View Full Version : "Bloke in the Pub" says "Stick with ntl"
slowcoach
16-09-2005, 17:19
Well the "Bloke in the Pub" is now out of hospital, new liver running well! Lemonade all round bartender.
He thanks everyone for the Get Well cards. ;)
NEWS from the ntl Waste Baskets:
He tells me that the reason there has been minor problems of late, nationwide, is due to the massive updating of the infrastructure which has been going on, all work so far has gone really well with minimum inconvenience to current customers.
Due to the rapidly improving financial position of ntl the major shareholders have given ntl the green light to kick ar$e.
During the course of next year, won't be long now folks, ntl will offer 2 new speeds, 25Mbs and 50Mbs. :Yikes: :Yikes:
At the moment it is not known if the new speeds are in addition to the 10Mbs tiers, but rumour has it that there will be just 2 speeds, 25Mbs for the casual surfer and 50Mbs for the power user, but we will have to wait and see.
Pricing of whatever tiers will be based on the speed + amount of data transferred, with competitive prices to suit all customers needs.
Have a nice weekend.
etccarmageddon
16-09-2005, 17:37
of course they'll offer 25meg as they have to in order to pee on the LLU ADSL operators parades. Bloody useless though for most of as as servers we connect to dont support more than 2meg! nice news though and I suspect upstream bandwidth is where people now have concerns about.
Haha, gotta love the BitP :D
But, holy ****, 25mb and 50mb is ridiculous and amazing at the same time. How one would deliver it over existing infrastructure beats my knowledge but you are giving the idea that this looks to be for residential customers? I am amazed...
of course they'll offer 25meg as they have to in order to pee on the LLU ADSL operators parades.
Especially as ADSL's speeds are wholly dependent on distance to the exchange, so even as more exchanges get added, you'd be lucky to get anywhere near 24mpbs. NTL should be able to give you that consistently, wherever you live, due to fibre optics rather than copper.
50meg eh? Blimey. that's 6.10 megabytes (not megabits) a second true throughput.
Hans Gruber
16-09-2005, 17:47
And apparently the 50mbit connection will have the upstream increased... to 350k :angel:
Honestly - who needs that !? If so many people have 25meg internet, wont that take its toll on web hosts? Even so 25 meg would be amazing. Will they have to update much of the infrastructure? Or will it just be a matter of changing the config files?
And apparently the 50mbit connection will have the upstream increased... to 350k :angel:
LOLOLOLOL:D
..and a 30gig cap? :erm:
What's that..... about 5 minutes use :D
..and a 30gig cap? :erm:
What's that..... about 5 minutes use :D
about 84 mins :) And if you go buy the old daily cap of 1 gig/day, then 2.8 mins :)
DocDutch
16-09-2005, 18:42
And apparently the 50mbit connection will have the upstream increased... to 350k :angel:
sad to say but it might be true :O nahh with this kinda connection and as far as I know the speeds of Copper are near unlimited just depends on the network itself.
I hope they would say like with the 3 meg and 2 meg lines that upload will be 5mb on the 50mb line.....on the 25 would be something like 2.5mb
now that would be serious fun :) :) :)
The upload will need to remain roughly 10% of the download bandwidth to prevent ACK packets (google it) from saturating the connection and effectively throttling the download capacity.
The upload will need to remain roughly 10% of the download bandwidth to prevent ACK packets (google it) from saturating the connection and effectively throttling the download capacity.
If that was true than how are telewest gonna do 10mbit down with 384 up?:confused:
If it was 10% then they wud have to do 1mbit upload on it right?
If that was true than how are telewest gonna do 10mbit down with 384 up?:confused:
If it was 10% then they wud have to do 1mbit upload on it right?What you (and the people going on about the caps and "you will use it in 5 minutes") keep forgetting, or overlooking, is that it doesn't make a blind bit of difference if you have a 10M/25M/50M or a 1GB connection - downloads will only be as fast as the overall connection speed. If the far end server is on a 2MB connection then that's all you will get (and then only if you are the only person downloading).
In fact, the one time this won't be true is if the file already resides on the ntl proxy you have been routed through - then it will serve you up the file from its cache, and since it's on the ntl network, you should get it much faster (score 1 for the proxies ;))
If that was true than how are telewest gonna do 10mbit down with 384 up?:confused:
If it was 10% then they wud have to do 1mbit upload on it right?What you (and the people going on about the caps and "you will use it in 5 minutes") keep forgetting, or overlooking, is that it doesn't make a blind bit of difference if you have a 10M/25M/50M or a 1GB connection - downloads will only be as fast as the overall connection speed. If the far end server is on a 2MB connection then that's all you will get (and then only if you are the only person downloading).
True. Each connection on the internet is like a chain, and, like a chain, is only as strong (or fast in this case) as the weakest (or slowest) link.
In fact, the one time this won't be true is if the file already resides on the ntl proxy you have been routed through - then it will serve you up the file from its cache, and since it's on the ntl network, you should get it much faster (score 1 for the proxies ;))
Assuming the proxies are correctly configured and not malfunctioning... :D
It seems like they are just doing it to keep up!
