View Full Version : Have a laugh at what this study is trying to imply please.
We all love the BBC's stories, especially this one...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4905898.stm
Ok, so how many people do you know who are "Goths" and proceed to label themselves as one? To me this just shouts "wannabes" of some description who are trying to fit into a "subculture" and therefore any test or study like this is critically flawed. Anyone else agree?
EDIT: I'm not in anyway laughing about people harming themselves.
Have a laugh about people harming themselves? I reckon you might need to have a think about that one mate.
No, you misread what i was on about, or, i failed in communication.
Have a laugh at how they can prove this load of codswallop. Sure people harm themselves, but, to do a study like this which almost condemns all goths, as it adds to there stereotypes. IS, well, plainly wrong and flawed.
greencreeper
14-04-2006, 22:28
I read the article earlier. I'm sceptical as to whether Goths do self-harm or inflict injuries as part of the process of belonging to the sub-culture.
I think your first problem was with the thread title, it makes it sound like you are inviting people to laugh about what is contained in the study.
In any case it does not condemn all goths - it just states that those who consider themselves to be one are more likely to self-harm. I don't see anything to criticise in that?
I read the article earlier. I'm sceptical as to whether Goths do self-harm or inflict injuries as part of the process of belonging to the sub-culture. Here we go, that is what i was looking for. It seems to apply that belonging to that subculture makes you more at risk of comitting self-harm.
Here we go, that is what i was looking for. It seems to apply that belonging to that subculture makes you more at risk of comitting self-harm.
I see nothing wrong with that assertion given the research undertaken in that study?
If they'd just said "we reckon goths are more likely to self-harm" then I'd understand your point - but it's backed up with research.
timewarrior2001
14-04-2006, 22:36
I cant believe we are even discussing this.
Goths are moody cos it suits them to be, it is part of a culture and they express themselves in stupid ways.
Yes the majority of goths I have met need a good slapping and to be told they are NOT vampires or original.
However not ALL Goths are like this, define Goth
Black clothing, hell I'm into metal and punk and I wear black clothing
Define Goth music.
Errrmmm well you could argue that bands like Field of the nephilim are goth, but when you cant define goth how can you define goth music?
Self harm
Being the manic depressive I am, I have been suicidal, I have been to the edge and fought back, But I didnt cut myself with razor blades, its a culture thing, they are trying to live up to an image, an image that is so ****ed up you cannot even begin to comprehend it.
All Goths I know have a goth name, 99% of them are named after literary vampires, such as armand....basically if they appear in an anne rice book you can bet a goth has adopted that name.
Goths do get a lot of hassle, they dont like it, but the way some of them try and make themselves stand out its hardly surprising. I frequent clubs that have a strong goth contingency, I dont find them to be any trouble, I dont mind them and the women usually look sexy as hell, its the goth guys I have issues with. They are soooooo effiminate, men walking the streets in PVC bondage gear isnt normal to me, I'm all for self expressionism, but sometimes we have to hold ourselves back, its called self restraint.
greencreeper
14-04-2006, 23:00
It's difficult to explain what self-harming is. A relative did it for a long time - cutting (using razors) and burning (using the cooker). It's the process of inflicting injuries to effect a release - but it's more than that. It's not something I'd expect in a Goth if, as the article says, they're well-grounded and destined to be successful. If the article is correct, I'm wondering to what extend it's just part of the culture - the fascination with death and injury.
Oh and I find Goths strangely sexy :D
I deal with a lot of self harmers through volunteering work (not face-to-face though)
Most are what would be considered to be 'normal' more often girls in my experiance.
The study is rather small and the sub-group of goths within it is made up of only 25 individuals. Hardly enough to come to any concrete conclusions, as it says....more research needs to be done. But it does look like self harmers might gravitate to being goths.
jrhnewark
15-04-2006, 00:02
Couldn't agree more with the OP. If I hear the kid next door deciding she wants to become a goth and all this business about "the coolness of wrist slitting" one more time, I'll go round there and do it for her. Grrh!
I have known one or two real self-harmers, and there's nothing at all cool about it - and I really don't like the media (especially certain soaps) bringing about this notion that self-harming now appears to be "cool" to little kiddos.
Sickening - yes, "wannabe" is exactly the word.
Couldn't agree more with the OP. If I hear the kid next door deciding she wants to become a goth and all this business about "the coolness of wrist slitting" one more time, I'll go round there and do it for her. Grrh!The coolness of wrist slitting? :erm: wtf? I blame the parents :dozey: (of course, I'm a parent and this kind of teenage thinking makes me rather worried)
Just for the record i'm forever listening to someone who i care for so much, i've found if i'm there to listen to what troubles her, she doesn't cut anywhere near as much. To me, that feels satisfying, being able to help.
