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When will the anouncment be on the restructuring, ie promotion or saved from relegation for all the divisions?
There is a meeting of the SFA taking place tomorrow to find out if either Dundee or Dunfermline will take the old Rangers place in the SPL. Many SFL chairmen, and Scottish press, expect another twist in the tail.
If this season doesn't begin with Rangers in the 3rd division, the SFA and Scottish football will forever lose all integrity. Noticed another scare story on the front of The Sunday Mail this morning suggesting 5 SPL clubs will be bust within 6 weeks if Rangers start in the 3rd division. I'm pretty sure the SPL chairmen of these clubs knew the risks when they voted no to Rangers. Sporting integrity must be upheald at all costs.
Here is a copy of Stewart Regans e-mail, dated 23rd June 2012, sent to Scottish Premier League chief exec Neil Doncaster; Scottish Football League boss David Longmuir, SFL President Jim Ballantyne, SFA vice-president Alan McRae, Hibernian FC chief exec Rod Petrie and SPL chairman Ralph Topping.
”Dear all,
Many thanks for your contribution and support over the last two weeks in trying to deliver a programme of change that will move Scottish football forward whilst addressing the need to deal with the Rangers matter with integrity and in line with our own values as an organisation.
I was hugely encouraged with where we got to last night on a long and tiring phone call and I thank all of you for your efforts to move this issue forward.
I thought it would be helpful if I summarised where I think we are:
1. The Rangers Football Club will be relegated to the 1st Division of the SFL with immediate effect and will be replaced in the SPL by Dundee FC.
2. The television rights for Rangers FC matches in the SFL will be purchased by the SPL for the sum of £1m as a one-off fee for the season 2012/2013.
3. The two leagues will merge into a single league body – The Scottish Professional Football League – effective season 2013/14 – with a working party set up immediately involving representatives from the SPL, SFL and (if required) the Scottish FA to plan the integration of the two bodies – people, rules, rebranding, commercial considerations and so on.
4. A new Board of Directors will be appointed to govern the single league. The make up of this Board will consist of an Independent Chairman, CEO, 3 representatives from the Premier League, 2 representatives from the Championship/Leagues 1 & 2 and 2 Independent Non-Executive Directors.
5. Play-offs will be introduced immediately with the first matches taking place at the end of the coming season 2012/2013.
6. Enhanced parachute payments will be implemented from the end of the season 2012/2013 to soften the landing for club(s) relegated from the Premier League.
7. A revised all-through distribution model will be put in place to provide: a) An all-through distribution model for clubs 1-22 and a minimum guarantee for 20 clubs in Leagues 1 & 2, equivalent to what they would earn under the current settlement agreement.
8. A Pyramid System will be put in place which open up the bottom of League 2 effective from the end of season 2013/2014 with the first opportunity for promoted clubs to enter the league being 2014/15 thus allowing for licensing to take place.
9. Consolidation below the Third Division to take place to create a Lowland & Highland League structure effective 2014/15 with appropriate play-offs and promotion/relegation to be put in place. Clubs to be briefed that the previous season 2013/2014 will involve the opportunity to enter play-offs for the first time.
In terms of actions/timings I think the following needs to happen in this coming week:
A) A joint statement today from all 3 bodies confirming that productive discussions have taken place on a new blueprint for Scottish football. Consultation will continue over the next two weeks with a view to clubs getting together week commencing 2nd July to try and agree the way forward. (D Broadfoot to provide this and circulate to DL/ND for approval)
B) Rod P / Jim B to finalise the all-through financial model by Wednesday this week latest.
C) Neil / David to finalise the detail on Governance, Commercials and Play-Offs (ideally Monday/Tuesday) and incorporate these, plus the financials in B) above into a legally binding Heads of Terms ‘draft’ for presentation to each league body w/c 2nd July.
D) DL to organise SFL Board Meeting w/c 25th June to gain buy-in to the plan and also arrange an all club meeting w/c 2nd July
E) ND to gain support from SPL Clubs 28th June
F) SFL Clubs Meeting to be planned for 3rd July
G) SPL Club Meeting to be planned for 4th July
H) Scottish FA Board to sign off on the final plan post 4th July. Subject to approval all bodies (including Newco) to sign legal documentation.
