BNP loses seats [Archive]

aliferste

17-10-2003, 16:31

But their wasn't any was their. I don't remember the people being asked if they wanted Britian flooded with immigrants

:rolleyes:

~must.....resist.......must ....resist......Defiant talking rubbish!!! ~

:blah:= Defiant

I hear all the seats that the BNP won are thinking of kicking them out. They do absolutely nowt. They dont turn up for meetings, they dont do anything for their constituants, they do hee haw basically!!

Even the racists want them out!!

Yea go for it Defiant.......waste your vote!!!! Oh thats right can you actually vote yet? If i remember rightly you were still at school or something so it was just school yard banter you were basing your views on were you not?

Ta Ta.......away to do some more do gooder work tonight!! :rolleyes:

Nor

17-10-2003, 16:37

I'm glad we have the BNP in the UK. If it wasn't for the BNP showing us all how vile their beliefs are we might find ourselves slowly edging in their direction.

Steve H

17-10-2003, 16:39

Ok guys, Tender subject here.. Can we please refrain from the Personal abuse and keep it on topic? :)

I understand the frustration, Both sides have there own points of view, and thats there point of view, which they're entitled to so long as it isnt too extreme with regards to the forum T&C.

Thanks.

kronas

17-10-2003, 17:46

I'm glad we have the BNP in the UK. If it wasn't for the BNP showing us all how vile their beliefs are we might find ourselves slowly edging in their direction.

well some or should i say alot of people are edging there way... the BNP is a racist party who strive for white supremacy not equality

the uk independance part is still the best IMO if they carry out the critera which they have set out

http://www.independence.org.uk/home.shtml

Steve H

17-10-2003, 18:18

well some or should i say alot of people are edging there way... the BNP is a racist party who strive for white supremacy not equality

the uk independance part is still the best IMO if they carry out the critera which they have set out

http://www.independence.org.uk/home.shtml

Thats your opinion Kronas, as your entitled to have :) My opinion is that your wrong, but thats another story.

My vote, at the moment lies with no one. I think the parties we have on offer are utter tripe and this needs rectifying.. The goverments are there for us, and we're just sitting back and letting them argue amongst themselves, whilst not doing anything benificial to us.

Let me just add something to the discussion, that hopefully wont lead us off topic.

Why are so many people edging towards the BNP if they are as bad as many people portray them to be? Is it because the upcoming adults of today are stupid? Or is it because there one main campaign argument strikes home? I read the article about BNP losing seats.. Maybe thats a good thing, because I tell you now, there's going to be a real influx in votes for the BNP, in the upcoming year, In stoke, if no where else.

I would like to reiterate, that I dont support, the BNP, or even necessairly agree with there views.

Please can we keep reponses to this thread un-offensive. Cheers :)

kronas

17-10-2003, 18:38

Thats your opinion Kronas, as your entitled to have :) My opinion is that your wrong, but thats another story.

as long as we agree to a civilized discussion and accept our opinions and put our points forward i hope this thread goes somewhere

My vote, at the moment lies with no one.

same here although im leaning towards the party i mentioned in my previous post

I think the parties we have on offer are utter tripe and this needs rectifying.. The goverments are there for us, and we're just sitting back and letting them argue amongst themselves, whilst not doing anything benificial to us.

they lie they decieve they bicker amongst each other provide polices that the public wants to hear but they do very little or what they do is in the end is not what the voter wants...........

Why are so many people edging towards the BNP if they are as bad as many people portray them to be? Is it because the upcoming adults of today are stupid? Or is it because there one main campaign argument strikes home? I read the article about BNP losing seats.. Maybe thats a good thing, because I tell you now, there's going to be a real influx in votes for the BNP, in the upcoming year, In stoke, if no where else.

the BNP is made up of racists trying to encorage people to vote for them by using immigration and other such factors to sway support ofcourse what you see on the outside is clearly not what you get on the inside

I would like to reiterate, that I dont support, the BNP, or even necessairly agree with there views.

any opnion is good towards a discussion as long as you dont talk out of your a*se ;)

Please can we keep reponses to this thread un-offensive. Cheers :)

yes i agree to that :)

Nor

17-10-2003, 18:49

You be able to vote in the next election Steve ? Depends when your birthday is I guess.

Steve H

17-10-2003, 19:21

the BNP is made up of racists trying to encorage people to vote for them by using immigration and other such factors to sway support ofcourse what you see on the outside is clearly not what you get on the inside

The thing I was trying to get at, was there's a reason they're targetting Immigration. Generally,.. I guess that people are fed up with with the current rules on immigration.. Which seems VERY insignificant to some at the moment, But if it carries on the counties gonna be full, Literally.

I'll be 18 in 9 monthes Nor.

Gogogo

17-10-2003, 19:24

Yes, I welcome the defeat of the BNP. The BNP is a collection of rather unpleasant people, it includes thugs and law breakers and the link to Searchlight magazine provides a glimpse into these personalities. I suspect some people join without realising what they have done or without thinking through the facts. Unfortunately, people look for easy answers and the BNP 's racist policies may apppear attractive to some but in reality social and economic problems are more complex.

I think the general decline in Conservative Party support is a key to the success of right wing groups like the BNP. A strong Conservative Party would lead to these extreme right groups declining. Also there clearly has been some disillusionment with the Labour Party in certain localities, which unfortunately is seen by some as being aloof from their day to day problems. I think it is up to decent people whether Conservative, Liberal or Labour supporters to learn lessons and act together to halt any further penetration by the BNP anywhere.

http://www.searchlightmagazine.com/default.asp

:)

Nor

17-10-2003, 19:28

Next one needs to be before June 2005 and with the way the opinion polls are going I guess I can't really see them going for an early 2004 one so you'll probably be in luck :)

darant

17-10-2003, 19:30

deadite66

17-10-2003, 19:46

to have any chance for voting labour out i would need to vote conservative, but all the opposition parties have grand ideas about what they will do and all of them will amount to nothing if we don't tear up the human rights treaty and none of them will do this.

the trouble is none of the main parties can be trusted to hold to their promises BNP are they only one's you can guarantee to stop the tide of bogus asylum seekers the current rate is unsustainable.

it's a no win situation, i don't want to vote for BNP but the mainstream parties have forced my hand.

darant

17-10-2003, 20:44

we don't have bnp in reading so you can't vote for them.

Do I vote in Reading then?

BNP
PO Box 287,
Waltham Cross,
Herts. EN8 8ZU

Tel:- 01992 631677

These are the seats currently:
South East [10]
East England [9] (2 Basildon & Broxbourne)
W Midlands [23] (5 last time ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¬ ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã¢â‚¬Å“ 1 each in B'ham, Stoke & Dudley; 2 in Sandwell)
E Midlands [11] (1 last time ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¬ ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã¢â‚¬Å“ by-election in Leic)
South West [17] (0 last time)
Mid South [6] (0 last time)
North West [44] (21 last time. Burn 13; Old 5; Wig 1; Southp 1; Liv 1)
North East [54] (9 last time. Gateshead 3; Sunderland 6)
Yorkshire [46] (7 last time. LS 1; BD 1; DN 1; Dews 4)
Scotland [1] (0 last time)

Shaun

17-10-2003, 20:54

The thing I was trying to get at, was there's a reason they're targetting Immigration. Generally,.. I guess that people are fed up with with the current rules on immigration..

The current government have tried to change the immigration laws but have been told by the court of human rights that they can't. How exactly are the BNP going to do anything different? Are they going to send the boys round and break their knee caps?

Shaun

17-10-2003, 21:01

BNP are they only one's you can guarantee to stop the tide of bogus asylum seekers the current rate is unsustainable.

They really must have a great PR company if they are making people I would normally consider smart believe that they can and will change anything to do with asylum, maybe Ntl should get their number!

I think anyone that votes BNP should look at their policies on other things like education, transport or tax, I think you'll have a shock :dozey:

The BNP are all :blah: and no action, just look at the seats they already hold people there can't wait to off load them.

The BNP are a joke, a bit like most political party's in this country :rolleyes:

Defiant

17-10-2003, 21:54

:rolleyes:

~must.....resist.......must ....resist......Defiant talking rubbish!!! ~

:blah:= Defiant

I hear all the seats that the BNP won are thinking of kicking them out. They do absolutely nowt. They dont turn up for meetings, they dont do anything for their constituants, they do hee haw basically!!

Even the racists want them out!!

Yea go for it Defiant.......waste your vote!!!! Oh thats right can you actually vote yet? If i remember rightly you were still at school or something so it was just school yard banter you were basing your views on were you not?

Ta Ta.......away to do some more do gooder work tonight!! :rolleyes:

Well how little you know about whats happening out their then. Me wel after gettig back from the pub. One I've not been in for a long time and listening to them go on about all the bloody immigrants shows you know nothing about the real world. apart from YOURS of course.

I'm always going to remember the bloody do gooders like others will. You know its a shame. I know so many people that came to this country to live that think the same thing

Enoughs enough

Shaun

17-10-2003, 22:02

shows you know nothing about the real world.

So tell me then D, what exactly are they going to do to stop illegal immigrants coming into the country?

Steve H

17-10-2003, 22:13

The current government have tried to change the immigration laws but have been told by the court of human rights that they can't. How exactly are the BNP going to do anything different? Are they going to send the boys round and break their knee caps?

Precisley. WHy should britain have to put up with all the illegals, when other countries refuse them eh? Whats the "Court of human rights" Gonna do, If we refuse to let them in?, Which is what the BNP want to do.

Richard M

17-10-2003, 22:16

You ever tried to work in the US?
It's very nearly impossible. :rolleyes:

Ramrod

17-10-2003, 22:55

Admin Edit <Steve_NTL> Provocotive comments removed, please refrain from posting abuse in here, Thanks.

:2up: :2up: :2up:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/3199144.stmHang on a sec. Kronas is a "man of colour"(isn't he?), if he isn't entitled to heap abuse on the BNP then who is?!

Steve H

17-10-2003, 23:04

Hang on a sec. Kronas is a "man of colour"(isn't he?), if he isn't entitled to heap abuse on the BNP then who is?!

What do you mean? :confused:

downquark1

17-10-2003, 23:13

But their wasn't any was their. I don't remember the people being asked if they wanted Britian flooded with immigrants
You mustn't have been here after the war when there were labour shortages:o

Also employers like immagrants as they tend to work for less money, so even the right [wing] are for immagration sometimes.

Ramrod

17-10-2003, 23:49

What do you mean? :confused:Well....the BNP are anti black people in the UK, kronas is a black British man living in the UK so I think that he of all people is entitled to speak out against the BNP, since they are anti-him!

Defiant

18-10-2003, 10:09

So tell me then D, what exactly are they going to do to stop illegal immigrants coming into the country?

Simple you kick them out to the first neutral country they were in last. Or you lock them up for a few months to show them its not a nice country and then allow the public to KICK them back on the ferry's

Defiant

18-10-2003, 10:12

Well....the BNP are anti black people in the UK, kronas is a black British man living in the UK so I think that he of all people is entitled to speak out against the BNP, since they are anti-him!

I think some people seem to be going back a few years and still thinking this thing is just about anti colour when its not. Its about immigrants full stop. I know like I've said already people that have settled over here that think the same thing. Their not daft they know its not going to be fair on them and their family either if it carrys on. Common sense really

aliferste

18-10-2003, 14:52

Well how little you know about whats happening out their then. Me wel after gettig back from the pub. One I've not been in for a long time and listening to them go on about all the bloody immigrants shows you know nothing about the real world. apart from YOURS of course.

I'm always going to remember the bloody do gooders like others will. You know its a shame. I know so many people that came to this country to live that think the same thing

Enoughs enough

I have not a clue about anything you said there!!

What I gather though is that you think I do not live in the real world. Um...no actually I do!! Possibly in a more real world than you do anyway as you base all your opinions on school yard banter and what other people and the Dail Mail say.
The other night i was working with a group of young asylum seekers.....possibly the most humbling experiance of my life. They were so eager to learn about how it is to live in the West and when someone spoke in there own language they were quick to point out that I did not understand them and tell me what they were saying. One of them was telling me that their parents asylum application had just been accepted and they were so happy as now they felt that their lives had been saved.

I was talking to one of the other workers who was telling me about a young girl whos fingers had been chopped off as she had been caught wearing nail varnish. Her application had been refused on a technicality........you will be glad at that Defiant and darant as she was then branded "bogus" you would have enjoyed driving her into the sea with you and your BNP policies :2up:

I meet people like you every day of my life and i will continue to challenge you no matter where i meet you......I even would chalenge you in the street if i met you or anyone else for that matter. On the subject of racism and the BNP enough is never enough even though you would like to think that when you run out of your petty arguments about "race" and "our" country and still bleat them over and over again......almost as if someone was stabbing you in the side instead of asking for help.

Shaun

18-10-2003, 17:00

Simple you kick them out to the first neutral country they were in last. Or you lock them up for a few months to show them its not a nice country and then allow the public to KICK them back on the ferry's

If it was that easy then the current government would be doing it, what do you think the current detention centres are for?

I think we really need to look through the hysteria that newspapers like the sun and the daily mail have created and try and remember why we have immigration laws in the first place. Many of the people that come to this country have come here in fear of their lives, theses people need to be welcomed with open arms, they need our help and support to rebuild their lives.

However on the other side of the coin yes we do have a (growing) number of people trying to claim asylum that do not meet the criteria to enter, yes theses people should be rebuffed and should not be allowed into the country.

One thing you have to remember is that many of these "bogus" claimants do not even know what criteria there are or even that they were to be questioned before they were let into the country. Many of these unfortunate people have been conned into thinking that they can travel thousands of mile to come to our country for a better life for them and their family's. This is not true, and our civil services (not the government) do their best to look after them and send them home.

