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toller
04-11-2005, 21:09
We got a flyer through the door about 4 weeks ago advertising NTL's 3 for £30 offer and after checking that we could get their services we decided to order it but opted to upgrade the TV to the family pack for an extra £9 per month. The order was placed online and an installation date of 31st october was given I also recieved an email saying a credit check would be carried out and i may have to pay a fee of £25 if it wasn't satisfactory.

I recieved a call from someone at NTL the following day and he started to go through the order and i told him i had placed an order online the previous day, he then said he could bring the installation date forward if we went through it again. The order was placed again and another installation date was set this time for 2 weeks earlier on a saturday.

On the tuesday before the newly scheduled saturday installation date an NTL engineer arrived to inform me that I was down for an instalaltion the following day (wednesday) which i didn't know about but he also said it wouldn't happen as they were going to need to dig the road up and so would require a construction team which would be arranged within the next few days.

I called NTL on the saturday to check if anyone was going to come as agreed when the order was placed on the phone and after being passed between CS and sales i was told there was a problem with the credit check and the installation would not be going ahead. I asked about the option of paying the £25 but they didn't seem to know what i was talking about and suggested i call experian to check what the problem was. I was told a letter had been mailed explaining what was happening but to this day i have not received anything in the post. After being messed around for almost a week I called NTL again to cancel the order and the game of being passed between CS and sales beagan again and lasted around 45 minutes before i was told the order had already been cancelled (news to me)

We decided to give NTL another go as the 3 for £30 is quite a bit cheaper that what we pay for everything now. This time we ordered everything in my partners name. We recieved the same email saying the order had been recived etc and and then a few days later a letter arrived stating we would need to pay a £25 pre payment and that the installation was scheduled for 4th november. We then recieved 2 letters with the broadband signon details both with slightly different spellings of my partners name. The next day i received a letter with different broadband sign on details but this time it was in my name.
I also got a phone call on my mobile confirming an installation date of 5th november and recived a text message with my broadband password.

I phoned up to pay the £25 payment and confirmed that the installation was indeed taking place on 4th november - i was assured it was.

Today os the 4th november and an engineer did turn up, infact it was the same engineer that turned up a couple of weeks before andafter staring at the road for 45 minutes he told us that he couldn't do the installation and a construction team would need to attend, he also said he would phone them as soon as he got back. I left it a few hours before calling CS and they then passed me to someone in Tyneside (i think) where i was told the engineer hadn't yet logged his visit and so they couldn't give me a modified installation date. I'm fully expecting the same engineer to turn up again tomorrow and say the same thing and I can really see myself letting rip at him if he does.

I've several friends who are with NTL and they all warned me that they're useless but never in my life did i expect them to be this shockingly bad.

I chose NTL over sky as it works out cheaper and there are probably only about 20 channels that i ever watch regularly so i don't need the hundreds that sky offer. I only wish sky offered phone and internet in their bundles and i wouldn't think twice about going with them instead.

Is this typical of NTL or am i just a one off, and is it likely to get any better or am i just as well cutting my losses and getting sky? Also is it going to be a mammoth uphill struggle for me to get my £25 back if i decide to cancel?

One thing i did notice is that NTL didn't waste any time setting up the direct debit, infact they set 3 of them up and i'm sure they'd have taken money from them had i not cancelled them.

Sorry for the long post but i really am cheesed off.

smicer07
04-11-2005, 21:14
Sounds like you've been seriously messed around mate. Sometimes you wonder if they don't actually want your money... I've never had a problem with NTL's services, but I know many have. Hope you get it sorted (and get an apology, or something free). NTL can be really good... but it just depends how lucky you are.

MovedGoalPosts
04-11-2005, 21:43
:welcome: to Cable Forum :D

Unfortunately, once it starts to go wrong with ntl, things can deteriorate rather swiftly. If it goes right, it does so very well. Many complaints of installation, never proceeding that we see on Cable Forum often do seem to stem from the internet ordering system, I do wonder why ntl don't just get rid of that.

The credit check stuff has become a bigger priority for ntl in recent months, as they try to ensure customers will infact be able to pay for their services. It woudl be worth you checking, with credit agencies to see what your status actually is - it might simply be a black mark against your address, nothing to do with you.

Let us know if anyone does turn up tommorrow or not. If the installation does or doesn't proceed, please do post an update.

