View Full Version : Automatic Number Plate Recognition
LSainsbury
19-01-2006, 13:43
Just seen this (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/01/19/anpr_policing_data/)on El Reg, which got me wondering...
You go to a garage to fill up and you spot the Automatic Number Plate Recognition sign....so - how exactly does this system work??
The camera just reads the numberplate and figures out what the letters/numbers are like OCR software in a scanner.
Expect to see a crackdown on the amount of non-standard number plates and plates obscured with mud etc.
After the numberplate is read I'd imagine it would just go into a large database which can be searched by the police.
It would be interesting to see if this database flagged up duplicates in places that they cannot possibly have got to in order to cut down on car cloning.
Basically it videos vehicles with a camera and a PC 'reads' the number plate and checks with the police national computer and DVLC databases if it is 'of interest'.
The images can be stored on a HDD.
Links here (http://www.pito.org.uk/what_we_do/identification/anpr.htm) & here (http://www.videofit.co.uk/).
skyblueheroes
19-01-2006, 13:56
The police already use them. They were out in force last night with one in the back of an unmarked van.
It recognises the number plate and within a few hundred yards it knows if that car has insurance, has been reported stolen and is taxed etc.....
The police already use them. They were out in force last night with one in the back of an unmarked van......
They've been installed on approach roads to Manchester Airport (and many other places) for years. I know because I give the necessary permissions for their installation on Airport property. ;)
The police can input the reg of a car they want to trace and if one sees it it flags an alert in police control rooms.
(This IS the Big Brother thread isn't it :erm: )
For the Insurance part i agree, but there will be a database of where your car was and when.
I have visions of criminals using false plates in crimes, then an innocent person trying to say it wasnt there car. :Yikes:
I have visions of criminals using false plates in crimes, then an innocent person trying to say it wasnt there car. :Yikes:
You already get that with speed cameras and the like where people get fines when they are no-where near the camera as someone has 'borrowed' their cars numberplate and put it onto a similar make and model.
True, i think i'll shut up until my brain is in gear :dunce:
True, i think i'll shut up until my brain is in gear :dunce:
Now marky, you know that that could take a while, don't you?
:PP:
..........but there will be a database of where your car was and when.
Only if it is 'of interest' to the authorities. There is way too much info going through these ANPR systems to store it all. :erm:
Only if it is 'of interest' to the authorities. There is way too much info going through these ANPR systems to store it all. :erm:
Actually, there's supposed to ANPR in use on the M180 while they're re-surfacing the road outside Scunthorpe. There's going to be a 50mph speed limit, with the cameras at each end - apparently, the cameras will automatically 'time' the traffic, and anything that does the distance faster than the 'norm' will have its details automatically sent for fines etc.
Having said that, it was meant to start on Monday and they're still not up, so who knows :shrug:
Actually, there's supposed to ANPR in use on the M180 while they're re-surfacing the road outside Scunthorpe. There's going to be a 50mph speed limit, with the cameras at each end - apparently, the cameras will automatically 'time' the traffic, and anything that does the distance faster than the 'norm' will have its details automatically sent for fines etc.
Having said that, it was meant to start on Monday and they're still not up, so who knows :shrug:
Don't think that's the same system m8, speed cameras are activated by a vehicle traversing a set distance in less than a specified time. It then takes a mug shot and when the piccies are assessed an auto fine sent.
ANPR is different in that they are linked to OCR PCs and the reg nos checked against police and DVLC databases for vehicles marked of interest.
Have a look at my links above. The ANPR cameras are different to speed cameras. They are very similar to the usual town centre surveillance cameras you see everywhere.
Don't think that's the same system m8, speed cameras are activated by a vehicle traversing a set distance in less than a specified time. It then takes a mug shot and when the piccies are assessed an auto fine sent..
Nope thats the SPEC's system
http://www.speedcamerasuk.com/SPECS.htm
http://www.abd.org.uk/specs.htm
AKA The yellow vultures. They popped them up on a stretch of road in Ayrshire a while back and now they are complaining that drivers are going too slowly and causing tailbacks.
Nothing to do with the level of fines not being what they were expecting, honest :D
The system Mr Nug refers to, reads your plate at the begining of a stretch of road, then another does it at the end of the road, the computer then works out your average speed over the whole length of the road. :)
Edit> Beaten again
Nope that the SPEC's system
http://www.speedcamerasuk.com/SPECS.htm
http://www.abd.org.uk/specs.htm
AKA The yellow vultures. They popped them up on a stretch of road in Ayrshire a while back and now they are complaining that drivers are going too slowly and causing tailbacks.
