto a narrower lane made narrower by the inclusion of the car park... sorry, cycle lane), or mount the pavement and be reviled.
I am both (or have been) cyclist and car driver and been vengeful on either front
It maddens me when you see a chav come careering round a corner on a pavement resplendent with spliff in mouth and yet I don't see a huge problem with cyclists going through parks - as long as they take it easy and sound a casual bell
I don't like it when there's two lycra clad frenzied types clogging up the road right next to a park shouting loudly to each other about what offers are currently on at waitrose!
so - as usual, it seems, not everyone is the same
---------- Post added 04-12-2013 at 00:03 ---------- Previous post was 03-12-2013 at 23:57 ----------
happy anniversary to the thread as I see it's now over ten years old!!
Hell of a bump!
I too am on both sides of the fence but I always indicate when driving(saved my bacon a couple of times!) and never cycle two abreast etc...
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/motorists-lose-badge-of-superiority-to-cyclists-2013120681761
THE abolition of tax discs has left drivers without physical evidence of paying something that cyclists don’t.
Thousands of motorists cherished the windscreen adornment as visual proof that roads belong to four-wheeled transport.
:D
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