I'm starting to wonder whether i should have started this thread or not.
Macca371
15-04-2006, 01:45
Bloody goths. :mad: It's probably all that screaming death metal crap that they listen to, it would depress anybody. Seriously though, the subculture as somebody has called it is a very depressing lifestyle - the emotional, very hard rock music, the dark clothing, almost everything about the trend is depressive.
I hate the attitude of some goths - "Oh look I'm all non-conforming! You would be non conforming and cool too if you looked just like us!"
Some of them need a good slap.
Bloody goths. :mad: It's probably all that screaming death metal crap that they listen to, it would depress anybody. Seriously though, the subculture as somebody has called it is a very depressing lifestyle - the emotional, very hard rock music, the dark clothing, almost everything about the trend is depressive. I hate the attitude of some goths - "Oh look I'm all non-conforming! You would be non conforming and cool too if you looked just like us!" Some of them need a good slap. Th non-conforming thing is common throughout almost very subculture, mainly pointed out in the "emo" subculture. This is where the main attention seeking seems to take place withitn the people i know.
Try some death metal, i like it, doesn't affect me very much at all, and after it, i seem to be happier... Dunno why. But hey :)
greencreeper
15-04-2006, 07:01
I'm starting to wonder whether i should have started this thread or not.
That happens to me often. It seems some subjects push all the wrong buttons and you're hunted down by a pack of red repping hounds. I've posted the most innocent of comments and then found myself defending what I've said. I think there's a form of radiation coming from the sun that scientists haven't yet found. Every so oft, a big burst is let loose and everyone goes nuts.
timewarrior2001
15-04-2006, 08:49
Bloody goths. :mad: It's probably all that screaming death metal crap that they listen to, it would depress anybody. Seriously though, the subculture as somebody has called it is a very depressing lifestyle - the emotional, very hard rock music, the dark clothing, almost everything about the trend is depressive.
I hate the attitude of some goths - "Oh look I'm all non-conforming! You would be non conforming and cool too if you looked just like us!"
Some of them need a good slap.
Traditionally "screaming death metal crap" isnt a goth music style.
That would be a metal music style, like the guys who listen to slipknot, like me.
DO NOT confuse Goths with metal and punk fans, we are not alike in anyway.
Bands like Slayer, Metallica, guns and roses etc are rock/metal
Bands like Rubicon, sisters of mercy, Marilyn manson, the cure, morrisey etc are "gothic"
Although there are cross overs where people listen to both styles.
besides goth girls and rock chicks are hot.
We had a wannabe goth at uni, he'd actually practice his moping technique!
I used to get mistaken for a goth because at uni, being the practical sort, I wore black (made doing the laundry much simpler) and would confuse the heck out of people when I was all happy and smily.
I'm expecting the next goth report to say somthing like "short fat girls more likely to become goths because black hides the blubber"
Yes self harming is terrible, and there needs to be research into how best to treat it (I heard one councellor say she suggests squeezing ice cubes because it causes pain but leaves no marks), but amongst some of the goths at uni there was the believe that it was something you did as a goth, although self harming simply to conform with a group is distressing too!
I've often found it curious that so many goths claim to be 'individuals' when they always wear the same type of clothes :spin:
I've often found it curious that so many goths claim to be 'individuals' when they always wear the same type of clothes :spin:
Brian "You're all individuals"
Croud "We're all individuals"
Loner "Er, I'm not"
:D
bmxbandit
15-04-2006, 13:30
as always, correlation != causality
im sure i read somewhere that most serial killers listen to classical music, perhaps that should be clamped down on... :erm: ;)
---------- Post added at 13:30 ---------- Previous post was at 13:26 ----------
I've often found it curious that so many goths claim to be 'individuals' when they always wear the same type of clothes :spin:
all part of the disestablished establishment, im afraid! there are generally very few places that make/sell goth-y clothing, so even if they wanted to look individual (which most don't really), there's not that much scope! just ignore them, it's what they want anyway ;)
(NB i know a lot of 'em, and they're mostly fine upstanding citizens)
More murders are carried out by left handed people than right - but what does it mean? Should we go back to forcing leftys (not Labour supporters :D ) to switch hands when they are taught how to write?
There's no good coming up with a load of stats that look like there's a correlation if we can't figure out what it means.
I tend to disregard studies like this anyway, after all 25 is hardly a representative figure is it!
I read the article earlier. I'm sceptical as to whether Goths do self-harm or inflict injuries as part of the process of belonging to the sub-culture. Here we go, that is what i was looking for. It seems to apply that belonging to that subculture makes you more at risk of comitting self-harm.
I don't think the article implies any causal link. It does say that those who self harm are more likely to identify with goths.
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