I) Agree joint communication strategy
J) In parallel to A-D above, could Rod Petrie please brief Charles Green confidentially on the discussions from a Scottish FA perspective so that there are ‘no surprises’ and there is a general acceptance of the plan plus all of the other conditions discussed e.g. transfer embargo, fines, repayment of football debt, waiving rights to legal challenge, acceptance of relegation and so on.
K) Andrew to ensure our check list of disclosures relating to Newco and Fit & Proper Person criteria are delivered by 2nd july. The Board will need these plus the Heads of Terms above in order to complete this plan.
The Scottish FA Board have agreed to provide a one-off restructuring budget of £1m on condition the above plan is delivered.
I hope this covers everything.
Speak soon….now off to the airport!
Regards
Stewart”
This totally smacks of corruption.
Media Boy UK
15-07-2012, 18:03
ESPN may bid for SFL rights.
ESPN, have assured the league they are committed to showing Scottish football — and could now pursue a deal with the SFL to show Gers’ Division Three games
Read more: http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/4428965/Clubs-plan-Sky-meet.html#ixzz20iBJjC31
Thanks media boy
"
If Sky do decide to pull out, it’s understood the league will look to resurrect plans to launch their own TV channel.
"
I wouldn't take that channel...I only watch scottish football because it is on ESPN or sky..but get both of those channels because of EPL among other reasons
Thanks media boy
"
If Sky do decide to pull out, it’s understood the league will look to resurrect plans to launch their own TV channel.
"
How can the SPL do that if ESPN are still commited to their current 30 game a season deal? SPL TV would need to broadcast about 60 games a season, on top of the 30 ESPN, to be a success. All that will do however is encourage more Scottish fans to stay at home to watch the action rather than going to the game.
If there was zero live SPL games on TV, and all SPL games kicked-off at 3pm on a Saturday, would the fans return to the games in their thousands? It's the lack of bums on seats that is killing the Scottish game. If SPL teams charged £10.00 per game, cash at the gates, and re-introduced the sensible sale of beer at the grounds Scottish football could have a chance.
greeninferno
18-07-2012, 20:23
So it looks like Dundee, Airdrie & Stanraer then. Glad thats sorted lets hope it can all move on.
Rangers don't have a license to play , so its not all sorted at all.
The first competitive match played by Charles Green’s new-look Rangers – the Ramsdens Cup tie against Brechin City at Glebe Park – will be televised live by BBC Alba.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2012/07/19/newco-rangers-ramsdens-cup-clash-with-brechin-to-be-shown-live-on-bbc-alba-86908-23910037/
The first competitive match played by Charles Green’s new-look Rangers – the Ramsdens Cup tie against Brechin City at Glebe Park – will be televised live by BBC Alba.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2012/07/19/newco-rangers-ramsdens-cup-clash-with-brechin-to-be-shown-live-on-bbc-alba-86908-23910037/
Will red button pick this up in rest of UK :confused:
Rangers don't have a license to play , so its not all sorted at all.
Surely you aren't suggesting the hopelessly inept SFA and Reagan would bar Rangers from playing as payback for making them look stupid in the courts? :erm:
That's the next part of this saga, Rangers have to accept the punishments that were ruled unlawful and have to give up the right to appeal to any other punishments for real or imagined crimes yet to be decided and if they don't they'll be suspended for a year until the SFA can fiddle the leagues to get Rangers back in the top flight. :mad:
Talks are ongoing about TV deals for the SFL and SPL.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18891279
SPL still in talks with ESPN/Sky. I hope that the SFL deal is with a company that is in the Virgin TV lineup.
greeninferno
19-07-2012, 16:55
Surely you aren't suggesting the hopelessly inept SFA and Reagan would bar Rangers from playing as payback for making them look stupid in the courts? :erm:
That's the next part of this saga, Rangers have to accept the punishments that were ruled unlawful and have to give up the right to appeal to any other punishments for real or imagined crimes yet to be decided and if they don't they'll be suspended for a year until the SFA can fiddle the leagues to get Rangers back in the top flight. :mad:
The plan was to have Rangers out of the SPL for a year.