The civil service can only do what the law states, this is a plain and simple fact. The government have tried to change the laws to help with the current situation but the court of human rights have rebuffed their plans. This is not the governments fault, there is NOTHING they or any future government can do. This is yet another plain and simple fact.

If you have a BNP man / woman standing on your doorstep telling you something different the I suggest that you laugh in his/her face and shut the door, because they are lying to you.

I agree with you that people that try to claim asylum but are not eligible should be sent back as soon as possible to prevent money being waisted but they do have a right to appeal, and wouldn't you if you were in their shoes?

The problem here is that some people in the country are unhappy about the way the asylum system is working in this country and the BNP have decided that it would benefit them to join the witch hunt to further their own ends. So far all I have heard is people repeating the BNPs promises to change the asylum system but no one can tell me how they intend to do it, this is because they don;t know themselves.

I watched question time in the spring before the easter break and they were in an area where the BNP had seats (cant remember where exactly) and the issue of the local BNP candidates came up and people there couldn't wait to get rid of them because they had made promises to people than couldn't deliver them.

This is a very emotive subject but people need to remember there are human beings behind the headlines ;)

kronas

18-10-2003, 17:43

I vote BNP.

Whats the problem????

the problem is that the BNP are riding on peoples anger at certain issues the backgrounds of certain members (key members) show that they are racist they are out there to alienate non whites who actually do give back to this country

kronas

18-10-2003, 17:48

So tell me then D, what exactly are they going to do to stop illegal immigrants coming into the country?

ill answer this one i think funds would have to be relocated to a sort of special force which deals with finding immigrants they find and locate where they are flooding from and keep them in holding cells till they are deported there details would be noted and if they reattempted to enter the uk and are caught then they would have to be incacirated harsh but fair IMO

Well....the BNP are anti black people in the UK, kronas is a black British man living in the UK so I think that he of all people is entitled to speak out against the BNP, since they are anti-him!

ramrod the anti-black thing is an issue i am against but apart from that just looking at the party member backgrounds from links i have seen you have to realise people like them dont change they are hiding there real image to get in to power........

Shaun

18-10-2003, 18:09

ill answer this one i think funds would have to be relocated to a sort of special force which deals with finding immigrants they find and locate where they are flooding from and keep them in holding cells till they are deported there details would be noted and if they reattempted to enter the uk and are caught then they would have to be incacirated harsh but fair IMO

I'm afraid that this shows one of my points to be true. You cant do this, it just isn't possible, international law states that you must go through certain procedures when dealing with people that are trying to claim asylum (for good reason).

I do stand with you in believing that people that aren't entitled to enter the country legally should be sent back promptly but they ways the BNP (and other political party's :rolleyes: ) are offering just cant be implemented, we would end up in SOOOOO much trouble.

As an aside, it would be morally wrong to do as you have stated :(

Shaun

18-10-2003, 18:11

While I'm in the thread, can one of you who vote for the BNP please tell me what their other policy's are??

You could start with transport, or education, maybe social services?

Defiant

18-10-2003, 18:41

You could start with transport, or education, maybe social services?

Yea think of the billions saved if we kept out economic migrants, Housing, Dhss, legal aid etc

aliferste

18-10-2003, 18:49

Yea think of the billions saved if we kept out economic migrants, Housing, Dhss, legal aid etc

Possibly in your "top ten" of idiotic posts!!!

BUT....I shall try and tell you what an economic migrant is!!

An economic migrant my dear Defiant is someone who had been allowed entry into the country as they have a valued skill. ie a doctor, nurse or other skilled trade. A bit like people that go away to Australia for a few years...they are economic migrants!!!

Go and read some books eh!!

Defiant

18-10-2003, 18:57

Possibly in your "top ten" of idiotic posts!!!

BUT....I shall try and tell you what an economic migrant is!!

An economic migrant my dear Defiant is someone who had been allowed entry into the country as they have a valued skill. ie a doctor, nurse or other skilled trade. A bit like people that go away to Australia for a few years...they are economic migrants!!!

Go and read some books eh!!

I see them in parts of this area as people that try and get everything they can from the system. You must be in Cuckoo land.

We know what your views are thought dont we. DOORS WIDE OPEN

Shaun

18-10-2003, 19:07

I see them in parts of this area as people that try and get everything they can from the system. You must be in Cuckoo land.

We know what your views are thought dont we. DOORS WIDE OPEN

Defiant, I think the problem here is your talking at cross purposes because your using the wrong words to describe people. If you reread the comment above then you will see that an economic migrant is someone who has a particular skill that we need and is here legally (they are here to HELP the country, not take from it).

The people you should be unhappy about are the illegal asylum seekers, people that have no right to be here, not people that are here legally.

If your going to accuse people of being in cuckoo land then I guess you should make sure you use the right terminology to describe people. I don;t think its your fault as the papers and people like the BNP use the various terms interchangeably which they aren't :(

But still you haven't told me HOW they will change the system, and what their other policy's are. Without policy's that can work on every aspect of government then they will destroy the country, yes there may be no illegal immigrants but there will be no economy, schools or hospitals either. Would you like to live in a country like that?

I understand that you are unhappy with the level of "bogus" asylum seekers, but voting BNP will not solve these issues.

aliferste

18-10-2003, 19:16

I see them in parts of this area as people that try and get everything they can from the system.

There are lots of people in the UK that do that? Why do you not bother with benifits cheats...they are just as big a drain!

I take it you dont like them as they are black?

kronas

19-10-2003, 02:48

As an aside, it would be morally wrong to do as you have stated :(

some of that is already being done i dont mean treat them rough or anything like that i mean if they made attempts to enter more then once they have clearly been analysed to be coming to this country for alterior motives and not running away from persucation they would have to be dealt with.......

Defiant

19-10-2003, 10:50

There are lots of people in the UK that do that? Why do you not bother with benifits cheats...they are just as big a drain!

I take it you dont like them as they are black?

Here we go again a muppet with a colour problem. Well muppet are most of the eastern europeans black. NOPE correct so get off your racist horse.

As for "benifits cheats" well why should we have to be dealing with everyone else's problems when like you say we've got our own problems to sort out first. Very nice of you to admit we have these problems though

aliferste

19-10-2003, 11:02

Here we go again a muppet with a colour problem. Well muppet are most of the eastern europeans black. NOPE correct so get off your racist horse.

As for "benifits cheats" well why should we have to be dealing with everyone else's problems when like you say we've got our own problems to sort out first. Very nice of you to admit we have these problems though

Well, the BNPs issues are generally around black people and you support them......
You see Defiant, the only issues you go on about are the ones that involve people that are not white.

As usuall you impress me with your amazingingly well thought out arguments!!

The countries problems will never be fixed .......quite handy as you do not want to help anyone else.

Defiant

19-10-2003, 11:24

Well, the BNPs issues are generally around black people and you support them......
You see Defiant, the only issues you go on about are the ones that involve people that are not white.

As usuall you impress me with your amazingingly well thought out arguments!!

The countries problems will never be fixed .......quite handy as you do not want to help anyone else.

So I'm guessing your black or something because everytime someone mentions immigrants you put your do gooder hat on and start accusing them of being racist. Well as I've said before carry on because your helping to make them with that attitude. The only problem I've got is immigrants in general and their not all black OR brown,yellow. I'll even mention those pesky grey Alien's that come over without asking :Peace:

And you amaze me aliferste. You know what's gonna happen if its left to carry on and if you have kids like me then you should put them first. Not your idea's that every scrounging git is welcome over here. The tax payers and goverment are easy...

downquark1

19-10-2003, 12:23

The BNP are mindless thugs, I know I've had family members, who work in Oldham threatened by them, and we are not visibally foreign or speak with an accent. I admit my biased and with good cause.

Nor

19-10-2003, 13:09

An economic migrant is someone who emigrates to another country motivated by economic reasons.

Defiant

19-10-2003, 13:43

An economic migrant is someone who emigrates to another country motivated by economic reasons.

Exactly and we have allot of them queuing up in Europe to get here

Ramrod

19-10-2003, 14:01

This is a very emotive subject but people need to remember there are human beings behind the headlines ;)Thats a very good point and very emotive but we are still being exploited by bogus assylum seekers. What dosn't help either is liberal do-gooders spending hundreds of thousands of pounds of our money on no-hope appeals. Like the one for an assylum seeker from Lithuania....ffs!

Ramrod

19-10-2003, 14:06

ramrod the anti-black thing is an issue i am against but apart from that just looking at the party member backgrounds from links i have seen you have to realise people like them dont change they are hiding there real image to get in to power........Exactly. I am somewhat for BNP policies as they can talk a good talk these days and appear to be working for British people (irrespective of colour) but deep down they don't change and will revert to type(imo). A bit like New Labour:rolleyes:

Ramrod

19-10-2003, 14:07

Exactly and we have allot of them queuing up in Europe to get hereBecause we're a soft touch!
Defiant, your hearts in the right place but I honestly think that you are being mislead by the BNP.
I am white and I am a racist (I am ashamed to admit it but I am) Taken individually non-white people are fine and I get on perfectly well (and like/admire) many. The problem comes when you get a collection of non-white (male) people together. I come all over defensive and paranoid. Maby it's my upbringing, maby it's the racism I have suffered as a teenager at the hands of black kids, I don't know.
The point I am making is that anyone who was anti-black enough to become a paid up member of the BNP is not going to 'change his spots' and realise the error of his ways. They are just repositioning themselves to get more of the vote.

kronas

19-10-2003, 14:13

Because we're a soft touch!

that we are i still think they must tighten up secuity at the access points to the uk and just send them back the same day or next day..... fast track system maybe unless they really are running away from persicution you also have to take in to account the beaurocracy/red tape with proccesing applications you cant do much more then that really

Shaun

19-10-2003, 14:13

Exactly. I am somewhat for BNP policies as they can talk a good talk

Thats the thing though, it is all talk.

Defiant, you keep spouting stuff, but there is no substance to it, go back to my last post and try and give me some answers, I'd like to know what their other policy's are and what EXACTLY are they going to do to rid this country of "bogus" (I hate that media induces word) asylum seekers?

Ramrod

19-10-2003, 14:18

I have edited post #54

Stuart

19-10-2003, 14:22

Defiant

19-10-2003, 14:50

Ah, so you got your information from the blokes at the pub? Where do they get their info from?

No I got my info with my own eye's and they got theirs that way too.

deadite66

19-10-2003, 14:52

at least hitler got the trains to run on time

Defiant

19-10-2003, 14:59

at least hitler got the trains to run on time

And invented the motorways. As for his idea's on europe well all he had to do was start the EU

Ramrod

19-10-2003, 15:01

at least hitler got the trains to run on timeVery true and yet somewhat provocative (and my father was in the SS):nono:

aliferste

19-10-2003, 15:20

No I got my info with my own eye's and they got theirs that way too.

Possibly the most unreliable way of getting information and facts there is Defiant......you only see what you want to see and hear what you want to hear.

Stuart

19-10-2003, 15:23

And invented the motorways. As for his idea's on europe well all he had to do was start the EU
Or the British Empire, which was around long before Hitler.

He also killed millions of innocent people, both in his own and other countries (and I don't just mean Jews).

aliferste

19-10-2003, 15:26

OK......so what you guys are saying is that because Hitler had like a few good things going for him then all the rest must have been good as well.

Saddam had a pretty good regime going then......he had the electricity going quickly after the first war and kept fantastic law and order.

Ramrod....when you say you feel nervous around groups of black men i think what you are feeling is "Xenophobia" a fear of strangers. Perfectly normal.

NOTE FOR DEFIANT Xenophobia sounds like zenafobia...

aliferste

19-10-2003, 15:33

I'll even mention those pesky grey Alien's that come over without asking :Peace:
.

:rolleyes:

Im sorry Defiant, were only talking about "real life" people in this debate. Not made up stuff!

Shaun

19-10-2003, 15:36

No I got my info with my own eye's and they got theirs that way too.

D, you keep glossing over our requests for policy's.

The grass always looks greener. :rolleyes:

Defiant

19-10-2003, 15:41

aliferste

19-10-2003, 15:44

Damn your one funny guy

I blush with your compliments

:blush:

Gogogo

19-10-2003, 15:57

at least hitler got the trains to run on time

How wrong you are. Hitler led his country into total ruin and destruction and along the way murdered over six million jews. The BNP is not much different from the German Nazis being led by thugs and **** who have nothing to offer this country except hatred and violence.

Shaun

19-10-2003, 16:13

Damn your one funny guy. Well lets see how funny you are in 5/10yrs if nothings done

Ignore him then, but you STILL haven't come up with any compelling evidence that the BNP would do what they say. Come on, prove me wrong.

I find it distressing that there are people out there that base their political views on what they are told down the pub. It's rather sad in my opinion, what a waste of a vote :(

Ramrod

19-10-2003, 16:20

Ignore him then, but you STILL haven't come up with any compelling evidence that the BNP would do what they say. Come on, prove me wrong.

I find it distressing that there are people out there that base their political views on what they are told down the pub. It's rather sad in my opinion, what a waste of a vote :(Dellwear. Do the BNP have a view on homosexuals that you know of?

aliferste

19-10-2003, 16:21

And invented the motorways.

He did not invent them! What else do you think you cold be wrong about?

http://home.att.net/~texhwyman/autobahn.htm

What is widely regarded as the world's first motorway was built in Berlin between 1913 and 1921. The 19 km long AVUS, in southwestern Berlin, was an experimental highway that was (and occasionally still is) used for racing. It featured two 8 meter lanes separated by a 9 meter wide median. Italy built several expressways in the 1920s and Germany followed with its first "auto-only roads" opening in 1929 between DÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€*Ã¢â‚¬â„¢ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¼sseldor f and Opladen and in 1932 between Cologne and Bonn. More routes were planned in the early '30s and Adolf Hitler, seeing the propaganda benefits of a high-speed road system (as well as the immediate military and employment value) started a program to build two north-south and east-west links.

