View Full Version : Moral dillema
Right guys I need some opinions.
I work at a Social Club. I was brought in to be the resident DJ but on my 'off' nights I'm regularly asked to work behind the bar.
Recently one of the bar staff was fired for various reasons so we're looking for another person to cover those shifts.
I'm temporarily sharing a house with 2 indian guys - one of them has asked me to keep him in mind if the place I work at needs staff.
I told my boss about this but she declined his offer. Her reasons were as follows.
She did not want to have an indian working behind the bar because of the abuse he would likely recieve from a lot of the punters. The average customer at this social club is rather bigotted and have a 'send 'em back' mentality. Others might be quite civil while sober but after a few pints might end up saying some nasty things. They are known for being quite cruel and unkind to people they don't know or those who they percieve to be 'different'.
Let me clarify - she is not directly racist (at least I don't believe her to be) as she doesn't have a problem per se with indians or any race, it's just she has to think of the customer base. Because so many of the regulars seem to be stuck in their ways, if she had some kind of 'racial abuse clampdown' then I'm sure it would end up with us losing trade.
It's a shame that this seems to be the end of the matter - he's a pretty sound bloke.
I feel guilty about my employers taking this view. I know it's not my fault and there's little I can do.
Your views?
you have no need to feel any guilt russ, i can see where shes coming from, if there are bigotted people then surely its better to keep the person out of harms way instead of as you said 'lose trade' or increase the amount of attacks on staff, sadly this is the way of society, you cannot control everyone :(
Tell them that the Social club has racist Idiots there
Your views?I'd come clean to your dark skinned m8. It's not your decision and the problem isn't of her making either. Life is like that sometimes and I'm sure he has had to deal with the occasional knockback because of his colour in the past.....I'mn sure he doesn't need the grief anyway....
...........on the other hand you could just not mention that the job is vacant till it's already filled again....
Tell them that the Social club has racist Idiots there
I think most social clubs are full of Alf Garnett types.
I am not sure if the problem is prejudice by a manager against asians, or a manager against anyone not perceived to be local, or the fact that the manager in question is female with a conception that either of the above are valid objections.
If I was your housemate I would avoid working for some sanctimonious ignorant cow that some idiot had placed in a position of authority among a load of redneck clients.
If I was your housemate I would avoid working for some sanctimonious ignorant cow that some idiot had placed in a position of authority among a load of redneck clients.
I don't think that's a fair assessment of her - if she went ahead and employed him there will be a LOT of racial taunts and possibly a loss of business. I'm not sure her making a stand against ignorance would be in the best financial interests of the business.
Perhaps I'm wrong, I know nothing about the running of such and establishment.
Its her Business. She knows what works or not. I was not calling her = I am sure she is charming and lovely.
I am also sure all of the regulars are open minded, bright intelligent people with no axe to grind.
Sorry for my ill conceived response above, I foolishly thought you wanted a response to your question.
Its her Business. She knows what works or not. I was not calling her = I am sure she is charming and lovely.
I am also sure all of the regulars are open minded, bright intelligent people with no axe to grind.
Sorry for my ill conceived response above, I foolishly thought you wanted a response to your question.
OK, I'm not sure what your apparent sarcasm is implying - of course I was looking for a response and I merely replied to yours.
My apparent sarcasm was implying that clearly your ethnically diverse friend would struggle to work comfortably in such a closed minded environment.
He may be better advised to seek a position in more tolerant surroundings.
Don't feel guilty about your employer or your workplace - they know not what they do. My advice would be to point them at some enlightenment - do you know anyone with a firm foundation in tolerance with access to media influence?
Don't feel guilty about your employer or your workplace - they know not what they do. My advice would be to point them at some enlightenment - do you know anyone with a firm foundation in tolerance with access to media influence?
Yes - but how do I prove anything?
Yes - but how do I prove anything?
Wait for the job to be advertised and encourage a range of people (you can monitor) to apply.
See what happens.
Wait for the job to be advertised and encourage a range of people (you can monitor) to apply.
See what happens.
It's not the kind of job that will be advertised, it's word-of-mouth. I'm just a DJ and barman there, I have no part in the recruitment process.
