View Full Version : Is a half hour wait acceptable?
Theodoric
26-11-2003, 18:56
My broadband connection was not available last night, so I phoned the ntl help line on 0845 6500125. I had a half hour wait before I was dealt with. So, is a half hour wait considered acceptable by ntl? I know that compared to that abomination known as customer service provided by C&W (pardon me whilst I count to ten), this is somewhat of an improvement, but is it really an acceptable level of customer service? I'd say not.
One other point. When I got through and explained the problem I was told that I should have been told at the beginning of the telephone call that there was some sort of known problem. I wasn't told any such thing. When I told them this, the reply boiled down to, "Oh, weren't you?" followed by a rapid change of subject.
grum1978
26-11-2003, 19:00
No half an hour is not classed as acceptable in anyone's book, howver last night I would imagine that this..
DNS - affecting all internet packages (RESOLVED)
25 November 2003 16:32
Due to a major server outage, ntl:home internet customers on all packages may currently be experiencing problems with ALL internet access, including web browsing, email, ftp and newsgroups.
Our engineers are currently investigating and hope to resolve this issue as soon as possible.
Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience caused.
Please note that due to the nature of this outage our technical support lines are much busier than normal, resulting in long wait times on all lines. If you suspect this issue affects you, please check this page or the ntlworld server status line on 0800 052 4315 for updates
This has now been resolved
might of affected the time you had to wait :)
downquark1
26-11-2003, 19:02
I've had well over an hour in my long history with the company
paulyoung666
26-11-2003, 19:03
My broadband connection was not available last night, so I phoned the ntl help line on 0845 6500125. I had a half hour wait before I was dealt with. So, is a half hour wait considered acceptable by ntl? I know that compared to that abomination known as customer service provided by C&W (pardon me whilst I count to ten), this is somewhat of an improvement, but is it really an acceptable level of customer service? I'd say not.
One other point. When I got through and explained the problem I was told that I should have been told at the beginning of the telephone call that there was some sort of known problem. I wasn't told any such thing. When I told them this, the reply boiled down to, "Oh, weren't you?" followed by a rapid change of subject.
just one point when you / we had a problem did you check ntl's server status page to see if there were any problems :)
also why didnt you think of ringing c.s first to see if there were any known problems , it is freephone :tu:
Completely unacceptable, but all too common!:mis:
btw....I did get a message at the beginning of the call when I rang tech support.
52 Minutes I waited in one call once, then I was cut off. :grind:
NTL aren't the only ones, been holding on for vodafone for past 34 minutes good job battery is charged!
just one point when you / we had a problem did you check ntl's server status page to see if there were any problems :)
also why didnt you think of ringing c.s first to see if there were any known problems , it is freephone :tu:
he may not have been able to get online to actually SEE the status page.
Incog.
scrotnig
26-11-2003, 19:46
Sadly when something unexpected happens that causes a major outage, the company are unlikely to have enough people available to deal with the ensuing attempts by almost EVERY customer to get through.
Many customers still try to get through even when a recorded message is on the line explaining the problem.
Graham F
26-11-2003, 19:53
Sadly when something unexpected happens that causes a major outage, the company are unlikely to have enough people available to deal with the ensuing attempts by almost EVERY customer to get through.
Many customers still try to get through even when a recorded message is on the line explaining the problem.
Please tell me you aren't being serious when you say
to deal with the ensuing attempts by almost EVERY customer to get through.
are you trying to tell me that almost all the one million plus internet customers tried to contact ntl last night abt this fault?!?
:rofl::rofl:
dieselking
26-11-2003, 19:55
With one company (not ntl) we rung up at about 4pm & waited 3 hours once (the call was important so we needed to get through as my brother needed something for work) After waiting 3 hours (lucky the phone was on loud speaker) we got a message saying all the staff had now gone home & could we please ring back tomorrow (or course, we didnââ‚ ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t) We sent a few emails & about 6 days later we finally got an answer. Thereââ‚ƚ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s the worst service we have ever had :afire: :mad: & u thought ntl was bad :)
paulyoung666
26-11-2003, 20:02
he may not have been able to get online to actually SEE the status page.
Incog.
very true stooooooooooopid me , mind you i would still ring the free number first :rolleyes: :p :p
Theodoric
26-11-2003, 20:07
just one point when you / we had a problem did you check ntl's server status page to see if there were any problems :)
also why didnt you think of ringing c.s first to see if there were any known problems , it is freephone :tu:
1) Er, without an Internet connection I couldn't check the status page. :)
2) The number I phoned was simply the one I'd noted for Tech Support when I started with ntl. However, for future use, I'd be grateful if you could give me the best number to phone if I have a problem in future; I'll store it away in my ntl info file.
Graham F
26-11-2003, 20:07
very true stooooooooooopid me , mind you i would still ring the free number first :rolleyes: :p :p
I'm sure that ntl did/do have a service status line as well but the 0800 number escapes me at the moment :dunce:
Theodoric
26-11-2003, 20:11
With one company (not ntl) we rung up at about 4pm & waited 3 hours once (the call was important so we needed to get through as my brother needed something for work) After waiting 3 hours (lucky the phone was on loud speaker) we got a message saying all the staff had now gone home & could we please ring back tomorrow (or course, we didnââ‚ ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t) We sent a few emails & about 6 days later we finally got an answer. Thereââ‚ƚ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s the worst service we have ever had :afire: :mad: & u thought ntl was bad :)
Now that is one thing that seriously annoys me, that is when a company closes down the help line dead on the notified closing time when they know that customers have phoned up well before the closing time and are still waiting. I had Gateway do this to me on more than one occasion.