Shaun

19-10-2003, 16:24

Dellwear. Do the BNP have a view on homosexuals that you know of?

The one person I have met that was a member, said they didn't (I think he was trying to get my vote :erm: ) but, I guess I'm not a straight white male who does manual work and beats up everyone who looks at them, so yer, probably :rolleyes:

aliferste

19-10-2003, 16:28

Dellwear. Do the BNP have a view on homosexuals that you know of?

Q: What is the BNP's policy in regard to homosexuality?

A: We believe that homosexuality is unhealthy for any community. Even so, no one wants to see homosexuals which make up less than 2% of the entire population persecuted for being what they are. That's why homosexuality was legalised. Nevertheless, the flood of homosexual propaganda to 'normalise' this tendency has been both unforeseen and corrupting. Consequently, there will be a ban on the public display and promotion of homosexuality, including in schools and in the mass media.

http://www.bnp.org.uk/faq.html#homos

NOTE......look at the link name :rolleyes:

Shaun

19-10-2003, 16:34

It would be like putting the school yard bullys in charge of the country :rolleyes:

Ramrod

19-10-2003, 16:43

Q: What is the BNP's policy in regard to homosexuality?

A: We believe that homosexuality is unhealthy for any community. Even so, no one wants to see homosexuals which make up less than 2% of the entire population persecuted for being what they are. That's why homosexuality was legalised. Nevertheless, the flood of homosexual propaganda to 'normalise' this tendency has been both unforeseen and corrupting. Consequently, there will be a ban on the public display and promotion of homosexuality, including in schools and in the mass media.

http://www.bnp.org.uk/faq.html#homos

NOTE......look at the link name :rolleyes: To all homosexuals here: Do you feel that homosexuality is 'normal' I know it's normal for you if you are homosexual but is it 'normal' in the greater scheme of things? In your opinion.

Ramrod

19-10-2003, 16:44

It would be like putting the school yard bullys in charge of the country :rolleyes:That it would.....

but the BNP's policies seem to speak for the common man and echo what a lot of us are saying on the topic of immigration and 'Britishness'. They are probably trying to get votes, it's a shame they are inexorably linked to racism and intolerance. It is also a shame that any anti-immigration sentiments are automatically linked to intolerance .

Steve H

19-10-2003, 17:10

To all homosexuals here: Do you feel that homosexuality is 'normal' I know it's normal for you if you are homosexual but is it 'normal' in the greater scheme of things? In your opinion.

Speaking as an Individuel, ( I have No Problem at all with homosexuals..) I do not want to see them kissing in public.

Ah, so you got your information from the blokes at the pub? Where do they get their info from?

Whats wrong with getting information from someone in a pub? :rolleyes:

They must be annoyed with it themselves, and want something done.

Why not form our own party.. :D (Not a bad idea actually :p)

downquark1

19-10-2003, 17:14

Whats wrong with getting information from someone in a pub? :rolleyes:

They must be annoyed with it themselves, and want something done.
As I mentioned in another thread the BNP spread rumours through the pub, they said that Oldham council removed the owl symbols from the ballards because it was offensive to muslims. Two things:

1) they removed them because they we being judged for a contest and they didn't have enough owls to cover all of them (things should match).

2) Muslims DON'T EVEN FIND OWLS OFFENSIVE.

Nick Griffen personally believes the holocost never happened.:2up:

MY uncle escaped from outsvits (spell?) :grind:

aliferste

19-10-2003, 17:35

Whats wrong with getting information from someone in a pub? :rolleyes:

They must be annoyed with it themselves, and want something done.

Because they themselves are getting there information from someone else in the pub....who may have made it up :)

Its called hearsay.

Defiant

19-10-2003, 17:45

Because they themselves are getting there information from someone else in the pub....who may have made it up :)

Its called hearsay.

Do you not get out or are you living in another country to the rest of us. Your talking Download Failed (1) and know it.

Gogogo

19-10-2003, 17:57

Actually, it's quite possible that homosexuality is alive and well in the BNP. Most fascist groups are quite good at this. The BNP's mentors the British Union of Fascists, the German Nazis and the S.A. (the brownshirts) and indeed their leader Ernst Rohm, and Mussolini's blackshirts were well known for homosexual activities. Maybe there are homosexuals amongst the BNP leaders.

Me I'm quite normal,happily married and a life long anti-fascist, my family suffered from fascism and I've no intention of letting fascist **** doing here what they've done elsewhere.

Shaun

19-10-2003, 18:35

Ramrod

19-10-2003, 18:44

I guess it depends how you define 'normal'Lets say that 'normal' is like most of the population. In terms of their sexual preference.
Does that help you andwer my question?

Ramrod

19-10-2003, 18:45

Speaking as an Individuel, ( I have No Problem at all with homosexuals..) I do not want to see them kissing in public.So you do have a problem with them....?

aliferste

19-10-2003, 18:54

Lets say that 'normal' is like most of the population. In terms of their sexual preference.
Does that help you andwer my question?

OOHHHHH!!!
Whats "normal" ?
To my m8 "normal" is going down the pub at the weekend and drinking 10 pints and then getting a kebab on the way home. To me "normal" at the weekend is having a quite night in with my partner having a nice glass of wine. My dancing arms are now in retirement (can be brought out at a moments notice however :) )
I would say was both have a "normal" life at the weekend

So whats "normal" in sexual preference?

I seen two straight guys snog each other the last time i was out clubbing.....was that normal??

aliferste

19-10-2003, 18:56

Do you not get out or are you living in another country to the rest of us. Your talking Download Failed (1) and know it.

Possibly the people I mix with are better informed?

Stuart

19-10-2003, 18:58

Do you not get out or are you living in another country to the rest of us. Your talking Download Failed (1) and know it.
Erm... OK..

So, you'd believe the man in the pub. Who, whether deliberately or not, may be wrong. Certain people may even believe and be spouting the BNP's propaganda.

I personally DON'T believe that we have as much of a problem with immigration as the press makes out. But, then I do tend to question most things I read or hear.

I don't know about where you live and work, Salford may have a bad immigration problem. I do know that there is not a bad problem round where I work and live. And I do work in a **** area.

Ramrod

19-10-2003, 19:02

I seen two straight guys snog each other the last time i was out clubbing.....was that normal??No it isn't, and you know it!

aliferste

19-10-2003, 19:04

Erm... OK..

I personally DON'T believe that we have as much of a problem with immigration as the press makes out. But, then I do tend to question most things I read or hear.

A Believer!!!!

There are a number of Asylum Seekers placed near me....it was one of the areas that they all got dumped in. I couldnt meet a nicer crowd of people. Never any trouble and highly respectfull of people that help them.

aliferste

19-10-2003, 19:06

No it isn't, and you know it!#

But they were straight????
They laughed about it the next day......it was a short kiss...but still a kiss!!

Do you think they are gay?

aliferste

19-10-2003, 19:27

Anyway, the fact is........the BNP are rubbish in the places that they won seats, they dont turn up for meetings and do nothing. If you guys wanna vote for a party like that....GREAT

Ramrod

19-10-2003, 19:48

#

But they were straight????
They laughed about it the next day......it was a short kiss...but still a kiss!!

Do you think they are gay?Of course I don't think they are gay but that dosn't mean that their behaviour was normal

Ramrod

19-10-2003, 19:49

A Believer!!!!

There are a number of Asylum Seekers placed near me....it was one of the areas that they all got dumped in. I couldnt meet a nicer crowd of people. Never any trouble and highly respectfull of people that help them.Tell that to the people living in Margate and Broadstairs, they will be very happy for you...

aliferste

19-10-2003, 20:21

Tell that to the people living in Margate and Broadstairs, they will be very happy for you...

The thread is getting a bit heavy so i will tell an amusing joke to lighten the mood before we all start tearing each other to shreds again :)

Q : How do you confuse a Daily Mail reader?

A : Tell them that asylum seekers are the natural predators of paedophiles.

Im in at the red wine again tonight guys :drunk:

Ramrod

19-10-2003, 20:43

The thread is getting a bit heavy so i will tell an amusing joke to lighten the mood before we all start tearing each other to shreds again :)

Q : How do you confuse a Daily Mail reader?

A : Tell them that asylum seekers are the natural predators of paedophiles.:D

Im in at the red wine again tonight guys :drunk:...beer tonight:)

Defiant

19-10-2003, 21:02

Erm... OK..

So, you'd believe the man in the pub. Who, whether deliberately or not, may be wrong. Certain people may even believe and be spouting the BNP's propaganda.

No I didn't believe the man in the pub. There was infact a room (vault) full of people talking about this and living in the same area. I already knew what they were talking about. The massive influx here started about 5/6yrs ago and has not stopped. Anyone from this area will tell you its not a place for the goverment to start messing around with either

aliferste

19-10-2003, 21:10

No I didn't believe the man in the pub. There was infact a room (vault) full of people talking about this and living in the same area. I already knew what they were talking about. The massive influx here started about 5/6yrs ago and has not stopped. Anyone from this area will tell you its not a place for the goverment to start messing around with either

Defiant, Im sorry, I have not a clue what you are on about here. Vaults of people?

Massive influx?

Is it asylum seekers you dont like moving into your area or people from other ethnic backgrounds like Pakistanis and people from India etc?

In all seriousness!

Steve H

19-10-2003, 22:11

Possibly the people I mix with are better informed?

Whose to say they are better informed? Just because there idea's relate more to your own, does that make them better informed?

We are just as right as you think you are, The world we live in is one of Free thoughts (There isnt any Freedom of Speech anymore, For precisly the issue we're discussing!) And we can think what we want. If the majority think that, then I guess that makes it right in a democracy.

Defiant

19-10-2003, 22:20

Defiant, Im sorry, I have not a clue what you are on about here. Vaults of people?

Oh I'm sorry let me explain. In British pubs they have rooms which have the name vault outside them

Defiant

19-10-2003, 22:24

Is it asylum seekers you dont like moving into your area or people from other ethnic backgrounds like Pakistanis and people from India etc?

In all seriousness!

Very nice clean people Indian’s and nothing against them. I've even been around for a meal at the neighbour’s (Indians) and enjoyed their company. They made an effort to settle you see but you’re trying to change the argument here yet again. It’s about the influx of immigrants that shows no sign of stopping

Nor

19-10-2003, 22:28

We have a couple of shops in our main street. Used to be R S McColls and another newsagent. Pakistanis' took them over a few years ago. Nothing wrong with that in my book, except the shops have gone from nice clean shops to complete middens. I don't know if its a cultural thing or a business thing but most of these shops are a total mess and not very clean. Probably a business decision I guess.

To be honest I don't care what colour, race, religion, sexuality people are, all I want is to be served with a smile and treated well when I'm handing my money over.

Ramrod

19-10-2003, 22:29

I think that Defiant is just repeating what he and many that he knows are seeing with their own eyes. I have conversations like this every week with police, social workers, teachers, parole officers etc.

These people that I speak to are not prejudiced, they just notice patterns of criminal behaviour being repeated over and over by (but obviously not confined to) certain ethnic groups.
Obviously we have our own home grown criminal types but do we really need to import other cultures criminal tendencies?

aliferste

20-10-2003, 08:42

I think that Defiant is just repeating what he and many that he knows are seeing with their own eyes. I have conversations like this every week with police, social workers, teachers, parole officers etc.

Well I have conversations with the police, social workers and teachers every day and im sorry but the ones that i speak to are pretty certain about there views, that we do not have some kind of massive immigrant problem...raping our women and murdering our men :rolleyes:

Ramrod

20-10-2003, 10:02

Well I have conversations with the police, social workers and teachers every day and im sorry but the ones that i speak to are pretty certain about there views, that we do not have some kind of massive immigrant problem...raping our women and murdering our men :rolleyes:erm... you are exagerating a bit there. We are not talking about raping and murdering. More mundane crimes like shoplifting, fraud, mugging and violence.

aliferste

20-10-2003, 12:24

erm... you are exagerating a bit there. We are not talking about raping and murdering. More mundane crimes like shoplifting, fraud, mugging and violence.

Just like the rest of the UKs offending population then. You make it sound as if it is only asylum seekers that do this. I admite yes, there is a criminal element within the asylum seeker community.....but hey...who cares???? its to be expected !! there is an element of criminality in any community.

What annoys me is that they all seem to be getting tarred with the same brush!!

aliferste

20-10-2003, 12:38

Whose to say they are better informed? Just because there idea's relate more to your own, does that make them better informed?

.

People that work with asylum seekers every day, other workers in criminal justice!!
People that do research on immigration and todays social problems.....issues surrounding oppression, racial abuse, crime etc
Issues that I have to know about and write about and research around.

You see, I dont just talk to some guy down at the pub .......

aliferste

20-10-2003, 12:45

Oh I'm sorry let me explain. In British pubs they have rooms which have the name vault outside them

I can honestly say I have never been in a pub that has a room which has the name "vault" outside it!

Is it an English thing?
Here in sunny Scotland sometimes if its posh we have a place called a "lounge".

Hmmmm a Vault eh???.....its conjouring up all kind of images......whips and chains....screaming........dog fights...leering men with no teeth arguing about todays issues.

Ramrod

20-10-2003, 13:21

Just like the rest of the UKs offending population then. You make it sound as if it is only asylum seekers that do this. I admite yes, there is a criminal element within the asylum seeker community.....but hey...who cares???? its to be expected !! there is an element of criminality in any community.

What annoys me is that they all seem to be getting tarred with the same brush!!I previously stated that it is not just assylum seekers that commit crimes!

Stuart

20-10-2003, 13:27

I can honestly say I have never been in a pub that has a room which has the name "vault" outside it!

Is it an English thing?
Here in sunny Scotland sometimes if its posh we have a place called a "lounge".

