View Full Version : Transport
OK, after the trip to Reading I have been asking myself the following question.
Why is it this country does not have a clean, reliable and easy to use public transport system?
Delays, breakdowns, difficult to understand timetables and route maps etc to name a few problems, all of which I suffered at the weekend LOL
I don't know how the people who live in the London are put up with it but I really don't know what the tourists who visit our capital must think. The London tube map seems to have been designed by a child with a crayola pack and the bus and train timetables require translators to make sense.
Or is it just me?
OK, after the trip to Reading I have been asking myself the following question.
Why is it this country does not have a clean, reliable and easy to use public transport system?
Delays, breakdowns, difficult to understand timetables and route maps etc to name a few problems, all of which I suffered at the weekend LOL
I don't know how the people who live in the London are put up with it but I really don't know what the tourists who visit our capital must think. The London tube map seems to have been designed by a child with a crayola pack and the bus and train timetables require translators to make sense.
Or is it just me?
first off...the underground maps arent that difficult....but then i have been using the underground regularly over the last five years so i kinda got used to it, apparently the french one is ten times more difficult
i will take you out in london and give u a underground map tutorial :p
as for delays...on the way to reading all three of my trains were delayed...i got to woking and was told i would have to get a bus to reading, but decided to go to guildford as planned and get a bus from there, low and behold there wass train to reading....:erm: do they have a clue what they are doing? NO
they also kept changing platforms...why oh why can't they sort themselves out..... it's funny i always have a problem when i am travelling relatively short journeys, whenever i have travelled to wales, or from leeds to reading, or from leeds to surrey i have never had any problems.......apart from trees falling on the track and being diverted :erm:
my question is really...the government lecture us about not using cars so much and using public transport.....well the public transport down south is ridiculous :mad: so what do they expect us to do?? and they keep putting up the bleeding fares
<rant over>
you look at anywhere in Europe that has a decent transport system
andthey all have one common factor - they have been a dictatorship in the past - eg Italy, Germany etc
that meant they could sidestep the issue of 'design by committee'
and fat cats creaming off profits etc
get it done or get shot
there - I've said it
The tube map itself isn't the hard part of the equation, its the finding the correct platform that can be a nightmare especially when you get 20 tourists in front of you who don't understand they are at the wrong turnstile and that is why the ticket won't let them through. I hardly use the mass transport systems in this country but I got home ok, it just annoys me that we want to encourage tourism and the use of rail, tube and bus but we can't seem to make it reliable or simple to use for others.
Woah, now this could be a big topic ... this country's rail woes began about 50 years ago with a shift towards road transport which was perceived as the flexible, modern way forward. Governments of all colours have favoured road development, choosing to fund the railways almost as an 'overflow' system carrying traffic that physically can't fit on the roads. Investment has been insufficient to keep pace with technological advances, the need to get to more places and faster, and, worst of all, simple maintenance and renewal of the infrastructure.
The Hatfield crash is now often quoted as the point in time when things went horribly, horribly wrong - speed restrictions and the like - and is now seen as the beginning point of a period of turmoil on the railways now forecast to last another 10 years (you often hear predictions of when punctuality will return to 'pre-Hatfield' levels). However Hatfield, in which a fatigued piece of track snapped, allowing a GNER train to de-rail, simply brought into focus the dangerous state the railways were being allowed to fall into.
And while there has been more apparent progress towards improvement this time, there is still a strong suspicion that once again, the Government's resolve fades as the news drops off the front pages. After the Ladbroke Grove disaster, John Prescott pledged to spend whatever it took to install Advanced Train Protection across the network, before perfomring a quiet u-turn when confronted with the cost and opting for a cheaper alternative (which, even if fitted, would not have prevented the Ladbroke Grove collision because the train passed the red signal at too high a speed). Similarly, pledges of cash for major upgrades have faded away, with Network Rail being 'encouraged' to lop £2bn off its new budget request, and news now that it may get a further £1.3bn cut. NR has indicated that it is maintenance on lesser-used lines that will be put off if this is the case. Truly, what goes around, comes around...
(As for the London Underground map, see here for a geek's treasury of information and history: http://clives.members.easyspace.com/tube/tube.html )
towny yes i see your point, i.e. that there is a problem with funding, however the train companies need to realise that IF they develop their systems to be more reliable and IF they make them cleaner, THEN more people will use them THERFORE they will earn back in profit the money they have put into making it a better serivice.....
what does wind me up though is the bleeding government insisting on us using cars less and then not giving us a reliable alternative...so the governement should get their ass' into gear and stop piling money into futile things and sort themselves out :mad:
The problem is, the train operating companies are on a hiding to nothing. When privatisation happened, they moved in on a network that was already in a dodgy state. This was a disaster waiting to happen.
Arguably privatisation has made things worse - the network has lost British Rail's famous 'safety culture', but by bringing all maintenance work back in-house Network Rail has hopefully now begun to address that. There wil be no more competitive tendering for maintenance work, so no more management pressure on the workforce to cut corners and meet time/cost/bonus targets.
I agree there is more to reliability than the network itself and it's certainly true that the TOCs have caused mayhem by sacking large numbers of drivers - they claimed the service was 'overstaffed' but the end result has been frequent cancellations due to 'driver shortages'. Also, companies like Connex made no friends by persisting in using dirty, ancient rolling stock on some routes. They have now paid the price for their incompetence and have lost their franchise.
The whole private railways model is a difficult one. The railway is part of Britain's transport infrastructure and as such it shouldn't be necessary to judge its success by whether it makes a profit. I like the model used in the quasi-renationalisation of Railtrack - Network Rail is a 'company limited by guarantee', State-funded and not-for-profit.
ok towny i see your point.......but surely they should be aiming to get people to use their service......with the introduction of the thingy bobby u have to pay to go in and out of london via road, they should hve seen a gold mine opening up...
yes the railways were already shocking, but it just seems a case of passing the buck around........we deserve to have a decent private transport service..especailly because we live in a country with one of the highest taxes on cars and fuel......
what do they want us all to do bicycle everywhere? yes it is healthier to the envirnonment but it is bleeding dangerous
you look at anywhere in Europe that has a decent transport system
andthey all have one common factor - they have been a dictatorship in the past - eg Italy, Germany etc
that meant they could sidestep the issue of 'design by committee'
and fat cats creaming off profits etc
get it done or get shot
there - I've said itSad but not quite true true. Take the Skandinavian countries.....
But yes, dictatorships do seem to get things done.
We do indeed deserve a better transport service, and they should be doing more to get us to use it. Sadly I see little chance of the current Government delivering anything on this. Labour has proven expert at squeezing taxes ever higher without many people noticing, but absolutely useless at spending money more efficiently. Therefore all the cash they raise gets poured into the bottomless pits at the Department of Health and the Department of Education, with little left over for anything else.
We do indeed deserve a better transport service, and they should be doing more to get us to use it. Sadly I see little chance of the current Government delivering anything on this. Labour has proven expert at squeezing taxes ever higher without many people noticing, but absolutely useless at spending money more efficiently. Therefore all the cash they raise gets poured into the bottomless pits at the Department of Health and the Department of Education, with little left over for anything else.
:rofl: thats a joke, the government doing begger all to help us :rofl:
as for them putting money into heath and schools........looking at the hospital my nan is currently in that is a bleeding joke.......they have hardly any nurses on duty...and get this, she is seriously seriously ill, but a doctor signed release papers so she could go home over the weekend IF she was better, just in case they couldnt find a doctor to release her :banghead: :mad: :grind:
but sorry that was off topic.........kinda
Not really off topic just shows a key failling in this country, the lack of funds for important areas of public services.
But back on topic and away from politics please ;) LOL You would think with the ammount of money raised from taxes on fuel etc that we would be able to get from a to b without too many problems :(
but sorry that was off topic.........kinda
Not really, the Government's inability to spend its cash pile more efficiently means your nan gets a rotten hospital experience and it also means there is no spare cash to improve the rail network. It's all tied together, and the trail leads straight to the door of number 10.
Not really off topic just shows a key failling in this country, the lack of funds for important areas of public services.
But back on topic and away from politics please ;) LOL You would think with the ammount of money raised from taxes on fuel etc that we would be able to get from a to b without too many problems :(
away from politics yet you talk about taxes? :erm:
(and amount has one m :p..says she the typo queen;))
i think politics in necessarily linked to transport but maybe thats just me
Not really, the Government's inability to spend its cash pile more efficiently means your nan gets a rotten hospital experience and it also means there is no spare cash to improve the rail network. It's all tied together, and the trail leads straight to the door of number 10.
yeah well i never liked him at number ten, i think he is a smarmy git :mad:
away from politics yet you talk about taxes? :erm:
(and amount has one m :p..says she the typo queen;))
i think politics in nessarily linked to transport but maybe thats just me
No comment ;)
Yes the transport system will always be linked to politics but if I wanted a political debate I would have started one :p Politics has damaged the transportation systems of this country to the point where it will take years for them to recover but there must be things that can be done now to improve them.
