View Full Version : A Little Info For Anybody Considering Voip over NTL 1Mbps
garethdphillips
17-02-2006, 12:05
I have recently moved from a BT line and 2Mbs aDSL to NTL 1Mbps to try and save some cash! The idea being I am no longer force fed a BT line, as I now have Voip Only (SipGate).
I was paying Pipex £23.44 (for an excellent service) and BT around £11.
I now pay only £17.99 and no standing charges for my Voip service so Im happy!
The concern was that the rubbish 100k upload speed would not be sufficient for Voip and that I may need to upgrade to the 2Mbps service (with a 200k upload) but it appears that the 1Mb service is sufficient - just.
I have a Netgear Voip adapter that has an option for QOS (default it off). I notice that as emails etc arrive inbound whilst I am on the phone the person I am speaking with does notice some break-up in my voice, but as long as the QOS is turned on it seems stable. Without Qos I suspect that voice calls are OK, but there is always the risk of something "unknown" happening to consume that little upsteam bandwidth.
In a nutshell, if anybody fancies moving from aDSL just to save some money on "connectivity" it appears the 1MB service is fine, as long as you can either enable QOS on your Voip adapter, or you connection is usually idle whilst you are in a call.
Direction
Actual Speed
True Speed (estimated)
Downstream
964 Kbps (120.5 KB/sec)
1041 Kbps (inc. overheads)
Upstream
91 Kbps (11.4 KB/sec)
98 Kbps (inc. overheads)
Good info :tu:
My experimentation with VOIP has gone no further than Skype (and that only PC to PC, not tried calling onto a regular phone line yet), but that works OK on 512K Virgin.net ADSL (NTL in disguise). The sound clips quite a bit though. I don't know whether it's possible to implement QOS on Skype.
garethdphillips
17-02-2006, 12:41
I havent tried Skype yet via NTL, although I dont really plan to as I only use a laptop at home and found that being tied to the computer was a bind. The appeal of my Voip solution is that I use my "proper" DECT phones and you cant really tell its not a land line. I even have an 0191 local number. The perception is that nothing has changed.
I think its important to stress that it is pushing the upload bandwidth of my 1MB link to the limit, so it is possible I may experience a little breakup in the future if I am heavy utilising the link, but I guess Qos will handle that (dropping or delaying other packets if required).
You could get yourself the Netgear adapter (also a router should you wish to use it as one) from www.sipgate.co.uk (http://www.sipgate.co.uk). You get 555 minutes free as soon as you hook up and register tha device, and its totally free to have a SIPGTE account. Otherwise you could just try their free softphone on your PC (but I found this unlcear and a bit like jittery like other soft alternatives)
etccarmageddon
22-02-2006, 11:34
I'm on sipgate using voip since last summer. excellent stuff in terms of saving on monthly line rental. phone line is poor quality though due to the 100k upload NTL offer but as it's saving £10 a month it's worth it.
---------- Post added at 11:34 ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 ----------
it's worth noting that the netgear voip router is 'locked' to sipgate - ie. the settings can not be changed if you decide to go elsewhere for your voip.
KevAmiga
22-02-2006, 11:41
Skype works fantastically well on my NTL 2mb connection, not sure how it would be on a 1mb, but apparently some guy i know uses it on Dialup?
garethdphillips
22-02-2006, 11:48
Do you use the soft phone or a Voip adapter? if so which adapter?
Do you find your coneection runs slowly at peak times? sometime my call clarity is 100% pefect for hours, other times its unusable
Gareth
etccarmageddon
22-02-2006, 11:55
I use the linksys pap.
Skype works fantastically well on my NTL 2mb connection, not sure how it would be on a 1mb, but apparently some guy i know uses it on Dialup?
I can confirm it worked fine on NTL 1Mb with 100k upload, and so it should coz the upstream is far greater than nomal telephone is compressed too!
Only problems I have with Skype are echo - but this is a function of hardware at use at each end, and Skype 2.0 seems to be a big improvement over previous versions - not used the video element yet!
philquinney
22-02-2006, 22:21
At my old flat I was using Sipgate on NTL's old 300k service with a 64k upload. Sipgate support G.729 (I think) so you can get calls into about 30k of bandwidth each way once you factor in TCP overheads. By default most VOIP devices will use G.711u which does need 80-100k to work properly.
NTL Cable Internet and Sipgate was a really good solution in the end. It gave us really cheap international calls and fully itemised billing, plus caller ID. I was also using it in combination with my own Asterisk server so the flexibility was useful. It takes time to get it all working though.
Phil.
Just for Info:
on 512 up...
i run simultaneously....
voip phone (sipgate - using Sipura 3000 + Asterisk @ Home)
3 machines with constant Msn :erm:
Play games online... using conferenced skype.. (good ping)
all's been fine for a couple of months with no probs! :shocked:
Monitoring usage.. no probs with that.. even with use of newsgroups :D
garethdphillips
23-02-2006, 21:32
Hi
Im finding SIPGATE almost unusable at the moment. Most outbound calls I make just give "dead air" and never connect. I have to redial around 4 or 5 times. The caller often recieves the call, but I never hear them or a ringing tone.
Likewise on incoming calls, I often pick up and it appears nobody is there.
Sometimes on outbound calls I even get the Sipgate recorded message saying I have insufficient funds to complete the call! - and I certainly do have funds.
Have you noitced any of this behaviouir? Im kinda hoping its not just me!
---------- Post added at 21:32 ---------- Previous post was at 21:31 ----------
Hi
Im finding SIPGATE almost unusable at the moment. Most outbound calls I make just give "dead air" and never connect. I have to redial around 4 or 5 times. The caller often recieves the call, but I never hear them or a ringing tone.
Likewise on incoming calls, I often pick up and it appears nobody is there.
Sometimes on outbound calls I even get the Sipgate recorded message saying I have insufficient funds to complete the call! - and I certainly do have funds.
Have you noitced any of this behaviouir? Im kinda hoping its not just me!
DaggaDagga
23-02-2006, 21:53
This is close to my heart, as I've just had an NTL phone line installed last week after becoming utterly fed up of VoIP!
I had Vonage for nearly a year, as my only home phone. This was probably 80% as clear as a proper phone line but it was 100% reliable. However, it's nearly as expensive as a phone line.
I then bought a Zyxel ATA router (with QOS and lots of features). I then subscribed to Sipgate. What utter crap! Anyone calling us got an unavailable tone most of the time. We got an engaged tone whenever trying to call out. So yes Gareth, it's not just you. I'm also glad to hear it wasn't just me.
When it did actually work, the call quality was appalling. I was told by a client that I sounded like a dalek. This was via NTL 10Mb.
I also tried VoIPstunt. This was even worse. All the above applied, except it would randomly cut me off aswell (even though I paid onto my account).
It's a good concept, but the providers are a long way from providing anything like a decent service. Well, I've given up with it anyway.
Also, some of the call costs aren't very cheap really.
It's probably only worth bothering with if it's a second line and you have friends and family abroad who have a VoIP service too. Otherwise, it's a complete waste of time and money.
TheBlueRaja
23-02-2006, 22:50
Depending on what VoIP Codec is used will determine the amount of upload Bandwidth required.
Most will use either
G.711 (Best Quality) (64k) - 80Kbps with IP Overhead or
G.729AB (Compressed - Mobile Quality) (8k) - 24Kbps with IP Overhead.
G.723 (Really Compressed - Crappy Quality) (5.3kbps) - 16Kbps with IP Overhead.
Which roughly means that with a single 128k uplink you could have 1 x G.711 calls, 5 x G.729AB calls or 8 x G.723 Calls.
So if you have the option in your VoIP software you can now set it to what quality you desire depending on your line speed.
Basically anything above 128k should be G.711, however you can get away with it on 128k, its just if anything else is using much of the link - well - you may get a bit of chop.
Ive been with sipgate for a couple of months
I can't really say that ive had many issues... Yet..
I had a few tweaking issues with my ata, but these were not quality issues.
The Issues that i can put down to sipgate are:
Outgoing...sometimes i dont get ringing tone before the recipent answers.
Cant use DTMF, a bit of a pain.. but thats what the works phone is for.
An issue with one caller that withholds their number, not getting through first time, but thats the mother-in-law so... hey!
I only have a VOIP landline.
To be a viable option I think it really depends on how much you like messing with stuff. I could have packed in at first and chucked my sipura out of the window... but i stuck with it... and glad i have... im now looking for other providers, i finally think ive got my head around multiple dialing patterns.
I dont think i would recomend Voip for the average consumer or heavy phone user at the moment, but there is a learning curve to everything!
Above all if you have to redial because the kids cut you off, sending files on MSn Again... it doesnt cost a 6p connection charge.
DaggaDagga
26-02-2006, 12:28
I dont think i would recomend Voip for the average consumer or heavy phone user at the moment, but there is a learning curve to everything!
Hey, watch who you're subtly calling a thicko. You're not the only one with brain cells.
I did play with all the various options, codecs etc. Perhaps your expectations are below those of the "average consumer". Or perhaps you're deaf, so don't appreciate how awful it sounds. As I use the phone for business as well as home use, crap sound quality is not an option. I did often find that it would sound almost OK at my end, but the other end thought it sounded awful.
UncleBooBoo
26-02-2006, 13:23
I have been using voip for some time now with NTL's 2Mb & 10Mb teirs, and I can say it works perfectly. The sound quality is no different to a normal landline and it does infact cost less!
etccarmageddon
26-02-2006, 15:13
Hi
Im finding SIPGATE almost unusable at the moment. Most outbound calls I make just give "dead air" and never connect. I have to redial around 4 or 5 times. The caller often recieves the call, but I never hear them or a ringing tone.
Likewise on incoming calls, I often pick up and it appears nobody is there.
Sometimes on outbound calls I even get the Sipgate recorded message saying I have insufficient funds to complete the call! - and I certainly do have funds.
Have you noitced any of this behaviouir? Im kinda hoping its not just me!
this is most likely a router fault/issue - make sure you have port forwarding on.
5060 to 5061 - forward to the ip address of your voip adaptor
16384 to 16482 - forward to the ip address of your voip adaptor
I jumped to freetalk VOIP www.freetalk.co.uk
Stopped paying ntl line rental and talk unlimited which was approx £25.00 per month. Just kept the BB package
My last three months bills from with freetalk were. £3.96/£1.96/£2.70 :) :) :)
Mike
UncleBooBoo
26-02-2006, 16:20
I have had the same problem with sipgate, they were very unreliable!
I now use voipfone.co.uk who are great, only snag is you have to pay £1.99 for a local geo number but hey I don't mind paying a little extra for a great product with great CS/support!
DaggaDagga
26-02-2006, 17:29
I now use voipfone.co.uk who are great, only snag is you have to pay £1.99 for a local geo number but hey I don't mind paying a little extra for a great product with great CS/support!
Ta for the tip. I'll give them a try.
garethdphillips
26-02-2006, 18:32
I assume the Voip adapter is UpnP complient as I havent opened any ports and it works fine (well as I said previously, it does sometimes!)
If it does work, and no ports have been forwarded, it must handle that itslef via UpnP?
Gareth
I use freetalk as well and is actually better quality line that what i had with Ntl so much clearer now with ni delay or echo at all bargain for £79 for the year.
Hey, watch who you're subtly calling a thicko. You're not the only one with brain cells.
No... sorry.. :)
My meaning was not pointed at your post, and im sorry if you read it as such.
Sipgate had been mentioned, i am using sipgate and have no problems like others were.
My meaning:
The use of "average consumer" was determining the amount of experimentation level, not the amount of grey matter. Implication being the usual factor of time and or inclination.
My thinking was that of; When most people the buy a product, they would just like to plug it in etc.. and it will work from the outset or then rightly bang their fist on the shop counter etc. This is my understanding of the term "average consumer" and im sorry if it does not meet with yours.
Like i said i nearly tossed it all in... but am glad i didnt... Now :D
Even with all my wifes complaints during the the two months it took to get it right... and she is niether "Deaf" or has "expectations that are below those of the "average consumer". :D
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