I'm sure that ntl did/do have a service status line as well but the 0800 number escapes me at the moment :dunce:
probably dropped it because it was oversubscribed. ;)
incog. :wavey:
The number I phoned was simply the one I'd noted for Tech Support when I started with ntl. However, for future use, I'd be grateful if you could give me the best number to phone if I have a problem in future; I'll store it away in my ntl info file.
0800 052 4315 for ntlworld server status line.
0800 052 2000 for fault reporting, if there is a widespread service problem there may be an automated message indicating that ntl do know there is a problem in your area that is effecting your service.
Graham F
26-11-2003, 20:21
0800 052 4315 for ntlworld server status line.
0800 052 2000 for fault reporting, if there is a widespread service problem there may be an automated message indicating that ntl do know there is a problem in your area that is effecting your service.
Thanks for that Dr P was kinda pulling my hair out trying to find the status line number here :disturbd:
scrotnig
26-11-2003, 20:27
Please tell me you aren't being serious when you say
are you trying to tell me that almost all the one million plus internet customers tried to contact ntl last night abt this fault?!?
:rofl::rofl:
Sorry, what I meant was 'what seems like every customer', certainly in these circumstances a lot clearly do ring in to technical support in Swansea, and with all the best preparations in the world, no call centre could be prepared to handle, for example, 10 times the usual call volumes at a moments notice.
My best advice to anyone who loses their connection altogether, is to try the status line first (free call), if no information there, call technical support and listen for a recorded message. If that message covers your fault, then hang up, because holding on for an advisor may take a while, and they can only tell you the same as the recorded message anyway.
Most problems that affect a large number of people are resolved PDQ.
Theodoric
26-11-2003, 20:58
0800 052 4315 for ntlworld server status line.
0800 052 2000 for fault reporting, if there is a widespread service problem there may be an automated message indicating that ntl do know there is a problem in your area that is effecting your service.
Thanks. Cut and pasted into my ntl info file.
prolific8
01-12-2003, 16:23
I once spent a combined total of 4 (1 hour - cut off, then another hour - cut off, then 2 hours bounced between every department in the company) hours waiting to speak to the right person.
Needless to say I've been put off ever calling again.
Richardr
06-12-2003, 00:11
I had a half hour wait before I was dealt with. So, is a half hour wait considered acceptable by ntl?
My last two calls to ntl have taken 36 minutes and 28 minutes respectively before they have been answered. Neither was at the time of a widespread problem (as far as I am aware)
ntl probably consider that acceptable, I don't.
Mr.Moony
06-12-2003, 00:27
My last two calls to ntl have taken 36 minutes and 28 minutes respectively before they have been answered. Neither was at the time of a widespread problem (as far as I am aware)
ntl probably consider that acceptable, I don't.
ntl are taking steps to resolve this issue. As far as my memory serves (yesterday seems a slight blurr) before that fantastic virus that everyone was well prepared for, there were always 0 calls waiting.
Ohhhh if I had a time machine. (I'd go back to see iron maiden in their first head-liner concert)
The problem with ringing with a 'fault' is that there is not 1 area that deals with issues.
Most of the time I'd ring customer services first (0800 0522 000) - queue normally 30 minutes. They do 'account' checks (which in more than 1 occasion was the reason, despite I pay all bills by DD, and are always paid), and then transfer to Tech Support in Swanswa - another 30min+ queue.
At least this way it is all a free phone call - I really object to having to pay NTL for being in their queue - even if it is a local rate number.
Perhaps that is why, on Friday, I will be a Sky+ customer ;)
paulyoung666
06-12-2003, 09:21
The problem with ringing with a 'fault' is that there is not 1 area that deals with issues.
Most of the time I'd ring customer services first (0800 0522 000) - queue normally 30 minutes. They do 'account' checks (which in more than 1 occasion was the reason, despite I pay all bills by DD, and are always paid), and then transfer to Tech Support in Swanswa - another 30min+ queue.
At least this way it is all a free phone call - I really object to having to pay NTL for being in their queue - even if it is a local rate number.
Perhaps that is why, on Friday, I will be a Sky+ customer ;)
exactly the approach i take and for the reasons you state as well ;)
Perhaps that is why, on Friday, I will be a Sky+ customer ;)
Exactly the same here - they're due round to do the install on Friday, and the magic access card arrived in the post over the weekend.
All very professional and efficient, and, I'm sorry to say, much better than the run-of-the-mill ntl experience.
Ian
Exactly the same here - they're due round to do the install on Friday, and the magic access card arrived in the post over the weekend.
All very professional and efficient, and, I'm sorry to say, much better than the run-of-the-mill ntl experience.
Ian
Of course. I'm sure they're lovely and efficient and friendly and quick when they're signing you up.... just you wait until something goes wrong though. I have had more than my fair share of HORROR stories dealing with Sky in the past... plus haven't Sky's CS all been shipped out to India or somesuch recently?
quadplay
08-12-2003, 23:10
I believe Sky's main call centres are still in Scotland, but they do have overflow/overnight and outgoing centres in India. I remember when I first got SkyDigital back in 1998 (before I lived in a cabled area), waiting one hour in a phone queue to book a reinstall because the first installer said his ladder wasn't big enough for my house! ntl's queues are quite dire right now, but new people are being trained, for tech support at least!
andygrif
09-12-2003, 12:12
I beleive that the whole appraoch to how customers are handled in each of the call centres should be re-evalued as it clearly isn't working right now (not just at ntl, but then this is the subject on discussion here).