It's not the kind of job that will be advertised, it's word-of-mouth. I'm just a DJ and barman there, I have no part in the recruitment process.
Then its not really an issue.
You have done what you can. They will do as they please to get someone that 'fits'
Whilst they employ you, you have to fit too.
If you do another job, keep it separate.
If it conflicts with your fundamental beliefs, then you have to analyse and come to a decision. HTH
HTH
Which it doesn't! This is why I've thrown it open to the forum. But I appreciate the input.
You are most welcome to the input.
Perhaps I mis-understood the question(s) then?
There wasn't a question - I was after opinions but I'm still none the wiser so far.
carlingman
12-11-2005, 02:30
Right guys I need some opinions.
I work at a Social Club. I was brought in to be the resident DJ but on my 'off' nights I'm regularly asked to work behind the bar.
Recently one of the bar staff was fired for various reasons so we're looking for another person to cover those shifts.
I'm temporarily sharing a house with 2 indian guys - one of them has asked me to keep him in mind if the place I work at needs staff.
I told my boss about this but she declined his offer. Her reasons were as follows.
She did not want to have an indian working behind the bar because of the abuse he would likely recieve from a lot of the punters. The average customer at this social club is rather bigotted and have a 'send 'em back' mentality. Others might be quite civil while sober but after a few pints might end up saying some nasty things. They are known for being quite cruel and unkind to people they don't know or those who they percieve to be 'different'.
Let me clarify - she is not directly racist (at least I don't believe her to be) as she doesn't have a problem per se with indians or any race, it's just she has to think of the customer base. Because so many of the regulars seem to be stuck in their ways, if she had some kind of 'racial abuse clampdown' then I'm sure it would end up with us losing trade.
It's a shame that this seems to be the end of the matter - he's a pretty sound bloke.
I feel guilty about my employers taking this view. I know it's not my fault and there's little I can do.
Your views?
Well if this is a social club in the true sense of the word and in the valleys then no doubt it will be run by the committee.
If that is the case then your boss is merely the stewardess and has a right to appoint anyone she wants to.
If a so called bigotted member mentions any kinda of "send em back home" remark then he/she should be reported to the committee and his/her **** banned from the club.
If on the other hand it is a private owned club then the Landlady or owner should have the balls to do the same thing and expel the person concerned.
From previous experiance from serving as a Chairman and Committee member myself of a social club you will find the members attitude will soon change after being hauled in front of them.
So you have two options either tell the Stewardess to employ your mate and report any incidents to the Committee or tell her to make a decision if she is the Landlady and make her own choice.
:angel:
Well if this is a social club in the true sense of the word and in the valleys then no doubt it will be run by the committee.
Yup!
If that is the case then your boss is merely the stewardess and has a right to appoint anyone she wants to.
Right again.
If a so called bigotted member mentions any kinda of "send em back home" remark then he/she should be reported to the committee and his/her **** banned from the club.
Agreed - however this is where I believe she sees the sticking point - should said biggots find themselves banned then the belief seems to be that it would adversely affect business in 2 ways, firstly there are a LOT of said bigots and secondly other people who whilst not actually making any racist remarks, would probably take the side of their friends who are now banned and go elsewhere.
If on the other hand it is a private owned club then the Landlady or owner should have the balls to do the same thing and expel the person concerned.
N/A.
So you have two options either tell the Stewardess to employ your mate and report any incidents to the Committee or tell her to make a decision if she is the Landlady and make her own choice.
The committee leave all recruitment affairs down to the Stewardess, as is protocol.
carlingman
12-11-2005, 02:54
snip
Agreed - however this is where I believe she sees the sticking point - should said biggots find themselves banned then the belief seems to be that it would adversely affect business in 2 ways, firstly there are a LOT of said bigots and secondly other people who whilst not actually making any racist remarks, would probably take the side of their friends who are now banned and go elsewhere.
You will find that novelty wears off.
They will support their so called mate to a point until they realise they cannot no longer drink in their local.
Wait until their is an event their wife or partner wants to see in the club and they then have to explain that we cannot go to "x" club tonight because I am supporting person "y"
Failing that people who frequent as members the club concerned will also be members of other clubs in the vacinity and the club where the person originally offended has a duty to report the offence to neighbouring clubs.
