View Full Version : Hell and the Bible
Sorry to bring up yet another topic on the Bible and religion in general but I could not find answers to these questions online.
My question is bascially how much about hell and the devil is in the bible and how much has been added (invented?) afterwards? For example, is hell even mentioned in the bible and what references are there to the devil (if he is even refered into as 'the devil')?
It is such a common theme but I am unsure exactly what its roots are.
Also is there any agreement on hell and the devil from other faiths?
Interesting one there.
I don't recall there being explicit mention of heaven and hell referenced to in the bible as places, more as descriptions of being.
The devil is meant to be God's fallen angel.
I'm sure every religion has its 'scary bits' to keep you believing 'just in case'
zing_deleted
05-06-2006, 09:32
Hell does not exist simple as and is not mentioned in the bible. Hades and Gehenna are mention but these are refered to as waiting places.IE waiting for the ressurection.The devil is an angel who helped in the creation and he saw God getting all the praise and was jealous,but he wasnt cast out of heaven straight away he still had influence.
Incidentially Micheal is the first angel God created and he later become Jesus.Everything in creation after Micheal God didnt do alone
Sorry to bring up yet another topic on the Bible and religion in general but I could not find answers to these questions online.
Well...it HAS been a few weeks :D
My question is bascially how much about hell and the devil is in the bible and how much has been added (invented?) afterwards? For example, is hell even mentioned in the bible and what references are there to the devil (if he is even refered into as 'the devil')?
Depends on who you speak to of course but none of the Bible has been 'added' to or 'invented'.
The devil (or as he's referred to in the Bible "Satan", "the serpent", "Lucifer") appears often, for example he's in the Garden of Eden as the serpent who tempts Eve, in the Book of Job God allows him to mess with Job's life to test his faith, also he tried to tempt Jesus when he goes in to the wilderness for 40 days and nights ("I will give you this whole kingdom if you kneel before me etc") - these are just a few examples, he appears in other places too.
Hell is never described directly - but vicariously Jesus describes how bad it is by talking about how wonderful heaven is.
Also is there any agreement on hell and the devil from other faiths?
Not sure....I believe Islam makes some referrences and of course Judaism cites satan too.
---------- Post added at 09:49 ---------- Previous post was at 09:48 ----------
The devil is an angel who helped in the creation and he saw God getting all the praise and was jealous,but he wasnt cast out of heaven straight away he still had influence.
That's just about it - he was cast to earth and given limited powers here.
Incidentially Micheal is the first angel God created and he later become Jesus.
:confused:
Really.....:erm:
zing_deleted
05-06-2006, 09:56
Yeah mate
To make my desision on religion I researched a lot of faiths and had bible studies with various different religions. Catholic Cof E Born again christians Mormons and Jehovahs witnesses.Out of all of these religions the Jehovas Witnesses are the only ones that put masses and masses of time and money into researching historically the facts from the time and of course translations of the scriptures. Now I know they get bad press because of the blood issue and knocking on doors but they are the only religion that whole heartedly try to live the closest to Gods word out of all of them.I comend them for it.
In the end the bible says there is only 1 true religion and all the rest are basically doing Satans work so to make it easy I follow none and just rest in my opwn faith
The bible says Jesus is Gods only Begotten son.For this to be true everything else that exists could not just have been created by God
(deffinition of begotten (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=begotten))
The bible says Jesus is Gods only Begotten son.For this to be true everything else that exists could not just have been created by God
(deffinition of begotten (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=begotten))
That's taking things off topic and I'm sure we can discuss it if such a thread comes up but I'll be honest and say that is an extremely flawed premise.
Incidentially Micheal is the first angel God created and he later become Jesus.Everything in creation after Micheal God didnt do alone
This is simply not true. What makes you think this? Have you a reference?
