View Full Version : police officers in the force
one bbc journalist gets to be one of 'them' and uncovers the racism thats still there within the force
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3210614.stm
The Secret Policeman is being broadcast in England, Wales and Northern Ireland on BBC One on Tuesday at 2100 BST. It will be shown in Scotland at 2235 BST
I think that racisum probably exists in all services (Pol, Amb and Fire) - It certainly does in the forces
Life I suppose - Shame but that's the country and mentallity we live in.
[/Gets of high horse]
I dont know what the BBC is trying to prove. Its just going to push it more underground. Nothing is going to change
Isn't this the one where all the convictions resulting from this "undercover" reporter's arrests have been overturned?
Chimaera
21-10-2003, 22:35
No Xaccers - I think 4 of them have been suspended and the undercover reporter arrested!
Have just watched the programme and found it quite disturbing - especially that the 4 young officers involved seemed quite proud of their racist attitudes. :(
Niles Crane
21-10-2003, 22:38
Damn i missed it, any repeat?
No Xaccers - I think 4 of them have been suspended and the undercover reporter arrested!
Have just watched the programme and found it quite disturbing - especially that the 4 young officers involved seemed quite proud of their racist attitudes. :(
I caught the last bit where one was bragging how he gave an asian a £200 fine but let a white person off for the same offence. :grind:
Interesting that the police had requested a copy of the programme before it aired and the bbc hadn't responded...
What I thought was amusing was the guy from the Association of Black Police officers (or whatever it's called) on GMTV this morning saying they need more black and ethnic minority officers to combat racism in the force.
Yeah, like black and ethnic people are never racist are they....
Chimaera
21-10-2003, 22:44
Well if the police had seen it before transmission I'm sure they would have got a court injunction preventing the BBC from showing it!
I wonder what will happen to the 4 suspended officers?
And one of the instructors seemed a bit suspect to me too.
it was a well put togethor program by the bbc highlighting the issue of racism in the police force its there its rife i dont think better police training would help although telling them not to do this and that may push them to keep feelings of a racist nature to themselves that was clearly shown to be the case
Yeah, like black and ethnic people are never racist are they....
who said that ?
the majorty of racist abuse is against black people but as the program has shown people who are pakistani's are targeted more...........
I think that some chief constable said it best on tv tonight....'racism is endemic in this society (and probably worldwide imo) and it is therefore endemic in the police force'
I personally think that the sooner we all intermarry and have mixed race kids and then those kids intermarry..etc, the better. But we will probably then find something else to fight about:shrug:
who said that ?
the majorty of racist abuse is against black people but as the program has shown people who are pakistani's are targeted more...........Of course black people are racist (some of them) as are some Pakistanis...and so on. It isn't nice but it's a fact and owning up to it is the first step to overcoming it.
who said that ?
By saying "We need more black people and ethnic minorities in the force to combat racism" implies that they are completely innocent of racism. I don't doubt that they are on the recieving end more often but he could have chosen his words better....unless that's what he really thinks, which could turn out to be an even bigger problem in itself.
Of course black people are racist (some of them) as are some Pakistanis...and so on. It isn't nice but it's a fact and owning up to it is the first step to overcoming it.
i never denied that what i am saying is the problem the bigger problem is racism against black people
this was proven in the program hence the need for such programs to be aired
Niles Crane
21-10-2003, 22:56
Russ D, We all know minorities can be as racist as the next guy, you dumbarse - stop repeatedly spouting your rebelious nonsense at every possible attempt. We're talking about anti non-white racism in the police. Stick to the subject instead of trying to shy away from it with that victimisation mentality i was talking to Ramrod about earlier.
By saying "We need more black people and ethnic minorities in the force to combat racism" implies that they are completely innocent of racism. I don't doubt that they are on the recieving end more often but he could have chosen his words better....unless that's what he really thinks, which could turn out to be an even bigger problem in itself.
i have explained twice now and wont go in to the innocence you seem to think blacks have....
