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SnoopZ
21-08-2005, 13:57
Hi all,

I'm currently on Ntl's 2Mbit service and plan to upgrade to 3Mbit just before they role out the 10Mbit upgrade.

However after doing some research on my modem (SurfBoard SB3100) i've discovered even though the specs for the modem say it can handle 38Mbps downstream it's not possible as my modem only has an ethernet 10BaseT port on the back, and after looking on Google even a 10Mbit port isn't suitable for for Ntl's upcoming speed offering. The modem needs to have a 10BaseT/100 ethernet port on the back.

Which number do I phone to get my modem upgraded and will it be a UK call centre ? Also should I get the modem changed now or wait until nearer the time as Im sure Ntl will be getting swamped with new modem requests?

Thanks in advance :)

SnoopZââ€Ã⠀¦Ã‚¾Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¢

Paul K
21-08-2005, 14:05
Ring CS or tech support and voice your concerns to them. Swapping to the higher tier now would be sensible but only if you were to get NTL to swap out the modem now as well. I'm sure one of the NTL staff members will be able to advise you as to wether or not that modem will fail to handle the speeds correctly and as to what to do about it.

Paul
21-08-2005, 14:19
Um, 10BaseT is 10Mbit, so why is it unsuitable ?

Besides - I doubt ntl will upgrade any modems at this time, they are not likely to do so before they need to.

SnoopZ
21-08-2005, 14:53
Um, 10BaseT is 10Mbit, so why is it unsuitable ?

Besides - I doubt ntl will upgrade any modems at this time, they are not likely to do so before they need to.

Hi Paul M,

I'd previously read on other websites that people had been having problems using a SB3100 on their 10Mbit connections and only able to pull between 4 and 8Mbits so this is where my concern was raised.

Unfortunately I can't find the links for these sites but I know it was from US ISP.

I guess I should just sit back and wait to see what happens when they eventually dish out the new speeds. :)


SnoopZââ€Ã⠀¦Ã‚¾Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¢

Paul
21-08-2005, 15:38
It should be remembered that you are unlikely to get 10Mbit downloads most of the time anyway, since the intermediate connections are likely to be contested/congested, and esp because few far end servers will support it for multiple users (or even one user in many cases).

Ignition
21-08-2005, 15:49
10baseT = half duplex Paul, max throughput I've seen on a low latency connection via 10baseT is about 6.5Mbps.

Nidge
21-08-2005, 16:27
I was talking to an engineer the other day and he said the Terayon modems ( The black ones) will be ok when the new speeds come in, he went on to say the Terayon modems are one of the best modems on the market.

Hom3r
21-08-2005, 16:36
I was talking to an engineer the other day and he said the Terayon modems ( The black ones) will be ok when the new speeds come in, he went on to say the Terayon modems are one of the best modems on the market.

Me got a Terayon TJ200 :disturbd: :disturbd:

Paul
21-08-2005, 18:16
10baseT = half duplex Paul, max throughput I've seen on a low latency connection via 10baseT is about 6.5Mbps.Are you saying an SB3100 is not capable of full duplex ?

punky
21-08-2005, 18:29
It not a case of the modem not being able to do it, its that the port and cable can't. The BASE bit of the 10BASE-T means that it can't multiplex connections. Even if there was a 10BROAD-T cable, it still wouldn't be good enough, even if it was 100% efficient (which is impossible to guarantee), as it would lose downstream to make room for the upstream.

Any 10meg connections to be legally sold (you can't sell something that is an impossibility) will need a 100BASE-T or 1000BASE-T connection.

Ignition
21-08-2005, 22:21
A TX connection (X indicating full duplex) would be a bonus. Multiplexing is not the same as full duplex, multiplexing is comibining of multiple channels onto a single larger channelised stream, not the same as a full duplex connection which simply uses two different sets of pins for receive and transmit on two different frequency bands simultaneously.

The BASE bit doesn't mean anything for multiplexing, nor for duplex, you can happily multiplex multiple 2Mbit circuits down a single 10baseTX cable assuming there are muxes / multiplexers either side to do this.

mmm
21-08-2005, 23:48
I was talking to an engineer the other day and he said the Terayon modems ( The black ones) will be ok when the new speeds come in, he went on to say the Terayon modems are one of the best modems on the market.

Was he trying to sell you one that had been chucked out then?

NTL only used Terayon for a short while, they only have 10baseT/half duplex Ethernet port a max upstream power of +58, and no web diagnostic page. The newer ntl ambit modems are a much higher spec - i'd swap my TJ210 for an ntl250 any day...

NB the older wired routers BEFSR41 also only have a 10/half WAN port and cannot manage more than 5Mbps, and all those with wireless B connections wouldn't be able to get close to 10Mbps..

Doofy
22-08-2005, 00:55
Was he trying to sell you one that had been chucked out then?

