View Full Version : Call centres
I write this thread not to complain about call centres but to defend them - particularly outbound call centre agents. I reckon everyone should give us a break.
I work as an outbound call agent and that usually involves calling people who aren't expecting my call, ie they don't know me. However I don't work in sales.
I have just had quite an annoying shift, where I have called so many rude people. Now I can appreciate very well that if someone calls you at home in the evening, it can be irritating. However, need people be SO rude? Tonight I was asking a few questions, which took about one minute. Yet people hung up on me before I got chance to finish my sentence, swore at me, and generally made out like I was the biggest pain in the @** they had ever had the misfortune to encounter.
I would be ever so grateful if people could just say 'no thanks, bye.' Instead of just cutting me off. One guy pretended to be polite and asked me to wait whilst he went to turn off the tap. Then came back and asked me to wait while he answered the door. Then eventually after a while came back and just hung up on me. I called back, and his wife told me they 'really weren't interested.' Fair enough, but say it politely and then hang up, don't leave me waiting. Obviously this was his amusing way of dealing with nuisance callers.
But please people, spare a thought for the caller, who is just doing this to raise some cash, and is about as interested in the survey as you are. It's not their fault, if they were to refuse the job on the grounds that calling people at home is intrusive, then there would be a lot more unemployed people out there.
And please please stop hanging up before they even finish their sentence. Sometimes you can't even hear someone hanging up on you, so you say your whole speech before realising no one is listening to you.
I don't know if any of you do this, but it is just a general plea to all humanity.
Can I just ask, if you are not in sales, what are you ringing them for?
Oh yeah and remember inbound as well, some people seem to just ring for a fight and want to shout the odds from the minute you answer the call.
Having done outbound as well I know exactly what you mean... :erm:
Can I just ask, if you are not in sales, what are you ringing them for?
But please people, spare a thought for the caller, who is just doing this to raise some cash, and is about as interested in the survey as you are
Surveys apparently.
@ Clarie, I usually tell the caller I'm not interested (using those words) at the first opportunity, and usually they are very polite about that, and don't insist.
I once had one (from sales) who got angry at me for not letting her finish her story. I did give her a bit of a telling off.
Macca371
17-09-2005, 00:28
I work as an 'inbound caller' for a finance company, but also do some outbound work aswell if we are not receiving many calls. There are lots of VERY rude people out there. How hard is it to:
a) Bin the application instead of ringing the number on it and hurling abuse at the recipient caller
or
b) Say "No thanks."
Really not that hard?? :erm:
I worked for a double glazing sales place once, it only lasted six hours but was interesting, most people swear at you, some make excuses some moake you hold the line for hours.. whatever....
If you do outbound and its not b2b, then im afraid you will get all of the above and more.. Its a fact of life, we dont like being called, and now we are getting automated calls, the human calls will be even more worse treated..
My advice.. get another job that does not include cold calling!
I can't stand firms ringing that are either conducting surveys or cold calling! I'm never rude i just say i'm not interested but sometimes they just won't give in and i have no alternative but to hang up.
MovedGoalPosts
17-09-2005, 01:32
It's quite simple. I have an ex directory number. I subscribe to the Telephone Preference Service. Therefore if anyone makes the mistake of calling me, it is unwarranted, intrusive and they will get short shrift. Sorry, I've done everything reasonable to say I don't want to be disturbed. If someone does disturb me, surely I am entitled to express my annoyance (I will be assertivbe and abrubt, but won't curse), with the call being very swiftly ended, whether the caller is listening to what I say or not.
Its like Jehovas Witness constantly calling it becomes tiresome! I hate being stopped when i go shopping by someone flogging Window's and Door's! People ringing is the same thing!
MovedGoalPosts
17-09-2005, 01:39
At work the cold callers are a pain in the backside, but harder to stop (can we give you IT support, will you advertsie on our website, blah blah blah). Again the calls are difficult to prevent, and very much a nuisance, interrupting my working day. I know companies are just trying to promote themselves, but it is little more than Spam, by another more traditional method. If I want something, I'll look around for it, and make the effort to call. What makes anyone think that I'm going to suddenly, on reciept of a cold call, think yep OK I'll buy this thing from you, just beacuse you were the one to phone. Even if I want the thing, I'm going to check out whether the caller or someone else can do it best for the price.
I know those doing the job in the call centres are only trying to earn a living. If I'm at home, I'm on my leisure and rest and don't need the intrustion. If I'm at work, I'm trying to earn a living too, and have better more productive things to do. Sorry but although I wont be outright rude, anyone making cold calls will no doubt have to have a thick skin.
If I want something, I'll look around for it, and make the effort to call. What makes anyone think that I'm going to suddenly, on reciept of a cold call, think yep OK I'll buy this thing from you, just beacuse you were the one to phone. Even if I want the thing, I'm going to check out whether the caller or someone else can do it best for the price.
This is exactly how i feel!! If i want new Windows i'll seek them out! Someone knocking at the door when i'm relaxing isn't going to get the best reception! The sooner companies realise this the better, sadly i don't think they will!
timewarrior2001
17-09-2005, 01:58
I dont get these calls for a few reasons.
1/ Our number does not accept calls from withheld numbers
2/ We are listed on the telephone preference service
3/ we are ex directory
Now I agree survey calls are fine, I tend to complete them when i used to get the calls, however sales calls do irritate the hell out of me.
Its a fact of life that some people do not want to be bothered at home full stop, and the companies should respect that. Cold calling is a problem, however depending on where your company gets the numbers from and whether at some point the user has agreed a call is important.
What I really dont like is when you get a call regarding somehting you signed over 12 months ago.
As I stated above there are ways you can ensure you dont get these calls, there is no excuse to be rude, but the people on the other end of the other end of the phone need to realise that people do get wound up and it may have been the 6th "nuisance" call in a row for that person.
It is just a job and at the end of the day if you cant switch off from it then perhaps its not the right job for you.
I work in a call centre, do tech support for JC+ and I despise it.
I write this thread not to complain about call centres but to defend them - particularly outbound call centre agents. I reckon everyone should give us a break.
And I wish they would give *ME* a break.
I have signed up to the TPS because I DO NOT WANT these calls, yet I *still* get people phoning me up claiming that they're not trying to sell me something, they're just "doing a survey" or "I've won a prize".
I do not want to be interrupted in the middle of whatever I'm doing because of some company that thinks that they know better than I what I may or may not want.
They have *already* been rude to me by ignoring my wishes, so I have no qualms about being rude back to them.
To paraphrase a certain exprssion: If they don't like that sort of thing, they shouldn't be doing the job in the first place.
djstevie
17-09-2005, 02:18
When i used to work in a call centre about 8 months ago for quite a well known organisation, i remember ,when people were rude to the agents (i mean swearing and unpolite) the "agents" used to leave a note on the system saying that the people werent at home (even though they had spoken to them) which meant the person ended up getting called back again by a different "agent". Sometimes people would end up getting called between 2 and 10 times a day which was well out of order. Remember these people are only doing their job, all it takes is a "im not interested thanks" and thats usually enough for most. Being rude will normally result in you getting pestered even more.
I can say i have never argued with a person at a call centre, only the music i get when on hold :mad:
I understand that the people calling are just doing their jobs, taking orders from the main boss, and doing what they have to do.
However, when I am at home in the evening I like to come home, switch off from anything annoying and choose what I want to do for the evening.
When I'm juggling the cooking or about to sit down into my meal, I do not want to be called about double glazing in my area or wether I need a new mobile phone.
If I need such services, I will decide on that when I need them and call them up myself, in my own time.
The worst thing is when I get calls on weekends. I want a peaceful weekend. When I'm in my home I want to relax. If I use the phone it is to call friends or family. I do not want to be woken up at 9.30am on a saturday to be sold kitchens.
It is invading my privacy and that is why I do not like these type of calls.
i know there are some people who handle these calls very well and are polite and I am polite back. But some are just very intruding. one call I got the other day just launched into asking who I was without telling me who they were, and then asked me what type of accounts I have and phone bills, who I have as my supplier, etc. Its none of their damn business.
I totally sympathise with the poor people who have to do this job and I know its not easy. I normally tell them politely that I'm not interested. Its just when I get the same call 5 times in ten minutes that I start to get annoyed.
Chrysalis
17-09-2005, 04:44
clarie I bet half the people you phone have not gave you permission to ring them up, and its also probably in the evening when people want to relax, so you need to understand some people will get angry.
I always try to be polite but I usually dont cooperate with cold callers.
If i answer the phone and get a delay of a couple of seconds for a responce i hang up, the chances are that you are one of many that has been cold called for whatever reason.
They are only doing their jobs, I know it's a pain in the @rse, like the other posts have said join the TPS.
I have signed up to the TPS because I DO NOT WANT these calls, yet I *still* get people phoning me up claiming that they're not trying to sell me something, they're just "doing a survey" or "I've won a prize".
TPS only covers direct marketing calls - it was in fact the DMA the set up the TPS...
Surveys (market research) and the annoying "won a holiday" aren't classed as direct marketing so not covered by TPS - but a lot of the more scrupulous places do actually try to avoid calling TPS numbers out of courtesy even though they don't have to.
Really what is needed is a list to opt-out of all incoming calls without having requested them first, and then there'd probably be some random loophole excuse they'd find to still be allowed to call.
The surveys are usually OK but the "won a prize" are silly, in no way can you win something you never entered, it doesn't make sense.
I have signed up to the TPS because I DO NOT WANT these calls, yet I *still* get people phoning me up claiming that they're not trying to sell me something, they're just "doing a survey" or "I've won a prize".
TPS only covers direct marketing calls - it was in fact the DMA the set up the TPS...
Surveys (market research) and the annoying "won a holiday" aren't classed as direct marketing so not covered by TPS
Except, of course, they are nothing more than an attempt to weasel their way past the TPS :grind:
Really what is needed is a list to opt-out of all incoming calls without having requested them first, and then there'd probably be some random loophole excuse they'd find to still be allowed to call.
The trouble is I can't do that, especially on the business line, nor can I block "anonymous" (ie number witheld) calls because I may be stopping someone from buying from me.
That's why I often, especially after 6pm, monitor calls to the business line by listening to the answerphone, but sometimes people just don't want to leave a message, so I don't know if it was a valid call or not.
The surveys are usually OK
Not the ones I've had. "If you could replace any windows with double glazing, how many would you replace?" The answer is "I've already got double glazing, so why are you wasting my time?"
I've always said that to be in any kind of cold-calling call centre, you need nerves of steel as you are (by the nature of what you do) disturbing people and some people just don't want to be disturbed.
I have sympathy for the person making the call as we all have jobs to do but I would find it hard to take their side if they complain that people have little or no time for them.
Some interesting replies, and I will now respond to some of them.
Please firstly bear in mind that when I started this thread last night I had just finished a shift in which I had enountered some particularly rude people. Today's shift was decidedly better - perhaps people are less adverse to being called on a Saturday than on a Friday evening.
My advice.. get another job that does not include cold calling!
To paraphrase a certain exprssion: If they don't like that sort of thing, they shouldn't be doing the job in the first place.
It's really not that simple. I have been trying for a long time to get other work elsewhere, but no other sort of place offers such flexibility with hours with comparable rates of pay. There are certain jobs I cannot do at the moment due to health issues.
Besides this doesn't address the issue of the rudeness of some people.
Therefore if anyone makes the mistake of calling me, it is unwarranted, intrusive and they will get short shrift.
They have *already* been rude to me by ignoring my wishes, so I have no qualms about being rude back to them.
The way we get numbers is by random telephone number generation, so we don't know whether the numbers we are calling are are ex-directory or not. I can appreciate that it is annoying that having gone ex-dir, you can still be contacted by people you don't know. However we are not flouting any rules at all, we don't get numbers from a phone directory. I therefore don't consider it to be particularly rude of us I'm afraid, certainly not the individual who has been given a list of numbers to call that has been produced by someone else.
If I want something, I'll look around for it, and make the effort to call. What makes anyone think that I'm going to suddenly, on reciept of a cold call, think yep OK I'll buy this thing from you, just beacuse you were the one to phone.
Maybe you wouldn't buy that way but a lot of people would, which is why it is a continuing method of selling.
Besides I am not talking about sales calls. My line of work involves surveys. I am not asking for anyone's money, just a few moments of their time. And if it's not convenient, and you don't want us to call again, fine! No need to be rude about it.
Consider it this way, when you're stopped by a woman in the street with a clipboard who asks if you have time to participate in some market research, do you tell her to %*#@ off? Or are you more polite because that is considered rude? I think people are a lot more likely to be polite to a person in the street, and therefore think that the telephone provides a mask behind which you can speak to people however you like, and I think that is just as rude.
Consider it this way, when you're stopped by a woman in the street with a clipboard who asks if you have time to participate in some market research, do you tell her to %*#@ off? Or are you more polite because that is considered rude? I think people are a lot more likely to be polite to a person in the street, and therefore think that the telephone provides a mask behind which you can speak to people however you like, and I think that is just as rude.
I just walk on past them, usually if they get someone to stop they are not keen to let them go! Esp the ones who want your bank details for charities.
If someone cold calls me I tell them no thanks but 9 time out of 10 they just keep reading their script and I hang up on them.
Chimaera
17-09-2005, 17:22
The way we get numbers is by random telephone number generation, so we don't know whether the numbers we are calling are are ex-directory or not. I can appreciate that it is annoying that having gone ex-dir, you can still be contacted by people you don't know. However we are not flouting any rules at all, we don't get numbers from a phone directory. I therefore don't consider it to be particularly rude of us I'm afraid, certainly not the individual who has been given a list of numbers to call that has been produced by someone else.
So what about if you are signed up to the TPS and you still get calls - is that permitted?
IIRC the company can still use your number once if they already have it in their 'possession' when you register for it as they wouldn't have any way of being told about the TPS being updated. But if they do call you and you tell them the situation, they're obliged to conform.
The way we get numbers is by random telephone number generation, so we don't know whether the numbers we are calling are are ex-directory or not. I can appreciate that it is annoying that having gone ex-dir, you can still be contacted by people you don't know. However we are not flouting any rules at all, we don't get numbers from a phone directory. I therefore don't consider it to be particularly rude of us I'm afraid, certainly not the individual who has been given a list of numbers to call that has been produced by someone else.
Besides I am not talking about sales calls. My line of work involves surveys. I am not asking for anyone's money, just a few moments of their time. And if it's not convenient, and you don't want us to call again, fine! No need to be rude about it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/consumer/direct_marketing.shtml
If automatic calling equipment is being used to initiate calls other than for direct marketing purposes, then use of such equipment may breach of the Use of Automatic Calling Equipment condition contained in the Self Provided Telecommunications Systems Licence (SPL) and the Telecommunications Service Licence (TSL), which are the main class licences under which the majority of telecommunications systems are run.
But just in case your company isn't breaking those rules I can only say that if you call someone who is listed on the TPS list and they inform you that they are on it you have the option to end the call and make sure it is not dialled again or your company may face a fine. Once a company is made aware that a number is on the TPS list they are not allowed to call that number again.
So what about if you are signed up to the TPS and you still get calls - is that permitted?
As far as I know the TPS does not apply to market research calls. We are not trying to sell anything.
As far as I know the TPS does not apply to market research calls. We are not trying to sell anything.
Sorry clarie but I don't want to do surveys on the phone either.I find the whole process intrusive.However I'm always polite with my refusal. :)
However I'm always polite with my refusal. :)
Let me guess - your response is along the lines of "Please will you **** off" :D
Sorry clarie but I don't want to do surveys on the phone either.I find the whole process intrusive.However I'm always polite with my refusal. :)
Well there we are that's my point. If you don't want to do the survey you have every right to refuse. I am simply saying I wish people could be polite with their refusals like you are.
dilli-theclaw
17-09-2005, 17:50
I always TRY to be polite. If the person on the other end doesn't take no for an answer THEN I'll tell them what I think of them and their company.
It must be said that it's only the people that call from 'out of area' that are like this.
I'm assuming 'out of area' is from another country.
Consider it this way, when you're stopped by a woman in the street with a clipboard who asks if you have time to participate in some market research, do you tell her to %*#@ off? Or are you more polite because that is considered rude? I think people are a lot more likely to be polite to a person in the street, and therefore think that the telephone provides a mask behind which you can speak to people however you like, and I think that is just as rude.
Ah but the woman in the street can be easily avoided! Someone on the other end of the phone isn't! Unfortunately your in a job that deals with the public and sometimes they can be rude, my advise get used to it!! lol
Ah but the woman in the street can be easily avoided! Someone on the other end of the phone isn't! Unfortunately your in a job that deals with the public and sometimes they can be rude, my advise get used to it!! lol
To be fair, these people don't just stand in one place! Usually if you take evasive action, they simply come after you!
To be fair, these people don't just stand in one place! Usually if you take evasive action, they simply come after you!
Ah when that happens just carry on walking!!
* Martin's top tip* Never make any eye contact!!
Ah but the woman in the street can be easily avoided! Someone on the other end of the phone isn't! Unfortunately your in a job that deals with the public and sometimes they can be rude, my advise get used to it!! lol
Fair enough but I think you miss my main point. One those occasions when the woman can't be avoided are you as rude to her as you might be to someone on the phone?
Having worked in a call centre for a long time I am already used to the rudeness but that doesn't mean it's ok and last night I just thought 'is it necessary for people to be so rude?'