If it doesn't happen, all is not lost. Cable Forum has developed senior level contacts at ntl who have proven very adept at troubleshooting. I'll keep an eye out for your update tommorrow, and if things don't work out we'll then ask for some more details from you so we can escalate things.
__________________

Moving to ntl Installation

fudge
04-11-2005, 21:50
toller , like your self i went for the 3 for £30 as it is a lot cheaper then the 3 other services that i had , like your self i had many problems. I do shift work so i arranged for ntl to call between 8 / 12 am the guy turned up at 3.30 pm

I am happy now with ntl but out of 4 morning appointments that i have had to arrange due to one thing or another only once have ntl met there time slot , the other 3 they turned up late afternoon.

Chrysalis
04-11-2005, 22:20
the old saying goes you get what you pay for, ntl are cheaper then the competition and you have found out why. You need to pick between price and quality.

andygrif
05-11-2005, 01:49
In the old days I'd have agreed with you Chrysalis - but ntl are no longer cheaper than anyone else:

It costs about the same for Sky as ntl TV, but they offer more for the same price.

It costs about the same for BT as ntl phone lines, but BT offer full itemised billing free, free caller display, a minimum charge rather than ntl's connection charge (which is in addition to the call costs) plus of course you can pick up your BT line and tell them to stuff it when they annoy you, and take it to one of their competitors - you can't do that with ntl.

And although I rate their broadband pretty highly, it's not really cheaper than the average DSL provider for 2mb, and in many cases more expensive.

But, despite paying market value for all these products, we still have to put up with below average levels of customer care and service.

I've spent three hours chasing round various departments within ntl in the last few days - just trying to cancel (as we're moving house). I've spoken to people who can only be described as socially inadequate, poorly trained and lacking in basic manners - and that's not the exception.

Sorry to the bods who work for ntl that read this - I know you think whenever I come out with this stuff that I'm having a go at you personally - but I'm not.

Almost without exception, whenever I try to call ntl about the most minor of problem they make matters 20 times worse. They lie, they make promises that they have no intention of keeping, they fail to keep proper notes, they fail to read notes properly, they cannot communicate with each other effectively and they appear to prefer to think of customers as enemies.

It's not their fault of course. The more human ones should be encouraged and properly trained - the rest of them should be kept in the back office away from being able to talk to customers...but then if you pay peanuts....

And all of that is the managers faults. They are obviously completely inept as they cannot seem to separate the potential staff that are able to listen and string a complete sentance together from the ones that sound like they should be featured on an episode of Little Britain.

They fail to train their staff properly (I had to explain to one what ADSL was the other day), they fail to keep them informed as to things that have already been advertised and they fail to motivate many of them to respond with more than a grunt.

Personally I'm glad to be getting shot of them. My nine years (listed building, can't have a dish) of hell are coming to an end - but they screwed up the installation all those years ago....they screwed getting my direct debit set up at the same time, they screwed me around regularly in the mean time and they're sure as hell not going to let me go without..guess what? .....

[/RANT]

Russ
05-11-2005, 01:59
This is a very interesting read - I recently moved in to where I am now and was told because I failed the credit scoring (I have no idea how) I'd need to pay £25 first which would be credited to my first bill.

I objected to this in a BIG way as I have nothing in my history which would prevent me from passing their check.

I spent ages on the phone arguing about this to no avail. They were adamant I had to pay a deposit.

Just when I'd decided to give up and go to BT/Sky, I had a letter from ntl telling me when my installation was going to be. I never heard anything more about the 'required' £25 deposit.

Neil
05-11-2005, 09:21
Almost without exception, whenever I try to call ntl about the most minor of problem they make matters 20 times worse. They lie, they make promises that they have no intention of keeping, they fail to keep proper notes, they fail to read notes properly, they cannot communicate with each other effectively and they appear to prefer to think of customers as enemies.

It's not their fault of course. The more human ones should be encouraged and properly trained - the rest of them should be kept in the back office away from being able to talk to customers...but then if you pay peanuts....

And all of that is the managers faults. They are obviously completely inept as they cannot seem to separate the potential staff that are able to listen and string a complete sentance together from the ones that sound like they should be featured on an episode of Little Britain.

They fail to train their staff properly (I had to explain to one what ADSL was the other day), they fail to keep them informed as to things that have already been advertised and they fail to motivate many of them to respond with more than a grunt.

Superb post Andy, & one that not only sums ntl up now, but one that would also describe them accurately 7 or so years ago.