Hmmmm a Vault eh???.....its conjouring up all kind of images......whips and chains....screaming........dog fights...leering men with no teeth arguing about todays issues.
Don't have pubs with Vaults in down south either. Well, not vaults they advertise...

aliferste

20-10-2003, 14:40

Ramrod

20-10-2003, 14:51

[QUOTE=RamrodThese people that I speak to are not prejudiced, they just notice patterns of criminal behaviour being repeated over and over by (but obviously not confined to) certain ethnic groups.
Obviously we have our own home grown criminal types but do we really need to import other cultures criminal tendencies?Ah yes, Sorry i see now!

Your saying that black people commit more crimes than white people?lol,(if you want me to be specific) I'm saying that a fair few Nigerians go in for fraud, a lot of Kosovans carry knives and arn't shy in using them and a lot of Romanys seem to go in for begging and pickpocketing.
Thats not rasict or prejudiced, It's just personal observation and what various police and other public servants have told me.
That is of course a generalisation but I bet that the law abiding people from those communities would agree with me.

aliferste

20-10-2003, 15:15

lol,(if you want me to be specific) I'm saying that a fair few Nigerians go in for fraud, a lot of Kosovans carry knives and arn't shy in using them and a lot of Romanys seem to go in for begging and pickpocketing.
Thats not rasict or prejudiced, It's just personal observation and what various police and other public servants have told me.
That is of course a generalisation but I bet that the law abiding people from those communities would agree with me.

But Ramrod........The exact same can be said for white people as well, just as many white people are into fraud, pickpocketing and begging etc than there black people. Im not disputing that there ARE black people etc into all that criminal behaviour..
Its just that [B]you[B] seem to notice it more.......possibly because you have admitted to being "racist".......which i might add is a very brave thing to do and i respect you for admitting it even if i think you are misguided.

Chris

20-10-2003, 15:23

Your saying that black people commit more crimes than white people?
The conviction rate is certainly higher. If you'll forgive me pre-empting what I think you're thinking, to put this down to police persecution and racist juries is surely as simplistic as trying to suggest that the offending rate is identical when 'black' people and 'white' people are compared.

There are compelling and unacceptable social reasons why offending rates are higher among black people, but I think the unqualified statement that 'black people commit more crimes than white people' is sadly true.

Ramrod

20-10-2003, 15:29

But Ramrod........The exact same can be said for white people as well, just as many white people are into fraud, pickpocketing and begging etc than there black people. Im not disputing that there ARE black people etc into all that criminal behaviour..I can see what you are saying but if I am told of a black person involved in a credit card scam or stealing identities or even that good old e-mail scam and I ask 'was it Nigerians?' I get told 'yes' quite often. Of course you get British beggars but have you been on the tube lately?- they are outnumbered by Romanys.
Its just that [B]you[B] seem to notice it more.......possibly because you have admitted to being "racist".......which i might add is a very brave thing to do and i respect you for admitting it even if i think you are misguided.As I said before, individuals I get on with/like/admire, groups of individuals are a different beast.

aliferste

20-10-2003, 15:30

The conviction rate is certainly higher. If you'll forgive me pre-empting what I think you're thinking, to put this down to police persecution and racist juries is surely as simplistic as trying to suggest that the offending rate is identical when 'black' people and 'white' people are compared.

There are compelling and unacceptable social reasons why offending rates are higher among black people, but I think the unqualified statement that 'black people commit more crimes than white people' is sadly true.

This is usually the time where i go trailing off to find out exactly what the research says.........I cant be bothered !!

So im gonna let you guys do it

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/

aliferste

20-10-2003, 15:36

I can see what you are saying but if I am told of a black person involved in a credit card scam or stealing identities or even that good old e-mail scam and I ask 'was it Nigerians?' I get told 'yes' quite often. Of course you get British beggars but have you been on the tube lately?- they are outnumbered by Romanys.
.

But the identity and email thing has got nothing to do with the UK crime thingymijjigers !! To be honest if you get conned by them well.........they are playing on peoples greed!!

LOL

Romany homeless people begging in the street!! Possibly through better education they could be helped off the street.

aliferste

20-10-2003, 15:42

Chris

20-10-2003, 15:49

Ooh Ooh.... before i go to work i thought i would show you this

"The size of the minority ethnic population was 4.6 million in 2001 or 7.9 per cent of the total population of the United Kingdom."
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=273
I don't think anyone's contesting that fact. What we're talking about at the moment is, do ethnic minority groups commit a disproportionately high proportion of crimes in the UK? (including asylum seekers in that).

As I said, there are doubtless mitigating circumstances, but I don't think there is any doubt that the crime rate is higher among ethnic minorities. Do you disagree?

kronas

20-10-2003, 15:54

As I said, there are doubtless mitigating circumstances, but I don't think there is any doubt that the crime rate is higher among ethnic minorities. Do you disagree?

i do the majorty of the people in the uk are white am i right ?

so if there are crimes being commited by a black person i believe people will notice it more because of there black skin

anyway back to my point i dont believe there is a big problem in the black community with crime yes there are gangs of black youths etc in various areas of the uk but the same goes for white people as well

Chris

20-10-2003, 16:04

i do the majorty of the people in the uk are white am i right ?

so if there are crimes being commited by a black person i believe people will notice it more because of there black skin

anyway back to my point i dont believe there is a big problem in the black community with crime yes there are gangs of black youths etc in various areas of the uk but the same goes for white people as well
Statistics aren't reported by absolute numbers, they're reported 'per 10,000 population', so you get a balanced picture. I'm having trouble with the ONS website search engine at the mo', so far the best I can link to is school exclusions by ethnic group, here:

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/StatBase/ssdataset.asp?vlnk=6220&Pos=2&ColRank=1&Rank=144

from this you can see that in school year 2000-2001, for every 10,000 white kids at a UK school, 13 of them got expelled, but in a sample of the same size of black Carribbean kids, 38 of them got expelled.

So, it is a fact to say that 'proportionately, more black kids get expelled than white kids'.

In the same way, I believe it is a fact to say that proportionately more black people commit crime than white people, altho I've not hit the right page on the ONS site yet ...

Of course, in absolute terms the number of white people in prison is higher than the number of black people, because the population of the UK is about 92% white. But this figure on its own masks the problem. The is a bigger problem among certain ethnic minority groups (not all; note in the school exclusion figures that the rate is lower for asians than for whites). To try to gloss over the problem effectively bars us from finding a solution.

kronas

20-10-2003, 16:10

from this you can see that in school year 2000-2001, for every 10,000 white kids at a UK school, 13 of them got expelled, but in a sample of the same size of black Carribbean kids, 38 of them got expelled.

but thats school age youngsters i was on about a more older age group the 16+ group ill admit one thing some asains i have seen and know are unruely and disruptive outside of school but it does not mean they are criminals

Chris

20-10-2003, 16:16

but thats school age youngsters i was on about a more older age group the 16+ group ill admit one thing some asains i have seen and know are unruely and disruptive outside of school but it does not mean they are criminals
Very true; I know it's a poor example but I was using it to illustrate statistical reporting methods, not as proof of criminal activity. As I said, I'm still wrestling with the search engine at www.statistics.gov.uk (http://www.statistics.gov.uk) ... anyone having better luck want to post a link to stats relating to crime and ethnic group?

basa

20-10-2003, 16:17

All these statistics regarding criminal activity by the various racial groups is all very fascinating, but..........

you will note they are all at least two years out of date and I would suggest that IMO the number of immigrants (legal or otherwise) has accelerated in the last few years.

However, even though the above is worrying, it is perhaps the apparent abuse of our social systems (benefits, housing etc. for people who have not contributed to the system) that upsets people as well. The recent case of an immigrant family using legal aid to take the local council to court for not providing adequate housing, springs to mind ... (and yes I know it was thrown out...but our money was still abused).

IMO whilst taking in asylum seekers is all well and good, we should really put our own people first, i.e. people who were born here and work(ed) here. We have enough of a problem with 'our own' without importing more problems.

Shaun

20-10-2003, 16:19

So, it is a fact to say that 'proportionately, more black kids get expelled than white kids'.

It's all very interesting, but what you have to work out what the constant of proportionality is here? Is it the bad behaviour of the black children or racism, or something else?

What ever it is, it still doesn't mean anyone should vote BNP! :nono:

Still no one has told me how the BNP will change all the issues raised in this thread, we all know what issues there are but there aren't many with WORKABLE answers.

Defiant, you still haven't told me HOW they plan on changing things :rolleyes:

Chris

20-10-2003, 16:20

The recent case of an immigrant family using legal aid to take the local council to court for not providing adequate housing, springs to mind ... (and yes I know it was thrown out...but our money was still abused).
What I want to know in this case is, who put them up to it? It's for certain they didn't arrive in the UK fully aware of the possibility that they could sue a council if their stairs were too steep. There are some crazy libertarian types out there who seem hell-bent on helping people abuse the system from the moment they arrive in the UK.

basa

20-10-2003, 16:25

What I want to know in this case is, who put them up to it? It's for certain they didn't arrive in the UK fully aware of the possibility that they could sue a council if their stairs were too steep. There are some crazy libertarian types out there who seem hell-bent on helping people abuse the system from the moment they arrive in the UK.

There are a large number of 'help' organisations in all large towns specifically to help immigrants get the most out of their local (and national) councils. They are invariably run by ex. immigrant individuals who 'know' the system from experience.

Ramrod

20-10-2003, 16:27

But the identity and email thing has got nothing to do with the UK crime thingymijjigers !! To be honest if you get conned by them well.........they are playing on peoples greed!!

LOL

Romany homeless people begging in the street!! Possibly through better education they could be helped off the street. But what you say dosn't dispute what I said. So are you agreeing that I have a point?

Ramrod

20-10-2003, 16:30

Chris

20-10-2003, 16:35

It's all very interesting, but what you have to work out what the constant of proportionality is here? Is it the bad behaviour of the black children or racism, or something else?

What ever it is, it still doesn't mean anyone should vote BNP! :nono:

Still no one has told me how the BNP will change all the issues raised in this thread, we all know what issues there are but there aren't many with WORKABLE answers.

Defiant, you still haven't told me HOW they plan on changing things :rolleyes:
I certainly agree with you on this ... BNP out. Who knows what other odious policies of discrimination they might unleash if they ever got into power.

In discussing statistics I'm trying to establish a frameweork for debate. It has been my experience in the past that some of the so-called do-gooders are so focused on achieving racial harmony that they will do anything they can to deny there is a significant problem in the first place. They would like it to be declared 'racist' to even point out that there is proportionately a higher crime rate amongst black people. They spend a lot of energy campaigning to have the Metropolitan Police declared 'institutionally racist' yet we don't hear them expending nearly so much energy highlighting London's serious black crime problem.

This prevents us properly understanding the problem and arriving at a solution. If we are to fully tackle the issue, no area of discussion can be out of bounds.

Niles Crane

20-10-2003, 16:58

towny, i agree mostly. However, some of your claims cannot be left unquestioned. Though blacks make only about 6% of the national population, they make up FAR more than that in London - probably anywhere up to 50%. London is where most of the crime, which make the statistics dis-proportionate on a national scale, happens - i'd also like to know how disproportionate the statistics are for London only. If you exclude London blacks from the national statistics, those crime statistics would not be as dis-proportionate, if at all.
Also, wealth has not been taken into account. Its an obvious fact that wealth and income has an affect on crime. Compare whites on the same income as blacks with the amount of crime commited - i've searched high and wide for such statistics, to no avail.
Finally, however cliched it is, police predjudice, competence, efficiency and racial profiling has to be taken into account. Compare number of random searches and stoppings in white districts, with black. Number of charges, number of arrests, corruption etc etc.

But what people must understand, yet unfortunetly plenty dont - or choose not to, is that merely because blacks may commit more crime than whites proportionatley, does not make a black any more likely to commit crime than his white counterpart.

Ramrod

20-10-2003, 16:59

I'm with you on that Towny!

Ramrod

20-10-2003, 17:00

But what people must understand, yet unfortunetly plenty dont - or choose not to, is that merely because blacks may commit more crime than whites proportionatley, does not make a black any more likely to commit crime than his white counterpart.So what? What point are you making here?

Niles Crane

20-10-2003, 17:09

So what? What point are you making here?

That has to be the most idiotic comment i've witnessed all day.
My point is clear and obvious. Read it again, instead of asking tedious questions which can be answered by the use of your own eyes. I know you have intelligence, the paragraph isnt hard to comphrehend.

Steve H

20-10-2003, 17:29

I dont know why colour always has to come into it, we're talking about immigrants here, not all of them are black.

And I think a Immigrant is more likely to commit crime than a Person Like ourselves, as they' dont have anything to lose really.

Niles Crane

20-10-2003, 17:34

Steve_NTL, the original thread subject was on the BNP, not immigrants. Colour has everything to do with it.

Nor

20-10-2003, 18:07

Isn't the massive majority of assylum seekers young single men ?

deadite66

20-10-2003, 18:17

Isn't the massive majority of assylum seekers young single men ?

yep and they traveled through all of europe to get here, funny i thought europe was safe.

Ramrod

20-10-2003, 18:18

That has to be the most idiotic comment i've witnessed all day.
My point is clear and obvious. Read it again, instead of asking tedious questions which can be answered by the use of your own eyes. I know you have intelligence, the paragraph isnt hard to comphrehend.No need to be rude m8. Maby I didn't phrase my question correctly. I just don't understand why you are making that paticular point.

aliferste

20-10-2003, 18:28

But what you say dosn't dispute what I said. So are you agreeing that I have a point?

Yea in principle i agree.But it still means nothing though .......just because people in Algeria or wherever it is try there hand at an email scam :rolleyes:

Its like saying the Russians are always losing plutonium. Thats all i hear but i know the UK and US do as well. bad example but if you think about it you will see :)

aliferste

20-10-2003, 18:32

aliferste

20-10-2003, 18:35

And I think a Immigrant is more likely to commit crime than a Person Like ourselves, as they' dont have anything to lose really.