Finally I would also like to say that if people have a problem with being called at home then perhaps they should ask for the contact details of the management and make a proper complaint rather than venting at the poor person who is only doing this to pay the bills. You will get your point across far better than you will be cursing down at the phone at the caller, who will just think you are a rude *#@$ and not care what you think. You can make a complaint far more effectively by being polite and getting people to sympathise with your frustration.
MovedGoalPosts
17-09-2005, 19:31
Finally I would also like to say that if people have a problem with being called at home then perhaps they should ask for the contact details of the management and make a proper complaint rather than venting at the poor person who is only doing this to pay the bills. You will get your point across far better than you will be cursing down at the phone at the caller, who will just think you are a rude *#@$ and not care what you think. You can make a complaint far more effectively by being polite and getting people to sympathise with your frustration.
Sorry, but do you really someone who has had the unwarranted nuisance intrusion to spend more time on complaining about being disturbed? It's not going to happen.
Sorry, but do you really someone who has had the unwarranted nuisance intrusion to spend more time on complaining about being disturbed? It's not going to happen.
Firstly I don't consider market research to be unwarranted. Secondly if people don't make these complaints in the manner I suggested in my last post, then I am afraid they will not get their point across in a way that will actually result in anything positive happening.
It is neither good manners nor effective to vent at the caller, and just results in bad feeling on both sides.
Sorry, but do you really someone who has had the unwarranted nuisance intrusion to spend more time on complaining about being disturbed? It's not going to happen.
Firstly I don't consider market research to be unwarranted. Secondly if people don't make these complaints in the manner I suggested in my last post, then I am afraid they will not get their point across in a way that will actually result in anything positive happening.
It is neither good manners nor effective to vent at the caller, and just results in bad feeling on both sides.
I'm with you.
People doing this kind of thing DO NOT KNOW who they are calling, and normally, the lists are cross-checked with TPS even though they don't have to be.
Being rude just gets peoples' backs up and achieves nothing, saying "sorry, I don't want to" is much better and achieves the same result. Although if the caller is being more persistant things should rightly change.
If they're that annoyed maybe they should write to the company as you said...
MovedGoalPosts
17-09-2005, 19:46
True market research, not sales hiding behind a claim of a survey, may have a use, to the researcher, or company that is comissioning it. I haven't "opted in" to it though, and thus for me it is unwarranted and an intrusion on my time.
I don't vent at the caller I just tell them goodbye and hang up. Sorry if that is considered rude by the caller, but I didn't want the call in the first place. And yes anyone attempting to stop me in the street will get a similar blanking not interested response too.
Let me guess - your response is along the lines of "Please will you **** off" :D
:bsmack: only to you russ,only to you. :PP:
I'm with you.
People doing this kind of thing DO NOT KNOW who they are calling, and normally, the lists are cross-checked with TPS even though they don't have to be.
What list? Claire has stated that the company she works for uses automatic number generation dialers. Not lists, if she were running a script of numbers then yes the lists are often checked against the TPS lists first BUT market research companies know that TPS does not cover them so a lot of them don't screen their lists.
Being rude just gets peoples' backs up and achieves nothing, saying "sorry, I don't want to" is much better and achieves the same result. Although if the caller is being more persistant things should rightly change.
If they're that annoyed maybe they should write to the company as you said...
That's the problem, people go on the TPS list to get rid of unwanted/ unsolicited calls. Market research calls are unsolicited so people get fed up with receiving them, especially when they are on the TPS lists etc, ex-directory, using ACR and are careful who they give their number to. If people go to these lengths to shield themselves from unsolicited contact and they are still called becasue a company is using a number generating dialler which gets past everything then they will get annoyed/ upset/ angry and some will react against the only person availabe at that time.... the caller.
True market research, not sales hiding behind a claim of a survey, may have a use, to the researcher, or company that is comissioning it. I haven't "opted in" to it though, and thus for me it is unwarranted and an intrusion on my time.
I don't vent at the caller I just tell them goodbye and hang up. Sorry if that is considered rude by the caller, but I didn't want the call in the first place. And yes anyone attempting to stop me in the street will get a similar blanking not interested response too.
Don't forget it may have a use to the public too, if it actually incites a company to improve a product or service- which let's not forget, is one of the main reasons why it's commissioned to begin with!
You say you didn't "opt in"- so what? Most of the numbers can be provided by the clients themselves, or taken from other sources. As I said some companies cross-check with TPS even if they don't need to! You may well even have "opted in" by supplying your details to a third party and given your consent without realising by signing without checking small print?
As myself and clarie said, most of the calls the agents don't know who they are calling or anything about them, don't know if they've opted in, etc etc. It's unwarranted to be rude to them as they're doing their job, if you don't want to take part then be polite about it. Would you like to be cursed and treated rudely for doing your job? Because it's the same as mouthing to the bus driver, shop assistant, or something...
If market research companies had to rely solely on those who 'opt in' then they would never get sufficient responses to their surveys and therefore their clients would not have sufficient public response on which to base the marketing and development of their products, or on the promotion of whatever it is they deal with. Market research is very important - it allows companies and organisations to get some customer feedback on their products/services, and invaluable opinions on the way certain things are run and dealt with.
Now by 'opting in' I mean, and I assume you mean, somehow signing up to some deal whereby you agree to receive such calls. I agree in an ideal world, that if we could just work with people who had already agreed to respond, then everything would be peachy. However, people wouldn't do it. Therefore, we call people and ask them if they could possibly spare a few minutes to participate in the survey. At this point they have every right, and opportunity, to 'opt out'. It is at this point that I believe people should be polite. Be firm by all means, but don't shout down the phone, ask us to hold on and then just leave us waiting, or just bang the phone down. How long does it take to say 'No thanks.' Believe me, I hardly ever get drawn into conversations with cold callers, but I always make a point of being polite about it, now that I know how it feels to be on the receiving end of a mouthful of abuse.
What I do is 'true' market research, there is absolutely no selling that goes on in my company.
Would you like to be cursed and treated rudely for doing your job? Because it's the same as mouthing to the bus driver, shop assistant, or something...
*IMHO*
No it's not, people choose to use the service of a shop assistant, bus driver etc, therefor swearing at them is worse as you have chosen to use their service. Being rude to someone who you didn't ask to call you may be un-necessary but it's not the same as swearing at someone who you opted to interact with in the first place.
edit:
Forgot to put IMHO ;)
I'm with you.
People doing this kind of thing DO NOT KNOW who they are calling, and normally, the lists are cross-checked with TPS even though they don't have to be.
What list? Claire has stated that the company she works for uses automatic number generation dialers. Not lists, if she were running a script of numbers then yes the lists are often checked against the TPS lists first BUT market research companies know that TPS does not cover them so a lot of them don't screen their lists.
Being rude just gets peoples' backs up and achieves nothing, saying "sorry, I don't want to" is much better and achieves the same result. Although if the caller is being more persistant things should rightly change.
If they're that annoyed maybe they should write to the company as you said...
That's the problem, people go on the TPS list to get rid of unwanted/ unsolicited calls. Market research calls are unsolicited so people get fed up with receiving them, especially when they are on the TPS lists etc, ex-directory, using ACR and are careful who they give their number to. If people go to these lengths to shield themselves from unsolicited contact and they are still called becasue a company is using a number generating dialler which gets past everything then they will get annoyed/ upset/ angry and some will react against the only person availabe at that time.... the caller.
Who says they're automatic number generated dialers? What's probably happened is what we did- there's a client supplied list on a server, or some other compiled list on an opt-in basis, or something, that is brought up on a screen by the call centre staff, so they would appear to be random from that PoV... so it appears random but if it was dialled numbers at random there would be a low success rate and an unmanageably high amount of wasted time. The numbers have to be compiled from somewhere and I would imagine out of courtesy they'd be checked. I think you're assuming something.
Few things.
- If it's not a sales call IT IS NOT COVERED BY TPS AND IT IS PERFECTLY LEGITIMATE TO CALL.
- Ex directory means naff all other than the number's not in the phone book. Which begs the question- if it is on a list, and a TPS number, and the person is still getting the calls then the number must have come from somewhere. Most numbers in the UK are 5 STD + 7 digits, there's some restriction making it really 4+6 or even 3+6 but even then (assuming 3+6) there's a total of 10^9 combinations ie 1,000,000,000 possible numbers and there's only 60 million people in the UK. If they were random then that would mean an awful lot of failed call attempts.
- Most call centres withold the number because it frees the line up from incoming calls and prevents angry people from calling back for a fight. So ACR would reject the numbers- and as I know, this does happen.
- Only the calls from abroad will get past TPS/ACR as they will come up as Unknown Number not Private/Witheld. And they'd be legit anyway as they're not governed by UK law.
What list? Claire has stated that the company she works for uses automatic number generation dialers. Not lists, if she were running a script of numbers then yes the lists are often checked against the TPS lists first BUT market research companies know that TPS does not cover them so a lot of them don't screen their lists.
Just to clarify, we do use lists. The numbers are generated randomly but then they are put into a list, that we use to manually dial people.
Do you know for sure that a lot of market research companies don't screen the lists?
No it's not, people choose to use the service of a shop assistant, bus driver etc, therefor swearing at them is worse as you have chosen to use their service. Being rude to someone who you didn't ask to call you may be un-necessary but it's not the same as swearing at someone who you opted to interact with in the first place.
To be honest as far as I am concerned the difference is irrelevant, callers are human beings the same as bus drivers, shop assistants, and anyone else in the world. There is still no excuse for rudeness. It doesn't help the situation at all.
Just to clarify, we do use lists. The numbers are generated randomly but then they are put into a list, that we use to manually dial people.
Then you are not using "randomly created numbers" you are using directory numbers supplied to you which are then used to create dialing lists. A lot different to number generation which you stated a while back as NFFC stated you would have too many dropped calls if it were random numbers that a computer somewhere churned out.
Do you know for sure that a lot of market research companies don't screen the lists?
Having been called by a few even though we are on the tps list I can say that there are a number out there that don't screen their lists. Why screen a list and cause yourself more work when you don't have to? All you then do is train your staff how to react when they are told that the number they have dialled is on the TPS list to stop unsolicited calls.
No it's not, people choose to use the service of a shop assistant, bus driver etc, therefor swearing at them is worse as you have chosen to use their service. Being rude to someone who you didn't ask to call you may be un-necessary but it's not the same as swearing at someone who you opted to interact with in the first place.
To be honest as far as I am concerned the difference is irrelevant, callers are human beings the same as bus drivers, shop assistants, and anyone else in the world. There is still no excuse for rudeness. It doesn't help the situation at all.[/QUOTE]
Difference may be irrelevant to you but to some it is very relevant. Personally I don't swear at people on the phone or in the street but there are people out there that do.
At no point have I actually said it's right to swear at callers ;)
Having been called by a few even though we are on the tps list I can say that there are a number out there that don't screen their lists.
How many more times do I have to say it?
TPS does not cover "proper" market research as it is not a sales or marketing call and so not under the auspices of the DMA, whose money subsidises the setup, maintenance and implementation of the TPS.
I know for a fact the place I worked for screened the lists they made, if they were a client-supplied list the list was used "as supplied" so the people on the list had consented in some way to their inclusion.
It's common courtesy NOT to call a TPS number, but for MR there's nothing illegal about it. Impoliteness isn't a crime- but don't blame the person who has called, they probably had an instruction on a screen "please dial: <number>" and are merely following orders- the correct response is to find out the name of the research company, and get the address for head office, which if it's all kosher should be easy to find, and write- which again, if it's genuine should be not a problem to be removed from lists.
Fair enough but I think you miss my main point. One those occasions when the woman can't be avoided are you as rude to her as you might be to someone on the phone?
Hmmm I would not give the person the time of day! So i suppose it can be classed as rude!
Having worked in a call centre for a long time I am already used to the rudeness but that doesn't mean it's ok and last night I just thought 'is it necessary for people to be so rude?'
People are rude its a fact of life i'm affraid! People are rude to me sometimes, that's the public for you!
Finally I would also like to say that if people have a problem with being called at home then perhaps they should ask for the contact details of the management and make a proper complaint rather than venting at the poor person who is only doing this to pay the bills. You will get your point across far better than you will be cursing down at the phone at the caller, who will just think you are a rude *#@$ and not care what you think. You can make a complaint far more effectively by being polite and getting people to sympathise with your frustration.
No sorry i don't have time for surveys/sales/cold calling so i ain't spending another second finding out were someone is from. Putting the phone down is simple and quick!! :angel:
Then you are not using "randomly created numbers" you are using directory numbers supplied to you which are then used to create dialing lists. A lot different to number generation which you stated a while back as NFFC stated you would have too many dropped calls if it were random numbers that a computer somewhere churned out.
Yes I am using randomly created numbers. The numbers are randomly generated and then compiled into a list. And yes we do have a lot of dropped calls.
No sorry i don't have time for surveys/sales/cold calling so i ain't spending another second finding out were someone is from. Putting the phone down is simple and quick!!
That's fair enough but the overall problem won't get solved then.
As nffc says, TPS does not cover market research.
Fair enough but I think you miss my main point. One those occasions when the woman can't be avoided are you as rude to her as you might be to someone on the phone?
Hmmm I would not give the person the time of day! So i suppose it can be classed as rude!
Having worked in a call centre for a long time I am already used to the rudeness but that doesn't mean it's ok and last night I just thought 'is it necessary for people to be so rude?'
People are rude its a fact of life i'm affraid! People are rude to me sometimes, that's the public for you!
Finally I would also like to say that if people have a problem with being called at home then perhaps they should ask for the contact details of the management and make a proper complaint rather than venting at the poor person who is only doing this to pay the bills. You will get your point across far better than you will be cursing down at the phone at the caller, who will just think you are a rude *#@$ and not care what you think. You can make a complaint far more effectively by being polite and getting people to sympathise with your frustration.
No sorry i don't have time for surveys/sales/cold calling so i ain't spending another second finding out were someone is from. Putting the phone down is simple and quick!! :angel:
Sorry but to be honest, that attitude is pretty crass.
I hope in your job you don't face the public, because if you did, and one was rude out of proportion, you'd know what it was like, and probably wouldn't have such an attitude.
Inbound is no better, some people just ring for a fight.
Sorry but to be honest, that attitude is pretty crass.
So someone ringing me up and me hanging up is a crass attitude? How? I don't want the call in the first place. They're wasting thier time and mine surely ending the call quick is relatively painless, i've not insulted them by saying nothing after all!!
I hope in your job you don't face the public, because if you did, and one was rude out of proportion, you'd know what it was like, and probably wouldn't have such an attitude.
I do face the public and belive me i have been shouted at but i'm proffesional enough to see they're shouting at the company i work for and i'm just the face of it! In all honesty people really do take people shouting at them far to personally! Anyone who deals with the public has dealt with that one person who is just so rude it is unbelieveable but i'm never rude back EVER!!
Inbound is no better, some people just ring for a fight.
Yes people do go looking for trouble but at the end of the day i have to deal with them and i do my job.
Sorry but to be honest, that attitude is pretty crass.
So someone ringing me up and me hanging up is a crass attitude? How? I don't want the call in the first place. They're wasting thier time and mine surely ending the call quick is relatively painless, i've not insulted them by saying nothing after all!!
I hope in your job you don't face the public, because if you did, and one was rude out of proportion, you'd know what it was like, and probably wouldn't have such an attitude.
I do face the public and belive me i have been shouted at but i'm proffesional enough to see they're shouting at the company i work for and i'm just the face of it! In all honesty people really do take people shouting at them far to personally! Anyone who deals with the public has dealt with that one person who is just so rude it is unbelieveable but i'm never rude back EVER!!
Inbound is no better, some people just ring for a fight.
Yes people do go looking for trouble but at the end of the day i have to deal with them and i do my job.
But you would feel a tad **** right, if you were being insulted for doing your job- if you get my point.
I work in inbound CS/TS and we get mainly n00bs who have so much viruses on the PCs they don't really work, we get the odd one who expects the earth and tries to shout the odds until they get it, even if they're not entitled to it, the odd few difficult ones who just want to go on and start a fight, the majority are OK and appreciative which is roughly what I found doing MR- the ones who politely declined are fine, the ones that insult you for dialling a phone number are different. But in all honesty, you sometimes end the call (normally the customer hangs up) and pause whilst you catch up on call notes, and think "what a prat" or something more insulting- course you never say it though. Just makes you less inclined to want to do something for them, which is wrong I know.
You work with the public, don't especially like them being rude, yet treat cold callers with utter contempt- that does surprise me, tbh.
So someone ringing me up and me hanging up is a crass attitude? How? I don't want the call in the first place. They're wasting thier time and mine surely ending the call quick is relatively painless, i've not insulted them by saying nothing after all!!
I can see your point but nonetheless I find it rude when people just hang up on me. It is dismissive and disrespectful.
If it is genuine market research and I have the time I am happy to talk to the person but if it is some one trying to sell me some thing eg double glazing as soon as I say sorry I live in a council house I find 9 times out of 10 they put the phone down on ME so I don't get the chance to be rude even if I wanted to be lol
But you would feel a tad **** right, if you were being insulted for doing your job- if you get my point.
I can't say i feel angry! The way i see it is the public aren't really shouting at me personally, so i never take offence! I do see your point though. :)
<snip>
Just makes you less inclined to want to do something for them, which is wrong I know.
I know exactly what you mean! But we have a job to do and I just get on with it!
You work with the public, don't especially like them being rude, yet treat cold callers with utter contempt- that does surprise me, tbh.