[QUOTE=Russ D]
I don't doubt that they are on the recieving end more often but he could have chosen his words better....[QUOTE]
my own feeling is having more black people in the force wont solve anything you have to kill the problem at its root and thats a better training system in the training centres actually inviteing views and if anyone is deemed to show racist views to any race or colour they should face expulsion
Russ D, We all know minorities can be as racist as the next guy, you dumbarse - stop repeatedly spouting your rebelious nonsense at every possible attempt. We're talking about anti non-white racism in the police. Stick to the subject instead of trying to shy away from it with that victimisation mentality i was talking to Ramrod about earlier.
Listen 'sonny' I've just as much a right to air my views on this as you do. You don't agree with me? Tough. Emphasising racism like this on blacks will only make it harder for a white victim to step forward and feel believed.
And watch your tone.
i have explained twice now and wont go in to the innocence you seem to think blacks have....
I'm not saying black are innocent or act it either. I'm just saying he used a very poor choice of wording.
my own feeling is having more black people in the force wont solve anything you have to kill the problem at its root and thats a better training system in the training centres actually inviteing views and if anyone is deemed to show racist views to any race or colour they should face expulsion
Spot on, I agree 100%
Emphasising racism like this on blacks will only make it harder for a white victim to step forward and feel believed.
no it wont there are proccedures russ that should a complaint be brought up it will be looked in to
this program was about racism against black people especially pakistanis which seem to take the brunt of the abuse examples were given througout the show of the bias those officers had when it came to speeding etc
i never denied that what i am saying is the problem the bigger problem is racism against black people
this was proven in the program hence the need for such programs to be airedAbsolutely agree but the same thing happens in reverse when the boot is on the other foot. In other countries for instance.
..and I'm not saying that one is an excuse for the other....before anyone starts.....
no it wont there are proccedures russ that should a complaint be brought up it will be looked in to
Oh yeah, I know it will be looked in to but racism against a black person and a white person - which one do YOU think will be taken more seriously?
Niles Crane
21-10-2003, 23:07
Russ D, far from it. I agree with you wholeheartedly.
Just having more ethnic minorities in the police isnt going to solve anything, and that policeman is foolish for thinking so. What annoys me is your arrogant and sarcastic tone in saying it.
"Yeah, like black and ethnic people are never racist are they...." :rolleyes:
The major problem is racism on minorities. It has to be emphasised. Like it or lump. And your inability to comment on the subject, but rather complain about and change it, isnt going to help either way.
Russ D, We all know minorities can be as racist as the next guy, you dumbarse - stop repeatedly spouting your rebelious nonsense at every possible attempt. We're talking about anti non-white racism in the police. Stick to the subject instead of trying to shy away from it with that victimisation mentality i was talking to Ramrod about earlier.:rofl: For the record, I have no 'victimisation mentality'.:D
'dumbarse' rotflmao:rofl: ...thats really funny!
What annoys me is your arrogant and sarcastic tone in saying it
I'm sorry you took it that way although I'll refrain from calling you a 'dumbarse'......
The guy on TV should have chosen his words more appropriately if he did not want to give that impression. It was also being discussed on Radio 5 this morning too.
Oh yeah, I know it will be looked in to but racism against a black person and a white person - which one do YOU think will be taken more seriously?
id expect any form of racism to be treated with the same seriousness because it is serious....
Night all, see y'awl tomorrow:)
id expect any form of racism to be treated with the same seriousness because it is serious....
Yes, you would because (usually ;)) you are sensible and are not trying to score political brownie points. Racism definately is a problem and yes, whites are more often the instigators but unfortunately when we are the victims, we are very rarely treated the same way.
Racism in the police force hmm.
Black Police Association now what would happen if some police officers wanted a White Police Association
I think society has helped create much of the racism about today. Everything's PC (pardon the pun)
So are white unbiggotted heterosexual men the last unsupported ethnic minority? :D
Yes, youwhites are more often the instigators but unfortunately when we are the victims, we are very rarely treated the same way.
please provide proof that black on white racism is not treated seriously
oh and as for your usally comment i am sensible cant blame me for unwinding sometimes :rolleyes:
Niles Crane
21-10-2003, 23:20
Racism in the police force hmm.
Black Police Association now what would happen if some police officers wanted a White Police Association
I think society has helped create much of the racism about today. Everything's PC (pardon the pun)
Poor example. Give logical reasons for a WPA. Theres plenty for a BPA. Because there is a BPA, is not a logical for there to be a WPA. This isnt a school playground.