Actually, if you are talking about asylum seekers then they are more likely to be the victims of crime rather than the perpetrators!!!

Immigrants on the other hand.....well ......they have become an immigrant because they have a skill that the country likes or needs. I would say they have got more to lose. You would very rarely ever get a poorly educated economic migrant!

Nor

20-10-2003, 18:37

Ramrod

20-10-2003, 18:39

Yea in principle i agree.But it still means nothing though .......just because people in Algeria or wherever it is try there hand at an email scam :rolleyes: and credit card scams and fraud.....but thats just pure coincidence of course!

Its like saying the Russians are always losing plutonium. Thats all i hear but i know the UK and US do as well. bad example but if you think about it you will see :) Or like saying Afghans carry guns.....hang on they bloody do you know! Or like saying Russians like vodka....oh wait, they do!
We are not dealing in absolutes here, there will always be exeptions but there are certain generalisations that can be observed in some cases......the English like beer, the French wine, it would be silly to ignore what is plainly noticable.

Ramrod

20-10-2003, 18:42

You would very rarely ever get a poorly educated economic migrant!So those hordes of young male illegal immigrants waiting in France to hide on trucks and sneak over the channel are mostly well educated individuals?! Go to Gravesend or Broadstairs or Dover and have a look!

aliferste

20-10-2003, 18:42

You are getting confused about what an economic migrant is. An economic migrant is just someone who moves to another country motivated by economic reasons. Not for what he can offer another country but for what it can offer him/her.

To be a proper economic migrant there are tests that you must pass. Anyone can apply to this country if they have the skill.
Its like this......in a few years time....i want to move to canada for a few years as the money is better and the standard of living is higher. When i go there i wil be an economic migrant.I will apply and say what skills and qualifications i have...they will grade me accordingly and i may get allowed in for a set period of time so i can get a job!

Its just the same the other way around

aliferste

20-10-2003, 18:42

So those hordes of young male illegal immigrants waiting in France to hide on trucks and sneak over the channel are mostly well educated individuals?! Go to Gravesend or Broadstairs or Dover and have a look!

Read my post about what an economic migrant is please!!
I know you posted this when i was posting mine :)

aliferste

20-10-2003, 18:45

and credit card scams and fraud.....but thats just pure coincidence of course!

Or like saying Afghans carry guns.....hang on they bloody do you know! Or like saying Russians like vodka....oh wait, they do!
We are not dealing in absolutes here, there will always be exeptions but there are certain generalisations that can be observed in some cases......the English like beer, the French wine, it would be silly to ignore what is plainly noticable.

And Rastafarians and Ganja............oh but wait ......millions of white people smoke ganja as well......its a bit like thousands of white people are involved in criminal activity.....so its exactly the same!!

Ramrod

20-10-2003, 18:54

And Rastafarians and Ganja............oh but wait ......millions of white people smoke ganja as well......its a bit like thousands of white people are involved in criminal activity.....so its exactly the same!!rotflmao....but ganga is central to the rastafarian faith isn't it, so they all smoke it? So that is a very good example of what I was saying.

Ramrod

20-10-2003, 18:56

Read my post about what an economic migrant is please!!
I know you posted this when i was posting mine :)I agree but you said 'to be a proper economic migrant'. These guys are not that.

Stuart

20-10-2003, 19:27

Steve_NTL, the original thread subject was on the BNP, not immigrants. Colour has everything to do with it.
Precisely. Remember people, the BNP's definition of Immigrants includes everyone who isn't white and don't have parents from Britain.

Ramrod

20-10-2003, 21:01

Niles Crane

20-10-2003, 21:13

As luck would have it my last patient tonight was a policeman who works in Kennington. I asked him if any ethnic group was more likely to be found commiting fraud here and he instantly replied: "Oh god yes! Nigerians, they're notorious for fraud Just ask any dss fraud investigator!"

You should have asked him which profession was most likely to eat donuts or take bribes. What would his answer have been then?

And by the way, your comments are interesting (or rather, the way you worded them in order to propogate your opinion). Why would he say "Oh God yes!" unless you'd already suggested Nigerians? Secondly, you ought to spell God with a capital G. Thirdly, there is no such thing as a Nigerian ethnic group. Fourthly, "just ask any dss fraud investigator!" - yeah, because they just happen to be around reguarly. Either the cop is a stereotypical moron, you're exaggerating and/or bull****ing totally or pigs have begun to fly (pardon the pun)......

aliferste

20-10-2003, 21:22

Ramrod

20-10-2003, 21:24

You should have asked him which profession was most likely to eat donuts or take bribes. What would his answer of been then?What's that got to do with this discussion?

But if you want to ask I would have to guess that Americans eat the most donuts (per capita) and the inhabitants of one of either an African/Indian or former Soviet country take the most bribes. I did used to know what the most corrupt country on earth was but I've forgotten, sorry.

Why is it ok to say something like 'Germans, per capita, drink the most beer in the world' but you take offence if people say that Nigerians seem to commit a lot of fraud?:confused:

Ramrod

20-10-2003, 21:30

Yea well...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lawrence/Story/0,2763,941167,00.html

:)

https://secure.dwp.gov.uk/benefitfraud/

there aint no Nigerian there:)erm...the first is about the Steven Lawrence affair and police racism and the second is a form to use to report a benefit cheat. Are you sure you got the correct links:confused:

Niles Crane

20-10-2003, 21:32

What's that got to do with this discussion?
But if you want to ask I would have to guess that Americans eat the most donuts (per capita) and the inhabitants of one of either an African/Indian or former Soviet country take the most bribes. I did used to know what the most corrupt country on earth was but I've forgotten, sorry.

1. I said profession, not country, not continent, i said profession.
2. India is a country, not a continent.
3. Pakistan is the most corrupt country on earth.

My question has everything to do with the discussion. My point being, would the policeman be so quick to make such abrupt comments if it affected him?
You're a white, male and hetrosexual right? So i'll ask you this question in the same vain as the one on fraud which you asked to the policeman:

In the UK, is there any group found to be more likely to commit acts of peadophillia?

As for the German thing..........find me evidence of where i've condoned anything like that and i'll answer.

aliferste

20-10-2003, 21:46

erm...the first is about the Steven Lawrence affair and police racism and the second is a form to use to report a benefit cheat. Are you sure you got the correct links:confused:

Well yea.....i didnt realise i had to spell it out :dunce:

You see, what i was insinuating was that the police are institutionally racist anyway, therefore no wonder a policeman would come out with a statement like that.....you see now??

The other link was about the fact that if there was so many Nigerians defrauding the DSS the surely they would have alittle box saying "Nigerian" It would save time :)

Ramrod

20-10-2003, 21:53

1. I said profession, not country, not continent, i said profession. Sorry, quite right. Why did you say profession?:confused: We are talking about ethnic groups...
2. India is a country, not a continent. I meant the Indian sub-continent (that is rather nit-picky)
3. Pakistan is the most corrupt country on earth. So you are saying that Pakistanis are the most corrupt people on earth?

My question has everything to do with the discussion. My point being, would the policeman be so quick to make such abrupt comments if it affected him? Huh? Whats that got to do with anything? I am sure that a Nigerian would lament the sorry state of the morals prevalent amongst his fellow Nigerians.
You're a white, male and hetrosexual right? So i'll ask you this question in the same vain as the one on fraud which you asked to the policeman:

In the UK, is there any group found to be more likely to commit acts of peadophillia? Absolutely, white males. Whats your point?

As for the German thing..........find me evidence of where i've condoned anything like that and i'll answer. erm....what?:confused:

aliferste

20-10-2003, 21:53

You're a white, male and hetrosexual right? .

You know thats a funny question.
In all the anti racist, anti sexism and anti just about every form of oppression training i have done......and believe you me.....in the last 15 years I have done absolutely sht loads....that is one question that always comes up.

A white male does not think about what it is like to be a white male in this society. In other words they do not think about the extra life chances that they get.....because they are not black or female. Because black and female people are so oppressed BY white males they fight all the harder ......um does that make sense? Its a tricky concept to grasp!

Ramrod

20-10-2003, 22:00

Well yea.....i didnt realise i had to spell it out :dunce:

You see, what i was insinuating was that the police are institutionally racist anyway, therefore no wonder a policeman would come out with a statement like that.....you see now?? So you are assuming that the policeman that I spoke to is a racist? Just because he is a policeman. You are apparently assuming that all policemen are racists. That is one hell of an assumption. In comparison my assertion that certain groups are more likely to commit certain crimes seems quite tame.
The other link was about the fact that if there was so many Nigerians defrauding the DSS the surely they would have alittle box saying "Nigerian" It would save time :) Come off it.

aliferste

20-10-2003, 22:02

So you are assuming that the policeman that I spoke to is a racist? Just because he is a policeman. You are apparently assuming that all policemen are racists. That is one hell of an assumption. In comparison my assertion that certain groups are more likely to commit certain crimes seems quite tame.
Come off it.

I dont need to assume anything..........the Macpherson report backs me up :)
Dont think anything had really moved forward since then !

Ramrod

20-10-2003, 22:04

A white male does not think about what it is like to be a white male in this society. In other words they do not think about the extra life chances that they get.....because they are not black or female. Because black and female people are so oppressed BY white males they fight all the harder ......um does that make sense? Its a tricky concept to grasp!That's not a tricky concept, it's a bitch, it's not right, it needs changing.:afire:

Niles Crane

20-10-2003, 22:04

Sorry, quite right. Why did you say profession?

I've already told you.

So you are saying that Pakistanis are the most corrupt people on earth?

No, i'm saying that according to the statistics you were talking about (which were released last year), Pakistan is the most corrupt country on earth.

Huh? Whats that got to do with anything? I am sure that a Nigerian would lament the sorry state of the morals prevalent amongst his fellow Nigerians.

Why do you keep asking "what?" when the answer is right infront of you?
Indeed they would, but thats not what i said or implied. Not all Nigerians are men by the way.

Absolutely, white males. Whats your point?

I've already told you it. But i'll elaborate; for many, stereotyping, profiling and the like is alot easier to others, and much harder to swallow when its closer to home.

erm....what?

Find me evidence of the hypocrisy you claim i have.

Ramrod

20-10-2003, 22:05

I dont need to assume anything..........the Macpherson report backs me up :)
Dont think anything had really moved forward since then !So, on the basis of that report, do you assert that all policemen are racist?

Niles Crane

20-10-2003, 22:10

Well yea.....i didnt realise i had to spell it out :dunce:

You see, what i was insinuating was that the police are institutionally racist anyway, therefore no wonder a policeman would come out with a statement like that.....you see now??

The other link was about the fact that if there was so many Nigerians defrauding the DSS the surely they would have alittle box saying "Nigerian" It would save time :)

I doubt the policeman he speaks of even exists.

Ramrod

20-10-2003, 22:19

I've already told you. well please tell me again, I am genuinly all at sea here.

No, i'm saying that according to the statistics you were talking about (which were released last year), Pakistan is the most corrupt country on earth.and since pakistan is mainly populated by pakistanis.....

Why do you keep asking "what?" when the answer is right infront of you? please spell it out to me then, stop messing about.
Indeed they would, but thats not what i said or implied. Not all Nigerians are men by the way.there you go nit-picking again. Please assume that I mean his/her whenever I refer to his.

I've already told you it. But i'll elaborate; for many, stereotyping, profiling and the like is alot easier to others, and much harder to swallow when its closer to home. It's not hard to swallow, it's a fact of life. I have learnt to accept and deal with it. The fact that white males are more likely to be paedophiles (and you accept this) should open your eyes to the possibility that black male Nigerians (for instance) are more likely to commit fraud.

Find me evidence of the hypocrisy you claim i have. Do you accept that Germans drink lots of beer?

aliferste

20-10-2003, 22:19

So, on the basis of that report, do you assert that all policemen are racist?

HMmmmm thats a tricky one............I wouldnt say that all POLICEMAN are racist......but i would certainly say the actual institution was racist. :)

Ramrod

20-10-2003, 22:20

I doubt the policeman he speaks of even exists.So you are saying that I'm a liar?

Ramrod

20-10-2003, 22:23

HMmmmm thats a tricky one............I wouldnt say that all POLICEMAN are racist......but i would certainly say the actual institution was racist. :)but I am being told that the policemans views are such because he is a racist.....which he isn't he is a really nice chap who told me about something that he encounters during the course of his job. Thats all.

Womble

20-10-2003, 22:26

mmm, been reading your posts, all very passionate.
Consider a few points
Ask your self why are the polices racist?. Is it because most of the grief they get comes from "minority" groups.
I had a friend who worked in Brixton nick as a civvy, the ethnics account for 1/3 of the population in Brixton but commit 87% of the crime. People stereotype-fact, live with it!.
Also, you think the white people here are racist, try visiting these eastern european countries!!, just ask the black footballers in the english team!.
Also, with immigration your missing the point, the govement are letting these people in to deliberatly force the wages of the common man down. Building sites hire Albanians etc for half as much as they pay an Englishman (Note; I am not suggesting colour here, I have black mates who call themselves English!). The BNP suck and are just preying on peoples fears, but if the mainstream politicle parties do not do something to stem the tide of new immigrants to this country then the rise of these sick extreme parties will continue!!. There is growing resentment amomg the silent majority, and unfortunatley, the BNP appears to be a voice for them. Take Croydon for example, its awash with eastern europeans, and to fund it the council have increased there council tax by 135%!!, and they wonder why there is resentment!, even the blacks in Croydon are getting edgy!.
The BNP is not the answer though

Womble

20-10-2003, 22:27

please excuse my many spelling and gramaticle errors

Ramrod

20-10-2003, 22:29

Niles Crane

20-10-2003, 22:36

well please tell me again, I am genuinly all at sea here.