I choose to flatly ignore salesmen/cold callers/survey types! These people seek me out by coming to me in the street/ calling at my door / ringing me!! If i want something i look for it that is the difference.
Take for instance the windows and door's man that stands in the enterance at Morrisons... he stands in my path when i go shopping!! I don't want to know... I want to do my shopping, if i wanted windows or doors i would ring him or go to him and ask him for a quote!
Or the Sky man doing his ace deals in the shopping precinct i have Sky and NTL i phoned them to get it! Sky man down the high street disrupts my shopping time!
__________________
I can see your point but nonetheless I find it rude when people just hang up on me. It is dismissive and disrespectful.
Fair enough Claire but infairness if you rang my phone and say had the wrong number i would be perfectly civil about it! I just don't like any sort of cold calling!
Funnily enough i did once consider a job in Sales but decided against it because it involved ringing people up. lol :angel:
Clarie may well be "my bird" but I've purposely asked her to stray away from my phone number - if I get an unsolicited call I won't be rude to them however I won't give them any information whatsoever, I'll just ask which company they represent, a number for complaints and where they obtained my number. I then end the call.
The same goes for when I get a call from my bank or insurance company etc who immediately ask me to confirm my DOB, address etc as soon as I pick up. I give them NO information at all. If a company is calling me and I did not specifically ask them to call, the it is I who will be in control of the call, not them.
if I get an unsolicited call I won't be rude to them however I won't give them any information whatsoever, I'll just ask which company they represent, a number for complaints and where they obtained my number. I then end the call.
And that's the way to do it rather than giving the caller a mouthful.
I write this thread not to complain about call centres but to defend them - particularly outbound call centre agents. I reckon everyone should give us a break.
I work as an outbound call agent and that usually involves calling people who aren't expecting my call, ie they don't know me. However I don't work in sales.
I suspect people act like that because (in my experience) 99% of people cold calling are trying to sell something (even if they say is is a survey).
I usually say politely (but firmly) "I am not interested". If they carry on, sorry, but I do tend to hang up.
The one exception was when my sister was having a operation, and we had been asked by the hospital to stay at home and wait by the phone. Then BAC phoned up trying to sell us new windows.. The caller persisted after being told I was not interested, so I shouted at him to go **** himself and hung up.
To paraphrase a certain expression: If they don't like that sort of thing, they shouldn't be doing the job in the first place.
It's really not that simple. I have been trying for a long time to get other work elsewhere, but no other sort of place offers such flexibility with hours with comparable rates of pay.
Did you ever wonder *why* the job was open or *why* there were such good terms and pay...?!
I'm sorry if you can't find any other work, but it's a bit like complaining you come home smelling of fried food because the only job you can get is slinging burgers in Mickey D's.
Besides this doesn't address the issue of the rudeness of some people.
No, that was addressed below...
They have *already* been rude to me by ignoring my wishes, so I have no qualms about being rude back to them.
The way we get numbers is by random telephone number generation, so we don't know whether the numbers we are calling are are ex-directory or not. I can appreciate that it is annoying that having gone ex-dir, you can still be contacted by people you don't know. However we are not flouting any rules at all, we don't get numbers from a phone directory.
Pardon me if I say that sounds like "weaselling".
Are those numbers checked with the TPS? If the company has the slightest sense of ethics they would do so.
And just because you're not breaching the *letter* of the rules, does not mean that you're not walking all over the *spirit* of them.
I therefore don't consider it to be particularly rude of us I'm afraid,
So because *you* don't think that you're being rude, nobody is allowed to consider that you *are* being rude?
certainly not the individual who has been given a list of numbers to call that has been produced by someone else.
Whilst I agree that, in general, customers should not abuse the "point of contact" staff of an organisation (eg having a go at bank counter staff when it's not *their* fault that something's gone wrong), in this case, it's somewhat different because it is *you* that is contacting *them*, rather than vice versa.
My line of work involves surveys.
*What* surveys? Who exactly do you work for? Is it *really* a survey or just an excuse to try to get around the TPS?
Consider it this way, when you're stopped by a woman in the street with a clipboard who asks if you have time to participate in some market research, do you tell her to %*#@ off? Or are you more polite because that is considered rude?
If I am walking down the street and someone approaches me I can just say "no thanks" or ignore them and keep walking (even though that's also probably "rude").
But imagine someone's walking along and talking with a friend and someone stops them and interrupts the conversation.
Or what if someone's sitting on a bench and reading a newspaper or magazine?
Or what if someone's shopping or otherwise occupied?
*Who* exactly is being rude there?
That is what happens when someone phones up with a "survey" call.
*They* are the ones who are interrupting. They are taking the person away from what they were doing because *they* think what they're doing is more important.
They have already been rude and they have nobody else to blame if they get rudeness in return.
I think people are a lot more likely to be polite to a person in the street, and therefore think that the telephone provides a mask behind which you can speak to people however you like, and I think that is just as rude.
So wouldn't the converse *also* be true? It allows the caller a "mask" which they can hide behind whilst they annoy and irritate and interrupt people who aren't interested in what they are selling/ pushing/ surveying and, as you have already mentioned, seems to allow them to score petty revenge points by getting other people to call them *again* and otherwise be a downright nuisance.
IMO any calls like this should be "opt in", you should have to put your name *on* a list if you want these calls, not have to say "I don't want to be called by these people".
__________________
If market research companies had to rely solely on those who 'opt in' then they would never get sufficient responses to their surveys and therefore their clients would not have sufficient public response on which to base the marketing and development of their products, or on the promotion of whatever it is they deal with. Market research is very important - it allows companies and organisations to get some customer feedback on their products/services, and invaluable opinions on the way certain things are run and dealt with.
Well I'm sorry, but that's just too bad.
And *who* exactly *benefits* from this research?
Me? How am I going to benefit from a company knowing how to market or promote their product better?
So I'm being used as an unpaid research assistant to help some company make bigger profits.
Pardon me if I decline!
Well I'm sorry, but that's just too bad.
And *who* exactly *benefits* from this research?
Me? How am I going to benefit from a company knowing how to market or promote their product better?
So I'm being used as an unpaid research assistant to help some company make bigger profits.
Pardon me if I decline!
You never know, she may be asking marketing questions which will benefit small business sized-purveyors of adult-orientated goods......:angel:
You never know, she may be asking marketing questions which will benefit small business sized-purveyors of adult-orientated goods......:angel:
If so, she is *NOT* nor would she *EVER* be doing it on my behalf.
I *respect* my customers' privacy and would *never* intrude on them in this way.
Unfortunately some companies lack my (or any) sense of ethics in matters such as this.
If so, she is *NOT* nor would she *EVER* be doing it on my behalf.
I *respect* my customers' privacy and would *never* intrude on them in this way.
Unfortunately some companies lack my (or any) sense of ethics in matters such as this.
I didn't say she might be doing it on YOUR behalf. I said she may (this is hypothetical as I know she actually isn't) be doing it to benefit companies such as yours. Whether or not you would then choose to act on the research gleaned in this way is of course up to you. But there may well be a similar businessman to yourself who would ultimately benefit from a change in marketing strategy bourne out of the information she is collecting.
Did you ever wonder *why* the job was open or *why* there were such good terms and pay...?!
Well yes of course. Doesn't really relate to the debate however.
I'm sorry if you can't find any other work, but it's a bit like complaining you come home smelling of fried food because the only job you can get is slinging burgers in Mickey D's.
Yes and what if it is like that? What's your point?
Pardon me if I say that sounds like "weaselling".
Pardon me if I say that sounds like an insult. Please clarify what you mean by "weaselling".
Are those numbers checked with the TPS? If the company has the slightest sense of ethics they would do so.
I don't know as I don't deal with the admin side of it. All I know is that the TPS does NOT prevent market research calls.
So because *you* don't think that you're being rude, nobody is allowed to consider that you *are* being rude?
Did I say that? Anyone is entitled to think I am rude. How they express that to me is a different matter. Particularly when I go out of my way to be as polite as possible on the phone.
*What* surveys? Who exactly do you work for? Is it *really* a survey or just an excuse to try to get around the TPS?
I am not telling you who I work for. (BTW this sounds like an interrogation). And yes, it IS really a survey, and no it is not a way to 'get around' the TPS because the TPS is there to prevent cold sales calling and I work in MARKET RESEARCH.
So I'm being used as an unpaid research assistant to help some company make bigger profits.
Pardon me if I decline!
Please do decline. Just make sure you do it with a bit of civility and dignity.
If so, she is *NOT* nor would she *EVER* be doing it on my behalf.
I *respect* my customers' privacy and would *never* intrude on them in this way.
Unfortunately some companies lack my (or any) sense of ethics in matters such as this.
I didn't say she might be doing it on YOUR behalf. I said she may (this is hypothetical as I know she actually isn't) be doing it to benefit companies such as yours.
The point was that I have a sense of ethics in this matter. Others don't.
If I, or any other company, *did* want to do market research they should do like I do and *only* include those who have opted *in* by signing up to my mailing list.
This should be the same for any other company too. If that makes life hard for them, that's just too bad. It's better than people being bothered by nuisance calls.
The point was that I have a sense of ethics in this matter. Others don't.
That may well be the case. It's also off topic.
If I, or any other company, *did* want to do market research they should do like I do and *only* include those who have opted *in* by signing up to my mailing list.
They should do like you do, eh? On who's authority?
This should be the same for any other company too. If that makes life hard for them, that's just too bad. It's better than people being bothered by nuisance calls.
Market research is part of business life Graham - you should know that and that's taking in to consideration you have a vast wealth of knowledge on business matters compared to me.
If I, or any other company, *did* want to do market research they should do like I do and *only* include those who have opted *in* by signing up to my mailing list.
The way you do it is not necessarily the best way to do it. It is certainly worth noting that if you only research amongst your existing customers then you are targeting a relatively small sector.
This should be the same for any other company too. If that makes life hard for them, that's just too bad. It's better than people being bothered by nuisance calls.
Is it? You know not everyone takes quite as much exception to market research calls as you obviously do. Some people are as friendly and as helpful as can be, and that isn't just old people who like a nice chat, that covers all types of people. I am amazed sometimes by how helpful some people will be. And the responses they give are crucial to the running of the surveys. Which don't just provide useful information for companies - there are many public organisations that benefit from our work too.
It is just a shame that our shifts are always tainted by the rude ones...
Did you ever wonder *why* the job was open or *why* there were such good terms and pay...?!
Well yes of course. Doesn't really relate to the debate however.
I'm sorry if you can't find any other work, but it's a bit like complaining you come home smelling of fried food because the only job you can get is slinging burgers in Mickey D's.
Yes and what if it is like that? What's your point?
Should I answer that? It doesn't really relate to the debate, you know...
Pardon me if I say that sounds like "weaselling".
Pardon me if I say that sounds like an insult. Please clarify what you mean by "weaselling".
Trying to get around the spirit of the law by sticking to the *letter* of the law.
And I consider insulting when someone claims that they're "not trying to sell something, just doing a survey" when 99 times out of a hundred they *are* engaged in a process that *will* try to sell me something.
That's an insult to my intelligence as much as anything if they think I'll fall for it!
Are those numbers checked with the TPS? If the company has the slightest sense of ethics they would do so.
I don't know as I don't deal with the admin side of it. All I know is that the TPS does NOT prevent market research calls.
See "weaselling" above.
If I sign up to the TPS it does *NOT* mean that "I don't want people to phone me up selling stuff, but I don't mind if a market researcher calls me" it means I *DO NOT* want unsolicited phone calls, FULL STOP.
So because *you* don't think that you're being rude, nobody is allowed to consider that you *are* being rude?
Did I say that? Anyone is entitled to think I am rude. How they express that to me is a different matter. Particularly when I go out of my way to be as polite as possible on the phone.
As I have already pointed out, the rudeness has *already* happened with the unsolicited call.
So I'm being used as an unpaid research assistant to help some company make bigger profits.
Pardon me if I decline!
Please do decline. Just make sure you do it with a bit of civility and dignity.
I have *ALREADY* declined by signing up to the TPS and I've covered this above.
atlantis
18-09-2005, 01:04
Guess we've all got to accept that in this day and age, we are all no longer "out of reach" contact wise, all our contact details are "out there" and will remain so, nothing we can seemingly do about any of it.
I've had NTL change my number, to avoid these types of calls, didn't work, registered with TPS, didn't work, opted out of NTL's contact me bit on calls, emails, direct/indirect marketing, but not expecting good things of that either!
When I get any of this type of call now, I simply say "no thank you" and hang up, works untill the next call comes through, so I leave the answere machine on after 5pm, to screen and take calls, seems to work OK.
The point was that I have a sense of ethics in this matter. Others don't.
That may well be the case. It's also off topic.
Why exactly is it "off topic"?
If I do research I will do it with who *want* to be contacted, not those who don't.
That's ethical from where I'm sitting and sounds entirely on topic to me.
If I, or any other company, *did* want to do market research they should do like I do and *only* include those who have opted *in* by signing up to my mailing list.
They should do like you do, eh? On who's authority?
What?? :confused:
I'm stating an opinion. In my opinion that's the ethical way to do this.
This should be the same for any other company too. If that makes life hard for them, that's just too bad. It's better than people being bothered by nuisance calls.
Market research is part of business life Graham - you should know that and that's taking in to consideration you have a vast wealth of knowledge on business matters compared to me.
Not p'ing off potential customers is *also* part of business life...!
Having respect for customers (even the stupid ones!) is *also* part of business life!
Trying to get around the spirit of the law by sticking to the *letter* of the law.
And I consider insulting when someone claims that they're "not trying to sell something, just doing a survey" when 99 times out of a hundred they *are* engaged in a process that *will* try to sell me something.
That's an insult to my intelligence as much as anything if they think I'll fall for it!
Aha! Now I see where you're coming from. I also get annoyed when they try that with me.
However clarie has assured us that isn't what her company does so should we not give her the benefit of the doubt?
If I, or any other company, *did* want to do market research they should do like I do and *only* include those who have opted *in* by signing up to my mailing list.
The way you do it is not necessarily the best way to do it.
No, it is not necessarily the "best" way. It is, however, IMO, the more ethical way.
It is certainly worth noting that if you only research amongst your existing customers then you are targeting a relatively small sector.
Yes, I'm aware of that. But at least I know they *want* to participate.
This should be the same for any other company too. If that makes life hard for them, that's just too bad. It's better than people being bothered by nuisance calls.
Is it? You know not everyone takes quite as much exception to market research calls as you obviously do.
So why make such a big deal about the rude ones? Surely, based on this comment, they're only a small percentage, so deal with it and get on with your job :shrug:
Should I answer that? It doesn't really relate to the debate, you know...
No perhaps you shouldn't, your original remark was offensive enough in the first place.
Trying to get around the spirit of the law by sticking to the *letter* of the law.
I am not trying to get around the law by sticking to the letter of the law. We do not take our numbers from the phone directory, therefore the fact that you are ex-directory is irrelevant.
And I consider insulting when someone claims that they're "not trying to sell something, just doing a survey" when 99 times out of a hundred they *are* engaged in a process that *will* try to sell me something.
If you don't respond to the surveys then how do you know what their aims are? Market Research may be ultimately linked, in some cases, to improving sales, but that link is tenuous and in my case there is not one aspect of selling involved in what I do.
If I sign up to the TPS it does *NOT* mean that "I don't want people to phone me up selling stuff, but I don't mind if a market researcher calls me" it means I *DO NOT* want unsolicited phone calls, FULL STOP.
Then I suggesed you take this up with your provider.
I have *ALREADY* declined by signing up to the TPS and I've covered this above.
Were this the case we would not be able to call you. Market research is not covered by TPS, and if this is a problem for you then you should take it up with BT or NTL or whoever provides the service for you.
Why exactly is it "off topic"?
Your point was based on the fact that you have ethics - this thread is about people being rude to market researchers.
What?? :confused:
I'm stating an opinion. In my opinion that's the ethical way to do this.
And in your opinion would you say ethics are subjective?
Not p'ing off potential customers is *also* part of business life...!
Having respect for customers (even the stupid ones!) is *also* part of business life!
Not p'ing them off and having respect for them sounds very much like the way she goes about her business. If she's being polite to people (including the nasty ones) then I think she's covered that.
And I consider insulting when someone claims that they're "not trying to sell something, just doing a survey" when 99 times out of a hundred they *are* engaged in a process that *will* try to sell me something.
That's an insult to my intelligence as much as anything if they think I'll fall for it!
Aha! Now I see where you're coming from. I also get annoyed when they try that with me.
However clarie has assured us that isn't what her company does so should we not give her the benefit of the doubt?
*HOW* exactly am I going to tell that she's the "one in a hundred" that is actually a genuine market researcher, rather than a time-wasting, intelligence-insulting, con-merchant apart from by wasting the time to actually go through the entire call and then find that she's *not* actually selling anything?
Actually I don't think I'll bother.
So why make such a big deal about the rude ones? Surely, based on this comment, they're only a small percentage, so deal with it and get on with your job :shrug:
Well no, 'not everyone' does not equal the vast majority.
'Deal with it and get on with your job'? I do not expect to be spoken to in such a dismissive manner by you or anyone else on this forum Graham. How about you try to remain civil?
*HOW* exactly am I going to tell that she's the "one in a hundred" that is actually a genuine market researcher, rather than a time-wasting, intelligence-insulting, con-merchant apart from by wasting the time to actually go through the entire call and then find that she's *not* actually selling anything?