Poor example. Give logical reasons for a WPA. Theres plenty for a BPA.
Perhaps white police officers are feeling victimised and require an offically recognised group to back them up?
please provide proof that black on white racism is not treated seriously
Last year there were 2 drunken white blokes walking down a street in Port Talbot which has an unusually high number of Indian families. The two blokes were shouting "Paki b******s" etc as they stumbled down the street. They weren't immediately caught but within 30 minutes there were police cars everywhere, officers were taking statements left-right-and-centre, door to door enquiries....I can't quite see that happening in the reverse situation.
Niles Crane
21-10-2003, 23:25
Russ D, about 97% of police officers are white. They already have a WPA. Thats the point and part of the reason (i'm not saying they're right, or wrong) for minirity associations - because they're a minority. Its simple psychology, which i'm sure you already understand.
Russ D, about 97% of police officers are white. They already have a WPA. Thats the point and part of the reason (i'm not saying they're right, or wrong) for minirity associations - because they're a minority. Its simple psychology, which i'm sure you already understand.
I'm sure the case of the BPA was just an example. There's a publication called Black Britain - will we ever hear of one called White Britain?
Out of curiosity, if it were ever to be the case that the higher percentage of police were black, would you be in favour of disbanding thw BPA and there being a WPA in its place?
Last year there were 2 drunken white blokes walking down a street in Port Talbot which has an unusually high number of Indian families. The two blokes were shouting "Paki b******s" etc as they stumbled down the street. They weren't immediately caught but within 30 minutes there were police cars everywhere, officers were taking statements left-right-and-centre, door to door enquiries....I can't quite see that happening in the reverse situation.
im sure the incident you mentioned in those words was slightly overhyped ?
but im not denying anything what i will say is that this poor 'white guys' attitude
wont help any racist situation as i said i have seen no proof of mis investigations about racism against whites.....
im sure the incident you mentioned in those words was slightly overhyped ?
Nope. If the South wales Evening Post still had the link I'd post to it. It caused uproar in the community.
The two guys were caught and setenced to community service, incidentaly.
Niles Crane
21-10-2003, 23:40
I'm sure the case of the BPA was just an example. There's a publication called Black Britain - will we ever hear of one called White Britain?
Out of curiosity, if it were ever to be the case that the higher percentage of police were black, would you be in favour of disbanding thw BPA and there being a WPA in its place?
In answer to your first point: theres plenty of publications like "White Britain". They're filled with racism and white supremacy though. Untill whites are a minority in the UK, which will probably be never (or at least not in our lifetime), then you'll never see a publication like "White Britain" which ISNT written by racists. Black Britain isnt a racist publication.
Of course.
The two guys were caught and setenced to community service, incidentaly.
so where is the bias again ?
they were dealt with in the same manner as any other type of racism would be
there needs to be a crack down on all forms of racism
In answer to your first point: theres plenty of publications like "White Britain".
But curiously none are actually called White Britain".
They're filled with racism and white supremacy though
And which ones would they be??
Black Britain doesnt promote segregation, racism, supremacy or anything of the sort.
I've never read it so maybe you're right, but with a name like that, can you not see how it's more than just a little provoking? It's like saying "Yes you can have discriminating titles as long as you are the minority"
so where is the bias again ?
The bias was in the way the police went about investigating it, many local councilors referred to it as 'overkill'.
Niles Crane
21-10-2003, 23:58
Russ D, a year or two ago i did a little bit of web research on white supremacy and the like (merely observing) - or rather, the people who preach and those who take it in - and it was one of the most horrible experiences of my life. And i'd really prefer not to dredge up such memories of these vile "human beings" again. I literally feel sick just thinking about it.
I'll certainly not post a link, but merely add .org to stormfront and you'll come across an amalgamation of some of the most ill people on this planet. Please, look for yourself and do not discuss.
Ask your local neo-nazi
As far as I know I don't have one 'near', but seeing as you brought it up I was hoping you could bring some substance to the discussion on this.
the likes of Stormfront comes to mind
:confused: Never heard of it....