They've come a long way in that time (not) :rolleyes:

toller
05-11-2005, 10:02
With regards to the credit check, I did actually expect to fail it as both me and my partner have adverse credit and so i didn't really have a problem paying the upfront £25. It just seems to me that most of the time NTL's right hand doesn't have a clue what the left hand is doing.

Certianly every CS agent i have spoken to (except one) sounded like they had an IQ in single figures. They seemed unable to think for themselves and were only able to tell me whatever happened to be displayed on the screen in front of them, if you start to ask something they don't have an answer for you just get passed to another department and then have to explain yourself all over again before being passed to another department.

I shall call them today and find out if the engineer that came yesterday has notified teeside about the need to dig up the road, I will then call CS and inform them that they have a week to get it sorted or i'm getting sky.

I fully expect never to see my £25 again although they'll not be keeping it without a big fight from me.

arcamalpha2004
05-11-2005, 13:03
One point I would question is this £25 credit fee, ofcourse they want to minimise their risks, ( ntl ) but its a bit like saying " well we normally would not accept you because our search has painted you as a credit liability but if you pay us £25 we will over ride that decision "

The customer then pays the £25 fee but then possibly rakes up hundreds of pounds, possibly thousands of pounds debt, so their get tough policy on bad debt may not work out.

Russ
05-11-2005, 13:12
Ntl have a credit limit in place to stop people building up hundred or thousands of pounds of debt.

arcamalpha2004
05-11-2005, 13:23
Ntl have a credit limit in place to stop people building up hundred or thousands of pounds of debt.

That is great russ ;) but if you want to cut your debt liabilities, why bother with credit checks that tell the company about the customer being a bad bet only to then say that they can have it if they pay £25? then give the customer the £25 back in the first bill, smells of madness to me, I mean you either pass or you dont, by no means am I saying that people who pass will not pose problems.

sollp
05-11-2005, 13:38
After reading your post andy i can only agree with what i hear, i know they are trying to make big alterations in the way the company works at the moment,(believe me they are) but unfortunately i think since the time NTL became NTL 1999-2000 ish there sole focus has been on saving money, restructuring the company internally, job cuts, and all this i think being aimed at merging with Telewest and of course to make the company more efficient, now this has been going on since those dates to this day.

So this is why, we are, were we are with them. It will improve but for how long this will take, who knows. Obviously now the merger is going ahead, with all this to go through again.
__________________

That is great russ ;) but if you want to cut your debt liabilities, why bother with credit checks that tell the company about the customer being a bad bet only to then say that they can have it if they pay £25? then give the customer the £25 back in the first bill, smells of madness to me, I mean you either pass or you dont, by no means am I saying that people who pass will not pose problems.

I'm assuming this money is to pay for the administration charge of them finding out if your a good customer who is going to pay and in the long run not cost NTL more through bad debt ect. Dosen't seem unreasonable to me.

arcamalpha2004
05-11-2005, 13:55
After reading your post andy i can only agree with what i hear, i know they are trying to make big alterations in the way the company works at the moment,(believe me they are) but unfortunately i think since the time NTL became NTL 1999-2000 ish there sole focus has been on saving money, restructuring the company internally, job cuts, and all this i think being aimed at merging with Telewest and of course to make the company more efficient, now this has been going on since those dates to this day.

So this is why, we are, were we are with them. It will improve but for how long this will take, who knows. Obviously now the merger is going ahead, with all this to go through again.
__________________



I'm assuming this money is to pay for the administration charge of them finding out if your a good customer who is going to pay and in the long run not cost NTL more through bad debt ect. Dosen't seem unreasonable to me.



NTL will be registered with a credit reference agency, they do not have to charge the £25 to the customer to do the search, ntl will have the capability of unlimited searches because they are registered with experian or equifax, banks and building societies I know of do not charge, they do the search, if your address comes up a bad cooky you dont get the facility, end of story.
I am not saying that the fee is unreasonable, but against the possible risk I think they should say no or the man from del monte :) if they want to save money in the long run.

sollp
05-11-2005, 14:02
Ok, didn't know that.

toller
05-11-2005, 16:31
Credit checks don't cost £25 to carry out. I always assumed the up front payment was so that technically you've paid a month in advance and if they have any problems with you paying up they can disconnect you and they won't have lost as much money.