I'm talking about her admission and discussion on CF?
__________________
'Deal with it and get on with your job'? I do not expect to be spoken to in such a dismissive manner by you or anyone else on this forum Graham. How about you try to remain civil?
How about we ALL remain civil? :)
Should I answer that? It doesn't really relate to the debate, you know...
No perhaps you shouldn't, your original remark was offensive enough in the first place.
:confused: What was offensive about it?
If you think it was offensive, please, feel free to report it to the Moderators...
Trying to get around the spirit of the law by sticking to the *letter* of the law.
I am not trying to get around the law by sticking to the letter of the law. We do not take our numbers from the phone directory, therefore the fact that you are ex-directory is irrelevant.
There's a word for that...!!! :rolleyes:
And I consider insulting when someone claims that they're "not trying to sell something, just doing a survey" when 99 times out of a hundred they *are* engaged in a process that *will* try to sell me something.
If you don't respond to the surveys then how do you know what their aims are?
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
If I sign up to the TPS it does *NOT* mean that "I don't want people to phone me up selling stuff, but I don't mind if a market researcher calls me" it means I *DO NOT* want unsolicited phone calls, FULL STOP.
Then I suggesed you take this up with your provider.
Why? They will simply reply, quite correctly, that it has absolutely nothing to do with them.
*HOW* exactly am I going to tell that she's the "one in a hundred" that is actually a genuine market researcher, rather than a time-wasting, intelligence-insulting, con-merchant apart from by wasting the time to actually go through the entire call and then find that she's *not* actually selling anything?
Actually I don't think I'll bother.
Such is the strength of your abhorrence for market research callers that I would be glad if you didn't bother. However I will return to the original point I made in this thread which is that I would ask you to decline politely.
Why exactly is it "off topic"?
Your point was based on the fact that you have ethics - this thread is about people being rude to market researchers.
My point was that I have ethics which, *in this case* referred to my ethical behaviour in performing market research, hence entirely *on* topic!
What?? :confused:
I'm stating an opinion. In my opinion that's the ethical way to do this.
And in your opinion would you say ethics are subjective?
Of course. (You should know my opinions on that by now...! :) )
I have no "authority", or, indeed, ability to enforce my beliefs or ethical standards on anyone else.
However, in my *opinion*, that would be the better way of doing things.
Not p'ing off potential customers is *also* part of business life...!
Having respect for customers (even the stupid ones!) is *also* part of business life!
Not p'ing them off and having respect for them sounds very much like the way she goes about her business. If she's being polite to people (including the nasty ones) then I think she's covered that.
Sorry, but having respect for people does *not* IMO include saying that because the TPS doesn't cover market research calls it can therefore be *ignored*.
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham
If I sign up to the TPS it does *NOT* mean that "I don't want people to phone me up selling stuff, but I don't mind if a market researcher calls me" it means I *DO NOT* want unsolicited phone calls, FULL STOP.
Then I suggesed you take this up with your provider.
Why? They will simply reply, quite correctly, that it has absolutely nothing to do with them.
Yeah not so sure I agree there. They are supposed to be filtering your calls. Not us.
OK peeps, let's walk away from this......
MovedGoalPosts
18-09-2005, 01:23
This is undoubtedly an emotive issue for those who have to make these calls as part of their job, and those who are on the recieving end. Lets all take a bit of a chill pill here before this thread becomes too personal.
So why make such a big deal about the rude ones? Surely, based on this comment, they're only a small percentage, so deal with it and get on with your job :shrug:
Well no, 'not everyone' does not equal the vast majority.
'Deal with it and get on with your job'? I do not expect to be spoken to in such a dismissive manner by you or anyone else on this forum Graham. How about you try to remain civil?
For that one, I do apologise.
__________________
*HOW* exactly am I going to tell that she's the "one in a hundred" that is actually a genuine market researcher, rather than a time-wasting, intelligence-insulting, con-merchant apart from by wasting the time to actually go through the entire call and then find that she's *not* actually selling anything?
I'm talking about her admission and discussion on CF?
I don't see your point. :confused:
We're talking about the unsolicited calls that are made, not discussions on here.
Apology accepted. :)
Off to bed. Night all.
For that one, I do apologise.
:eek: ;) :D
As Rob says, it's an emotive subject especially when you have two people on oposite ends of the opinion scale regarding this. Just be grateful clarie isn't one of those people who stops you in the street and asks, "Any accidents or injuries in the last 3 years sir.....?" :disturbd:
*HOW* exactly am I going to tell that she's the "one in a hundred" that is actually a genuine market researcher, rather than a time-wasting, intelligence-insulting, con-merchant apart from by wasting the time to actually go through the entire call and then find that she's *not* actually selling anything?
Actually I don't think I'll bother.
Such is the strength of your abhorrence for market research callers that I would be glad if you didn't bother. However I will return to the original point I made in this thread which is that I would ask you to decline politely.
I have no "abhorrence for market research callers". I'm sure they are very nice people who I'd quite like if I met them personally.
However if someone chooses to disrespect my wishes and call me when I have already indicated that I do *not* want to be called, I reserve the right to respond to them in any manner I see fit.
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Then I suggesed you take this up with your provider.
Why? They will simply reply, quite correctly, that it has absolutely nothing to do with them.
Yeah not so sure I agree there. They are supposed to be filtering your calls. Not us.
Why exactly are NTL supposed to be "filtering my calls"?
NTL have nothing to do with the TPS, they don't run it, they don't enforce it, it's nothing to do with them.
AIUI the TPS distributes a list to all of their members saying "the numbers on this list have chosen to opt out of your calls, so don't contactl them".
NTL aren't involved at all.
However if someone chooses to disrespect my wishes and call me when I have already indicated that I do *not* want to be called, I reserve the right to respond to them in any manner I see fit.
What if there has been a genuine error beyond the market researcher's control, such as the TPS not registering you correctly or whatever? Would you still feel justified in being rude to the caller then (which is how I have perceived from your replies you might be)?
For that one, I do apologise.
:eek: ;) :D
It does happen.
Occasionally...! :D
Just be grateful clarie isn't one of those people who stops you in the street and asks, "Any accidents or injuries in the last 3 years sir.....?" :disturbd:
Don't tempt me!
There's a certain inclination to respond:
"No, how about you? No?? Want one...?!" :grind: ;)
There's a certain inclination to respond:
"No, how about you? No?? Want one...?!" :grind: ;)
My response has always been "No, I've always looked like this".
The look on their faces as they try to work out if I'm serious or not is priceless.
However if someone chooses to disrespect my wishes and call me when I have already indicated that I do *not* want to be called, I reserve the right to respond to them in any manner I see fit.
What if there has been a genuine error beyond the market researcher's control, such as the TPS not registering you correctly or whatever? Would you still feel justified in being rude to the caller then (which is how I have perceived from your replies you might be)?
I'd point out that I've never actually said I *would* be rude to them (I've only made one careless slip in this thread and that's one more than I normally ever make! :) )
But you're creating an entirely hypothetical situation laden with assumptions and I (politely! :PP: :D ) decline to answer...! ;)
I'd point out that I've never actually said I *would* be rude to them (I've only made one careless slip in this thread and that's one more than I normally ever make! :) )
But you're creating an entirely hypothetical situation laden with assumptions and I (politely! :PP: :D ) decline to answer...! ;)
OK granted.
But from your replies, it would indicate to me that if a market researcher (and I'm talking about a legitimate one) called you up, there exists the potential (my choice of word) for you to be rude to them (the right to which, you have said you reserve) for disturbing you, or phoning you when you have taken steps to see that it doesn't happen.
The question I now ask is do you not accept that any such rudeness would be unwarranted (or misplaced) if a third party error was to blame for your phone number filtering through to that research company?
Chrysalis
18-09-2005, 05:52
Consider it this way, when you're stopped by a woman in the street with a clipboard who asks if you have time to participate in some market research, do you tell her to %*#@ off? Or are you more polite because that is considered rude? I think people are a lot more likely to be polite to a person in the street, and therefore think that the telephone provides a mask behind which you can speak to people however you like, and I think that is just as rude.
Unless the women turns me on I would usually just blank her out which is rude but I consider the most polite way to say I am not interested.
Why not generate a list of phone calls from people through various means have opted for survey's eg. you could work with phone companies such as BT and NTL asking them to ask people when they sign up if they ok with survey's in the evening, you will eventually get a list (probably small) of people who have gave you specific permission to ring up, there is nothing moral about random number generation and flouting ex directory.
Saying that when I fob people off I dont have the grudge against the person ringing me I know they earning a living, its the company they work for so dont take it to heart. Just accept it as part of the job.
If I sign up to the TPS it does *NOT* mean that "I don't want people to phone me up selling stuff, but I don't mind if a market researcher calls me".
Yes it does.
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NTL have nothing to do with the TPS, they don't run it, they don't enforce it, it's nothing to do with them.
AIUI the TPS distributes a list to all of their members saying "the numbers on this list have chosen to opt out of your calls, so don't contactl them".
NTL aren't involved at all.
Neither are the MRS.
Hi all
I phoned my credit card company yesterday as a payment went a miss and I missed my payment date. I always pay the balance in full but a couple of time this has not happened so I just phone the company apologise and say I want to cancel my card as I do not agree with the late payment charge of £25.00. They have always said ok we will refund it !
However yesterday I got through to a non-UK based call centre. Went through the above and when I got to the OK I will cancel my card they said fine :dozey: :dozey: :dozey:
Case of just follow the script !
Mike
If I sign up to the TPS it does *NOT* mean that "I don't want people to phone me up selling stuff, but I don't mind if a market researcher calls me".
Yes it does.
Erm no it doesn't. It just means that TPS doesn't cover Market research calls or calls that don't involve the selling of a product or service.
People sign up to the TPS list because they don't want any unsolicited calls, unfortunately it doesn't cover all the different kinds of unsolicited calls; which means people still get calls from call centres etc. This just adds to the annoyance that some people feel when cold-calling occurs as they feel they should be protected against them because they have taken the time to sign up to a service which should be stopping the calls from happening.
If a system were to be introduced that allowed people to opt out of receiving all unsolicited calls and mail shots from commercial businesses or research groups I would expect that there would be a very high take up percentage. Some people just do not like the thought of people or companies having or using their telephone numbers without their consent especially when they feel they have done everything they can to stop it from happening.
Why exactly are NTL supposed to be "filtering my calls"?
NTL have nothing to do with the TPS, they don't run it, they don't enforce it, it's nothing to do with them.
AIUI the TPS distributes a list to all of their members saying "the numbers on this list have chosen to opt out of your calls, so don't contactl them".
NTL aren't involved at all.
Ok understood, my bad. Nothing to do with NTL. But what I meant was that you should take it up with the TPS and not with us, because as we have already stated, TPS does not cover market research, just marketing calls.
However if someone chooses to disrespect my wishes and call me when I have already indicated that I do *not* want to be called, I reserve the right to respond to them in any manner I see fit.
I still do not agree on this point, we have not disregarded your request not to be called because taking on TPS does not prevent market researchers from calling you. However if we call and you explain you are on the TPS, and we still call you, then I can appreciate your annoyance. I will enquire at work as to whether or not they check the TPS lists when compiling our samples.
I still don't see that you have the right to respond to callers in any matter you see fit. Human beings have the right to be treated with respect, and whilst you consider that the caller has not respected you by calling you against your will, you need to realise that the individual caller is not to blame.
Unless the women turns me on I would usually just blank her out which is rude but I consider the most polite way to say I am not interested.
I don't understand how you can acknowlegde that is rude but still claim it to be the most polite method. How about "No thanks I'm not interested"?
Why not generate a list of phone calls from people through various means have opted for survey's eg. you could work with phone companies such as BT and NTL asking them to ask people when they sign up if they ok with survey's in the evening, you will eventually get a list (probably small) of people who have gave you specific permission to ring up, there is nothing moral about random number generation and flouting ex directory.
I don't see the immorality of random number generation, and the problem with the method you have suggested is that there simply would not be enough people. Plus all those people would then be inundated with every single survey we do. Also, a very important aspect of market research is that we get a very broad sample of ages, sexes, and occupations. We simply wouldn't get this if we relied on your suggested method.
Also there are a lot of people out there who wouldn't go out of their way to sign up to such a service, and yet are willing to participate in one survey if we call them when we have a minute spare, and they like the sound of our voices!
People sign up to the TPS list because they don't want any unsolicited calls, unfortunately it doesn't cover all the different kinds of unsolicited calls; which means people still get calls from call centres etc. This just adds to the annoyance that some people feel when cold-calling occurs as they feel they should be protected against them because they have taken the time to sign up to a service which should be stopping the calls from happening.
I can totally understand this point of view, but as I have said, the issue should then be with the TPS and not with the caller.
I called back, and his wife told me they 'really weren't interested.'
Did you not get that from what he'd done previously? If you'd have called me back you'd have gotten more than a "we're really not interested".
That's just asking for trouble Claire :(
Did you not get that from what he'd done previously? If you'd have called me back you'd have gotten more than a "we're really not interested".
That's just asking for trouble Claire
I did think there may have been a mistake. Furthermore, at first I refused to believe that someone would go to the trouble of making up excuses, and leaving their phone line off the hook simply to put me off, rather than saying 'no thanks' and putting it down.
Did you not get that from what he'd done previously? If you'd have called me back you'd have gotten more than a "we're really not interested".
That's just asking for trouble Claire
I did think there may have been a mistake. Furthermore, at first I refused to believe that someone would go to the trouble of making up excuses, and leaving their phone line off the hook simply to put me off, rather than saying 'no thanks' and putting it down.
Nope some will do that, they feel that their time is being wasted by people calling them about surveys etc so they feel it's only right to waste your time. Not nice but like I said there are people like that out there.
Nope some will do that, they feel that their time is being wasted by people calling them about surveys etc so they feel it's only right to waste your time. Not nice but like I said there are people like that out there.
I think that's very sad and unnecessary. There is at least an aim in my actions, and I explain that at the outset.
Nope some will do that, they feel that their time is being wasted by people calling them about surveys etc so they feel it's only right to waste your time. Not nice but like I said there are people like that out there.
I think that's very sad and unnecessary. There is at least an aim in my actions, and I explain that at the outset.
Unfortunately just by calling them you are causing them to feel as though their privacy/ free time is being invaded which then makes them feel they should get some form of payback. Thankfully I would expect that those people are few and far between but by calling him back you probably only made him think of more things to do to extend the delaying tactics next time it happens.
Unfortunately just by calling them you are causing them to feel as though their privacy/ free time is being invaded which then makes them feel they should get some form of payback. Thankfully I would expect that those people are few and far between but by calling him back you probably only made him think of more things to do to extend the delaying tactics next time it happens.
Ridiculous and petty. If everyone reacted in the same way then I am sure market research calls would come to an end. But there are a group of people out there who are only too happy to lend a hand and those people make these people mentioned above look rather silly. The people who say 'No thanks' also do, because as I have said before, people have absolutely every right to refuse and I really respect those people who refuse in a polite way. Some are even very apologetic which is unnecessary but still very nice. And then there are these petty ones who just want 'revenge'.
so it appears random but if it was dialled numbers at random there would be a low success rate and an unmanageably high amount of wasted time. The numbers have to be compiled from somewhere and I would imagine out of courtesy they'd be checked. I think you're assuming something.
Do you know for sure that a lot of market research companies don't screen the lists?
Yes I do because I've worked for a couple, not doing the calling but working in other sections of the same company.:erm: Stop chanting "guilty by association" at the back :p:
Many phone MR and sales companys use a pots system where a computer dials 20 numbers (either randomly generated or from a list) in the knowledge that statisticly only 25% or so will get answered. When these calls are answered they are put through to agents waiting for the calls.
In many instances the managers don't know how to use the system properly or don't take into account peaks and troughs involved with more people being at home in the evening or out in the day. :monkey: It's these companys (not Claire's by the sound of it) that cause you to get a call from what sounds like a dead line.
In the instances of the numbers being generated randomly the computer starts with say 01455 299999 and works down to 01455 200000, either that or the other way around. The computer has so many lines connected the fact that it may not get through to all the numbers doesn't matter. It will ring as many different numbers as it takes to get the 20 calls it needs. So the numbers aren't generated in a random order (although they aren't taken from a list so they are random in some sense of the word) but in a logical and controlled manner.
The company will move on to another dialling code once they have called all the numbers. Saying that, they may come back to that dialling code again if they haven't had many hits within it. They can also re-hit particular area codes that are known to be more affluent or contain a higher number of ABC1 residents. This is why my poor grandparents sometimes get several calls from the same company within the space of two or three days. They are at home to answer the phone a lot, if they were out they'd probably only be in to answer one of them. You can understand why they get fed-up with it.
There is a way to stop this, it's called silent call gusrd. Not too sure how it works butI guess it's set at the switch/exchange to block calls to you r line when there is this "dredging" activity in your area code.
Yes, if they are direct marketing or sales calls. Alternatively, you may be interested in an additional service called 'Silentcall-Guard' Silentcall-Guard, (which is not part of BT Privacy at Home), is a system run by UK Data IT that may help reduce the number of unwanted silent calls from diallers used by telemarketing companies. Register your telephone number with Silentcall-Guard and it becomes active within 48 hours. Your number is then effectively blocked for twelve months, before being removed from the Silentcall-Guard system. You can then re-register with Silentcall-Guard. You can register by dialling the automated service on 0870 444 3969 or online at
http://shop.bt.com/page/btprivacyfaq :D
Unfortunately Claire it is these companys that ruin it for everyone as most people just tar all cold callers with the same brush. Personally I do too because I just can't be sure how much they are trying to swindle out of me.
My stance on this was hardened the other week when me and my partner both kept receiving calls from deal lines on our mobiles. We knew they were from a company misusing a pots type system because my phone would ring and there would be no one there and then my partners would ring a few seconds later. Our numbers are virtually the same only his ends in 552 and mine 461.
We finally managed to answer in time and it was a lady saying she was making a "customer service call". when I asked here to confirm she was calling from EasyMobile she said "oh no, I'm from the network Three" we want to know if you happy with your phone. Hardly a customer service call when I'm not even one of their customers. :mad:
All I can say is they are con artists of the highest order but unfortunately I now fell I can't trust anyone who makes an unsolicited call to me and they get a short shrift.
Sorry if any of this has been said previously but I've only read upto page 4 so far. :)
This is why my poor grandparents sometimes get several calls from the same company within the space of two or three days. They are at home to answer the phone a lot, if they were out they'd probably only be in to answer one of them. You can understand why they get fed-up with it.
I can definitely understand why they get fed up with it. I do in principle understand entirely why it is an annoyance.
We finally managed to answer in time and it was a lady saying she was making a "customer service call". when I asked here to confirm she was calling from EasyMobile she said "oh no, I'm from the network Three" we want to know if you happy with your phone. Hardly a customer service call when I'm not even one of their customers. :mad:
I'm on three and i've had this exact call! Absolutley pointless call!! You'd think there own computer system would tell them i was happy on three by the lack of calls i had made to Customer Service!! :rolleyes:
If I sign up to the TPS it does *NOT* mean that "I don't want people to phone me up selling stuff, but I don't mind if a market researcher calls me".
Yes it does.
Erm no it doesn't. It just means that TPS doesn't cover Market research calls or calls that don't involve the selling of a product or service.
That's a paradox.
People sign up to the TPS list because they don't want any unsolicited calls, unfortunately it doesn't cover all the different kinds of unsolicited calls; which means people still get calls from call centres etc.
That's because they haven't read it carefully.
This just adds to the annoyance that some people feel when cold-calling occurs as they feel they should be protected against them because they have taken the time to sign up to a service which should be stopping the calls from happening.
But as we've explained, as it doesn't cover certain calls, only direct marketing, it shouldn't stop the calls. Again, what you have said is a paradox.
Although saying all that, we were told to end the call if we were told we'd called a TPS number, despite it not covering it it's only courtesy if they'd asked not to receive marketing calls.
If a system were to be introduced that allowed people to opt out of receiving all unsolicited calls and mail shots from commercial businesses or research groups I would expect that there would be a very high take up percentage. Some people just do not like the thought of people or companies having or using their telephone numbers without their consent especially when they feel they have done everything they can to stop it from happening.
Quite rightly, and I'd sign up myself. I think this thread has strayed somewhat in that the point was "if you're cold called politely decline rather than abuse" rather than "cold calling is w00t".
I think that's very sad and unnecessary. There is at least an aim in my actions, and I explain that at the outset.
The trouble is Claire, many of us are of the mind that WE pay for our phone line for OUR benefit, not yours our your clients. If they want my views by phone then they should pay me for them.:)
I think that's very sad and unnecessary. There is at least an aim in my actions, and I explain that at the outset.
The trouble is Claire, many of us are of the mind that WE pay for our phone line for OUR benefit, not yours our your clients. If they want my views by phone then they should pay me for them.:)
Why not just ban phones then? It's a free world and there's nothing wrong with trying it, you could turn on ACR couldn't you? ;)
The trouble is Claire, many of us are of the mind that WE pay for our phone line for OUR benefit, not yours our your clients. If they want my views by phone then they should pay me for them.:)
I don't see how that follows. You aren't losing money by us calling you. And anyway as nffc said, the point of my original post was simply a request for manners when refusing to participate in a survey. No one is saying you should take part.
That's not the point. I have windows to look out at the world, should I get rid of them because sometimes people rudely peer in?
__________________
I don't see how that follows. You aren't losing money by us calling you. And anyway as nffc said, the point of my original post was simply a request for manners when refusing to participate in a survey. No one is saying you should take part.
I thought the debate had moved on to include other factors. :) I still stand by the fact that the phone on my desk is there for my convenience, not for market researchers to make money out of me - for them to call me and invade my privacy makes them rude - sorry.:erm:
To take the debate a little further (if this needs another thread then let me know). What people don't realise that their views are valuable, and make market researchers a lot of money.
If you actively seek to give your views you can make some real money. :D Not so long ago I made £50 by going to a hotel for 2 hours and telling Midland Mainline what I thought of their service. Better than giving your views away for free when you'd rather be tucking into that roast!;)
That's not the point. I have windows to look out at the world, should I get rid of them because sometimes people rudely peer in?
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I don't see how that follows. You aren't losing money by us calling you. And anyway as nffc said, the point of my original post was simply a request for manners when refusing to participate in a survey. No one is saying you should take part.
I thought the debate had moved on to include other factors. :) I still stand by the fact that the phone on my desk is there for my convenience, not for market researchers to make money out of me - for them to call me and invade my privacy makes them rude - sorry.:erm:
To take the debate a little further (if this needs another thread then let me know). What people don't realise that their views are valuable, and make market researchers a lot of money.
If you actively seek to give your views you can make some real money. :D Not so long ago I made £50 by going to a hotel for 2 hours and telling Midland Mainline what I thought of their service. Better than giving your views away for free when you'd rather be tucking into that roast!;)
1. Yes, you can shut your curtains if you don't want people to look in.
2. If they knew that it was invading your privacy then they probably wouldn't call, fact is quite a high proportion of people respond to these, more than you'd think, it's still reasonably successful.
3. Then if people were more keen to give their views there would be no gain in it. Thing is, people are sick of **** companies ignoring them so it appears most people think most companies would just use the complaint letters for bogroll... so people don't complain meaning the companies need to proxy out for opinion.
The way I see it, unsolicited calls are completely unnecessary to the consumer in 99% of situations and while I'd not tell someone to "f*ck off" on the phone, I will say "no thanks, don't call here again" and put the phone down on them as soon as I hear where they're calling from if I recognise it and think they're going to try and sell me something (normally badly as most of them a) can't pronounce my name and b) can barely speak english). If they do decide to call back expressly against my wishes then I'll just put the phone down somewhere and let them talk to thin air until they decide to hang up.
i work in a call centre but we don`t call out we get calls from the public and it`s my job to be friendly and polite, on the other hand if i get a cold call on my ex directory phone at home i`m friendly and polite telling them i`m not interested, what really ticks me off tho is when these callers will not take no for an answer and they deem it their right to finish off their written speech. I do not ask for these calls and they should comply with my request to not take the call further when i say i`m not interested.
1. Yes, you can shut your curtains if you don't want people to look in.
You say that people can use ACR to block a lot of these calls. Yes they can (although I have it on good authority that calls still get through some times). However, some people have friends and/or family whose numbers show up as anonymous (not all phone networks broadcast caller ID signals), so anyone using ACR wouldn't be able to accept calls from these people.
2. If they knew that it was invading your privacy then they probably wouldn't call, fact is quite a high proportion of people respond to these, more than you'd think, it's still reasonably successful.
Doubtful. It's logical that if you cold call someone in the evening, or at night, you probably *are* invading their privacy. Are you seriously suggesting that people doing cold calls don't realise this?
I don't know the proportion of people that respond to these surveys, but I will say that almost everyone I know hangs up, politely says "Not interested", is rude to the operator or gives false information.
3. Then if people were more keen to give their views there would be no gain in it. Thing is, people are sick of **** companies ignoring them so it appears most people think most companies would just use the complaint letters for bogroll... so people don't complain meaning the companies need to proxy out for opinion.
I have no objection to a company doing this, but, in my experience, most of the time, the company phoning to see if you are happy with your service is actually trying to sell you a competitor's service and bypass TPS.
Chimaera
18-09-2005, 18:59
I've been getting the 'Three' calls to my mobile even though my contract isn't up for another 6 months so goodness knows where they are getting their information form.
I have got ACR activated on my phone which has stopped a few of these calls, however the latest variation was yesterday, when I got a call to my home phone from T Mobile, again to get me to renew my 'nearly expired' O2 mobile contract with them. Paul informed them that I was not interested and they eventually rang off. When I dialled 1471 to find how the call had got though it said that the caller was 'not known'. I haven't got caller ID as ntl can't supply it at my address, so I don't know how to stop this latest variant of call.
1. Yes, you can shut your curtains if you don't want people to look in.
Again you've missed the point. Why should I be inconvenienced because someone abuses something I've paid for?
2. If they knew that it was invading your privacy then they probably wouldn't call, fact is quite a high proportion of people respond to these, more than you'd think, it's still reasonably successful.
Anyone with half a brain knows that most people have something to eat between 5 and 8 at night, calling hundreds of people between these hours is bound to incontinence many of them.
3. Then if people were more keen to give their views there would be no gain in it. Thing is, people are sick of **** companies ignoring them so it appears most people think most companies would just use the complaint letters for bogroll... so people don't complain meaning the companies need to proxy out for opinion.
Companys don't seem to take complaints on-board which is why people think this. Again the customer is inconvenienced because the company wants information from you - generally for free.
Anyone with half a brain knows that most people have something to eat between 5 and 8 at night, calling hundreds of people between these hours is bound to incontinence many of them.
Something on your mind their Shaun?? ;) Mind you incontinent customers would mean no time is convenient :p:
(I know BT call centers ramp down their outbound calls at certain times of the day as they know it's not a good idea to call when the soaps are on or if football is on. They still make a number of calls but it something like 1/4 of what they would at full speed.)
from your replies, it would indicate to me that if a market researcher (and I'm talking about a legitimate one) called you up, there exists the potential (my choice of word) for you to be rude to them (the right to which, you have said you reserve) for disturbing you, or phoning you when you have taken steps to see that it doesn't happen.
Yes, that "potential" does exist.
There again the potential exists that I could call you up and say "hey, how about becoming an atheist?" and you might say "sure, great idea...!" :D
The question I now ask is do you not accept that any such rudeness would be unwarranted (or misplaced) if a third party error was to blame for your phone number filtering through to that research company?
Sorry, but rephrasing your hypothetical question does not make it any less hypothetical :)
__________________
If I sign up to the TPS it does *NOT* mean that "I don't want people to phone me up selling stuff, but I don't mind if a market researcher calls me".
Yes it does.
Oh no it doesn't!
Just because market researchers are not covered by the TPS does *NOT* mean that I *want* to receive their calls and my signing up to the TPS is a pretty big clue that I do not want unsolicited calls *full stop*.
Any ethical organisation should consider that.
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NTL aren't involved at all.
Ok understood, my bad. Nothing to do with NTL. But what I meant was that you should take it up with the TPS and not with us, because as we have already stated, TPS does not cover market research, just marketing calls.
It is not NTL's responsibility. It is not the TPS' responsibility.
It is *your organisation* that is calling me, despite a clear indication that I do *not* want these calls.
Dancing around the rules does not obviate this point.
However if someone chooses to disrespect my wishes and call me when I have already indicated that I do *not* want to be called, I reserve the right to respond to them in any manner I see fit.
I still do not agree on this point, we have not disregarded your request not to be called because taking on TPS does not prevent market researchers from calling you.
And I still consider that to be "weaselling", so let's leave it here.
__________________
Unfortunately just by calling them you are causing them to feel as though their privacy/ free time is being invaded which then makes them feel they should get some form of payback.
Ridiculous and petty.
Welcome to Human Nature...!!!
__________________
You aren't losing money by us calling you.
Time is money.
You waste my time, you waste my money.
__________________
That's not the point. I have windows to look out at the world, should I get rid of them because sometimes people rudely peer in?
1. Yes, you can shut your curtains if you don't want people to look in.
I have net curtains, they stop people casually peering through my windows, but if you get right up close and use your hands to screen out excess light from outside you can still look in.
So does my having net curtains mean "I don't want people to look in through my windows unless they make a real effort to do so"...???
__________________
some people have friends and/or family whose numbers show up as anonymous (not all phone networks broadcast caller ID signals), so anyone using ACR wouldn't be able to accept calls from these people.
Exactly. A friend worked for a hospital at one time and, naturally, all outgoing numbers were blocked because they want all calls to go through the main switchboard.
Consequently when I had anonymous call blocking on my phone she couldn't get in touch unless she used her mobile.
fact is quite a high proportion of people respond to these, more than you'd think, it's still reasonably successful.
I don't know the proportion of people that respond to these surveys, but I will say that almost everyone I know hangs up, politely says "Not interested", is rude to the operator or gives false information.
And, of course, the "enough people respond to these things" is the same justification that spammers use to spread their unsolicited garbage around the world's inboxes! :grind:
Chrysalis
19-09-2005, 04:48
I don't understand how you can acknowlegde that is rude but still claim it to be the most polite method. How about "No thanks I'm not interested"?
I don't see the immorality of random number generation, and the problem with the method you have suggested is that there simply would not be enough people. Plus all those people would then be inundated with every single survey we do. Also, a very important aspect of market research is that we get a very broad sample of ages, sexes, and occupations. We simply wouldn't get this if we relied on your suggested method.
Also there are a lot of people out there who wouldn't go out of their way to sign up to such a service, and yet are willing to participate in one survey if we call them when we have a minute spare, and they like the sound of our voices!
I can totally understand this point of view, but as I have said, the issue should then be with the TPS and not with the caller.
You seem to agree with your company and think it is moral, you are free to feel that way but I think you will find the majority of people will disagree, to be frank I dont care if the TPS legally allows researchers to call, I have signed up to the TPS to stop unsolicited calls, just because a legal loophole exists it doesnt mean people are specifically saying ok we allow survey's it just means its a gap that hasnt been filled. Its a legal loophole nothing more.
I also dont give a rats **** if you are short on people to fill in these survey's you still haven't said which company you work for, why keep it secret? is it because it is marketing surverys? Why not post the same survey here on this forum and allow people to judge for themseves and fill in if they want to and then you have a batch of results to send back to your company. Why not post survery's in newspapers and magazines for people to fill in and send back again this will get you results. You asking why people are rude and you have been told its because their private time has been invaded and you yourself have been rude by ringing them up at this point people are already angry before they even answer. You dont like it then quit the job otherwise just accept it.
As for the person in the street I know exactly what will happen if I say no thanks, I will be chased down the street after the person knows I acknowledge her existance.
Sorry, but rephrasing your hypothetical question does not make it any less hypothetical :)
Nicely dodged ;)
I had a call in work already this morning to do a survey. She asked me if I wanted to take part in a survey. I only managed to get the not from not really out of my mouth before she hung up on me. Needless to say I wasn't offended in the slightest, just glad to get rid of her.
You seem to agree with your company and think it is moral, you are free to feel that way but I think you will find the majority of people will disagree, to be frank I dont care if the TPS legally allows researchers to call, I have signed up to the TPS to stop unsolicited calls, just because a legal loophole exists it doesnt mean people are specifically saying ok we allow survey's it just means its a gap that hasnt been filled. Its a legal loophole nothing more.
I also dont give a rats **** if you are short on people to fill in these survey's you still haven't said which company you work for, why keep it secret? is it because it is marketing surverys? Why not post the same survey here on this forum and allow people to judge for themseves and fill in if they want to and then you have a batch of results to send back to your company. Why not post survery's in newspapers and magazines for people to fill in and send back again this will get you results. You asking why people are rude and you have been told its because their private time has been invaded and you yourself have been rude by ringing them up at this point people are already angry before they even answer. You dont like it then quit the job otherwise just accept it.
Perhaps you should read the small print of what exactly a service covers before taking it on rather than assuming it will cover you for everything you want it to cover.
I am not willing to disclose what company I work for because I don't like to give away personal details on the internet. Simple as that.
You dont like it then quit the job otherwise just accept it
Thanks for this marvellous advice. I have already stated that I am trying to find work elsewhere and it is not that easy.
All I am asking for is that people are polite when they refuse to do the survey. Is that so hard? I would guess that according to the tone of your post, this may be a difficult task for you....
Unsolicited marketing or sales calls are irritating, asking people not to be irritated is a bit of a cheek, you knew the role you were taking on and also I have no doubt that it was explained to you exactly how most people would react to these calls, if you want to blame someone then blame yourself as we certainly never forced you into the job and I for one will not be told how to react to someone who's called MY number. The day you start paying my line rental is the day you can start criticising.
Unsolicited marketing or sales calls are irritating, asking people not to be irritated is a bit of a cheek, you knew the role you were taking on and also I have no doubt that it was explained to you exactly how most people would react to these calls, if you want to blame someone then blame yourself as we certainly never forced you into the job and I for one will not be told how to react to someone who's called MY number. The day you start paying my line rental is the day you can start criticising.
I do not work in sales or marketing. Perhaps you should re-read the thread.
Furthermore I am not asking people 'not to be irritated', I have already said I appreciate it can be annoying, I simply asked that people try and be civil when refusing the survey. Obviously that is a difficult task for some.
It's entirely possible to be irritated, yet stay polite..
It's entirely possible to be irritated, yet stay polite..
Hear hear.
I do not work in sales or marketing. Perhaps you should re-read the thread.
Furthermore I am not asking people 'not to be irritated', I have already said I appreciate it can be annoying, I simply asked that people try and be civil when refusing the survey. Obviously that is a difficult task for some.