That's off-topic Timbo.... ;)
zing_deleted
05-06-2006, 10:47
The biggest flaw in modern christianity is the trinity how many of you believe that nonsense?
http://www.antiochian.org/archangel_michael
God gave Micheal the job of defeating satan. The bible also states the refering to Jesus and Satan" he will bruise him in the head whilst you will bruise him in the heel"
does this not give you reason to assume that Jesus is also fighting Satan? and If Micheal is the angel given the job is it not also ok to assume they could be one and the same?
Is it unreasonabel to assume that Jesus was an angel in heaven and did not just exist beforehand? When Jesus was bestowed with holy spirit did he not from that point have the knowledge of who he was and where he come from?
I forget my studies but I will find the references you need
The biggest flaw in modern christianity is the trinity how many of you believe that nonsense?
I'm one of them, and please don't call my beliefs 'nonsense', you don't have to share my view but at least be respectful about it.
I forget my studies but I will find the references you need
As I said earlier, this is off topic seeing as the thread is about if/how the devil is mentioned in the Bible.
Any further off-topic posts will be removed.
If you have a seperate issue you want to discuss, feel free to start a relevant thread on it.
Saaf_laandon_mo
05-06-2006, 11:13
In Islam the origin of the devil is as follows: When God created Adam he commanded all his angels to bow before Adam. Iblis (one of the angels) did not and as a result he was outcast from God's kingdom. As a result Iblis responded by declaring it his mission to turn people away from God and his religion (i.e Islam).
We also believe in hell and heaven and additionally punishment in the grave. Basically up until the day of Judgement all dead people are punished in the grave for their wrong doings in this world while they were alive (eg - those who went against islam etc etc). on the day of judgement those that have committed more sin go to hell, the rest heaven. That is basically it in a concise nutshell.
In Islam the origin of the devil is as follows: When God created Adam he commanded all his angels to bow before Adam. Iblis (one of the angels) did not and as a result he was outcast from God's kingdom. As a result Iblis responded by declaring it his mission to turn people away from God and his religion (i.e Islam).
Some similarities with us lot then :)
zing_deleted
05-06-2006, 11:16
The biggest flaw in modern christianity is the trinity how many of you believe that nonsense?
I'm one of them, and please don't call my beliefs 'nonsense', you don't have to share my view but at least be respectful about it.
Quite right and I apoligise for my lack of respect :)
Graham M
05-06-2006, 11:17
All religions are similar in one way or another :)
Saaf_laandon_mo
05-06-2006, 11:20
lots russ..... additonally contrary to a lot of popular belief hell is not just reserved for non muslims and heaven for muslims. Im quite certain that all followers of the books of God (depending on how well they followed the books) have places in heaven eg jews and christians. Idol worshippers and non believers (of God, not islam) are 'guaranteed' a place in hell.
Before a non believer jumps on me, this is just an interpretation of the religion, in answer to the original post and further posts.
Graham M
05-06-2006, 11:21
Before a non believer jumps on me, this is just an interpretation of the religion, in answer to the original post and further posts.
Well to a non-beleiver (Atheist or otherwise) surely there is no reason to beleive in a heaven or hell?
Hoping to follow a similiar vein;
I know people aren't meant to follow false idols, but what about the extremely high regard for some footballers, who are in some ways idolised - will football 'fanatics' see hell if it exists?
ok i read this in The Metro this morning but they didn't explain it
they said that the 666 thing comes from a mis translation of Revalations and the Bible.. anyone else know if that is true ?
doesn't revalations talk about the Devil and Hell and stuff ?
i want to hear from the devil worshipers of this board....... :erm:
after all, they are worshiping a god fo some kind.
and if a devil worshiper dies, does he go to his heaven?
ik
ok i read this in The Metro this morning but they didn't explain it
they said that the 666 thing comes from a mis translation of Revalations and the Bible.. anyone else know if that is true ?
doesn't revalations talk about the Devil and Hell and stuff ?
Just for reference tommorow is 06/06/06 :devsmoke:
There are a lot of problems with the bible and things that some people claim are it are not. Which was the reason I started thinking about hell and the devil. Also it is because I am intrested in how much of the bible you can see in another form in modern storytelling, the story of the devil and hell is intresting.