Anyway an update. I called NTL CS this morning and spoke to a nice lad who agreed that i'd been mucked about and said he would call the construction team and try to get another installation date, he also promised to call me back in about 20 minutes. 4 hours passed wihout me recieving a call back so i rang them again and had to explain my situation yet again. This time i was told the previous guy i had spoken had called the construction team but was unable to get another installation date as there was no one around to authorise it until monday. The excuse for the original guy not phoning back was that apparantly their supervisors don't like the CS agents to make any outgoing calls (so why offer to call me back in the first place)

I have now been told to expect another call on monday although i'm not holding my breath.

I bloody well hope i get a month free subscription or something if this mess ever gets sorted out.

arcamalpha2004
06-11-2005, 00:11
Credit checks don't cost £25 to carry out. I always assumed the up front payment was so that technically you've paid a month in advance and if they have any problems with you paying up they can disconnect you and they won't have lost as much money.

Anyway an update. I called NTL CS this morning and spoke to a nice lad who agreed that i'd been mucked about and said he would call the construction team and try to get another installation date, he also promised to call me back in about 20 minutes. 4 hours passed wihout me recieving a call back so i rang them again and had to explain my situation yet again. This time i was told the previous guy i had spoken had called the construction team but was unable to get another installation date as there was no one around to authorise it until monday. The excuse for the original guy not phoning back was that apparantly their supervisors don't like the CS agents to make any outgoing calls (so why offer to call me back in the first place)

I have now been told to expect another call on monday although i'm not holding my breath.

I bloody well hope i get a month free subscription or something if this mess ever gets sorted out.


I wouldnt hold your breath, but hope it is sorted for you.
With regard the promised call back, that one was promised to me last week when an ntl engineer just left a sacm with a set up disc and made an exit with the pace stb we had.
Three times I called ntl to be given a different excuse as to why I was unable to register for broadband, one excuse being that there was no direct debit set up on the account, which was a lie because I had returned the dd mandate about a week before, but he said dont worry I can sort it for you now, he then promised I would be able to connect in about 10 minutes from the end of the call, the 10 minutes probably being enough time for him to vacate the building.
Calling again to be told this time that it was because there was no broadband details on the system, however he ( a different guy ) said he would sort it and to allow about an hour, a bit of a step up from the 10 minutes I was promised in the initial call.
Low and behold an hour later still no joy, called again and told a different guy that this was now the third time I had cause to call, he said a mistake had been made by one of the previous cs staff but he would sort it.
When I mentioned that the excuses were wearing thin and that i would be calling cancellations to have every bit of ntl ripped out my house he promised a call back before he went home to check that everything was ok, I didnt hold any hope but had to get off the phone before it was launched through the window.
Because they manage to fulfil every lie they tell you the callback did not happen.
Called cancellations the following day explaining the shambolic way I had been treated, a quick word with tech department sorted the problem.

Russ
06-11-2005, 00:16
Credit checks don't cost £25 to carry out.

I'm not sure anyone is saying they do - the £25 is a deposit.

Chrysalis
06-11-2005, 01:09
In the old days I'd have agreed with you Chrysalis - but ntl are no longer cheaper than anyone else:

It costs about the same for Sky as ntl TV, but they offer more for the same price.

It costs about the same for BT as ntl phone lines, but BT offer full itemised billing free, free caller display, a minimum charge rather than ntl's connection charge (which is in addition to the call costs) plus of course you can pick up your BT line and tell them to stuff it when they annoy you, and take it to one of their competitors - you can't do that with ntl.

And although I rate their broadband pretty highly, it's not really cheaper than the average DSL provider for 2mb, and in many cases more expensive.

But, despite paying market value for all these products, we still have to put up with below average levels of customer care and service.

I've spent three hours chasing round various departments within ntl in the last few days - just trying to cancel (as we're moving house). I've spoken to people who can only be described as socially inadequate, poorly trained and lacking in basic manners - and that's not the exception.

Sorry to the bods who work for ntl that read this - I know you think whenever I come out with this stuff that I'm having a go at you personally - but I'm not.

Almost without exception, whenever I try to call ntl about the most minor of problem they make matters 20 times worse. They lie, they make promises that they have no intention of keeping, they fail to keep proper notes, they fail to read notes properly, they cannot communicate with each other effectively and they appear to prefer to think of customers as enemies.

It's not their fault of course. The more human ones should be encouraged and properly trained - the rest of them should be kept in the back office away from being able to talk to customers...but then if you pay peanuts....

And all of that is the managers faults. They are obviously completely inept as they cannot seem to separate the potential staff that are able to listen and string a complete sentance together from the ones that sound like they should be featured on an episode of Little Britain.

