Keeping fag smoke out of my flat [Archive]

Rillington

26-10-2005, 18:32

Need some advice about keeping cigarette smoke out of my flat please.

Basically, the situation is is that I lvee in a flat shared by one other person whose front door is on the other side of a shared landing, about one yard from mine. This person is also a chain smoker who consumes around 50 fags (prob more) per day, probably most of them isndie her flat because this person works during the day but when she doesn't she sits in her living room - about five yards from me - smoking non stop and despite there being two closed doors, the smoke gets into my living room to an extent where my living room smells like a pub and full of cigarette smoke, often strong enough for me to smell.

Has anybody any ideas on how I can keep her cigarette smoke out of my flat without causing offence, as I do get on with my neighbour and is in every other way the perfect neighbour - totally quiet, rspectful of privacy etc.

I really am unable to cope with fag smoke at the best of times (and tend to avoid going to pubs etc) and obviously don't need it in my living room 24/7 and I don't want to die from passive smoking and I don't particularly want to move but this is a major concern and something I need to sort becuase I can't live in my bedroom (which is closed off from the living room).

Any help appreciated.

Hom3r

26-10-2005, 18:40

You could look at anti tobacco deo-derisers or some ionozers

Ramrod

26-10-2005, 18:46

If you increase the air pressure inside your flat slightly you will tend to keep her smoke out. Try getting an air conditioning unit and see if that helps. Alternatively, point a slow fan at the door that the smoke is entering through......

Rillington

26-10-2005, 22:13

would an air conditioning unit be cheap and would I put it inside the flat or on the communal landing?

Also, would an antitobacco deoderiser remove the smoke or just the smell? Air fresheners remove the smell but not the smoke?

Hom3r

26-10-2005, 22:21

would an air conditioning unit be cheap and would I put it inside the flat or on the communal landing?

Depends on the size of house/flat and type of unit.

Also, would an antitobacco deoderiser remove the smoke or just the smell? Air fresheners remove the smell but not the smoke?

A deodouriser would get rid of the smell only. Ionizoers may help reduce the smoke (I'm not 100% on this thay help get rid of dust)

MovedGoalPosts

26-10-2005, 22:26

An Aircon unit would prove quite expensive, and chilly during the winter. You wouldn't be able to put it on the communal landing. That space is not yours, and indeed some may argue an electric appliance there is a potential hazard of obstruction, possibly fire, etc on the means of escape route.

Look closely at the seals around the entrance door to your flat. Maybe fit draught excluders, all the way round, including across the floor. However full eradication may be difficult, depending on how the building was put together, there may be all sorts of hidden routes for the smoke to percolate.

Is there any way to improve ventialtion of the common landing - get the smoke smells out from there before they get to your flat.

The expensive solution is mechanical ventilation, pressurising your flat slightly. That means a fan or two pushing fresh air from outside the building direct into your flat.

Don't be tempted to block off too many vents to keep stuff out. If you don't allow air to be replaced you can end up with all sorts of condensation issues.

Chris W

26-10-2005, 22:32

are you in rented accomodation?

if so is your front door a fire door? if it is then it should have smoke seals on- and these should help to keep the smoke out. If there is no smoke seal on a firedoor you can ask the landlord to replace the seal as it will fail a fire inspection.

Rillington

27-10-2005, 01:21

Graham

27-10-2005, 01:34

Is there a window or vent on the stairs? Installing an extractor fan there might be a possibility.

daxx

27-10-2005, 04:35

get a bathroom fan kit from a DIY store, vent to the outside and your living room and install the fan backwards, result fresh air in, positive pressure keeping smoke out and reasonably cheaply.

Kliro

27-10-2005, 20:41

Think Chris W has it, rented accomodation has to pass fire inspections, phone the council and tell them that your door isnt properly protected because smoke comes through.

Chris W

27-10-2005, 20:49

Council flat Chris and both flat entrances are at top of shared stairs, hers one yard from mine. Through the door is the only way it can get in.

Rob, are you referring to rubber draft strips as has been sugegsted elsewhere? I am told you can get ones specifically for tobacco poison.

In order to pass a fire inspection, they must be the "brush" type strips, and be along the length of the side of the door. However, afaik there are no regulations about the bottom of the door so this may still cause you problems...

MovedGoalPosts

27-10-2005, 21:11

There is no compulsion, as far as I know, if the style of entrance door is original to the flat, and complied with the regulations when it was built, to improve it. Thus if there were no cold smoke seals (the brush strips), or intumescent strips (these would swell up in a fire creating a seal), there is no requirement to retrofit.

Most older doors were not provided with seals, but had thicker door stops (the bit of wood in the frame that the door butts against when closed. Most door frames only have stops of around 12mm, but older fire door frames were up to 25mm (1") thick.

If however the door needs to be replaced, then it should meet the standards applicable at teh time of replacement. So a new door today would need brush seals and intumescent strips to achieve a full 30/30 fire resitance.