What you (and the people going on about the caps and "you will use it in 5 minutes") keep forgetting, or overlooking, is that it doesn't make a blind bit of difference if you have a 10M/25M/50M or a 1GB connection - downloads will only be as fast as the overall connection speed. If the far end server is on a 2MB connection then that's all you will get (and then only if you are the only person downloading).
In fact, the one time this won't be true is if the file already resides on the ntl proxy you have been routed through - then it will serve you up the file from its cache, and since it's on the ntl network, you should get it much faster (score 1 for the proxies ;))
When did i say anythin about the cap? I was talkin about the upload speed m8 lol
When did i say anythin about the cap? I was talkin about the upload speed m8 lol
he says you then in brackets the people on about caps :)
slowcoach
16-09-2005, 21:33
With 50Mbs someone is not going to be downloading from one server, they are going to be downloading 10 Linux distro's from 10 different servers at the same time, so the upload speed is going to have to be enough to cope, otherwise it will have to be advertised as "Up to 50Mbs", not got the same ring to it somehow, has it.
Then there is the family of six, all downloading, yes, we are going have to demand that ntl make the upload speed 10Mbs at the very minimum. :D
On the workfront positive side, ntl is going to have to increase the number of staff in the "Sending letters out" dept. due to everyone going over the monthly cap on an hourly basis. :erm:
Ignition
16-09-2005, 21:51
During the course of next year, won't be long now folks, ntl will offer 2 new speeds, 25Mbs and 50Mbs. :Yikes: :Yikes:
At the moment it is not known if the new speeds are in addition to the 10Mbs tiers, but rumour has it that there will be just 2 speeds, 25Mbs for the casual surfer and 50Mbs for the power user, but we will have to wait and see.
Pricing of whatever tiers will be based on the speed + amount of data transferred, with competitive prices to suit all customers needs.
Have a nice weekend.
*Falls over laughing in an hysterical fit of amusement.
50Mb/s my ****, the technology doesn't even exist in a completed form to achieve that yet with traditional cable infrastructure. There is exactly one way to do it with current technology which involves investment that makes these upgrades seem like chump change and involves fundamental infrastructure changes.
Some other stuff there that I know isn't true but thanks for the amusement anyway, obviously that liver isn't metabolising the alcohol as well as the previous one did.
this is 2 part message from a game forum today.
new packages for 2006
bronze package 10mb down/480 up
silver package 25mb/2mb
gold package 50mb/4mb ( new modems required, and may be early 2007 before its rolled out completely)
will be different charge for all packages + premium on top for your chosen download limit
from what ive heard unlimited on 50mb would be £100 month.
500gig would be £50-70
------------------------------------------------------
response below to someone`s message about upgrading from 3mb
-----------------------------------------------------------
the lowest line will be 10mb bro..... thats the slowest speed they gonna offer.
if ur on the gold package now, u will be getting letter soon asking you if you wish take the options of download limits etc, your speed will be 10mb b4 octobers out.
at moment price will be same as gold 37.99 for 10mb but with 75gig monthly limit.
story im hearing is its not gonna be inforced like it is now, unless u take the ****. at moment that taking the **** standard depends how many others are on ntl in ur area. but the trigger for letters is 150gig a month(i do 250+ but im only person on ntl within 4miles, got my very own green box all too my self.lol)
when 2mb upgrades to 10mb, 3mb will go to 25mb etc its rolling program. the 1mb lines will be 10mb by end of 2006/7 the prices will be same now..
bronze 9.99~17.99
silver 24.99
gold 37.99
this is 2 part message from a game forum today.
new packages for 2006
bronze package 10mb down/480 up
silver package 25mb/2mb
gold package 50mb/4mb ( new modems required, and may be early 2007 before its rolled out completely)
will be different charge for all packages + premium on top for your chosen download limit
from what ive heard unlimited on 50mb would be £100 month.
500gig would be £50-70
------------------------------------------------------
response below to someone`s message about upgrading from 3mb
-----------------------------------------------------------
the lowest line will be 10mb bro..... thats the slowest speed they gonna offer.
if ur on the gold package now, u will be getting letter soon asking you if you wish take the options of download limits etc, your speed will be 10mb b4 octobers out.
at moment price will be same as gold 37.99 for 10mb but with 75gig monthly limit.
story im hearing is its not gonna be inforced like it is now, unless u take the ****. at moment that taking the **** standard depends how many others are on ntl in ur area. but the trigger for letters is 150gig a month(i do 250+ but im only person on ntl within 4miles, got my very own green box all too my self.lol)
when 2mb upgrades to 10mb, 3mb will go to 25mb etc its rolling program. the 1mb lines will be 10mb by end of 2006/7 the prices will be same now..
bronze 9.99~17.99
silver 24.99
gold 37.99
I REALLY hope that all this is true :D but i really doubt it is lol
Its not the elusive 'xbox man' csr again is it :erm:
Its not the elusive 'xbox man' csr again is it :erm:
Well so far we have 'the man in the pub' and now the 'man on something unspecified but chances are its not entirely legal'
this is 2 part message from a game forum today.
new packages for 2006
bronze package 10mb down/480 up
silver package 25mb/2mb
gold package 50mb/4mb ( new modems required, and may be early 2007 before its rolled out completely)
will be different charge for all packages + premium on top for your chosen download limit
from what ive heard unlimited on 50mb would be £100 month.