As i said: My point being, would the policeman be so quick to make such abrupt comments if it affected him? - his profession is a policeman.

and since pakistan is mainly populated by pakistanis.....

Yes, and since Pakistan has a very high population and all the corruption in the statistics is based on the middle class ie those with power then the statistics dont reflect Pakistani's in general. Especially as i assume when we say "Pakistani" we're also including expatriates.

please spell it out to me then, stop messing about.

If you cant understand what it has to do with the discussion already, then no amount of spelling will help.

The fact that white males are more likely to be paedophiles

Theres no conclusive evidence to prove the above statement true.

black male Nigerians (for instance) are more likely to commit fraud.

Same as above.

You need to understand the difference:
Because Nigerians may commit more fraud, does not mean a Nigerian is any more likely to commit fraud over a Cameroonian. Being Nigerian doesnt automatically up the chance.
And because white males may commit more acts of peadophillia, does not mean a white male is any more likely to over a black male. Being white and male doesnt automatically up the chance.
That goes back to my comment before, which you couldnt comphrehend earlier.

Do you accept that Germans drink lots of beer?

Not really. Certainly no more than the average country. This is a weird example you've given..........you'd be better saying Americans or Irishmen ;)

Ramrod

20-10-2003, 22:36

You should have asked him which profession was most likely to eat donuts or take bribes. What would his answer have been then?Probably the same as mine, whats your point?

And by the way, your comments are interesting (or rather, the way you worded them in order to propogate your opinion). Why would he say "Oh God yes!" unless you'd already suggested Nigerians? I'm just saying what he said. Secondly, you ought to spell God with a capital G. picky, picky, picky. Thirdly, there is no such thing as a Nigerian ethnic group. and ...picky Fourthly, "just ask any dss fraud investigator!" - yeah, because they just happen to be around reguarly. I've met a few! Whats your point? Either the cop is a stereotypical moron, so it's allrigth to insult a policeman? you're exaggerating and/or bull****ing totally or pigs have begun to fly (pardon the pun)...... So you are saying I'm lying?:afire:

Niles Crane

20-10-2003, 22:38

So you are saying that I'm a liar?

No, i'm saying that i think you are - it doesnt mean you actually are. Theres that comphrehension thing again ;)

Niles Crane

20-10-2003, 22:41

so it's allrigth to insult a policeman?

Yes, why wouldnt it be?

Ramrod

20-10-2003, 22:44

No, i'm saying that i think you are - it doesnt mean you actually are. Theres that comphrehension thing again ;)Picky again. You say that you think that I am a liar. So in effect you are saying that I am a liar. In addition you are taking the mick. If you have run out of decent arguments just say so.

Ramrod

20-10-2003, 22:45

Yes, why wouldnt it be?Are you serious that it's allright to insult a policeman?

Womble

20-10-2003, 22:49

Just out of cusiosity, wher do you live Ezenden??

Womble

20-10-2003, 22:50

oops, another typo error

Ramrod

20-10-2003, 22:54

As i said: My point being, would the policeman be so quick to make such abrupt comments if it affected him? - his profession is a policeman. He would be quick to say that there are racist elements in the force.

Yes, and since Pakistan has a very high population and all the corruption in the statistics is based on the middle class ie those with power then the statistics dont reflect Pakistani's in general. Especially as i assume when we say "Pakistani" we're also including expatriates.That really is squirming. So you are now saying that middle class Pakistanis (in Pakistan) are the most corrupt people in the world?

If you cant understand what it has to do with the discussion already, then no amount of spelling will help. Nevertheless, please try.

Theres no conclusive evidence to prove the above statement true. Come off it, of course white males are more likely to be paedophiles. . You were trying to get me to say that in the first place. Don't backpedal on me here.

You need to understand the difference:
Because Nigerians may commit more fraud, does not mean a Nigerian is any more likely to commit fraud over a Cameroonian. Being Nigerian doesnt automatically up the chance.
And because white males may commit more acts of peadophillia, does not mean a white male is any more likely to over a black male. Being white and male doesnt automatically up the chance.
That goes back to my comment before, which you couldnt comphrehend earlier. I know, taken as an individual no person is more likely to do anything more than another. Statistics 101. But taken as a group, which is what we are talking about, things are different.

Not really. Certainly no more than the average country. This is a weird example you've given..........you'd be better saying Americans or Irishmen ;) Fine, lets say Americans or Irishmen....

Ramrod

20-10-2003, 22:57

Anyhow Ezenden, I'm off to play a spot of Mohaa before bed. Argue some more tomorrow.

Night all:)

Niles Crane

20-10-2003, 22:58

Picky again. You say that you think that I am a liar. So in effect you are saying that I am a liar. In addition you are taking the mick. If you have run out of decent arguments just say so.

You can call it picky all you want. But those differences, erm make the world of difference. If i meant to say you're a liar, i would have. I specifically use my words pedantically for this precise reason.

Are you serious that it's allright to insult a policeman?

On duty, without provocation? No.
On duty, with provocation? Yes.
Off duty, yes. Now either your policeman client (assuming he exists ;)) was off duty, or he really is a moron by taking liberties while he's being paid to work - paid with our money i might add ;).

Niles Crane

20-10-2003, 23:30

That really is squirming. So you are now saying that middle class Pakistanis (in Pakistan) are the most corrupt people in the world?

That really is ignoring my answer and responding with another question.
I'm saying that the middle class (those with power, as already said - the minority of Pakistanis) are the ones which make up most of the corruption in Pakistan. Which is why Pakistanis as a people cannot be considered corrupt. Which is what i said before, and answers your original question.

Nevertheless, please try.

See below for a sarcastic answer. If you're intelligent enough, which i should think you are, then you'll work it out.

Come off it, of course white males are more likely to be paedophiles. . You were trying to get me to say that in the first place.

Erm, no i wasnt. I was giving an example of what its like when the shoe is on the other foot.

I know, taken as an individual no person is more likely to do anything more than another. Statistics 101. But taken as a group, which is what we are talking about, things are different.

Well thats mostly my point. So why did you question it when i said it before?
But unfortunetly, some people find it hard to differentiate between a group and an individual.

Fine, lets say Americans or Irishmen....

Huh? Whats that got to do with anything?

Heres another clue (infact, the answer): double standards.

aliferste

21-10-2003, 08:34

aliferste

21-10-2003, 08:56

Where has Defiant gone?

I want to know more about these "vaults" !!!

Defiant

21-10-2003, 10:41

Where has Defiant gone?

I want to know more about these "vaults" !!!

Go to any true British pub and you have a vualt entrance and a lounge entrance. They dont have them abroad thats what must have thrown you

Ramrod

21-10-2003, 12:04

You can call it picky all you want. But those differences, erm make the world of difference. If i meant to say you're a liar, i would have. I specifically use my words pedantically for this precise reason. So you think I am lying...thanks:rolleyes:

On duty, without provocation? No.
On duty, with provocation? Yes.
Off duty, yes. Now either your policeman client (assuming he exists ;)) was off duty, or he really is a moron by taking liberties while he's being paid to work - paid with our money i might add ;). He was off duty (as all my patients are when they see me)
So you are insulting him without ever meeting him and getting to know him, on the basis of a report about police as a whole. But you, on the other hand, think I am wrong to say that Nigerians seem to be involved in a lot of fraud? Note, I am not saying that all Nigerians are involved in fraud or even that a majority are. Just that a lot of cases of fraud here involve Nigerians.

Ramrod

21-10-2003, 12:07

About racict elements in the police

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3174810.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/3208678.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/3208310.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3209606.stm

Oh dear on dear........just wait till you see what is going to be on th enews tonight !It is terrible, but that does not make the officer that I am talking about a racist and neither does it dispel the observation that Nigerians seem to go in for more than their fair share of fraud.

Niles Crane

21-10-2003, 12:43

So you think I am lying...thanks:rolleyes:

Yes, as i've already said. Please stop making me repeat myself, its incredibly tedious, and i'm surprised you even care what i think.

He was off duty (as all my patients are when they see me)
So you are insulting him without ever meeting him and getting to know him, on the basis of a report about police as a whole. But you, on the other hand, think I am wrong to say that Nigerians seem to be involved in a lot of fraud? Note, I am not saying that all Nigerians are involved in fraud or even that a majority are. Just that a lot of cases of fraud here involve Nigerians.

No, i'm insulting him based on what he said (or what you infact said, he said). But as i doubt he even exists, and if he does exist then i doubt he said what you claim then its pretty irrelevant. I doubt he said what you claim because i doubt a policeman (a competent one) would speak in such a tone and manner. Unless they were speaking in private to a close friend.

"Oh god yes! Nigerians, they're notorious for fraud Just ask any dss fraud investigator!" - these are not the words of a competent, intelligent or mature policeman.

aliferste

21-10-2003, 12:45

Go to any true British pub and you have a vualt entrance and a lounge entrance. They dont have them abroad thats what must have thrown you

What are you talking about? I go into British pubs all the time....none of them have vaults!!

Ramrod

21-10-2003, 13:04

Yes, as i've already said. Please stop making me repeat myself, its incredibly tedious, and i'm surprised you even care what i think.:rolleyes:

No, i'm insulting him based on what he said (or what you infact said, he said). But as i doubt he even exists, and if he does exist then i doubt he said what you claim then its pretty irrelevant. I doubt he said what you claim because i doubt a policeman (a competent one) would speak in such a tone and manner. Unless they were speaking in private to a close friend.

"Oh god yes! Nigerians, they're notorious for fraud Just ask any dss fraud investigator!" - these are not the words of a competent, intelligent or mature policeman. He was just speaking as he saw it, and yes, I have known him for a few years.
I don't understand why It's allright to say something like 'white males seem to make up the largest section of paedophiles' But it's not all right to make a comment (based on experience) about Nigerians and fraud!
....and it's all right for you to say that Pakistan is the most corrupt country on earth (even if it is just the 'middle class Pakistanis')
....and it's all right for you to tar allpolicemen with the same brush.
It seems as if it's one rule for you and another one for me!

Defiant

21-10-2003, 13:11

What are you talking about? I go into British pubs all the time....none of them have vaults!!

Then their must not be any old style pubs were you live

aliferste

21-10-2003, 13:12

Ramrod.....do YOU know what Defiant is going on about with these "vaults"
Now hes talking about going on holiday abroad......usually i find in spain and places like that the pubs are kinda similar......stools and stuff.....sometimes you get karaoke rooms ~shudder~ but no "Vaults"

I need this cleared up about these "vaults" in intriged.......I go down to Birmingham a lot and go to pubs there and have never seen this "vault" phenomenon!!

A quick search on google found

http://images.google.com/images?q=vaults&ie=ISO-8859-1&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search

Which pretty much summed up what i thought......although i thought they should be abit more gritty!!!

Stuart

21-10-2003, 13:15

Then their must not be any old style pubs were you live
They all are round here. One of the pubs I drink in has a sign proudly proclaiming it to have opened in 1645. Maybe it's a Salford/Manchester thing, we just don't seem to get them around London.

aliferste

21-10-2003, 13:15

Eh???

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=pub+%2B+vault+entrance&btnG=Google+Search

nothing there !!!!

aliferste

21-10-2003, 13:16

They all are round here. One of the pubs I drink in has a sign proudly proclaiming it to have opened in 1645. Maybe it's a Salford/Manchester thing, we just don't seem to get them around London.

Does it have a "vault" ???

Shaun

21-10-2003, 13:24

Then their must not be any old style pubs were you live

We have a pub called the Vaults in town, but not every pub has them, not even in my mums village where the pubs are 300+ years old :cool:

Chris

21-10-2003, 13:27

We have a pub called the Vaults in town, but not every pub has them, not even in my mums village where the pubs are 300+ years old :cool:
I've never heard of 'vaults' in connection with pubs.

I've certainly never heard of them in connection with the BNP ... this is that off topic thing again isn't it? Can I talk about roses again? ;)

Defiant

21-10-2003, 13:29

The vaults tend to be the rooms were the pool table and darts are

Niles Crane

21-10-2003, 13:36

:rolleyes:

He was just speaking as he saw it, and yes, I have known him for a few years.
I don't understand why It's allright to say something like 'white males seem to make up the largest section of paedophiles' But it's not all right to make a comment (based on experience) about Nigerians and fraud!
....and it's all right for you to say that Pakistan is the most corrupt country on earth (even if it is just the 'middle class Pakistanis')
....and it's all right for you to tar allpolicemen with the same brush.
It seems as if it's one rule for you and another one for me!

Firstly, its not alright to say something like white blah blah and not about Nigerians blah blah. If you bother to read my posts, you'd realise i've been refuting both and never said it was even wrong to say either in the first place.
And when i asked the question about paedophiles, this was the exact response i expected - finally, you've delivered. That response being an attitude of victimisation and unfairness. Even though i'm not making any double standards at all, you've finally decided to take the "its not fair" and "why are you attacking me?" attitude when comments, which can be taken as offensive, are directly related to YOU.
If the first thing anybody said was "whites are likely to be paedophiles", you and many others, would have made the exact same "its so unfair,i shouldnt be victim to this" speech. THAT is why you're complaining about invisible double standards, in order to try and enhance your feelings of victimisation.

Pakistan is the most corrupt country on earth, and theres facts to prove it. Find me facts to prove Nigerians are more likely to commit fraud and white males are more likely to be paedophiles.

Where have i tared policeman with the same brush? I havent. But if you're referring to alis, then in that case you're tarring him and me with the same brush! The very same hypocrisy you're complaining about!

No, you imagine its one rule for me and one rule for you - even when its clearly not, because it propogates your own agenda. Its the exact same tactic the BNP use.

Ramrod

21-10-2003, 13:44

Ramrod

21-10-2003, 13:58

Firstly, its not alright to say something like white blah blah and not about Nigerians blah blah. If you bother to read my posts, you'd realise i've been refuting both and never said it was even wrong to say either in the first place. So if you have never said that it's wrong to say so, why are we arguing?