In fact the fire door on the entrance to a flat is not about keeping fire out of your property, from next door, but more to contain the problem within the flat that has the fire, so that the staircase (means of escape) can still be safely used.

As for the bottom of the door, as smoke and heat rise, generally there are no seals. A sensible standard however is the gap shouldn't exceed 3mm between finished floor (carpet or other covering) and door underside.

Ramrod

27-10-2005, 22:18

would an air conditioning unit be cheap and would I put it inside the flat or on the communal landing?You should put it inside the first room in the path of her smoke, so that the air pressure in that room is slightly greater....unfortunately they are not cheap....

clarie

27-10-2005, 23:06

Rillington

28-10-2005, 15:41

Is there a window or vent on the stairs? Installing an extractor fan there might be a possibility.

There is no air vent on the stairs and no power supply either.
__________________

You should put it inside the first room in the path of her smoke, so that the air pressure in that room is slightly greater....unfortunately they are not cheap....

have had a look and we are talking ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£160.

Also there is no power supply on the communal stairs.

zing_deleted

28-10-2005, 15:44

I think you could ask her. Be extremely polite about it, but just ask if she could possibly smoke near an open window or something. I am sure she would be reasonable if she is, as you say, totally reasonable. She sounds nice and I am sure she could help to come up with a fair solution if you could compromise too.

Most smokers in my experience will tell you where to go.They will happily argue there right to smoke where they want and poo poo anyones arguements about theres rights being infringed.I at this juncture argue about the residues of my bad habits(curry and beer) and ask how they would like my waste all over them.Ive often been offered violence but oh well ;)
My response to the op would be if the door has regular draft proofing I doubt theres much getting into his flat.He most probably smells the revolting condition of the womans flat and belongings ;)
Im an ex smoker btw the worst kind :disturbd:

Rillington

28-10-2005, 15:56

I think she will tell me where to go (argueing that she has the right to smoke in ehr own flat and that there are two clsoed doors which means that no smoke gets into my flat) and would take offence resulting in a very awkward situation.

There isn't any form of draft proofing and there is a gap of about 5 mm right around the edges apart from the bottom where the gap is virtually nothing.

orangebird

28-10-2005, 16:28

Most smokers in my experience will tell you where to go.They will happily argue there right to smoke where they want and poo poo anyones arguements about theres rights being infringed.I at this juncture argue about the residues of my bad habits(curry and beer) and ask how they would like my waste all over them.Ive often been offered violence but oh well ;)
My response to the op would be if the door has regular draft proofing I doubt theres much getting into his flat.He most probably smells the revolting condition of the womans flat and belongings ;)
Im an ex smoker btw the worst kind :disturbd:

Yep, you're right, we'd tell you to **** right off, you moaning ****ers, cos we're all selfish murderers who couldn't give a toss about anyone else. Fags rule.

:rolleyes:
__________________

I think she will tell me where to go (argueing that she has the right to smoke in ehr own flat and that there are two clsoed doors which means that no smoke gets into my flat) and would take offence resulting in a very awkward situation.

There isn't any form of draft proofing and there is a gap of about 5 mm right around the edges apart from the bottom where the gap is virtually nothing.

You say in your OP that your neighbours is perfect in every other way - why do you think she'll tell you where to go? She might be mortified that she's offending you. You've nothing to lose by asking her if there's anything she can do to help. If she does say no, get onto your council.

zing_deleted

28-10-2005, 16:28

and theres my point proven :)

orangebird

28-10-2005, 16:29

and theres my point proven :)

Sarcasm. Learn what that means. :dunce:

andyl

28-10-2005, 16:29

Yep, you're right, we'd tell you to **** right off, you moaning ****ers, cos we're all selfish murderers who couldn't give a toss about anyone else. Fags rule.

:rolleyes:

Heh! Heh! Tell you what though isn't there a phrase about jest and words never being truer and all that?

zing_deleted

28-10-2005, 16:29

Sarcasm. Learn what that means. :dunce:

Maybe just maybe I was being sarcastic all along ;) :D

orangebird

28-10-2005, 16:32

Heh! Heh! Tell you what though isn't there a phrase about jest and words never being truer and all that?

There is. Load of old ******* if you ask me though.

If I was Rillingtons neighbour and had been told that my smoke was ruining his own space, I'd be gutted and try and rectify it immediately. I don't like the fact that people assume that because you're a smoker, you don't give a rats ass for anything or anyone and hold complete contempt for anyones personal space and comfort, because it's not true.

Kliro

28-10-2005, 16:57

If you want to avoid confrontation, and a possible falling out, this looks good:

http://www.bpindex.co.uk/manf.html?id=7172

Havnt been able to find out where you can buy them from though....

Rillington

28-10-2005, 18:04

I'd rather find a solution without a possible confrontation with my neighbour, who I have to live alongside. I am 99% that I would cause offence should I mention it and knowing the person as I do from others, it wouldn't make any difference and she would continue with ehr smoking behaviour in the same way regardless.

clarie

29-10-2005, 15:13

Stuart

29-10-2005, 15:31

Rllington, can you fit draught excluders to the door? I don't know if your landlord will allow you to fit them, but they should work if he will

patrickp

29-10-2005, 16:35

knowing the person as I do from others, it wouldn't make any difference and she would continue with ehr smoking behaviour in the same way regardless.
I thought you said she was really considerate in every other way?

That's not as inconsistent as it seems. Smokers often have a lot of trouble understanding the problems their smoking causes other people, because it doesn't cause them the same problems, or if it does, they don't recognise/admit it.

I remember a few years back, a friend of mine who smokes asked to look at her TV: the picture was getting dimmer and dimmer. I had a look, and even adjusting the brightness and contrast controls didn't help. Then I realised the screen had a black coating on it; IIRC soap and water wouldn't touch it and I had to use meths on it. This thick black layer came off and, all of a sudden, her picture was back to normal.

The point of this is that a smoker wouldn't be likely to think that their smoking might cause this problem; despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, most smokers honestly believe that it isn't problematic.

Ramrod

29-10-2005, 16:58

have had a look and we are talking ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£160.

Also there is no power supply on the communal stairs.You would need to put the air con unit in your flat, in the first room that gets affected by her smoke-not on the stairs....

Rillington

30-10-2005, 21:50

Ah right ramrod. I would place it next to the door.

Stuart, would the draught excluders go on the side of the door which is the communal landing side or on my side?
__________________

That's not as inconsistent as it seems. Smokers often have a lot of trouble understanding the problems their smoking causes other people, because it doesn't cause them the same problems, or if it does, they don't recognise/admit it.

I remember a few years back, a friend of mine who smokes asked to look at her TV: the picture was getting dimmer and dimmer. I had a look, and even adjusting the brightness and contrast controls didn't help. Then I realised the screen had a black coating on it; IIRC soap and water wouldn't touch it and I had to use meths on it. This thick black layer came off and, all of a sudden, her picture was back to normal.

The point of this is that a smoker wouldn't be likely to think that their smoking might cause this problem; despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, most smokers honestly believe that it isn't problematic.

I agree with everything you say.

Looks like we might have a series of solutions - druaht excluders to keep it out when door is clsoed and air condition unit to remove when smoke goes through door when open.

Stuart

30-10-2005, 22:04

Ah right ramrod. I would place it next to the door.

Stuart, would the draught excluders go on the side of the door which is the communal landing side or on my side?

There are some at http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Hardware/DraughtExcluders/d170/sd2802 . I wouldn't think that it mattered which side of the door you attach them. However, the landlord might object, so you would need to check with them first.

You can also get self-adhesive ones (or even self-adhesive foam tape - that goes around the edge of the door). The landlord may be more likely to agree to these, as they won't be permanent alterations.

If it's just the smell you obect to, then I find the best air freshener is Neutradol Gel (http://www.neutradol.com/uk/range-continuous.html), which seems to be the only air freshener that actually neutralises smells, rather than disguises them.

Rillington

30-10-2005, 22:11

Tis a council flat and I would be amazed if there was any objection, especially given the reason! I've already fitted a security grill to the door and another lock and there were no objections!

The smell is horrible but I want rid of the smoke, which is what does the damage.

Rillington

26-11-2005, 16:19

To update, I am now looking into buying an air purifier as getting to a DIY shop isn't easy where I live. Argos have a page full iof them and the descriptions tell me that it helps "remove smoke odouers" and I assume this means removes the poison and not just the smell.

Would it be adviseable to get one of these devices and how easy is it to get replacement filerds?

Finally, there is one device priced at £80, which "uses ionic technology to clean the air without filters." Is this worth getting or should I get one with filters?

Horace

26-11-2005, 16:30

My first though was draft excluders as Stuart C suggested. Might even save you money too since if the gap is large enough to allow cigarette smoke in it'll probably be big enough to let plenty of heat out. I think there's also (or was) some kind of energy efficiency charity that will supply and fit them for you.

Nidge

26-11-2005, 16:32

Isn't there a window on the landing you could open?

Rillington

26-11-2005, 16:34

Thank you for that tip.

Yes, draft excluders are also very much still being considered its just getting to a DIY store and getting the exclusers back isn't that straight forward!

In addition, the flat is located on top of a hill with a busy road close by. This also brings with it car fumes which also get into the flat. Therefore, a purifier would help in this regard too.
---------- added 26-11-2005 at 16:34 ----------

Isn't there a window on the landing you could open?

No. The communal stairwell is totally enclosed, with no window.

Nidge

26-11-2005, 20:00

Thank you for that tip.

Yes, draft excluders are also very much still being considered its just getting to a DIY store and getting the exclusers back isn't that straight forward!

In addition, the flat is located on top of a hill with a busy road close by. This also brings with it car fumes which also get into the flat. Therefore, a purifier would help in this regard too.
---------- added 26-11-2005 at 16:34 ----------

No. The communal stairwell is totally enclosed, with no window.

Mmm surley you should have a window on the landing, what happens if there is a fire?