Yeah i can see how its provoking - to those who could care less
That just about sums it up for me tonight......
Niles Crane
22-10-2003, 00:08
Russ D, a year or two ago i did a little bit of web research on white supremacy and the like (merely observing) - or rather, the people who preach and those who take it in - and it was one of the most horrible experiences of my life. And i'd really prefer not to dredge up such memories of these vile "human beings" again. I literally feel sick just thinking about it.
I'll certainly not post a link, but merely add .org to stormfront and you'll come across an amalgamation of some of the most ill people on this planet. Please, look for yourself and do not discuss.
Ok going on your experiences I'm sure it was nasty, just as I'm sure there would be equally unpleasant sites regarding black supremacy (although I'd agree there may be less). I'm not fully clued up on this but I'm sure I wouldn't be made welcome if the Nation of Islam held a meeting in Port Talbot Civic Centre.
aliferste
22-10-2003, 08:28
I dont know what the BBC is trying to prove. Its just going to push it more underground. Nothing is going to change
Dont be such a defeatest Defiant!!
Things are changing for the better......there had been massive changes in just the last ten years!!
Remember......what people actually think doesnt matter....that is too much too change.......as long as they speak and act in a non racist manner then that is good enough!!
aliferste
22-10-2003, 08:32
What I thought was amusing was the guy from the Association of Black Police officers (or whatever it's called) on GMTV this morning saying they need more black and ethnic minority officers to combat racism in the force.
Yeah, like black and ethnic people are never racist are they....
A bit like an Ant hitting an Elephant i would have thought!
aliferste
22-10-2003, 08:35
Black Police Association now what would happen if some police officers wanted a White Police Association
Yes, defiant......its called the "police force"!
aliferste
22-10-2003, 08:37
Perhaps white police officers are feeling victimised and require an offically recognised group to back them up?
Last year there were 2 drunken white blokes walking down a street in Port Talbot which has an unusually high number of Indian families. The two blokes were shouting "Paki b******s" etc as they stumbled down the street. They weren't immediately caught but within 30 minutes there were police cars everywhere, officers were taking statements left-right-and-centre, door to door enquiries....I can't quite see that happening in the reverse situation.
Thats because they would have got a kicking.......or more probably they would have been stopped long before they got there!
Congratulations to Mark Daly and his team "The Secret Policeman" for first class investigative and undercover journalism. This kind of programming provides a service to the community. It is quite astonishing how the Greater Manchester Police acted so speedily to arrest Mark Daly under the charge of: "on suspicion of obtaining a pecuniary advantage by deception" staggering that they can when they wish move very fast.
Racism within institutions such as the police service must be dealt with, it is of course extremely difficult. Clearly, as far as recruitment goes something needs to be done to weed out those who are sick with racism and try to help those who are just innocently ignorant. Some of the officers who were featured seemed to find it difficult to form sentences without using the f word which ought to be a clue as to their character. Perhaps given references are not followed through carefully? Once upon a time 5 O' levels were required for entry to the police service, one imagines in desperation to recruit the police service will accept anyone who applies!
It leaves good citizens and sincere police officers feeling uncomfortable; we know far too many people are racially prejudiced and conjure up in their minds all sorts of arguments that satisfies their reasoning and justifies their attitudes; to overcome these attitudes is extremely difficult and is a long uphill task.
:wavey:
Tightscot
22-10-2003, 09:26
ezenden you bitch you stole my avatar....... :2up:
EDIT: well the one i use on .com ........ :dunce:
Thats because they would have got a kicking
So whites are more violent then?
Dont be such a defeatest Defiant!!
Things are changing for the better......there had been massive changes in just the last ten years!!
Remember......what people actually think doesnt matter....that is too much too change.......as long as they speak and act in a non racist manner then that is good enough!!
Oh yes. The head of police on skynews this morning has just said its getting worse and as I've said to you many times before it will carry on getting worse. Things are going to kick off if nothings done
Yes, defiant......its called the "police force"!
NOPE.
Ethnics have helped to keep the them and us attitude
Poor example. Give logical reasons for a WPA. Theres plenty for a BPA. Because there is a BPA, is not a logical for there to be a WPA. This isnt a school playground.I'm sure we've had this discussion before, was it on .com?