I can see Rangers suspended for 12 months then re admitted back to the SPL next year.
Scottish Football will resemble the League Of Wales if Rangers have to spend 3 years out of the top flight.
Rangers don't have a license to play , so its not all sorted at all. Well if they don't let Newco play then it will still be Airdrie, Stranraer with a new club being invited into League 3.
denphone
20-07-2012, 06:28
Talks are ongoing about TV deals for the SFL and SPL.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18891279
SPL still in talks with ESPN/Sky. I hope that the SFL deal is with a company that is in the Virgin TV lineup.
Seconded.
The Rangers situation is slowly being sorted out.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18929983
Rangers will have until September to assemble a squad and will have a one year transfer embargo imposed after that.
The Scottish Sun are reporting bids for SFL Rangers TV deal are to be in for Monday
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/rangers/4439546/Gers-TV-deal-on-the-way.html
It's the kind of oppertunity Premier Sports will be looking at. Virgin have a strong customer base in the central belt of Scotland, which is where most Rangers fans are from. Rangers fans with Virgin will not be happy if the broadcast rights go to a channel they can't access.
Premier Sports already broadcast Rangers and Celtic TV. In recent years they've picked up Rangers and Celtics Euro qualifiers plus pre-season friendlies. Their dedication to Conference football down in England will show the SFL they have a real interest in lower league football and have a track record of covering it.
Don't rule Premier Sports out. This is the kind of deal that could help them get onto Virgin. It wouldn't take long for Virgin to be bombarded by requests from Rangers fans to add the channel. Would Virgin react to between 20,000 to 40,000 requests for the channel to be added?
I have nothing against Premier Sport except that I can't receive it. If they succeeded in a bid to get Rangers SFL games and this got them on Virgin it would be a result.
Would they be brave enough to bid higher than Sky/ESPN? After Setanta perhaps they may be more careful about what they are prepared to pay for content.
The Scottish Football League are reportedly looking for bids in the region of £1,000,000 for the 25 game package. That's £40,000 per game. Premier Sports would only need to add about 6000 new subscribers to cover this. Personally, as a Rangers fan, I hope the rights go to either the BBC or ESPN. If they do, I will be cancelling SKY Sports.
The only football I watch on SKY is Rangers and Scotland games. Scotland away fixtures for the next 2 years are on the BBC. The Scottish League Cup is on the BBC. The Scottish Cup is on both the BBC and SKY. Plus there is plenty more live football on ESPN and ITV and good old Match of the Day on the BBC.
It is still going on!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18929983
The SPL want further sanctions on Rangers and a share of Rangers Division 3 media rights. When is enough enough?
The SPL want further sanctions on Rangers and a share of Rangers Division 3 media rights. When is enough enough?
You want the media rights then you have Rangers in the SPL. If Rangers aren't there they should never just hand you wads of cash to keep your insolvent clubs alive.
The rest of the SPL can go and take a running jump. I'd already think the blackmail to accept the transfer embargo was coming close to contempt of court and now they've realised the golden goose is about to die and they want to squeeze the last few eggs from it.
Rangers don't have to agree...they can just fold
They are merely getting what is due.
They are merely getting what is due.
Why on earth should SPL clubs get any money from a team that plays 3 divisions below them?
They did not want Rangers for reasons of 'sporting integrity' but are willing to hold them to ransom in order to get cash, where is the integrity in that?
How on Earth can the SPL justify trying to get a piece of SFL broadcast rights? That's totally unfair on the other 9 clubs in Divison 3.
The SPL need to get their own TV deals sorted out first before worrying about what other leagues are doing in Scottish football. Still no news on what is happening with the SKY deal, still no news on the ESPN deal, still no news on radio and international broadcast rights. Meetings have taken place but all remains silent.
Fans of SPL clubs should be worried if trying to snatch Division 3 TV money is the SPL's solution to potential drops in broadcast revenue.
It could be that they want the money due to the SPL members..rangers left a lot of football debts, even if you don't count the money due to the taxpayer that they stole
I think they are also due money to european clubs too
Football never forgets debts...only people that lose, are the taxpayer (and companies who supplied services to rangers and weren't paid)
It could be that they want the money due to the SPL members..rangers left a lot of football debts, even if you don't count the money due to the taxpayer that they stole
Part of the sanctions appears to be that all the previous footballing debts are transferred to the newco so other teams are not going to be out of pocket.