Like I said, the day you start paying people's line rental for them is the day you can complain about how people legally use THEIR phone line in respect of unsolicited calls.
You also mentioned a survey, does that not come under "marketing"?
http://www.vigay.com/misc/coldcallers.html
Like I said, the day you start paying people's line rental for them is the day you can complain about how people legally use THEIR phone line in respect of unsolicited calls.
Listen to what I am trying to say. People have EVERY right to refuse the survey. I just recommend common decency when rejecting the call.
You also mentioned a survey, does that not come under "marketing"?
We are not marketing anything. We are conducting surveys. There is no emphasis whatsoever on promotion or sales.
Listen to what I am trying to say. People have EVERY right to refuse the survey. I just recommend common decency when rejecting the call.
We are not marketing anything. We are conducting surveys. There is no emphasis whatsoever on promotion or sales.
People also have EVERY right to put the phone down on you as and when they see fit, please re-read what I'VE said, who's fault is it that you're making cold calls to people? Ours? I think not.
Your survey may not have direct sales pitches but chances are (like most surveys) your results will end up going to a company to help increase their sales, perhaps you should start paying people to take the survey, afterall, why should our time be free when you're getting paid?
People also have EVERY right to put the phone down on you as and when they see fit, please re-read what I'VE said, who's fault is it that you're making cold calls to people? Ours? I think not.
I am not going to go back and forth on this issue with you. There is no 'fault' involved here. You may find it perfectly acceptable to slam the phone down on people, I don't think it costs anything to say 'no thanks.' End of story.
I am not going to go back and forth on this issue with you. There is no 'fault' involved here. You may find it perfectly acceptable to slam the phone down on people, I don't think it costs anything to say 'no thanks.' End of story.
Obviously I'm not the only person to find it acceptable otherwise you wouldn't have wasted time creating this thread.
i have an ex directory number and i deem it rude for callers to call me uninvited, whether it`s a cold call for marketing purposes or sales, i have a right to say no thanks. Why do you think it`s ok Claire to call people who so obviously don`t want your call if their number isn`t in the directory? i think the use of number generators should not be used and only numbers willing to take these calls should be.
Also as i said before i work in a call centre taking calls for traveline, (i have no problem stating the company i work for) and i take a lot of flack from irate callers, that`s my job, but at the end of the day that`s what i`m paid for. The same goes for you and in your line of work it goes with the territory.
i have an ex directory number and i deem it rude for callers to call me uninvited, whether it`s a cold call for marketing purposes or sales, i have a right to say no thanks. Why do you think it`s ok Claire to call people who so obviously don`t want your call if their number isn`t in the directory? i think the use of number generators should not be used and only numbers willing to take these calls should be.
Also as i said before i work in a call centre taking calls for traveline, (i have no problem stating the company i work for) and i take a lot of flack from irate callers, that`s my job, but at the end of the day that`s what i`m paid for. The same goes for you and in your line of work it goes with the territory.
But there's a huge difference in someone calling you and someone getting an unsolicited call, the caller has made time to call you whereas you can guarantee that they're not sitting at home waiting for someone to ask them to take a survey.
ian@huth
19-09-2005, 12:22
My mother has mobility problems which make it difficult at times to reach the telephone when it rings. She has a big button wired telephone as she cannot easily dial on a cordless phone.
She kept getting calls which when she answered found that there was nobody there. She always rings 1471 after calls which either she doesn't get to in time or if there is no reply when she picks the phone up. She thinks that if there is no reply that the caller has hung up just as she picked up the phone. When she dialled 1471 she did get the number that had called her and pressed 3 to call it back. It was always engaged though.
On one occasion she answered the call and there was someone there who wanted to do a survey with her. She politely refused and ended the call but rang 1471 to see what number had called. It was the same number that had been making the silent calls.
These silent calls put her through a lot of pain if she is not near the phone when it rings. They should be banned completely.
timewarrior2001
19-09-2005, 12:24
I don't see how that follows. You aren't losing money by us calling you. And anyway as nffc said, the point of my original post was simply a request for manners when refusing to participate in a survey. No one is saying you should take part.
The point is by registering with the TPS I am clearly stating I DO NOT WANT COLD CALLS. So to ignore that is invasion, of my privacy and my wishes. Any name on the TPS should NOT be contacted for any reason by a company that cold calls.
We have ACR, and occasionally we get calls, we are on the TPS and with the ACR we should not be getting these calls, that means companies are completely ignoring my wishes, and the representative of that company is the "face" of that company and knowing these people like I do, I will not find out who they are, who they work for and how to complain, so I will bitch and moan and be angry at the person that has bothered me.
I cant make it any more clear, when I am at home I DO NOT WANT COLD CALLS IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM.
My time is money, you get paid for asking silly questions that I dont want to answer, so I should receive a fee for the time you waste by ignoring my wishes NOT to be contacted and me having once again to say "I do not wish to take part in this survey or any further survey your company does, please remove me from your call list". And once again my woshes and insatruction are ignored, so the Xth time I get a call about surveys Its understandable my patience is waring very thin.
So while you wish for people to have a common curtesy to say No thanks, I wish for your employers ot have a comomn curtesy and not fecking call me.
It works both ways.
To make matters worse I get survey calls on my mobile, the only poeople with my mobile number are my family, work place and service provider.
Obviously I'm not the only person to find it acceptable otherwise you wouldn't have wasted time creating this thread.
No you're not the only person sadly. I also don't consider it a waste of time, and if you do perhaps you shouldn't waste your time posting on the thread.
i have an ex directory number and i deem it rude for callers to call me uninvited, whether it`s a cold call for marketing purposes or sales, i have a right to say no thanks.
Once again I am neither marketing nor selling, and I have stated throughout this thread that you have every right to say 'no thanks', and that in fact I wish more people would say 'no thanks' rather than being rude.
i take a lot of flack from irate callers, that`s my job, but at the end of the day that`s what i`m paid for. The same goes for you and in your line of work it goes with the territory.
Yeah, fully aware of that thank you. That does not mean I think it's ok.
__________________
My mother has mobility problems which make it difficult at times to reach the telephone when it rings. She has a big button wired telephone as she cannot easily dial on a cordless phone.
She kept getting calls which when she answered found that there was nobody there. She always rings 1471 after calls which either she doesn't get to in time or if there is no reply when she picks the phone up. She thinks that if there is no reply that the caller has hung up just as she picked up the phone. When she dialled 1471 she did get the number that had called her and pressed 3 to call it back. It was always engaged though.
On one occasion she answered the call and there was someone there who wanted to do a survey with her. She politely refused and ended the call but rang 1471 to see what number had called. It was the same number that had been making the silent calls.
These silent calls put her through a lot of pain if she is not near the phone when it rings. They should be banned completely.
I think that is really bad, and I definitely agree that silent calls should be banned. I don't know who makes them, and how or why, but I agree they should not be allowed.
__________________
So while you wish for people to have a common curtesy to say No thanks, I wish for your employers ot have a comomn curtesy and not fecking call me.
I rest my case. There is no need to swear. Learn some manners.
timewarrior2001
19-09-2005, 12:33
__________________
I think that is really bad, and I definitely agree that silent calls should be banned. I don't know who makes them, and how or why, but I agree they should not be allowed.
They are autodialers, and they ring out, when no agent can take the call you get a silent line.
They are autodialers, and they ring out, when no agent can take the call you get a silent line.
I absolutely agree that these should not be used - a silent call can be construed as a menacing call.
timewarrior2001
19-09-2005, 12:36
I rest my case. There is no need to swear. Learn some manners.
I have manners, but I used a term that actually isnt swearing.
If you read my entire post, you can see why myself and many others are irritated by cold callers, we cannot stop you, we can refuse, but wil be called again. So whats th epoint in refusing, we actually have little choice in the matter, we either do it and be plagued by calls or dont do it and be plagued by calls, WE cant win.
I work in a call centre clarie, I know what your getting at in some ways, but you have to appreciate that when caling people in their own home and many of these people have done all they can to stop these calls, you are going to get agitated and irritated people. Its not just about manners, its about wishes, you have yours and myself and many other have ours.
I have manners, but I used a term that actually isnt swearing.
No you didn't, you just changed the spelling so that it matches a way some people pronounce it.
If you read my entire post, you can see why myself and many others are irritated by cold callers, we cannot stop you, we can refuse, but wil be called again. So whats th epoint in refusing, we actually have little choice in the matter, we either do it and be plagued by calls or dont do it and be plagued by calls, WE cant win.
I will soon tire of saying that I can understand how annoying cold calls can be. I am tired of saying you have every right to refuse. This whole thread is just going round in circles. My point is that it does not cost much to say 'no thanks' instead of ranting at the person at the other end. If you do not agree then fine, let's both hope that your number never comes up on my list.
Obviously I'm not the only person to find it acceptable otherwise you wouldn't have wasted time creating this thread.No you're not the only person sadly. I also don't consider it a waste of time, and if you do perhaps you shouldn't waste your time posting on the thread.Ohhh, now I think we need a passing Mod to add a poll to this thread to see who is right... just how many Cable Forum members find cold calling (irrespective of whether it be for selling, market research, etc... purposes) to be acceptable?
But there's a huge difference in someone calling you and someone getting an unsolicited call, the caller has made time to call you whereas you can guarantee that they're not sitting at home waiting for someone to ask them to take a survey.
that`s the point i was trying to put across. people choose to call my call centre we don`t make calls to people. although i understand Claires point about rudeness, with the job she does it`s going to happen when she makes uninvited calls, sometimes in the evening which ticks people off even more.
Ohhh, now I think we need a passing Mod to add a poll to this thread to see who is right... just how many Cable Forum members find cold calling (irrespective of whether it be for selling, market research, etc... purposes) to be acceptable?
If you wish, but I think we all know what the result will be. 'Acceptable' has nothing to do with it really though, because the aim of the thread is not for me to try to persuade people that they should respond to my calls, nor that they should stop getting irritated by cold calling. It was just a plea for a bit of civility in dealing with the matter.
zing_deleted
19-09-2005, 12:47
But there's a huge difference in someone calling you and someone getting an unsolicited call, the caller has made time to call you whereas you can guarantee that they're not sitting at home waiting for someone to ask them to take a survey.
your right about the difference but the point still stands.If someone calls who you do not know and have not asked to call its your right to end the call at any point.If someone from a call centre calls me and does not like me ending the call before their "story" is finished then its tough,and if it has a negitive effect on them then maybe they should get a different job.
that`s the point i was trying to put across. people choose to call my call centre we don`t make calls to people. although i understand Claires point about rudeness, with the job she does it`s going to happen when she makes uninvited calls, sometimes in the evening which ticks people off even more.
Agreed, the thing that galls me is that unsolicited callers don't treat ME with any respect, they don't respect the fact that I might be eating my dinner, be on the toilet or doing something other than waiting for the phone to ring yet they harp on about "learning some manners", I think it's THEM that need to learn manners and quit calling people.
I have manners, but I used a term that actually isnt swearing.
No you didn't, you just changed the spelling so that it matches a way some people pronounce it.Actually, it's an Irish word... Have you ever watched any episode of Father Ted?
If you wish, but I think we all know what the result will be. 'Acceptable' has nothing to do with it really though, because the aim of the thread is not for me to try to persuade people that they should respond to my calls, nor that they should stop getting irritated by cold calling. It was just a plea for a bit of civility in dealing with the matter.
Well, if you can "plea for a bit of civility", can I "plea" for you to stop calling and irritating people?
zing_deleted
19-09-2005, 12:49
If you wish, but I think we all know what the result will be. 'Acceptable' has nothing to do with it really though, because the aim of the thread is not for me to try to persuade people that they should respond to my calls, nor that they should stop getting irritated by cold calling. It was just a plea for a bit of civility in dealing with the matter.
It would be civil for the caller to understand they are interfering in other peoples lives and if someone does not want to speak to you,you shoudl respect that and be civil and say thank you and goodbye.I think its wrong to expect people to sit and listen when they have no interest at all in what your saying or doing(not aiming at you in particular but anyone in said job)
Agreed, the thing that galls me is that unsolicited callers don't treat ME with any respect, they don't respect the fact that I might be eating my dinner, be on the toilet or doing something other than waiting for the phone to ring yet they harp on about "learning some manners", I think it's THEM that need to learn manners and quit calling people.
agreed, :tu:
zing_deleted
19-09-2005, 12:49
Well, if you can "plea for a bit of civility", can I "plea" for you to stop calling and irritating people?
agreed
By the way, anyone else getting this advert from Google Ads in this thread...?
stop all nuisance calls
stop unwanted nuisance calls get on the do not call list today :rofl:
ian@huth
19-09-2005, 12:53
I think that is really bad, and I definitely agree that silent calls should be banned. I don't know who makes them, and how or why, but I agree they should not be allowed.Autodiallers hunting for connections when there are no agents free to take the call.
But even the calls such as the ones that you make are a problem for people like my mother. Getting to the phone to answer it if she is not sat by the phone or in bed causes her a lot of pain. I registered her with TPS which has cut the number of calls down but not eliminated them completely.
In my view all calls from businesses should have CLID information provided and subscribing to TPS should mean no more cold calls from any business full stop.
zing_deleted
19-09-2005, 12:54
By the way, anyone else getting this advert from Google Ads in this thread...?
:rofl:
:rofl: also
By the way, anyone else getting this advert from Google Ads in this thread...?
:rofl:
:LOL: very relevant:rofl:
Agreed, the thing that galls me is that unsolicited callers don't treat ME with any respect, they don't respect the fact that I might be eating my dinner, be on the toilet or doing something other than waiting for the phone to ring yet they harp on about "learning some manners", I think it's THEM that need to learn manners and quit calling people.
It is their job. Which is why I suggest taking it up with the company concerned. And yes, yes, if we don't like it we should get other jobs. As I have said it is not that easy.
Actually, it's an Irish word... Have you ever watched any episode of Father Ted?
Oh come on now don't split hairs...
Well, if you can "plea for a bit of civility", can I "plea" for you to stop calling and irritating people?
By all means as long as you do it politely.
It would be civil for the caller to understand they are interfering in other peoples lives and if someone does not want to speak to you,you shoudl respect that and be civil and say thank you and goodbye.
Oh. My. God. How many times? Fine!!! Don't speak to me!!!!! I respect that right entirely!!!
In my view all calls from businesses should have CLID information provided and subscribing to TPS should mean no more cold calls from any business full stop.
I am inclined to agree with you and I am sorry for the problems your mother is suffering. It would make things a lot easier for everyone if the TPS covered market research.
When I get these calls, I am normally polite. What I say depends on how bothered I am to get the calls. However, I am only polite because generally in life I am a mug. I don't know why I should be nice to them. I fully agree with Bifta et al. with regards to this. Its a bloody cheek that you call people up, and not hope, not expect, but demand that they be nice to you.
Clarie, why are you so bothered? You work there to earn money, not to have fun or make friends over the telephone. If I worked in your position, I wouldn't give a monkey's what the other person says or did so long as I got paid.
Its a bloody cheek that you call people up, and not hope, not expect, but demand that they be nice to you.
I don't expect people to be nice. I am not asking to be invited round for tea and cakes, or to be added to their Christmas card list. I simply cannot see why it is so hard for people to be civil. On the main street where I live you can't work far without getting stopped to ask to donate money to charity, to buy something, or if you have had an accident in the last few years. I rarely stop and chat, but I am ALWAYS civil because I know what it's like to be in a job where you have to approach the public all day long.
Clarie, why are you so bothered? You work there to earn money, not to have fun or make friends over the telephone. If I worked in your position, I wouldn't give a monkey's what the other person says or did so long as I got paid.
A lot of time I am not bothered. However the day I started this thread I had just had a particularly bad shift. What really highlights the rude people are their opposites - the people who are as helpful as can be - and the old people who are grateful for a chat because they haven't spoken to anyone else all day long. The people who are rushed off their feet yet still have the decency to take a few seconds of their time to say 'sorry, i'm not interested', or 'i am too busy, goodbye.' Those people make the job a lot more pleasant and usually bearable.
Clarie, why are you so bothered? You work there to earn money, not to have fun or make friends over the telephone. If I worked in your position, I wouldn't give a monkey's what the other person says or did so long as I got paid.
exactly how i am within my job at traveline, i don`t take the calls personally, it`s a job.
I am inclined to agree with you and I am sorry for the problems your mother is suffering. It would make things a lot easier for everyone if the TPS covered market research.
Does your "market research" lead to any sort of post telephone conversation marketing or sales or will they categorically receive absolutely NO contact from your or any connected organisation after you've finished the call?
STONEISLAND
19-09-2005, 14:01
Does your "market research" lead to any sort of post telephone conversation marketing or sales or will they categorically receive absolutely NO contact from your or any connected organisation after you've finished the call?
would you like some preferential rates for your electricty.
would you like some preferential rates for your electricty.
One call you'll never get in Northern Ireland, NIE are the only people who can provide it over here.
How many more times do I have to say it?
TPS does not cover "proper" market research as it is not a sales or marketing call and so not under the auspices of the DMA, whose money subsidises the setup, maintenance and implementation of the TPS
Answered like a true politician.
Do you think for one minute that 99.9% of the people who sign up for TPS are thinking, 'well, I don't want any direct sales calls interrupting my precious free time, but true market research is ok, I don't mind wasting a few minutes on that'? Are you really so deluded as to think that anyone who has made the conscious effort to sign up with the TPS still wants to receive any kind of cold call?