I do not belive in a religion but I think it is a amazing thing and a good thing overall.
So why was the devil cast out of heaven and what did he do after? Also the final book of the bible is the destruction of the earth? Do we know who wrote it and did the devil have any part in it? What was gods part?
Also, Is the second coming actually in the bible?
we will all die, eternal damnation is what were afriad of, religion puts the fear in to you, to create the falsehood of being a 'brother' a fellow follower, stop all your devilish deeds :D
BS is all i say :)
TheDaddy
05-06-2006, 14:25
My daughter is due to be born tomorrow :devsmoke: we shall have to remember to get the Old Spice music ready for when she pops out :)
<snip>
BS is all i say :)
You're not wrong there, but personally, I would invert 'BS' and 'is', and stick it at the end rather than the beginning of the sentence. It makes for easier reading. ;)
intresting.
I do not belive in a religion but I think it is a amazing thing and a good thing overall.
So why was the devil cast out of heaven and what did he do after? Also the final book of the bible is the destruction of the earth? Do we know who wrote it and did the devil have any part in it? What was gods part?
agreed nothing wrong with having faith
i think someone stated the Devil thing earlier.. he was the fallen angel.. he was in heaven but then got greedy and jealous and so was past out.. isn't he also referred to has Legion ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legion_%28demon%29
I'm sure Russ could explain this better.. but revelations was written by John
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation
but is part of the new testament..
tried to check on wikipedia but no entry for that
Hoping to follow a similiar vein;
I know people aren't meant to follow false idols, but what about the extremely high regard for some footballers, who are in some ways idolised - will football 'fanatics' see hell if it exists?
We believe they will unless they repent of their sins and accept Jesus died and rose again.
and if a devil worshiper dies, does he go to his heaven?
As above.
Also, Is the second coming actually in the bible?
Yes in Revelations.
You're not wrong there, but personally, I would invert 'BS' and 'is', and stick it at the end rather than the beginning of the sentence. It makes for easier reading. ;)
sorry :D
i know ill be going to hell if i there is a religion thats actually right, i already know whats going to happen to me when i die in the eventuality of the religion im supposed to be following and believes it is the true religion.
i hope that made sense. :D
<snip>
We believe they will unless they repent of their sins and accept Jesus died and rose again.
what if the devil worshipers do accept that jesus died on the cross and rose again, but still worshiped satan?
is hell their heaven?
ik
I have just removed a couple of posts in line with Russ' request for this to remain strictly on topic. :)
what if the devil worshipers do accept that jesus died on the cross and rose again, but still worshiped satan?
It's more than that - it's also to accept Jesus as one's personal saviour. To do that (and mean it in your heart) would mean Big G would be your object of worship.
John Lenon was probably right about there being no hell below us, above us only sky.
timewarrior2001
05-06-2006, 20:27
Just for reference tommorow is 06/06/06 :devsmoke:
Yeah and I have my wedding re-hersal in the local god shop tomorrow :(
Oh well I can always ask the methodists what they think about this.
The bit about getting into heaven, accepting jesus as your savour and accpeting he died and rose again..
What does the religion think will happen to people who have lived well, followed a lot of the 'morals' though people nice (i.e not stealing, killing, etc etc). But cannot belive in god and jesus?
In other words, would they be rejected from heaven (or sent to hell) on the basis of faith alone
The bit about getting into heaven, accepting jesus as your savour and accpeting he died and rose again..
What does the religion think will happen to people who have lived well, followed a lot of the 'morals' though people nice (i.e not stealing, killing, etc etc). But cannot belive in god and jesus?
In other words, would they be rejected from heaven (or sent to hell) on the basis of faith alone
Way off topic and I can see this turning in to the usual.....
The Bible states we are redeemed by faith, faith in Almighty God and His son Lord Jesus Christ paid the price for our 'naughty stuff' by defeating death and returning returning from the grave.
Satan means opposer and accuser.
It does not have to be the same entity every time.
