Not really knowing

[greencreeper]

Something interesting and depressing I've recently stumbled upon is the ability to know without really knowing. Take my boss as an example. Being doing the job years so she knows that problem A has possible solutions 1 2 and 3. She doesn't understand the problem - why it's occurred - and she doesn't understand how the solutions actually solve the problem. She can't analyse and determine if one solution is more likely to work than another, or if one solution is more appropriate. It's depressing because it means that she can fix most things but never really know how. I value the knowing - the understanding. I like to explore things and understand, even if no solution is reach. The process is more important that the end. Until now, it's never really occurred to me that such people exist, or even that it was possible to have a totally ignorant ability to be competent. Does explain, though, why so many idiots make it so such high positions in life.

[timewarrior2001]

Something interesting and depressing I've recently stumbled upon is the ability to know without really knowing. Take my boss as an example. Being doing the job years so she knows that problem A has possible solutions 1 2 and 3. She doesn't understand the problem - why it's occurred - and she doesn't understand how the solutions actually solve the problem. She can't analyse and determine if one solution is more likely to work than another, or if one solution is more appropriate. It's depressing because it means that she can fix most things but never really know how. I value the knowing - the understanding. I like to explore things and understand, even if no solution is reach. The process is more important that the end. Until now, it's never really occurred to me that such people exist, or even that it was possible to have a totally ignorant ability to be competent. Does explain, though, why so many idiots make it so such high positions in life.


Bingo, you finaly awoke to the stnech of corporate coffee :D

[Ramrod]

It's depressing because it means that she can fix most things but never really know how. I value the knowing - the understanding. I like to explore things and understand, even if no solution is reach. The process is more important that the end. Until now, it's never really occurred to me that such people exist, or even that it was possible to have a totally ignorant ability to be competent. Does explain, though, why so many idiots make it so such high positions in life.It doesn't necessarily mean she's an idiot. She may (and probably has) have accumulated a large store of what is known as tacit, subsidiary awareness and personal knowledge (task-conscious or acquisition learning)....often called experience. This type of knowledge is often accumulated unconsciously but is readily accessed when needed.....but the person may not know how they know. :)

[greencreeper]

It doesn't necessarily mean she's an idiot. She may (and probably has) have accumulated a large store of what is known as tacit, subsidiary awareness and personal knowledge (task-conscious or acquisition learning)....often called experience. This type of knowledge is often accumulated unconsciously but is readily accessed when needed.
Idiots are very rare things. Would never label someone an idiot unless they really were. Intelligence is something that comes in various types. My boss is just not someone who understands IT. She does have a short concentration span - that much I have noticed :D My dad's very good at working with wood - building things. His reading and writing skills are very poor though. I never got any of those genes. Give me two bits of wood and in 10 minutes I'll be wailing because of a splinter. I think my emotional intelligence is pretty good, but my ability to be political and tactful (aka knowing when to keep your yapper shut) is very poor. I'm always putting my foot in it or saying what I think without holding back.

[Graham M]

I'm always putting my foot in it or saying what I think without holding back.

Wow! I don't feel so alone anymore, thanks mate :)

[Ramrod]

I'm always putting my foot in it or saying what I think without holding back.Ah....that'll be the Aspergers....:D

[Graham M]

Ah....that'll be the Aspergers....:D

Freaky really, I just read the Wikipedia Article on Asperger's (never really looked into it before) and I show most of the signs :disturbd::erm:

[injuneer]

Something interesting and depressing I've recently stumbled upon is the ability to know without really knowing. Take my boss as an example. Being doing the job years so she knows that problem A has possible solutions 1 2 and 3. She doesn't understand the problem - why it's occurred - and she doesn't understand how the solutions actually solve the problem. She can't analyse and determine if one solution is more likely to work than another, or if one solution is more appropriate. It's depressing because it means that she can fix most things but never really know how. I value the knowing - the understanding. I like to explore things and understand, even if no solution is reach. The process is more important that the end. Until now, it's never really occurred to me that such people exist, or even that it was possible to have a totally ignorant ability to be competent. Does explain, though, why so many idiots make it so such high positions in life.

I thought this was just normal behaviour for modern management types? Just watch the Apprentice on BBC ! :rolleyes:

Greencreeper, are you an engineer by chance? Most engineers have a logical thought process which comes from understanding how things work, a lot of management types are just good Bullsh*tters which gets them up the ladder!!

[Stuart]

Something interesting and depressing I've recently stumbled upon is the ability to know without really knowing. Take my boss as an example. Being doing the job years so she knows that problem A has possible solutions 1 2 and 3. She doesn't understand the problem - why it's occurred - and she doesn't understand how the solutions actually solve the problem. She can't analyse and determine if one solution is more likely to work than another, or if one solution is more appropriate. It's depressing because it means that she can fix most things but never really know how. I value the knowing - the understanding. I like to explore things and understand, even if no solution is reach. The process is more important that the end. Until now, it's never really occurred to me that such people exist, or even that it was possible to have a totally ignorant ability to be competent. Does explain, though, why so many idiots make it so such high positions in life.