I'm perfectly happy to be shot down in flames on this one, as it's only intended to be a topic for discussion, but here goes:
Why not have one number for all customer contact and support? I know that tech support is a revenue generating number right now, but most often it is a fault at ntl's end that causes me to call BBTS and not somrthing I have done.
If the customer had one free number to call, each call could be handled quickly and efficiently (and immidiately) via a 'receptionist' that could direct the call to the relevent next level, such as faults, BBTS, customer service, etc. Obviously depending on the level of calls of the next level, customers might experience some delay, but at least they are not then subjected to call costs whilst in a queue.
From there I think that each region should have its own tech support for internet. Quite often there are network problems in the local area, which ideally the local area should know about first. In my experience, on such occasions Swnasea may not be aware (or at least claim not to be) of these issues when calling. Localised tech support could identify these issues, make local networks people aware and potentially resolve the issue much faster.
If the localised BBTS people identify that the customer has a problem which is at their end, rather than the ntl end, then they could offer pay per incident tech support (like many companies such as Microsoft, HP, IBM do) at a reasonable cost such as £2 / £3 or customers could purchase blanket cover for a fee - both of these could be added to their phone bills every month, or pay as you go style billing via credit or debit cards. Such calls could be handled from a centralised point, be that Swansea or be that Bangalore - no doubt this would be a more efficient manner to handle such calls - without clogging up the phone lines for people with network faults.
Anyway....I could go on, but you get the general gist of what I'm saying....open up the floor.....
Mr.Moony
09-12-2003, 12:28
If the customer had one free number to call, each call could be handled quickly and efficiently (and immidiately) via a 'receptionist' that could direct the call to the relevent next level, such as faults, BBTS, customer service, etc. Obviously depending on the level of calls of the next level, customers might experience some delay, but at least they are not then subjected to call costs whilst in a queue.
Yes, a technical support free phone number. Thats not going to generate more calls. :dozey:
DrAwesome
09-12-2003, 13:16
There is a simple solution (and i have suggested this before) to cut down waiting times which would ease the congestion and would benefit the customer.
As soon as you join the queue your given a number and an estimated time when your call will be answered, as an option to select a call back (your phone rings your still in the queue) when your number gets to a lower number in the queue (which means the customer is not holding the phone getting ear ache for 10-20mins) the added bonus to this solution is that if a customer happens to be number 60 when he/she joins the queue they would obvously choose to call back later.
andygrif
09-12-2003, 15:31
Yes, a technical support free phone number. Thats not going to generate more calls. :dozey:
With respect, I don't think you're thinking outside the box (removes David Brent hat).
If you can back up the fact that a freephone line will generate more calls, then please give examples. Personally I do not believe it will. Why? Becuase I don't want to talk to the people in tech support, unless I have a problem. It's not like I'm going to call you up and talk about the weather is it?
Look at the customers' point of view. Why should I have to spend an hour on hold, paying for the call, to be told that the fault is at your end after all? A lesser person than I might think of that as extortion or fraud!
My way offers customers with problems with their settings and so on, the opportunity of quality paid for service on an incedent basis.
My way offers customers who have connection problems less of an INSULT when phoning up to be told your system is falling apart again. The freephone aspect is a customer retention tool, not something designed to increase volume of calls.
Well, I'd have to agree that a freephone number would generate more calls. If I knew the tech support line was free I'd ring it for a small fault, whereas I'd possibly just leave it and wait till the morning to see if it had magically fixed itself (9 / 10 it does) before ringing the pay for number.
However, I do believe that the call should be free... but from econimical PoV I can see why it's not.
Mr.Moony
09-12-2003, 16:34
Personally I do not believe it will.
Ohh im sorry didnt realise you took technical calls for technical support.
Hell Fighter
09-12-2003, 17:32
Ohh im sorry didnt realise you took technical calls for technical support.
When was Cable Modem Technical Support a freefone number?
You clearly have experience of the days when calling TS was free ;)
andygrif
09-12-2003, 17:43
Ohh im sorry didnt realise you took technical calls for technical support.
Well thanks for your constructive response. Personally I am not sure that the people in tech support handle that many either, hence the ridiculous wait that so many of the people who pay your wages have endure every time your hugely ineffective system blows up again. :nono:
At least I am trying to come up with better solutions...what are you doing in your call centre? Reading the Sport?
andygrif
09-12-2003, 17:57
Well, I'd have to agree that a freephone number would generate more calls. If I knew the tech support line was free I'd ring it for a small fault, whereas I'd possibly just leave it and wait till the morning to see if it had magically fixed itself (9 / 10 it does) before ringing the pay for number.
However, I do believe that the call should be free... but from econimical PoV I can see why it's not.
I see your point, and you may be correct. However from a customer's point of view it's a terrible enditement that customers think this way for a service costing £300 a year.
Mr.Moony
09-12-2003, 18:54
Well thanks for your constructive response. Personally I am not sure that the people in tech support handle that many either, hence the ridiculous wait that so many of the people who pay your wages have endure every time your hugely ineffective system blows up again. :nono:
At least I am trying to come up with better solutions...what are you doing in your call centre? Reading the Sport?
Well untill you sit here on the end of the phones, what you know = Nothing.