And when i asked the question about paedophiles, this was the exact response i expected - finally, you've delivered. That response being an attitude of victimisation and unfairness. My response (about white males being bore likely to be paedophiles)was not made with an attitude of victimization! It's a statement of fact. The fact that I also happen to be a white male is neither here nor there. I don't feel put upon because white males may be seen as the main perpetrators of paedophilia. Why should I?

Even though i'm not making any double standards at all, you've finally decided to take the "its not fair" and "why are you attacking me?" attitude when comments, which can be taken as offensive, are directly related to YOU. I am feeling put upon because you seem to be taking offence at my comment about Nigerian fraudsters whilst simultaneously judging the entire police force and one officer in paticular.

If the first thing anybody said was "whites are likely to be paedophiles", you and many others, would have made the exact same "its so unfair,i shouldnt be victim to this" speech. THAT is why you're complaining about invisible double standards, in order to try and enhance your feelings of victimisation. What?! If someone started a thread like that I, for one, would agree with it! I do not feel remotely victimised bt the claim that most paedophiles are white males. Why should I? If I did I would just be burying my head in the sand.

Pakistan is the most corrupt country on earth, and theres facts to prove it. and that country is run by pakistanis (irrespective of their class) Find me facts to prove Nigerians are more likely to commit fraud and white males are more likely to be paedophiles. I will have a bash at it.

Where have i tared policeman with the same brush? I havent. But if you're referring to alis, then in that case you're tarring him and me with the same brush! The very same hypocrisy you're complaining about!
You are quite right, it was aliferste:"You see, what i was insinuating was that the police are institutionally racist anyway, therefore no wonder a policeman would come out with a statement like that.....you see now??"
"I dont need to assume anything..........the Macpherson report backs me up :)
Dont think anything had really moved forward since then !"

Ramrod

21-10-2003, 14:05

Nigerians trying to repair their world image (http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3148889.stm)
nigerian gov warning of fraud (http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/25394.html)
'fraud is a way of life for nigerians' (http://www.netscalped.com/_disc4/000005d8.htm)
read the second to last sentence in the comment (http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/nm58/comp.htm) by umberto gui

I have been looking for the white male paedophile bit and as yet I cannot find anything. I am not looking any longer as it is a not very nice search and I dont really want to read any more about it.

basa

21-10-2003, 14:07

I have no idea what he's on about. Sorry.:shrug:

"Vaults" in relation to public houses........it used to be room, as Defiant said, where the darts and pool were. It was usually located in one corner or at the back of the pub. It is not in any way connected to the Google searches 'vaults' in that it was not underground or had curved roof structures !!

The room was generally men only :shocked: very basic decor with no carpet, where the seasoned beer (no lager please !) drinkers congregated. The term is rarely used nowadays. Another term to describe similar rooms would be the 'tap room'.

How either of these terms came into being I cannot determine. I used to spend most of my formative drinking years in 'vaults', but that was forty years ago !!

Niles Crane

21-10-2003, 14:41

So if you have never said that it's wrong to say so, why are we arguing?

For the sake of it i expect.

I am feeling put upon because you seem to be taking offence at my comment about Nigerian fraudsters whilst simultaneously judging the entire police force and one officer in paticular.

I didnt take offense to it at all. I questioned it by making clear; merely because Nigerians may disproportionately commit more fraud, does not mean a Nigerian is more likely to commit fraud than the next man - which is what you said.

Ramrod, none of those links prove what i've been arguing: Nigerians are more likely to commit fraud.

and that country is run by pakistanis (irrespective of their class)

When Nigeria was still under British rule, it was run by the British - and it was just as corrupt, infact more so then. Did that make the Nigerians under British rule corrupt? No.

Ramrod

21-10-2003, 14:56

I didnt take offense to it at all. I questioned it by making clear; merely because Nigerians may disproportionately commit more fraud, does not mean a Nigerian is more likely to commit fraud than the next man - which is what you said. This is the first time I mentioned the subject:" I'm saying that a fair few Nigerians go in for fraud"
Not that all of them do! I never said that, I have been at great pains not to say that, in fact I have pointed out that it's not the case that they all are fraudsters.

Ramrod, none of those links prove what i've been arguing: Nigerians are more likely to commit fraud. eh? read what you just wrote. say that again?

When Nigeria was still under British rule, it was run by the British - and it was just as corrupt, infact more so then. Did that make the Nigerians under British rule corrupt? No.So you are saying that Nigeria is corrupt!
So what's wrong with me saying that Nigerians seem to go in for a lot of fraud?

basa

21-10-2003, 14:58

When Nigeria was still under British rule, it was run by the British - and it was just as corrupt, infact more so then. Did that make the Nigerians under British rule corrupt? No.

This seems to be an odd conclusion ??......

If Nigeria was corrupt under British rule and is still corrupt now under Nigerian rule, that would seem to prove to me that it is indeed the Nigerians (the constant) who are corrupt :confused:

Ramrod

21-10-2003, 15:00

Ramrod, none of those links prove what i've been arguing: Nigerians are more likely to commit fraud.

.Not even the last one?
Or how about the fact that the Nigerian government is taking out newspaper ads to warn people about Nigerian fraudsters?

Niles Crane

21-10-2003, 15:29

I have been at great pains not to say that

You failed:

"open your eyes to the possibility that black male Nigerians (for instance) are more likely to commit fraud."
And your copper conversation:
"I asked him if any ethnic group was more likely to be found commiting fraud here and he instantly replied: "Oh god yes! Nigerians, they're notorious for fraud Just ask any dss fraud investigator!"

eh? read what you just wrote. say that again?

I meant arguing against.

So you are saying that Nigeria is corrupt!

I've lived in Nigeria.........yes i am bloody well saying Nigeria is corrupt country.

So what's wrong with me saying that Nigerians seem to go in for a lot of fraud?

Theres that victimisation mentality again. NOTHING. And i never said there was. Sheesh.

If Nigeria was corrupt under British rule and is still corrupt now under Nigerian rule, that would seem to prove to me that it is indeed the Nigerians (the constant) who are corrupt

Thats a pretty poor logic, especially seeing as the Nigerians under British rule werent the corrupt ones. Therefore, the Nigerians in your statement are not a constant. If the above simple, narrow logic is all it takes to prove something to you, then God help us all.
And its the British who instilled corruption in the culture of Nigeria, which is part and parcel of the current state of Nigeria. But thats a whole different debate entirely.

Or how about the fact that the Nigerian government is taking out newspaper ads to warn people about Nigerian fraudsters?

You say as a group, white males are more likely to commit acts of peadophillia.
So going by your logic above, because the British dont advertise warnings to people about white, male, hetrosexual paedophiles then that proves white, male, hetrosexuals as a group arent more likely to commit acts of paedophillia.
And the Nigerian government warn people about Nigerian fraudsters, because Nigerian fraud is a big problem and Nigerians, proportionately commit more fraud. None of this proves that any ethnic group is more likely to commit fraud. Especially, as i've already said; there is no Nigerian ethnic group.

timewarrior2001

21-10-2003, 15:57

im so happy the BNP has lost 2 seats in the by-elections in lancashire and halifax yorkshire

Admin Edit <Steve_NTL> Provocotive comments removed, please refrain from posting abuse in here, Thanks.

:2up: :2up: :2up:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/3199144.stmOk I havent read through this entire thread nor do i plan to.

I dont see what the big deal is, even Labour is losing votes. The fact still remains that not all the voters for the BNP are racist, its a dangerous tag to put on someone. I wouldnt dare call say a Muslim in Britain (MIB Party) racist, even if they were preaching that they should be given priority over the British in every matter.
At the end of the day a vote for the BNP is more about showing displeasure to the Labour gov about its immigration policy. Yes I am getting a little sick and tired of these so called immigrants, I dont for one minute think all of them are undeserving of sanctuary in the UK, but I do think that a high percentage are not fit to live here, not legally entitled to live here and as a result shouldnt be here.
People often see the treatment these immigrants are getting, let me tell you a little story about an old folks home here in my town of Billingham, Teesside shall I?

An old folks home which is approx 1/2 a mile away from my house, I pass it every day. The old people were shipped out, moved to god knows where, probably anywhere that could accomodate them. These old people often had to sell their houses to pay for care in their choice of nursing home. This nursing home had not been re-fitted in the 27 years I have lived in billingham. Now theres no old folk in there, its getting double glazing, completely re-fitted (th ebuilding is just a shell atm). For what? can you guess yet? Yes these so badly done to immigrants are given preference for accomodation there. What I want to know is what happened to the old people, why were they turfed out of their home, why did they HAVE to move?

This is the reason parties like the BNP get votes, this is the reason there is the starting of a backlash against so called "do gooders". This is what makes me physically sick, not only does it disturb me, it appalls me, I think its disgusting and should be stopped. Fine let immigrants into the country but do not put their needs before the needs of the citizens already here, the citizens that have lived here for 60, 70 80 or even 90 years, the citizens that had to sacrifice a hell of a lot in the 1940's that have endured their own fair share of hardships in their lifetimes.

I'm going to quit this rant now, I just hope I have managed to let everyone know how utterly disgusted and appalled I am, this incident has left me numb, I have so much anger over it I dread to think what the racist element will do, I think thye will be more angry than me.

aliferste

21-10-2003, 16:10

"Vaults" in relation to public houses........it used to be room, as Defiant said, where the darts and pool were. It was usually located in one corner or at the back of the pub. It is not in any way connected to the Google searches 'vaults' in that it was not underground or had curved roof structures !!

The room was generally men only :shocked: very basic decor with no carpet, where the seasoned beer (no lager please !) drinkers congregated. The term is rarely used nowadays. Another term to describe similar rooms would be the 'tap room'.

How either of these terms came into being I cannot determine. I used to spend most of my formative drinking years in 'vaults', but that was forty years ago !!

Well, at least THAT is cleared up..........now about that abroad part........

Scotland is DIRECTLY North of England.....and we are in fact part of Britain :)

aliferste

21-10-2003, 16:14

Ok I havent read through this entire thread nor do i plan to.

An old folks home which is approx 1/2 a mile away from my house, I pass it every day. The old people were shipped out, moved to god knows where, probably anywhere that could accomodate them. These old people often had to sell their houses to pay for care in their choice of nursing home. This nursing home had not been re-fitted in the 27 years I have lived in billingham. Now theres no old folk in there, its getting double glazing, completely re-fitted (th ebuilding is just a shell atm). For what? can you guess yet? Yes these so badly done to immigrants are given preference for accomodation there. What I want to know is what happened to the old people, why were they turfed out of their home, why did they HAVE to move?

Get me the name of the Nursing Home please.......or why dont you get involved if you are angry about it....go to your loal tenents group and ask them...you may be surprised by what you hear :)

...... this is the reason there is the starting of a backlash against so called "do gooders".

UM, I wish i knew who the people you are meaning when you say "do gooders"?
Who are you talking about?

aliferste

21-10-2003, 16:16

Not even the last one?
Or how about the fact that the Nigerian government is taking out newspaper ads to warn people about Nigerian fraudsters?

ok OK......lets stop going on about Nigerians..........that fact is ...in this country they do not commit the fraud against us!!

They prey on people from far away ..........people who are greedy and think they can make a fast buck out of someones else misfortune!!!!

downquark1

21-10-2003, 21:30

Is anyone watching the program about racist policemen on BBC1 now?

Chris

21-10-2003, 21:43

Is anyone watching the program about racist policemen on BBC1 now?

errr...no, I'm sitting in front of my computer replying to you .... ;)

downquark1

21-10-2003, 21:54

errr...no, I'm sitting in front of my computer replying to you .... ;)Some people may have a tv in the computer room :rolleyes: or nearby.

The guy on now, bald, bad mouthed and chewing. They actually can't be bothered beeping all the f words but still do c***.

Ramrod

21-10-2003, 22:27

You failed:

"open your eyes to the possibility that black male Nigerians (for instance) are more likely to commit fraud."
And your copper conversation:
"I asked him if any ethnic group was more likely to be found commiting fraud here and he instantly replied: "Oh god yes! Nigerians, they're notorious for fraud Just ask any dss fraud investigator!" erm....I didn't say that, the policeman did....

Theres that victimisation mentality again. NOTHING. And i never said there was. Sheesh. but if we both agree, what are we arguing about?

Thats a pretty poor logic, especially seeing as the Nigerians under British rule werent the corrupt ones. Therefore, the Nigerians in your statement are not a constant. If the above simple, narrow logic is all it takes to prove something to you, then God help us all.
And its the British who instilled corruption in the culture of Nigeria, which is part and parcel of the current state of Nigeria. But thats a whole different debate entirely.I never said that, basa did...

You say as a group, white males are more likely to commit acts of peadophillia.
So going by your logic above, because the British dont advertise warnings to people about white, male, hetrosexual paedophiles then that proves white, male, hetrosexuals as a group arent more likely to commit acts of paedophillia.No, you are mixing up two different points. A government issuing a warning about the conduct of some of it's people implies that there is a problem with the conduct of some of it's people. The fact that another government dosn't issue a warning does not imply that there isn't a problem, it just means that it isn't being highlited by that government.
And the Nigerian government warn people about Nigerian fraudsters, because Nigerian fraud is a big problem and Nigerians, proportionately commit more fraud. Thank you for finally admitting that!
None of this proves that any ethnic group is more likely to commit fraud. Especially, as i've already said; there is no Nigerian ethnic group. Ah, I think I see why you are getting hot under the collar. Do you think I am coming at this from a genetic point of view? :rofl:

Ramrod

21-10-2003, 22:30

Some people may have a tv in the computer room :rolleyes: or nearby.