As a result, one officer has resigned ...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3203287.stm
Niles Crane
22-10-2003, 13:09
I'm sure we've had this discussion before, was it on .com?
Yes, exactly the same.
Tightscot; you snooze, you lose ;)
aliferste
22-10-2003, 14:43
Oh yes. The head of police on skynews this morning has just said its getting worse and as I've said to you many times before it will carry on getting worse. Things are going to kick off if nothings done
What do you think should be done?
aliferste
22-10-2003, 14:46
So whites are more violent then?
No, what im saying is that more people would be wanting to go out and challenge two asian blokes walking down the steet shouting "you white ba...." Although it does not often happen, certainly less than white people hurling abuse at black people.
aliferste
22-10-2003, 14:49
NOPE.
Ethnics have helped to keep the them and us attitude
I dont understand this?
No, what im saying is that more people would be wanting to go out and challenge two asian blokes walking down the steet shouting "you white ba...."
Such a generalisation.......
Although it does not often happen, certainly less than white people hurling abuse at black people.
Do you just think that or can you back it up? Just wondering how you came to that conclusion.
I thought the program was pretty good. Although its frightening how stupid people becoming police officers are that they didn't realise something was abit iffy about one guy continualy asking you questions about racism.
Its also quite funny how the police statement today jumps straight to the conclusion that these are a very very small minority of people. 7 or 8 out of the 25 in his class it looked like to me, not such a small minority. The sad truth is, many people who seek positions of power are the exact people who shouldn't have it.
Some of the officers who were featured seemed to find it difficult to form sentences without using the f word which ought to be a clue as to their character.
i also found that to be the case better vetting procedures might help but how do we try and keep these type of idiots out of the police force ?
Perhaps the police could run their own undercover operations at training camps.
aliferste
22-10-2003, 15:07
Do you just think that or can you back it up? Just wondering how you came to that conclusion.
Well, considering that the vast majority of racially motivated attacks are against black people by white people, then I would consider it an oddity for someone who is black to start shouting out about white people.
Therefore I can say that it certalinly happens less!!
i also found that to be the case better vetting procedures might help but how do we try and keep these type of idiots out of the police force ?I think that the answer is to recrut more ethnic minorities. It would also help if any racism was stamped on quickly when it rears it's ugly head.
I think that the answer is to recrut more ethnic minorities. It would also help if any racism was stamped on quickly when it rears it's ugly head.
Thats exactly what NOT to do though. It only makes things worse. Because in order to recruit more ethnic minorities than white officers you have to fast track the ethnic minorities for no other reason than their skin colour. Thats what makes things worse....
Last night in that program many of the course disliked the asian trainee because he had been fastracked. Its the reason why so many folk in britain hate assylum seekers. Not because of their skin colour but because of the impression they get things for free that the British don't. But thats what allows racism to grow, the fact that these racists can carry the support of some people who feel the injustice.
The answer is to recruit everyone equally. A black or asian recruit gets as much of a chance of a white recruit. All are treated the same, all are judged equally on their ability to do the job, not on quota's that need to be filled. If everyone is treated the same and seen to the treated the same you'll remove alot of the bad feeling (which helps racism along) that ethnic minorities don't deserve to be there.
This stupid positive discrimination is as bad as negative discimination.
i also found that to be the case better vetting procedures might help but how do we try and keep these type of idiots out of the police force ?
Well Kronas, it does look as if the Metropolitan Police no longer insist on 5 O' levels in fact what they want is and I quote:
Important: are you eligible to join?
If you are interested in becoming a police officer, it is essential that you check your eligibility before you complete and submit an enquiry form. This may save time and disappointment later. To join the Metropolitan Police:
"be aged at least 18 years
be a British citizen or a member of the EC/European Economic Area, or
be a Commonwealth citizen or foreign national who is resident in the UK free of restrictions
have a proven ability to learn
be physically fit (strength, agility and stamina)
be of good health both physically and mentally
have good eyesight
be of good character
abide by the law (certain minor previous offences and convictions may be overlooked)
not be under pressure from undischarged debts or liabilities
not have conflicting business interests
not have tattoos that could cause offence."
http://www.metcareers.co.uk/default.asp?action=article&ID=13
So, maybe this is the problem, pressure for recruitment has meant standards have been lowered. In the old days 5 O' levels/GCSEs or even better 2 A' Levels or a degree led to fast track schemes. So educational qualifications appear not to be important anymore and they should be; I would have thought some knowledge of languages: French or whatever would have been useful.
There is a temporary freeze right now as they have 4,000 waiting to go through training, perhaps they will in the light of events have to re-interview some of these aspirants to PC status!
I also noted that one of the alleged racist officers claimed he was in the Met Police and in an aside suggested racism is rife in the London Met. Police. I hope not, I like to think that most officers are sensible and decent policemen.
:wavey:
I would consider it an oddity for someone who is black to start shouting out about white people
With the greatest of respect that is one of the most naive comments I've ever seen on this site.
I think that the answer is to recrut more ethnic minorities. It would also help if any racism was stamped on quickly when it rears it's ugly head.
i disagree with you on that if you watched the program the only asian person in the class was forced out yes maybe because he was the only asian person there but you have eradicate the racists out of the force first i think it would cause more disruption if you add more asian people as he may have been fast tracked in to the training which will give black people more grief
Thats exactly what NOT to do though. It only makes things worse. Because in order to recruit more ethnic minorities than white officers you have to fast track the ethnic minorities for no other reason than their skin colour. Thats what makes things worse....
Last night in that program many of the course disliked the asian trainee because he had been fastracked. Its the reason why so many folk in britain hate assylum seekers. Not because of their skin colour but because of the impression they get things for free that the British don't. But thats what allows racism to grow, the fact that these racists can carry the support of some people who feel the injustice.
The answer is to recruit everyone equally. A black or asian recruit gets as much of a chance of a white recruit. All are treated the same, all are judged equally on their ability to do the job, not on quota's that need to be filled. If everyone is treated the same and seen to the treated the same you'll remove alot of the bad feeling (which helps racism along) that ethnic minorities don't deserve to be there.
This stupid positive discrimination is as bad as negative discimination.Woah there Nor! I never mentioned fast tracking anyone. As you say, recruiting and advancement should be done eqaully, on merit.
i disagree with you on that if you watched the program the only asian person in the class was forced out yes maybe because he was the only asian person there but you have eradicate the racists out of the force first i think it would cause more disruption if you add more asian people as he may have been fast tracked in to the training which will give black people more grief Thats exactly it. Because he was the only asian there he was easy to force out. If there had been more, and a few black and yellow faces as well then that would probably not have happened.
I don't think you can eradicate racists from any walk of life, you just have to minimize the mischief that they can do. If you eradicate all racists from the forces you will have an understaffed police force and a massive recruiting problem. Integration and education has to be the way to go.
Yeah mate but in order to recruit more ethnic minorities you have to fast track the ethnic minorities or reject equally capable white officers in favour of ethnic minorities.
Yeah mate but in order to recruit more ethnic minorities you have to fast track the ethnic minorities or reject equally capable white officers in favour of ethnic minorities. If the white officers are equally capable then they will also get into the force, why would you have to regect them?
You don't have to fast track the minority police officers, just give them an equal chance and make sure that you keep attracting minorities into a career in the police. (like you said)
But the massive majority of people who apply are white. In order to recruit more ethnic minorities they would have to have lower standards for asians than for white officers. Otherwise you'd find the same percentages of white/asians making it through to become a PC that you saw in the applications.
So if you didn't make it easier for people from ethnic minorities to become PC's you'd never really achieve what you want, which is to recruit more police officers from ethnic minorities. Of course you can try to encourage more ethnic minorities to apply to be PC's, you can go out into those communities and teach people about the police and get more applications that way. Thats the only way to do it. Its very simple in my opinion... if you get all your PC applications in and 95% are from white folk and 5% are from ethnic minorities then on average thats the same percentage that will make it to become police officers. You need to increase the people applying, rather than lower the standards to get more ethnic minorties becoming PC's proportional to the percentages that applied.
The problem as I see it is the police are going out of their way to try to appear that they aren't institutionally racist by positive discrimination. This not only serves to damage the opinion of ethnic minority officers by their colleagues but it also hurts the reputation of good ethnic minority officers who'll forever get the crappy abuse of you only got in here cos you're asian.
aliferste
22-10-2003, 20:27
With the greatest of respect that is one of the most naive comments I've ever seen on this site.
Ahhhh to be called naive :) there is no disrespect in that!!
aliferste
22-10-2003, 20:30
Last night in that program many of the course disliked the asian trainee because he had been fastracked. Its the reason why so many folk in britain hate assylum seekers. Not because of their skin colour but because of the impression they get things for free that the British don't. But thats what allows racism to grow, the fact that these racists can carry the support of some people who feel the injustice.
The answer is to recruit everyone equally. A black or asian recruit gets as much of a chance of a white recruit. All are treated the same, all are judged equally on their ability to do the job, not on quota's that need to be filled. If everyone is treated the same and seen to the treated the same you'll remove alot of the bad feeling (which helps racism along) that ethnic minorities don't deserve to be there.
This stupid positive discrimination is as bad as negative discimination.
I agree, But what they should do is specifically target people in ethnic minorites to come and work in the police.....not just fast track them through.....
Hmmmmm positive discrimination!!! It sounds dodgy but i remember reading a story about it once that put it in perspective!! Ill need to look it out!!
I had a policeman in tonight for treatment (the same policeman that I mentioned in the other thread) He's in the Met and said that in 8 years of service he hasn't seen a single instance of racial discrimination. In fact, just the opposite. They are hyper-aware of a persons race/colour He was completely genuine in his manner and I believe him. He said that he has heard the occasional racist joke but nothing more. Apparently in the last 5 years race awareness has reached a new peak in the Met, it would appear that the Met's officers are being made to bend over backwards to accomodate ethnic minorities sensibilities when they have any dealings with them.
He said that they mustn't treat minorities 'equally', they have to treat them 'fairly'. Because to treat them equally would mean that they are ignoring the fact that they come from a different culture and as such, possibly may need to be treated differently.
i did'nt see the program but i have worked close to the police for a few years and i think they do a good jod refraining themselves. how many people here can take people calling you everything under the sun and saying things about your wife and kids and what they will do to them, getting spat in the face everyday and when two thirds of these criminals are not white. if your getting so much hatred for these people each day it must be hard not to hate them back.Good point. I wouldn't want the job!:(
....to think I was once hell bent on joining the Met!
i have a lot of respect for the met. they saved me from a beating a few times while working at richmond, they were there within a couple of minutes everytime we had to phone them.What the hell were you doing for a living then?
i did'nt see the program but i have worked close to the police for a few years and i think they do a good jod refraining themselves. how many people here can take people calling you everything under the sun and saying things about your wife and kids and what they will do to them, getting spat in the face everyday and when two thirds of these criminals are not white. if your getting so much hatred from these people each day it must be hard not to hate them back.
I am sure that probably there are many decent and diligent police officers in the Met. Police. We can understand that police officers often face abuse: sometimes I am sure patience can have its limits. The problem is that there are an unknown number of police officers who damage the reputation of the force: it is important that the senior officers ensure that those who may be making decisions based on racist attutudes and if proven to do so are dealt with and should be seen to be doing so.
:cool:
In a society like ours, where whites are the largest ethnic group it is inevitable that people from smaller ethnic groups will feel vulnerable.
Each ethnic group is inherently racist in that, forced to choose, we tend to prefer people of our own kind.
Where racism exists it is the capacity to use power to exercise racial prejudice.
If one ethnic group dominates the control systems of society i.e. the government, the justice system, the education system etc then they are in a position to do this.
Having significant numbers of people from other ethnic groups in positions of power permits the development of a system of checks and balances so that people from all ethnic groups can secure fair treatment.
We do need more people from ethnic minorities in positions of power. We need to ensure that black candidates are treated more fairly. It would be interesting to see how many chief constables are not white. It would also be interesting to see the proportion of officers who are not white in all the constabularies in the UK. The same could also be done for members of the government, judges, headteachers, hospital consultants and other senior public service posts. I think the results would make interesting reading.
It might also make us somewhat more sympathetic when dealing with black people, who, after all, only make up a small proportion of our population.
Just for the record, I'm white.
In a society like ours, where whites are the largest ethnic group it is inevitable that people from smaller ethnic groups will feel vulnerable.
Each ethnic group is inherently racist in that, forced to choose, we tend to prefer people of our own kind.
Where racism exists it is the capacity to use power to exercise racial prejudice.
We do need more people from ethnic minorities in positions of power. We need to ensure that black candidates are treated more fairly. It would be interesting to see how many chief constables are not white...snip... Just for the record, I'm white.
See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3148618.stm
The UKs first Black Chief Constable and good luck to him.
I don't know the answers. I feel a little hesitant about affirmative action programmes and just discriminating against indigenous people is not going to be helpful, merit should always come first. My local council uses such a policy but I can't say I'm impressed, looks good but that's all.
I am sort of pinky, creamy but fail to see any white! My wife is southern African supposedly Black but really sort of Brown, all this racial classification is so confusing!
:wavey:
See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3148618.stm
The UKs first Black Chief Constable and good luck to him.
I don't know the answers. I feel a little hesitant about affirmative action programmes and just discriminating against indigenous people is not going to be helpful, merit should always come first. My local council uses such a policy but I can't say I'm impressed, looks good but that's all.
I am sort of pinky, creamy but fail to see any white! My wife is southern African supposedly Black but really sort of Brown, all this racial classification is so confusing!
:wavey:
I wasn't suggesting affirmative action programmes and agree that merit should come first as nobody wants to be patronised by feeling that something was made easier because of their colour. It also devalues their achievement.
I was merely recognising that talented people from ethnic minorities need to come forward and join the police and other public organisations to provide role models for others to follow.
I agree with you too that racial classifications are extremely difficult particularly as race, nationality and religion often overlap to confound the stereotypes.
In general, I think there needs to be greater tolerance, acceptance and respect between racial groups. Maybe then we will get a racially harmonious society where each individual can perform to the best of their potential and make a positive contribution to society irrespective of their ethnic background.
In general, I think there needs to be greater tolerance, acceptance and respect between racial groups. Maybe then we will get a racially harmonious society where each individual can perform to the best of their potential and make a positive contribution to society irrespective of their ethnic background.
i agree but in order to do that you have to do something with people who have racist bigoted views who just refuse to cooporate and 'turn the screw' on ethnic minoritys
i agree but in order to do that you have to do something with people who have racist bigoted views who just refuse to cooporate and 'turn the screw' on ethnic minoritys
You do it by ensuring that every organisation in the UK has a policy making racism unacceptable.
You do it by having every school and public service utilise a range of anti-racist strategies so that over time each generation will become less racist.
You educate people in schools, magazines, newspapers, on TV etc about the cultural differences of other ethnic groups.
You use existing positive role models to show how useful and successful people from ethnic minorities can be e.g. as doctors and nurses in the health service, as MPs, as judges, in entertainment, in sport etc. and publicise the work they do.
You use planning and housing policies to create environments where the presence of black people will not generate hostility e.g. not place them in areas where there are already lots of black people or in areas where there is high unemployment. In essence you make it easy for white people (& others) to perceive them as non-threatening and therefore easier to accept.
Public debate and discussion on programmes like "Question Time" give people the chance to examine their views in relation to the issues. People need to talk about the issues at their work places. Often new viewpoints spring up and people re-evaluate their views.
We need to remember that people are at different stages in their personal development or journey on the continuum from being overtly racist at one end to being overtly anti-racist at the other. People need time, education and in some cases peer pressure to make the adjustment and for some the adjustment will be harder than for others.
security at the train station.Sad how just doing your job entails the possibility of extreme violence.
See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3148618.stm
The UKs first Black Chief Constable and good luck to him.
Excellent! Like you say, good luck to him.:)
yeah its was pretty bad but Reading train station was worse for fighting. the thing is when everyone is kicked out of the puds at the end of the night they go to the station to go home, so you get 100 people pi55ed out of there head all in one place. then there was the football hardcore who drinks at the pud on the station and getting all the away supports coming and going on the trains, lots of fun.Aint it great, living in the UK?
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