Keep Trying
Ohhh an Btw our systems arent handled by NTL (Duhh)
I see your point, and you may be correct. However from a customer's point of view it's a terrible enditement that customers think this way for a service costing £300 a year.
I wasn't disagreeing with the fact that I think it should be a freefone number. Just unfortunately the world isn't perfect :/
Most of the tech support lines I have to deal through work are (as I look along the list) 0870 or 0845. 0870 really p*ss me off! Thankfully the company pays for the phone calls and not me ;)
I'm sure I've spent 4 hours trying to get through. :grind: Didn't help.
An hour's wait certainly used to be "typical", half an hour was a really good day. Thankfully I've had little cause to ring tech support recently.
I object to having to pay for a nice long phonecall to try and argue with someone at NTL that they seem to have flipped that magic switch that sets my account to "not working". Whilst being told several dozen times to toggle random dialup settings reboot my machine etc.
Looking back on my calls to TS etc, I can't help but notice how many times the call was fixed by 'deleting your account' and 'setting it up again'!!!!!!!!!!!! sounds like an ntl fault to me, am I wrong???
When I think of how long I waited on hold, paying for the call only to be told that basically it's ntl's fault that my access is down I feel like a total plonker!
what a scam, lets charge 'em £400 per year for a service hten jiggle the plugs and settings to make them phone us on our own phone network to report the problem...oo...ooooo... I know, lets keep them on hold for fifty mins before answering just to run the bill up before we plug them back in!
can't believe that I put up with it! my company offewrs a 4000 bit encryption service for email, with each fault customers get a service credit equal to a quarter of a years subscription, if ntl had this system we would all be millionairs!!!!!!!!
sorry for spe3lling,,,,, terribly , terribly drunk at the time +)
Mr.Moony
10-12-2003, 00:22
See now this is how calls would go up.
Mr.Jones here cant connect to the internet. He may currently think 'hmm its probably a local outage, il give it a couple of hours then ring'
However Mr.Jones knows he doesnt have to pay for this call, so its probably worth ringing up the free technical support number.
/40 minutes on hold 'Ohhh it was a local outage, thats ok I dont pay for this anyway'
Mr.Jones has just caused Mrs.Maple who cant receive her emails an extra wait.
Looking back on my calls to TS etc, I can't help but notice how many times the call was fixed by 'deleting your account' and 'setting it up again'!!!!!!!!!!!! sounds like an ntl fault to me, am I wrong???
When I think of how long I waited on hold, paying for the call only to be told that basically it's ntl's fault that my access is down I feel like a total plonker!
what a scam, lets charge 'em £400 per year for a service hten jiggle the plugs and settings to make them phone us on our own phone network to report the problem...oo...ooooo... I know, lets keep them on hold for fifty mins before answering just to run the bill up before we plug them back in!
Sounds pretty much like my story on dialup, they claimed that since I had gone through the registration process I now had to ring the premium rate line. They also cut off my previous 1p a minute (which was one of the main reasons I first went with NTL) so I had to use other ISPs at the higher rate. This went on for months with me generally being told to ring the premium rate line or fobbed off and told my dialup settings/password/colour of socks where wrong. When you tell them "you are the twelveth person who has told me to tick or untick that checkbox today" they don't believe you, just do the same steps over and over as though it were part of some magical ceremony to make things work.
After my eventually getting in touch with oftel when it became clear NTL had no intention of actually connecting me, NTL suddenly found my account was disabled at their end - flip the switch oh look it works. Cue sudden concerned phone calls and letters from NTL.
I wonder how much money NTL made on my phone calls to them and other ISPs during those months ?
/40 minutes on hold 'Ohhh it was a local outage, thats ok I dont pay for this anyway'
I certainly wouldn't waste 40 minutes of my life being listening to NTL hold music if I thought there was any way of avoiding it,free or not.
I imagine that there's a large number of really pointless calls, in the same way there's are pointless 999 calls.... :idea: hey I've had a great idea.... lets charge people £1 a minute for ringing 999 that'll put the spoof callers off.
andygrif
10-12-2003, 12:32
Well untill you sit here on the end of the phones, what you know = Nothing.
Keep Trying
Ohhh an Btw our systems arent handled by NTL (Duhh)
And this was relevant to my post how? It is exactly this kind of attitude that is directly linked to the hugely mediocre service offered by BBTS.
You seem to think I know nothing about how call centres work, yet you know nothing about me, what I do or what I can bring to the party. I do believe to some extent in the saying 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' but I don't think even you sat there with your never ending stream of callers in the queue could honestly say 'it ain't broke'.
See now this is how calls would go up.
Mr.Jones here cant connect to the internet. He may currently think 'hmm its probably a local outage, il give it a couple of hours then ring'
However Mr.Jones knows he doesnt have to pay for this call, so its probably worth ringing up the free technical support number.
/40 minutes on hold 'Ohhh it was a local outage, thats ok I dont pay for this anyway'
Mr.Jones has just caused Mrs.Maple who cant receive her emails an extra wait.
Which is exactly how my previous suggestion would work, becuase the 'reception' would handle this, having access to such outage information and could inform Mr Jones of the problem. Mrs Maple therefore gets put straight through to TS even quicker.
In addition, don't forget that there is already a freephone status line - which usually updated so long after the outage begins to render it useless.
Stuart W
10-12-2003, 12:39
just one point when you / we had a problem did you check ntl's server status page to see if there were any problems :)
also why didnt you think of ringing c.s first to see if there were any known problems , it is freephone :tu:
Sorry, had to say something....