Lucifer is only used once in the bible (Isaiah 14:12) and translates to light bringer (this has also been interpreted as morning star), and is likely to be a taunt to the King of Babylon. Isiah 14:16 for instance says "Is this the man who made the earth tremble?" not demon, devil, or satan.
In the OT, satan is a tool of god, in Isaiah 45:7 God says: "I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe; I the Lord do all these things."
So god clearly states he creates everything, both "good" and "evil"
The early christian church linked Isiah 14:12 with Luke 10:18: "He said to them, I watched Satan fall from heaven like a flash of lightning." and so the link between Lucifer and Satan was made.
Of course, the early church was quite eager to wipe out or assimilate other pagan religions with all their imps and daemons etc, and to label these as evil and give them Satan as their boss was very handy in aiding this.
During their slavery in Babylon, the Hebrews were exposed to Zoroastriasm which had a god of good and a god of evil.
It appears that the fall of satan as a rebelious angel is based on non-biblical texts such as the Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha, along with many similar pre-christian myths and allegories that include stories about Lucifer using his Greek name Eosphoros.
As for heaven and hell, Luke 16 talks of a rich man sent to hell who is burned and tormented, and a begger, with sores etc who is taken in to Abraham's bossom.
In the OT however, Shoel has no association with punishment, it is the grave or waiting place of the dead.
John Lenon was probably right about there being no hell below us, above us only sky.
Well, Australia is below us.. Some people would call that "Hell"..
:D
we will all die, eternal damnation is what were afriad of, religion puts the fear in to you, to create the falsehood of being a 'brother' a fellow follower, stop all your devilish deeds :D
BS is all i say :)
Can't speak for other religions but Christianity does the opposite and gives you an assurance that your eternal damnation has been "paid for" by Jesus' dying on the cross.
Can't speak for other religions but Christianity does the opposite and gives you an assurance that your eternal damnation has been "paid for" by Jesus' dying on the cross.
Really?
Christianity (well bits of the NT anyway) make it very clear about the firey lake and eternal torment that awaits anyone not following the christian way of life
That's the charge given to Christians to "spead the word".
If we are all destined to eternal damnation due to our sin, it's pretty good news that someone has lovingly paid the price for us. This makes me feel very grateful and not fearful of death.
That's the charge given to Christians to "spead the word".
If we are all destined to eternal damnation due to our sin, it's pretty good news that someone has lovingly paid the price for us. This makes me feel very grateful and not fearful of death.
How does it make you feel about the people who don't agree with the christian way of life, and the eternal damnation that you believe will be forced upon them?
Very concerned. That is why we as Christians must tell others.
However we can't force people or talk them into it. All we can do is tell others and urge them to seek God. Evangelising isn't about presenting a scientific or convincing arguement but about presenting a hope and a redemption. It is then up to the individual to seek to meet with God and find their salvation.
Very concerned. That is why we as Christians must tell others.
However we can't force people or talk them into it. All we can do is tell others and urge them to seek God. Evangelising isn't about presenting a scientific or convincing arguement but about presenting a hope and a redemption. It is then up to the individual to seek to meet with God and find their salvation.
How do you feel about your god putting these people through eternal torment?
well personally I am already in my own hell. :(
the only thing missing is the fire
ik
Saaf_laandon_mo
06-06-2006, 11:32
The thing I don't understand about christianity from Salu's post, and others Ive read on other threads is the opinion that Jesus has paid the price for your sins. Does this mean that if you believe in Jesus you will go to heaven straight away, irregardless of sins you've committed on earth. Or do you have to pay a 'price' by spending some time in Hell if you've been a naughty boy or girl.
I was always led to believe that you need to do some hell time if your sins outweigh the good deeds, and that there is no such thing as enternal damnation unless your a non believer of god full stop.
If its the case that you go to heaven straight away, simply by embracing jesus, whats the point of things like the 10 commandments, andreligious morals/ethics. Wouldnt it be easier to embrace Christ and do what you want?