Stole? I didn't see the first team in balaclavas taking out a security van. :rolleyes:
Yes, Craig Whyte refused to pay NI and PAYE and that is currently being investigated. The use of EBT's was not illegal and was declared in the annual accounts when they were being used.
---------- Post added at 14:24 ---------- Previous post was at 14:19 ----------
It is important to remember we have already had a 10 point deduction from the SPL, lost our Champions League place for finishing second last season, had a £160,000 fine, been refused entry to the SPL, been relegated to Division 3 and lost the majority of our first team squad - yet still the governing body has chosen to impose further sanctions.
What else do you think should happen to them? Do you think further sanctions are proportionate for the alleged crimes?
It was clarified on BBC Scotlands Off The Ball programme that all prize money due to Rangers for last year, such as finishing second in the league, has been withheld. This money will be used to pay debts due to Scottish football teams. Newco have agreed to cover any shortfalls that remain.
greeninferno
21-07-2012, 18:32
It could be that they want the money due to the SPL members..rangers left a lot of football debts, even if you don't count the money due to the taxpayer that they stole
I think they are also due money to european clubs too
Football never forgets debts...only people that lose, are the taxpayer (and companies who supplied services to rangers and weren't paid)
Rangers were owed more cash in "football debts" than they owed.
craig whyte misappropriated the income to the football off his own back not in consort with other employees at the club.
<removed>
Rangers were owed more cash in "football debts" than they owed.
craig whyte misappropriated the income to the football off his own back not in consort with other employees at the club.
<removed>
Rangers were stealing taxpayer money for years..fact. They used an illegal scheme, illegal because it was deliberately being used to supplement salaries..fact
Using that method, they were able to afford better players..fact
<removed>
Arthurgray50@blu
21-07-2012, 19:01
Not being a Rangers fan, but l think they have been hit hard enough, for something that was not of its own making - it was carried out by the greed of directors.
The only people that will make money out of this and good luck to them, is the clubs that are in there div.
Its about time the SFA and SPL forgot about any further sanctions on the club and got on with business - and thats playing football.
Part of the sanctions appears to be that all the previous footballing debts are transferred to the newco so other teams are not going to be out of pocket.
Stole? I didn't see the first team in balaclavas taking out a security van. :rolleyes:
Yes, Craig Whyte refused to pay NI and PAYE and that is currently being investigated. The use of EBT's was not illegal and was declared in the annual accounts when they were being used.
---------- Post added at 14:24 ---------- Previous post was at 14:19 ----------
What else do you think should happen to them? Do you think further sanctions are proportionate for the alleged crimes?
Actually wrong. EBT's are legal, but not to supplement wages..which rangers did, that is illegal.
Rangers were also using double contracts, equally against the SPL rules
Rangers are being punished, for multiple crimes...not just one..that is the shocking thing
<deleted>
Oh dear. I know things have got a little personal over the past few posts however as a Rangers fan I am both disgusted and offended by your discriminative comments. Yes Scottish football does have a problem with bigotry, especially in Glasgow, but such a sweeping statement about a section of support is totally unacceptable. I also don't know why you've introduced such an ugly subject to this thread.
Oh dear. I know things have got a little personal over the past few posts however as a Rangers fan I am both disgusted and offended by your discriminative comments. Yes Scottish football does have a problem with bigotry, especially in Glasgow, but such a sweeping statement about a section of support is totally unacceptable. I also don't know why you've introduced such an ugly subject to this thread.
Sorry, I thought the old firm were supported on religious beliefs. Hence the songs they sing at games. Songs that only recently football authorities have banned because they are sectarian, and illegal.
I'm at a loss as to why not having the old firm playing is a bad thing. The amount of domestic violence in glasgow rises every weekend they play. Violence in the city increases. I don't see that as a good thing to be missed.
---------- Post added at 20:13 ---------- Previous post was at 20:10 ----------
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18938991
BBC Scotland has seen evidence that suggests 53 Rangers players and staff had side-letters giving undertakings to fund their EBTs with cash .