500gig would be £50-70
------------------------------------------------------
response below to someone`s message about upgrading from 3mb
-----------------------------------------------------------
the lowest line will be 10mb bro..... thats the slowest speed they gonna offer.
if ur on the gold package now, u will be getting letter soon asking you if you wish take the options of download limits etc, your speed will be 10mb b4 octobers out.
at moment price will be same as gold 37.99 for 10mb but with 75gig monthly limit.
story im hearing is its not gonna be inforced like it is now, unless u take the ****. at moment that taking the **** standard depends how many others are on ntl in ur area. but the trigger for letters is 150gig a month(i do 250+ but im only person on ntl within 4miles, got my very own green box all too my self.lol)
when 2mb upgrades to 10mb, 3mb will go to 25mb etc its rolling program. the 1mb lines will be 10mb by end of 2006/7 the prices will be same now..
bronze 9.99~17.99
silver 24.99
gold 37.99
And here was me thinking today was going to be boring. Then along came 2 very good bits of fantasy that just cheered me up not end.
At the moment i cannot stop doing this ------->:rofl: Sorry but you lot that write this fiction should do something worth while with your talent and write a book or 2.
Here's my prediction Someone is going to have egg on his face and i know it ain't me :LOL:
Old chinese proverb:
Man with egg on face has chicken head
Can a passing mod rename this thread, "Man in the pub" says "hic hic"
Chrysalis
17-09-2005, 04:35
I dont think this is true somehow :)
etccarmageddon
17-09-2005, 09:19
latest rumour from another forum is the tiers will be increased to 6meg, 8meg and 10meg on 5th October!
(thats megabits not megabytes folks!)
Ignition
17-09-2005, 10:12
The upload will need to remain roughly 10% of the download bandwidth to prevent ACK packets (google it) from saturating the connection and effectively throttling the download capacity.
Nah about 2% is quite adequate dude.
Oh and last I heard the 2005/6 packages are not yet finallised so seems unlike that the 2006/7 ones would be. :)
cookie_365
17-09-2005, 11:56
I can now exclusively reveal that:
1 Mbs will be upgraded to surprisingly fast
2 Mbs will be upgraded to amazingly fast
3 Mbs will be upgraded to astoundingly fast
The upload rates will be:
surprisingly fast: many many many bits per second
amazingly fast: lots and lots of bits per second
astoundingly fast: loads and loads of bits per second
And the cap will be:
surprisingly fast: lots of stuff
amazingly fast: heaps of stuff
astoundingly fast: loads of stuff
Prices of these amazing services to TBA ;)
Graham M
17-09-2005, 12:47
Most webhosts have at least 1 155MBit connection if theyre anything to speak of, thats 4 users downloading at full pelt to max that line out :shocking:
Chrysalis
17-09-2005, 13:32
Most webhosts have at least 1 155MBit connection if theyre anything to speak of, thats 4 users downloading at full pelt to max that line out :shocking:
If its your typical webserver it will either be on a 10mbit port or a 100mbit port.
Graham M
17-09-2005, 14:03
Yeah true, i was talking about the backbone however, if that couldnt handle it, how could the server's NIC port.
handyman
17-09-2005, 14:11
Most webhosts have at least 1 155MBit connection if theyre anything to speak of, thats 4 users downloading at full pelt to max that line out :shocking:
Not really because if its serving webpages then it will serve the page in a nano second then the user will view the page for a minute or so allowing many other connections to be made.
Ignition
18-09-2005, 11:49
True. Each connection on the internet is like a chain, and, like a chain, is only as strong (or fast in this case) as the weakest (or slowest) link.
Very noticeable from my new employer where I've had as quick as 7.7MB/s but most struggle to give over 1.1MB/s (10Mbit), bit of a contrast btw to ntl where I had a phat 10Mbit half-duplex desktop connection and was warned along with the rest of company not to abuse the massive bandwidth *cough* the office had, elite eh? ;)
Proxy hit rate is only going to be 20 - 30% and if not a proxy hit they'll have to download it and will be as subject to off-network issues as a direct connection.
ian@huth
18-09-2005, 11:53
Very noticeable from my new employer where I've had as quick as 7.7MB/s but most struggle to give over 1.1MB/s (10Mbit), bit of a contrast btw to ntl where I had a phat 10Mbit half-duplex desktop connection and was warned along with the rest of company not to abuse the massive bandwidth *cough* the office had, elite eh? ;)
Proxy hit rate is only going to be 20 - 30% and if not a proxy hit they'll have to download it and will be as subject to off-network issues as a direct connection.