This realy get's my goat! :mad:
I turn on the PC and can't get on the web. Some wise arse asks me to check the on-line status page. HOW?? :afire:
As for ringing CS... they tell you to try the website (!) then tell you that you need to speak to cable modem support as it's not their 'area'. :afire:
Mr.Moony
10-12-2003, 13:36
You seem to think I know nothing about how call centres work, yet you know nothing about me, what I do or what I can bring to the party.
If ur that great im sure you have a high paid job already then, and your very good if you have time to think you can help improve the ntl infrastructure also.
/salutes
Which is exactly how my previous suggestion would work, becuase the 'reception' would handle this, having access to such outage information and could inform Mr Jones of the problem. Mrs Maple therefore gets put straight through to TS even quicker.
Reminds me of a virus team we once had. They were swamped in calls, then if the customer was clean they would have an even longer wait while they get transfered. There would have to be so many receptionist, it would make less TS/Cmr Service Agents. Unless...they could pre-record outages....my god thats great. (ohh wait some1 thought of it)
Anyway this is a discussion that will never end in my opinion. Im giving up.
andygrif
10-12-2003, 14:21
If ur that great im sure you have a high paid job already then, and your very good if you have time to think you can help improve the ntl infrastructure also.
/salutes
I do alright, thanks for your concern. I'm a senior manager for a service related business, so actually I do understand many of the issues at stake. Yes I do have time to think about how to make things better, that's my job - I am always looking at improving my customers' experience with interaction with my employees. That's the difference between us, I spend time coming up with improvements and listening to people who without anything constructive to add inventing reasons why it won't work. But I think my results speak for themselves.
Reminds me of a virus team we once had. They were swamped in calls, then if the customer was clean they would have an even longer wait while they get transfered. There would have to be so many receptionist, it would make less TS/Cmr Service Agents. Unless...they could pre-record outages....my god thats great. (ohh wait some1 thought of it)
Anyway this is a discussion that will never end in my opinion. Im giving up.
How is this relevant? If you read my suggestion again, you will see that I am suggesting local 'receptionists' that handle low-level and simple Q&A's and direct to centralised speciallists like your good self. So far you are the only person who has told me it won't work but you haven't given any tangelable reasons as to why that is so.
With respect, I come into contact with people like you every day of my life - and I understand you fear change. Whilst it's the customers who will ultimately benefit from properly managed change, so will you and your colleagues because you can be properly focussed in your areas of expertise, without having to worry about people with network problems that you can't help clogging up the phone queues for you.
And the most important thing, without wishing to sound arrogant, just becuase you don't agree with me doesn't mean I'm not right!
ok, a few points if i may?...but first let me start by saying that no, for course i dont think a 40 min wait is acceptable. one thing ntl HAVE done to help resolve that is take on a whole load more staff in tech support, who are just finishing their training now....
anyway...
If the customer had one free number to call, each call could be handled quickly and efficiently (and immidiately) via a 'receptionist' that could direct the call to the relevent next level, such as faults, BBTS, customer service, etc. Obviously depending on the level of calls of the next level, customers might experience some delay, but at least they are not then subjected to call costs whilst in a queue.
ummm...one number? most franchises now have 0800 0522000 - you call that number and you can go through to customer services, faults or tech support. you press option tech support and you get put into our q....so good idea - its already being done...
From there I think that each region should have its own tech support for internet. Quite often there are network problems in the local area, which ideally the local area should know about first. In my experience, on such occasions Swnasea may not be aware (or at least claim not to be) of these issues when calling. Localised tech support could identify these issues, make local networks people aware and potentially resolve the issue much faster
tech support have had just about the same access to faults as customer services, and have now just got a new, apparantly better system, of finding any faults in that customers area by entering their postcode. AFAIK the whle faults system is done on a national level, and as for local franchises telling local faults.....tech support share the same building as the fault management center - the people who deal with these faults - and there are processes to pass on any possible issues developing onto them.
As an aside, call trends are monitored comming into tech support on a real time basis - so say a pile of people start calling from nottingham regarding connection issues, with no known faults there, that will get picked up and investigated. So if you like, tech support would be the FIRST to know of any developing faults.
If you can back up the fact that a freephone line will generate more calls, then please give examples. Personally I do not believe it will. Why? Becuase I don't want to talk to the people in tech support, unless I have a problem. It's not like I'm going to call you up and talk about the weather is it?
I can back that up. before working in broadband tech support, i used to do narrowband (dialup) support, back in the day when it was £1 per min. you generally KNEW they had a proper issue when they called up as they would have tried themselves first to fix the problem rather than just say "oh, its not working, ill call tech support"
ALOT of calls we take CAN be fixed by the customer themselves, if they work through it, and read avaliable help options. a surprising ammount of people are afraid to do a thing to their pc tho without somone telling them exactly what to do - try it! its not gonna bite you! :D
as for people calling up about the weather - i had a lady last week call up to ask how to find out about the best heat for geraniums.....
Look at the customers' point of view. Why should I have to spend an hour on hold, paying for the call, to be told that the fault is at your end after all? A lesser person than I might think of that as extortion or fraud!
im not sure, but if it was a definate ntl fault, you would have a case for getting that knocked off your phone bill by customer services - i know that was the case on the premium line
My way offers customers who have connection problems less of an INSULT when phoning up to be told your system is falling apart again
a little while ago i made a record of the sort of calls i got on a particular day
i took 32 calls.