MAybe this post belongs to a different thread, and Im not having a pop at christianity, im just trying to get an understanding of the interpretation that Christ has paid for all your sins in advance as such.
zing_deleted
06-06-2006, 11:34
Im reading this thread and early on when I had input was told by Russ that any off topic posts would be removed? I was cut off from my discussion of Jesus etc and was told to stay on topic which is Hell and Satan do they exist.I see a lot of off topic posts just left to carry on.Was the warning just for my benefit?
Well my question is answered :)
Techincally people are still talking about hell so I do not think its that off topic.
The Bible states we are redeemed by faith, faith in Almighty God and His son Lord Jesus Christ paid the price for our 'naughty stuff' by defeating death and returning returning from the grave.
Still confuses me. According to the faith can someone get into heaven regardless of faith (or lack of)?
Saaf_laandon_mo
06-06-2006, 12:04
Im reading this thread and early on when I had input was told by Russ that any off topic posts would be removed? I was cut off from my discussion of Jesus etc and was told to stay on topic which is Hell and Satan do they exist.I see a lot of off topic posts just left to carry on.Was the warning just for my benefit?
maybe you've got 666 stamped on your forehead ;)
How do you feel about your god putting these people through eternal torment?
The price of sin has to be paid for. It used to be via sacrifices being made where the blood spilt covered the sin etc (see old testament). This was not a final answer only a temporary covering. However God loved us so much that he sent his only son as a sacrifice to pay for all our sins and redeem us forever. All we have to do is believe in him, confess our sin to him and try to live our lives as pure as possible. Only those that choose not to follow him will perish. The commision of Christians is to tell others about what he has done. However people do seek and find God independantly of Christians telling them. To be honest Christians do not tell others enough for fear of persecution, ridicule etc.
The cause of people "perishing in eternal damnation" is the devil and not God.
Im reading this thread and early on when I had input was told by Russ that any off topic posts would be removed? I was cut off from my discussion of Jesus etc and was told to stay on topic which is Hell and Satan do they exist.I see a lot of off topic posts just left to carry on.Was the warning just for my benefit?
Zinglebarb - you have a good point. This thread is indeed drifting off topic. Maybe a mod could create a new thread called "Answers to Christianity" and move the relavent ones in...?
Sorry to bring up yet another topic on the Bible and religion in general but I could not find answers to these questions online.
I found quite a bit of info online, google is my friend
My question is bascially how much about hell and the devil is in the bible and how much has been added (invented?) afterwards? For example, is hell even mentioned in the bible and what references are there to the devil (if he is even refered into as 'the devil')?
The OT portrays satan as an opposer and accuser, working for god.
It also has sheol, which is "the grave" or waiting place of the dead. It could indeed simply mean the hole in the ground that you put a body.
Most of these books were developed before the Hebrews were exposed to Zoroastriasm (more on that later)
The NT however has more on demons and satan as an entity, or god of evil.
Also is there any agreement on hell and the devil from other faiths?
Well, Zoroastriasm has a god of good, and a god of evil (similar to the modernish belief of the devil)
You have to remember that Judaism, Christianity and Islam all stem from the same religion.
Christianity was a jewish sect until they split off with the announcment of the Jewish Messiah (shortly before he was killed in the revolt against the Romans)
Islam comes from the Ishmaelites, the son of Abraham who was sent out into the desert with his mother to die, but Allah led them to an oaisis and they lived.
These all believe similar things with regards to heaven and hell.
---------- Post added at 12:10 ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 ----------
The cause of people "perishing in eternal damnation" is the devil and not God.
According to Isaiah 45:7 the cause is god.
The thing I don't understand about christianity from Salu's post, and others Ive read on other threads is the opinion that Jesus has paid the price for your sins. Does this mean that if you believe in Jesus you will go to heaven straight away, irregardless of sins you've committed on earth. Or do you have to pay a 'price' by spending some time in Hell if you've been a naughty boy or girl.
I was always led to believe that you need to do some hell time if your sins outweigh the good deeds, and that there is no such thing as enternal damnation unless your a non believer of god full stop.
If its the case that you go to heaven straight away, simply by embracing jesus, whats the point of things like the 10 commandments, andreligious morals/ethics. Wouldnt it be easier to embrace Christ and do what you want?
MAybe this post belongs to a different thread, and Im not having a pop at christianity, im just trying to get an understanding of the interpretation that Christ has paid for all your sins in advance as such.
It's not just belief but acknowledment of your sins and repentance. You must choose to follow him too and try to live your life according to his teaching. You then will be assured of salvation and will not go to Hell at all. There is no such place as purgatory. Repenting of your sin and carrying on purposefully sinning is not in the spirit of salvation but as humans we will continue to sin but should repent when we realise it with a contrite heart.
zing_deleted
06-06-2006, 12:18
I believe that we will all stand and be judged on our heart.God will know who is good and who is evil and judgement imo will be made on these facts and no other.The bible says there is only 1 true religion so that makes a hell of a lot of people who are worshipping false Gods and a very few worshipping the correct one.If God only allows those following him correctly then there will be very few people going to be resurrected,I also believe that those who are not resurrected will not be cast into hell but simply there existence will end.
According to Isaiah 45:7 the cause is god.
Isaiah 45:7
I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the LORD, do all these things.
He may have created everything but that doesn't mean He has "caused" eternal damnation for those who choose to reject salvation....
But does the maker of a bomb not have to accept some of the responciability for its use?
I believe that we will all stand and be judged on our heart.God will know who is good and who is evil and judgement imo will be made on these facts and no other.The bible says there is only 1 true religion so that makes a hell of a lot of people who are worshipping false Gods and a very few worshipping the correct one.If God only allows those following him correctly then there will be very few people going to be resurrected,I also believe that those who are not resurrected will not be cast into hell but simply there existence will end.
You've obviously convinced yourself and maybe you will convince others too. But will you convince God when you stand before him to justify your life? You may want this to be the case but it is not what God says in His word.
When Christ comes again, there will be many who choose to follow him then as it will be quite spectacular. However there will still be those who will elect to not choose to follow him.
Isaiah 45:7
I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the LORD, do all these things.
He may have created everything but that doesn't mean He has "caused" eternal damnation for those who choose to reject salvation....
Who decided that those who do not follow him recieve eternal damnation?
Isaiah 45:7
I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the LORD, do all these things.
He may have created everything but that doesn't mean He has "caused" eternal damnation for those who choose to reject salvation....
But surely it lies within his power to accept those who don't follow his teachings but he chooses not too (allegedly)?
zing_deleted
06-06-2006, 12:27
I believe that we will all stand and be judged on our heart.God will know who is good and who is evil and judgement imo will be made on these facts and no other.The bible says there is only 1 true religion so that makes a hell of a lot of people who are worshipping false Gods and a very few worshipping the correct one.If God only allows those following him correctly then there will be very few people going to be resurrected,I also believe that those who are not resurrected will not be cast into hell but simply there existence will end.
You've obviously convinced yourself and maybe you will convince others too. But will you convince God when you stand before him to justify your life? You may want this to be the case but it is not what God says in His word.
When Christ comes again, there will be many who choose to follow him then as it will be quite spectacular. However there will still be those who will elect to not choose to follow him.
I will take my chances worshipping him in my way I will not take a chance and choose one of 1000's of other churches or religions.You have obviously convinced yourself your church is the one so is yours different to Russ's or is it the same? maybe you could discuss who actually is right and who isnt?
When Armageddon comes if im still alive then Jesus will get my support as he always has done.If im dead then I wont be judged at that time but Ill be resurrected later and face whats coming to me
Saaf_laandon_mo
06-06-2006, 12:27
Your're All Going To Hell.... Everyone Knows The One True Religion Is Football!!!!
But does the maker of a bomb not have to accept some of the responciability for its use?
The way I look at it is that God "could" have made us into robots following God in everyway. Would you like to cast a spell on your partner to make them love you and worship you all the time? Sounds good at first but is their love sincere? What I believe God wants is for us to choose to love him and follow him. So God has created light and dark and desires that we choose the light...but doesn't force us...
---------- Post added at 12:29 ---------- Previous post was at 12:28 ----------
Who decided that those who do not follow him recieve eternal damnation?
Maybe you should ask God that one?
---------- Post added at 12:30 ---------- Previous post was at 12:29 ----------
I will take my chances worshipping him in my way I will not take a chance and choose one of 1000's of other churches or religions.You have obviously convinced yourself your church is the one so is yours different to Russ's or is it the same? maybe you could discuss who actually is right and who isnt?
When Armageddon comes if im still alive then Jesus will get my support as he always has done.If im dead then I wont be judged at that time but Ill be resurrected later and face whats coming to me
Good luck :)
The way I look at it is that God "could" have made us into robots following God in everyway. Would you like to cast a spell on your partner to make them love you and worship you all the time? Sounds good at first but is their love sincere? What I believe God wants is for us to choose to love him and follow him. So God has created light and dark and desires that we choose the light...but doesn't force us...
I think what people question is 'his' giving us choice, when in fact not giving us choice, as by knowledge you 'know' that if you don't follow him you will suffer eternal pain and all that. Wouldn't your faith in him be more justly tested if you were to not know of this?? Having to believe in something for fear or repercussions if you don't?
JediMaster
06-06-2006, 12:36
Well, Australia is below us.. Some people would call that "Hell"... :D
lol....... My Brother is moving there for a few years with Work...:disturbd:
............ Jehovas Witnesses are the only ones that put masses and masses of time and money into researching historically the facts from the time and of course translations of the scriptures. Now I know they get bad press because of the blood issue and knocking on doors but they are the only religion that whole heartedly try to live the closest to Gods word out of all of them.I comend them for it.
In the end the bible says there is only 1 true religion and all the rest are basically doing Satans work so to make it easy I follow none and just rest in my opwn faith
I just stumbled onto this Topic from Home Page.... I saw your post (1st one) & thought are you a J/W? Sounded like you were ;)
I am a J/W in South Wales
I think what people question is 'his' giving us choice, when in fact not giving us choice, as by knowledge you 'know' that if you don't follow him you will suffer eternal pain and all that. Wouldn't your faith in him be more justly tested if you were to not know of this?? Having to believe in something for fear or repercussions if you don't?
The fear of eternal pain etc....isn't compulsary you know... :) many people turn to God for other reasons that are appropriate to their problems here on earth. Others have a near to death experience, others have an emptiness in their hearts, others have a father figure missing which prompts their search.
The main impotus should be awareness of your own failings and sinfullness not fear...
But it is a part of the religion, and one pretty much universally known, despite 14 years of catholic teaching, I've never got anyone to clearly explain to me why God had to send his son down in order to forgive us, when he could have done so quite easily. Or the hypocritcal nature God is shown to have, forgiving in some instances but not others.
The God described in the Bible being omniscient, shouldn't have to have people congregate for worship every week, surely he'd understand their love throughout their lives? And since when have people we loved also been worthy of worship anyway?
Macca371
06-06-2006, 13:34
I will never understand Christianity. I don't really believe that people are inherently evil, or that people choose to be evil. People commit evil because of social circumstances, mental disorders, fear, lack of understanding, selfishness. All of these things are out of people's control. Of course, people should be punished for crimes they have commited and society should be protected. But the idea of eternal damnation simply for being created in a certain way, to me, is absolutely ridiculous. I'm quite certain that any benevolent and omniscient God that may exist wouldn't do such a thing.
---------- Post added at 13:34 ---------- Previous post was at 13:30 ----------
I also don't understand this thing about blind faith. Instead of analysing a belief system logically, we should just accept it as it is without questioning? Can't this be applied to absolutely anything that asks us to do this and therefore we can't distinguish which one is right and which is wrong?
No thanks. I'd rather accept the tenets of science, logic and common sense. Blind faith is dangerous.
vBulletin® v3.8.11, Copyright ©2000-2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.