They fail to train their staff properly (I had to explain to one what ADSL was the other day), they fail to keep them informed as to things that have already been advertised and they fail to motivate many of them to respond with more than a grunt.

Personally I'm glad to be getting shot of them. My nine years (listed building, can't have a dish) of hell are coming to an end - but they screwed up the installation all those years ago....they screwed getting my direct debit set up at the same time, they screwed me around regularly in the mean time and they're sure as hell not going to let me go without..guess what? .....

[/RANT]

You have showed example's of where ntl are not cheaper, but ntl offer free installation for a very long time now and this must be hitting their balance, BT wouldnt budge even when I offered to pay year line rental up front so BT seem to have a shrewd mind when it comes to minimum profit per customer. On broadband ntl have been very aggressive with their pricing and 1mbit for £9.99 not many isp's have matched that and how much of the competition offered triple play for £30? Then you have to bear in mind how easy it is to get retentions to give you a discount, ntl must have thousands of customers on some sort of discount probably at least a quarter of them so yes ntl are cheaper then most of the competition.

plus of course you can pick up your BT line and tell them to stuff it when they annoy you, and take it to one of their competitors - you can't do that with ntl. yes I find this very annoying and ntl offering phone line services must have kept them a LOT of customer's as it ties people down to them for broadband as well.

andygrif
06-11-2005, 01:26
You have showed example's of where ntl are not cheaper, but ntl offer free installation for a very long time now and this must be hitting their balance, BT wouldnt budge even when I offered to pay year line rental up front so BT seem to have a shrewd mind when it comes to minimum profit per customer. On broadband ntl have been very aggressive with their pricing and 1mbit for £9.99 not many isp's have matched that and how much of the competition offered triple play for £30? Then you have to bear in mind how easy it is to get retentions to give you a discount, ntl must have thousands of customers on some sort of discount probably at least a quarter of them so yes ntl are cheaper then most of the competition.

You're right, you can get ntl installed for free, as you can with Sky too. BT will connect an existing line for free, I guess pretty much all existing houses have BT lines in place, but I guess there are odd exceptions.

I was trying to sum up the vast majority in my post - but of course there will be exceptions in some cases. With regards to the triple play, no other supplier (until Sky's offer for EasyNet is approved) can offer that yet anyway - but when you break out the costs that most people pay, it's 10 quid for a phone, 20 quid for the TV and 20-25 quid for the internet - all of which are about average in the market.


plus of course you can pick up your BT line and tell them to stuff it when they annoy you, and take it to one of their competitors - you can't do that with ntl. yes I find this very annoying and ntl offering phone line services must have kept them a LOT of customer's as it ties people down to them for broadband as well.

I agree...and I am fully in favour of OFCOM intervening as they did with BT to ensure that consumers are not unfairly tied to a phone supplier. I have no real problem with the line itself from ntl, but I object to being held to overpriced calls compared to the offers that are out there.

arcamalpha2004
06-11-2005, 10:04
" On broadband ntl have been very aggressive with their pricing and 1mbit for £9.99 "


Yes agree, but then when you factor in around £10 for a line you may not want or need, the figures are'nt so attractive.
So I too would say it's wrong imo, but they get away with it.
A little like going into your local shop and seeing a sign over the baked beans aisle, " 20p for the beans, 5p for the big pallet its placed on! " ;)
But until someone comes along and offers a cheaper deal, not requiring you to have a phone line to take their tv they will get away with it.

toller
07-11-2005, 13:13
*ANOTHER UPDATE*

I was promised somone would call me back over the weekend but surprise surprise no one did. I have called NTL CS again this morning and as luck would have it the guy who originally promised he'd call me back in 20 minutes on saturday answered my call. Once he'd taken my details he commented that he remembered our conversation and then began a grovelling apology. He said he'd passed my details onto someone more senior and had assumed they'd call me as a matter of course.

He then said he would speak to someone about the construction team and call me back in 20 minutes. Lo and behold he did call back this time and said that a date for another attempt at installation had been arranged for the end of november but they thought this was too long to wait so were currently trying to arrange an earlier date. he also pointed out that it was now being dealt with by one of his supervisors and gave me an absolute guarantee that someone will call me today to let me know what is happening.

I have his name and extension so if I don't hear anything i'll be calling tomoorow to vent some more spleen. In all honesty the guy i spoke to was very nice and courteous and i can't help but think a big part of NTL's problems could be summed up as lions led by donkeys.