You will soon find then their attitude changes and the apologies flowing.
:angel:
You may be right...
However never underestimate the tribalism displayed by many a regular of a small Welsh industrial town's Social Club :disturbd:
carlingman
12-11-2005, 03:01
:D You may be right...
However never underestimate the tribalism displayed by many a regular of a small Welsh industrial town's Social Club :disturbd:
You will have to trust me on this one.
I am from and still live in an ex Miners community where the social clubs are the hub of the village and the loyalty to their friends soon wears off when their choice of drinking establishments are in threat.
:D
Believe it or not many moons ago we had the same problem over employing female bar staff and many members were hauled up in front of the committee for sexual harassment for comments such as "nice tits love"
You've got a point - but I still can't see anything being done. I doubt she'd upset the financial stability of the club (albeit temporarily?) by reporting people to the committee who'd more than likely sweep it under the carpet - they tend to get on with the more important matters of being committee members such as calling meetings to agree that their nice comfy committee member chairs could do with being even more nice and comfy....
Right guys I need some opinions.
I work at a Social Club. I was brought in to be the resident DJ but on my 'off' nights I'm regularly asked to work behind the bar.
Recently one of the bar staff was fired for various reasons so we're looking for another person to cover those shifts.
I'm temporarily sharing a house with 2 indian guys - one of them has asked me to keep him in mind if the place I work at needs staff.
I told my boss about this but she declined his offer. Her reasons were as follows.
She did not want to have an indian working behind the bar because of the abuse he would likely recieve from a lot of the punters. The average customer at this social club is rather bigotted and have a 'send 'em back' mentality. Others might be quite civil while sober but after a few pints might end up saying some nasty things. They are known for being quite cruel and unkind to people they don't know or those who they percieve to be 'different'.
Let me clarify - she is not directly racist (at least I don't believe her to be) as she doesn't have a problem per se with indians or any race, it's just she has to think of the customer base. Because so many of the regulars seem to be stuck in their ways, if she had some kind of 'racial abuse clampdown' then I'm sure it would end up with us losing trade.
It's a shame that this seems to be the end of the matter - he's a pretty sound bloke.
I feel guilty about my employers taking this view. I know it's not my fault and there's little I can do.
Your views?
Just be honest with him Russ I'm sure he'll appreciate your honesty than being told a pack of lies. If he's going to be the brunt of racial abuse he's better off out of it.
I dont have a problem, but if the punters do then its right not to employ the person, sad but true :(
They do say the customer is right, and it would cause to much flak.
Wrong but right :erm:
swoop101
12-11-2005, 08:01
I would explain the situation to your friend, he will appreciate your honesty. Even though it is totaly wrong for people to express their biggoted views in public it will never be stopped.
It would also be wrong to knowingly expose anybody to racial abuse in any environment, and could lead the club to be taken to tribunal at a later date.
This situation happens far too often and, while I am no great supporter of mass immigration, I always try and show friendship and understanding to everyone. (except racist and sexist biggots)
:2cents:
cookie_365
12-11-2005, 12:38
Russ, I don't see any moral dilemma here at all. This sounds like the most incompetently run business in the country - and yes, I know who provides my cable BB ;) It's unlawful to prefer a white or male job applicant because of a belief of sexist or racist prejudice amongst customers Your boss is quite open about the fact that she'll refuse to offer a job to one of your housemates on the grounds of his race/colour. That's racist. It's also illegal. It's also not much of a secret that it's illegal. Let's imagine that your boss is persuaded to use legal methods to fill the post, and it happens that the best person for the job is black/Indian, or 'different' in some way. Your boss now seems to be saying that she'll sit back and let this person be subject to racial/whatever abuse. This is also racist. And it's also illegal. Employers have a duty of care to their employees to ensure that they are not subject to racist etc harrassment/abuse. It's also not much of a secret that that's illegal too. If she really believes that customers will potentially abuse a particular employee she must take steps to prevent this happening; if that means banning particular customers then so be it. I assume that if she'd never been offered her job on the grounds that the customers may have been misogynous towards her she'd be mighty upset if she later found out about it. So, what do you do about it? I would say: tell her - in the most tactful way you can ;) - that's she's being a stupid racist, and to find out the basics of employment law that she needs to do her job; it's not difficult. And if she refuses, well, I would look at your own conscience: are you happy to continue to support this racist business by continuing to work for them?
