View Full Version : Diesel Car Safety?
Wicked_and_Crazy
03-11-2005, 19:09
Something that happened to me this evening. Just wondered how many people would know what to do.
I just got my car back from the garage after a "repair" to a noisey Turbo. They hadnt repaired the problem despite the fact that they had the car for 2 days have charged for parts and work done which they say solved the problem but it hasnt. I took it back to make them aware of this and they have said they will collect it from my work place tomorrow.
Anyway, i got almost home and the noise (suspected turbo) gets worse and worse. When i get home i pull into the drive and suddenly the car revs and revs at about 5000 rpm (to be honest i didnt look).
So what would you do??
Switch off and take the key out? Nope did that and car kept reving at 5000 rpm.
Disconnect the battery? Nope did that and the car kept running?
I tried to contact the dealer to find out what to do and they had gone home!!! by the time i put the phone down, the car is still reving at 5000 rpm however there is now a small fire on the underside of the car!!
What do you do now?
homealone
03-11-2005, 19:23
either block the air intake or crimp the fuel line - or both...
Wicked_and_Crazy
03-11-2005, 19:25
either block the air intake or crimp the fuel line - or both...
Air intake is a huge cylinder and you cant get to the inlet pipe.
Crimp a fuel line? Couldnt see a soft one, could only see high presure pipes
A small fire?
Dial 999 now....
There should be a fuel cutoff switch/lever under the bonnet somewhere (read the manual) but I wouldn't try lifting the bonnet if a fire was present....
Try the AA or similar then sue the garage wo failed to fix your car.
Wicked_and_Crazy
03-11-2005, 19:30
A small fire?
Dial 999 now....
There should be a fuel cutoff switch/lever under the bonnet somewhere (read the manual) but I wouldn't try lifting the bonnet if a fire was present....
small fire was undernesth the car, prolly the exhaust.
Bonnet was open as i had disconnected the battery. but car is still running and fire brigade had been called
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Try the AA or similar then sue the garage wo failed to fix your car.
the garage will be getting some wrath tomorrow considering they made the car worse :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Cars still running at 5000rpm and on fire how do you stop it?
homealone
03-11-2005, 19:39
high pressure fuel lines are presumably downstream of the injectors, isn't there a soft hose leading to the fuel filter, that could be crimped??
the best way is to try & block the air intake, somehow .....
Wicked_and_Crazy
03-11-2005, 19:47
high pressure fuel lines are presumably downstream of the injectors, isn't there a soft hose leading to the fuel filter, that could be crimped??
the best way is to try & block the air intake, somehow .....
Couldnt see any
Not been able to find out how to stop but it is possibly caused by the idle revs being set too high. :shrug:
And the term is Dieseling
Wicked_and_Crazy
03-11-2005, 19:53
OK solution
Get in car, hand break on, stand on the breaks. Put in 5th gear and drop the clutch to stall the engine.
Not sure many people would think of that i guess so its useful information
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Not been able to find out how to stop but it is possibly caused by the idle revs being set too high. :shrug:
5000rpm!!
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So the next question is are the garage liable for this?
OK solution
Get in car, hand break on, stand on the breaks. Put in 5th gear and drop the clutch to stall the engine.
Not sure many people would think of that i guess so its useful information
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5000rpm!!
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So the next question is are the garage liable for this?
They aught to be, see here (http://www.cartalk.com/content/columns/Archive/1995/May/13.html)
Wicked_and_Crazy
03-11-2005, 19:59
They aught to be, see here (http://www.cartalk.com/content/columns/Archive/1995/May/13.html)
that link is about the engine not stopping immedialty that you turn the ignition off.
In my case the engine ran for 10 minutes, still didnt stop and reved harder than it ever has in its life!!
Possibly combined with an electrical fault causing your freaky problem. Definitely the garages fault though.
homealone
03-11-2005, 20:03
In my case the engine ran for 10 minutes, still didnt stop and reved harder than it ever has in its life!!
phew, glad you got it stopped, Gary - good thinking about stalling it :tu:
Wicked_and_Crazy
03-11-2005, 20:06
phew, glad you got it stopped, Gary - good thinking about stalling it :tu:
have to admit i panicked and a quick call to wise ole dad gave that bit of advice. Just thought it was useful advice, regardless of your cars fuel type
budwieser
03-11-2005, 20:06
Something that happened to me this evening. Just wondered how many people would know what to do.
I just got my car back from the garage after a "repair" to a noisey Turbo. They hadnt repaired the problem despite the fact that they had the car for 2 days have charged for parts and work done which they say solved the problem but it hasnt. I took it back to make them aware of this and they have said they will collect it from my work place tomorrow.
Anyway, i got almost home and the noise (suspected turbo) gets worse and worse. When i get home i pull into the drive and suddenly the car revs and revs at about 5000 rpm (to be honest i didnt look).
So what would you do??
Switch off and take the key out? Nope did that and car kept reving at 5000 rpm.
Disconnect the battery? Nope did that and the car kept running?
I tried to contact the dealer to find out what to do and they had gone home!!! by the time i put the phone down, the car is still reving at 5000 rpm however there is now a small fire on the underside of the car!!
What do you do now?
What car do you have Mate?
Faulty engine management system?
Wicked_and_Crazy
03-11-2005, 20:09
What car do you have Mate?
306 TD Sport
wierd just had a nug moment there, is was going to say a CHARiot
annoying thing is i was just about to try to sell it. The bad part of me says i should have let it burn!!!
budwieser
03-11-2005, 20:10
Faulty engine management system?
Diesels work on compression rather than a spark igniting the fuel .
Wicked_and_Crazy
03-11-2005, 20:11
Faulty engine management system?
i think the squeal noise was the turbo, and i think the turbo my have exploded in the end, but the cause of it reving itself to death i have no idea.
I know one thing, its good for constipation :D
budwieser
03-11-2005, 20:14
306 TD Sport
wierd just had a nug moment there, is was going to say a CHARiot
annoying thing is i was just about to try to sell it. The bad part of me says i should have let it burn!!!
The car carried on running regardless of ignition turned off, Battery disconnected etc because it has a Mechanical fuel pump rather than an electrical one such as most petrol version engined cars have.
As to why your problem occured, i`d like to see the car and have a look before making a comment.!
You would be better off taking it to a decent garage and telling them the problems so they can diagnose it properly for you, once you get a report, go back to the garage who did the work for you and take it from there.
By the way, what caught alight underneath the car?
Oily rags?, Did the correct fuel get put in the car ie diesel and not petrol? Maybe your catalytic converter was blocked and the back pressure kept the engine running!
Wicked_and_Crazy
03-11-2005, 20:20
The car carried on running regardless of ignition turned off, Battery disconnected etc because it has a Mechanical fuel pump rather than an electrical one such as most petrol version engined cars have.
As to why your problem occured, i`d like to see the car and have a look before making a comment.!
You would be better off taking it to a decent garage and telling them the problems so they can diagnose it properly for you, once you get a report, go back to the garage who did the work for you and take it from there.
it had just come back from the Peugeot dealer! you would assume they would be the best placed to determine the fault.
The thing i dont understand is that it should have a fuel cut out somewhere. With a turbo its a vicious circle, rev the car, turbo goes faster which makes the car go faster, hence the need for a rev limiter. But thats supposed to be linked to the throttle!!
budwieser
03-11-2005, 20:27
it had just come back from the Peugeot dealer! you would assume they would be the best placed to determine the fault.
The thing i dont understand is that it should have a fuel cut out somewhere. With a turbo its a vicious circle, rev the car, turbo goes faster which makes the car go faster, hence the need for a rev limiter. But thats supposed to be linked to the throttle!!
Cars only have a fuel cut off switch that cuts the fuel in the event of an accident and you have to push the button down to start the fuel flow again.
What year is your car?
I drive a 406 diesel and before that i had a 405 diesel and i would never let our local Peugeot dealer touch my car after my last experience with them! :disturbd:
What i can`t understand is why the car revved so high.
It sounds like a sticking fuel pump cable to me, get the throttle cable changed.
From the sounds of things you've had several issues at the same time.
Firstly the throttle got stuck open causing the high revs.
Then the fuel solenoid (which is what stops the engine running when you turn it off) got stuck open.
Your turbo would have raced, your oil temperature would have gone up too.
You've said you've had problems with the turbo, probably the bearings which would have created an excess heat and the fire.
A colleague's Audi did a similar thing on the M25 in the middle of the road works, the lining of the engine compartment didn't so much catch fire, as smoulder and drip off, although I think the bonnet lining did catch light.
Wicked_and_Crazy
03-11-2005, 20:57
Cars only have a fuel cut off switch that cuts the fuel in the event of an accident and you have to push the button down to start the fuel flow again.
What year is your car?
I drive a 406 diesel and before that i had a 405 diesel and i would never let our local Peugeot dealer touch my car after my last experience with them! :disturbd:
What i can`t understand is why the car revved so high.
It sounds like a sticking fuel pump cable to me, get the throttle cable changed.
its a 98 plate. Its the 1.9 diesel, just before the 2.0 HDi common rail diesel came out.
ermmm i dont think i'd be letting them touch it again either!!! other than i need it fixing now!! and for free ggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
budwieser
03-11-2005, 21:01
its a 98 plate. Its the 1.9 diesel, just before the 2.0 HDi common rail diesel came out.
ermmm i dont think i'd be letting them touch it again either!!! other than i need it fixing now!! and for free ggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Same as mine mate, pre hdi 1.9 diesel, mines on a 98 plate also.
Check your pm`s!
Nice engine to work on, the old 1.9TD
Had one in my Xantia, filled it with water during a flood, and once I drained it all, it still ran.
Wicked_and_Crazy
03-11-2005, 21:38
Nice engine to work on, the old 1.9TD
Had one in my Xantia, filled it with water during a flood, and once I drained it all, it still ran.
looking under the bonnet in mine i looks like they used a shoe horn to get it in.
Funnily the main reason for buying that car was the engine and ive had several things go wrong with it and now this major problem
looking under the bonnet in mine i looks like they used a shoe horn to get it in.
Funnily the main reason for buying that car was the engine and ive had several things go wrong with it and now this major problem
Yeah, it used to be like that with the 1.8D in my old 205's (shoehorn that is, not problems, never had any problems)
Sounds like you have something of a lemon.
Get the RAC or AA to do a full report on the car to take to the garage and demand they put right.
A friend bought a Corsa from a dodgy Vauxhall dealership in Basingstoke.
Was originally sold by them as new to an old lady and always serviced by that dealer.
My friend bought it at 2 years old.
We had a particularly cold winter, and it died on her as she pulled out of her road one morning.
It turns out the water pump wheel had sheered off, causing the cam belt to snap and damaging the engine.
The dealer said it was her fault and would be £1500 to repair, but as a good will gesture, they'd knock £200 off the price.
We took it to a cheaper garage to get the work done and straight away he pointed out there was no antifreeze in the coolant water, and rust in the water pump.
Suspecting that it had been running on just water since it's first service (while owned by the old lady) my friend got an RAC report done, which confirmed that due to long term running without anti-freeze there had been corrosion, and the water had frozen around the insides of the pump, causing the wheel to sheer off.
The dealership did the work for free, although they weren't very happy when they said it was done, and my friend had another RAC report done which showed they'd done a poor job, so had to do it again properly!
She got the dealership to pay for one of the RAC reports, and the other one was money well spent.
Wicked_and_Crazy
03-11-2005, 21:56
Yeah, it used to be like that with the 1.8D in my old 205's (shoehorn that is, not problems, never had any problems)
Sounds like you have something of a lemon.
Get the RAC or AA to do a full report on the car to take to the garage and demand they put right.
A friend bought a Corsa from a dodgy Vauxhall dealership in Basingstoke.
Was originally sold by them as new to an old lady and always serviced by that dealer.
My friend bought it at 2 years old.
We had a particularly cold winter, and it died on her as she pulled out of her road one morning.
It turns out the water pump wheel had sheered off, causing the cam belt to snap and damaging the engine.
The dealer said it was her fault and would be £1500 to repair, but as a good will gesture, they'd knock £200 off the price.
We took it to a cheaper garage to get the work done and straight away he pointed out there was no antifreeze in the coolant water, and rust in the water pump.
Suspecting that it had been running on just water since it's first service (while owned by the old lady) my friend got an RAC report done, which confirmed that due to long term running without anti-freeze there had been corrosion, and the water had frozen around the insides of the pump, causing the wheel to sheer off.
The dealership did the work for free, although they weren't very happy when they said it was done, and my friend had another RAC report done which showed they'd done a poor job, so had to do it again properly!
She got the dealership to pay for one of the RAC reports, and the other one was money well spent.
good idea getting the AA or someone to do a report first.
I think the only lemon was the numpty who did the work today!!
good idea getting the AA or someone to do a report first.
I think the only lemon was the numpty who did the work today!!
Yeah, a good mechanic is like gold dust.
Unfortunately, going to a main dealer doesn't mean you'll get a good mechanic, as I've found out before (had a Renault Laguna with turbo problems, they fiddled with it and did something with the intercooler, and 30,000 miles later the bearing blew. Thankfully Renault replaced it all under warenty even though I'd been a little late on my services).
Wicked_and_Crazy
06-11-2005, 23:28
spoke to an ex colleague from when a i worked for a diesel engine company. "we think" what happened was (hes seen this happen many times)
The turbo bearing failed or the casing cracked. The reason the engine reved its guts out was because the turbo was feeding its oil supply into the engine so the engine has an unregulated supply of fuel, a diesel engine can burn oil due to the high compression . Removing the ignition key only killed the diesel supply. As the engine was burning its own oil supply, stalling it was the only way to stop it, or let it burn its oil and let it lock itself up.
i wonder how much oil was left after 10 mins of 5000 rpm running. Very little i'd guess. New engine??
spoke to an ex colleague from when a i worked for a diesel engine company. "we think" what happened was (hes seen this happen many times)
The turbo bearing failed or the casing cracked. The reason the engine reved its guts out was because the turbo was feeding its oil supply into the engine so the engine has an unregulated supply of fuel, a diesel engine can burn oil due to the high compression . Removing the ignition key only killed the diesel supply. As the engine was burning its own oil supply, stalling it was the only way to stop it, or let it burn its oil and let it lock itself up.
i wonder how much oil was left after 10 mins of 5000 rpm running. Very little i'd guess. New engine??
Sounds like you've had it bad, I've had diesels but none that revved at high revs for nothing at all. Just pester the garage to get it sorted out.
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Yeah, a good mechanic is like gold dust.
Unfortunately, going to a main dealer doesn't mean you'll get a good mechanic, as I've found out before (had a Renault Laguna with turbo problems, they fiddled with it and did something with the intercooler, and 30,000 miles later the bearing blew. Thankfully Renault replaced it all under warenty even though I'd been a little late on my services).
I have one who lives 3 doors down from me :D :D :D He used to have his own garage but he fell off the rails when his wife left him a few years ago, he let the garage go downhill along with himself, he's back on his feet now working from home, I called upon him last week because our lass had problems with her indicators he came round fiddled with the switch bingo, indicators worked. Charge nothing thanks for being a mate he said.
Wicked_and_Crazy
07-11-2005, 10:09
Sounds like you've had it bad, I've had diesels but none that revved at high revs for nothing at all. Just pester the garage to get it sorted out.
Pester them?? I think sueing them for damages, distress etc is more appropriate
SMHarman
07-11-2005, 11:25
Or get the Vehicle Inspectorate to opine on whether this occurred as the reuslt of a design fault.
A taxi driver I use regularly has just got a new MPV, I commented on this, he told me why,
The CitrÃÃâ€*’¶en C8 he was using was recalled by CitrÃÃâ€*’¶en as a fault in the AC caused water to leak into the cabin, he had this fixed - twice. It did it again. This time, as before, the water pooled on the floor between the driver and pax seat and then found its way through the carpet into the tray under the carpet that housed the electronics. These got wet and one day as he is merrily driving along BOOM, all the airbags went off. VI consider this a design fault and are looking seriously at it. CitrÃÃâ€*’¶en C8 owners - pay attention to this recall. A couple of nasty burns on his arms and CitrÃÃâ€*’¶ens response so far, we'll pay to get the car reinstated and replace the airbags, and for the burns :shrug:.
Have you been on the phone to the garage yet?
Wicked_and_Crazy
07-11-2005, 13:21
Have you been on the phone to the garage yet?
yes, theyve had the car back with them since Friday morning, no news as yet though :mad:
Called them just before lunch and convienently enough the Servicing manager said "i was off sick last week so you need to speak to person X who is dealing with it and they are at lunch".
I did notice today that the tar on my driveway has melted slightly, i dont think its bad enought to be able to claim for though.
i wonder how high the courtesy car will rev :D
Wicked_and_Crazy
07-11-2005, 17:41
Suprise Suprise, the dealer is shirking all responsibility saying that it was caused by the Turbo actually failing. Funny that as i told them 4 weeks ago of the suspected turbo fault.
£950 for a reconditioned turbo to be fitted :Yikes: and they dont even know if its damaged the engine or the cost of the fire damage and they want me to pay!!:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Wicked_and_Crazy
14-12-2005, 21:54
well after a big fight and much threatening, i've almost got this resolved. Turns out that when they replaced the turbo inlet pipe, they dropped the pipe clip down the pipe and into the turbo, therefore destroying the turbo when the car was run
Eventually got all my money back, sold the car but never managed to squeeze a bean of compensation out of them.
Scarlett
14-12-2005, 23:13
Much as I hate myself for suggesting this, have you considered no win no fee suing ? this is precisely what the legislation was made for.
SMHarman
15-12-2005, 02:19
Or a small claims court proceeding, this will cost you £30 through Money Claim On Line (a govt site) and you can claim up to £5k.
Wicked_and_Crazy
15-12-2005, 08:43
they have offered a cheque to refund all my money, the is a Full and Final Offer. If i cash the cheque then ive accepted this and as its over £500 it makes you think twice about risking losing the cheque to get a bit more
I have written a letter to Trading standards and i think ill ring the regional manager this time, after the cheque has cleared ;) informing him that im still going to send it. May be just may be they are not so dumb and will make another offer. IF they dont then fine i'll send the cheque and ill get my satisfaction from seeing them get fined
SMHarman
15-12-2005, 09:34
Have you spoken to your Citizens Advice? Many Lawyers will give the first 30 mins for free, they could advise you on the action to take also.
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