The saga continues.

arcamalpha2004
07-11-2005, 13:22
*ANOTHER UPDATE*

I was promised somone would call me back over the weekend but surprise surprise no one did. I have called NTL CS again this morning and as luck would have it the guy who originally promised he'd call me back in 20 minutes on saturday answered my call. Once he'd taken my details he commented that he remembered our conversation and then began a grovelling apology. He said he'd passed my details onto someone more senior and had assumed they'd call me as a matter of course.

He then said he would speak to someone about the construction team and call me back in 20 minutes. Lo and behold he did call back this time and said that a date for another attempt at installation had been arranged for the end of november but they thought this was too long to wait so were currently trying to arrange an earlier date. he also pointed out that it was now being dealt with by one of his supervisors and gave me an absolute guarantee that someone will call me today to let me know what is happening.

I have his name and extension so if I don't hear anything i'll be calling tomoorow to vent some more spleen. In all honesty the guy i spoke to was very nice and courteous and i can't help but think a big part of NTL's problems could be summed up as lions led by donkeys.

The saga continues.


Hope you get sorted :tu:

Why promise a call back only not to do it? this is getting too regular a practice, in my own experience too, if you're not going to call back do not promise to, easy is'nt it? because it just antagonises people more.

Neil
07-11-2005, 13:25
*ANOTHER UPDATE*

I was promised somone would call me back over the weekend but surprise surprise no one did. I have called NTL CS again this morning and as luck would have it the guy who originally promised he'd call me back in 20 minutes on saturday answered my call. Once he'd taken my details he commented that he remembered our conversation and then began a grovelling apology. He said he'd passed my details onto someone more senior and had assumed they'd call me as a matter of course.

He then said he would speak to someone about the construction team and call me back in 20 minutes. Lo and behold he did call back this time and said that a date for another attempt at installation had been arranged for the end of november but they thought this was too long to wait so were currently trying to arrange an earlier date. he also pointed out that it was now being dealt with by one of his supervisors and gave me an absolute guarantee that someone will call me today to let me know what is happening.

I have his name and extension so if I don't hear anything i'll be calling tomoorow to vent some more spleen. In all honesty the guy i spoke to was very nice and courteous and i can't help but think a big part of NTL's problems could be summed up as lions led by donkeys.

The saga continues.

Why would you bother giving a company that treats you like this at the beginning your hard earned cash? :shrug:

Chrysalis
07-11-2005, 13:31
andygrif, yeah I am not sure how the existing line thing works. Their is no phoneline here other then the ntl one but I think the reason for this is that this building used to be a house now converted to flats meaning that their probably orignally was a BT line somewhere in the building but the flats were supplied with ntl lines fitted, I wonder if this is common where houses have been converted to flat's.

andygrif
07-11-2005, 18:32
Hope you get sorted :tu:

Why promise a call back only not to do it? this is getting too regular a practice, in my own experience too, if you're not going to call back do not promise to, easy is'nt it? because it just antagonises people more.

Alpha, it's always been that way with regards to call backs - but they should have figured it out by now. I personally find it one of the most insulting things that someone can do on the phone to me - make a promise with absolutely no intention of following it up.

Personally I want a system in place that passes calls the best people to deal with them, and monitors whether they made the promised call or not. People who can't be bothered should be fired... or beaten...or both! ;)

toller
07-11-2005, 20:28
The cast iron guarantee that someone would call me back today was again a load of hot air. I had to call CS yet again and the person i spoke to this time suggested i call back again tomorrow if no one has contacted me by dinner time.

Tommorrow is the last call i'll be making, if they don't provide an install date and at least give me my first month half price or something then i'll be giving sky a call.

I would start kicking off at a CS supervisor but i've just had my widom teeth pulled out so even talking can be a bit sore :(

MovedGoalPosts
08-11-2005, 00:26
OK, this is going round and round in circles. That's no good.

Cable Forum has some senior contacts with ntl. We can raise this with them on your behalf if you like. If you wish to PM some details, that will only be held by CF until we know the issue has been resolved, we will see what can be sorted.

We need:
Account holder name,
Address including postcode
Account No (as on bills), assuming one has been issued
DAYTIME phone number (ntl will want to contact you)
email addy
Full details of what has actually occurred, with dates.

MovedGoalPosts
08-11-2005, 13:14
Toller, I've got your details by PM, and have forwarded them to our ntl contacts. Please keep us updated.

themelon
08-11-2005, 13:57
In the old days I'd have agreed with you Chrysalis - but ntl are no longer cheaper than anyone else:

It costs about the same for Sky as ntl TV, but they offer more for the same price.