2 were faults with the STB
1 was an outage
1 was giving a customers pid number (something he had lost)
6 were finding out customers email details as they had lost/not written them down
and 21 were altering peoples pc settings to get them back online/better thier connection/setting up outlook express
so out of 32 calls, 3 were things that were ntl issues. ok, admittedly that was a little - and only a little mind you - low, ntl faults wise, but even if you x4 it, that still leaves you with 2/3 of the calls comming in being related to the customers pc. please dont be INSULTED by us assuming its your pc....its just a fact that most calls we take ARE to do with the customers pc, and so thats where we generally start to look for the problem.....
Personally I am not sure that the people in tech support handle that many either
we have strict guidlines on how long the average call is supposed to be, and if we dont make those criteria we get in trouble.... - last week i sat in a disciplinary with a collegue who consistently failed to meet them - and we are not talking by too much either. he is not a bad tech at all, but did his job thoroughly, to make sure that customer did not call back..... :dozey:
anyway...think this is turning into a thesis :)
andygrif
10-12-2003, 14:52
Constructive post, thanks.:tu:
ummm...one number? most franchises now have 0800 0522000 - you call that number and you can go through to customer services, faults or tech support. you press option tech support and you get put into our q....so good idea - its already being done...
I can't get through to Broadband Tech support from that number. Plus by screening via a human being and low level call handling, it has been proven that the people who are grouped by area of expertise are more focussed, more efficient and have high levels of morale than those who arean't.
I don't disagree with any of the facts you present, and I am sure you do have methods of trend tracking and so on....but the one thing is paramount:
For the customer....it isn't working
I can back that up. before working in broadband tech support, i used to do narrowband (dialup) support, back in the day when it was £1 per min. you generally KNEW they had a proper issue when they called up as they would have tried themselves first to fix the problem rather than just say "oh, its not working, ill call tech support"
ALOT of calls we take CAN be fixed by the customer themselves, if they work through it, and read avaliable help options. a surprising ammount of people are afraid to do a thing to their pc tho without somone telling them exactly what to do - try it! its not gonna bite you! :D
as for people calling up about the weather - i had a lady last week call up to ask how to find out about the best heat for geraniums.....
I'm sorry, that is not a reason for a customer not to call, just becuase you don't consider their problem to be 'real'. All problems are real to the customer - and the long term damage of them suffering from such problems is that they will get fed up and cancel. I know I've come close on many occasions. How many problems are not being tracked becuase customers having already dealt with the level of service on the £1 per minute line never call back? How do you track that?
im not sure, but if it was a definate ntl fault, you would have a case for getting that knocked off your phone bill by customer services - i know that was the case on the premium line
What? Every time? At the time this is all well and good, but it's more hassle than it is worth - whilst still being a big bone of contention. To have spent an hour in a queue to be told there is something wrong, following a call to the status line that tells me nothing is wrong, the concept of sitting in another call queue to claim my 2 quid back is silly. But when you add up how much extra month ntl has leeched from my account becuase of network problems I take offence at it.
a little while ago i made a record of the sort of calls i got on a particular day
i took 32 calls.
2 were faults with the STB
1 was an outage
1 was giving a customers pid number (something he had lost)
6 were finding out customers email details as they had lost/not written them down
and 21 were altering peoples pc settings to get them back online/better thier connection/setting up outlook express
so out of 32 calls, 3 were things that were ntl issues. ok, admittedly that was a little - and only a little mind you - low, ntl faults wise, but even if you x4 it, that still leaves you with 2/3 of the calls comming in being related to the customers pc. please dont be INSULTED by us assuming its your pc....its just a fact that most calls we take ARE to do with the customers pc, and so thats where we generally start to look for the problem.....
Which is again why my system would work, as it would operate on a pay per incident support method.
we have strict guidlines on how long the average call is supposed to be, and if we dont make those criteria we get in trouble.... - last week i sat in a disciplinary with a collegue who consistently failed to meet them - and we are not talking by too much either. he is not a bad tech at all, but did his job thoroughly, to make sure that customer did not call back..... :dozey:
anyway...think this is turning into a thesis :)
All of which unfortunately re-affirms the fact that ntl are not overly interesting in how customers are treated. This is probably one of the reasons why staff in these call centres are so demotivated and take their frustrations out on the customers. Sad isn't it.
Mr.Moony
10-12-2003, 14:54
With respect, I come into contact with people like you every day of my life - and I understand you fear change.
I fear no change
Plus by screening via a human being and low level call handling, it has been proven that the people who are grouped by area of expertise are more focussed, more efficient and have high levels of morale than those who arean't.
screening and low level call handling?? :erm: the virus team was mentioned earlier - that was screening. you have NO IDEA how many irate customers we had, when we told them "no, sorry, this isnt tech support, we are just doing a few checks on your pc, then well pass you onto ANOTHER call q to get your problem fixed".....trust me, ive been there - that screening idea does not work :erm:
also, make your mind up ;) earlier you said that the local franchises should do the tech support - tho they are only really customer services. so they would become a jack of all trades - hardly "grouped by area of expertise". i agree with you - people are more focused that way - hence tech support is all grouped together in swansea.
I'm sorry, that is not a reason for a customer not to call, just becuase you don't consider their problem to be 'real'. All problems are real to the customer - and the long term damage of them suffering from such problems is that they will get fed up and cancel.
very true, but this thread is about q times. the point i was trying to make is that whilst the customer undoubtedly has a problem, they are often able to fix themselves if they just tired. if they did that, they would fix the problem, they wouldnt have to call us, the call q's would drop.