I am really upfront with my friends... probably way more than I should be. (Ask poor marge!).
If it was me, i'd tell him anyway. As he is Indian, I doubt he'd have a heart attack in shock at hearing that racism is apparent in Wales (or anywhere else in the UK I suppose), but just because you're supposed to be mates, he should know. What he wants to do about it, is up to him.
cookie_365
12-11-2005, 12:40
Sorry about the text formatting - CF doesn't seem to be working properly in FF at the mo :(
cookie_365
12-11-2005, 12:41
I dont have a problem, but if the punters do then its right not to employ the person, sad but true :(
They do say the customer is right, and it would cause to much flak.
Wrong but right :erm: You're 180 degrees out.
So, what do you do about it? I would say: tell her - in the most tactful way you can ;) - that's she's being a stupid racist, and to find out the basics of employment law that she needs to do her job; it's not difficult.
But this is the thing - if I bring employment law in to it, how do I prove anything?
And if she refuses, well, I would look at your own conscience: are you happy to continue to support this racist business by continuing to work for them?
This is definately something I've looked at but a) I don't think he's in a position where he is desperate, he has a very well paid job with Corus in Port Talbot. This doesn't make it any less serious of course however if he could find no other work then I'd feel even worse, and b) this close to Christmas I can't really afford to be swapping jobs.
I am trying to find - but can't - any thing that says whether an employment of an individual could lead to a decline in business, that it is OK to discriminate on the basis of race or gender.
There are loads of examples. Like Russ', or say a male doctor at a private ob/gyn clinic, or a private male midwife, or a male lawyer who works for a firm addressing gender (i.e. women) issues...
If you are honest with your mate, then it would be up to him if he wanted to take this further.
cookie_365
12-11-2005, 14:56
I am trying to find - but can't - any thing that says whether an employment of an individual could lead to a decline in business, that it is OK to discriminate on the basis of race or gender.
There are loads of examples. Like Russ', or say a male doctor at a private ob/gyn clinic, or a private male midwife, or a male lawyer who works for a firm addressing gender (i.e. women) issues...
There are very limited circumstances for where race etc is a genuine occupational requirement or qualification for the job; it might be legal to only employ a woman as an obstetrician in certain circumstances, but I'm not sure how it would be legal to discriminate against a male lawyer applying for a job in a firm specialising in gender issues because you can't really say that its a requirement or qualification for the job of providing legal advice.
Though that's reaching the fringes of my legal knowledge. ;)
However, there's definitely no 'dont want to upset racist customers' exception to the Race Relations Act :)
SMHarman
12-11-2005, 15:34
What is the recruitment process? Does it start as an application based process? If so he could complete two applications, one properly and another where he lies about his skin colour and race if the former gets invited to interview and the latter does not then if nothing else you have racial descrimination case on your hands
timewarrior2001
12-11-2005, 23:28
Right guys I need some opinions.
I work at a Social Club. I was brought in to be the resident DJ but on my 'off' nights I'm regularly asked to work behind the bar.
Recently one of the bar staff was fired for various reasons so we're looking for another person to cover those shifts.
I'm temporarily sharing a house with 2 indian guys - one of them has asked me to keep him in mind if the place I work at needs staff.
I told my boss about this but she declined his offer. Her reasons were as follows.
She did not want to have an indian working behind the bar because of the abuse he would likely recieve from a lot of the punters. The average customer at this social club is rather bigotted and have a 'send 'em back' mentality. Others might be quite civil while sober but after a few pints might end up saying some nasty things. They are known for being quite cruel and unkind to people they don't know or those who they percieve to be 'different'.
Let me clarify - she is not directly racist (at least I don't believe her to be) as she doesn't have a problem per se with indians or any race, it's just she has to think of the customer base. Because so many of the regulars seem to be stuck in their ways, if she had some kind of 'racial abuse clampdown' then I'm sure it would end up with us losing trade.
It's a shame that this seems to be the end of the matter - he's a pretty sound bloke.