NTL only used Terayon for a short while, they only have 10baseT/half duplex Ethernet port a max upstream power of +58, and no web diagnostic page. The newer ntl ambit modems are a much higher spec - i'd swap my TJ210 for an ntl250 any day...

NB the older wired routers BEFSR41 also only have a 10/half WAN port and cannot manage more than 5Mbps, and all those with wireless B connections wouldn't be able to get close to 10Mbps..

A question if i may and please bear in mind i know naff all about this networking stuff i just plug it in and it goes :erm: there is a setting will changing this have any effect when the 10mb roll out? i have a BEFSR41 and a motorola SB4100 will i need new modem and router? any help would be great..

BBKing
22-08-2005, 10:19
While it would be tricky to push 10Mb simultaneously both ways through a 10Mb/half duplex port it isn't going to be a problem pushing ~10Mb one way down it. The ACKs, if they're required, will briefly interrupt the downstream (because it's half-duplex) but only for a fraction of a second each. I've got kit connected to Cisco switches with 10/half and it's barely noticeable in normal use (takes a bit longer to copy big files across than 100 or 1000BASE-T though!).

Most older ntl modems have 10Mb ports, as do Pace STBs. More recent Ambits, Samsung STBs (sort of) and IIRC Terayons have 100Mb ports.

Where did you google that 10Mb ports weren't going to be sufficient?

Incidentally, 'BASE' merely means it can only carry one signal, which is lucky as that's all we're going to push up it anyway. Essentially our PC or router is sending a single stream of bits to the device, which we can code into one signal with no problem. That stream can, at a higher level, carry any number of different protocols and connections, but down among the bits and electrons we really don't give a stuff. That's the layer model for you.

It's the opposite of 'broadband' in its true meaning, and if you want to get into why we use 'baseband' to transmit what we sell as a 'broadband' several electrical engineers will horn in about marketeers debasing rigid scientific definitions and all hell will break loose!

Stu038
22-08-2005, 12:09
if you want to get into why we use 'baseband' to transmit what we sell as a 'broadband' several electrical engineers will horn in about marketeers debasing rigid scientific definitions and all hell will break loose!

:D :D :D

SnoopZ
22-08-2005, 13:14
Where did you google that 10Mb ports weren't going to be sufficient?

I wasn't sure where I found the links but these are quotes from them that raised my concern.

'Those specs are not what you actually get out of a 3100. I've had a chance to use a 3100 uncapped with a high upstream priority on at least three different systems and the best it can pull is around 8M/16k or 256k/3M on a brand new 3100 being actively air cooled. Once the things age a little or even heat up you are lucky to pull over 4M down and 1M up (and certainly not at the same time).'


'The modems DO have data throughput abilities of sommat like 38Mbps.The SB3100 has a 10BaseT ethernet port so THIS particular modem will suffer once BY officially rise to 10Mb and above because despite the modems ability to pull in data at higher rates, the ethernet port is limited (there is no USB port on the 3100)'

In the meantime I have emailed Motorola Technical Support so hopefully I will hear something soon, on the other hand if their like NTL then I'm unlikely to.:D


SnoopZââ€Ã⠀¦Ã‚¾Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¢
__________________

Just had a short! reply from Motorola Technical Support.

Dear Sir,

I'm in th UK and own a SB3100 cable modem and currently my ISP (NTLworld) is giving me a 2Mbit connection. However later this year this will be upgraded to 10Mbit.

After reading the specs of the SB3100 it tells me that this modems ethernet port is 10BaseT. Please could you advice me whether this modem will be suitable for my new 10Mbit connection as I use newsgroups alot so would expect to be able to max this connection out.

If it's not suitable could you please give details why and what the max download speed I'm likely to be able to achieve so I can present these findings to my ISP and get them to change my modem.

Thankyou very much for your time and look forward to your reply

I apologize for the inconvenience you are having with this product. Yes this modem should fit the needs that you have.

Not much help is it. So I'll wait and see what happens when the time comes.


SnoopZââ€Ã⠀¦Ã‚¾Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¢

handyman
22-08-2005, 13:19
Hmmm since the original ambit 100 modems cost ntl £10 each and the following modems are smaller and more compact and still ambit I'm sure that ntl will have no problem in sourcing and supplying modems to replace the motorola's , 3coms and terryons.

A quick guess would be max 250,000 required. Could be less as I'm not sure what percenage would still be ok on STB broadband.

250,000 x 10 = 2,500,000 not really a lot in the grand scheme of things.

orangebird
22-08-2005, 13:20
I wasn't sure where I found the links but these are quotes from them that raised my concern.

'Those specs are not what you actually get out of a 3100. I've had a chance to use a 3100 uncapped with a high upstream priority on at least three different systems and the best it can pull is around 8M/16k or 256k/3M on a brand new 3100 being actively air cooled. Once the things age a little or even heat up you are lucky to pull over 4M down and 1M up (and certainly not at the same time).'


'The modems DO have data throughput abilities of sommat like 38Mbps.The SB3100 has a 10BaseT ethernet port so THIS particular modem will suffer once BY officially rise to 10Mb and above because despite the modems ability to pull in data at higher rates, the ethernet port is limited (there is no USB port on the 3100)'

In the meantime I have emailed Motorola Technical Support so hopefully I will hear something soon, on the other hand if their like NTL then I'm unlikely to.:D


SnoopZââ€Ã⠀¦Ã‚¾Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¢
__________________

Just had a short! reply from Motorola Technical Support.

Dear Sir,

I'm in th UK and own a SB3100 cable modem and currently my ISP (NTLworld) is giving me a 2Mbit connection. However later this year this will be upgraded to 10Mbit.

After reading the specs of the SB3100 it tells me that this modems ethernet port is 10BaseT. Please could you advice me whether this modem will be suitable for my new 10Mbit connection as I use newsgroups alot so would expect to be able to max this connection out.

If it's not suitable could you please give details why and what the max download speed I'm likely to be able to achieve so I can present these findings to my ISP and get them to change my modem.

Thankyou very much for your time and look forward to your reply

I apologize for the inconvenience you are having with this product. Yes this modem should fit the needs that you have.

Not much help is it. So I'll wait and see what happens when the time comes.


SnoopZââ€Ã⠀¦Ã‚¾Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¢

What's not helpful about Yes this modem should fit the needs that you have.
?

bob_builder
22-08-2005, 17:57
What's not helpful about
Yes this modem should fit the needs that you have.
?
It is not a definative answer; it should work but then again it might not!

SnoopZ
22-08-2005, 18:36
Well in the short term it might be ok but i'd rather have a modem that I knew for sure was able to give me the full 10Mbits and I wouldn't have any problems with.

Lets face it, in a years time the speeds could well be 15Mbit with Ntl so new modems will be required then. :)


SnoopZââ€Ã⠀¦Ã‚¾Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¢

SLM
22-08-2005, 19:35
Well in the short term it might be ok but i'd rather have a modem that I knew for sure was able to give me the full 10Mbits and I wouldn't have any problems with.

Lets face it, in a years time the speeds could well be 15Mbit with Ntl so new modems will be required then. :)
SnoopZââ€Ã⠀¦Ã‚¾Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¢

Just to be an ar*e (sorry) but in a years time you will probably only be just getting 10mps as ntl are starting to role out 10mps in Jan 06(ish) and i think ntl will be doing all the testing on ALL modems on there network now, only start worrying when you get 10mps and you can not get that spec. ;)

mmm
22-08-2005, 21:09
A question if i may and please bear in mind i know naff all about this networking stuff i just plug it in and it goes :erm: there is a setting will changing this have any effect when the 10mb roll out? i have a BEFSR41 and a motorola SB4100 will i need new modem and router? any help would be great..

I don't know where your picture comes from - but that device certainly supports 100Mb connections.

You don't need to worry or do anything, the maximum bandwidth is defined by the weakest link - which is not likely in normal use to be the modem/router. Theoretically a half duplex 10Mbps connection will not be able to sustain 10Mbps download - but it may get very close and the only time you'll be able to get that speed is if ntl host a high bandwidth speedtest site. I have seen reports that V2 (and presumably V1) Linksys BEFSR41 routers impair US cable 6Mbps links this may be the connection or the internal process doing the NAT translation etc. This problem is solved in later models which also have 100Mbps WAN connections.

Doofy
22-08-2005, 21:57
I don't know where your picture comes from - but that device certainly supports 100Mb connections.

You don't need to worry or do anything, the maximum bandwidth is defined by the weakest link - which is not likely in normal use to be the modem/router. Theoretically a half duplex 10Mbps connection will not be able to sustain 10Mbps download - but it may get very close and the only time you'll be able to get that speed is if ntl host a high bandwidth speedtest site. I have seen reports that V2 (and presumably V1) Linksys BEFSR41 routers impair US cable 6Mbps links this may be the connection or the internal process doing the NAT translation etc. This problem is solved in later models which also have 100Mbps WAN connections.

Many thanks for that and the picture came from my router config page

homealone
22-08-2005, 22:31
Many thanks for that and the picture came from my router config page

that is not a page from a V2 BEFSR41 Router, so I assume it is a V3, hence ok ;)

I have a V2 ;)

looks like I will be better off with a lower than 6Mb connection ;)

Doofy
22-08-2005, 23:22
that is not a page from a V2 BEFSR41 Router, so I assume it is a V3, hence ok ;)

I have a V2 ;)

looks like I will be better off with a lower than 6Mb connection ;)

I just pulled the router out and it is indeed a v3, that config page doesnt appear in the setup at all i have to go to http://192.168.1.1/auto_nego.htm to get in and the forum i found this on is here

http://www.askmarvin.ca/forums/index.php?showtopic=331