Who would your new employer be ? ;)
JeLLyMaN
18-09-2005, 11:57
What you (and the people going on about the caps and "you will use it in 5 minutes") keep forgetting, or overlooking, is that it doesn't make a blind bit of difference if you have a 10M/25M/50M or a 1GB connection - downloads will only be as fast as the overall connection speed. If the far end server is on a 2MB connection then that's all you will get (and then only if you are the only person downloading).
In fact, the one time this won't be true is if the file already resides on the ntl proxy you have been routed through - then it will serve you up the file from its cache, and since it's on the ntl network, you should get it much faster (score 1 for the proxies ;))
If where your downloading from have a half decent upload(which all good servers have) it should be easily achiveable to download at ~1.2mb/s(10mbit).
ian@huth
18-09-2005, 12:04
Haha, gotta love the BitP :D
But, holy ****, 25mb and 50mb is ridiculous and amazing at the same time. How one would deliver it over existing infrastructure beats my knowledge but you are giving the idea that this looks to be for residential customers? I am amazed...The main bits of the infrastructure are already in place. That is the bits that would take the longest time to install. Some expensive extra kit would be required as well as new customer modems.
The main bits of the infrastructure are already in place. That is the bits that would take the longest time to install. Some expensive extra kit would be required as well as new customer modems.
Trust me "this is not COMING SOON:D". A lot of extra kit would be required before this could be done. I have not heard one peep about this untill the other day when there was a new Public House & Other Forum fiction section added to this thread. :LOL:.
ian@huth
18-09-2005, 12:26
What you (and the people going on about the caps and "you will use it in 5 minutes") keep forgetting, or overlooking, is that it doesn't make a blind bit of difference if you have a 10M/25M/50M or a 1GB connection - downloads will only be as fast as the overall connection speed. If the far end server is on a 2MB connection then that's all you will get (and then only if you are the only person downloading).
In fact, the one time this won't be true is if the file already resides on the ntl proxy you have been routed through - then it will serve you up the file from its cache, and since it's on the ntl network, you should get it much faster (score 1 for the proxies ;))I think that you have to look at what speeds like 50 mbps would be used for. It won't be for browsing websites, email or downloading warez.
We will shortly be moving to High Definition TV and the only company that has showed its hand is Sky with a HDTV service expected to start in the first half of 2006. How will the cablocos compete with that?
Bandwidth for DTV is said to be limited on cable particularly with Analogue channels still being broadcast. They could stop analogue transmission well ahead of the 2012 expected cut-off moving existing analogue customers to digital. Sky did this some years back and haven't suffered as a result.
NTL could use a 25 or 50 mbps broadband service for transmission of HDTV content. They could introduce a new HD STB that caters for these HD transmissions by connection to your HDTV as well as providing broadband internet access. This would have to cater for standard TV transmissions as well as HD for many years until HD is the standard. It would also have to have PVR capabilities and multiple tuners in order to be playing on the same field as Sky+ HDTV.
Technology exists to do things this way, the question being does the cash?
Trust me "this is not COMING SOON:D". A lot of extra kit would be required before this could be done. I have not heard one peep about this untill the other day when there was a new Public House & Other Forum fiction section added to this thread. :LOL:.
NTL have been upgrading the network constantly over the last year or so to put these things in place and be able to cope with it, 2007 is quite far away in technology terms, by which time the UK will be still lagging behind whilst places like Hong Kong have local 1gbps and Australia getting 50mbps in the next year
Even the US and other places already have 100mb+ lines, mostly over inferior infrastructure to NTL
What would be cool is if NTL invested in sticking Ethernet Routers in the green boxes and kick all other broadband providers in the ass!
handyman
18-09-2005, 15:20
Why stick routers in place its ethernet over coax at the moment anyway?
And as for australia they will be well fast for domestic connections and internal p2p but they will have naff all speed on international traffic as australia has poor peering connections due its location.
This is true, you should try requesting a .co.uk page from there, it takes a good 0-15 seconds to get a response.
Coaxial ethernet has limits on speed, if you reaad about hong kongs internal infrastructure they installed cisco routers in buildings and boxes so everyhome will have internal 1gbps access both ways.
Ignition
18-09-2005, 16:32
Why stick routers in place its ethernet over coax at the moment anyway?
No it's not dude.
__________________
There are two ways this can be done, one is through ethernet over coax which will require installation of new equipment throughout the country's access networks and will make the mass of newly installed uBRs redundant.
The other way is to use ADSL2+ line bonded or VDSL, again requiring extensive installation of new access layer equipment and making the existing DOCSIS (not ethernet over coax) infrastructure redundant.
The technology mentioned in the press releases as being potentially able to deliver 25 - 50Mbit is DOCSIS 3, which is at the moment not ratified, and will require the changing out of EVERY MODEM ON THE NETWORK. This is NOT a technology ready for deployment at this time.