What? Every time? At the time this is all well and good, but it's more hassle than it is worth - whilst still being a big bone of contention. To have spent an hour in a queue to be told there is something wrong, following a call to the status line that tells me nothing is wrong, the concept of sitting in another call queue to claim my 2 quid back is silly. But when you add up how much extra month ntl has leeched from my account becuase of network problems I take offence at it.
I KNOW you will get reimbursed for network problems - but i cant really see how you can take offence at them taking money out of your account if you refuse to tell them you have had a problem with your service??
Which is again why my system would work, as it would operate on a pay per incident support method.
I SHUDDER to think of the average customers response if we turned around and said "yea, we can fix that, but it'll cost ya".
at the moment we will do all we can to get that customer back online, or improve his service. even if its because they thought they were bill gates and played with the settings of their pc or done something themselves to knacker their connection. often that means an overhaul of most of the settings in their pc. all for a local rate call. i personally dont think thats extortion......
At local call rate 30 minutes in a queue is only 30p anyways, hardly extortionate as you say!
Try ringing a support line that costs you £1/minute ;)
andygrif
11-12-2003, 12:45
screening and low level call handling?? :erm: the virus team was mentioned earlier - that was screening. you have NO IDEA how many irate customers we had, when we told them "no, sorry, this isnt tech support, we are just doing a few checks on your pc, then well pass you onto ANOTHER call q to get your problem fixed".....trust me, ive been there - that screening idea does not work :erm:
That was specific to a problem, which I have to say ntl didn't handle terribly well in the initial stages. This is irrelivant to the bigger picture.
also, make your mind up ;) earlier you said that the local franchises should do the tech support - tho they are only really customer services. so they would become a jack of all trades - hardly "grouped by area of expertise". i agree with you - people are more focused that way - hence tech support is all grouped together in swansea.
You have misunderstood what I said. Local network related tech support should be handled on a local basis. Centralised incedent related tech support should be grouped.
very true, but this thread is about q times. the point i was trying to make is that whilst the customer undoubtedly has a problem, they are often able to fix themselves if they just tired. if they did that, they would fix the problem, they wouldnt have to call us, the call q's would drop.
Yes it is about queue times, but the two are linked. Becuase ntl's service is so appalling at such regular intervals, the costs that your customers have to endure are unacceptable. If I could get through instantly at any time, I doubt anyone would be saying that they object to the costs of a local call. But this is in the perfect world, and I have to say that bar a couple of occasions you and your colleagues have not got to my call in any period less than 45 minutes. Like I said before, this is unacceptable. I don't blame you for this personally, I blame the system. The system doesn't work. The system needs to change. If you don't think tried and tested systems like I have suggested work, then why don't you come up with a better one?
I'm sick and tired of hearing the same negativity, but I never hear any suggestions from the people who claim to know thatg all this stuff 'won't work' never telling me what would work.
I KNOW you will get reimbursed for network problems - but i cant really see how you can take offence at them taking money out of your account if you refuse to tell them you have had a problem with your service??
Yes I know I would too, if I wanted to. Like I said before, it's not worth the hassle. I've tried it, it's a hassle, it's my decision to not have any more ntl induced stress in my life.
I SHUDDER to think of the average customers response if we turned around and said "yea, we can fix that, but it'll cost ya".
Other much more successful organisations operate on such a model. Why do you think they are much more successful?
at the moment we will do all we can to get that customer back online, or improve his service. even if its because they thought they were bill gates and played with the settings of their pc or done something themselves to knacker their connection. often that means an overhaul of most of the settings in their pc. all for a local rate call. i personally dont think thats extortion......
And again, I'll say this is why a pay per incedent service is a better idea for pc related or setting related issues. If I started twiddling my settings and couldn't get on the net as a result, I'd be quite happy to cough up a few quid to know I could get it fixed.
Right now, I have cough up a few quid, waste an hour of my life just to be told that there's nothing can be done anyway!
You see my point?
Ntl london customer services, Faults and broadband tech support always have a holding time of between 1-2 hours :afire: of the most mind boggling music you have ever heard where do they get that crap from! But they way the company is run they would feel this is a acceptable holding time
And again, I'll say this is why a pay per incedent service is a better idea for pc related or setting related issues. If I started twiddling my settings and couldn't get on the net as a result, I'd be quite happy to cough up a few quid to know I could get it fixed.
Right now, I have cough up a few quid, waste an hour of my life just to be told that there's nothing can be done anyway!
You see my point?
Surely this would give the impression that ntl officially support problems with your computer, that you have made?
Mr.Moony
12-12-2003, 00:04
I think this is a correct way people think of the ntl management :
Manager 1 : 'ohhh my theres only 3 people in the queue'
Manager 2 :'My word we'd better let go some more agents'
Manager 1 : 'Quite'
Manager 2 : 'Do you need a 50 dollar bill to light that my friend ?'
Idiots. Untill andygrif sits next to me on the phone he can continue talking the talk.
The current head magement is a very down to earth person, and coming down the earth is what allot of people need to do. Visions are nothing but their name and for someone who hasnt even sat in an ntl call centre yet thinks he is the answer to every problem quite frankly needs to stop tripping, stop drinking the coffee and worry about their own affairs.
andygrif
12-12-2003, 00:11
I think this is a correct way people think of the ntl management :
Manager 1 : 'ohhh my theres only 3 people in the queue'
Manager 2 :'My word we'd better let go some more agents'
Manager 1 : 'Quite'
Manager 2 : 'Do you need a 50 dollar bill to light that my friend ?'