Nothing to do with the level of fines not being what they were expecting, honest :D
Front facing cameras like Specs and the Truvelo.
I just blast through them on my bike with one finger up. :)
Not to be confused with these (http://www.abd.org.uk/blue-cam.htm) !!
---------- Post added at 15:21 ---------- Previous post was at 15:18 ----------
Nope that the SPEC's system
http://www.speedcamerasuk.com/SPECS.htm
http://www.abd.org.uk/specs.htm
AKA The yellow vultures. They popped them up on a stretch of road in Ayrshire a while back and now they are complaining that drivers are going too slowly and causing tailbacks.
Nothing to do with the level of fines not being what they were expecting, honest :D
Actually I meant the Gatso's (http://www.abd.org.uk/index.htm), but there's so many types nowadays, best to be sus of any camera !! :mad:
Not to be confused with these (http://www.abd.org.uk/blue-cam.htm) !!
They have those fastened to motorway bridges around here.
etccarmageddon
19-01-2006, 15:37
They've been installed on approach roads to Manchester Airport (and many other places) for years. I know because I give the necessary permissions for their installation on Airport property. ;)
The police can input the reg of a car they want to trace and if one sees it it flags an alert in police control rooms.
(This IS the Big Brother thread isn't it :erm: )it's now live at the trafford centre as well - the police say they hope it will put off criminals visiting.
They have those fastened to motorway bridges around here.
You also get them in Green.
Don't think that's the same system m8, speed cameras are activated by a vehicle traversing a set distance in less than a specified time. It then takes a mug shot and when the piccies are assessed an auto fine sent.
ANPR is different in that they are linked to OCR PCs and the reg nos checked against police and DVLC databases for vehicles marked of interest.
Have a look at my links above. The ANPR cameras are different to speed cameras. They are very similar to the usual town centre surveillance cameras you see everywhere.
Actually, you're right, and I stand corrected :) When I checked back at the report I read it in, it does actually say that they're SPECs.
Blimey, I've wondered what they were for... they have them on the M4 near Swindon and Bristol too. Didn't think they were speed cameras, but wasn't sure what they were for.
handyman
19-01-2006, 16:41
Blimey, I've wondered what they were for... they have them on the M4 near Swindon and Bristol too. Didn't think they were speed cameras, but wasn't sure what they were for.
There are a large amount of traffic monitoring cams from the likes of the AA and RAC about which are often confused for speed cams.
More info on the different types here. (http://www.ukspeedcameras.co.uk/guide.htm)
SPECS SystemSpeed Violation Detection Deterrent, SVDD is the digital brain which the SPECS system is based upon, it uses state of the art video system with Automatic Number Plate Reading (ANPR) digital technology. Consisting of two video cameras each fitted with infra red illuminators, giving the ability to work 24hrs 7days a week.
I worked on very early reg plate recog trials for the Home Office. HMG departments reckoned Scorpion (or its succesors) would eventually be fitted on most motorway bridges as it could be used to track movements of any vehicle it is requested to do so. Installation on most major roads would probably go ahead when the links and computers are updated.
"They" see it as a usual tool to track sensitive convoys, emergency service vehicles, etc, but no doubt it will have major Big Brother uses too...
The police already use them. They were out in force last night with one in the back of an unmarked van.
It recognises the number plate and within a few hundred yards it knows if that car has insurance, has been reported stolen and is taxed etc.....
I got pulled the other morning while on my way to work @ 2.30am the copper came to my window and said your cars not taxed, I said I think you'll find it is, he walked round to the tax disc then shone his torch onto the disc, all I got was sorry mate the data needs updating at the DVLA. My tax ran out on the 31/12/05 I renewed it on the day it ran out, the coppers need to update their records ASAP.
TrafficMaster has been recording number plates for years.
(btw, SPECS cameras are often on multilane roads, but it's worth remembering that the camera can only monitor one lane, so if you're in the other lane(s) you're ok anyway ;))
etccarmageddon
19-01-2006, 17:47
what if you pass the first specs cam in one line and then change lanes before you pass the next one? does that confuse it?
what if you pass the first specs cam in one line and then change lanes before you pass the next one? does that confuse it?
Nope :(
If you are a bit speedy going past them the only real hope is to slow right down before the next one.
Nope :(
If you are a bit speedy going past them the only real hope is to slow right down before the next one.Um, well if their is only one camera, watching one lane, then if you swap lane it's never going to see you.
Um, well if their is only one camera, watching one lane, then if you swap lane it's never going to see you.
Yeah but there are two cameras working in tandem so switching lanes will just mean you get caught by the other camera.
For the Insurance part i agree, but there will be a database of where your car was and when.