So enough, there's nothing even on the drawing board about 25Mbit services yet, man in pub regurgitating what was said in a press release as being potential new products and giving it an entirely unrealistic timescale.
Graham M
18-09-2005, 16:32
Not really because if its serving webpages then it will serve the page in a nano second then the user will view the page for a minute or so allowing many other connections to be made.
If its just Web Pages and a few images, yes. However if it's all rich media, video, music, animations, etc. then the line will get tied up, and with lightning fast lines everyone will be demanding rich content at high speeds.
handyman
18-09-2005, 17:03
No it's not dude.
My mistake.
Has ntls business ethernet-ethernet in mind
Alot of webservers often have a speed cap per connection or some form of limiting/shaping dependant on content meaning that the effect of a few users with ultra fast connections dont start saturating the service for other users... then again download accelerators can get away with this through multiple threads in which the response would be to limit per IP.
This should be moved to humour :D
ntl appear to have done something, pages are loading at the snap of a finger, it isn't just me or a few sites, I wouldn't have noticed or commented on it if it was so apparent and different. Still on proxies, still 3mb.
Chrysalis
19-09-2005, 04:57
If where your downloading from have a half decent upload(which all good servers have) it should be easily achiveable to download at ~1.2mb/s(10mbit).
10mbit/sec in a single transfer will be quite rare, forget it from usa for a start, I only see 750kB from new york which is right on the entry to usa and if I go further in then its normall 500kB per thread or 250kB if cogent.
Around europe its more possible but then you might only be accessing a 10mbit server.
__________________
The main bits of the infrastructure are already in place. That is the bits that would take the longest time to install. Some expensive extra kit would be required as well as new customer modems.
Internally I beleive you are talking about, I dont think NTL got the peering capacity to handle that kind of traffic.
if this is true NTL bb would be able to transfer data faster than most peoples wireless lans :Yikes:
(due to overheads 54mbit on a 54g lan is impossible, mine usally tops out at around 10 - 15mbits :Yikes: , That is ofcourse on internal transfers the internet connection isn't that fast...)
Ignition
19-09-2005, 09:14
My mistake.
Has ntls business ethernet-ethernet in mind
That's done over fibre to premises metro ethernet, doesn't traverse the coax network at any point.
etccarmageddon
19-09-2005, 11:40
all these high speeds sound great but I suspect they're useless to the average punter or to put it another way, they'll make no difference - as the sites we access wont support it (at the moment). perhaps NTL are counting on this as their unofficial 'contention' method - ie. give us 10-25meg connections but they are limited/contended by the simple fact the sites we connect to only connect at 2meg.
Ignition
19-09-2005, 12:09
all these high speeds sound great but I suspect they're useless to the average punter or to put it another way, they'll make no difference - as the sites we access wont support it (at the moment). perhaps NTL are counting on this as their unofficial 'contention' method - ie. give us 10-25meg connections but they are limited/contended by the simple fact the sites we connect to only connect at 2meg.
Not really these high speeds just aren't planned at the moment so not really an issue.
A lot of sites are on 10 or 100Mbit connections, not many are hosted on 2Mbit leased lines, and those that are you aren't going to be downloading files from :)
Vlad_Dracul
19-09-2005, 18:44
This constant notional increase in speed is just a smokescreen. They really arent offering us much extra. What I really want and what i would be happy with is my existing 1mb connection reduced in price. I dont need anything faster than that.
Chrysalis
19-09-2005, 19:18
They can be very dentrimental as demon isp users have discovered, demon rolled out a mass upgrade from 512kbit to 2mbit and users went from a steady 512kbit connection to below 100kbit in the evenings.
Ignition
19-09-2005, 21:53
This constant notional increase in speed is just a smokescreen. They really arent offering us much extra. What I really want and what i would be happy with is my existing 1mb connection reduced in price. I dont need anything faster than that.
There are certain fixed costs associated with supplying each and every connection regardless of speed, so there's a limit to how low the prices can go!
etccarmageddon
19-09-2005, 23:15
£9.99 to be exact!
timewarrior2001
19-09-2005, 23:16
Does this mean I can download me porn faster......I mean work faster. :D
slowcoach
25-09-2005, 11:52
To all the disbelievers and "Bloke in the Pub" knockers please read this http://www.ispreview.co.uk/cgi-bin/news/viewnews.cgi?id=EEkZVuAVputhUaQfeW
and then just remember that what TeleWest does today ntl does tomorrow, and also remember that you only get the ground breaking news first from the "Bloke in the Pub".
oh ye of little faith.
To all the disbelievers and "Bloke in the Pub" knockers please read this http://www.ispreview.co.uk/cgi-bin/news/viewnews.cgi?id=EEkZVuAVputhUaQfeW
and then just remember that what TeleWest does today ntl does tomorrow, and also remember that you only get the ground breaking news first from the "Bloke in the Pub".
oh ye of little faith.