I know a lot of people who know a lot about one or two subjects, but almost nothing about subjects not connected to their speciality. A lot of the academics I work with are like this. There is one ex-researcher I know that actually used to write software for massively-parallel computers (10 CPUs and up), especially Itanium based (yes, someone does write software for it) unix systems, yet show her a Windows-based PC that won't connect to the network, and she wouldn't have a clue where to start looking.

To give an idea of how qualified she is, she was awarded a Doctorate in Software Engineering at 24..

[cookie_365]

Greencreeper, have a look at some of the stuff on the web about learning styles

e.g.

http://www.ldpride.net/learningstyles.MI.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learning_styles

http://www.businessballs.com/kolblearningstyles.htm

Your boss sounds like a pragmatist - she can recognise when there's a problem, identify a range of solutions, and apply a solution to fix the problem. What's so depressing about that? That's what her job is! She's sounds like she's a good manager because she can solve problems.

You sound like a cross between a theorist and a reflector - mostly a reflector I'd say. You like to sit back and think about situations - maybe too much? You say: 'I like to explore things and understand, even if no solution is reached' - not great management potential there ;).

Is there a problem with the way she's working? Do you think she's choosing OK options when she should be choosing better ones? If so, help her out. Offer to spend half an hour or so to come up with some pros and cons for each of the possible solutions. (Any more and she'll just lose patience). Don't bother explaining how they work - she's not interested - except in a broad background sense.

Feed back the info in practical terms she'll understand - solution A will save us about 100 support calls a month at 10 minutes each, that's £X employee costs we can spend on development, solution B will save us 10 calls a month but will add extra functionality at a value to the client of £Y a unit to the product, blah blah blah.

I remember when the railways were privatised, and loads of people moaned about how few railway engineers got on the boards running the companies. Well duh! Privatisation was a crap idea, but not for those reasons. You want good engineers engineering, and good managers managing. The last thing you want is good engineers as bad managers, and good managers as bad engineers. There are a few people who are good at both, but very few.

[Angua]

At the end of the day your Boss actually makes a decision and from that decision the majority will know where they are and what is expected of them. My boss doesn't always take the plunge to make a decision and tends to be a bit wishy washy at times which is very frustrating.

In a large organisation a variety of skills are needed and sometimes an analytical view is needed othertimes procrasination may occasionally be useful. One vital cog is someone who is organised.

[Maggy]

. One vital cog is someone who is organised.

Oh you weren't calling me...:erm:

[timewarrior2001]

As with most management, you dont need to be able to do the job to manage the people that can do the job.
Thats the way things work where I am. I do support, my boss runs the section of the business I work in, he doesnt tell me how to do my job i dont tell him how do his. Idiot only comes into it when one or the other makes a monumental cockup and then through idiotic tendencies makes it worse instead of rectifying the fault.

What my boss does do is encourage me to branch out, currently I dont do tech support, I'm an analyst atm. my boss is coaching me, he is using my skills to work in a slightly different area and get the results he needs.

Either way i get paid the same, I dont really care.

[Angua]

. One vital cog is someone who is organised.
Oh you weren't calling me...:erm:

But it could be you ;)

[greencreeper]

Ah....that'll be the Aspergers....:D
:shocked: Cheek of it! :bsmack: :D


I thought this was just normal behaviour for modern management types? Just watch the Apprentice on BBC ! :rolleyes:
It's a painful show at times :D You're probably right about modern management, but my boss was just one example.

Greencreeper, are you an engineer by chance?
Well, let's just say that if I were, my bridges would more than wobble when people walked on them :D I'm an IT guy - phone support, to be specific.


Greencreeper, have a look at some of the stuff on the web about learning styles<snip>
Indeed. I spent my placement year at Uni looking into how technology supports both learning and personal development. Was interesting :)


Your boss sounds like a pragmatist - she can recognise when there's a problem, identify a range of solutions, and apply a solution to fix the problem. What's so depressing about that? That's what her job is! She's sounds like she's a good manager because she can solve problems.
This thread isn't all about my boss and my relationship with her - it's about my suddenly stumbling on a whole new way of being that's so alien to me that it just occurred to me before. Such things interest me :) My boss is just example - the example that made me aware. I just looked at how she operated.


You sound like a cross between a theorist and a reflector - mostly a reflector I'd say. You like to sit back and think about situations - maybe too much? You say: 'I like to explore things and understand, even if no solution is reached' - not great management potential there ;)
Well, I'm difficult to find a slot for :D You're largely right, though when I have a clear plan of action, it drives me right up the wall faffing about with procedure and policy. Just do it. Make it happen :fit:


Is there a problem with the way she's working?<snip>
Not exactly, no. But she does rely on people like me to help her out, but then, when it comes to reviews, no mention of the help. Like someone said - modern management :D


You want good engineers engineering, and good managers managing. The last thing you want is good engineers as bad managers, and good managers as bad engineers. There are a few people who are good at both, but very few.
A good point, but I think managers need a certain level of understand not only to manage well, but to be respected by those they lead. It's about where you set the level.


But it could be you ;)
Definitely - Coggy is vital :D