I have visions of criminals using false plates in crimes, then an innocent person trying to say it wasnt there car. :Yikes:
The way around that is what was going on at a gypsy site, they had about half a dozen identical C class Merecedes with the same number plates. It meant they could use one set of insurance, one MOT, one real tax disc and the others forged.
The majority of red tape introduced to clamp down on vehicle related "crime" has had little effect, other than to be a big inconvenience to honest people.
Yeah but there are two cameras working in tandem so switching lanes will just mean you get caught by the other camera.Where is this ? All the Nottingham sites only have one camera (at the start and finish) watching the outside lane.
Where is this ? All the Nottingham sites only have one camera (at the start and finish) watching the outside lane.
All the ones on the A77 are multiple camera systems.
All the ones on the A77 are multiple camera systems.Then yep, you're screwed - they are all linked together.
etccarmageddon
20-01-2006, 08:26
Yeah but there are two cameras working in tandem so switching lanes will just mean you get caught by the other camera.you've misunderstood me - I'm refering to those camera setups where it's 2 or more and they work by timing how long it takes you to travel from the one to the next one.
you've misunderstood me - I'm refering to those camera setups where it's 2 or more and they work by timing how long it takes you to travel from the one to the next one.
Thats the SPEC's system. The cameras work in pairs and report back to a central location.
If you are in the left hand lane going past camera 1 then move to the right hand lane going past camera 2 they both report back your number to a central location and work out the speed from there.
Thats the SPEC's system. The cameras work in pairs and report back to a central location.
If you are in the left hand lane going past camera 1 then move to the right hand lane going past camera 2 they both report back your number to a central location and work out the speed from there.
So you're telling me that I'm actually going to have to obey the speed limit on the way home? On A Friday? When I've got a fridge full of beer waiting for me?
That's just mean, that is :disturbd:
So you're telling me that I'm actually going to have to obey the speed limit on the way home? On A Friday? When I've got a fridge full of beer waiting for me?
That's just mean, that is :disturbd:
But you will appreaciate it more when you get there ;)
So you're telling me that I'm actually going to have to obey the speed limit on the way home? On A Friday? When I've got a fridge full of beer waiting for me?
Sadly yes :(
On a slightly OT note what would happen if you were drinking a beer in the car and got pulled over but were still under the limit?
A careless driving charge or a mysterious fall down the stairs at the local station?
Sadly yes :(
On a slightly OT note what would happen if you were drinking a beer in the car and got pulled over but were still under the limit?
A careless driving charge or a mysterious fall down the stairs at the local station?
Ah y'see - that's why I always have mine in a flask :erm: :D
Sadly yes :(
On a slightly OT note what would happen if you were drinking a beer in the car and got pulled over but were still under the limit?
A careless driving charge or a mysterious fall down the stairs at the local station?
You could try one of these (http://www.drinkstuff.com/products/product.asp?ID=3) to avoid the careless driving charge. :)
I guess these automatic number plate recognition systems are about as reliable as the ones they use on Tower Bridge!
I had a summons for driving a vehicle exceeding 25 Tons over it about 18 months ago. I tried very hard to explain to them but they said the system of weighing traffic was the latest technology and was foolproof and it was better if I just admitted the offence than prolong the inevitable and anyway it would cost me more.
I eventualy persuaded them that my 1953 vehicle bearing that registration had not been anywhere near london, it was in my garage declared SORN and anyway it had 3 wheels, a single cylinder 197cc engine, was made entirely of aluminium and fibreglass. I then had to point out the obvious, that the taxation class of tricycle on the V5 documentation that the guy had in front of him meant the vehicle did not exceed 450Kg, I asked him how the hell he thought a tricycle could weigh over 25 tons.:D
I asked if it was a joke and he said "This is a very serious matter sir, tower bridge is part of our heritage etc etc" I said "It's not part of mine, I'm Welsh":D
On a slightly OT note what would happen if you were drinking a beer in the car and got pulled over but were still under the limit?
A charge of not being in proper control of a motor vehicle would be coming your way. A lady got done for eating an apple while driving last year, so a beer would probably be sufficient.
ANPR has certainly been around for a while (although I don't remember being asked). A friend had his car nicked from just up the road from here in leafy West London and the police tracked it instantly as soon as they had the registration - the thief had gone by the time they got there though, so I'm not sure how effective it was.
So it's safe to say that any time you drive through London it's possible for the fuzz to know where you are instantly. Better take the bus, except they all have CCTV now. OK, the underground. Nope, I counted seven cameras in the booking office of the local Tube station last time I was there.
Better put a hoodie on then. We are by a long way the most watched society in the world, even more than places like North Korea. Which is some achievement really.
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