Example. Simplified plans and easy to follow guides on the tube (maybe coloured lines on the floor leading to the correct platform for a certain line)
Easy to read timetables for busses and trains etc
No comment ;)
Yes the transport system will always be linked to politics but if I wanted a political debate I would have started one :P Politics has damages the transportation systems of this country to the point where it will take years for it to recover but there must be things that can be done now to improve them. Example. Simplified plans and easy to follow guides on the tube (maybe coloured lines on the floor leading to the correct platform for a certain line)
Easy to read timetables for busses and trains etc
1. i edited so :p
2. at least i know how to do a :p smilie
3. it is a political issue so :p:p:p:p
now back on topic...transport...
Damn that quote box;) :p
Now about suggestions for improvements to our mass transport system ;)
Damn that quote box;) :p
Now about suggestions for improvements to our mass transport system ;)
huh? :dunce:
While I agree that this government has done f*** all to improve hospitals and transport, they are not the only government that can be blamed for this.
I don't agree with socialism (or nationalisation for the sake of it) but transport should be run by the government, not private companies. However, it should be run efficiently.
Traditionally, when properly invested in, the railways (both in this country and others) have never made a large enough profit to warrant privatisation. Hell, British Rail was created because smaller rail companies were going bankrupt.
When privatising the Rail network was being talked about, I remember seeing (I think) the Swedish transport minister on TV, warning us not to privatise as they had tried it and it failed. That seems to be happening here too. First Railtrack went, now the South Eastern lines are run by "south eastern" trains, pending the award of a new contract after connex were sacked.
As to the state of Transport. Somebody (and I don't know whether it should be the government or a private company) needs to invest a lot of money to
1) Reverse the damage done by the current train companies through lack of maintenance (according to Private Eye, Railtrack cut imaintenance to below safe minimum levels years ago) and
2) Improve the system.
Edit: Didn't make sense the first time.
While I agree that this government has done f*** all to improve hospitals and transport, they are not the only government that can be blamed for this.
I don't agree with socialism (or nationalisation for the sake of it) but transport should be run by the government, not private companies. However, it should be run efficiently.
Traditionally, when properly invested in, the railways (both in this country and others) have never made a large enough profit to warrant privatisation. Hell, British Rail was created because smaller rail companies were going bankrupt.
When privatising the Rail network was being talked about, I remember seeing (I think) the Swedish transport minister on TV, warning us not to privatise as they had tried it and it failed. That seems to be happening here too. First Railtrack went, now the South Eastern lines are run by "south eastern" trains, pending the award of a new contract after connex were sacked.
As to the state of Transport. Somebody (and I don't know whether it should be the government or a private company) needs to invest a lot of money to
1) Reverse the damage done by the current train companies through lack of maintenance (according to Private Eye, Railtrack cut imaintenance to below safe minimum levels years ago) and
2) Improve the system.
Edit: Didn't make sense the first time.
ok i see your point, but who allowed the rail service to become privatised?
privatisation can be a good idea in theory, if a company proves they are willing to actually repair the damage already there, otherwise it is simply a waste of time imo
ok i see your point, but who allowed the rail service to become privatised?
privatisation can be a good idea in theory, if a company proves they are willing to actually repair the damage already there, otherwise it is simply a waste of time imo
True, this government didn't start privatisation, and I wasn't having a go at any particular government. No government since the 60s has invested the right amount in our railways. So, to a certain extent, they are all to blame.
Having said all that, privatisation can work. Look at the Docklands Light Railway. That is privatised and works brilliantly (most of the time).
To be perfectly honest, I really haven;t had any problems with the railways, admittedly I don't use them everyday. However I do use them a couple of times a month, and they are very rarely late, yes some of the Central trains, trains (does that make sense) are filthy smelly old rolling stock, but thats not the governments fault. It really does seem to be a franchise thing because either other services that run through Leicester are all really nice.
The busses on the other had are a very different matter, and Arriva Fox County should be ashamed of themselves the level of service they offer around here :grind:
vBulletin® v3.8.11, Copyright ©2000-2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.