I feel guilty about my employers taking this view. I know it's not my fault and there's little I can do.
Your views?
Its a social club, probably private and member only, therefor it is owned by the members. If the steward thinks its bad for business then fair enough.
However were your friend to find out and challenge the decision its bye bye social club.
My advice is, this does not firectly affect you, best keep your mouth shut and head down.
The world isnt a nice fair and utopian place, stuff like this happens all the time.
What is the recruitment process? Does it start as an application based process?
It's nowhere near as professional as that - as with most small-town social/workingmen's clubs, it's all word of mouth. The standard procedure is to call someone in for a very informal interview and it goes from there.
Its a social club, probably private and member only, therefor it is owned by the members. If the steward thinks its bad for business then fair enough.
However were your friend to find out and challenge the decision its bye bye social club.
My advice is, this does not firectly affect you, best keep your mouth shut and head down.
The world isnt a nice fair and utopian place, stuff like this happens all the time.
Oh, that's OK then. Racism should be dealt with, wherever it occurs. Of course, we can perpetuate discrimination, be apalled at the consequences and then blame it on those who are discriminated against. That's a plan.
Oh, that's OK then. Racism should be dealt with, wherever it occurs. Of course, we can perpetuate discrimination, be apalled at the consequences and then blame it on those who are discriminated against. That's a plan.
So, any constructive comments/suggestions for my predicament?
So, any constructive comments/suggestions for my predicament? Practical and principled I thought. I put my principles first if that's of any help.
timewarrior2001
12-11-2005, 23:51
Oh, that's OK then. Racism should be dealt with, wherever it occurs. Of course, we can perpetuate discrimination, be apalled at the consequences and then blame it on those who are discriminated against. That's a plan.
Follows the same rules, as its a private club it can legally exclude women from the bar.
I guess they can refuse to employ someone because they want to.
Lets get this one straight before you antagonise people.
The decision was the stewardesses. Yes it goes against racial harmony, yes its morally wrong.
BUT, Its also morally right, because no matter how you look at it, she is STILL protecting this guy from racial abuse, she is preventing racially motivated crimes occuring on her licensed premises and probably protecting the members and staff from assault.
But hey lets just walk all over it cos the big bad whiteman said no to the poor little black man.
The decision was made, the truth behind it was confidentially disclosed to russ. I am a member of 3 private clubs and only one has coloured members. Despite living in an area populated by a lot of coloured people.
Why should the people of the club, be FORCED to accept somehting they may not want to? why should this guy be forced not to work at the club because of his colour. Theres no clear cut right or wrong.
Its the laws on private clubs that allow them to be private, to not have to ban smoking and not permit women in the bar.
**** happens, live with it, but please please please stop moaning.
timewarrior2001
12-11-2005, 23:51
Practical and principled I thought. I put my principles first if that's of any help.
It seems your principles will steam roller everybody elses also.
Last time I looked private clubs were not exempt from employment law. but hey, what do I know?
And if people don't want opinions, don't post the thread.
because no matter how you look at it, she is STILL protecting this guy from racial abuse, she is preventing racially motivated crimes occuring on her licensed premises and probably protecting the members and staff from assault.
:clap:
Out of interest, the place will soon be reverting to a men-only policy apparently - when the rules were changed last year to permit women members for the first time in its 47 year history, takings steadily dropped.
And if people don't want opinions, don't post the thread.
I'd much prefer it if the opinions were constructive.
:clap:
Out of interest, the place will soon be reverting to a men-only policy apparently - when the rules were changed last year to permit women members for the first time in its 47 year history, takings steadily dropped. Let the market decide then. Sounds like a nice bunch of racist misogynists? How do you work the crowd? Does Black Betty get them on the dancefloor?
If you are honest with your mate, then it would be up to him if he wanted to take this further.
Good advice.
Let the market decide then. Sounds like a nice bunch of racist misogynists? How do you work the crowd? Does Black Betty get them on the dancefloor?
I'd much prefer it if the opinions were constructive.
Er, right. Look up principle in the dictionary, and sleep tight. ;)
timewarrior2001
13-11-2005, 00:03
Let the market decide then. Sounds like a nice bunch of racist misogynists? How do you work the crowd? Does Black Betty get them on the dancefloor?