It costs about the same for BT as ntl phone lines, but BT offer full itemised billing free, free caller display, a minimum charge rather than ntl's connection charge (which is in addition to the call costs) plus of course you can pick up your BT line and tell them to stuff it when they annoy you, and take it to one of their competitors - you can't do that with ntl.

And although I rate their broadband pretty highly, it's not really cheaper than the average DSL provider for 2mb, and in many cases more expensive.

But, despite paying market value for all these products, we still have to put up with below average levels of customer care and service.

I've spent three hours chasing round various departments within ntl in the last few days - just trying to cancel (as we're moving house). I've spoken to people who can only be described as socially inadequate, poorly trained and lacking in basic manners - and that's not the exception.

Sorry to the bods who work for ntl that read this - I know you think whenever I come out with this stuff that I'm having a go at you personally - but I'm not.

Almost without exception, whenever I try to call ntl about the most minor of problem they make matters 20 times worse. They lie, they make promises that they have no intention of keeping, they fail to keep proper notes, they fail to read notes properly, they cannot communicate with each other effectively and they appear to prefer to think of customers as enemies.

It's not their fault of course. The more human ones should be encouraged and properly trained - the rest of them should be kept in the back office away from being able to talk to customers...but then if you pay peanuts....

And all of that is the managers faults. They are obviously completely inept as they cannot seem to separate the potential staff that are able to listen and string a complete sentance together from the ones that sound like they should be featured on an episode of Little Britain.

They fail to train their staff properly (I had to explain to one what ADSL was the other day), they fail to keep them informed as to things that have already been advertised and they fail to motivate many of them to respond with more than a grunt.

Personally I'm glad to be getting shot of them. My nine years (listed building, can't have a dish) of hell are coming to an end - but they screwed up the installation all those years ago....they screwed getting my direct debit set up at the same time, they screwed me around regularly in the mean time and they're sure as hell not going to let me go without..guess what? .....

[/RANT]

Just a few points IMO:

Most of what Sky offer additionally is a complete waste of space and more annoyance than anything exciting however.

You can not tell BT to stick it, whether you like it or not you generally (except in a very few cases like One Tel) have to continue paying them for line rental, this is generally more annoying as you get more than one bill and clowns like Homecall who couldnt run a **** up in a brewery running services (however cheap they may seem). Sometimes if CPS or your 'Dialler Box' doesnt work correctly you get bills from two companies for the same calls which is nice!

With ADSL it is a bit hit and miss with speeds its always advertised up to 2Mb (blah blah blah subject to distance from exchange and line quality etc etc etc), I am supposed to get 2Mb, I actually get a rather pathetic 1Mb (at best). If you get it great if you dont there really is no comeback........even from OFCOM who say BT lines are only regualted by law to carry a 33.6kbs data service, what century are they in!

To be fair having dealt with numerous companies in the UK, Banks, Building Societies, Sky, BT, Homecall, Orange. 02. T-Mobile, Vodafone, Numerous Utilities companies I can safeley say that ntl are no worse and no better at offering customer serrvice, all are fine when things are going well but if something goes wrong in the UK your up **** creek, if anything ntl are more committed to sorting bad customer service than the likes of BT and Sky who just ignore it, Sky is particularly disgraceful with its National Rate number and current 30 minute wait times!

What you say regarding customer service is very true from my experience of Sky and BT, poorly trained, socially inept sums them up just niceley! Being passed from pillar to post also happens a lot throughout. Its a national problem!

The hell may just be beginning with Sky (and BT to a lesser extent)

Good luck!!

toller
08-11-2005, 15:59
Just has a call from a very nice lady called Gill as a result of this forum and it would now appear that things seem to be going in a forward direction. The installtion date she mentioned was a bit long to wait but it's better than not knowing and she has promised to call me back after she tries to get it moved forward.

Thanks everyone who's helped so far.

Russ
08-11-2005, 16:01
Just has a call from a very nice lady called Gill as a result of this forum and it would now appear that things seem to be going in a forward direction. The installtion date she mentioned was a bit long to wait but it's better than not knowing and she has promised to call me back after she tries to get it moved forward.

Thanks everyone who's helped so far.

If "Gill" had a Northern Ireland accent then I think it might have actually been 'Jill' and I have a sneaky suspicion I know who she is...:D

andygrif
08-11-2005, 16:16
Just a few points IMO:

Most of what Sky offer additionally is a complete waste of space and more annoyance than anything exciting however.