Of course they aren't. Anyone who makes the effort to sign up to the TPS is doing so because they don't want to be phoned up by ANY annoying strangers representing any business.
'True' market research may not breach the letter of the TPS rules, but it sure as hell sticks up two fingers at the spirit of it. And you wonder why some people get upset when you call.
STONEISLAND
19-09-2005, 14:10
One call you'll never get in Northern Ireland, NIE are the only people who can provide it over here.
Gutted I was about to pitch you then. :p:
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Answered like a true politician.
Do people have the same view in commercial cold calling?
exactly how i am within my job at traveline, i don`t take the calls personally, it`s a job.What...? You mean there are people that live to work and don't work to live? :shrug: I figured we were all like that ;)
It's entirely possible to be irritated, yet stay polite..
True. I hide my irritation with people by saying nothing. Which is why, when I've got up to answer the phone whilst enjoying something on TV, or having dried the dishwater off my hands or washed off the cooking ingredients, I seldom listen to much more than 'Good evening, this is a courtesy call from ... ' before I hang up the phone without saying a word.
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Do people have the same view in commercial cold calling?
Commercial cold-calls are a thousand times more irritating because when you answer the phone at work you are a representative of your company. You have no choice but to listen to the pitch and then to be constructive in your telling them to sling it.
The only exception to this is the 'upgrade your handset' calls I get on my business mobile. We all know when these calls are coming because our numbers are all in the same range, so during the course of the morning you hear them all ringing one by one and an increasing number of people complaining and getting angry. Thus forewarned, I, like many others, simply hang up on these calls before the cold-caller has got more than a couple of words out.
What...? You mean there are people that live to work and don't work to live? :shrug: I figured we were all like that ;)
:LOL: i don`t know of any.... i work for the money, it`s a job, yeah it`s nice when people are polite, but so what if people are rude when they call? it takes all sorts.
STONEISLAND
19-09-2005, 14:17
True. I hide my irritation with people by saying nothing. Which is why, when I've got up to answer the phone whilst enjoying something on TV, or having dried the dishwater off my hands or washed off the cooking ingredients, I seldom listen to much more than 'Good evening, this is a courtesy call from ... ' before I hang up the phone without saying a word.
People that do that I tend to call back and say we where cut of and continue.
If they dont pick the phone up, they get chucked back in pot for someone eles to call.
Allways say look not intrested, say goodbye, then put the phone down. ;)
People that do that I tend to call back and say we where cut of and continue.
If they dont pick the phone up, they get chucked back in pot for someone eles to call.
Allways say look not intrested, say goodbye, then put the phone down. ;)
Thankfully you're in the minority - I've never suffered repeat callbacks like that. Do you get a thrill out of annoying people by phoning them up when it's obvious they don't want to talk to you? Nuisance calling is a specific criminal offence you know. ;)
STONEISLAND
19-09-2005, 14:22
People that do that I tend to call back and say we where cut of and continue.
If they dont pick the phone up, they get chucked back in pot for someone eles to call.
Allways say look not intrested, say goodbye, then put the phone down. ;)
Look guys at the end of the day it keeps tens of thousands of people in work and not on the doll. It works for companies as a cheaper way off getting new business.
If you don't like it be polite and say please take me of your list.
I promise if your polite you wont get called by that company again.
As I said earlier, I always try to stay polite.. Doesn't always work.. There is the odd time I am not though. One particular period sticks in mind. A few years back (before TPS), BAC Windows phoned me regularly (at least once a day). After a month of telling them I was not interested, I threatened them with court action.
Does your "market research" lead to any sort of post telephone conversation marketing or sales or will they categorically receive absolutely NO contact from your or any connected organisation after you've finished the call?
There is no need to insert market research into inverted commas. That IS what we do.
Occasioanally at the end of the survey people may be asked if they would be willing to be contacted again for further discussion, and those who agree may then be asked for their address and/or name. It is a yes/no question.
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Look guys at the end of the day it keeps tens of thousands of people in work and not on the doll. It works for companies as a cheaper way off getting new business.
If you don't like it be polite and say please take me of your list.
Good point :tu:
I promise if your polite you wont get called by that company again.Doesn't work that way with some companies, mate. Trust me... the voice of experience :(
As for commercial cold callers, they really get on my nerves. I'm in charge of making decisions as to what products/vendors we go with, so they target me.
Another pet hate of mine is recruitment specialists. In a previous role, I used to get hassled by them. They just don't seem to understand the meaning of the word No! :(
ps - great avatar, skunk4u ;)
STONEISLAND
19-09-2005, 14:37
With utilities telesale.
Just say inclusive with rent they soon leave you alone.
So lets stop telesales and have a massive recruitment drive.
Belive me where I work alone thats 3'000 jobs gone.
Gareth thanks
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Good point :tu:
Well the thing is it works. People and there are a lot buy off the phone.
Well the thing is it works. People and there are a lot buy off the phone.
Yes and in my case people DO participate in surveys. Otherwise the company would have gone bust a long time ago.
Yes and in my case people DO participate in surveys. Otherwise the company would have gone bust a long time ago.
Claire, the problem with this is that what you're effectively saying is 'the ends justify the means'. Sure, you get your data, because some people will participate when cold called, but you annoy a huge number of people who *don't* want your calls in the process.
STONEISLAND
19-09-2005, 14:45
Claire, the problem with this is that what you're effectively saying is 'the ends justify the means'. Sure, you get your data, because some people will participate when cold called, but you annoy a huge number of people who *don't* want your calls in the process.
= TPS
Its what it's there for.
Are you TPS? Do you still get the calls?
I got a call this afternoon, she had a nice accent so I talked to her, she said I had taken part in a survey on toner and was going to send me a free gift as thanks. Fair enough so we had a chat and were coming to the end of the conversation when she said..
"Will I put your name down on the cartridge"
"Er what cartridge"
"The sample I'm going to send you"
"IS this a free sample"
"No it costs £300, I'll mark it for your attention"
And then she hung up!
Claire, the problem with this is that what you're effectively saying is 'the ends justify the means'. Sure, you get your data, because some people will participate when cold called, but you annoy a huge number of people who *don't* want your calls in the process.
Well maybe it's time to roll with the punches. Cold calling is now a fact of life. I admit I don't think it's a very ethical way of doing things, but now it is here, and here it will stay unless people start dealing with it in the correct manner. I know there are those who have signed up to the TPS etc, and I agree that it is annoying that this does not cover market research calls, so what I suggest is that those who are not happy take it up with the TPS provider.
Furthermore, I will repeat my point that there is nothing to be gained from shouting abuse down the phone at the caller. If you don't believe that it is justifiable that someone calls you in the evening, complain to the company.
The people who are calling you to try and sell something, or to market something, or to ask you to participate in a survey are just doing their job. Go to the local job centre and you will see what percentage of jobs available these days are in call centres. It is not enjoyable work, in my opinion, but it pays the bills. Perhaps instead of having a go at the person at the other end of the phone, you could try to remember that they are just doing their job, just as you do yours.
Finally I have said repeatedly that I know cold calls are irritating. I know there are disadvantes to the system - particularly for people such as ian@huth's mother. I know all of this and I sympathise. My original point still stands - refuse me! Just please don't take it upon yourself to take out your frustration against the whole system of cold calling on the unfortunate soul who had your number on his list for the evening!
STONEISLAND
19-09-2005, 14:50
I got a call this afternoon, she had a nice accent so I talked to her, she said I had taken part in a survey on toner and was going to send me a free gift as thanks. Fair enough so we had a chat and were coming to the end of the conversation when she said..
"Will I put your name down on the cartridge"
"Er what cartridge"
"The sample I'm going to send you"
"IS this a free sample"
"No it costs £300, I'll mark it for your attention"
And then she hung up!
Assumptive close. But a bit too assumptive that :erm:
= TPS
Its what it's there for.
Are you TPS? Do you still get the calls?
Yes we are. And yes, we sometimes still get calls. And every time we have challenged a caller, we get an embarrassed cough, a rustling of paper, and an 'oh ... er ... yes ... so you are' before they hang up. So clearly there are companies out there that don't give a rat's anus for the TPS and will call you to see if they can get away with it.
Of course, there is also the 'market research' callers who obey the letter of the rules (namely, they can call me because the TPS doesn't cover 'research' so I'm still a legitimate target) rather than the spirit of the rules (namely, people who don't sign up with the TPS, don't want cold calls, *full stop*.)
STONEISLAND
19-09-2005, 14:53
Yes we are. And yes, we sometimes still get calls. And every time we have challenged a caller, we get an embarrassed cough, a rustling of paper, and an 'oh ... er ... yes ... so you are' before they hang up. So clearly there are companies out there that don't give a rat's anus for the TPS and will call you to see if they can get away with it.
Of course, there is also the 'market research' callers who obey the letter of the rules (namely, they can call me because the TPS doesn't cover 'research' so I'm still a legitimate target) rather than the spirit of the rules (namely, people who don't sign up with the TPS, don't want cold calls, *full stop*.)
Totaly agree if you are TPS and if you do still get the calls, take a note of what company it is and let TPS know.
The copamy that calls is breaking the law.
There is no need to insert market research into inverted commas. That IS what we do.
Occasioanally at the end of the survey people may be asked if they would be willing to be contacted again for further discussion, and those who agree may then be asked for their address and/or name. It is a yes/no question.
Further discussion for what though, does the eventual result, e.g. the next call if they agree to it possibly result in some form of sale?
Further discussion for what though, does the eventual result, e.g. the next call if they agree to it possibly result in some form of sale?
I have never worked on the follow up before but knowing the nature of the companies / organisations who are our clients, that is extremely unlikely. The large percentage of our clients are public organisations and other such bodies whose work is not commercial. We do not work with 'companies' per se, like for example Coca Cola or Cadbury's, just to name examples. We work more with boards and councils, and when we do work with commercial companies it is not to increase sales amongst individuals, but more to provide a broader overview of shopping habits etc..
I<snip> when we do work with commercial companies it is not to increase sales amongst individuals, but more to provide a broader overview of shopping habits etc..
The thing is, no matter how far removed your job is from direct selling, sooner or later the information you gather will be used to inform a sales/marketing decision within one of your client companies. It may not be direct marketing, but marketing it is nonetheless.
The other beef I have with this is that your client companies are paying for the information your employer gives them - information I am expected to provide free of charge, or to decline with a smile on my face. I'd be more inclined to be co-operative if I was getting paid what my information is worth. :)
What's your opening patter?
What's your opening patter?
Hi my name is XXXX I am calling from XXX in XXX, we are currently conducting a survey on XXX it will take about X minutes to complete, could you possibly spare the time to participate please?
The thing is, no matter how far removed your job is from direct selling, sooner or later the information you gather will be used to inform a sales/marketing decision within one of your client companies. It may not be direct marketing, but marketing it is nonetheless.
I don't follow the relevance to the debate. It is not direct marketing or sales that I do. If it is marketing, then it is very far removed from what I do.
The other beef I have with this is that your client companies are paying for the information your employer gives them - information I am expected to provide free of charge, or to decline with a smile on my face. I'd be more inclined to be co-operative if I was getting paid what my information is worth. :)
I still don't see why you can't say 'no thanks' and move on. That doesn't even require a smile.
I still don't see why you can't say 'no thanks' and move on. That doesn't even require a smile.
Then you don't have children, and you have never watched anything on TV that you didn't want disturbing from, or cooked anything whose timing was important, and you've never been so tired after a day's work that you don't want to say or do anything that you don't have to.
I am not ever going to complete a telephone survey, or buy anything from a cold-caller. It doesn't matter who they are or where they're from. I have already done my best to indicate this by signing up to the TPS. So far as I am concerned, my participation in the TPS is adequate notice that I do not want any cold calls, regardless of what the letter of the rules might say. So, if I hang up by the time you've managed to say 'Hi, my name's Claire', then I have saved both you and I a few wasted seconds. In that time my son may have fallen in the half-run bath, my un-nappied daughter may have sprayed wee all over the lounge carpet, the sausages could have burned or Liverpool might have scored.
As a cold caller, I have no feelings towards you whatsoever, positive or negative. I just never asked you to make my phone ring, so I feel no obligation towards you ('you' plural, that is) by hanging it up. As far as I'm concerned it's no different to walking past someone on a street corner with a clipboard whilst refusing to make eye contact. And I do that a lot because I go into the shopping centre during my lunchbreak, where there are a lot of people with clipboards who don't seem to appreciate that a lunch break is precious personal time!
Hi my name is XXXX I am calling from XXX in XXX, we are currently conducting a survey on XXX it will take about X minutes to complete, could you possibly spare the time to participate please?
That's a fairly typical call that I'd just hang up on as soon as I hear the word "conducting a survey" you probably need something a little different to every other market research company. Also, think of it this way, if you were sitting at home eating your dinner and let's say you'd left your back door open and a woman wandered into your dining room with a clipboard and asked you to participate in a survey, I'm sure you'd have a few choice words for her, I know I and most other people would. Well, the same can be said for unsolicited telephone calls, the only choice I have is to take the phone off the hook or screen every call, which I don't want to do .. I don't want my privacy invaded by market researchers and if I EVER feel the need to complete a survey then I'll (right after getting a lobotomy) wander up the town and talk to one of the clipboard laden nutters wandering around.
Then you don't have children, and you have never watched anything on TV that you didn't want disturbing from, or cooked anything whose timing was important, and you've never been so tired after a day's work that you don't want to say or do anything that you don't have to.
I have done all of those things besides having children and it still doesn't stop me from being polite.
In that time my son may have fallen in the half-run bath, my un-nappied daughter may have sprayed wee all over the lounge carpet, the sausages could have burned or Liverpool might have scored.
I see what you mean but I would never leave doing any of those things to answer the telephone - if it's not a cold caller it could be anyone else and the same things could happen. It doesn't matter who's calling!
Also, think of it this way, if you were sitting at home eating your dinner and let's say you'd left your back door open and a woman wandered into your dining room with a clipboard and asked you to participate in a survey, I'm sure you'd have a few choice words for her, I know I and most other people would.
That is an entirely different scenario! You can't compare an unwanted telephone call with illegal entry!
if I EVER feel the need to complete a survey then I'll (right after getting a lobotomy) wander up the town and talk to one of the clipboard laden nutters wandering around.
They're not 'nutters' they are people making an honest living.
STONEISLAND
19-09-2005, 15:38
my un-nappied daughter may have sprayed wee all over the lounge carpet
Oh the joys and I have all this to look forward to. November the 24th and cannot wait.
Oh the joys and I have all this to look forward to. November the 24th and cannot wait.
Congrats!!
They're not 'nutters' they are people making an honest living.
I dunno, the one from Amnesty Internation that accosts me every so often in Greenwich is slightly scary, even if he isn't mad. BTW, I am already a member of Amnesty International.
Actually, wandering a bit off topic here, but the other day at work I had an interesting call.. A woman phoned up offering my company cut price web hosting. Slight problem with that. Because we are a University, and connected to the internet via JANET, we are (apparently) required to host our own servers and cannot use external companies. Also, while I am sure many ISPs could handle our 2000+ students updating their websites, I am sure it is cheaper for us to host the sites ourselves.
Back to the subject: I still think it is a good idea to *try* and be polite. After all, it doesn't take a lot longer to say "Sorry, not interested" and hang up than it does to hang up.
Back to the subject: I still think it is a good idea to *try* and be polite. After all, it doesn't take a lot longer to say "Sorry, not interested" and hang up than it does to hang up.
I really appreciate this point of view, and it is what I have been, apparently unsuccessfully trying to say for 13 pages of this thread. I am sure it is people like you who I refer to when I say that I am really grateful to people who can take the 2 seconds of time out of their day to say 'no thanks'.
Back to the subject: I still think it is a good idea to *try* and be polite. After all, it doesn't take a lot longer to say "Sorry, not interested" and hang up than it does to hang up.
IMO, it's ruder to cut across someone mid-speech and say 'not interested' than it is to say nothing and hang up. And if I don't want to talk to someone, I don't want to sit and listen to an opening picth of indeterminate length when I know that, regardless of what they say, I'm not going to take the conversation any further.
IMO, it's ruder to cut across someone mid-speech and say 'not interested' than it is to say nothing and hang up. And if I don't want to talk to someone, I don't want to sit and listen to an opening picth of indeterminate length when I know that, regardless of what they say, I'm not going to take the conversation any further.
As someone on 'the other side, believe me, it is ruder to just hang up than to say 'not interested'. It is so dismissive to just hang up.
As someone on 'the other side, believe me, it is ruder to just hang up than to say 'not interested'. It is so dismissive to just hang up.
And did it not occur to you that it's MEANT to be dismissive? If there's some slim chance that it might prevent people like yourself ringing again then it's most definately worth it.
And did it not occur to you that it's MEANT to be dismissive? If there's some slim chance that it might prevent people like yourself ringing again then it's most definately worth it.
the problem here is these companies don`t take you hanging up on them as a request to stop calling, they usually call several times, i think "no i`m not interested thanks" is the best response, but it doesn`t always stop further calls
zing_deleted
19-09-2005, 16:12
As someone on 'the other side, believe me, it is ruder to just hang up than to say 'not interested'. It is so dismissive to just hang up.
Surely its better for a call to end so you can get on to the next one anyway? If everyone listened to the blag before saying no thanks you would hardly get any work done.You can double productivity by having people hang up quick.
IE:- you " wanna do a survey"
me" no"
next call
or as you want it
you " hello im blar blar blar -------------------------endless speal------------------------------------------------------------------- would you take part"
me " no"
next call
surely the first instance is better???
the problem here is these companies don`t take you hanging up on them as a request to stop calling, they usually call several times, i think "no i`m not interested thanks" is the best response, but it doesn`t always stop further calls
Let's be honest, there's nothing that'll stop them ringing, take Tele2, I've tried being polite, I've tried being rude, I've hung up on them, I've put them on hold yet they still call every other day.
Let's be honest, there's nothing that'll stop them ringing, take Tele2, I've tried being polite, I've tried being rude, I've hung up on them, I've put them on hold yet they still call every other day.
So if you`ve tried the polite way then i guess being rude is worth a go? It wont work, but it gets rid of a bit of stress these callers caused in the first place. ;)
So if you`ve tried the polite way then i guess being rude is worth a go? It wont work, but it gets rid of a bit of stress these callers caused in the first place. ;)
I'm not verbally rude, I just put the phone down in case I'm tempted to tell them to go forth and fornicate with themselves.
So if you`ve tried the polite way then i guess being rude is worth a go? It wont work, but it gets rid of a bit of stress these callers caused in the first place. ;)
I think that might be a litle OTT...
Let's be honest, there's nothing that'll stop them ringing, take Tele2, I've tried being polite, I've tried being rude, I've hung up on them, I've put them on hold yet they still call every other day.
But I imagine it's not the same people calling day in day out - or even the same company. So if you're rude to one, that won't stop others calling.
IE:- you " wanna do a survey"
me" no"
next call
or as you want it
you " hello im blar blar blar -------------------------endless speal------------------------------------------------------------------- would you take part"
me " no"
next call
surely the first instance is better???
No. No one would agree if I just said 'wanna do a survey?'.
And did it not occur to you that it's MEANT to be dismissive? If there's some slim chance that it might prevent people like yourself ringing again then it's most definately worth it.
Calm down. You're making it sound like we are the devil's minions.
Calm down. You're making it sound like we are the devil's minions.
On the social acceptance ladder you're heading down that way ;)
zing_deleted
19-09-2005, 17:01
I think that might be a litle OTT...
But I imagine it's not the same people calling day in day out - or even the same company. So if you're rude to one, that won't stop others calling.
No. No one would agree if I just said 'wanna do a survey?'.
Calm down. You're making it sound like we are the devil's minions.
At the end of the day you have no right to expect anything from people on the other end of your cold calling.You are disturbing said people and they have a right to get rid of you anyway they seem fit
At the end of the day you have no right to expect anything from people on the other end of your cold calling.You are disturbing said people and they have a right to get rid of you anyway they seem fit
Well obviously you are not alone in thinking this way, I am just glad that there are also people out there who agree that there is no need to be impolite.
zing_deleted
19-09-2005, 17:06
Well obviously you are not alone in thinking this way, I am just glad that there are also people out there who agree that there is no need to be impolite.
clarie I need to ask you a question. As a taker of surveys are you really surprised by peoples attitude?? Did you really expect them to be sympathetic towards you? If you answer yes to either of these questions IMO you are a tad nieve.(no offence ment here)
A rep from my company will call and thank you for taking this survey :LOL:
I think that might be a litle OTT....
i see nothing OTT about being rude after politely saying you`re not interested then getting further calls and being stressed by it.:shrug:
zing_deleted
19-09-2005, 17:08
i see nothing OTT about being rude after politely saying you`re not interested then getting further calls and being stressed by it.:shrug:
I have to agree.IMO its irrelevent thats its a different caller it should go on record that your not interest and no further hassle from that point. Would only need a simple data entry and after all thats what these callers are doing
Just remember this .It could be a lot worse you could work for customer services somewhere ;)
Well obviously you are not alone in thinking this way, I am just glad that there are also people out there who agree that there is no need to be impolite.
I fail to see why you get so upset because someone hangs up on you. Sure you may think its impolite, I think calling my number without permission is impolite.
I`d like to clarify that i`m not against call centres, i work in one and call centres provide work for many people, i just don`t like their tactics in getting the required sales/market research or surveys.
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I fail to see why you get so upset because someone hangs up on you. Sure you may think its impolite, I think calling my number without permission is impolite.
:tu: agreed
I fail to see why you get so upset because someone hangs up on you. Sure you may think its impolite, I think calling my number without permission is impolite.
Who said I was upset? I think it's impolite, doesn't mean I am upset.
clarie I need to ask you a question. As a taker of surveys are you really surprised by peoples attitude?? Did you really expect them to be sympathetic towards you? If you answer yes to either of these questions IMO you are a tad nieve.(no offence ment here)
And no I am not surprised either.
For the last time (yeah right - this thread is just going round in circles), I just cannot see why people can't be polite.
Have I said it enough times now?
And yes, I know you all disagree. I know you all think it is impolite of companies to cold call people. I know you all think you have every right to speak to me 'how you see fit'. Frankly, this thread has just proved to me that my original plea will not be heard. Shame. Ah well, let's all move on and get back to work.
People that do that I tend to call back and say we where cut of and continue.
If they dont pick the phone up, they get chucked back in pot for someone eles to call.
And that's the main annoying reason why people hate cold calling, because they call back again and again!! Saying no thank's doesn't always work.
Allways say look not intrested, say goodbye, then put the phone down. ;)
Somehow i'm left thinking my number will go back in a pot to be called again until i give in and take the bloody survey!
Well maybe it's time to roll with the punches. Cold calling is now a fact of life.
And people hanging up the phone seems to be as well. If i have to accept a nuisance call then maybe your lot can accept i'm going to hang up!!! :p:
Chrysalis
19-09-2005, 18:58
I am inclined to agree with you and I am sorry for the problems your mother is suffering. It would make things a lot easier for everyone if the TPS covered market research.
Would it also make things easier for everyone if researchers were moral and didn't call people on the TPS list?
zing_deleted
19-09-2005, 18:59
And yes, I know you all disagree. I know you all think it is impolite of companies to cold call people. I know you all think you have every right to speak to me 'how you see fit'. Frankly, this thread has just proved to me that my original plea will not be heard. Shame. Ah well, let's all move on and get back to work.
Least you get paid for it.Its a job its not really ment to be fun :)
Well maybe it's time to roll with the punches. Cold calling is now a fact of life..
so is people not liking cold calling maybe you should roll with the punches and not us
Would it also make things easier for everyone if researchers were moral and didn't call people on the TPS list?
I would really rather you didn't cast aspursions on my morality. If that's all the same to you. I am not provided with a TPS list. I am not involved in compiling the lists. If we were breaking the law, then by all means, you could pass judgement on us. We aren't just getting round the lettering of the TPS.
Under Government legislation introduced on 1st May 1999 and replaced on 11th December 2003 by the Privacy and Electronic Communications (EC Directive) Regulations 2003, it is unlawful to make unsolicited direct marketing calls to individuals who have indicated that they do not want to receive such calls.
Market research is an entirely different ballgame. However if you think this to be a legal loophole then take it up with the TPS.
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so is people not liking cold calling maybe you should roll with the punches and not us
I know people don't like it. I think you are not reading my posts closely enough. I KNOW PEOPLE DON'T LIKE IT. You shouting down the phone at me isn't going to stop it though. Just be polite. That's all I ask. And if you can't bring yourself to do that then don't. I never believed I would be able to change the habits of a lifetime.
Chrysalis
19-09-2005, 19:15
Here is another thought, the last time I got rang I did NOT hang up but asked the guy what company he worked for and his name and stated I am asking so can report him as I am on the TPS, he hung up on me.
So given 2 choices which do you prefer F*** *** or a hangup.
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I would really rather you didn't cast aspursions on my morality. If that's all the same to you. I am not provided with a TPS list. I am not involved in compiling the lists. If we were breaking the law, then by all means, you could pass judgement on us. We aren't just getting round the lettering of the TPS.
The assumptions were made following your comments on the TPS, I have not heard you apologise saying its wrong to ring TPS lines instead you push the blame on TPS instead of your company.
The assumptions were made following your comments on the TPS, I have not heard you apologise saying its wrong to ring TPS lines instead you push the blame on TPS instead of your company.
Would you like to know why? It is because the TPS does not cover market research. As I showed in the quotation above, it covers direct marketing calls, I agree it is a shame that it does not cover market research calls. But I am not going to apologise for that because I am not responsible for what the TPS does and does not cover. So if you have a problem with that then take it up with the TPS. The TPS is in fact irrelevant to this discussion because I have stated from the start that I do not work in marketing or sales.
And for the nth time neither am I involved in compiling the lists. I am just a monkey on the phone. When I come across someone who is on the TPS, I apologise out of courtesy and end the call. But I also explain, for their information, that the TPS (all together now) "does not cover market research."
I wish it were different but it is not.
Here is another thought, the last time I got rang I did NOT hang up but asked the guy what company he worked for and his name and stated I am asking so can report him as I am on the TPS, he hung up on me.
So given 2 choices which do you prefer F*** *** or a hangup.
Had that been me I would have happily given you my information. I suspect he was working in telesales. It is a shame that some call centre agents let the rest of us down.
homealone
19-09-2005, 19:38
Claire, I admire the patience you have shown in putting your point :tu:
I had a brief encounter with calling people at home - in my case trying to get appointments for a 'financial review' with existing bank customers, after an introductory letter from the branch - afaik, also exempt under current TPS rules. It was a really bad experience, I hated it - there were some nice people, but some awfully rude ones, as well (epecially the ones who pretended to make an appointment & then arranged to be out :( ). I'm glad I don't have to do that, anymore.
timewarrior2001
19-09-2005, 19:56
The main problem here is that Clarie things its impolite to just hang up, she thinks people should be polite and not hurl abuse down the phone.
I can agree with the noit hurling abuse down the phone, but a simple "No I'm not bloody interested" is firm, not particularly bad langhuage and is probably a common answer.
I dont think its impolite to hang up, after all I dont know you, i didnt ask to be bothered, I'm not interested and your still getting paid.
I dont Always hold doors open for others, I dont always let people out at junctions, I dont always say please, I usually do say thanks or cheers though.
I dont want called at home and as I said before, the reason the abuse gets hurled down the phone is because the person calling is the immediate representative of the company they work for, and as a result, they are the ones distrubing you and they get the backlash. Its also why your teamleader No longer does the calls.
It may be considered impolite if I swore at you and told you exactly in medical terms where you may place your survey. However its in the territory, it may cost nothing to be polite, but it also costs nothing to observe peoples wishes and not cold call them at home. Its all swings and roundabouts.
Who said I was upset? I think it's impolite, doesn't mean I am upset.
But don't you think calling someone without their permission is impolite?
But don't you think calling someone without their permission is impolite?
I have been over this a lot already. Not really. However I would consider it impolite if, KNOWING they did NOT wish me to call, I called them again. Hence if someone informs me they are on the TPS I will not call them. This information is not made readily available to me because I work in market research, not in sales.
Do you obtain peoples' permission every time you call them?
I have been over this a lot already. Not really. However I would consider it impolite if, KNOWING they did NOT wish me to call, I called them again. Hence if someone informs me they are on the TPS I will not call them. This information is not made readily available to me because I work in market research, not in sales.
Do you obtain peoples' permission every time you call them?
But that is too late as you have already called them without their permission...
Do you obtain peoples' permission every time you call them?
I don't type random numbers into my phone hoping to be connected to someone if thats what you mean.
If someone has given me their phone number then I assume that means they want me to call. So yes they have given me permission.
I don't type random numbers into my phone hoping to be connected to someone if thats what you mean.
The difference is - your not payed to call random numbers. This is Clarie's job.
If someone has given me their phone number then I assume that means they want me to call. So yes they have given me permission.
By what your saying there - phone numbers listed in books and via directory enquiries would prove to be a pointless means of obtaining a phone number because one doesn't have permission to call. Now if they were ex-directory you would have a point.
The difference is - your not payed to call random numbers. This is Clarie's job.
By what your saying there - phone numbers listed in books and via directory inquiries would prove to be a pointless means of obtaining a phone number because one doesn't have permission to call. Now if they were ex-directory you would have a point.
By being in the phone book you are making your number available hence giving permission. I'm ex-directory, on the TPS yet still get calls.
dilli-theclaw
19-09-2005, 22:30
Its a job its not really ment to be fun :)
MMMmmm - No comment ;)
In other news - someone called the missus today while I was at my 'not fun' job, said they wanted to do a survery - and promptly offered her double glazing at the end of the call. My missus told the caller we are in a council house - they lost interest pretty quickly for some reason then.
In other news - someone called the missus today while I was at my 'not fun' job, said they wanted to do a survery - and promptly offered her double glazing at the end of the call.
I think one of the main conditions on which most of our respondants agree to do our surveys is that we assure them that we are not seliing anything - and we mean it.
dilli-theclaw
19-09-2005, 22:45
I think one of the main conditions on which most of our respondants agree to do our surveys is that we assure them that we are not seliing anything - and we mean it. Which is fine.
In any case it's only her that gets calls like this now, as I don't pick up unless I know who it is now.
I'm going to start phoning back with my own survey
how many people do you call a day?
what percentage of the people are willing to take part ?
do you get miffed with people like me when you are trying to work ?
sorry we lost connection so i phoned you back :mad:
I'm going to start phoning back with my own survey
how many people do you call a day?
what percentage of the people are willing to take part ?
do you get miffed with people like me when you are trying to work ?
sorry we lost connection so i phoned you back :mad:
They withold number so you won't be able to.
timewarrior2001
19-09-2005, 23:15
I'm going to start phoning back with my own survey
how many people do you call a day?
what percentage of the people are willing to take part ?
do you get miffed with people like me when you are trying to work ?
sorry we lost connection so i phoned you back :mad:
Aye they dont like it up em you know :D
Aye they dont like it up em you know :D
Permission to speak Captain TW:D:p:
I'm going to start phoning back with my own survey
how many people do you call a day?
what percentage of the people are willing to take part ?
do you get miffed with people like me when you are trying to work ?
sorry we lost connection so i phoned you back
Bring it on! Just remember you won't be getting paid for it like I do ;)
They withold number so you won't be able to.
I have those barred ;)
I'm going to start phoning back with my own survey
Just make sure you aren't ringing abroad! LOL
Bring it on! Just remember you won't be getting paid for it like I do ;)
True, but he will enjoy it, and get the full support of the members when he posts about it here :D
sir_drinks_alot
20-09-2005, 01:31
Call centres are Kate bush you don’t hear anything for ages when you finally do you can’t understand what the hell they are talking about. :cool:
Call centres are Kate bush you donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t hear anything for ages when you finally do you canââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t understand what the hell they are talking about. :cool:
I don't get it?
In fact, that's a feckin' good idea - the next time I get one of these calls, irrespective of whether it's selling or just for market research (which, incidentally, by virtue of its name, means it's related to selling... why 'research' the 'market' if it's not for a sales-oriented goal?) I'm gonna interrupt the person (after all, they interrupted me first) and ask them for their home phone number so that I can call them at some unknown and unrequested time, and ask them questions about something that they've never requested... or maybe I'll ask them some questions I have to answer for my job, making sure they don't get paid (but that I do of course) for their time... and if they refuse to give me their home number then I'll be justified in just hanging up on them :D
sir_drinks_alot
20-09-2005, 01:42
I don't get it?
Think about it martin :tu: tho i Guess it only works on people who actually know who Kate bush is. :disturbd:
In fact, that's a feckin' good idea - the next time I get one of these calls, irrespective of whether it's selling or just for market research (which, incidentally, by virtue of its name, means it's related to selling... why 'research' the 'market' if it's not for a sales-oriented goal?) I'm gonna interrupt the person (after all, they interrupted me first) and ask them for their home phone number so that I can call them at some unknown and unrequested time, and ask them questions about something that they've never requested... or maybe I'll ask them some questions I have to answer for my job, making sure they don't get paid (but that I do of course) for their time... and if they refuse to give me their home number then I'll be justified in just hanging up on them :D
I can just imagine that in a "Quid Pro Quo" Hanibal Lecter sort of way! LMAO
Think about it martin :tu: tho i Guess it only works on people who actually know who Kate bush is. :disturbd:
I know who Kate Bush is and i still don't get it!!
sir_drinks_alot
20-09-2005, 01:49
I can just imagine that in a "Quid Pro Quo" Hanibal Lecter sort of way! LMAO
I know who Kate Bush is and i still don't get it!!
Never mind it Take way to long to explain.
Never mind it Take way to long to explain.
Hmmmm send me a PM when you have a spare hour then!
sir_drinks_alot
20-09-2005, 01:58
Hmmmm send me a PM when you have a spare hour then!
Ok :D if you had got the joke i was going to do other bit about Kate bush working in a Call centre. :disturbd:
Ok :D if you had got the joke i was going to do other bit about Kate bush working in a Call centre. :disturbd:
Your giving me headache now! :erm:
sir_drinks_alot
20-09-2005, 02:03
Your giving me headache now! :erm:
Am going to stop posting in this thead now. :)
Kate Bush...? Hmm, did anyone else have a thing for Kate Bush, or was it just me? Despite her wailing like a banshee, I used to think she was alright. Maybe it was the leotard
Kate Bush...? Hmm, did anyone else have a thing for Kate Bush, or was it just me? Despite her wailing like a banshee, I used to think she was alright. Maybe it was the leotard
Oh yes!! I always found her eyes very hypnotic!
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