.I have my 'puter in the front room so I can watch tv, surf and talk to my wife as well:)

Ramrod

21-10-2003, 22:32

ok OK......lets stop going on about Nigerians..........that fact is ...in this country they do not commit the fraud against us!!

err...they do you know. DSS, credit card...etc

Niles Crane

21-10-2003, 22:34

Ramrod, i'm bored, tired and depressed. This discussion is coming to an end.

erm....I didn't say that, the policeman did....

You asked the question "if any ethnic group was more likely to be found commiting fraud".

but if we both agree, what are we arguing about?

Nothing, which is why this is ending.

never said that, basa did...

I know, i was speaking to basa.

A government issuing a warning about the conduct of some of it's people implies that there is a problem with the conduct of some of it's people.

Obviously, as i've already said.

Tank you for finally admitting that!

I've always admitted it and have never denied it.

Do you think I am coming at this from a genetic point of view?

Considering your wording, is that not obvious - "if any ethnic group was more likely". Thats the point i made at the very beginning and have been talking about ever since.

Ramrod

21-10-2003, 22:43

Ramrod, i'm bored, tired and depressed. This discussion is coming to an end.lol, me too.:)

You asked the question "if any ethnic group was more likely to be found commiting fraud". If I phrased that Incorrectly please accept my apologies.

I've always admitted it and have never denied it. You have never admitted it until your last post!

Considering your wording, is that not obvious - "if any ethnic group was more likely". Thats the point i made at the very beginning and have been talking about ever since.:rofl: How the hell could you think that? My giddy aunt! Anyhoo....I am sorry about the misunderstanding. A very good lesson to be more exact in my phrasing.:)
Still.....it's been fun!

Defiant

24-10-2003, 11:05

ASYLUM: 15,000 FAMILIES TO STAY IN UK

Up to 15,000 families who sought asylum in the UK more than three years ago will be allowed to stay in the UK indefinitely, Home Secretary David Blunkett has said.

More good news for the do gooders and more blood on the hands of the goverment when it kicks off

Ramrod

24-10-2003, 11:52

....but we don't know the full story Defiant. Do you have a link?

Steve H

24-10-2003, 12:05

Ok I havent read through this entire thread nor do i plan to.

I dont see what the big deal is, even Labour is losing votes. The fact still remains that not all the voters for the BNP are racist, its a dangerous tag to put on someone. I wouldnt dare call say a Muslim in Britain (MIB Party) racist, even if they were preaching that they should be given priority over the British in every matter.
At the end of the day a vote for the BNP is more about showing displeasure to the Labour gov about its immigration policy. Yes I am getting a little sick and tired of these so called immigrants, I dont for one minute think all of them are undeserving of sanctuary in the UK, but I do think that a high percentage are not fit to live here, not legally entitled to live here and as a result shouldnt be here.
People often see the treatment these immigrants are getting, let me tell you a little story about an old folks home here in my town of Billingham, Teesside shall I?

An old folks home which is approx 1/2 a mile away from my house, I pass it every day. The old people were shipped out, moved to god knows where, probably anywhere that could accomodate them. These old people often had to sell their houses to pay for care in their choice of nursing home. This nursing home had not been re-fitted in the 27 years I have lived in billingham. Now theres no old folk in there, its getting double glazing, completely re-fitted (th ebuilding is just a shell atm). For what? can you guess yet? Yes these so badly done to immigrants are given preference for accomodation there. What I want to know is what happened to the old people, why were they turfed out of their home, why did they HAVE to move?

This is the reason parties like the BNP get votes, this is the reason there is the starting of a backlash against so called "do gooders". This is what makes me physically sick, not only does it disturb me, it appalls me, I think its disgusting and should be stopped. Fine let immigrants into the country but do not put their needs before the needs of the citizens already here, the citizens that have lived here for 60, 70 80 or even 90 years, the citizens that had to sacrifice a hell of a lot in the 1940's that have endured their own fair share of hardships in their lifetimes.

I'm going to quit this rant now, I just hope I have managed to let everyone know how utterly disgusted and appalled I am, this incident has left me numb, I have so much anger over it I dread to think what the racist element will do, I think thye will be more angry than me.

Nice Post Timewarrior, Was on the same lines as what I wanted to post. Makes me feel pyshically sick that our elderley folk get shipped out, When they fought for this country in the World War, to allow these immigrants into the country..

Tell me, Who should come first? (Honestly please)

Defiant

24-10-2003, 12:13

....but we don't know the full story Defiant. Do you have a link?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3210605.stm

The full story is this is not the first time they have done this and it wont be the last

Stuart

24-10-2003, 12:13

....but we don't know the full story Defiant. Do you have a link?http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_831886.html

or

http://icberkshire.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/nationalnews/content_objectid=13551654_method=full_siteid=50102 _headline=-15-000-asylum-families-can-stay-in-UK-name_page.html

or

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/10/24/uasylum.xml&sSheet=/portal/2003/10/24/ixportaltop.html

It appears the government is doing it to try and save money.

aliferste

24-10-2003, 16:10

More good news for the do gooders and more blood on the hands of the goverment when it kicks off

Jeepers......you seem to have this impression that there is going to be some kind of bloodbath or something :rolleyes:

When what kicks off?

Chris

24-10-2003, 16:12

Jeepers......you seem to have this impression that there is going to be some kind of bloodbath or something :rolleyes:

When what kicks off?
I'm starting to think Defiant was Enoch Powell in a former life.

Defiant

24-10-2003, 16:17

I'm starting to think Defiant was Enoch Powell in a former life.

Has he been proven wrong

Steve H

24-10-2003, 17:43

Jeepers......you seem to have this impression that there is going to be some kind of bloodbath or something :rolleyes:

When what kicks off?

When all the British kick off, Cos' there fed up :rolleyes:

aliferste

25-10-2003, 14:29

When all the British kick off, Cos' there fed up :rolleyes:

By doing what?

Defiant

25-10-2003, 14:45

By doing what?

What do you think Einstein

Shaun

25-10-2003, 15:51

What do you think Einstein

Defiant, you cant come up with any answers to the questions we've put to you, I'm not being rude, but do you know what your talking about? :blah:

Defiant

25-10-2003, 15:57

Defiant, you cant come up with any answers to the questions we've put to you, I'm not being rude, but do you know what your talking about? :blah:

I know what's going on around my area yes thanks as for you trying to pretend there's nothing wrong.

I bet that story about the 60 thousand immigrants being allowed to stay cheered you up. You know the one’s that were supposed to be fecked of back home

Shaun

25-10-2003, 16:06

I know what's going on around my area yes thanks as for you trying to pretend there's nothing wrong.

I bet that story about the 60 thousand immigrants being allowed to stay cheered you up. You know the oneÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡Ãƒâ€šÃ ‚Â¬ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¾Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¢s that were supposed to be fecked of back home

D, this is what I mean, I've never stated that I think large numbers of people should be allowed to settle her, I have agreed with you about the fact that we need to tighten the laws, and change the way things are done. That isn't the issue here (well at the start of the thread anyway) it is that you vote for the BNP in the belief that they will change things.

I have repeatedly asked you HOW they intend to do this, what measures they will put in place and what it is that they will do differently to the Labour party, who ARE attempting to change the laws?

You still haven't given us any answers and you repeatedly post things like those quoted above, this doesn't further your cause, and makes people like me question if you know what you are on about or if you are trolling.

Please can you answer the questions I people have repeatedly asked??

edit - an apology would be nice too

Defiant

25-10-2003, 16:40

D, this is what I mean, I've never stated that I think large numbers of people should be allowed to settle her, I have agreed with you about the fact that we need to tighten the laws, and change the way things are done. That isn't the issue here (well at the start of the thread anyway) it is that you vote for the BNP in the belief that they will change things.

I have repeatedly asked you HOW they intend to do this, what measures they will put in place and what it is that they will do differently to the Labour party, who ARE attempting to change the laws?

You still haven't given us any answers and you repeatedly post things like those quoted above, this doesn't further your cause, and makes people like me question if you know what you are on about or if you are trolling.

Please can you answer the questions I people have repeatedly asked??

edit - an apology would be nice too

One Labour has done nothing but allow more and more scroungers in

Two shutting the frontdoor for good on scrounger's. Only allowing people in here that can support themselve's or have skill's to add to our work pool

Anything else I'm not that bothered about. Check out their website I just wont this door shut.

PS I think it will kick off in France or Austria before here but we wont be far behind them

EDIT an apology for what. You can't check out website's ?

aliferste

25-10-2003, 16:53

What do you think Einstein

Defiant......I honestly dont know? What ARE you going to do? moan some more on this forum?

OR THIS

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2003/10/6.jpg

Defiant

25-10-2003, 16:57

Defiant......I honestly dont know? What ARE you going to do? moan some more on this forum?

OR THIS

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2003/10/6.jpg

Wow you managed to find a picture Einstein very clever but thats a racist thing and I have nothing again'st colour, other countrys etc only this one being flooded by scroungers

aliferste

25-10-2003, 17:03

Wow you managed to find a picture Einstein very clever but thats a racist thing and I have nothing again'st colour, other countrys etc only this one being flooded by scroungers

So please tell me how it will "kick off"

Honestly then.....TELL ME!!!!!

WHAT will you DO to have your voice heard???

Ive told you time and time again why people seek asylum in this country.......you are now talking about people and skills coming to this country!

Have you actually got a clue??

Escapee

25-10-2003, 18:37

Well here's my 2 pence worth, and I guess I will probably end up with the term racist thrown at me again when that is untrue.

I think as others have said the BNP have gained seats because the majority of people in this country look at people working on the minimum wage and getting by only to see money thrown at people who seek asylum in this country. Many asylum seekers make the extra effort to get to the UK because they are wrongly under the impression that the streets are paved with gold.

I just say things as I see them, and a person scrounging/cheating the system of money that you and I paid in are all the same as far as I am concerned. Now before you all go ands flame me I would like to say that I realise there are genuine cases of people persecuted in other countries, I am personally involved with someone from a country (South Africa) who has seen it from the other side with people being beaten on the streets and families putting their money together to get the younger generation ou of that terrible mess. This person has had their own family memebers arrested and on one occassion apparently tortured and killed by the government, which was apparently a common occurance for anyone who did not stand in line.

BTW this friend is not a scrounger/assylum seeker, she is in this country paying a large amount of money each year to study at university. she does however not agree with the way this government is allowing hoards of people into this country, and she confirmed as a foreigner herself that the opinion is that the UK is paved with gold. She has a relative working for the local authority in London dealing with asylum seekers and she has many stories to tell, including that a large number are actually working in factories using forged National Insurance numbers. It is claimed that the government is turning a blind eye to this practice and they are not worried because of the shortage of factory sweatshop fodder and they are getting the Tax and NI from these employers/employees anyway, so why would they care?

The failure of government in this country to act effieiently in these matters is the main reason that parties like the BNP get votes. I guess many of you noticed that the government kept saying that there was not a problem with asylum seekers, and then turned around and have admitted how bad things are when they could not keep it under wraps any longer.

The namby pamby doo-gooders are playing into the BNP's hands :eeek:

Shaun

25-10-2003, 18:49

The failure of government in this country to act effieiently in these matters is the main reason that parties like the BNP get votes................................... The namby pamby doo-gooders are playing into the BNP's hands :eeek:

Yay, back on topic, thanks Escapee.

The point I've been trying to make all along is that I can't see what a difference having the BNP in control as they can only work by the same laws that we have in place for our current government.

People like Defiant banging on about closing a door, and keeping them all out is just silly ness, because if it was that easy the surely the current government would bolt the door now and get all the good publicity from it.

There are international/national laws that we must work to (for good reason), I just cant see what the thugs at the BNP will do to change the situation.

I do agree with you and Defiant (thats want I want an apology for, your accusations that it will please me that loads are being let in when I have clearly state that isn't my view all along) that things need to change but noone seems to be able to tell me how (not even the BNPs website) they intend to change things :(

Escapee

25-10-2003, 19:02

Yay, back on topic, thanks Escapee.

The point I've been trying to make all along is that I can't see what a difference having the BNP in control as they can only work by the same laws that we have in place for our current government.

People like Defiant banging on about closing a door, and keeping them all out is just silly ness, because if it was that easy the surely the current government would bolt the door now and get all the good publicity from it.

There are international/national laws that we must work to (for good reason), I just cant see what the thugs at the BNP will do to change the situation.

I do agree with you and Defiant (thats want I want an apology for, your accusations that it will please me that loads are being let in when I have clearly state that isn't my view all along) that things need to change but noone seems to be able to tell me how (not even the BNPs website) they intend to change things :(

I think the current and former goverment are actually afraid to close the door because they fear it will cost them votes come election time, wher the BNP would probably gain more votes by offering to do this from people who do not share racist views but are sick and tired of the current situation.

I find it very interesting when these discussions come up in the work place, because the vast majority say they are against these people gaining access to this country. I guess if we were to have a vote it could be the case, but how many of the people gaining access to this country during the last generation or so would vote against letting more people in here I wonder.

I do have sympathy for people who are treated badly, but we can't go around labelling people as "racist" because they are against these issues. I consider the two issues to be entirely separate in my opinion anyway, that's why I was appalled in an earlier discussion on the .com site that I was branded a racist for speaking my views.

As a little side issue to the racist bit, my friend said racist is not such a big issue in South Africa these days but tribal differences are more common.
It's a common label/misconception that you have to be a different colour to be racist!

Defiant

25-10-2003, 19:45

So please tell me how it will "kick off"

Honestly then.....TELL ME!!!!!

WHAT will you DO to have your voice heard???

Ive told you time and time again why people seek asylum in this country.......you are now talking about people and skills coming to this country!

Have you actually got a clue??

No it you that hasn't got a clue. Why dont you sod off to some island and ask all the scrounger's to go with you.

The far right nearly got into power in France not long back. People have had enough of it and prats like you that think we should have every fecker over here.

This ****e is not going away its getting closer because their's more and more being allowed to stay here and its us the taxpayer folking out for it all :2up: