View Full Version : NTL turns it's back on Linux users.
Richard M
15-10-2003, 23:09
(From an article on The Register)
NTL has cut off Linux users from its Freedom dial-up ISP service after imposing new dialler software that only runs on Windows and the Mac OS.
The move has angered users of the service, who claim that the've been deserted by the cableco.
One hacked off punter told The Register: "As a long-standing customer of NTL, I am rather appalled by this policy change. While I can understand that NTL would be unwilling to support less popular operating systems, it is hard to accept that NTL would go as far as to bar non-Windows operating systems from using their service."
For its part, NTL claims the change is essential to maintain service levels for its 100,000 or so Freedom customers. It also insists that the transition to the new dialler software has been ongoing since April with few problems.
A spokesman for NTL said: "Unfortunately, for a tiny number of Linux users we will no longer be able to provide them this service. We are genuinely sorry but have no option but to make this system change."
Linux users aside, others have reported that the new dialler software doesn't work and have been frustrated at the lack of communication from the company.
In a bid to put such concerns right, here's the full statement from NTL on the matter:
NTL Freedom is a high value internet and telephone service. At £15 per month, customers receive £15 worth of telephone calls and 24/7 dial up internet access. In other words it's effectively free internet access for those homes that spend over £15 per month on phone calls and have a BT phone line outside of our cabled areas. There are approx. 100,000 customers using the service today.
"In order to maintain this incredibly high value proposition we need to change dial up methods for some users. This process began in April; the vast majority of customers have now switched over and continue to benefit from the best value service on the market. Feedback from those customers who have changed is very positive and first time success rate of the new software is operating very high. However, any customer who is experiencing a problem with the new software should contact our dedicated Freedom support team on 0870 445 0137.
"The final group of customers who have not switched were emailed recently. We provided one weeks' notice that we needed to make this change. It takes approx. 2.5minutes to download the software. The new system allows us to provide a near 1:1 contention ratio, ensure pricing remains at outstanding levels of value for money and offers us added flexibility to keep improving the service over time.
"Finally, while this is good news for the vast majority of customers, we understand that making this change will affect some customers. For some their PC settings will need to be reset. We hope they'll understand that this change needs to happen and that the future savings will go someway to offset the inconvenience. Unfortunately, for a tiny number of Linux users we will no longer be able to provide them this service. We are genuinely sorry but have no option but to make this system change.
--> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/33404.html
NTL cost cutting. You would think they would try to support all formats as much as possible since they need all the users they can get.`
One thing that strikes me, is it always dialing the same number? Or does it vary the number called depending on the time of day?
It just seems the way their going at the moment, they just don't care.
What they don't seem to realise it they only have a certain number of houses in their cabled streets and once they've ****ed these customers off they won't be getting any more without digging up more streets (something they just can't do).
When are they going to wake up and realise the company is going to end up with no customers?? :(
edit - another thought is that Linux customers must be the best customers too, as they dont cause all this network traffic with worms and the like!
philip.j.fry
15-10-2003, 23:57
What exactly does this new software do? As far as I was aware all that should be needed is a modem, PPP and TCP/IP networking installed, or is this software just another piece of rubbish like that provided for broadband users that doesn't do anything except eat up memory?
The whole thing is imo the usual NTL mess.
We simply do not know what the dialer sw does at the moment (when it works that is)
I suspect the intial motivation from NTL was to be able to automaticaly move people from one dial up number to another, based on loads being experienced and so on. However I also suspect that any other number of 'good ideas' were then tacked onto this and no consideration was given for the downsides.
There are reports that even when using the same numbers that the dialer sw does connections can still not be obtained using 'standard' (dun in win for example) meathods and this implies dome form of 'proprietary' authentication that only the dialer is capable off.
There are reports of it installing spyware.
There are reports of it blocking some standard windows features such as ICS.
There are reports of it simply not working
There are reports of it working but the dial up number it forces not working.
From some reports it would seem that it is quite an extensive and expansive install, adding / changing dlls, registry entries and the like.
All in all the usual from NTL imo. Badly thought out. Little or no warning to users. Little or no 'real' information. Genral attitude of 'we impose and you accpet - or go elsewhere'.
ian@huth
16-10-2003, 01:09
I suspect the intial motivation from NTL was to be able to automaticaly move people from one dial up number to another, based on loads being experienced and so on. However I also suspect that any other number of 'good ideas' were then tacked onto this and no consideration was given for the downsides.
Loads will vary from day to day and hour to hour. They can't use it to move them onto another number if there is a heavy load because the number is dialled and connected before it gets the chance to alter the number.
If it is for load balancing I would have thought that it would be easier and more efficient to intercept the call on its way into the NTL system and route it to whatever location they wanted.
It would be interesting to hear the technical reasons why they have chosen to take this route and taken away the freedom of users to choose an operating system. After all it is called NTL: Freedom.
Loads will vary from day to day and hour to hour. They can't use it to move them onto another number if there is a heavy load because the number is dialled and connected before it gets the chance to alter the number.
If it is for load balancing I would have thought that it would be easier and more efficient to intercept the call on its way into the NTL system and route it to whatever location they wanted.
It would be interesting to hear the technical reasons why they have chosen to take this route and taken away the freedom of users to choose an operating system. After all it is called NTL: Freedom.
I may be totaly wrong about this, it's only a guess.I suspect that the interception of the calls and autodirection to approraite number is much more complcated for NTL offnet customers (who appear to be the only ones affected). Almost certainly it would be possible for calls originated from other suppliers, but I suspect that this would involve some cost from these suppliers. It possible that this is an attempt by NTL to achieve some of the same benefits and bypass these costs. Though I may well be barking up the wrong tree here.
I understand your point about usage changing by the hour and day but it would also change and average by the week and month as well. It's less fine but still offers some benfit I would suspect.
At the end of the day I am trying to 'rationalise' why NTL would want to be able to change a users dialup number at will.
ian@huth
16-10-2003, 01:38
If when you connect via freedom your dialler is updated with a new number for future use it should be easy to check whether a user is using the dialler or not and if not take them to a holding page that informs them of the number to use in the future.
Or maybe the dialler is much more than that.
If when you connect via freedom your dialler is updated with a new number for future use it should be easy to check whether a user is using the dialler or not and if not take them to a holding page that informs them of the number to use in the future.
Or maybe the dialler is much more than that.
Certainly. If my attempted rationalisation (load balancing) has any validity there are any number of ways this could still incorporate 'non dialer' users.
Of course another 'rationalisation' for this move is as follows
NTL seek to reduce their 'least profitable' offnet customers. They realise that on average those that use the dialer use the service less and those that do not use it more. So they implement a policy of 'forced dialer use' and hope that these 'less profitable' customers go elsewhere.
Of course (again) all need to try and 'rationalise' what NTL are doing and why would disapear if they just actually told us .
The whole thing is imo the usual NTL mess.
We simply do not know what the dialer sw does at the moment (when it works that is)
I suspect the intial motivation from NTL was to be able to automaticaly move people from one dial up number to another, based on loads being experienced and so on. However I also suspect that any other number of 'good ideas' were then tacked onto this and no consideration was given for the downsides.
There are reports that even when using the same numbers that the dialer sw does connections can still not be obtained using 'standard' (dun in win for example) meathods and this implies dome form of 'proprietary' authentication that only the dialer is capable off.
There are reports of it installing spyware.
There are reports of it blocking some standard windows features such as ICS.
There are reports of it simply not working
There are reports of it working but the dial up number it forces not working.
From some reports it would seem that it is quite an extensive and expansive install, adding / changing dlls, registry entries and the like.
All in all the usual from NTL imo. Badly thought out. Little or no warning to users. Little or no 'real' information. Genral attitude of 'we impose and you accpet - or go elsewhere'.
Conspiracy theory #41....
AOL now available over NTL Broadband.
NTL introduce propriety dial-up software for non-BB customers.
What's next? NTL introduce own Browser based on AOL? Followed by a change of the first two letters in their name?
Hmmm...
:D:D:D:D
What's next? NTL introduce own Browser based on AOL? Followed by a change of the first two letters in their name?
Glad I'm leaving for a Linux friendly ISP at the end of the month :)
Well Im one of those 100,000 ofnet customers in a non cabled area.
I did download the sofwtare only to see what it was doing Apart from being in the same vein as the freeserve £15.00 package it does nothing more.
TBH I havent used it and I am still okay using the same dial up number.
Followed by a change of the first two letters in their name?
Extremely unlikely (AOL buying NTL). AOL does not own any infrastructure assets at all (well in europe anyway). They consider themselves a content company and use other peoples infrastructure to deliver it.
Having said that AOL in the US do own some cable infrastructure but that is pretty much an historical anomoly. If they were to move into direct ownership of infrastructure in the europe it would represent a fundamental shift of strategy for them.
Extremely unlikely (AOL buying NTL). AOL does not own any infrastructure assets at all (well in europe anyway). They consider themselves a content company and use other peoples infrastructure to deliver it.
Having said that AOL in the US do own some cable infrastructure but that is pretty much an historical anomoly. If they were to move into direct ownership of infrastructure in the europe it would represent a fundamental shift of strategy for them.
AOL have just brought out a £9.99 anytime package not that anyone dwould choose to let AOL take over their system.
AOL have just brought out a £9.99 anytime package not that anyone dwould choose to let AOL take over their system.
Really, have you got a link?
Really, have you got a link?
http://www.net4nowt.com/isp_news/news_article.asp?News_ID=1433
http://www.aoltw.com/
sorry that was 9.95$
http://www.net4nowt.com/isp_news/news_article.asp?News_ID=1433
http://www.aoltw.com/
sorry that was 9.95$
Thought it was too good to be true :(
{FU}Fubar
16-10-2003, 15:29
just to be pedantic , but AOL is no more , its now Known As Timer Warner :P
SMHarman
16-10-2003, 15:35
Extremely unlikely (AOL buying NTL). AOL does not own any infrastructure assets at all (well in europe anyway). They consider themselves a content company and use other peoples infrastructure to deliver it.