Its a bloody business.
What are they supposed to do?
Its not like they are burning crosses and lynching the black men.
Er, right. Look up principle in the dictionary, and sleep tight. ;)
And look up the part of this thread where I say I can't risk changing jobs so close to Christmas.
Its a bloody business.
What are they supposed to do?
Its not like they are burning crosses and lynching the black men.
Businesses are regulated and for good reason.
But I'm interested you think they should perpetuate racism? Or profit from it?
Thought you worked at a radio station?
Sorry but whatever, you have to act on principle IMO. I have always challeneged racism, bosses or not.
timewarrior2001
13-11-2005, 00:08
Businesses are regulated and for good reason.
But I'm interested you think they should perpetuate racism? Or profit from it?
Ermmm no they should make a profit and invest their memeber money and give them a return.
Just like any other business.
Bad decisions cause business's to fold a folded business means loss of money, it istn gonna improve race relation is it?
Ermmm no they should make a profit and invest their memeber money and give them a return.
Just like any other business.
Bad decisions cause business's to fold a folded business means loss of money, it istn gonna improve race relation is it?
So you exclude people on the basis of their race (this way by subterfuge). Hope you're not also one of thse people who complain about ethnic minorities not integrating with such a welcoming community.
Business is not the be all and end all.
Thought you worked at a radio station?
I'm freelance.
Sorry but whatever, you have to act on principle IMO. I have always challeneged racism, bosses or not.
Finally! I knew you had a constructive opinion on this in you somewhere - my principle at the moment is to ensure my daughter has an enjoyable Christmas - in the new year I can look at things differently.
I don't doubt you've always challenged racism - kudos for that - but my position is a difficult one.
Follows the same rules, as its a private club it can legally exclude women from the bar.
I guess they can refuse to employ someone because they want to.Doesn't make it right though...
Lets get this one straight before you antagonise people.
The decision was the stewardesses. Yes it goes against racial harmony, yes its morally wrong.
BUT, Its also morally right, because no matter how you look at it, she is STILL protecting this guy from racial abuse, she is preventing racially motivated crimes occuring on her licensed premises and probably protecting the members and staff from assault.I really think that it is sad that you think that it is protecting him, instead of getting rid of the racism in the first place, which would protect him.
**** happens, live with it, but please please please stop moaning.If we stop moaning, the s**t will still happen.
I'm freelance.
Finally! I knew you had a constructive opinion on this in you somewhere - my principle at the moment is to ensure my daughter has an enjoyable Christmas - in the new year I can look at things differently.
I don't doubt you've always challenged racism - kudos for that - but my position is a difficult one.
I appreciate it's not an easy decision, but you have to act on principle. If we don't have principles, we have nothing.
timewarrior2001
13-11-2005, 00:25
Doesn't make it right though...
I really think that it is sad that you think that it is protecting him, instead of getting rid of the racism in the first place, which would protect him.
If we stop moaning, the s**t will still happen.
OK as I was trying to explain and only Russ seems to have picked up on it.
One crime is to ban him because of his race.
Another is to employ him and then not be able to control the racial abuse, attacks etc he will suffer. And also th epossibility of attacks on other members of staff that will inevitably come to his aid.
So the easiest and in my oppinion, the best (of a bad situation) is the decision that has been taken.
In an ideal world there would be no need for this to happen, but the world is not ideal, we do not have the authroity to tell each other how we should be thinking and feeling. The decision was based on what the steward felt was right at the time of making the decision. We were not there, we do not know the attitude and or feelings and the temprement of the members of this club. We are incapable of making such a decision because we are soooo scared of offending coloureds. Why do WE let the colour of THEIR skin affect OUR judgement. They should be judged as human beings nothing more nothing less.
This is a problem that works both ways in one it creates problems such as th eone here, and in another it opens more doors for them because of their colour. That shouldnt happen either.
timewarrior2001
13-11-2005, 00:27
I appreciate it's not an easy decision, but you have to act on principle. If we don't have principles, we have nothing.
I do agree with that, But if Russ acted on your principles his fdaughter could face a very rotten christmas.
So what are his options really?
