View Full Version : Want ADSL?-Read on....
As you may know, a little while I decided enough was enough & decided to ditch my ntl BB service, & get ADSL-even though my 'service' was subsidised by ntl for helping to run .com, I decided I would rather pay for a decent service than get a shoddy one cheap.
I just wanted people to know just how easy & painless the switch can be, as I know a lot of people are worried about the 'difficulties' in switching BB providers.
So if you're thinking of ditching ntl BB, & want to get ADSL, read on & I'll show you just how easy it can be!
First of all, for ADSL you need a BT phone line. If you haven't got one (but did have as most ntl customers came from BT), then BT offer free reconnection, & all you have to do is call 0808 100 5152. I did just that & a very professional chap took me through the whole process in about 5 minutes (including confirming that the existing phone number could be kept) They take care of the whole phone line switch, & you won't even have to speak to ntl about it!) :p
They gave me an installation date/time (between 8 & 10.30am), & even said that if the engineer could do the job from 'outside' the house (I.E at the green box) & didn't need to come in that they would ring me on my mobile so I could then go to work knowing I didn't have to wait in (complete opposite of ntl)
The engineer arrived at 8.30 am, & activated the main socket, & also the extension, & left at about 9.30am, he was very professional in his manner, & also his appearance-job done. :)
So-now you've got your BT phone line (or already have one), what do you do now? You need to settle on a DSL provider. I went to ADSLGuide.org, & used their 'compare ISPs' link. I kind of knew the three main providers I was thinking of (Pipex/Zen/Nildram), as I had spoken to various friends/family that had DSL to get their opinions.
After mulling it over, I went for Pipex. So I went to their website & entered my phone number. It confirmed that DSL was available, & that I could order there & then online! :D
I did just that, & got an email back confirming my order, & telling me I would soon receive a reference number to track the status of my order. That mail arrived the next day, & I watched as it was handed to BT to do a physical check on the line for DSL compatibility, up to the point where I got a mail with an activation date. When I got this, I ordered my wireless DSL modem/router & waited for the day to come. :p
They said it would be activated by the end of the working day, & by Jove it was! I plugged in my router, entered the Pipex username/passwords they had sent me in the post (just as they had said they would in the original e-mail :) ), & away I went.
I personally cannot fault Pipex, their staff have been courteous, polite, professional, & most of all-knowledgeable.
So-if there's anyone out there who thinks that it's a nightmare to switch phone providers/BB providers-think again!
Below are all the links I think you will need for a hassle free switch-take the plunge, you won't regret it. :)
Below are the links you will need to get you going, good luck & may the force be with you!
1) Check ADSL availability in your area via the BT website by clicking here. (http://www.bt.com/athome/at_home_2level.jsp?showsub=internet_at_home&obsNoSee=Y&vStore=1120&obsPage=/at_home.jsp&obsType=LINK&obsOID=46435) (remember if you have an ntl phone then you have to check it via postcode & that is not as accurate as the BT number checker, but it will give you a very good idea)
2) If you can get ADSL, & want to switch to BT, then ring them for free on 0800 100 5152 & get the number ported back to BT.
3) Compare ADSL providers by going to ADSLGuide. (http://www.adslguide.org.uk/isps/compare.asp)
4) Once you have settled on a provider, sit back & relax in the knowledge that your days of crappy/unreliable transparent proxies, ****** poor email service/BS from tech support of "you'll need to reformat/you've got a virus/reinstall Windows/it's down to spyware/down to Kazaa" are on their way out!
It took 6 days from BT livening the phone line, to Pipex getting BT to activate it for DSL, & remember that as you have to give ntl one month's notice to ditch their shoddy 'service', you needn't be without BB at all-in fact, if you've got a spare PC/laptop-why not just connect it to the ntl connection for the remainder of your month & get your money's worth!? :p
Anyway-like I said, don't feel it's a painful process-it isn't. It can be done quickly, & painlessly, & if anyone wants any more help assistance in this area, feel free to drop me a PM or reply in this thread. :)
Over & out!
Winner of 3 recent ISP Awards-click here for more info----> http://www.solo.pipex.net/new-images-dir/corporate/2003-3awards-anim-ffffff-120x115-2.gif (http://www.pipex.net/news/2003/14/)
One thingg to just point out (as I was looking at doing the same).
Most providers who offer free modems are 'normally' not very good (looking at the stats) - e.g. Freeserve, BT Yahoo, Tiscali - and also the modems are normally USB ones.
This means that if you have a router serving a number of PCs, then this will not normally work (most take Ethernet, not USB - but some may).
There is a way that this will work, but involves going through the main pc, leaving it on etc.
Can I just add eclipse onto the recommendations....
Good point 'lemarsh'
That's why I got a combined router/ADSL modem (wireless too!)
I got my (Netgear DG824M) router (together with a (again, Netgear) wireless ethernet 'bridge' (model ME101) for my XBOX too as a bundled package from www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk They were also very efficient in the whole ordering/tracking/delivering process.
Link to wireless router section: http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/default_ShopGroup.asp?ShopGroupID=38&Alt=Yes
HTH.
DrAwesome
29-11-2003, 10:50
There is also a charge if you upgrade or downgrade your service.. so choose carefully if you decide to make the switch
You'll need to pay the service regrade fee that PIPEX are charged by BT (£35 + VAT) so it's worth considering carefully whether you will need the service before you sign up.
Other changes of service are likely to require a full cease and reprovide. At present, the £35 + VAT charge only applies to the following PIPEX Xtreme service regrades: Solo/Solo2Go 500 to Solo 1000... Solo/Solo2Go 500 to Home Office 1000 and Home Office 500 to Home Office 1000
Followed the exact same path as you Neil :D Everything was smooth, from both BT & Pipex, everything arrived on time, The Username and Password both worked (Unlike a certain other company :rolleyes: ), and I cant fault the service :)
And as a added extra you arent stuck in a 12 month Contract !(though its £50 to cancel)
Ooh, I get it, we now have to guess who is Neil/Ben/Mick on the pipexwoe (http://www.pipexwoe.org.uk/forum/) forum...Right?
--------------------
Neil
Administrator, nthellworld.co.uk
www.nthellworld.co.uk
-----------------
Not that neil felt any need to hide the fact when all said and done is it just you being troublesomed?
And from looking at the Installtion Issues section it woul dbe the first time Ive seen one empty...
Good luck Neil and well don Pipex I would say..
(From someone who has been aware of the quality of pipex product since 1994 when I first used the dial up service)
*so jealous*
Moved from an ex-cwc BB (I've had great service) house to a non cabled one, thought not to worry, can get adsl, will go with pipex as they're one of the best.
Explained this to parents, made it clear WE ARE GOING WITH PIPEX
Parents phone up Sky to get that installed, get told they can have BT broadband, and decide to ignore my sound advice.
So BT Broad****e installed.
I quickly look into getting it transfered to Pipex before the first two weeks are up and we're locked in for a year.
Parents decide to wait a week "to make sure its working"
BT stall the move to Pipex and so we're stuck with a ****e service for a year
I'm not a happy bunny.
Apart from the extra expense, I don't see anything wrong with BT Broadband .. you're connecting to the same exchange to the same equipment as any other DSL provider .. oh wait, there is only 1 (unless they have LLU) .. BT.
Apart from the extra expense, I don't see anything wrong with BT Broadband
Poor customer service, no news servers (that I know of), smtp traffic restrictions...
Poor customer service, no news servers (that I know of), smtp traffic restrictions...
At times Pipex's customer service is way beyond sh*te, example, 3 weeks to reply to an email (if they bother replying), staff that blatently lie through their teeth, refusing to acknowledge new payment methods, taking more than one subscription a month, totally cocking up upgrades, not being open out of normal office hours (no weekend cover). New's servers? Don't care for them, that's what I use news2me for and you can run your own SMTP server on a port of your choice.
If anyone is thinking of switching, & wants any other info, feel free to contact me, if you settle on Pipex-let me refer you & I get a free month's ADSL! :D
Er sorry to disapoint but no you don't, at least not right now.
http://www.xtreme.pipex.net/adsl/services/refer/
Can I just ask why a thread on Pipex ADSL is in the NTL discussion forum ?
Florence
29-11-2003, 19:47
Can I just ask why a thread on Pipex ADSL is in the NTL discussion forum ?
Because Neil and Steve H have moved to pipex from NTL
I'm so grateful for all the info Neil, I'm going to call BT on Monday, I'm so fed up with Ntl, time to dump the lot I think. If I take Pipex I'll put you down as my referrer ;)
Simply Gray
29-11-2003, 20:25
Ex-cwc and also thinking of moving from NTL. Fed up with email service, BB service and TV service. Does anyone know of a site that provides comparison between NTL and Sky/BT/Pipex solution, i.e. costs and service?
downquark1
29-11-2003, 20:25
Great, we'll end up with a NTL forum with no NTL customers :p
DrAwesome
29-11-2003, 20:39
I'm so grateful for all the info Neil, I'm going to call BT on Monday, I'm so fed up with Ntl, time to dump the lot I think. If I take Pipex I'll put you down as my referrer ;)
You can call these free phone numbers BT Customer Options Team 0800 800 880 or 0800 085 2786 (alternative numbers to 0808 100 5152) so you dont have to pay for the call to defect :)
If you wish to keep your existing NTL phone number ask whoever you speak to check with the Number Port people a few NTL phone numbers cannot be transfered.
Who owns the best looking adsl modem? :)
Because Neil and Steve H have moved to pipex from NTL
Nevermind - obviously the rules appear to have changed recently - like a thread I was reading earlier from someone with an NTL BB problem - Neil seemed more interesting in advising them how to jump ship rather than offering any NTL related help.
http://www.nthellworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=4703
How times change ......
Nevermind - obviously the rules appear to have changed recently - like a thread I was reading earlier from someone with an NTL BB problem - Neil seemed more interesting in advising them how to jump ship rather than offering any NTL related help.
http://www.nthellworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=4703
How times change ......
Can you blame him, after all they have done to ruin the other site! :rolleyes:
But you are right, times do change, and Ntl will prolly wake up soon and find no customers. As Mr Pratchett one wrote, there's "Interesting times ahead".
Hell Fighter
29-11-2003, 23:32
I'm having my BT Line activated for 2 meg broadband in the next 10 days providing the line is up to scratch.
Hopefully the whole process will go okay :)
DrAwesome
30-11-2003, 01:08
Nevermind - obviously the rules appear to have changed recently - like a thread I was reading earlier from someone with an NTL BB problem - Neil seemed more interesting in advising them how to jump ship rather than offering any NTL related help.
http://www.nthellworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=4703
How times change ......
There is no rule saying you must stick with NTL as a provider to help on this site.. Neil provided an option as a solution to the problem that vaiolator had experienced.
carlingman
30-11-2003, 02:51
Nevermind - obviously the rules appear to have changed recently - like a thread I was reading earlier from someone with an NTL BB problem - Neil seemed more interesting in advising them how to jump ship rather than offering any NTL related help.
http://www.nthellworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=4703
How times change ......
Just to clarify a few things I believe Neil changed providers when he was still with NTL according to his first post saying he would rather pay for a connection that works rather than having a subsidised connection that is unreliable.
As for advertising to jump ship well maybe so he is allowed to suggest free speech here as he is not on the payroll for NTL anymore.
Things do change and this is classic example of that.
He obviously had the same views over at .com and was not allowed to speak his true feelings as he was being paid by them and had to appear to be offering help.
To me it smacks of double standards but at least here this site will not be silenced by NTL and all can speak their mind which is a positive move forward but there are still people around who will help rather than give the answer to jump ship.
Myself I would advise to move on to another provider but then again I am biest as i have been with Piepx for some time now and they rock.
As for the comments about their services mentioned elsewhere i myself am not too bothered about those as i have never had to contact them as their service has been faultless up to now.
:)
th'engineer
30-11-2003, 08:33
Great, we'll end up with a NTL forum with no NTL customers :p
Dont be daft NTL will keep bringing in more members by consistantly providing a crap service
I'm having my BT Line activated for 2 meg broadband in the next 10 days providing the line is up to scratch.
Hopefully the whole process will go okay :)
Just out of interest, who are you getting your BB through? I'm seriously looking at the Bulldog off peak one, luckily the exchange I'm likely to be connected to is Bulldog enabled (what ever that means :confused: ).
Bill Payer
30-11-2003, 14:31
Can I just ask why a thread on Pipex ADSL is in the NTL discussion forum ?[/][QUOTE=Kitty]Because Neil and Steve H have moved to pipex from NTL
If I change from NTL to SKY can I start a thread in "General ntl Discussion "?
th'engineer
30-11-2003, 15:16
If I change from NTL to SKY can I start a thread in "General ntl Discussion "?
Thought we had done that and agreed Sky is better:rolleyes:
Demonstrating and spelling out, how easy and trouble-free it is for customers to change their services, could be one of the most effective ways to make ntl improve their services.
It is often the customers' inertia and apprehension of hassle that holds back customers from switching service providers. This is something that ntl relies upon, they hardly want all their customers knowing how easy it is, or they will all likely be changing.
Showing customers, the ease that a change can be made, will help customers to make the change, and will encourage ntl to improve. It will also make ntl take more notice of this site, as they seem to be of the opinion that we can be ignored.
To quote Ashg - we could close the site down, ride out a few weeks bad press and quietly ignore the many protest sites and alternative sites that would undoubtedly spring up. But that's actually the easy way out. End-quote.
This type of thread adds to the effective impact that this site will have on ntl, and strengthens our hand. We need more of it.
Just out of interest, who are you getting your BB through? I'm seriously looking at the Bulldog off peak one, luckily the exchange I'm likely to be connected to is Bulldog enabled (what ever that means :confused: ).
I did look @ Bulldog Dell, but I didn't/don't like the idea of being locked into a 12 month contract. :nono:
Foo Fighter
30-11-2003, 18:41
How much does adsl cost now per month?
£10 for the line and about £20 for a 512k line?
Wan't extra upload speed really and dont need 1mb at the minute, ntl really need to make some new services and tiers.
I did look @ Bulldog Dell, but I didn't/don't like the idea of being locked into a 12 month contrac. :nono:
I'm still not sure what I'm gonna do in January when my contract is up, I'm so desperate to get away from Ntl now, just really fed up with the whole thing, but (and you knew there would be one!) after speaking to BT, they want 74.99 GBP to install a new line.
Which is a bit of a bummer seeing as the line is here and we're connected to the exchange (the whole estate was done by BT and NTL when built 3 years ago) but they want 75 quid to switch it on.
On top of that any of the decent ISPs want about 50GBP activation and that's before I even consider buying a modem. I know if i want to pay a little more each month (and go for a not so good ISP) I can get the modem included but I really wanted an internal one (not really that much of a problem there not that expensive 30GBP ish).
Its all beginning to mount up, but saying that the bulldog off-peak 2Mbps (http://www.bulldogdsl.com/residential/products/primetime/primetime.asp) tariff is really enticing (29.99GBP atm).
The 12 month contract isn;t too much of a worry for me, but the install fee is :rolleyes:
I guess I've got a little while to make my mind up, but I wonder if I can sweet talk BT into dropping the (non)installation charge?
If I change from NTL to SKY can I start a thread in "General ntl Discussion "?
Certainly-Just so long as you show everyone how easy it is to switch to Sky, & provide them with your own personal experience of the switch, & support it with the relevant links etc. :)
Pierre Bordeaux
30-11-2003, 19:27
Certainly-Just so long as you show everyone how easy it is to switch ...<snip>
So Neil, did your friend sort out
1. MSN keeping signing in & out
2. the IRC disconnecting every five minutes and
3. ftp disconnecting every five minutes?
So Neil, did your friend sort out the IRC and ftp disconnecting every few minutes?
Haven't tried yet (not really a priority at the mo TBH)
michaelp
30-11-2003, 19:33
I was with cwc / NTL for 6 years, a couple on BB. I just got fed up with them, and moved to adsl in June. It's all been absolutely fine, and I am now with plus net at £18.99 pcm (I don't use p2p or binaries), which is so much better than 150k NTL for £1 more. I save more than that on call costs. Cable TV was rubbish, and I've got freeview, which is fine, it works and formats my 16:9 tv picture correctly.
I initially tried adsl with Zen, who were great, but 'Plus.Net' is better value. It's nice to be able to change ISP though.
I kept my Linksys BEFSR41 router, and hooked the WAN port to a D-link-300G+ modem. Easy. I honestly have not regreted changing once, and just felt relief at leaving NTL. Shame really, as cable is good in theory, but obviously needs responsible provisioning.
poolking
30-11-2003, 19:34
pem - this site isn't owned by NTL so the team can discuss whatever they like.
michaelp
30-11-2003, 19:49
I'm still not sure what I'm gonna do in January when my contract is up, I'm so desperate to get away from Ntl now, just really fed up with the whole thing, but (and you knew there would be one!) after speaking to BT, they want 74.99 GBP to install a new line.
TBH, I didn't care in the end if it was going to cost me, I just wanted out of NTL.
I got free re-connection to BT, and kept my number. Why can't you get free re-connection?
After NTL I only wanted a monthly contract (just in case), but got a free activation offer at Zen. So I bought my modem, and recently paid £35 for migration to plus net.
Plus Net are offering activation, filters and USB modem at the moment on a 1 year, £25pcm contract. The point with adsl is there are loads of ISP's, you find the deal that's right for you.
Why can't you get free re-connection?
Because were the only people that have ever lived in this house, and even though the line is installed, and we have the BT box on the wall they consider it a new connection and its £74.99, but I'm going to ring them and try and get them to do it for a reduced price, after all the cables and stuff are all in the house all they need to do is connect it up at the exchange.
DrAwesome
30-11-2003, 23:29
Just out of interest, who are you getting your BB through? I'm seriously looking at the Bulldog off peak one, luckily the exchange I'm likely to be connected to is Bulldog enabled (what ever that means :confused: ).
At a guess some BT exchanges although adsl upgraded can only handle a certain adsl speed (someone will nodoubt correct me if this is incorrect).
Trouble with Bulldog is that your limited to 512k during non peak time wouldnt be so bad if on the 2meg package you were limited to 1meg during peak times during the day and i think someone has already pointed out that you are tied to a 12 month contract (if you look hard enough you can find a 3month and lower contracts) so if you find the service not to your liking then you have a long wait till you can jump ship..
If your looking to switch from NTL to another provider spend abit of time looking for not so noticable things (as i mentioned before) if you decide to upgrade or downgrade your speed is there a cost.
It wasnt a problem for me to select an adsl service as i wanted a service that is faster/reliable than what i have with NTL... the two main problems for me were/are/was selecting which type of adsl modem (i have already a besfr41 ver 2 cable/dsl router) and i wanted an adsl ethernet modem that was compatible (perferably another linksys product?) but i discovered that linksys only sell wireless adsl modems which wasnt my preference. the other problem was keeping the cost down and try not to go over the £100 mark. You can spend ages/days shopping around for the right adsl hardware because some of the adsl hardware that isp's offer can be expensive and ugly. Once you have decided on which adsl modem you want then its time to hit the search engine again to find the cheapest price and what comes with the product (you might find that you need an extra filters because the adsl modem you have bought only has 1 filter or worse it doesnt ship with any filters at all)
switching providers is easy, making decissions is alot harder
Florence
30-11-2003, 23:43
Dell don't go spending loads to get away from NTll. I have also contacted them but because they took my line down this year when they replaced all lines they also want the full payment to have the line replaced. Then I have been told I can only get 512K if I am lucky. Borderline with the distance from the exchange so I am sitting it out waiting for Telewest to show NTL how to run a profitable cable company. Or powerline interent becoming available here.
gt94sss2
01-12-2003, 15:24
Because were the only people that have ever lived in this house, and even though the line is installed, and we have the BT box on the wall they consider it a new connection and its £74.99, but I'm going to ring them and try and get them to do it for a reduced price, after all the cables and stuff are all in the house all they need to do is connect it up at the exchange.
Ah - that probably explains it..
You cannot get "free reconnection" as yours is not a "reconnection" - as you are the only people ever to have lived there.
On new estates/building projects etc, BT sometimes (with the agreement of the builders) install telephone lines for the residents while the houses are being built - its easier for both BT and the builders to do it then rather than afterwards.
However, BT do not charge the builders for this installation - instead they charge the 1st residents who decide to use BT (which would be you)
Hence, it sometimes looks like a reconnection, including to the people living there - until they realise that its a new house and no one has lived there before. The next issue is obviously why the builders didn't pay :)
btw BT are not allowed to deviate from their price list - OFTEL rules, so cannot "discount" it from you and not for everyone else
Ah - that probably explains it..
You cannot get "free reconnection" as yours is not a "reconnection" - as you are the only people ever to have lived there.
On new estates/building projects etc, BT sometimes (with the agreement of the builders) install telephone lines for the residents while the houses are being built - its easier for both BT and the builders to do it then rather than afterwards.
However, BT do not charge the builders for this installation - instead they charge the 1st residents who decide to use BT (which would be you)
Hence, it sometimes looks like a reconnection, including to the people living there - until they realise that its a new house and no one has lived there before. The next issue is obviously why the builders didn't pay :)
btw BT are not allowed to deviate from their price list - OFTEL rules, so cannot "discount" it from you and not for everyone else
I will prolly have to pay it, but it seems a little hard to swallow when other in the same position get connected for free.
Does make me wonder if they want my business or not! Saying that I haven't actually phoned them yet, so I'll let you all know how I get on.
gt94sss2
01-12-2003, 15:34
At a guess some BT exchanges although adsl upgraded can only handle a certain adsl speed (someone will nodoubt correct me if this is incorrect).
Trouble with Bulldog is that your limited to 512k during non peak time wouldnt be so bad if on the 2meg package you were limited to 1meg during peak times during the day and i think someone has already pointed out that you are tied to a 12 month contract (if you look hard enough you can find a 3month and lower contracts) so if you find the service not to your liking then you have a long wait till you can jump ship..
hehe - consider yourself corrected
All BT ADSL exchanges can cope with the same speeds (as they all have the same equipment fitted) - it just that Bulldog use a different method of backhaul from some of the exchanges to its core network which allows to offer services like its Primetime "time of day" offering at those exchanges
I have to say I now use Bulldog Primetime 2000 and for less than £30 its very good value - even during the day when its supposed to be capped at 512K - I can get 600/650K
Also, if you do have problems that Bulldog can't resolve they appear to offer to release you from the contract.
If anyone does want to join Bulldog - would they mind contacting me privately so that I can refer them :)
Appartantly over 50% of Bulldog's new business currently comes from such referrals!
pem - this site isn't owned by NTL so the team can discuss whatever they like.poolking - I did not say anything about what they can or cannot discuss - I asked why a topic about Pipex adsl was in the NTL discussion forum. So far they haven't actually answered this question. :)
poolking - I did not say anything about what they can or cannot discuss - I asked why a topic about Pipex adsl was in the NTL discussion forum. So far they haven't actually answered this question. :)
Neil was talking about leaving ntl, to go to Pipex, I think Neil was expressing his disappointment with ntl and has decided to move to pipex instead. Please pem, don't be concerned about where threads should or should not be thats our job. ;)
Please pem, don't be concerned about where threads should or should not be thats our job. ;)and last time I checked I was free to ask - or is this against the rules now ?
:Peace:
and last time I checked I was free to ask - or is this against the rules now ?
:Peace:
Not at all but now that we are having this discussion in this thread, we are taking the thread off-topic so... :Peaceman: ;)
and last time I checked I was free to ask - or is this against the rules now ?
:Peace:
Watch out Ive seen the plummbers toolbag.... Wouldnt want hi to get those spanners around my nuts...
poolking - I did not say anything about what they can or cannot discuss - I asked why a topic about Pipex adsl was in the NTL discussion forum. So far they haven't actually answered this question. :)
The thread is here because it is aimed at ntl customers. It is here to show them how easy it is to ditch their BB 'service' & get ADSL.
The topic isn't about Pipex specifically, I only mentioned them in the post as they are who I chose as my DSL provider.
Maybe this thread has highlighted a need for a new forum category?
How about
Alternatives to ntl ?
:D
Florence
01-12-2003, 19:00
Maybe this thread has highlighted a need for a new forum category?
How about
Alternatives to ntl ?
:D
Gets my vote
DrAwesome
01-12-2003, 19:23
hehe - consider yourself corrected
All BT ADSL exchanges can cope with the same speeds (as they all have the same equipment fitted) - it just that Bulldog use a different method of backhaul from some of the exchanges to its core network which allows to offer services like its Primetime "time of day" offering at those exchanges
I have to say I now use Bulldog Primetime 2000 and for less than £30 its very good value - even during the day when its supposed to be capped at 512K - I can get 600/650K
Also, if you do have problems that Bulldog can't resolve they appear to offer to release you from the contract.
If anyone does want to join Bulldog - would they mind contacting me privately so that I can refer them :)
Appartantly over 50% of Bulldog's new business currently comes from such referrals!
Thanks for the correction :)
Before i switched to the other side i could only check that the local BT exchange was adsl compatable by typing in my postcode This method is only 80-90% accurate (typing a phone number is more accurate) the reply i saw said :
"Good news! The checker indicates that ADSL Broadband is available in your area and that the preliminary check on your postcode suggests that you should be able to receive ADSL Broadband services at speeds from 512kilobits per second to 2Megabits per second downstream and 256kilobits per second upstream"
i guess when typing in a phone number will bring up something different?
I guess Bulldog must have a special arrangement with BT as no other adsl isp offer the same service packages.
There are some pitbull falls with bulldog that could be highlighted a deciding factor if Dr. Plummer decides to create a new forum catagory. :)
Maybe this thread has highlighted a need for a new forum category?
How about
Alternatives to ntl ?
:D
Good call
Gets my vote
Mine too! :D
There are some pitbull falls with bulldog that could be highlighted a deciding factor if Dr. Plummer decides to create a new forum catagory. :)
Come on then before I set my heart on their 2000 off peak tariff :(
gt94sss2
01-12-2003, 20:09
Before i switched to the other side i could only check that the local BT exchange was adsl compatable by typing in my postcode This method is only 80-90% accurate (typing a phone number is more accurate) the reply i saw said :
"Good news! The checker indicates that ADSL Broadband is available in your area and that the preliminary check on your postcode suggests that you should be able to receive ADSL Broadband services at speeds from 512kilobits per second to 2Megabits per second downstream and 256kilobits per second upstream"
i guess when typing in a phone number will bring up something different?
Actually the message is almost identical!
Though it is more accurate as they can give you an idea of your own line rather than just a guess based on your postcode.
I guess Bulldog must have a special arrangement with BT as no other adsl isp offer the same service packages.
Other ISP's could offer it if they wanted but Bulldog's business model is a bit different.
In their view they are mainly a "business" ISP - thus they have loads of spare bandwidth and can afford "cheap" off peak tariffs for residentail customers - thats the theory anyway.
Ignition
01-12-2003, 20:11
At a guess some BT exchanges although adsl upgraded can only handle a certain adsl speed (someone will nodoubt correct me if this is incorrect).
Trouble with Bulldog is that your limited to 512k during non peak time wouldnt be so bad if on the 2meg package you were limited to 1meg during peak times during the day and i think someone has already pointed out that you are tied to a 12 month contract (if you look hard enough you can find a 3month and lower contracts) so if you find the service not to your liking then you have a long wait till you can jump ship..
I guess Bulldog must have a special arrangement with BT as no other adsl isp offer the same service packages.
Bulldog offer the package you describe above, PrimeTime 2000, and an AllTime 2000 product, from over 400 enabled exchanges. From 70 or so in Central London they offer services for the home up to 6Mbit/s downstream and 400kbit/s upstream.
A number of ADSL ISPs offer similar 2Mbit services from a number of enabled exchanges using an alternative form of ADSL provisioning called 'DataStream' or Option 3 in BT speak, have a google :p
hehe - consider yourself corrected
All BT ADSL exchanges can cope with the same speeds (as they all have the same equipment fitted) - it just that Bulldog use a different method of backhaul from some of the exchanges to its core network which allows to offer services like its Primetime "time of day" offering at those exchanges
LOL no sir, consider yourself corrected ;)
Not all BT exchanges are equipped equally, they have varying backhaul depending on demand and other factors. Typical backhaul is 4 - 8Mbit for 512k 50:1 users and 10Mbit for 20:1 business users, not sure what is provisioned for 1Mbit users, think they go on the same paths as 512k.
This only applies to IPStream not DataStream, which uses a dedicated ATM link from each exchange onto Bulldog's ATM network, rather than having the data go to BT's LAC (L2TP Access Concentrator) along with the other IPStream ISPs on an exchange and get seperated there to be fed to the individual ISPs.
Bulldog's DataStream links typically vary between 2Mbit and at most 10Mbit, which in some cases works rather poorly, when there are 2 or 3 2Mbit users on an exchange intent on anhialating the 2Mbit VP (Virtual Pipe/Path) and said path only delivers 1.8Mbit of actual usable data speeds get a bit hairy.
That is how Bulldog delivers their alternative services on 450 or so exchanges in the UK.
In the 70 or so (I think) in Central London they actually use all their own kit. People's copper phone lines come in and go to Bulldog's own DSLAM (Digital Subscriber Line Access Multiplexer) - the bit that combines all the incoming ADSL 'calls' into ATM for backhaul, and from their goes down Bulldog's Metronet. As Bulldog have complete control of this apart from the copper itself and the line card at BT they can offer whatever they want on it, DataStream and IPStream are limited by BT to 2048k/256k maximum. Usually LLU (Local Loop Unbundled or BT speak DSL Option 2) exchanges are on 100Mbit LAN Extension lines ;)
And that's it in a nutshell, albeit a large one, hope that helps *phew*
Without having to google once ;) *flex*
gt94sss2
01-12-2003, 20:17
Come on then before I set my heart on their 2000 off peak tariff :(
A few people have problems getting decent speeds (its to do with the way Bulldog do their backhaul) but its exchange specific. (i.e. individual users using a lot more bandwidth then Bulldog thought they would)
As problems appear Bulldog increase capacity from that exchange and resolve them though a few people find their problems don't get fixed and then Bulldog seem to release them from their 12 month contracts.
Personally, as I said I find it excellent value - if you have any Bulldog specific questions - drop me a line just in case we bore everyone else here :)
gt94sss2
01-12-2003, 20:29
Bulldog offer the package you describe above, PrimeTime 2000, and an AllTime 2000 product, from over 400 enabled exchanges. From 70 or so in Central London they offer services for the home up to 6Mbit/s downstream and 400kbit/s upstream.
A number of ADSL ISPs offer similar 2Mbit services from a number of enabled exchanges using an alternative form of ADSL provisioning called 'DataStream' or Option 3 in BT speak, have a google :p
Not all BT exchanges are equipped equally, they have varying backhaul depending on demand and other factors. Typical backhaul is 4 - 8Mbit for 512k 50:1 users and 10Mbit for 20:1 business users, not sure what is provisioned for 1Mbit users, think they go on the same paths as 512k.
This only applies to IPStream not DataStream, which uses a dedicated ATM link from each exchange onto Bulldog's ATM network, rather than having the data go to BT's LAC (L2TP Access Concentrator) along with the other IPStream ISPs on an exchange and get seperated there to be fed to the individual ISPs.
Bulldog's DataStream links typically vary between 2Mbit and at most 10Mbit, which in some cases works rather poorly, when there are 2 or 3 2Mbit users on an exchange intent on anhialating the 2Mbit VP (Virtual Pipe/Path) and said path only delivers 1.8Mbit of actual usable data speeds get a bit hairy.
That is how Bulldog delivers their alternative services on 450 or so exchanges in the UK.
In the 70 or so (I think) in Central London they actually use all their own kit. People's copper phone lines come in and go to Bulldog's own DSLAM (Digital Subscriber Line Access Multiplexer) - the bit that combines all the incoming ADSL 'calls' into ATM for backhaul, and from their goes down Bulldog's Metronet. As Bulldog have complete control of this apart from the copper itself and the line card at BT they can offer whatever they want on it, DataStream and IPStream are limited by BT to 2048k/256k maximum. Usually LLU (Local Loop Unbundled or BT speak DSL Option 2) exchanges are on 100Mbit LAN Extension lines ;)
And that's it in a nutshell, albeit a large one, hope that helps *phew*
Without having to google once ;) *flex*
lol - no need for a google - I used to work a telco (not NTL!)
I was keeping things simple and only talking about BT's own kit at the exchanges using IPStream, not the 35 Bulldog have LLU'ed in Central London or the fact that Bulldog sometimes use BT DataStream (though I did mention that Bulldog use a different form of backhaul as a reference) to operate the the Primetime service
BT IPStream exchanges have "sufficient" backhaul to BT's core network - the amounts differ according to the number of customers buts its more than sufficient
Bulldog uses BT DataStream as you correctly say and that can cause problems sometimes which is why Bulldog increase capicaty etc as I have also stated.
BT DataStream can only go up to 10MB per Virtual Circuit but Bulldog sometimes have more than 1 going to an exchange (they must have quite a few customers on those!) or so I have been reliabilty informed.
On the 35 exchanges which Bulldog have LLU'ed (central London only) a its all their equipment they are now offering up to 8Mb lines...
Hopefully as some of the DataStream exchanges get busier they will LLU them as well.
Easynet are the only other people really doing LLU in abig way (more exchanges than Bulldog) but they are not offering residentail services yet - but they will be next year sometime from what I have been told
DrAwesome
01-12-2003, 20:47
Come on then before I set my heart on their 2000 off peak tariff :(
I have mentioned a few things to look out for before
have a read of the bulldog faqs (PrimeTime 1000/2000 Promotion) (http://www.bulldogdsl.com/residential/faq.asp)
17.(if the service is not what you expected) minimum term period.
18.(i have already mentioned this part in another post it applies to up/downgrading) and it doesnt apply to just bulldog.
and.....
22. Its getting close to xmas so if you havent decided you will have to be quick and the lower subscription price is a End of Year Sale Promotion.
Ignition
01-12-2003, 22:00
lol - no need for a google - I used to work a telco (not NTL!)
Hopefully as some of the DataStream exchanges get busier they will LLU them as well.
Easynet are the only other people really doing LLU in abig way (more exchanges than Bulldog) but they are not offering residentail services yet - but they will be next year sometime from what I have been told
:D
Tricky the extra LLU as Bulldog at the mo only have a Metronet AFAIK.
Yep heard that too, they are taking orders to guage demand for their services on all exchanges, IPStreamed up or not, and this is I think a precursor to offering residential services.
Mmmm 8Mbit/768kbit :romance:
Maybe this thread has highlighted a need for a new forum category?
How about
Alternatives to ntl ?
:D
Sorry, only just got back to this forum - and I agree with you. :D
I have a question maybe someone can answer for me. I had a BT line that I used just for the internet in the old dial up days. I ended up getting rid it though as It always seemed to get a terrible crackle on the line thus making the dial up useless. It didn't happen all the the time but it was quite often and so after at least 10 attempts by engineers to fix the problem ( who always swore it was fixed ) I got rid. Anyway would this noise on the line affect ADSL if I went down that route in the future?
Once you sign up for ADSL with your chosen provider, BT do a check on the line for DSL compatability.
Once you sign up for ADSL with your chosen provider, BT do a check on the line for DSL compatability.
Ahhh but i would have to get the BT line back first, which I wouldn't want if its no good for the ADSL with the noise on the line. Whats the min contract these days for the phone line?
Ahhh but i would have to get the BT line back first, which I wouldn't want if its no good for the ADSL with the noise on the line. Whats the min contract these days for the phone line?
I couldn't see anything on BT's site about a minimum term, so why not ring them on 0808 100 5152 & ask them?
DrAwesome
02-12-2003, 19:36
Ahhh but i would have to get the BT line back first, which I wouldn't want if its no good for the ADSL with the noise on the line. Whats the min contract these days for the phone line?
I dunno weather this would help but BT told me that if any work had to be done on the line after the engineer was checking it you can cancel the installation and not go ahead with the transfer (i guess you must make sure from the start that BT understand why you are switching back to them)
Ahhh but i would have to get the BT line back first, which I wouldn't want if its no good for the ADSL with the noise on the line. Whats the min contract these days for the phone line?
I just rang them, & they said if there's been a BT line in the property before, the minimum term is 3 months, so it's not too bad if the line should fail the DSL test.
HTH.
okay thaks for the help guys, guess I'll just give them a ring and ask them what my options are, if the line is not up to a certain standard i would of thought i could just cancel anyway.
th'engineer
03-12-2003, 09:33
Neil has your online gaming experience improved by using ADSL. I have been getting some serious stick off my Teenager this week. Over lag and bad pings told him the reasons why, but teenagers are not that reasoned.
He said that he was going to his mates who have ADSL from ZEN.
Neil has your online gaming experience improved by using ADSL. I have been getting some serious stick off my Teenager this week. Over lag and bad pings told him the reasons why, but teenagers are not that reasoned.
He said that he was going to his mates who have ADSL from ZEN.
Not that different really TBH m8. My cable pings were always good, but they are slightly lower on ADSL (only about 10/15 ms lower), so no major difference.
The main differences are reliable E-Mail, no proxy/browsing issues, a stable connection to the web, decent customer service, & a company I feel I can trust.
DrAwesome
03-12-2003, 22:33
okay thaks for the help guys, guess I'll just give them a ring and ask them what my options are, if the line is not up to a certain standard i would of thought i could just cancel anyway.
Some ADSL isp's (if you order your adsl hardware direct from them) they wont ship it/charge you for the hardware if the line test says your BT phone line isnt upto the required standard. (If your not sure its always best to ask/if they do send out the hardware and you send it back for a refund you could end up paying a handling charge)
BT usually asks you to contact them 7 days after your line has been re-activated alternativly if you decide to go ahead and contact an ADSL provider the ISP that you have choosen automatically asks BT to test the line before they go any further.
I once took the BAM away from the line and it is possible to talk and surf at the same time but the noise does get on your nerves after awhile.
Neil has your online gaming experience improved by using ADSL. I have been getting some serious stick off my Teenager this week. Over lag and bad pings told him the reasons why, but teenagers are not that reasoned.
He said that he was going to his mates who have ADSL from ZEN.
Mine arent that different either.
Having problems at the mo' with Connection inturuptions during games, but this is down to the USB modem, I think with me still running on USB1.0 :bigcry:
Will be getting a ADSL Router/Modem at crimbo anyway :)
Mine arent that different either.
Having problems at the mo' with Connection inturuptions during games, but this is down to the USB modem, I think with me still running on USB1.0 :bigcry:
Will be getting a ADSL Router/Modem at crimbo anyway :)
Good move Steve. I can recommend the Netgear DG824M. :tu:
DrAwesome
03-12-2003, 23:03
Good move Steve. I can recommend the Netgear DG824M. :tu:
what put me off the DG824M when i read somewhere (i think it was adsl guide) that there is a major bug in ver 1.3 Release 03 it crashes when transfering large files. (obvously it will nodoubt be fixed in the next firmware update)
gt94sss2
04-12-2003, 05:56
Good move Steve. I can recommend the Netgear DG824M. :tu:
The DG824M has just been replaced by the DG834G (new model supports 802.11g as well as 802.11b which the 824 supports)
Not to be confused with the DG834 which replaces the DG814 (both non wireless)
The new 834 series has only started shipping recently so it may be a struggle to find anywhere which has stock - they are selling out very quickly atm
I've taken the plunge, I rang BT today, they are coming to install the new (I say new but it's not :rolleyes: ) line on the 10th, I can't get over how easy it all was. No hassle, no messing around, and so friendly. Cant think why we didn't switch ages ago, oh yer, that bloody 12 month contract :( .
I also rang Bulldog today, what a difference in attitude than Ntl, couldn't help me enough and the guy actually knew what he was talking about :eek:*
so thats me happy, should have bulldog by crimbo, just got to wait until tomorrow and call to cancel my Ntl accounts (that'll be fun :rolleyes: :( )
*no offence to all those excellent CS agents at Ntl that do know what they are on about, but you know what the others there are like (well you work with them so you must :p )
gt94sss2
05-12-2003, 00:10
I've taken the plunge, I rang BT today, they are coming to install the new (I say new but it's not :rolleyes: ) line on the 10th, I can't get over how easy it all was. No hassle, no messing around, and so friendly. Cant think why we didn't switch ages ago, oh yer, that bloody 12 month contract :(
Have sent you a PM re: Bulldog but..
FYI.. you can cancel a BT contract early if you pay a small cancellation charge (max £18) - depending on how long you have left to run on the BT contract
Details 3/4 of the page down on http://www.serviceview.bt.com/list/current/docs/Exch_Lines.boo/00023.htm under Cancellation Charge
If anyone else wants to join Bulldog would they mind quoting my referral code when joining?
Its bdol 87431 - just quote while ordering and send me a message so I can thank you!
I'm afraid you don't get anything but with luck I might :)
gt94sss2
05-12-2003, 01:49
The minimum period for cancelling is 3 months without any charge, when you recieve a letter from BT confirming the change over if you look on the second page under List of your requirements it should say Minimum Period 3 months.. you can confirm this by giving them a call on 0800 521125.
The minimum contract is 3 months if you are reconnecting an existing line.
In Dellwear's case he is technically connecting a "new line" (as BT have never served a customer there before) and on those contracts the minimum term is 12 months but you can cancel early per the url I posted
some added info...
If you want to pay monthly like you used to pay your NTL phone rental you can do so you must tell BT you wish to pay monthly instead of quarterly your first payment is quarterly then there after it will be monthly.
Also if you pay by direct debit the monthly rental is slightly cheaper (£1 or so)
Finally depending on how much you plan to use your BT line ask for details of their standard/basic tariff - its cheaper than their Together ones if you don't use the phone much + comes with a call allowance (they no longer advertise it though - I wonder why :Pumpkin: (joke!))
DrAwesome
05-12-2003, 02:10
Finally depending on how much you plan to use your BT line ask for details of their standard/basic tariff - its cheaper than their Together ones if you don't use the phone much + comes with a call allowance (they no longer advertise it though - I wonder why :Pumpkin: (joke!))
Im on the BT standard line option £9:50 a month inc vat, i asked about the low caller line option BT have (if you make under a certain amount of calls a month BT have a lower caller line rental option) which is even cheaper line rental than the BT standard, as i told them i dont make many calls during the month as its cheaper using my mobile, unfortunatly the lower caller line option is classed as a life line and BT class using ADSL on the line as call usage so the only low cost rental option for ADSL usage is the BT standard line option at £9:50 a month if paid by direct debit but anyone that pays the BT standard line rental gets £1:20 worth of free calls a month so really your paying £8:30 a month rental (provided you pay by direct debit) :)
gt94sss2
05-12-2003, 02:18
Im on the BT standard line option £9:50 a month inc vat, i asked about the low caller line option BT have which is even cheaper line rental, as i told them i dont make many calls during the month as its cheaper using my mobile, unfortunatly the lower caller line option is classed as a life line and BT class using ADSL on the line as call usage so the only low cost rental option for ADSL usage is the BT standard line option at £9:50 a month if paid by direct debit but anyone that pays the BT standard line rental gets £1:20 worth of free calls a month so really your paying £8:30 a month rental (provided you pay by direct debit) :)
BT Standard line rental: £10.50
£1 discount if paying by direct debit - £9.50/month
It includes a £2.15 call allowance (not £1.20)
min effective line rental = 7.35/month
All prices inc VAT etc (lol - I should work for BT - sad knowing all this off the top of my head!)
Sadly you cant get the Low user tariff with adsl as you say.. you are not supposed to have it if you have a mobile or a line from someone else (NTL etc) (though they can't check afaik)
Also you cant use those cheap dial 1xxxx international call companies with that tariff either as BT bar them
the tariff is supposed to be for the "true" low users etc
DrAwesome
05-12-2003, 08:49
BT Standard line rental: £10.50
£1 discount if paying by direct debit - £9.50/month
It includes a £2.15 call allowance (not £1.20)
min effective line rental = 7.35/month
All prices inc VAT etc (lol - I should work for BT - sad knowing all this off the top of my head!)
Sadly you cant get the Low user tariff with adsl as you say.. you are not supposed to have it if you have a mobile or a line from someone else (NTL etc) (though they can't check afaik)
Also you cant use those cheap dial 1xxxx international call companies with that tariff either as BT bar them
the tariff is supposed to be for the "true" low users etc
You have earned your commission this morning :)
etccarmageddon
05-12-2003, 10:29
I'd read the latest problems within the adslguide bulldog forum before ordering... i.e. only order with your eyes open!
just got to wait until tomorrow and call to cancel my Ntl accountsIt doesn't need to be stressful :)
Just write to the address on the bill, send it recorded delivery, and sit back - happy in the knowledge that you don't have to pay a penny to them after the 30 day notice period. If they lose it - tough - then see them in court.
Got BT on the case yesterday to change over my NTL line to BT. 18th December is the earliest time.
Tempted by Bulldog ADSL unless anyone recommends otherwise.
I can recommend Nildram, Zen and Pipex. They're all well up at the top on ADSLGuide.
DrAwesome
05-12-2003, 14:46
Dearest - cheapest :)
You have to way up whats on offer from the adsl providers and depending on how much cash you wanna spend some waver the adsl connection fee some offer adsl modems some give you sweet nothing, also how much is the adsl hardware going to cost you and where is the cheapest place to buy it from (baring in mind not everyone can afford a massive cash outlay especially at this time of year) so whats your choice of adsl hardware do you buy adsl wireless = dearest or choose to stick to ethernet = cheapest or do you avoid usb adsl modems?
(the only stress you might suffer from is going through this thread looking for the information you need)
Its a lot of choice but no real stress because hopefully someone reading this thread can help you make the decission easily.
etccarmageddon
05-12-2003, 14:48
I recommend freeserve because of their 30 day trial offer - if it is a pile of poo you can send it back and get a refund.
DrAwesome
06-12-2003, 11:32
I remember phoning Bulldog to enquire about their Alltime 2000 service (http://www.bulldogdsl.com/residential/products/alltime/alltime.asp) £44.64 a month inc vat, i was told that i couldnt have the service but i could have the Biztime 2000 £68.14 a month inc vat difference being (apart from the monthly price) the Alltime 2000 is only available to 450 BT exchanges and the Biztime 2000 is available Nationally... so this means that if i wanted to signup for Bulldogs PrimeTime 2000 Special Offer - £29.99 (inc VAT) (http://www.bulldogdsl.com/residential/products/PrimeTime/p2000.asp) which was another consideration (from 6pm till 8am everyday, all day in the weekends and bank holidays 2meg and all other times 512k) i cannot because that service is only available across 450 BT exchanges. Primetime 1000 is a no go as well eventhough Alltime 1000 (http://www.bulldogdsl.com/residential/products/alltime/alltime.asp) is available to me if i choose to want it.. :spin:
gt94sss2
06-12-2003, 11:48
Yes, it can be confusing!
Some services are only available at certain (450/500) exchanges -due to the way Bulldog provide the backhaul - while others use the "normal" BT method.
If you want a service and Bulldog don't yet offer it in your area, pre register for it at https://secure.bulldogdsl.com/shop/pre-register.asp (no commitment) as they use that to partly decide where to expand their own network (the other backhaul method etc) too
DrAwesome
06-12-2003, 12:13
Yes, it can be confusing!
Some services are only available at certain (450/500) exchanges -due to the way Bulldog provide the backhaul - while others use the "normal" BT method.
If you want a service and Bulldog don't yet offer it in your area, pre register for it at https://secure.bulldogdsl.com/shop/pre-register.asp (no commitment) as they use that to partly decide where to expand their own network (the other backhaul method etc) too
The confussing part for me was if Bulldog can offer a connection speed for Business (national exchanges) surely they can off you the same connection on home/residential service. it must be they can milk more money from this service from business than offering it to residential customers.
I wonder if you will get anything if everyone who accesses the link and filled in the required information and quoted your referal code in the section Where did you hear about Bulldog? part :)
I can recommend Nildram, Zen and Pipex. They're all well up at the top on ADSLGuide.
Do Nildram still cap their connections?
gt94sss2
06-12-2003, 12:41
The confussing part for me was if Bulldog can offer a connection speed for Business (national exchanges) surely they can off you the same connection on home/residential service. it must be they can milk more money from this service from business than offering it to residential customers.
Its because of the way the traffic goes from the exchange to Bulldog.
BT Wholesale sell something called BT IPStream to ISP's which is available at:
512K and 1MB (50:1 contention) - basically "home" products
512K/1MB/2MB (20:1 contention) - business products etc
These are the ones virtually all ISP's use (24/7 etc) and are available nationally.
Then there is something called BT DataStream which lets the ISP choose what services and contention to offer (hence why Bulldog can offer Primetime and Tiscalli can offer 150K services) - however this is set up per ISP/exchange - hence its limited availability as its more expensive than IPStream below a certain number of users for that ISP per exchange.
As you will see BT IPStream doesn't offer 2MB at 50:1 which is what Alltime 2000 would be etc - while Bulldog can do it via their DataStream exchanges etc - in the same way Bulldog can't offer "time of day"/Primetime products on IPStream either.
However, Alltime 1000 at 50:1 is available on IPStream and hence available nationally (and its 40:1 if you are on a DataStream exchange ss Bulldog control it then)
Whichever service you choose, even the IPStream ones - your contontention ratios are actually a lot less than the quoted figures
I wonder if you will get anything if everyone who accesses the link and filled in the required information and quoted your referal code in the section Where did you hear about Bulldog? part :)
lol - you mean bdol 87431 ?:)
In theory, yes I am supposed to get something - though I have referred a couple of friends in the past and not received anything yet so will have to chase that up at some stage..
Unfortunately, the person joining doesn't get anything but I think thats the way Pipex's scheme worked as well (:
DrAwesome
06-12-2003, 12:53
Do Nildram still cap their connections?
yes their 1meg & 2meg service
dsl1000 (1024Kbps) capped 150GBytes a month. subscription £39.99 a month
dsl2000 (2048Kbps) capped 150GBytes a month. subscription £58.00 a month
dsl500 (512Kbps) No Cap. subscription £26.49 a month
dslSurf500 (512Kbps) No Cap. Subscription £22.99 a month
I did hear a rumour that pipex will be soon intrducing a cap because they are having big problems keeping their news service (binaries) running too many customers leeching.
As far as i can see/read Bulldog doesnt have a cap.
Ignition
06-12-2003, 13:20
I did hear a rumour that pipex will be soon intrducing a cap because they are having big problems keeping their news service (binaries) running too many customers leeching.
*Checks*
Nope all fixed as they promised, best it's been for months, downloading headers and individual posts is maxing this 512k line.
I am impressed though that they keep upgrading it, 6 days retention and full speed of line is astonishing performance for an ISP's news server. Only Telewest that I've seen are as good ;)
EDIT: Applying caps to news server bandwidth and to service usage as a whole are 2 very different things, though I would say that some people use Pipex just because the news servers are good most of the time, and no doubt some do cane the service. Hopefully at some point soon all / most DSL ISPs will start to take notice of those who up or download full pelt 24x7, though it's not happening yet, I know of someone who has been serving MP3s on their DSL line, maxing upload solidly for over 3 years now, no doubt there are thousands more (about 10,000 on dsl going by the law of averages).
ntl customer
06-12-2003, 13:23
yes their 1meg & 2meg service
dsl1000 (1024Kbps) capped 150GBytes a month. subscription £39.99 a month
dsl2000 (2048Kbps) capped 150GBytes a month. subscription £58.00 a month
dsl500 (512Kbps) No Cap. subscription £26.49 a month
dslSurf500 (512Kbps) No Cap. Subscription £22.99 a month
I did hear a rumour that pipex will be soon intrducing a cap because they are having big problems keeping their news service (binaries) running too many customers leeching.
As far as i can see/read Bulldog doesnt have a cap.
I hope that they don't introduce a cap, as I'm now with them ;)
so whats your choice of adsl hardware do you buy adsl wireless = dearest or choose to stick to ethernet = cheapest or do you avoid usb adsl modems
Avoid USB modems at all costs. Go down the ethernet modem route (which is what I did) if you only intend to connect 1 compuer/network device or if you need to connect mutliple computers/network devices then go down the ethernet/wifi router route, depending on what you want.
But avoid USB like the plague! ;)
DrAwesome
06-12-2003, 13:34
I hope that they don't introduce a cap, as I'm now with them ;)
i hope they dont introduce it as i have many friends using the service and it would just crush them if they was a restriction imposed
Avoid USB modems at all costs. Go down the ethernet modem route (which is what I did) if you only intend to connect 1 compuer/network device or if you need to connect mutliple computers/network devices then go down the ethernet/wifi router route, depending on what you want.
But avoid USB like the plague! ;)
so which ethernet adsl modem did you choose and did you have a second choice? The only decent ethernet adsl modem i could find when i did my search was the D-Link DSL-300G+.
Got BT on the case yesterday to change over my NTL line to BT. 18th December is the earliest time.
Tempted by Bulldog ADSL unless anyone recommends otherwise.
I can thoroughly recommend Pipex, they were superb at sign up (mind you-aren't most companies?) They were also very profesional in all my following dealing by phone/email.
The other nice thing, is that when you phone up with a query/fault etc, you will get an email sent to the email address you signed up with, with a ticket number so that you can track the fault-I'd like to see ntl offer something like that!
th'engineer
06-12-2003, 13:49
I can only really think of three large UK ISPs that CAP there customers Virgin, BT and good old NTL.
Even AOL NTLs partner does not CAP .
If you hear of any others contact me at the site in my Sig
themelon
06-12-2003, 21:59
I can only really think of three large UK ISPs that CAP there customers Virgin, BT and good old NTL.
Even AOL NTLs partner does not CAP .
If you hear of any others contact me at the site in my Sig
Unfortunately its a thing we will see more and more of in the future. The UKs networks simply cannot cope with everyone being on Broadband. Without serious investment we will see dial up speeds through a cable modem of ADSL Modem.
For those who make the switch, Final Word of Warning dont get a 'free' USB modem or any USB modem for that matter.....they are ****e pure and simple!! Go for Internal or Ethernet...Or a router is more logical.
Will agree Pipex are a pretty good provider, use them at work. Not many problems the ones we have had are BTs issues with the curcuit, which has had to be replaced 2 times already. BT Connect is utter tripe (BT Openworld for business) we had before.
Personally at home ive been pretty happy with ntls broadband service, for me it has an extra bit of umph! for downloading, its slightly let down by slow uploads, but On our pipex connection we average 56-60k download speeds on ntl I get around 85k on 600k downloading. If its working well its great......I guess if it aint your better switching.
DrAwesome
06-12-2003, 22:58
The UKs networks simply cannot cope with everyone being on Broadband. Without serious investment we will see dial up speeds through a cable modem of ADSL Modem.
Looking at the majority of exchanges the trigger levels are quite high and it looks as if they are filling up fast as prices become more and more competitive i noticed some adsl ip's offering low price or free dialup accounts.
For those who make the switch, Final Word of Warning dont get a 'free' USB modem or any USB modem for that matter.....they are ****e pure and simple!! Go for Internal or Ethernet...Or a router is more logical..
I'm still waiting for someone to suggest a good alround cheap adsl ethernet modem or ethernet modem/router & firewal etc..
Spoilt for choice? here are just some of the adsl modems on offer i found hunting via Google
D-Link DSL-300G+ Ethernet ADSL Modem priced at £68.14 inc vat
Netgear DG834 LAN Starter Kit comes with DG834 ADSL Router, 2 x network cards and 2 x cables priced at £97.51 inc vat
Netgear DG834 on its own priced at £93.99 Inc vat
The info i have read on the DG834 suggests that it is ethernet on the router side but fails to mention weather its a usb or ethernet on the modem side (usually usb modems dont come packaged with a small transformer (external power adapter) so thats a sign that it is a ethernet adsl modem).
SMC SMC7401BRA £76.36 inc vat
Zoom Hayes 5560 X3 £82.24 inc vat
Solwise ADSL Modem/Router (SAR130) £70.44 inc vat
NetGear DM602 ADSL-Modem (ethernet/ usb) from £53-70 depending where you buy this model
Actiontec USB/Ethernet DSL Modem priced around £53-58 depending where you buy it.
Binatone ADSL 2000 High Speed ADSL Router Modem priced at £49.35 inc vat.
Above are just a few ethernet adsl modem.. modem/routers on offer if you choose adsl BB to connect to the internet so many choices which one do you choose?
gt94sss2
07-12-2003, 01:03
Two things..
1. If you don't want to go with Bulldog.. there are several other good ISP's I would consider (in no particular order):
Pipex (as already mentioned)
Plusnet
Zen
Metronet (only if you are a low user <-- may not be relevant to anyone here!)
Nildram
Freedom-2-Surf
NDO
www.aaisp.co.uk (esp if you are a techie)
www.hi-velocity.it (excellent customer service imv)
All depends on what services/price you want to pay but they all have a decent reputation
2. For a cheap ethernet router try the models Ebuyer sell as their own brand. There is a 1 port version (Quickfind code 48448) and a 4 port version (QuickFind code: 48449)
You would think that as they are cheap they would come with no support etc - actually they are Origo routers and come with full UK support, a user forum and firmare updates via http://adsltech.com/ who are their UK distributers - I know several ppl who are using them quite happily
btw DrAwesome: you are right the Netgear DG834 is an ethernet modem :)
DrAwesome
07-12-2003, 10:10
lol - you mean bdol 87431 ?:)
In theory, yes I am supposed to get something - though I have referred a couple of friends in the past and not received anything yet so will have to chase that up at some stage..
Unfortunately, the person joining doesn't get anything but I think thats the way Pipex's scheme worked as well (:
I have registered my interest in a 4mb (my local exchange is only 2meg) connection, probably along time off like maybe 10yrs :cry: lol. I have added bdol 87431(in the in the section Where did you hear about Bulldog? part) so fingers and toes crossed hopefully you might get something.
Nildram <-- v expensive (i think anyway)
www.hi-velocity.it (excellent customer service imv)<--- Powered by Bulldog:)
I think its a 2 horse maybe 3 horse race Bulldog and Pipex the 3rd isp i have heard very little of im hoping to recieve a reply from a few people that have their service, looking around the isp's adsl forums there is always someone complaining that they have had or having problems at one time or another so its a misconseption/no isp is completely free of problems. so if you decide to leave NTL depending on which isp you pick you might go from bad to worse.
Those of you reading and are wondering who is the 3rd isp i will reveal the 3rd name of the adsl isp in a few days (if anyones interested) as the prices are v. competitive (looking at their web page) and also noticed they do have their own customer forum setup aswell just waiting for some feedback on the avarage connection speed service, customer service and faults.
btw DrAwesome: you are right the Netgear DG834 is an ethernet modem :)
thought so each supplyier selling it could give a better discription of the DG834.
themelon
07-12-2003, 11:49
It is possible to have as many problems if not more with ADSL.
At work we have had numerous problems, in fairness mainly with BT and their exchanges. If we could get cable we would probably have that because we are getting rather sick of BT in general, I honestly dont see how they need to rebuild the curcuit twice between us in the exchanged, obviously it was botched the first time. Also it resulted in a crackly hissing line to the present day.....to which BT Insist we try 4 handsets on each extension....around 35!! Then they 'might' consider investigating a clear fault. The CS rep even asked why the line was crackling when we rang..insisted our phone was at fault..yes BT have excellent customer service! NOT. The ADSL line which is seperate doesnt have the crackles!?!
Honestly most companies customer service are a joke after you get past a certain size, the smaller the company the better, the same goes for ISPs.
Think its a matter of luck and dependant on where you live!
If you live in a over subscribed cable area that could be very poor! Undersubscribed your Ok. If you live in an area using 50:1 contention on your connection where all users to your exchange are maxing their connection it can be as fast as a one legged horse, you might as well yank it out and plug in the modem......except that will only run at about 36kbs after you convert you line.nightmare!!
th'engineer
07-12-2003, 12:32
I have to agree think that Cable is good but the cable companies need to keep up.
Online gaming is getting more popular especially with my kids but they keep on whinging about upload.
Its a shame that the upload can not match the ADSL connections at this time.
I know go 1meg to get this is the answer but for the cost my own view is that adsl is for gaming at this time.
I myselfover the coming months are having to weigh up if the answer to the upload problem is to go ADSL.
I must admit have alkways been a supporter of cable, to the point of being very laid back about the problems sometimes. And not a great lover of BT really
themelon
07-12-2003, 13:17
They should do something like a 600k Professional or something for £27 with a quicker upload speed, I for one would definately be interested. I agree the 1Meg doesnt justify the extra 10 quid, when faster upload is the only extra i require at the current time.
Its almost gonna be tempting to have the freedom ADSL Sevice from ntl next year as that will offer quicker upload presumably at similar prices. The only issue is...I dont want 2 telephone lines (1 free with TV) and dont want Sky (previous issues) so looks like i gotta keep the slower uploads.
I may re evaluate the TV situation after the Sky price hikes come in on ntl in March/April. Im not paying 40 quid plus for repeats repeats repeats! Ill just have to by some DVD Rs and record everything I like 1st time round!
th'engineer
07-12-2003, 13:23
They should do something like a 600k Professional or something for £27 with a quicker upload speed, I for one would definately be interested. I agree the 1Meg doesnt justify the extra 10 quid, when faster upload is the only extra i require at the current time.
Its almost gonna be tempting to have the freedom ADSL Sevice from ntl next year as that will offer quicker upload presumably at similar prices. The only issue is...I dont want 2 telephone lines (1 free with TV) and dont want Sky (previous issues) so looks like i gotta keep the slower uploads.
I may re evaluate the TV situation after the Sky price hikes come in on ntl in March/April
I think that is a good idea and me and you agreeing on something must be a good idea:)
gt94sss2
07-12-2003, 14:03
I have registered my interest in a 4mb (my local exchange is only 2meg) connection, probably along time off like maybe 10yrs :cry: lol. I have added bdol 87431(in the in the section Where did you hear about Bulldog? part) so fingers and toes crossed hopefully you might get something..
lol - I won't get anything unless you sign up :)
It may also be worth you registering an interest in Primetime 2000 - its what I did to get it to my exchange.
Alltime/Primetime 2000 use 2MB
The 4MB lines are only available on 35 exchanges in Central London where Bulldog have their own equipment - so you are unlikely to see that kind of speed anywhere apart from the big cities for years..
Also as a side note Hi-Velocity "resell" Bulldog but they also resell various other telco's/ISP's products so are able to offer services in many more exchanges, if not nationally..
Those of you reading and are wondering who is the 3rd isp i will reveal the 3rd name of the adsl isp in a few days (if anyones interested) as the prices are v. competitive (looking at their web page)
Do tell:)
If its Fast 24 though - avoid though
They had a support forum on their web site (well they still do) but due to the number of unhappy ppl they limited it to subscribers only!
poolking
07-12-2003, 14:18
I'm going to persuade my mum to sign up to broadband, apparently her exchange is enabled, just got to get a line test arranged if she agrees.
She's having terrible trouble with her dialup connection, but then again, she's still running Windows 95 on a 14 yr old 500mb HDD that I gave her. :D
I'm going to persuade my mum to sign up to broadband, apparently her exchange is enabled, just got to get a line test arranged if she agrees.
She's having terrible trouble with her dialup connection, but then again, she's still running Windows 95 on a 14 yr old 500mb HDD that I gave her. :D
14 year old? Are you sure?
poolking
07-12-2003, 18:04
14 year old? Are you sure?
Very sure I had the comp for 8 years then gave it to my mum about 6 years ago.
DrAwesome
07-12-2003, 23:09
lol - I won't get anything unless you sign up :)
Im changing ISP again soon (hence the chasing around to see whats on offer) and all the looking/searching around i have done these past few weeks i have half made my mind up. when i have further looked at this other competitive/cheap adsl isp i will have fully made my mind up. I was a bit suprised that alot of adsl isp's dont have customer/technical support on a sunday.
It may also be worth you registering an interest in Primetime 2000 - its what I did to get it to my exchange.
Alltime/Primetime 2000 use 2MB
yup ive already done that.
Also as a side note Hi-Velocity "resell" Bulldog but they also resell various other telco's/ISP's products so are able to offer services in many more exchanges, if not nationally..
I dont really see the logic in that all its doing is spreading the money gathered in/workload and they dont undercut Bulldog price wise.
I have always wondered why cant BT just upgrade the trigger level to number were it will take more than 6 months to exceed instead of adding the exchanges again to a list to be upgraded.
Do tell:)
If its Fast 24 though - avoid though
I will reveal all soon, i will be phoning them up tomorrow to see how long the wait is before i get to speak to customer support and to also see what advice they give me, a few of my friends that have moved/migrated from well known adsl isp's are already using the service they have promissed to send me email on mon/tues so i will have a better idea what the service is like from inside.
plus points are so far its cheap and there is no fee imposed if you switch service tier and theres No Cap :tu:
Its not Fast 24 although Plusnet did look atractive if you wanted a 1meg service at £32.99 a month but i then discovered if you find/decided the service was crap the cancellation fee is a whooping £129.99 out of all the adsl isp's i have reviewed this must be a record, unless anyone can find another isp to top it?
Very sure I had the comp for 8 years then gave it to my mum about 6 years ago.
And i wonder did she donate it to NTL Teeside UBR because it would certainly answer alot of questions at peek times in my area :)
If its Fast 24 though - avoid though
They had a support forum on their web site (well they still do) but due to the number of unhappy ppl they limited it to subscribers only!
Sounds a bit like what Community will-be/would-have-been, where none of the gripes of present ntl customers will/would be visible to potential customers.
Great, we'll end up with a NTL forum with no NTL customers :p
No you won't.I'm happy with what I've got except for the DTV and even that's a minor irritation.
Oh I forgot the exorbitant phone bill I had last month of £3.19.: D
No you won't.I'm happy with what I've got except for the DTV and even that's a minor irritation.
Oh I forgot the exorbitant phone bill I had last month of £3.19.: D
are you sure you wont be the only one here;)
I've just placed an order with pipex so with luck NTL can :kiss: goodbye to my
£75 a month.
pipex= faster service cheaper price :eek: what have I been waiting for :dunce:
I'm going to have a :rudo: :beer: with the money I save.
Chrysalis
12-12-2003, 15:01
I used to have ADSL and had it for 3 years, having since moved to ntl cable (forced to by landlord) I have not really has bandwidth problems but the email is terrible and the dns servers are the same, obviously the dns servers have a big impact on the service making everything perform poorly. Also my tv I feel is below par because ntl are effectively offering a different service depndong on where you live, my area is analogue tv only meaning I am getting a reduced service for the same price.
Ok now onto ADSL
there are a few different types of adsl services, starting with the 2 major ones.
20:1 ipstream adsl (commercial usually but not always the case now, more below)
50:1 ipstream adsl (residental service)
Both these are the standard type of ADSL service available in all ADSL enabled exchanges provided by BT wholesale, the 50:1 service is aimed at residental customers and is cheaper than the 20:1 service, currently the 50:1 service is available at 512kbit and 1mbit (trial). The 20:1 service was originally only for commercial customers with a very high price tag but it has since dropped dramatically allowing some isp's to resell it to residental customers, plusnet and nildram are two that I know off doing this, 20:1 is available at 512kbit,1mbit and 2mbit speeds. All ipstream services have 256kbit upload and are actually contended much lower than advertised by BT wholesale, users on the 50:1 service are yet to have any real contention issues any contention is normally caused by the ISP side of things.
next we have datastream, this is a new type of connection emerged recently and this is probably what caused BT to drop their prices for the 20:1 ipstream service, the difference between ipstream and datastream is that ipstream mixes different isp's customers together on a BT wholesale managed pipe and contends them, whilst datastream is just a pipe used by 1 isp's customers only. Datastream allows the isp to sell services at their own specification speeds, contention ratios etc. but because of the lower amount of customers on the pipe it is more expensive to provide and as such contention is usually much more noticeable on datastream services.
Isp's I know off using datastream are tiscali and bulldog. Datastream isnt available in all exchanges but is available in a lot more exchanges than LLU. Datastream is available in speeds upto 2mbit like 20:1 ipstream.
LLU is another type of adsl when the Isp installs their own equipment in the exchange and has a lot more control over the connection and exchange equipment.
This is allowing them to sell services at very flexible specification eg. 8mbit adsl.
Bulldog and easynet use LLU.
LLU is only available in some london exchanges and is been expanded to some major cities at the moment.
So there you have it this might not be 100% accurate but I hope it answers some questions, generally I wouldn't reccomend datastream I would defenitly go with an Ipstream service but with the drop in price on 20:1 ipstream you can get affordable 2mbit adsl on every exchange.
Very sure I had the comp for 8 years then gave it to my mum about 6 years ago.
I think you're mistaken, sorry, 14 years ago I got a spanking new 486 and 500 meg drives back then were the stuff of fantasies.
MadGamer
13-12-2003, 18:46
You can also get Broadband modems that are PCI slot modems as well. They look much neater and are hidden inside the PC.
Chrysalis
13-12-2003, 20:58
Well I reccomend a speedtouch 510 V4 its very impressive has many functions like dhcp spoof and has a firewall function as well, it also looks cool.
handyman
13-12-2003, 21:31
I think you're mistaken, sorry, 14 years ago I got a spanking new 486 and 500 meg drives back then were the stuff of fantasies.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2003/12/2.gif
well now, my pipex account is working and it wasn't even supposed to be activated until the 22nd.
for the first time since I had ntl 600k broadband I have been able to watch streaming video without a pause while the download catches up, it's a shame it took a pipex adsl account to do it.
LOL goodbye ntl :rofl:
well now, my pipex account is working and it wasn't even supposed to be activated until the 22nd.
for the first time since I had ntl 600k broadband I have been able to watch streaming video without a pause while the download catches up, it's a shame it took a pipex adsl account to do it.
LOL goodbye ntl :rofl:
Welcome to the world of decent surfing speeds/reliable email/ & general all round good customer service.
A wise move Trebor, you won't regret it IMO. :tu:
<snip>
Since others still seem too busy worshiping pipex I will thank you for a very imformative post. :D
DrAwesome
18-12-2003, 18:48
Since others still seem too busy worshiping pipex I will thank you for a very imformative post. :D
As i am in a class of "others" i wish to inform you for the record i for one dont worship Pipex or false idols.
As i am in a class of "others" i wish to inform you for the record i for one dont worship Pipex or false idols.
Me either-I just like to receive a good/stable/reliable product & service, in return for my hard earned cash-something you don't normally get with ntl. :rolleyes:
Me either-I just like to receive a good/stable/reliable product & service, in return for my hard earned cash-something you don't normally get with ntl. :rolleyes:
very true, I also now get double the upload speed and all for a cheaper price :rofl:
It's not pipex worship, it's a message for all NTL users. I never realised how bad NTL were until I stopped using them.
the sad thing is they don't care their service is crap and they don't care people are leaving. so as far as I can see they only have themselves to blame.
very true, I also now get double the upload speed and all for a cheaper price :rofl:
It's not pipex worship, it's a message for all NTL users. I never realised how bad NTL were until I stopped using them.
the sad thing is they don't care their service is crap and they don't care people are leaving. so as far as I can see they only have themselves to blame.
Well said Trebor-you hit the nail right on the head. :tu:
very true, I also now get double the upload speed and all for a cheaper price :rofl:
It's not pipex worship, it's a message for all NTL users. I never realised how bad NTL were until I stopped using them.
the sad thing is they don't care their service is crap and they don't care people are leaving. so as far as I can see they only have themselves to blame.
Sorry, but as one of these users, my service is not crap and I understood from the last report that the number of BB users was increasing, not decreasing ? - Something like 800,000 at the last count I think.
I am well aware that some people get a poor / crap / unacceptable service and that NTL are not the best in the world - I however, do not make the mistake of thinking everyone gets this poor service - many hundreds of thousands seem to be satisfied.
Even if, on any given day, 8000 users have a problem then that is only 1% of the total (in other words 99% are problem free).
Sorry, but as one of these users, my service is not crap and I understood from the last report that the number of BB users was increasing, not decreasing ? - Something like 800,000 at the last count I think.
I am well aware that some people get a poor / crap / unacceptable service and that NTL are not the best in the world - I however, do not make the mistake of thinking everyone gets this poor service - many hundreds of thousands seem to be satisfied.
Even if, on any given day, 8000 users have a problem then that is only 1% of the total (in other words 99% are problem free).
Not necessarily-a lot of people just put up with the service for various reasons, either they are not aware of an alternative, or think it's too difficult, or simply can't be doing with 'the aggro' of switching.
DrAwesome
18-12-2003, 20:27
Sorry, but as one of these users, my service is not crap and I understood from the last report that the number of BB users was increasing, not decreasing ? - Something like 800,000 at the last count I think.
I am well aware that some people get a poor / crap / unacceptable service and that NTL are not the best in the world - I however, do not make the mistake of thinking everyone gets this poor service - many hundreds of thousands seem to be satisfied.
Even if, on any given day, 8000 users have a problem then that is only 1% of the total (in other words 99% are problem free).
I wonder what NTL do with all that money they gather in each month?
Not necessarily-a lot of people just put up with the service for various reasons, either they are not aware of an alternative, or think it's too difficult, or simply can't be doing with 'the aggro' of switching.
Well the only thing we can say for certain is that we don't actually know one way or the other what they think - if they are really satisfied or not.
DrAwesome
18-12-2003, 21:25
We do know what NTL forum customer/members think and thats not speculation
I wonder what NTL do with all that money they gather in each month?
Not plough it back into a network that is creaking under the ever increasing numbers of customers that they are signing up under the pretence that they will get a great BB service, or training for their staff who they put on the phones to deal with customers that don't know the first thing about ntl's products or how to resolve a customer's problem, that's for sure. :rolleyes:
If you reconect to bt can they use the ntl cable going in to the house and existing tel sockets or do they put new cable and phone sockets in :shrug:
dilli-theclaw
18-12-2003, 22:09
If you reconect to bt can they use the ntl cable going in to the house and existing tel sockets or do they put new cable and phone sockets in :shrug:
My BT reconnection consisted of an engineer walking in - moving my phone plug from the ntl socket to the bt socket (Which are next to each other) - he then picked up the phone and dialed his mobile to see if it was all working.
All in all he was there about 3mins.... And for this I waited in all morning :)
The could have just asked me to do it myself. :D
themelon
18-12-2003, 22:11
Not necessarily-a lot of people just put up with the service for various reasons, either they are not aware of an alternative, or think it's too difficult, or simply can't be doing with 'the aggro' of switching.
I dont think the majority of people are that stupid.......
I will always shop around for the best service, and I think the majority of Internet users are pretty clued up on finding what suits them at the best price.
At the end of the day ntl is still the cheapest braodband provider because you dont have to have a telephone line to get it.
IE.
Any ADSL Broadband requires a BT Line at £9.50 (However BT normally force you onto the £11.50 package *in theirs 'your' best interest!)
Then you will require the service provider at £18 +, so were talkin a minimum of 28 quid!
Britain is a cheapskate nation....will close all our factories down and import shoddy crap from abroad. Most people are attracted by cost.
Certain areas of the ntl network have big problems but others are working great.
DrAwesome
19-12-2003, 00:31
A few years ago (depending on which area you live) you didnt have much choice of internet BB but now a few years on prices have come down and people have a much wider choice available to them today, for example if your phone or dtv provider has treated you badly over what ever problems you have to the point that you are fed up you have a choice to move and try a competitor.
if you want to have faster BB connection and your currant provider has no plans in the future to supply it for whatever reason you have the choice to move. if you have suffered a poor connection time after time and have sort help to rectify the problem but with your currant isp the problems just keep returning because your isp wont invest in their network causing over subscription causing misery for you whatever reason you may have you now have a wider choice to move to another supplyier weather it be ADSL to cable or vice versa.
Price wise between isp's its swings and rounderbouts what you save on one you loose on another.
what it boils down to is if your happy with the level of service that you recieve from your provider you stay where you are.
If not you have a choice to move and try someone different and keep moving until you are happy with what you pay for/recieve.
just phoned NTL to cancel all the services (over £80 a month) and they didn't even ask why, let alone try to pursued us to stay. To me it just proves what a poor company they are. when they don't care why their customers are leaving how will they ever improve what they provide.
just phoned NTL to cancel all the services (over £80 a month) and they didn't even ask why, let alone try to pursued us to stay. To me it just proves what a poor company they are. when they don't care why their customers are leaving how will they ever improve what they provide.
That pretty much sums them up. If they really about where they were going wrong, the management would take active steps to find out why people are leaving-[Edit]but that would highlight all the crap management that they have, & show them up for the ar$e covering lamers they really are.
As it is, it's obvious they don't really give a to$$.
Merry Xmas ntl, another one bites the dust. :2up:
Stuartbe
19-12-2003, 13:30
Hi Neil
I have just got of the phone to Pipex.
You were spot on. I actualy spoke to someone who was polite and actualy knew what he was talking about.
I am going to go for the business 1000 service with a fixed IP
Just have to wait one more month for my broadband to expire then its bye bye NTL
:wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:
Hi Neil
I have just got of the phone to Pipex.
You were spot on. I actualy spoke to someone who was polite and actualy knew what he was talking about.
I am going to go for the business 1000 service with a fixed IP
Just have to wait one more month for my broadband to expire then its bye bye NTL
:wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:
Stuare-I never had any doubts that you would receive the sort of service you have described from Pipex.
You won't regret it. :tu:
dropoffpoint
24-12-2003, 20:32
Had tv,phone & broadband - eventually dropping one service at a time as I was fed up with the way certain problems I had were getting resolved i.e Customer service practically claiming I was making up the problems and doing nothing about them until I got help from both of the nthellworld site personnel. End of day:
Walked into dixons, got the freeserve connection box - 5 days later dsl was up and running - simple.
DSL actually seems more responsive when browsing - no time outs or intermittent delays retrieving web pages.
I exercised my consumer choices and walked.
Chrysalis
26-12-2003, 23:48
glad it worked out for you dropoffpoint :) the browser issues with ntl are their dns servers which they refuse to fix, It wouldnt surprise me that ntl rely on lack of adsl availability in certian areas and lack of knowledge from customers to provide them custom.
just phoned NTL to cancel all the services (over £80 a month) and they didn't even ask why, let alone try to pursued us to stay.
Give it a few days and you'll get a letter offering you free TV if you go back and take Talk24, and a few more days and you'll get a letter addressed to the occupier asking them to join Ntl because the previous occupier had it and cancelled recently.
What a joke Ntl are, they couldn't even get that right!
I'm considering cancelling my broadband service as I now have a BT line installed.
What will happen to my ntlworld.com e-mail address? Would I still get access to it if I connect through webmail?
Thanks
I'm considering cancelling my broadband service as I now have a BT line installed.[/b]
Good move-go for it. :tu:
What will happen to my ntlworld.com e-mail address? Would I still get access to it if I connect through webmail?
Thanks
It will just cease to exist unless you convert to a 'Pay as you go' account, & keep it active that way.
HTH.
etccarmageddon
05-01-2004, 10:59
I'm considering cancelling my broadband service as I now have a BT line installed.
Good move-go for it. :tu:
HOLD ON A SEC!
I wouldnt recommend cancelling your NTL account until you have placed your ADSL order and had it confirmed by a proper line test that the line is acceptable.
The broadband availability checker on the BT wont do an actual line test - so if your BT line isnt good enough to handle the ADSL signal you might get your ADSL order rejected. :shocking:
Stuartbe
05-01-2004, 11:14
HOLD ON A SEC!
I wouldnt recommend cancelling your NTL account until you have placed your ADSL order and had it confirmed by a proper line test that the line is acceptable.
The broadband availability checker on the BT wont do an actual line test - so if your BT line isnt good enough to handle the ADSL signal you might get your ADSL order rejected. :shocking:
Good Piont etccarmageddon
Dont cancel your account until a line check has been done. !
Mind you if he rings NTL today I doubt they will cancel it until march :naughty:
I bet the billing system will carry on working corectly though :)
Thanks
No I won't cancel NTL until I have a new service running.
I'm confident I can get a service though as my BT engineer friend installed the line for me, did all the checks and a few other 'tweaks' so I get the best possible service.
If it takes three months to cancel NTL as suggested then I'll downgrade the service until it ends.
DrAwesome
06-01-2004, 12:37
when you give NTL notice that you want to terminate your accounts if after the adsl survey (your not happy with the adsl speed offered) you can cancel the terminition and stay with NTL
I dont think the majority of people are that stupid.......
I will always shop around for the best service, and I think the majority of Internet users are pretty clued up on finding what suits them at the best price.
At the end of the day ntl is still the cheapest braodband provider because you dont have to have a telephone line to get it.
IE.
Any ADSL Broadband requires a BT Line at £9.50 (However BT normally force you onto the £11.50 package *in theirs 'your' best interest!)
Then you will require the service provider at £18 +, so were talkin a minimum of 28 quid!
Britain is a cheapskate nation....will close all our factories down and import shoddy crap from abroad. Most people are attracted by cost.
Certain areas of the ntl network have big problems but others are working great.NTL are not the best-value BB supplier.
Case example.
I have a ntl telephone line, analogue TV, internet, and BT unconnected line (from when I switched to ntl).
So, reconnecting to BT for free, and taking Plus.net £18.99, plus the modem costing £42, I get 500k download, 250k upload.
Staying with ntl, and taking ntl's 150k (172k actual) £17.99, I get 172k download. 64k upload.
So for £1 more (after initial £42 modem cost) from Plus.net, I get 2.9 times the download speed of ntl, 4 times the upload speed of ntl.
Plus.net is undoubtedly the better value-for-money in that price bracket, by about three times ntl.
Probably half of ntl are in a similar position to me. Roughly half have analogue, last I heard, and it's likely that most will have a BT line in place, ready for reconnection.
As customers become aware of the better ADSL value that can be had, you can see that ntl can potentially lose half of their customers.
Chrysalis
16-01-2004, 05:37
I would also agree ntl are not the best value for money, I think the majority of people will want a phone line in their homes anyway, so the anology it doesn't need a phone line would only fit a minority of people, my phone bill on BT was cheaper, ADSL is better value than cable and lastly I would rather have sky digi over ntl analogue any day, the only thing keeping me an ntl customer is my landlord, I think ntl are only keeping a lot of customers becase their cabling is more attractive than a sattelite dish.
Thought we had done that and agreed Sky is better:rolleyes:
I would like to see where this was 'agreed' I have my old sky box and NTL and ntl is a better package in lots of ways
1) Premiership plus only £12 per year (£40+ on $ky)
2) NTL really quick to change packages and effect reduced costs straight away
3) No red dot on sky sports - as a supporter of www.logofreetv.org (http://www.logofreetv.org) that is a big plus for NTL
4) You can customise your own menu to get channels in the order which you want
5) Overalll cheaper for the phone tv BB package so a good choice which works for me
Not to say I would not move. The lack of ability to use 3rd party phone sellers is a pain - and if sky dumped the red dot I could go back
I would like to see where this was 'agreed' I have my old sky box and NTL and ntl is a better package in lots of ways
1) Premiership plus only £12 per year (£40+ on $ky)
2) NTL really quick to change packages and effect reduced costs straight away
3) No red dot on sky sports - as a supporter of www.logofreetv.org (http://www.logofreetv.org) that is a big plus for NTL
4) You can customise your own menu to get channels in the order which you want
5) Overalll cheaper for the phone tv BB package so a good choice which works for me
Not to say I would not move. The lack of ability to use 3rd party phone sellers is a pain - and if sky dumped the red dot I could go back
sky is miles better than ntl
1) I don't watch sport
2)sky package changes are instant (non of this you will have to pay until the end of month)
3) No red dot on sky sports (because I don't watch it)
4) you can customise your on menus (favorites)
5)with sky, bt and adsl I get loads more movie channels and I am saving £6 a month. also the services work, which ntl's never did.
:D sky wins NTL suck :D
Chrysalis
08-02-2004, 17:00
I would like to see where this was 'agreed' I have my old sky box and NTL and ntl is a better package in lots of ways
1) Premiership plus only £12 per year (£40+ on $ky)
2) NTL really quick to change packages and effect reduced costs straight away
3) No red dot on sky sports - as a supporter of www.logofreetv.org (http://www.logofreetv.org) that is a big plus for NTL
4) You can customise your own menu to get channels in the order which you want
5) Overalll cheaper for the phone tv BB package so a good choice which works for me
Not to say I would not move. The lack of ability to use 3rd party phone sellers is a pain - and if sky dumped the red dot I could go back
I assume you not one of the thousands of people stuck in an analogue only area that ntl refuse to upgrade yet charge the same money for, and I disagree on the cheaper part.
I disagree on the cheaper part.
Especialy when you can get a 2Mbit ADSL service for the price of Ntl's 1Mbit :rofl: :rofl:
sky is miles better than ntl
1) I don't watch sport
2)sky package changes are instant (non of this you will have to pay until the end of month)
3) No red dot on sky sports (because I don't watch it)
4) you can customise your on menus (favorites)
5)with sky, bt and adsl I get loads more movie channels and I am saving £6 a month. also the services work, which ntl's never did.
:D sky wins NTL suck :D
1)Sorry but it is with sky you pay to the end of the month if you cancel something- with Ntl it happened straight away
2) 20 favorites and toggle thro' using the blue on sky versus actually organising them in the order you want - you are having a laugh
3) Ok the red dot is most annoying on sky sports- but it infests all $ky output because they are desparate to get you spending £400 pa
4) What 'loads more movie channels'- the same sky movie channels are on Ntl, the same film 4 and its channels and even the same tcm
I cant see how like for like you are saving anything if you have to pay bt's 9.50 line rental which is free with NTL (if you take tv)
As for the services work.. well the box crashes every now and then - but so do all three sky boxes I have had - other than that - you press the button and the red dot free picture emerges
NTL win easily ....for now
1)Sorry but it is with sky you pay to the end of the month if you cancel something- with Ntl it happened straight away
Trouble is, if you dare to change your package you invoke the House elfs and dementors ( to borrow from Harry Potter) who work in accounts. They magic up some devilish computation which is meant to represent the proportion of the mths service you have used/what you need* however much they need to multiply it by to confuse even stephen hawking!
1)Sorry but it is with sky you pay to the end of the month if you cancel something- with Ntl it happened straight away
2) 20 favorites and toggle thro' using the blue on sky versus actually organising them in the order you want - you are having a laugh
3) Ok the red dot is most annoying on sky sports- but it infests all $ky output because they are desparate to get you spending £400 pa
4) What 'loads more movie channels'- the same sky movie channels are on Ntl, the same film 4 and its channels and even the same tcm
I cant see how like for like you are saving anything if you have to pay bt's 9.50 line rental which is free with NTL (if you take tv)
As for the services work.. well the box crashes every now and then - but so do all three sky boxes I have had - other than that - you press the button and the red dot free picture emerges
NTL win easily ....for now
1) LOL you are joking, NTL wanted us to pay for the month after they came and collected the stb. with sky we just rang them and said remove the sports package and they did, it was gone. we spent 6 months trying to get NTL to remove a package. sky win that one no questions. :D
2) don't know about the 20 favorites I have not run out of slots in the personal planner yet.
3) the red dot has not annoyed me yet. where as NTL's red button never worked.
4) movie channels, we now have at least 12 (I ain't counted them all) we didn't have any with NTL except front row pay stuff. the sky tv package have does cost less than we were paying NTL.
when we had ntl tv. phone and broadband the bill was £80 a month when they could get it right, the phone was the only part that always worked as it should.
now got pipex, sky and BT
pipex £24 a month
sky £34 a month
bt £16 a month (payment plan)
total £74 a month, £6 cheaper than NTL and we get a service that works and includes a lot more channels and double the upload of ntl.
I don't care what you say this is my reality, sky win hands down :rofl:
Stuartbe
09-02-2004, 12:14
1) LOL you are joking, NTL wanted us to pay for the month after they came and collected the stb. with sky we just rang them and said remove the sports package and they did, it was gone. we spent 6 months trying to get NTL to remove a package. sky win that one no questions. :D
2) don't know about the 20 favorites I have not run out of slots in the personal planner yet.
3) the red dot has not annoyed me yet. where as NTL's red button never worked.
4) movie channels, we now have at least 12 (I ain't counted them all) we didn't have any with NTL except front row pay stuff. the sky tv package have does cost less than we were paying NTL.
when we had ntl tv. phone and broadband the bill was £80 a month when they could get it right, the phone was the only part that always worked as it should.
now got pipex, sky and BT
pipex £24 a month
sky £34 a month
bt £16 a month (payment plan)
total £74 a month, £6 cheaper than NTL and we get a service that works and includes a lot more channels and double the upload of ntl.
I don't care what you say this is my reality, sky win hands down :rofl:
:tu: And you cant argue with that :D
And there was me thinking that this was a thread about ADSL......;)
orangebird
09-02-2004, 12:44
<snip>
4) movie channels, we now have at least 12 (I ain't counted them all) we didn't have any with NTL except front row pay stuff. the sky tv package have does cost less than we were paying NTL.
Could that've been cos you weren't subscribed to any movie channels?? :confused:
I don't care what you say this is my reality, sky win hands down :rofl:
In your opinion... :)
Ok-not having Sky (yet)-doesn't Sky have A) more exclusive channels that aren't available on cable?, & B) more channels-period?
I know it's a fairly complex business working out which is better value for money, & I've read the PR blurb by both ntl & Sky, & I'm still none the wiser!
*Goes off to put thinking cap on* :walk:
[Edit]-Correct me if I'm wrong here, but if you take the top ntl package of channels (called Family Pack with Sports & Movies), it works out to £47.50 (including your phone line)
If you have the equivalent package from Sky, (called Sky World & Family Pack), you pay £40 per month (without a phone line for which you need to add £9.50 or thereabouts)
So....
Sky dish & BT phone line=£4 9.50 per month for top package (number of channels to be confirmed-"over 101 channels" according to website http://www.sky.com/skycom/article/0,,90050-1081063,00.html?CMP=IL21287 )
Top ntl DTV pack= £47.50 inc phone line (number of channels to be confirmed-ntl's 'Family Pack + Sport & Movies pack' includes ALL the Family Pack channels plus 15 Sky premium channels and 4 Disney channels)
So how many channels in ntl's 'Family Pack'? (as their website is less than clear- http://www.ntlhome.com/ntl_tv/premium.html ) :rolleyes:
So my guess would be that the extra £2.00 per month for Sky takes into account their recent price rise, whereas ntl have yet to announce theirs, plus it looks like you get more channels for the same money anyway.
Worth bearing in mind is that with Sky you get full interactive services (if that interests you), whereas with ntl all the red button does for most people is freeze the STB!), & also the [u]choice[/i] of Sky + (which is the hard disk recorder service that looks very tasty), but with ntl there is no choice.
I have tried to be objective here, but can't help thinking that ntl offer the inferior service for you £ÃÆ ’‚£Ãà¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚£-or am I wrong?
ian@huth
09-02-2004, 13:15
Ok-not having Sky (yet)-doesn't Sky have A) more exclusive channels that aren't available on cable?, & B) more channels-period?
I know it's a fairly complex business working out which is better value for money, & I've read the PR blurb by both ntl & Sky, & I'm still none the wiser!
*Goes off to put thinking cap on* :walk:
Yes on both counts Neil, but the only question regarding channels is which system has the channels that you want? Sky certainly has better interactive than NTL but the red spot can be a nuisance although you can get a red spot zapper to keep getting rid of it. The winner for me with Sky is SKY+ which definately alters the way that you watch TV and once sampled you wouldn't be without it. Yes, it does cost £200 to get it and have it installed (sometimes you may find special offers on this) but you don't get any video recorder for free and have to pay for other parts of your viewing such as the TV.
orangebird
09-02-2004, 13:15
Ok-not having Sky (yet)-doesn't Sky have A) more exclusive channels that aren't available on cable?, & B) more channels-period?
I know it's a fairly complex business working out which is better value for money, & I've read the PR blurb by both ntl & Sky, & I'm still none the wiser!
*Goes off to put thinking cap on* :walk:
There's evem MORE shopping and travel channels on Sky..... :D
There's evem MORE shopping and travel channels on Sky..... :D
Like you need either. ;)
orangebird
09-02-2004, 13:28
Like you need either. ;)
True... :blush:
And there was me thinking that this was a thread about ADSL......;)
it is,pipex adsl is cheaper and better the broadband from ntl
Could that've been cos you weren't subscribed to any movie channels?? :confused:
In your opinion... :)
yes it could be due to the fact we didn't have movie channels from NTL (they're to expensive) with sky we now get loads of movie channels for less money than we were paying NTL for non :rofl:
yes it is my opinion, it also happens to be true :D
the extra £2.00 per month for SkyActually having proper interactive features makes up for this £2 fee. I would pay £2 extra just for having a fast and unannoying EPG to browse through. ntl's EPG is just crap; you can't cancel a reminder, it is slow as hell, press the red button and the box locks up for about 60 seconds or something, there is no iDTV content, the program guide is empty when browsing half the time, the EPG does not update the programme information (I frequently see 6 o'clock news on at 10pm at night), the static content there is is painfully slow and ugly, there is no facility to browse through the channels in a timetable like Sky, getting a full channel listing on ntl takes about 5 minutes, etc etc. The ntl DTV service is a joke, so the £2 seems negligable.
Not to mention ntl force you have a phone line when you may not want one.
</rant>
But how much better value for money will Sky seem when ntl raise their prices too, & they are asking the same money for a clearly inferior product? :erm:
orangebird
09-02-2004, 15:30
<snip>you can't cancel a reminder<snip>
Yes you can! ...:erm:
On Sky, I hate the fact that you have to go out of the program you're watching and into the programme menu to get info on shows other than the one currently being broadcast.....
orangebird
09-02-2004, 15:31
it is,pipex adsl is cheaper and better the broadband from ntl
yes it could be due to the fact we didn't have movie channels from NTL (they're to expensive) with sky we now get loads of movie channels for less money than we were paying NTL for non :rofl:
And are you getting all these Sky movie channels for free? Or are you paying for them? :rolleyes:
And are you getting all these Sky movie channels for free? Or are you paying for them? :rolleyes:
errr :confused: no, we are getting all these movie channels plus all the stuff we use to have on NTL and whole lot more for less money than we used to pay NTL. is it so hard to come to terms with the fact that NTL are ripping people off
:zzz: :zzz: :zzz:
orangebird
09-02-2004, 15:56
errr :confused: no, we are getting all these movie channels plus all the stuff we use to have on NTL and whole lot more for less money than we used to pay NTL. is it so hard to come to terms with the fact that NTL are ripping people off
:zzz: :zzz: :zzz:
No, just having abit of trouble deciphering the twaddle you're posting :)
You saying you didn't get any movies with ntl, but you do with sky so it's better value. But, you didn't pay for any movies with ntl, and you are with sky... :confused:.... :rolleyes:
ian@huth
09-02-2004, 16:08
errr :confused: no, we are getting all these movie channels plus all the stuff we use to have on NTL and whole lot more for less money than we used to pay NTL. is it so hard to come to terms with the fact that NTL are ripping people off
:zzz: :zzz: :zzz:
I am rather confused at this because by and large NTL and Sky usually have similar packages for the same price. The basic difference is that NTL insist on you having a telephone line with the TV package and charge £9.50 for this in the package charge. The telephone line is not free as some like to make out. Sky do have more channels in their packages, but not more premium channels. NTL are a ripoff in the telephone charges, mainly due to the 5p connection charge unlike BT which has a 5p minimum charge and other providers who have a lower connection charge or minimum charge. NTL for the moment are £2 cheaper on the TV packages as they have not as yet implemented the price increase that Sky introduced at the start of January.
Yes you can! ...:erm:
Hmm I must look for that feature!! :o
On Sky, I hate the fact that you have to go out of the program you're watching and into the programme menu to get info on shows other than the one currently being broadcast.....I must agree with you on that point, as that is the one annoying thing about Sky after having used ntl. But you soon get used to it, and because the Sky EPG is so quick it doesn't really matter. I'd much rather have Sky with this one minor annoyance than ntl DTV with many major problems. The ntl broadband is on the whole quite good, but then again I don't bother using the ntlworld e-mail. If only the TV was as good as the broadband. And the customer service...has even further to go than the TV.
mainly due to the 5p connection charge unlike BT which has a 5p minimum chargeDon't quite understnad that, but the point I wanted to make about BT phone lines is quite important anyway. With a BT line you can choose which telco you want to use using CPS, which negates any costs of expensive phone calls. If you combine Sky Digital with a BT line and a carrier such as Onetel or Equitalk then the benefits are even clearer.
Don't quite understnad that, but the point I wanted to make about BT phone lines is quite important anyway. With a BT line you can choose which telco you want to use using CPS, which negates any costs of expensive phone calls. If you combine Sky Digital with a BT line and a carrier such as Onetel or Equitalk then the benefits are even clearer.
Which is exactly the point I was making earlier. ;)
It's about giving the customer a choice, not telling them that they have to have an ntl phone lline with their cable TV packages-that's just rude & pretty much sums up ntl's attitude towards it's customers.
It comes down to choice & flexibility-what choice is there with Sky/BT (lots) & what choice is there with ntl? (very very little)
Do I hear the beginnings of a ntl customer education program? :D
We should start printing flyers off and do letter drops with this basic information.
etccarmageddon
09-02-2004, 18:31
as this is an ADSL thread, just as NTL force you to have a crappy phone line for their TV service.... perhaps I should point out that BT force you to have a phone line if you want ADSL but with NTL you have can have broadband without a phone line.
that's an area where NTL have an advantage. the people who want Broadband but dont want a home phone line.
I agree about the TV service but am shocked and disgusted :pp that this ADSL thread should be taken off topic to talk about NTL's crap TV service.
as this is an ADSL thread, just as NTL force you to have a crappy phone line for their TV service.... perhaps I should point out that BT force you to have a phone line if you want ADSL but with NTL you have can have broadband without a phone line.
that's an area where NTL have an advantage. the people who want Broadband but dont want a home phone line.
I agree about the TV service but am shocked and disgusted :pp that this ADSL thread should be taken off topic to talk about NTL's crap TV service.
You're right on both counts 'Etc', but with regards to ntl not forcing you to have a phone line with any of the BB packages (150k/600k/1 meg)-why do they force you to take it when you sign up for DTV??
Yet more left hand/right hand dross from the marketing monkies at ntl. :rolleyes:
ian@huth
09-02-2004, 18:54
as this is an ADSL thread, just as NTL force you to have a crappy phone line for their TV service.... perhaps I should point out that BT force you to have a phone line if you want ADSL but with NTL you have can have broadband without a phone line.
that's an area where NTL have an advantage. the people who want Broadband but dont want a home phone line.
I agree about the TV service but am shocked and disgusted :pp that this ADSL thread should be taken off topic to talk about NTL's crap TV service.
LOL, xDSL uses the phone line to transmit data so you could hardly expect to have XDSL without a phone line.
LOL, xDSL uses the phone line to transmit data so you could hardly expect to have XDSL without a phone line.
Do Sky force you to have a Sky telephone line with their DTV product? (no)
Do ntl force you to have an ntl telephone line with their DTV product? (yes)
Simple-as I said earlier, it all comes down to choice-or in ntl's case, lack of it.
No, just having abit of trouble deciphering the twaddle you're posting :)
You saying you didn't get any movies with ntl, but you do with sky so it's better value. But, you didn't pay for any movies with ntl, and you are with sky... :confused:.... :rolleyes:
ok I give up, you win, NTL are better value than sky. :wavey:
etccarmageddon
09-02-2004, 21:23
LOL, xDSL uses the phone line to transmit data so you could hardly expect to have XDSL without a phone line.
ah yes but BT could supply a 'dead' phone line for those people who want ADSL without the phone service - if they wanted to.
Chrysalis
09-02-2004, 22:54
(my case)
1 - value for money
ntl analogue area, so paying 11.99 for phone line and basic channels, 9.50 for line rental on bt meaning I am paying 2.49 for channels that I rarely watch (this is analogue doesnt even come close to freeview), already 2.49 down. internet costs, I am paying 24.99 for 600kbit download and 128kbit upload, for the same price on ADSL I can have 512kbit download and 256kbit upload and a static ip address. lastly there is the 5p connection charge issue as well. Bt+sky win here
2 - customer service
ntl lack of service on sundays ****es me off truly, bt and sky and adsl isp service 24/7. Bt+sky win here
3 - choice
ntl have forced me to be only to pick from analogue tv options, whilst sky digital is available more or less everywhere, adsl has choice from dozens of providers and various different packages, obviously if closer to exchange limited to max 512kbit download but still the choice of providers. Bt+sky win here
take into account those people who dont even have digital, not only is sky superior against ntl digital but it wins hands down on ntl analogue.
also how much does the max tv package cost on ntl analogue anyone know? thanks.
ian@huth
09-02-2004, 23:27
ah yes but BT could supply a 'dead' phone line for those people who want ADSL without the phone service - if they wanted to.
It would still cost BT money to supply a "dead" phone line so they are hardly going to supply and maintain this for free. The phone line would have to be live in order to use it for xDSL and you probably wouldn't choose BT to supply the xDSL service. BT (and NTL) charge £9.50 for the phone line rental so if you want xDSL you would have to pay for the line.
Let's be honest & realistic here-how many people don't have a live working landline phone in their house??
I would say very few, so at the end of the day the vast majority off peeps will be better off without ntl as they are paying for a phone line anyway, so it may as well be a BT one (with caller I.D), with a nice reliable DSL package from a proper ISP that puts it's customers first, than with ntl who clearly don't give a to$$ about their customers, & who know that the only way to get customers to take their inferior phone line, is to force it upon people. :rolleyes:
Another nice piece of marketing ntl. :dozey:
etccarmageddon
10-02-2004, 08:14
It would still cost BT money to supply a "dead" phone line so they are hardly going to supply and maintain this for free. The phone line would have to be live in order to use it for xDSL and you probably wouldn't choose BT to supply the xDSL service. BT (and NTL) charge £9.50 for the phone line rental so if you want xDSL you would have to pay for the line.
as a 'dead' phone line it's just a cable for your ADSL modem to connect you to the exchange. this should be covered in your monthly ADSL charge just as NTL supply a coax cable which connects your modem to your local UBR which is also absorbed into the cost of your monthly NTL broadband charge.
....you probably wouldn't choose BT to supply the xDSL service...
even if you get ADSL from an independent supplier, BT still get a slice of the money you pay the supplier for ADSL. except in LLU.
DrAwesome
10-02-2004, 08:28
The standard BT line rental is £9.50 (paid by direct debit) - £2.15 monthly off peak call allowance (http://www.bt.com/btcom_redirectLink.jsp?action=redirectLink&targetLinkID=PIS_BT_Together_And_Prices_Comparison _Chart&vStore=1314&obsPage=%2fPricing%2fpis_summary.jsp%3fshowsub%3dP IS_Residential&obsOID=30163&obsType=LINK&BV_SessionID=@@@@0596769680.1076401205@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccciadckjhddlhmcflgcefkdffndfkk.0) which means the line rental is cheaper than NTL's standard line rental because a BT standard line customer only pays £7.45.
Also not forgeting as a BT customer you can get BT Answer 1571 free messaging service
The standard BT line rental is £9.50 (paid by direct debit) - £2.15 monthly off peak call allowance (http://www.bt.com/btcom_redirectLink.jsp?action=redirectLink&targetLinkID=PIS_BT_Together_And_Prices_Comparison _Chart&vStore=1314&obsPage=%2fPricing%2fpis_summary.jsp%3fshowsub%3dP IS_Residential&obsOID=30163&obsType=LINK&BV_SessionID=@@@@0596769680.1076401205@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccciadckjhddlhmcflgcefkdffndfkk.0) which means the line rental is cheaper than NTL's standard line rental because a BT standard line customer only pays £7.45.
Also not forgeting as a BT customer you can get BT Answer 1571 free messaging service
And not forgetting the elusive (to ntl anyway) Caller I.D-I now have it on my BT phone line, & I must say I think it's a superb tool. :tu:
orangebird
10-02-2004, 10:24
Neil. you're starting to sound increasingly bitter... the phone line, bb and dtv was good enough when you got it for cheap, wasn't it? :(
Neil. you're starting to sound increasingly bitter... the phone line, bb and dtv was good enough when you got it for cheap, wasn't it? :(
OB-:waving:
Phone line was fine (didn't really use it-as you know as it was cheaper for me to use my mobile)
BB was fine for me (have always said do) 3 outages in 3 years is 'A OK' in my book. :tu:
DTV was poor. Poor quality picture/engineers that couldn't fix it/red button that locked the box if I even thought about pressing it/poor program guide.
So 2 out of 3 isn't bad I suppose, but the main issue (as I have always said) was (for me, & I suspect a lot of other people) is that when I pick up the phone to speak to someone at ntl (& you were with me on a number of occaisions when this happened), is that I am greeted some idiot who tries to fob me off with his/her lame BS, because he/she finds it easier to BS a customer than to find out the real facts.
Also-I had already made plans to ditch my subsidised packaged from ntl, & (as I publicly stated on .com)-"I would rather have a decent service that I pay for, than a pi$$ poor one that I don't"
N. :kiss:
orangebird
10-02-2004, 11:45
OB-:waving:
Phone line was fine (didn't really use it-as you know as it was cheaper for me to use my mobile)
BB was fine for me (have always said do) 3 outages in 3 years is 'A OK' in my book. :tu:
DTV was poor. Poor quality picture/engineers that couldn't fix it/red button that locked the box if I even thought about pressing it/poor program guide.
So 2 out of 3 isn't bad I suppose, but the main issue (as I have always said) was (for me, & I suspect a lot of other people) is that when I pick up the phone to speak to someone at ntl (& you were with me on a number of occaisions when this happened), is that I am greeted some idiot who tries to fob me off with his/her lame BS, because he/she finds it easier to BS a customer than to find out the real facts.
Also-I had already made plans to ditch my subsidised packaged from ntl, & (as I publicly stated on .com)-"I would rather have a decent service that I pay for, than a pi$$ poor one that I don't"
N. :kiss:
Fair enough! :) :kiss:
Yes on both counts Neil, but the only question regarding channels is which system has the channels that you want? Sky certainly has better interactive than NTL but the red spot can be a nuisance although you can get a red spot zapper to keep getting rid of it. The winner for me with Sky is SKY+ which definately alters the way that you watch TV and once sampled you wouldn't be without it. Yes, it does cost £200 to get it and have it installed (sometimes you may find special offers on this) but you don't get any video recorder for free and have to pay for other parts of your viewing such as the TV.
Neils post is right (as was mine) For top package $ky+bt is dearer than NTL digital, with more or less the same channels but without the nuisance of the red dot. Add in prem plus at only £12 a year Ntl is miles ahead if you like footy (ie the reason 90% of folk subscribe).
I am curious why people go for the $ky+ box tho'. It involves investing in seriously closed technology which only works with $ky, more and more DVD R and hard disk machines are on the market - and it is quite likely that a WIFI solution to connect your telly to your PC could be economic soon.(recording and playing from your hard drive configured your way- not Ruperts little lads way) in truth I don't record enough to justify $ky + and think there will be better open source options in the future
ian@huth
10-02-2004, 21:29
Neils post is right (as was mine) For top package $ky+bt is dearer than NTL digital, with more or less the same channels but without the nuisance of the red dot. Add in prem plus at only £12 a year Ntl is miles ahead if you like footy (ie the reason 90% of folk subscribe).
I am curious why people go for the $ky+ box tho'. It involves investing in seriously closed technology which only works with $ky, more and more DVD R and hard disk machines are on the market - and it is quite likely that a WIFI solution to connect your telly to your PC could be economic soon.(recording and playing from your hard drive configured your way- not Ruperts little lads way) in truth I don't record enough to justify $ky + and think there will be better open source options in the future
Yes, at the moment NTL digital and phoneline is £2 dearer than Sky and BT for top package but no doubt NTL will raise their price to match in the next couple of months. Sky do have more channels in that top package than NTL but that is only important if you want to watch the extra channels. The one thing to note however is that when you add in the cost of telephone calls the Sky / BT package can work out cheaper depending on your calling pattern and call provider.
NTL are definately cheaper than Sky for the Premiership Plus package but your idea that 90% subscribe because of this is nonsensical. I had Premiership Plus when with NTL but have dropped this with Sky as it isn't that important to me at more than £1 a month.
You have to have used Sky+ for a couple of days to realise the potential of it and then you wouldn't be without it. It only costs £200 to have it and get it installed which isn't that much when you consider what most people spend on Audio Visual equipment. It is so easy to use and recordings are of the same standard as the original broadcast signal due to the way the signal is stored and replayed. With features like dual recording, live pause and instant rewing you have plenty of control and can even decide to record a programme that you are watching up to an hour after it has started and the recording is the whole programme from the start. What other system allows you to do that? Sky+ isn't just about recording though, it completely alters the way you watch TV and when you watch it. The other advantage of having Sky+ is that the mirror subscription for my second box only costs £10, unlike a second box with NTL that costs £15.
I had Sky installed yesterday with a second box.
Would have loved Sky+ but the earliest install is the end of March!!!!! cant wait that long so I'll slum it.
Let's be honest & realistic here-.......
.
.
.
the only way to get customers to take their inferior phone line, is to force it upon people. :rolleyes:
and how are all NTL lines inferior to all BT lines ?
and how are all NTL lines inferior to all BT lines ?
On my experience of two weeks,
CLI
1571
on-line billing info
on-line service changes that happen almost immediately
oh and they sound better and are cheaper and mean you dont have to deal with ntl
ok so i got carried away, they sound the same but the rest is true
etccarmageddon
11-02-2004, 18:34
and how are all NTL lines inferior to all BT lines ?
on line account management including friends and family changing
caller display
ability to sign up to a cheap 3rd party such as talktalk for cheapo calls
Chrysalis
12-02-2004, 00:18
I dont blame neil for saying ntl was ok when he had it cheap, money talks and when you pay less for a service then what you expect of it drops.
All the people defending ntl still havent mentioned how poor value the analogue service is, that hussein guy still in charge who obviously has no clue how the internet works, the fact they have traffic limits in their AUP which they can start enforcing any time they like and when they do start enforcing them believe me ntl certianly will be no comparison to bt.
carlingman
12-02-2004, 00:30
I dont blame neil for saying ntl was ok when he had it cheap, money talks and when you pay less for a service then what you expect of it drops.
All the people defending ntl still havent mentioned how poor value the analogue service is, that hussein guy still in charge who obviously has no clue how the internet works, the fact they have traffic limits in their AUP which they can start enforcing any time they like and when they do start enforcing them believe me ntl certianly will be no comparison to bt.
Cough I think you will find Neil was hacked off with NTLs services and moved to a provider he didnt mind paying for that offered a reliable service.
I believe Hussein is still in charge but from day one as you say he never had a clue and was somewhat carried along.
Similar story goes with Ash and co who were carried along by Frank.
The main problem with NTL is the rot starts at the top.
:)
You have to have used Sky+ for a couple of days to realise the potential of it and then you wouldn't be without it. It only costs £200 to have it and get it installed which isn't that much when you consider what most people spend on Audio Visual equipment. It is so easy to use and recordings are of the same standard as the original broadcast signal due to the way the signal is stored and replayed. With features like dual recording, live pause and instant rewing you have plenty of control and can even decide to record a programme that you are watching up to an hour after it has started and the recording is the whole programme from the start. What other system allows you to do that? Sky+ isn't just about recording though, it completely alters the way you watch TV and when you watch it. The other advantage of having Sky+ is that the mirror subscription for my second box only costs £10, unlike a second box with NTL that costs £15.
mmmmm- not sure how $ky+ will change the way you watch tv. Sit down- look at screen - thats it
You have ignored the mainpoint. Yes hard disk, pause live tv etc is very nice- but why pick the version which only works with $ky ?
Say in 2 years $ky lose the key contract (footy film simpson etc ) which make you want to pay them - you unsubscribe - and have a £200 doorstop+ or keep paying them even though their offer may not be what you want.
I believe open source versions will work with Ntl or indeed motorised sat, providing many more options, probably based on your pc
DrAwesome
13-02-2004, 13:42
mmmmm- not sure how $ky+ will change the way you watch tv. Sit down- look at screen - thats it
you missed the obvous you can fast forward through the adverts after you have copied a tv programme.
also
If you have missed something on a tv programme you are watching you can rewind a programme back upto 1hr watch the part you missed then fast forward to the part where you rewinded from & sky+ always tells you just how far you are from to catch up (which is usually while the adverts are running) :)
:eek: I will have to rewind these posts in this thread to find out how the h3ll this thread got from Want ADSL?-Read on.... to the topic of sky+
ian@huth
13-02-2004, 15:13
mmmmm- not sure how $ky+ will change the way you watch tv. Sit down- look at screen - thats it
You have ignored the mainpoint. Yes hard disk, pause live tv etc is very nice- but why pick the version which only works with $ky ?
Say in 2 years $ky lose the key contract (footy film simpson etc ) which make you want to pay them - you unsubscribe - and have a £200 doorstop+ or keep paying them even though their offer may not be what you want.
I believe open source versions will work with Ntl or indeed motorised sat, providing many more options, probably based on your pc
Can anyone in their right mind see anyone else getting "key" contracts and putting them on a channel that Sky does not carry?
One way that Sky+ alters the way that you watch TV is that you can set a programme such as a Formula One race to record because you cannot get to watch it live as you are arriving home ten minutes after it is due to start. Using conventional recorders you would have to wait until the race ended before being able to watch it from the start. With Sky+ you can immediately watch it from the start in its entirety, rewind it if there is some action you want to see replayed and then continue watching to the end skipping advertising breaks at 30X normal speed whilst being able to see a picture instead of noise bars.
Can anyone in their right mind see anyone else getting "key" contracts and putting them on a channel that Sky does not carry?
One way that Sky+ alters the way that you watch TV is that you can set a programme such as a Formula One race to record because you cannot get to watch it live as you are arriving home ten minutes after it is due to start. Using conventional recorders you would have to wait until the race ended before being able to watch it from the start. With Sky+ you can immediately watch it from the start in its entirety, rewind it if there is some action you want to see replayed and then continue watching to the end skipping advertising breaks at 30X normal speed whilst being able to see a picture instead of noise bars.
That may well be an advantage --- and other systems either in a silver box under your telly, or by configuring your PC and connecting it to your telly, will or can do the same. But will do it with any system whatever happens to TV in the future. The $ky+ box will only do what Ruperts little lad tells it to do- If the best subscription option is not sky you will be stuffed- with $ky + or any other platform specific system- do ya get my point now ?
etccarmageddon
15-02-2004, 11:16
That may well be an advantage --- and other systems either in a silver box under your telly, or by configuring your PC and connecting it to your telly, will or can do the same. But will do it with any system whatever happens to TV in the future. The $ky+ box will only do what Ruperts little lad tells it to do- If the best subscription option is not sky you will be stuffed- with $ky + or any other platform specific system- do ya get my point now ?
I think you'll struggle to find a box that will match the sky + dual recording feature - I cant see anything coming out that will match that on satellite.
it requires to feeds from the dish - something sky have to install.
If the best subscription option is not sky you will be stuffed- with $ky + or any other platform specific system- do ya get my point now
the only alternative subscription service is NTL - when a box comes out for NTL's service, if it has the SKY plus dual record features, it will also be useless on other platforms.
when you get sky + you have 30 days to try it and you can cancel and get a full refund - I suggest you try it for 30 days and then tell us what you think.
I think you'll struggle to find a box that will match the sky + dual recording feature - I cant see anything coming out that will match that on satellite.
it requires to feeds from the dish - something sky have to install.
the only alternative subscription service is NTL - when a box comes out for NTL's service, if it has the SKY plus dual record features, it will also be useless on other platforms.
when you get sky + you have 30 days to try it and you can cancel and get a full refund - I suggest you try it for 30 days and then tell us what you think.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I think I have proved my inital point that it is agreed sky beats ntl- it clearly does not in digital areas.
As to $ky + I can't understand how its worth it. But yer pays yer money ......
Thanks for the info on Pipex,Nildram and Zen I might get one of them Nildram and Zen look really good. NTL has ****ed me off in the last few days, I think they upgraded my bill to 600k and my modem is still on 150k after i restarted soo many times.
I think I am also going to go for Pipex, main reaosn been For like £17.57, it gives you a modem, 2 micro-filters, and activation fee, thats all about £130 with NTL i only paid abotu £30 for the guy to come and install the cable in my room. They had installed the NTL cable into the building I live in, so i got BT no need to transfer my telephone company. lol. Thanks for the advice
DeadKenny
08-09-2004, 17:33
Posted this in this (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=17108&page=1&pp=15) thread, but that was a bit off topic, so I'll post it here instead ;)...
Basically to summarise, I'm thinking of kicking NTL out the window and going with ASDL. Currently have NTL phone and Cable Modem. A few questions though...
In regards to porting the number, would I get a number initially from BT, then if the line is installed okay, I tell NTL I want to cancel and tell BT I want to port the number?
Slightly worrying though the mention that some numbers are not 'portable'. Any way of finding out if your number is one of those? I don't really want to lose the number at the moment (though I could resort to paying both NTL and BT line rentals and use BT just for ADSL. I could still probably get ADSL cheap enough to make it equivalent to what I'm paying at the moment).
The main issue though is finding an ADSL provider that don't have transparent proxies, don't block any ports, allow you to run servers without restriction (email and web especially), don't have a download cap, don't use a premium-rate support line, and don't make you wait 40 minutes and cut you off when you do call support.
I've had PlusNet recommended to me... 2Mbps for £39 a month, 1Mbps for £29.99 a month. NTL... wake up and smell the real world :p:
I'll also need to get a plain Ethernet ADSL modem (no need for a router as I've got one), but I've got my eye on one that's fairly cheap.
The possible screw up on all of this is BT saying my line is too crap for ADSL. At least if they say I can only have 512kbps I will get 256kbps upstream which is mainly what I want.
In regards to porting the number, would I get a number initially from BT, then if the line is installed okay, I tell NTL I want to cancel and tell BT I want to port the number?
What happens is that you ring BT, book the phone line install (probably free as you are reconnecting) and tell them you want to port your number. They take your current number and account number and give you a date (normally 7 working days). That's it, they come when they say they will, they install the line, and if you give it 24 hours you'll be able to enter your current number into the number checker on the site of your chosen ISP and then order it.
Thats how it all worked for me anyway, I'm now with Bulldog, they are great, a plain net connection, no proxies, no caps, no blocked ports, and they tec/cust services answer the phone fairly quickly. They also have a geographical number for their tec support so you don't have to pay 0870 prices.
Everything you could ask for in an ISP. :)
www.bulldogdsl.com
0870 BULLDOG (285 5364)
DeadKenny
08-09-2004, 21:02
What happens is that you ring BT, book the phone line install (probably free as you are reconnecting) and tell them you want to port your number. They take your current number and account number and give you a date (normally 7 working days).
What about giving NTL notice? i.e. surely if I ring BT now and say I want a new line and the number ported, NTL are going to tell them to get stuffed as far as the number is concerned?
Or does the number get ported and the NTL line converts to some other number until it's cancelled?
What about giving NTL notice? i.e. surely if I ring BT now and say I want a new line and the number ported, NTL are going to tell them to get stuffed as far as the number is concerned?
Or does the number get ported and the NTL line converts to some other number until it's cancelled?
BT do it all for you (OFCOM rules AFAIK)
DeadKenny
10-09-2004, 13:51
Okay, BT line is booked, though they can't do it until 1st October.
Slight problem, they don't believe there's ever been a BT line there, even though there's a BT socket in the house. Hmm, exactly what NTL said when I got hooked up with them :suspect:.
I'm 99% certain the person there before me had BT as when I moved in I got NTL put in (the NTL cable was up to the house but not to my flat), and so there was only a BT socket at the time. It says 'BT' on it and unless the person before had been living there for 9 years without ever having activated it, it must have been BT.
So anyway, they're charging me £75 :(
Porting the number was easy, although they've said I'll never be able to use Call Minder, 1471 or Call Return with a ported number. Still, at least I get get Caller Display and know it'll work with my phone which is more than can be said for NTL.
Okay, BT line is booked, though they can't do it until 1st October.
That's only a couple of weeks away. :)
Slight problem, they don't believe there's ever been a BT line there, even though there's a BT socket in the house. Hmm, exactly what NTL said when I got hooked up with them :suspect:.
If there's a BT socket in the house, then BT installed it at some stage.
[QUOTE=DeadKenny]I'm 99% certain the person there before me had BT as when I moved in I got NTL put in (the NTL cable was up to the house but not to my flat), and so there was only a BT socket at the time. It says 'BT' on it and unless the person before had been living there for 9 years without ever having activated it, it must have been BT.
So anyway, they're charging me £75 :(
I am certain that you don't have to pay this, & the fact that you have a BT socket in the house supports the fact that it is a reconnection (which is free)
Porting the number was easy, although they've said I'll never be able to use Call Minder, 1471 or Call Return with a ported number. Still, at least I get get Caller Display and know it'll work with my phone which is more than can be said for NTL.
Not to mention an upload speed of 256k (which I know you've wanted for a long time. ;) )
[Edit] http://www.bt.com/reconnect/index.jsp?obsNoSee=Y&vStore=1114&obsPage=/lines/index.jsp&obsType=LINK&obsOID=83045
To find out if your property has previously had a BT line, look for a white BT phone socket, which you will find on your wall. If you find one, this may give an indication that you can get connected*
*Please note that some properties may have a white BT socket installed e.g. new property development, this will classify as a new connection and free reconnection will not apply.
Your property is not new, & must have had a BT phone line in 9 years ago surely, as ntl (Cabletel) weren't around in your area were they?
DeadKenny
10-09-2004, 14:22
I am certain that you don't have to pay this, & the fact that you have a BT socket in the house supports the fact that it is a reconnection (which is free)
I note that say "Please note that some properties may have a white BT socket installed e.g. new property development, this will classify as a new connection and free reconnection will not apply"
However, it's not a new property (it's over 100 years old), and has the old overhead BT cable connecting the place.
I'll have to try and argue it when they come to install it. They'll probably turn up and realise it's a wasted journey but if I can get them to confirm (in writing perhaps) that it's definitely a pre-existing install then I should be able to get BT to refund the money.
Not to mention an upload speed of 256k (which I know you've wanted for a long time. ;) )
Indeed :D. No more need for 1Mbps just to get 256kbps upload :tu:, so that's a saving of £16 with PlusNet (based on their 512/256 service and 'unlimited' use option. It's even cheaper if I go for a capped service).
Though 2Mbps/256kbps for £39 uncapped is also tempting, though I probably don't need uncapped as I doubt I use that much. Cool thing is I can get 2Mbps capped at 2Gb per month for £19.99 and PAYG for the extra, so I can see how it goes and adjust it.
I note that say "Please note that some properties may have a white BT socket installed e.g. new property development, this will classify as a new connection and free reconnection will not apply"
However, it's not a new property (it's over 100 years old), and has the old overhead BT cable connecting the place.
I'll have to try and argue it when they come to install it. They'll probably turn up and realise it's a wasted journey but if I can get them to confirm (in writing perhaps) that it's definitely a pre-existing install then I should be able to get BT to refund the money.
Indeed :D. No more need for 1Mbps just to get 256kbps upload :tu:, so that's a saving of £16 with PlusNet (based on their 512/256 service and 'unlimited' use option. It's even cheaper if I go for a capped service).
Though 2Mbps/256kbps for £39 uncapped is also tempting, though I probably don't need uncapped as I doubt I use that much. Cool thing is I can get 2Mbps capped at 2Gb per month for £19.99 and PAYG for the extra, so I can see how it goes and adjust it.
Welcome to the world of choice my friend, I'm sure you'll enjoy your stay. ;)
So anyway, they're charging me £75 :(
This charge probably wont turn up on your bill, it didn't on mine even though they insisted they were going to charge it. :)
Porting the number was easy, although they've said I'll never be able to use Call Minder, 1471 or Call Return with a ported number. Still, at least I get get Caller Display and know it'll work with my phone which is more than can be said for NTL.
I'd take that with a pinch of salt mate, I ported my number and have no problems using the facilities listed above (apart from call minder, we use the free 1571) :)
DeadKenny
10-09-2004, 18:37
Cool. Just have to see how it goes anyway.
As for ADSL. I assume all the line tests can be done prior to me buying the modem? I know PlusNet do modems, but I want to get a plain Ethernet ADSL Modem (not router/modem) as I have my self-built router, but I don't want to go buy the modem if the line tests fail.
i.e. they don't require a modem to be plugged in for the tests?
DrAwesome
10-09-2004, 20:22
Cool. Just have to see how it goes anyway.
As for ADSL. I assume all the line tests can be done prior to me buying the modem? I know PlusNet do modems, but I want to get a plain Ethernet ADSL Modem (not router/modem) as I have my self-built router, but I don't want to go buy the modem if the line tests fail.
Solution is simple dont buy the Adsl modem until you get the notice that your line is okay to have Adsl.
I run with both Ethernet Router & Ethernet Adsl/Router & the combination is good, i found looking at the various Adsl Ethernet modems on offer (within my price range) didnt offer that much (with regards to internal modem options) & was such a head spin for choosing as i didnt want to waste my hard earned cash on the wrong type of Adsl modem, so i posted on the forum for any suggestions & Neil suggested Netgear as that was his choice & a good one it was. :Yes:
i.e. they don't require a modem to be plugged in for the tests?
No :)
Reading My Thread will help you (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=5145&page=1)
DeadKenny
11-09-2004, 16:44
Cheers. These threads with your experiences are very useful :tu:
As for the modem, I was looking at this...
D-Link DSL-300T ADSL Ethernet Modem (http://www.dsl-warehouse.co.uk/product.asp?pr=DSL-300T&pm=260)
DrAwesome
11-09-2004, 20:36
Cheers. These threads with your experiences are very useful :tu:
As for the modem, I was looking at this...
D-Link DSL-300T ADSL Ethernet Modem (http://www.dsl-warehouse.co.uk/product.asp?pr=DSL-300T&pm=260)
If your looking to buy the D-Link 300T then its slightly cheaper Here (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00022V2DU/qid=1094930790/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/026-5684596-2198802) as the postage is FREE if you decide to order it dont forget to use the Cable Forum url link (Check with a mod to see if its still accessible) :)
If your looking to buy the D-Link 300T then its slightly cheaper Here (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00022V2DU/qid=1094930790/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/026-5684596-2198802) as the postage is FREE if you decide to order it dont forget to use the Cable Forum url link (Check with a mod to see if its still accessible) :)
We now have our very own Amazon Store! :D
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/amazonstore/
Spend all you like there! :p:
We now have our very own Amazon Store! :D
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/amazonstore/
Spend all you like there! :p:
I love the first result when you click on the cable TV button :
Cable Television in Western Europe: A Licence to Print Money?
Maybe someone should tell NTL :D
Just a bit of info. for people wanting to move to ADSL, I swapped to one.tel about a month ago and the service was awful, my router disconnected every couple of hours, the speeds were terrible and the customer service staff were very rude and abrupt, I've since moved to wanadoo (which I was a bit worried about doing) and the actual DSL service is very good, no disconnects yet and pages load a lot faster, admittedly the 1 meg service I'm on has a 30 gig a month cap but I don't think I've ever exceeded that in all the time I've had broadband. It's also very reasonably priced at £27.99 for the 1 meg service.
DeadKenny
04-10-2004, 15:59
Okay, BT line installed (after a little bit of work as they discovered it had been physically unplugged somewhere after 6 or more years of non-use. Not sure if that will mean I get charged the £75 in the end, but they've already put £75 down on the contract details despite there being a BT socket in existence).
However the number port seems to be dragging. I've got an outbound dial-tone but no inbound calls yet as the port is still "in the queue". The BT guy said it may take a while, but should be within the same day. The line was done this morning and still no sign of the number being ported across yet.
Update: Number port has gone through now. So far so good :tu:
Haven't decided on a modem yet though. I need one that works well with most routers, and I'm reading bad things about some of the D-Links. Does anyone use Freesco or any other linux router together with an ADSL modem, and what modem do you use?
DeadKenny
04-10-2004, 18:31
Update 2: Application gone in for PlusNet and they've accepted everything so far for 2Mbps uncapped pending line checks :tu:
DeadKenny
04-10-2004, 22:51
Update 3: Hmm, rejected at the 2nd step where they verified the line. Initial reply suggests it could be something "incompatible" on the line :(
Still, it could just be I put the application in too soon and the number isn't fully registered on BT's system. Hope so otherwise I could be out of luck :(
DeadKenny
06-10-2004, 13:01
Update 4: Looks like I'd jumped the gun that's all. It's resubmitted and they tell me it's due for activation on the 13th :tu:
So, modems...
Anyone know anything about X-Modem (http://www.adslnation.com/products/xmodem-ce.php)?
I need to know if it works with linux routers like Freesco.
Failing that, any other recommended standalone Ethernet modems that are a drop-in replacement for the cable modem. The D-Link seems to get bad reviews for compatibility (but then X-Modem has compatibility problems with some routers also).
This is an old thread but a very interesting one.
I'm looking at getting 2meg adsl with Nildram. Why 2meg? Well my eldest and i used to actually manage to share a 512k adsl for gaming a few years back. It was'nt perfect, but it was playable, we tried sharing 1 meg cable, but it was'nt good. Since the 1.5meg its not been that good at all,for gaming or much else except browsing etc. He's had his own 1meg adsl put in, and hes happy as larry but it costs him money he cant really afford.
I find i just cant get a decent game of UT with cable, and i've just got fed up of trying.
Been with NTL for 2 yrs, and been pretty happy with the service overall,and the help i've had here when there has been trouble.
So if Nildram dont look after me, i hope ntl will have me back. ;)
Downside for me is I have heard you have to "log on" each time you use the Internet or restart your PC. One of the main benefits of ntl is the "always-on" connection. I'd miss that. Can anyone confirm whether or not you do have to log in to ADSL or is this a myth.
Downside for me is I have heard you have to "log on" each time you use the Internet or restart your PC. One of the main benefits of ntl is the "always-on" connection. I'd miss that. Can anyone confirm whether or not you do have to log in to ADSL or is this a myth.
No you don't have to.
Yep, Neil is right... When I had ADSL (with Club Internet back in 2000) I only had to do that because the ISP insisted on it, but I soon managed to find a workaround ;)
My recollection is that ADSl does act like a dialup, but in many setups, it is set to connect during PC startup - actually, if you're paranoid about "leaks", you may prefer to have it manually initiated - especially if on one of the 1Gb or 2Gb capped services, as "always on" is not such a great idea then.
Yep, good point that if you're metered it may be something to consider (especially if you've got a wireless router too)... I hadn't thought of that, as I had unmetered back then.
DeadKenny
11-02-2005, 17:12
ADSL's "dial-up" nature is a throw back to the fact BT rolled it on on horrible USB adapters.
ADSL routers and standalone modems are basically the same as cable modems (which are mini-routers in themselves just with NAT abilities turned off usually). These are "always on" (assuming you leave the thing switched on). Rebooting your PC doesn't require reconnection in this case.
There is authentication involved with ADSL with username/password and this must be set up in the router/modem, whereas cable is authenticated on MAC address (easily faked, but then you're sharing the data with all your neighbours so who cares about security ;)).
downquark1
27-07-2005, 19:02
What's the ADSL of choice these days?
MovedGoalPosts
27-07-2005, 19:13
What's the ADSL of choice these days?
Judging by numerous recent complaints (see el reg), not Bulldog :eek:
Try the advanced search on asdlguide to find an ISP that suits you. It all depends on what start up costs you're willing to pay and what sort of equipment you want throwing in. :)
Judging by numerous recent complaints (see el reg), not Bulldog :eek:
Oh yes, Bulldog, things are very bad at the moment I'd not recommend them if you like your ISP hassle free. :disturbd:
Ignition
28-07-2005, 02:37
Just a quiet warning, Plusnet ADSL is traffic shaped, and the effects can be pretty noticeable even on the so called 'premier' package so I've been informed.
http://www.adslguide.org.uk/newsarchive.asp?item=2314
SMHarman
28-07-2005, 11:47
We have Demon HomeOffice at our Office and it seems to be good if you like your ADSL hassle free...
(and with a static IP, so static it is printed on your subscription details card).
DeadKenny
29-07-2005, 00:03
Just a quiet warning, Plusnet ADSL is traffic shaped, and the effects can be pretty noticeable even on the so called 'premier' package so I've been informed.
http://www.adslguide.org.uk/newsarchive.asp?item=2314
As with all PlusNet scares like this, all smoke, no fire ;)
No signs of anything remotely problematic here, and have been getting full rate on certain P2P apps, but to be frankly fair, no one really is going to be running P2P apps with the expectation of running flat out at 100% anyway. If on the other hand you were streaming broadband video and it slowed down due to traffic shaping, then there would be a lot to complain about, but that's not what's happening.
Of course the usual band of people will complain about how they want a 100% unlimited, uncapped, unshapped and contended at 1:1, because some bit of product literature once upon a time said "unlimited" and they aren't getting it. Well, here's the reality guys... those days are gone!
If anyone thinks other ISPs don't traffic shape or are not planning to, they are seriously kidding themselves. Most ISPs do, as do the numerous servers and routers that act as the hops around the net. The reality is the Internet has to be managed this way or else it grinds to a halt. More so as VoIP and VOD becomes popular.
The main problem with PlusNet is they are honest. Far too honest. They tell it how it is. Most ISPs do exactly what PlusNet do, just they don't tell anyone about it. Mind you, most ISPs don't go announcing one thing one week and change their mind the next ;) (so arguably this traffic shapping business will probably go away once they've had a barage of moans in adslguide forums, and then they'll do something else).
At the end of the day, PlusNet deliver the goods, and I get a fast 2Mbps service for bargain prices but with nice frills and pretty darn good customer service (more than I can be said for certain ISPs).
And you have to admit... how many ISPs will actually appologise for slow file sharing speeds? ;). Most will more likely react with a tone of dissaproval about file sharing anyway.
Ignition
29-07-2005, 00:18
OK We'll pretend they weren't pretending it was nothing to do with them for a couple of weeks before they admitted to it then, and that they had an 18 minute long queue for the phones 11pm last night, and that they disconnect users overnight on a random basis to loadbalance their creaking pipes, and that they aren't running their BT Interconnects close to 100% both bandwidth and sessions wise :)
They're too cheap sadly :(
BTW Routers on the internet certainly do not traffic shape, it's in their interest to get as much data as possible so that they can charge for the usage of their bandwidth. Can't see transit providers traffic shaping so that their customers pay them less somehow.
Anyway here's a few less than satisfied people:
http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=plusnet&Number=1953565&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=0
http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=plusnet&Number=1932176&page=1&view=expanded&sb=5&o=0
http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=plusnet&Number=1953250&page=1&view=expanded&sb=5&o=0
Along with their total utilisation, note the nice flat top as the bandwidth maxes out, and the spat at 11 o'clock where something was done with the traffic shaping that made a couple of hundred Mbps appear from nowhere.
http://www.plus.net/support/adsl/adsl_utilisation.shtm
Also note the jaggy bits where they disconnect users to try and balance their heaving BT interconnects.
Also I highly recommend PN's own customer forums at http://portal.plus.net/central/forums/index.php username guest password guest.
You get what you pay for sadly.
DeadKenny
29-07-2005, 01:07
OK We'll pretend they weren't pretending it was nothing to do with them for a couple of weeks before they admitted to it then, and that they had an 18 minute long queue for the phones 11pm last night, and that they disconnect users overnight on a random basis to loadbalance their creaking pipes, and that they aren't running their BT Interconnects close to 100% both bandwidth and sessions wise :)
99% of their users will be unaware of this, but anyway.
18 minutes... pah, NTL had that beat at 40 minutes and that was on a regular daily basis not just a one off :p:
BTW Routers on the internet certainly do not traffic shape, it's in their interest to get as much data as possible so that they can charge for the usage of their bandwidth. Can't see transit providers traffic shaping so that their customers pay them less somehow.
Well Cisco have a lot of money invested in QoS routers. Many are used by ISPs obviously, but if you traceroute a site on the net you are using numerous ISPs on the way and are only out on the "real" net for a short part of the journey. The rest can be traffic shaped at both ends by numerous routers on the way.
Traffic shaping is inevitable.
Interesting read regarding P2P on the net...
http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=44435&print=true
Anyway here's a few less than satisfied people:
http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=plusnet&Number=1953565&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=0
http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=plusnet&Number=1932176&page=1&view=expanded&sb=5&o=0
http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=plusnet&Number=1953250&page=1&view=expanded&sb=5&o=0
Now read all the other forums on adslguide, just as vocal or more so about other ISPs;). Ever read the threads here about NTL, and also on the other similar sites and the old nthellworld? Hmm, Seem to recall a lot more voice on that one ;)
adslguide is full of the 0.1% who like to moan ever 2 seconds. Give them a week and they'll have forgotten about it when they realise it's a non-issue anyway.
Of course loads of armchair complainers like to presume their crappy speed test results are as a direct result of the ISP's actions without any real evidence ;)
Along with their total utilisation, note the nice flat top as the bandwidth maxes out, and the spat at 11 o'clock where something was done with the traffic shaping that made a couple of hundred Mbps appear from nowhere.
http://www.plus.net/support/adsl/adsl_utilisation.shtml
Not sure what you're looking at there, but looks like a pretty average utilisation graph to me. Nothing at 100% there, though it doesn't specify what the pipe limits are anyway and it's a very simplistic graph that doesn't show the full picture. Would love to see NTL's utilisation graphs :D
Also note the jaggy bits where they disconnect users to try and balance their heaving BT interconnects.
A minor blip at 6am. NTL take people offline for longer periods than that when balancing their network, and often leave them off resulting in frustrated calls, engineers out and it turns out they just needed their modems rebooting ;)
You get what you pay for sadly.
Yep, great quality service that works :tu:. I've recommended it to dozens of people and they're all happy (and I'm even more happy as I get a discount from their referrals :D... and it they were unhappy I'd stop getting the discounts as they'd have quit ;)).
Paid twice as much with NTL, total crap all the time as you well know ;).
Guess you've got a beef with Plus though, just as I had with NTL :p:
I keep getting the "please come back" begging letters from NTL... I'm tempted to send them back with a "when hell freezes over" response :D
Yours, looking forward to 8Mbps (which is quite possible given my distance from the exchange, 4Mbps definite) :p:
Ignition
29-07-2005, 03:27
Not sure what you're looking at there, but looks like a pretty average utilisation graph to me. Nothing at 100% there, though it doesn't specify what the pipe limits are anyway and it's a very simplistic graph that doesn't show the full picture. Would love to see NTL's utilisation graphs
Trust me they don't go that close to max for most of the day, and if I could show you I would, cable modem network running at less than 40% capacity, core less than 25% at peak times. A bit of a contrast to Plusnet you could say, who are effectively maxing, especially when you consider that they aren't going to get the 2480Mbps on the graph from their BT Interconnects, and these interconnects are deployed in 74Mbps chunks. Wonder how many of these are full :s
A minor blip at 6am. NTL take people offline for longer periods than that when balancing their network, and often leave them off resulting in frustrated calls
No we don't, network balancing from ntl uses a command which doesn't disconnect customers modems at all.
Interesting read regarding P2P on the net...
http://www.lightreading.com/documen...4435&print=true
Looks like it's sponsored by Ellacoya, and is hopelessly out of date. P2P is shaped by consumer ISPs if at all, isn't touched while traversing core networks in between them, so to say it's shaped all along the internet isn't really the case, some ISPs do it, far from all, and it'll almost certainly only be done at one point, core network bandwidth is very cheap.
Yours, looking forward to 8Mbps (which is quite possible given my distance from the exchange, 4Mbps definite)
Be interesting to see how badly they start shaping on the 4/8M services, especially considering how much they are struggling with the current 2Mbit service pricing. If you think cable won't keep up or go faster you're quite wrong :)
Of course loads of armchair complainers like to presume their crappy speed test results are as a direct result of the ISP's actions without any real evidence
Interesting how these same people were fine before hand and Plusnet by their own admission have made some mistakes with the shaping. Also interesting how in at least one of those threads a guy was complaining of slow speeds on all applications, when he logged on through the BT test, eliminating PN entirely from the equation, speeds were fine, strange that.
Well Cisco have a lot of money invested in QoS routers.
You're confusing traffic shaping of this kind, application level shaping, with MPLS based traffic / route tagging. The two are quite different things.
Interesting how few people are happy with them blocking legitimate traffic through poorly implemented port blocking, traffic shaping after advertising the service as shaping free, messing up their traffic shaping.
If you're happy with this fair play to you. Though when was the last time you had anyone complain of ntl being congested? :) There's basically zero congestion anywhere now. More than can be said for certain companies that have underpriced to the point where they have to both artificilaly contend customers (BT's 50:1 product is actually delivered at 25:1 or better usually, though PN are enforcing 30:1 through shaping, and customers on the 20:1 product which PN alledge has 15:1 are seeing the same issues as resi custs, because when a pipe's full it's full whatever you're paying) and restrict applications.
Still look on the bright side, your 4/8Mbps definite will be great when they take another 5% off some apps, then another 5%.... :)
Guess you've got a beef with Plus though, just as I had with NTL
Nah, I've a beef with lying scrote ISPs who lie to their customers about major things, sell them products then change the terms, and unlike ntl and the previous cap issues refuse to let customers out of their contracts despite this blatant change to T+Cs.
Add that to their various methods to cut down usage, the 'Bad Boy Pipe' stuffing all the heavy users onto a single network segment so they can contend (not actually a bad idea!), the Fair Use Policy that came then went, etc, etc.
Sympathy with them that it's BT prices that cause them to be in this situation, zero sympathy that they are charging a cut price for a *******ised service in an attempt to gain customers, and their quality of service is suffering as a result, both technically and from the support point of view.
DeadKenny
30-07-2005, 13:52
No we don't, network balancing from ntl uses a command which doesn't disconnect customers modems at all.
NTL did cut me off quite often during their attempts to mess about with the network. The number of times I found my modem in a poor state and then looked up the online status page (when it was working), and I'd find they'd been playing about in my area about the exact time the modem went down :(. I also remember it would often reboot at midnight.
Be interesting to see how badly they start shaping on the 4/8M services, especially considering how much they are struggling with the current 2Mbit service pricing. If you think cable won't keep up or go faster you're quite wrong :)
From what I understood, 3Mbps was a struggle with concern whether the network would cope, needed to roll out new equipment, and certain management would have rather not offered such high speeds to "bandwidth hoggers" anyway ;)
However when forward thinking Telewest come on board, things may change.
Can NTL's cable network really can cope with 8Mbps across the board for all customers without a major level of investment?. Sure the modems (some of them) can go to 30Mbps, but the same issues apply in regards to distance and fibre/coax is quite susceptible to noise and interference (certainly in my experience).
As I understand it NTL are looking to ADSL technology (maybe ADSL2+) over their copper phone lines instead to deliver the goods as they know cable can't cut it ;). Actually I'd be quite interested in that as NTL can put equipment quite close to the customer which means high speeds are quite achievable and cheap to provide. Just a shame I cannot put up with their customer service (again maybe Telewest will help there).
Interesting how these same people were fine before hand and Plusnet by their own admission have made some mistakes with the shaping. Also interesting how in at least one of those threads a guy was complaining of slow speeds on all applications, when he logged on through the BT test, eliminating PN entirely from the equation, speeds were fine, strange that.
Speed tests on Plus for me, including using their own tester, shows I've been getting pretty much bang on what's expected for 2Mbps all during this (non)"event".
If you're happy with this fair play to you. Though when was the last time you had anyone complain of ntl being congested? :)
I believe it was NTL themselves who wrote letters to customers who were maxing out the network to the detriment of other customers ;)
There's basically zero congestion anywhere now.
They may as well remove this clause from the UP (http://www.home.ntl.com/page/userpolicy) then...
"Customers who use the services more heavily than a normal home user will reduce the performance of the network for other customers."
;)
(BT's 50:1 product is actually delivered at 25:1 or better usually, though PN are enforcing 30:1 through shaping, and customers on the 20:1 product which PN alledge has 15:1 are seeing the same issues as resi custs, because when a pipe's full it's full whatever you're paying)
To quote PN...
"PlusNet network contention and the BT contention ratio are different, but both apply to your connection. PlusNet network contention is the maximum contention you will experience on our broadband network, which helps you choose the most appropriate product. The BT contention ratio describes how many other broadband users you share with at your local telephone exchange."
BT's exchange contention is one you'll never really experience anyway. PlusNet's is the same as all other ISPs in existance in that there are always going to be a finite number of customers contended for a limited resource (the pipe). They've just put a number on it and used QoS to split between two packages instead of using a cap.
What it is not is PN applying 30:1 on a 50:1 contented product. It doesn't work like that. 50:1 is the exchange contention, 30:1 is the pipe contention. Totally different.
Anyway, I've never experienced congestion issues with PlusNet myself, even when using P2P. Most "complaints" with PlusNets are all based on announcements and not experience. At the end of the day the service still runs at a quality level of service for the vast majority.
Nah, I've a beef with lying scrote ISPs who lie to their customers about major things, sell them products then change the terms, and unlike ntl and the previous cap issues refuse to let customers out of their contracts despite this blatant change to T+Cs.
They normally let people out of their contract. They'll probably change their mind here anyway ;)
I can take constantly changing T&Cs, so long as at the end of the day my broadband works, I get about the speed I'm paying for and I can still do everything I could before. All this, for me, is absolutely true of PlusNet who have delivered everything I want :D
NTL on the other hand couldn't deliver a stable connection despite years of pestering them in the hope it would change. Can't deliver... customer leaves.
Interestingly, NTL is still a dirty word in the office I work ;)
Add that to their various methods to cut down usage, the 'Bad Boy Pipe' stuffing all the heavy users onto a single network segment so they can contend (not actually a bad idea!), the Fair Use Policy that came then went, etc, etc.
All came out in the wash though. As I say their fault is in being honest about what they're planning and announcing things without thinking. At least they listen to their customers ;)
Sympathy with them that it's BT prices that cause them to be in this situation, zero sympathy that they are charging a cut price for a *******ised service in an attempt to gain customers, and their quality of service is suffering as a result, both technically and from the support point of view.
I strongly dissagree with you over their customer service. I've been nothing short of extremely impressed with it. Can't say that at all about NTL who's customer service you well know I viewed as the worst of the worst in the world (where's my compensation for all those days they never turned up and screwed up making me take time off work? :rolleyes: ).
Ignition
31-07-2005, 20:14
A fair bit of what you say, especially about ntl, network capabilities, etc, isn't really accurate.
They should be alright so long as you don't download too much though, looks as though they've answered my questions about the 4 / 8Mbit, adding hard capping to the traffic shaping:
http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=zen&Number=1957549
DeadKenny
31-07-2005, 23:48
And I wonder what NTL would do if lots of people were downloading 248Gb a month? ;)... ah but they can't :D
Zen will do the same as the likes of PlusNet though ultimately (and Plus aren't the first). No ISP can ultimately provide a truly unlimited service free for P2Pers to download at max capacity and also promise a near to 1:1 experience like most the heavy "downloaders" seem to expect for a consumer broadband product (even at NTL's prices).
I don't really see the problem really. These issues only affect a very small minority who really are expecting a level of service from a consumer product more akin to a business level product.
ADSL Seams expensive.. :(
how would i go about networking these up.. as i am loooking for a router kinda thing.. atm im on ntl, and use LAN, i got 3 PC's connected, and i have to always have one computer on, so the other computers get the internet...
with a router, does this stop??
Thanks :),
oh and also, i've never had BT phone line, only NTL, i think.. ( im 100% sure of it tho )
Thanks for helping :)
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