Having said that AOL in the US do own some cable infrastructure but that is pretty much an historical anomoly. If they were to move into direct ownership of infrastructure in the europe it would represent a fundamental shift of strategy for them.
Errr - No.
AOL and Time Warner merged in 2001 toward the end of the dot com boom to create AOL Time Warner (the listed parent entity) - recently renamed Time Warner (sign of the times - back to the old historical name - remove the On Line).
http://media.aoltimewarner.com/media/press_view.cfm?release_num=55253461
AOL Time Warner is the world's leading media and entertainment company, whose businesses include filmed entertainment, interactive services, television networks, cable systems, publishing and music.
Time Warner cable is one of the biggest cable providers in the eastern US.
http://www.timewarnercable.com/dispatcher/aboutUs;jsessionid=0000HF04L30HXN0F2JXB5NP2ITY:-1?category=10075&rootCategory=10075
Corporate Facts and Figures
Time Warner Cable service passes more than 18 million U.S. homes, and serves nearly 11 million customers.
Time Warner Cable currently serves customers in the following 27 states:
Alabama, Arkansas, California, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Indiana, Kansas, Louisiana, Maine, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, North Carolina, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Wisconsin and West Virginia.
The number of Time Warner Cable digital video customers is expanding rapidly and reached 3.7 million at year-end (2002), reflecting high customer satisfaction with this popular service.
The ten largest Time Warner Cable operating divisions and the number of customers served are:
New York City 1,188,000
Houston 701,000
Raleigh 462,000
Western Ohio 427,000
Milwaukee 414,000
Northeast Ohio 398,000
Charlotte 389,000
Hawaii 383,000
Greensboro 352,000
Los Angeles 347,000
They even call their broadband product RoadRunner (meep meep) if whizzes along like the TW cartoon character.
TWC also has a DVR
http://www.timewarnercable.com/dispatcher/products;jsessionid=0000HF04L30HXN0F2JXB5NP2ITY:-1?category=11138&expand=Y&rootCategory=10050
Not really a historic anomaly, more what we would like NTL to look like really.
My Mother in Law has their cable (and DVR) - its fantastic.
Edit as did not auto parse for html properly
Not really a historic anomaly, more what we would like NTL to look like really.
OK not a hostorical anomoly. I still maintain that AOL's strategy to date in Europe has been to be a purely content company. They have not gone around aquiring network companies in Europe and I think the prospect of them doing so anytime in the near futre is extremely unlikely.
Might be what you would like NTL to become (like AOL in the US as an integrated infrastructure and content company) but its not what I would like to see. Though it is pretty much what NTL is atm - just that their net content is not as extensive as AOLs.
As I recall at the time of the merger AOL/Time Warner made it clear that access to these cable assets would be made available to any other service suppliers, on a level playing field and not just AOL. Now that _is_ something I would like to see copied at NTL.
SMHarman
16-10-2003, 16:24
OK not a hostorical anomoly. I still maintain that AOL's strategy to date in Europe has been to be a purely content company. They have not gone around aquiring network companies in Europe and I think the prospect of them doing so anytime in the near futre is extremely unlikely.
I concur.
Might be what you would like NTL to become (like AOL in the US as an integrated infrastructure and content company) but its not what I would like to see. Though it is pretty much what NTL is atm - just that their net content is not as extensive as AOLs.
No what I would like to see is the level of innovation and R&D. HDTV over cable. PVRs and the like.
As I recall at the time of the merger AOL/Time Warner made it clear that access to these cable assets would be made available to any other service suppliers, on a level playing field and not just AOL. Now that _is_ something I would like to see copied at NTL.
"Time Warner Cable offers its customers multiple Internet Service Providers (ISPs) including Road Runner, AOL, EarthLink, Big Net and several regional ISPs and plans to add others in the future. Road Runner, Time Warner Cable's own Internet access service was established in 1996 and for the last two years has been ranked highest in customer satisfaction in J.D. Power and Associates' annual survey of residential high-speed ISP services. Time Warner Cable also offers businesses and telecommuters Road Runner Business Class. In total, Time Warner Cable provides high-speed broadband services to 2.5 million residential customers and a growing number of businesses. "
What a great idea.
No what I would like to see is the level of innovation and R&D. HDTV over cable. PVRs and the like.
Can't argue with that.
"Time Warner Cable offers its customers multiple Internet Service Providers (ISPs) including Road Runner, AOL, EarthLink, Big Net and several regional ISPs and plans to add others in the future. Road Runner, Time Warner Cable's own Internet access service was established in 1996 and for the last two years has been ranked highest in customer satisfaction in J.D. Power and Associates' annual survey of residential high-speed ISP services. Time Warner Cable also offers businesses and telecommuters Road Runner Business Class. In total, Time Warner Cable provides high-speed broadband services to 2.5 million residential customers and a growing number of businesses. "
What a great idea.
Indeed !
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