Sounds like another "bloke in the pub" where is the official Telewest press release?
To all the disbelievers and "Bloke in the Pub" knockers please read this http://www.ispreview.co.uk/cgi-bin/news/viewnews.cgi?id=EEkZVuAVputhUaQfeW
and then just remember that what TeleWest does today ntl does tomorrow, and also remember that you only get the ground breaking news first from the "Bloke in the Pub".
oh ye of little faith.
Just make sure guys when you read this, That you read the znet story completely then make up your mind on how long this will take. This entails a complete change of software, ubr cards, requires that there be no or little analogue as the extra bandwidth will come from this area. In other words complete upgrade of the complete system :Yikes: and the turning off of the analogue system and upgrade of any customers still on analogue to digital. One other point ---- the DOCSIS3 standard is no ratified anywhere yet and has never been rolled out by anyone on a live network.
Hans Gruber
25-09-2005, 12:05
Doesn't sound like too much more work than switching from ADSL to ADSL2+. Analogue will be switched off around that time anyway.
Doesn't sound like too much more work than switching from ADSL to ADSL2+. Analogue will be switched off around that time anyway.
And i take it you have a good idea of the network and all its systems and components ? BTW Telewest are only quoting London by 2006 ?
slowcoach
25-09-2005, 12:07
Just make sure guys when you read this, That you read the znet story completely then make up your mind on how long this will take. This entails a complete change of modems, software, ubr cards, requires that there be no or little analogue as the extra bandwidth will come from this area. In other words complete upgrade of the complete system :Yikes: .
I guess you had better prepare yourself for some serious overtime ;), don't let the "Bloke in the Pub" down Bill C.:nono:
I guess you had better prepare yourself for some serious overtime ;), don't let the "Bloke in the Pub" down Bill C.:nono:
1 i work for NTL not Telewest.
2 Have you seen that Telewest are only talking about London by 2006. There network in London is small compared with some of there areas
3 when i see Ntl announce this then i will start to think of overtime :).
The bit about there 10 meg service makes for interesting reading. Scotland first. Then London in the new year. Followed by the rest of the country over the next 12 months :Yikes: .
slowcoach
25-09-2005, 12:26
1 i work for NTL not Telewest.
I think we all know that you are a main part of the ntl foundations. :angel:
2 Have you seen that Telewest are only talking about London by 2006. There network in London is small ?.
Big trees from little acorns?
3 when i see Ntl announce this then i will start to think of overtime :).
I don't think you will have to wait too long for the "official" announcement, that is if you don't really know already. ;)
Hans Gruber
25-09-2005, 12:28
And i take it you have a good idea of the network and all its systems and components ? BTW Telewest are only quoting London by 2006 ?
ADSL2+ has been rolled out in London first, it would be quite a shocker if they rolled out the whole country on the same day.
ADSL2+ has been rolled out in London first, it would be quite a shocker if they rolled out the whole country on the same day.
:LOL:
And Pigs will fly. My exchange is not ready for ADSL2+ yet and its only 5 days to October which is the day its supposed to happen ?. So i think that will not happen. Every exchange in the country on the same day. Never going to happen, Do you realise how many exchanges you are talking about.
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I don't think you will have to wait too long for the "official" announcement, that is if you don't really know already. ;)
My point about this is that Customers should not get there hopes up that this is just around the corner it's NOT. It will come i am sure but it needs a lot of overtime :LOL: and upgrades to the network and systems before this can be seen in the wild. The DOCSIS3 standard is not ratified anywhere yet so correct me if i am wrong but there is noway that they would use the DOCSIS3 standard till it is. NTL have been shot down for releasing info to early this is just the same but from Telewest instead and you can bet the Telewest lovers will say what a good thing it is and how forward thinking they are to release this now a year before it might be available therefor giving people pleanty of time to go out a buy a 100 meg card :LOL:
Hans Gruber
25-09-2005, 13:28
:LOL:
And Pigs will fly. My exchange is not ready for ADSL2+ yet and its only 5 days to October which is the day its supposed to happen ?. So i think that will not happen. Every exchange in the country on the same day. Never going to happen, Do you realise how many exchanges you are talking about.
I'm not quite sure what your point is? Maybe I should have said London is in the process of being rolled out first. And I'm aware the whole country won't be rolled out in one day, hence why I posted as such.
ADSL2+ has been rolled out in London first, it would be quite a shocker if they rolled out the whole country on the same day.
So which part does not say whole country ?. I take that post as you trying to hint they might do the whole country on the same day which will never happen.
Hans Gruber
25-09-2005, 13:49
So which part does not say whole country ?. I take that post as you trying to hint they might do the whole country on the same day which will never happen.
How does "it would be quite a shocker if they rolled out the whole country on the same day." imply I think it would/should happen in 1 day?
he said 'it would be quite a shocker if they rolled out the whole country on the same day.'
I think the clue may be in the 'it would be quite a shocker'
How does "it would be quite a shocker if they rolled out the whole country on the same day." imply I think it would/should happen in 1 day?
In that case how is it that everyone seems to think that NTL can do it. Just read the posts where users complain because they dont have 10 meg yet.
Hans Gruber
25-09-2005, 13:55
In that case how is it that everyone seems to think that NTL can do it. Just read the posts where users complain because they dont have 10 meg yet.
You can't base replies to people on what others have said, everyone here is an individual and has an individual opinion.
Anyone else here feel they can trust Bill's word over that of the "bloke in the pub"? :D
(No offence intended to BITP, it's just that Bill is very rarely wrong about this sort of thing, in fact I can't remember a time when he got it wrong :disturbd: )
homealone
25-09-2005, 15:53
Anyone else here feel they can trust Bill's word over that of the "bloke in the pub"? :D
(No offence intended to BITP, it's just that Bill is very rarely wrong about this sort of thing, in fact I can't remember a time when he got it wrong :disturbd: )
well given that Bill is basing his opinion on his experience as an NTL employee, albeit filtered by a non-disclosure agreement, I would believe him every time.
Plus having seen the piccies from the LAN party, I would be loth to argue with him, about anything ;) :)
Anyone else here feel they can trust Bill's word over that of the "bloke in the pub"? :D
(No offence intended to BITP, it's just that Bill is very rarely wrong about this sort of thing, in fact I can't remember a time when he got it wrong :disturbd: )
:blush:
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well given that Bill is basing his opinion on his experience as an NTL employee, albeit filtered by a non-disclosure agreement, I would believe him every time.
Plus having seen the piccies from the LAN party, I would be loth to argue with him, about anything ;) :)
:p:
Plus having seen the piccies from the LAN party, I would be loth to argue with him, about anything ;) :)
Having spoke to Bill on the phone, I wouldn't argue with him either :erm: :Sprint:
If Bill says today is Thursday, then it's Thursday :D :D
Ignition
25-09-2005, 20:05
Doesn't sound like too much more work than switching from ADSL to ADSL2+. Analogue will be switched off around that time anyway.
Fair bit of difference between using existing kit which can be upgraded with a simple software / firmware upgrade and having to complete replace the kit, which is exactly what would have to happen.
I am of course ignoring the fact that you'd need several times as many uBRs, that the Telewest dude didn't promise anything he merely said 'potentially' even though ZDNet twisted it all nicely, etc, etc.
Frankly I've no time for this. UKOnline / Be / BT / Bulldog could release over 100Mbit using existing technology, VDSL2, doesn't mean it's going to happen.
Also just out of interest where exactly is this money going to come from, Telewest are not a money making company still, unlike ntl, presumably they are going to merge with ntl then spend their money?!
Sorry this is nonsense, I've known a cable operator that has offered 10Mbit for over 3 years, nothing revolutionary about that, and DOCSIS 3 is still on paper (though ignore me if you want I'm just a member of the body that approves these things).
Either way I've little time for this, you could stick a gigabit to every home right now if you had the money via fibre and 2nd generation passive optics, doesn't mean it's going to happen.
To be honest ntl will probably be in a position to offer 100Mbit down the coaxial network by end of 2006 and not via DOCSIS 3 to companies that are willing to pay the price.
Feel free to ignore me though, I mean what do I know compared the the 'bloke in the pub' I'm just some dude who has worked on cable and DSL networks for the past few years and has a working in-depth knowledge of both platforms :shrug:
Fair bit of difference between using existing kit which can be upgraded with a simple software / firmware upgrade and having to complete replace the kit, which is exactly what would have to happen.
I am of course ignoring the fact that you'd need several times as many uBRs, that the Telewest dude didn't promise anything he merely said 'potentially' even though ZDNet twisted it all nicely, etc, etc.
Frankly I've no time for this. UKOnline / Be / BT / Bulldog could release over 100Mbit using existing technology, VDSL2, doesn't mean it's going to happen.
Also just out of interest where exactly is this money going to come from, Telewest are not a money making company still, unlike ntl, presumably they are going to merge with ntl then spend their money?!
Sorry this is nonsense, I've known a cable operator that has offered 10Mbit for over 3 years, nothing revolutionary about that, and DOCSIS 3 is still on paper (though ignore me if you want I'm just a member of the body that approves these things).
Either way I've little time for this, you could stick a gigabit to every home right now if you had the money via fibre and 2nd generation passive optics, doesn't mean it's going to happen.
To be honest ntl will probably be in a position to offer 100Mbit down the coaxial network by end of 2006 and not via DOCSIS 3 to companies that are willing to pay the price.
Feel free to ignore me though, I mean what do I know compared the the 'bloke in the pub' I'm just some dude who has worked on cable and DSL networks for the past few years and has a working in-depth knowledge of both platforms :shrug:
Nicely Put. :clap:
Chrysalis
25-09-2005, 20:11
docsis3 if I am right also requires customers cable modems replacing.
Ignition
25-09-2005, 20:17
For the techies:
Currently standard DOCSIS build networks built to US standards offer the frequency band between 5 and 42MHz for upstream traffic.
This band supports the PPV, interactive, return traffic for VOD, etc, etc.
This band is noisy due to 'beats' or harmonic 'reflections' of various things, from power cables to baby monitors to street lights, which means some of it is unusable.
After all of that garbage you're going to have perhaps 20MHz which is usable, and the most advanced and efficient system in use at the moment offers 4 bits per Hz or a total of 80Mbit per network area of which 25% goes byebye due to overheads. There are more efficient systems however these require cleaner quality networks, and also place a greater strain on the lasers carrying the upstream traffic as the higher up you go with the modulation the more load it imparts on the lasers, that's not including the extra load from carrying multiple signals simultaneously.
Downstream wise presently the standard 'Service Control Group' for a cable modem card which presently supports a maximum bandwidth on the Telewest platform of 38Mbps will be around 600 cable modems, 100 cable modems per 3.2MHz 4.8/9.6Mbit upstream.
To supply these guys with 100Mbit will in theory maintaining present contention require 60 modems per 38Mbps equivalent service control group, 10 downstreams serving each 600 homes taking service.
Of course it's easy, honest guv, especially when BT, Bulldog etc have had accessible ADSL2+ kit for a couple of years.
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docsis3 if I am right also requires customers cable modems replacing.
Yep every customer taking a service requiring DOCSIS 3 would require a modem swap.
Hans Gruber
25-09-2005, 20:27
Feel free to ignore me though
Will do :tu:
;) :p:
saw http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds24757.html about telewest hoping to launch 100mbit by the end on next year. Im guessing ntl will follow suit, or are already thinking of following suit. Everyone apologize to the bloke in the pub ;)
Maybe zdnet heared it from a bloke in the pub :p:
icanadvise
27-09-2005, 19:48
What a shame that the people who are in the know run a different forum and wont comment
I asked there about another development and was politely told by an admin that the other forum would not comment (although they clearly did know)
Big shame!!!!Bill can you not ask a key individual to comment here?
slowcoach
27-09-2005, 20:26
saw http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds24757.html about telewest hoping to launch 100mbit by the end on next year. Im guessing ntl will follow suit, or are already thinking of following suit. Everyone apologize to the bloke in the pub ;)
The "Bloke in the Pub" can take the flak, just so long as everyone remembers who told them first, AGAIN! ;)
Then there is the rumour that all the speed upgrades from other ISP's are a direct result of them reading the "Bloke in the Pub" messages..... could be. :Yikes:
The "Bloke in the Pub" can take the flak, just so long as everyone remembers who told them first, AGAIN! ;)
Then there is the rumour that all the speed upgrades from other ISP's are a direct result of them reading the "Bloke in the Pub" messages..... could be. :Yikes:
:D Lets all make up stories so they give us great speeds then :dunce:
Ignition
27-09-2005, 21:10
Then there is the rumour that all the speed upgrades from other ISP's are a direct result of them reading the "Bloke in the Pub" messages..... could be. :Yikes:
Or they could be a result of the long standing and publically known about plans for BT to release up to 8Mbit 'MaxDSL' which was originally scheduled for, ooo, September 2005.
Considering your age your naivety is quite amusing sometimes dude :)
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saw http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds24757.html about telewest hoping to launch 100mbit by the end on next year. Im guessing ntl will follow suit, or are already thinking of following suit. Everyone apologize to the bloke in the pub ;)
No, read the exact same kinda thing from http://www.broadbandreports.com months ago although this was an exec from Comcast if I remember rightly, same kinda numbers 50 and 100Mbit.
Is now a bad time to point out that DOCSIS 3 cable modems are expected to cost a mere £130 or so, compared to the less than £20 that DOCSIS 1 / 1.1 / 2.0 modems do now? ;)
It's technically doable just so insanely bloody expensive and where TW are going to find the money from for 100Mbit is anyone's guess.
For all we all know this might just be posturing in preparation for the ntl merger, just as the apparent non-sale of Flextech was. Neither Telewest nor ntl will need to offer 100Mbit by the end of next year, chances are that no-one will go much faster than the ADSL2+ speeds that are being offered by then.
It all depends on BT however, if they go widespread with 2+ and turn the screw with fibre to kerb and fibre to home who knows. At present though this is the most likely course of events, BT's network can't handle a widespread ADSL2+ rollout until they can go pure IP rather than having to use ATM backhauls.
Chrysalis
27-09-2005, 23:13
ignition what is docsis2 capable off, or is that just a minor upgrade to eurodocsis?
It offers better upstream bandwidth.
Chrysalis
28-09-2005, 10:54
ahh so yeah like ignition said then docsis3 needed for 100mbit and that would be hella expensive to rollout.
Ignition
28-09-2005, 13:17
ignition what is docsis2 capable off, or is that just a minor upgrade to eurodocsis?
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showpost.php?p=460865&postcount=11
Chrysalis
30-09-2005, 15:01
thanks
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