The best course of action for russ is to keep his mouth shut.
Lest be honest, if he doesnt there could be more than him out of work and facing a dismal christmas.
OK as I was trying to explain and only Russ seems to have picked up on it.
One crime is to ban him because of his race.
Another is to employ him and then not be able to control the racial abuse, attacks etc he will suffer. And also th epossibility of attacks on other members of staff that will inevitably come to his aid.
So the easiest and in my oppinion, the best (of a bad situation) is the decision that has been taken.
In an ideal world there would be no need for this to happen, but the world is not ideal, we do not have the authroity to tell each other how we should be thinking and feeling. The decision was based on what the steward felt was right at the time of making the decision. We were not there, we do not know the attitude and or feelings and the temprement of the members of this club. We are incapable of making such a decision because we are soooo scared of offending coloureds. Why do WE let the colour of THEIR skin affect OUR judgement. They should be judged as human beings nothing more nothing less.
This is a problem that works both ways in one it creates problems such as th eone here, and in another it opens more doors for them because of their colour. That shouldnt happen either.Yes we should treat everyone like human beings, that is the point of anti-racism. So you get rid of the racism, not stop someone from gainful employment.
Yes we should treat everyone like human beings, that is the point of anti-racism. So you get rid of the racism, not stop someone from gainful employment.
The man has a point. A good one too.
timewarrior2001
13-11-2005, 00:53
Yes we should treat everyone like human beings, that is the point of anti-racism. So you get rid of the racism, not stop someone from gainful employment.
What about protecting the staff and this person?
As long as we dont appear racist all other problems dont exist is that what your saying?
Are we meant to be confrontational about everything yet preach peace?
OK the stewardess is damned if she doesnt employ him, and if she does and he's attacked she damned for not protecting her staff.
How exactly is she supposed to win?
You have to believe in what you believe in.
As long as we dont appear racist all other problems dont exist is that what your saying?Are you trying to put words into my mouth? We shouldn't appear to be, we shouldn't full stop. Both sides, before anyone brings that arguement into it.
Are we meant to be confrontational about everything yet preach peace?I wasn't. All I was saying was that it was sad that someone is stopped from working because of the bigoted few. Are yo0u being confrontational with me?
timewarrior2001
13-11-2005, 01:00
Are you trying to put words into my mouth? We shouldn't appear to be, we shouldn't full stop. Both sides, before anyone brings that arguement into it.
I wasn't. All I was saying was that it was sad that someone is stopped from working because of the bigoted few. Are yo0u being confrontational with me?
No I'm not, what I am saying is there is a bigger picture here.
On the front yes its racist, but given th elimited background I for one can see the stewardess may have made the best decision she could in the given circcumstances.
I'm all for equal opportunities, but at times a little sense needs to be shown, such as what would the point be in employing a black person behind the bar at a combat 18 rally? You simply wouldnt. And given the temprement of the people who legally OWN this club, the stewardess turned down the offer of assistance base don colour of skin. Simply she was between a rock and a hard place.
No I'm not, what I am saying is there is a bigger picture here.
On the front yes its racist, but given th elimited background I for one can see the stewardess may have made the best decision she could in the given circcumstances.Not on the front, the decision is based on racism from the members. Okay, the stewardess, may have been stuck between a rock and a hard place, but that would only pass the buck of racism onto the members.
I'm all for equal opportunities, but at times a little sense needs to be shown, such as what would the point be in employing a black person behind the bar at a combat 18 rally? You simply wouldnt. And given the temprement of the people who legally OWN this club, the stewardess turned down the offer of assistance base don colour of skin. Simply she was between a rock and a hard place.Oh, before anyone posts anything, I'm not for employing a black person just for the sake of publicity, but anyone who is right, should get the job.
I wouldn't expect Combat 18 to employ a black person, as I would have thought that the black person was a masochist to do it in the first place.
greencreeper
13-11-2005, 13:10
Sometimes (often) in life you have to accept that there's the way things should be, and then there's the way things are. Rarely can one man make a difference - only on Trisha. Your employer seems to of this mind. You can either resign on principle or not.
Russ, you've put him forward as he asked, she's rejected him for her reasons, you have nothing to be guilty about, you have played your part.
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