I guess that's just personal choice, although I would largely agree with you that the majority (not all) of the extra channels that Sky customers get are utter tosh. What I want, and what was promised many many years ago by ntl) was the interactive services. These are now very grown up on Sky (to the point of being able to watch several different programmes at one time on BBC Three, the multiscreen news on Sky News and BBC News, etc etc) which would actually be useful (well more useful than another soft porn or shopping channel anyway!)


You can not tell BT to stick it, whether you like it or not you generally (except in a very few cases like One Tel) have to continue paying them for line rental, this is generally more annoying as you get more than one bill and clowns like Homecall who couldnt run a **** up in a brewery running services (however cheap they may seem). Sometimes if CPS or your 'Dialler Box' doesnt work correctly you get bills from two companies for the same calls which is nice!

I think that's a bit outdated - nowadays you can take your pick from a reasonable selection of companies that literally take over your line - so you pay them for your line rental, not BT. Even so, BT do still own the line - it's just the other company that takes it over. Pretty much the majority of DSL providers now offer this as an extra source of revenue. Pipex have just started theirs, and of course Sky have announced that they will have a triple play offer available by the end of next year like ntl.


With ADSL it is a bit hit and miss with speeds its always advertised up to 2Mb (blah blah blah subject to distance from exchange and line quality etc etc etc), I am supposed to get 2Mb, I actually get a rather pathetic 1Mb (at best). If you get it great if you dont there really is no comeback........even from OFCOM who say BT lines are only regualted by law to carry a 33.6kbs data service, what century are they in!

I'd agree - DSL sounds like it can be a hit and miss affair - and as I acknowledged, this is the area (IMHO) that ntl are strongest. Saying that I know a few people who have DSL out in the Sytx and have great speeds. Swings and roudabouts I guess.


What you say regarding customer service is very true from my experience of Sky and BT, poorly trained, socially inept sums them up just niceley! Being passed from pillar to post also happens a lot throughout. Its a national problem!

You're absolutely right - although some companies have actually realised that this problem ends up costing them business, money and customers and are starting to do something about it. O2 used to be unbelievable incompetent and silly call queue times. This is much better than it was now (still not great, but full marks for effort so far) whereas (again IMHO) ntl have either stagnated or got worse in their dealings with customers. These issues are the same issues that were being discussed on this forum's precursor the best part of ten years ago - and manager after manager has tweaked the customer interface, but never tackled the rooty cause of the problems - hence the reason why they still exist.



The hell may just be beginning with Sky (and BT to a lesser extent)

Good luck!!

Errr...thanks...I think! I certainly won't be standing for 30 minute call queues from Sky at a national rate more than a couple of times without being refunded for sure. Saying that a few people I know have gone from their nt-hell to Sky and never needed to call them - so I guess as long as I fall into that category I'll be happy.

One thing is for sure - they couldn't be any worse than ntl's recent display to me.

toller
08-11-2005, 19:28
Could have been Jill, I always get confused with those two names :) Anyway true to her word she did phone me back and has arranged an installation date for 17th November so all being well my little problem is sorted.

A great many thanks to everyone on here and to Jill or Gill.

Kris

MovedGoalPosts
08-11-2005, 19:32
It's definitely Jill ;)

Glad to know things look to be resolved. Do let us know everything now goes to plan:)

toller
14-11-2005, 16:59
As a final addition to this thread i'd just like to add the my NTL services were finally installed this morning and so far everything seems to be working fine. Only problem we've had is that our phone number hasn't been transfered and we've been given someone elses. A minor niggle whihc we may infact keep as it'll stop us getting all the annoying calls we got on the old number.

A big thankyou to everyone on here who helped.

MovedGoalPosts
14-11-2005, 18:58
Nice to know you are now happy :tu:

SMHarman
14-11-2005, 19:15
Only problem we've had is that our phone number hasn't been transfered and we've been given someone elses. My parents had this for a few days before the number ported over also. It sorts itself out soon.

toller
14-11-2005, 22:41
Just when i thought It was all going well, i tried having a play around with the interactive stuff, got the screen that says press red to continue, pressed red and nothing happened. I left it a few minutes thinking it may have been downloading some sort of update but then none of the remote buttons would work but had to turn it off at the mains and wait a minute. When i turned it back on it gets stuck and just says "Tune" and it's been like that for about 20 minutes now and CS are closed.

I can feel a rage building :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: