View Full Version : Debt incurred under age 18....?
I had a letter from some debt collection agency this morning, saying i owe Northumbrian Water about £120 from a previous property i occupied.
I rang them up and asked what the date of this debt is and they said 2002 to March 2003...
Now, my mam reckons because i was under 18 at that time then i'm not responsible for it, but the woman on the phone reckons that it's age 15 when you are responsible:confused:. Who is right?
I told the woman on the phone that as i was only 16/17 when i lived there the house wasn't even in my name, and i lived with someone else, and she said that makes no difference, it's just that the water account was in my name obviously.
My mam says i should let them take me to court because i won't have to pay it anyway, being underage at the time.
Does anyone know what the rules are on stuff like this?
I'd guess that, if you're old enough to incur a debt (through being able to receive utilities in your name in this instance), that you would be old enough to be liable for the dect if it's not paid. The only thing I can think of where you wouldn't have to pay it is if the debt is older than 6 years, which obviously doesn't apply in this case.
TBH, if it is your debt, it's probably worth getting in touch with them to arrange payment (of about 2 quid a month, if you can get away with it ;) ). If it went to court, there's the potential for you to have a CCJ against you, which can make it a right pain the bum getting future credit - if it's a debt from when you were only 16 or 17, I'd prefer to get rid of it so it doesn't affect me 5 years down the line.
Probably not what you're looking for, but just my two cents :)
If the account was in your name then the debt is yours I would expect.
That's true Nugget, i know i'm likely to have to pay it...
However, i moved out of that property in June 2002, and the dates i got today were after this date, and i know someone else moved in not long after me, so surely they want money twice, and it's not even my debt?
Another is, if they reckon it is my debt, i don't see it as fair that only i have to pay seeing as i didn't live there alone, i told all utilities people that there was another person living there, so their name should be there somewhere.... Or perhaps not... grrr i don't get it!
handyman
11-04-2006, 11:40
Sent you a pm pia :)
Sent you a pm pia :)
Got it, thanks:)
Was kinda hoping it'd have a paypal payment of £120 in but...:disturbd:
Only kidding:D:p:
That's true Nugget, i know i'm likely to have to pay it...
However, i moved out of that property in June 2002, and the dates i got today were after this date, and i know someone else moved in not long after me, so surely they want money twice, and it's not even my debt?
Another is, if they reckon it is my debt, i don't see it as fair that only i have to pay seeing as i didn't live there alone, i told all utilities people that there was another person living there, so their name should be there somewhere.... Or perhaps not... grrr i don't get it!
I see handyman's sent you a PM, and I know that he knows more about this than I do :)
I didn't realise that this debt was incurred after you moved out - do you have anything that would confirm your address as of June 2002? If so, this proves that you weren't resident at the affected address.
The problem with utility bills is that you're not jointly liable, unlike the Council Tax. If you don't pay your Council Tax, they'll come after everybody named as living at the property. With utilities, they're only able to chase the person who's name is on the bill. However, if you can prove that you weren't there at the time in question, you should be alright :)
I see handyman's sent you a PM, and I know that he knows more about this than I do :)
Handyman basically says i need to arrange a payment plan, which is of course, what i need to sort out!
I didn't realise that this debt was incurred after you moved out - do you have anything that would confirm your address as of June 2002? If so, this proves that you weren't resident at the affected address.
Well, i lived in the house from about November 2001 - June 2002, when i was served with the eviction notice... it was because my housemate had moved out and i'd come to the end of my 6 month tenancy, so landlord said he had to evict due to me not being able to pay it on my own and not being 18 etc...
But i moved back in with my mam, so no proof of being at another address... apart from the fact i had an eviction notice:shrug:
The problem with utility bills is that you're not jointly liable, unlike the Council Tax. If you don't pay your Council Tax, they'll come after everybody named as living at the property. With utilities, they're only able to chase the person who's name is on the bill. However, if you can prove that you weren't there at the time in question, you should be alright :)
True, though i'm thinking i might have to pay some, cos if i'm honest i don't remember really paying a lot of the water rates when i was there:disturbd:, but there's no way i was there in 2003 or the end of 2002!
If you still have the eviction notices, you may want to contact them about it and say that you had moved out. It will not harm anything.
If the utilities are in your name, let this be a lesson of notifying everybody of your change of circumstance. ;)
I didn't realise that this debt was incurred after you moved out - do you have anything that would confirm your address as of June 2002? If so, this proves that you weren't resident at the affected address.
Could be the debts were incurred during her tenancy though ??
What are the dates stated for these debts ??
How did they find you ?
I didn't realise that this debt was incurred after you moved out - do you have anything that would confirm your address as of June 2002? If so, this proves that you weren't resident at the affected address.
Could be the debts were incurred during her tenancy though ??
What are the dates stated for these debts ??
How did they find you ?
When i asked what the dates of the debts were she said 2002 (can't remember which month she said) to March 2003...
Now, i moved into my current house in March 2003 so they are obviously filling the gap when i was living with my mam.
The lady on the phone said someone had given them my details, and when i asked who, she wouldn't say, then said it was a letting agency. I don't really understand it though because the old house was with a private landlord, and my current is council:shrug:
Did you inform the water company that you were moving out at the time? The landlord won't have done it for you. If not, they will probably hold you responsible for the bill until a new tenant informed them they were living there :(
The old letting agency won't have your new address, but will probably have you mum's address on file. My guess is the debt agency got your new address from the electoral roll.
Unfortunately, as Handy says, you are probably going to arrange to pay it off as quickly as you can :(
Did you inform the water company that you were moving out at the time? The landlord won't have done it for you. If not, they will probably hold you responsible for the bill until a new tenant informed them they were living there :(
I doubt i did tell them, but i know people moved in there almost as soon as i moved out... so surely, the new people were paying their water rates and they can see that the time overlaps.
It's possible the new tenant didn't inform the water company either! (ignorance or spotting a free ride)
You could try pleading that you were under stress (being evicted) and young and forgot to notify them of your moving, but tbh if they've get a debt company involved the water company probably won't be interested and the debt company will be too hard-nosed to listen :( Probably not what you want to hear, but unfortunately sometimes you need to cut your losses :(
Dave Stones
11-04-2006, 15:35
I was under the impression that you had to be over 18 to be legally liable for things like contracts etc, but then again i'm not sure :shrug:
Maybe check at the CAB...
I was under the impression that you had to be over 18 to be legally liable for things like contracts etc, but then again i'm not sure :shrug:
Maybe check at the CAB...
Yup you have to be 18 to take a contract.... Otherwise it isnt a valid contract under the eyes of the law as far as im aware.
I was under the impression that you had to be over 18 to be legally liable for things like contracts etc, but then again i'm not sure :shrug:
Maybe check at the CAB...
But would water rates (for example) count as a legal contract? When you're talking about water companies, it's not like you can pick or choose a supplier - you're tied into the one in that region.
Thinking on, you must be able to get all utilities under the age of 18, seeing as it's not unheard of for teenagers to get houses off the local council (or whoever) if they have kids, so they must be able to get electric, gas and water anyway :shrug:
gaffer_gump
11-04-2006, 16:54
Just to add my 2p worth, hindsight is a great thing as long as it's someone else doing it........ £120 really really aint worth all the hassle you will get if you don't pay it or if you set up a payment plan and only pay part of it..... this is the one thing that WILL pop up later in life and bite you on the ass:Yikes:. maybe you don't nedd a mortgage / car loan or credit card just yet but you will and this will alter your interest rate..:td:.
Take it as a lesson learned and pay it.
Or shoot me for being old and skint. :p:
I'd be really surprised if you had to pay it. The best thing to do is contact consumer direct and ask them you can get a cheap number for them from here (http://www.saynoto0870.com/search.php)
As an aside while I was googleing this I came across this:
Finally, if you have children in the home, bailiffs are strictly restricted in their access rights. If an under-18 is at home alone, i.e. there are no other adults present, then they must leave.
If an under-12 is at home, then a bailiff cannot enter, regardless of whether or not an adult is present. http://www.debtsolver.co.uk/IVA-debt-advice/2005_12_18_archive.html
Never knew that - I'm sure I've seen bailiffs on the telly in properties when Kids were there!
cookie_365
11-04-2006, 18:52
Yup you have to be 18 to take a contract.... Otherwise it isnt a valid contract under the eyes of the law as far as im aware.
Not so.
When you went into a newsagents at aged 9 and bought a Mars bar, you were entering into a valid legal contract.
You have to be 18 to take out certain contracts. I don't know if water supply contracts are one of them; I'd be surprised if they weren't.
It's illegal (for a water provider) to cut you off for arrears, though they could go to court and get a judgement against you. But to do that they'll have to persuade the court, on the balance of probability, that you owe them the money.
So I would write to them in a very friendly and polite way and ask them to demonstrate that:
You have a contract with them; ask for a copy of your signature on the agreement.
That the contract is valid; point out the date of your 18th birthday and ask them to provide evidence that if the contract was signed before then that its valid
That there are arrears; ask for a fully itemised account, which you require to confirm the arrears given the unusual delay in them contacting you.Then if they don't cave in go to see your local CAB.
Also, have a look at the Community Legal Services (http://www.clsdirect.org.uk/index.jsp?lang=en) website for more general advice on debt, collection agencies, etc.
If you have an evection notice showing you were not in (and could not be in) the property then I really can't see how you can be responsible for paying - definitely see the CAB.
cookie_365
11-04-2006, 19:03
As an aside while I was googleing this I came across this:
Finally, if you have children in the home, bailiffs are strictly restricted in their access rights. If an under-18 is at home alone, i.e. there are no other adults present, then they must leave.
If an under-12 is at home, then a bailiff cannot enter, regardless of whether or not an adult is present.
http://www.debtsolver.co.uk/IVA-debt-advice/2005_12_18_archive.html
Never knew that - I'm sure I've seen bailiffs on the telly in properties when Kids were there!
I don't think that's correct. But then since the site doesn't feel the need to link to any of its sources it makes the advice useless, regardless of its accuracy.
Did you inform the water company that you were moving out at the time? The landlord won't have done it for you. If not, they will probably hold you responsible for the bill until a new tenant informed them they were living there :( I doubt i did tell them, but i know people moved in there almost as soon as i moved out... so surely, the new people were paying their water rates and they can see that the time overlaps.
Pia go straight to your local Citizens Advice and ask them for some help in untangling the legalities.I see litlle point in paying IF you are not legally required to do so.:erm:
rogerdraig
11-04-2006, 21:30
mostly you cant have any sort of contract if your under 18 there are exceptions
so i would expect the debt isnt enforcable but i would check with CAB
Some mixed opinions here i think!....
What i'll have to do then, in this case, is phone this debt collection agency in the morning and ask if they will hold off until i speak to Citizens Advice, whether they agree to or not is a different matter:erm:
It's sooo annoying, i've been worried about all my debts as it is without this one coming up out of the blue, even if it is only for £120.
I could offer to pay them a fiver a month or whatever, but i'd rather that money was going to one of my 30-odd percent interest credit cards than some water bill from 4 years ago that i didn't know about, and it's a matter of principal too, ie not even knowing if i have to pay it!
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