Idiots. Untill andygrif sits next to me on the phone he can continue talking the talk.
The current head magement is a very down to earth person, and coming down the earth is what allot of people need to do. Visions are nothing but their name and for someone who hasnt even sat in an ntl call centre yet thinks he is the answer to every problem quite frankly needs to stop tripping, stop drinking the coffee and worry about their own affairs.
And until ntl employees start treating the customers as something more than an irritation, then the problem will remain.
I'll bow out now, agreeing to disagree with you.
And until ntl employees start treating the customers as something more than an irritation, then the problem will remain.
I'll bow out now, agreeing to disagree with you.
I think you will find most ntl employees do not see customers as an irrititation.
Unless, of course, they are irritating.
Examples of which include insults, patronising attitudes, know it all mentality and may be found in a few posts immediately above.
threadbare
12-12-2003, 10:24
Right now, I have cough up a few quid, waste an hour of my life just to be told that there's nothing can be done anyway!
ppl are not going to like paying for a service and paying to get their computers fixed when all they see is an ntl problem, even if it is their pc that is shagged.
Ok, just a few points from me, If I may be so bold.
Firstly - my background is in TS for Unix systems, I have been doing this for a long time, and feel qualified to comment on these issues. :angel:
The idea of call screening can (and in my firm does) work - but only if done correctly.
If you have all calls coming to a central group of "receptionists" (although I feel that this is not a good word to use, as these people will need basic troubleshooting skills) who can clear the real simple calls straight away (yes sir, there is an outage in your area - our engineers are working on it, or you can't see if it is plugged in - why not turn on the light - oh you have no power - thanks for calling :) ) and ensure that the other issues go to the correct area - BB support or Dialup, etc.
The trick with this system is to ensure that the customer is aware of how it works, and can understand the value of the extra 2 minutes talking to the "receptionist" :D
Whether this would work in the NTL environment - I cannot say - I have never worked for NTL (and in all probability never will ;) ), but the idea in itself is sound and proven.
That said - the current system does have issues - seen from both th TS and the Customer side - unless NTL suddenly get twice (or 3x etc) as many staff, there will always be occasions where you don't have an agent free - especially if there is an outage developing.
The customer has to wait, and gets a little cranky - the TS gets a little bored of saying "yes, there is an outage in your area - our engineers are investigating this - please check the server status line for further updates".
This is not unusual - it happens in any number of support teams. Thats why TS people tend to change jobs every few years - at least you get to deal with a different set of problems/people.
At the end of the day - the support is free - you can ring the freephone number or use 151 (I think it is 151 - but I'm sure someone will let me know if I am wrong).
If I was paying for the support directly, then I would expect a higher level of service. As I am not (bar a few pence here and there on a phone call) I will live with what we get.
<slight rant - sorry>
Why must we resort to personal slurs and abuse - this is a forum for exchanging ideas and support, not growing egos and attitudes.
I have had my fair share (some would say more than my fair share) of the cutomer type that we all know and loath - from the "I have been working on these machines since before you were born, and I'm telling you that I don't need to run that diagnostic because that isn't the problem" to the "ls -l , is that minus with a capital m? :grind:", and have found that the best thing to do is just get on with it - just because they sound condescending doesn't necessarily mean that they don't have a point (occasionally they proved to be right, and I was wrong :naughty: )
</rant>
edit :notopic: wow - just realised this was my 100th post - what a away to reach a century ;)
Now that is one thing that seriously annoys me, that is when a company closes down the help line dead on the notified closing time when they know that customers have phoned up well before the closing time and are still waiting. I had Gateway do this to me on more than one occasion.
I've had similarly bad experiences with Gateway, which is why I took my business elsewhere. That said with NTL, I've (on more than once occasion) been put on hold for 40+ minutes, put it on the speaker and when it is finally answered I heard "Hello?...click" before I get a chance to move the handset the disance between the table and my mouth.
:grind:
Weeb
ppl are not going to like paying for a service and paying to get their computers fixed when all they see is an ntl problem, even if it is their pc that is shagged.
I've lost count of the number of times NTL has told me my PC is shagged only to have it be NTL's fault every single time (and that includes the time the modem dialup number had a recorded message on it saying the number is busy). I had to explain to the nice lady that answered the phone that my computer cannot possibly be putting the recorded message there - after several hours spent on the phone it was eventually conceded there was a fault at their end (this was after my dialup hadn't worked for about a week).
It really is not helpful the way lots of computer error messages are phrased to blame the user.
At least the cable modem actually works so now I only have to ring up when I'm randomly overcharged.
Weeb
If you have all calls coming to a central group of "receptionists" (although I feel that this is not a good word to use, as these people will need basic troubleshooting skills) who can clear the real simple calls straight away (yes sir, there is an outage in your area - our engineers are working on it, or you can't see if it is plugged in - why not turn on the light - oh you have no power - thanks for calling :) ) and ensure that the other issues go to the correct area - BB support or Dialup, etc.
The trick with this system is to ensure that the customer is aware of how it works, and can understand the value of the extra 2 minutes talking to the "receptionist" :D
Hey... why can't NTL have the person who answers the phone tell me there's an outage and it is being worked on? That would make them useful or something. :)
(In case there's anyone who hasn't guessed yet I am very very very unhappy with the service I've had from NTL in the past, though I must concede things have gotten better in recent years).
Weeb
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