Illegal.
Rangers are not being punished for one offence, but multiple offences.
They went into administration, and got the 10 point penalty.
They then went into liquidation, and they are being punished for double contracts
I've moved the posts regarding Rangers and the ongoing problems in the Scottish football leagues into their own thread as the last one was going wildly off-topic.
Use this thread for all posts but remember keep it civil. Posts of a bigoted or sectarian nature or sweeping statements about teams and fans will NOT be tolerated.
CMON THE WELL!!!
Just sayin' :)
CMON THE WELL!!!
Just sayin' :)
lol..what brings this on. Europe?..hope for top two again?
Sounds like the stumbling block over SFA approving Rangers playing this season is a disagreement between the SPL and SFL over TV contracts.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2177471/Rangers-talks-SPL-future.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
It seems the SPL need Rangers division 3 matches in their package to get decent money from their TV contract. The SFL want their own deal.
Hope this is sorted out as it would be fun watching Rangers finding their way back. The sectarian stuff goes way over my head.
The SPL clubs are now faced with the cold, hard, financial consequences of booting Rangers out of the league and are trying to both have their cake and eat it. I'm really not a follower of Scottish football but from where I'm sitting, the SPL's demand seems outrageous - an indefensible piece of blackmail.
TV figures for Scottish football are doing the rounds on various Scottish football forums. Not sure of the original source unfortunately.
Rangers v Peterhead 166,000 (BBC Alba)
Berwick v Rangers 96,000
Celtic v Aberdeen 91,000
Dundee v Dundee Utd 75,000
Ross County v Celtic 70,000
Inverness v Celtic 67,000
Hibs v Hearts 25,000
Dundee Utd v Hibs 16,000
If these figures are accurate Scottish football is in a terrible state. As the season goes on, and Celtic dominate the league, these figures will sadly drop further and further as TV fans lose interest.
I'm confused. What was tv audience last year?
Scottish football is in the state it is, not because of rangers, but because having a 10 team leagues was detrimental to scottish football.
Equally, celtic and rangers constant eagerness to leave scottish football over the years (despite no viable opportunities to do so) equally did not help.
Finally, trying to compete in spending with a team who preferred to use tax payers money to fund buying (ie rangers) also did not help.
To say that scottish football is in dire straits because of rangers going down to third division is a fallacy
Scottish Football has been this way for a long while.
Arthurgray50@blu
05-09-2012, 20:17
At the moment Scottish football is run by Celtic, you might as well give them the title on the first day of the season, as to me they get away with murder and the referees are scared stiff of them.
Have you noticed that Celtic win matches in the last five minutes of games ?
I think the good thing is that with Rangers being in the lower tier of football - the small clubs will get that extra revenue. I wonder what will happen when Rangers get back into the SPL, which will take two years, probably the SFL will take out another court order stopping them playing in the top tier, sorry Scottish football is finished.
My Dad was a massive Celtic fan so in theory i am as well and in no means is this an attack on the bhoys, but let me tell you this current Celtic team is not that great and seems to be very complacent, now is the time for someone like Dundee United to start to challenge for the title. C'mon Scottish football, lets be having you.
Finally, trying to compete in spending with a team who preferred to use tax payers money to fund buying (ie rangers) also did not help.
Oh really? :rolleyes:
How? They used a tax-avoidance strategy that was legal at the time and all their payments to players were announced in their annual accounts, unlike another side I could mention.
If the SFA are so convinced they breached the rules with contract payments then why did they not query it when the annual accounts showed higher payments than the contracts?
Although if you start asking that question you then have to ask why they didn't investigate Craig Whyte when there was mounting evidence he was a crook and why the SFA cannot afford to give cash to clubs when they are already withholding £2,000,000 of prize money that should have gone to Rangers for finishing 2nd last year.
You might even suggest that they are insolvent if even after getting a £2 mil windfall they can't pay their bills on time... :dozey:
---------- Post added at 22:57 ---------- Previous post was at 22:45 ----------
If these figures are accurate Scottish football is in a terrible state. As the season goes on, and Celtic dominate the league, these figures will sadly drop further and further as TV fans lose interest.
That's nothing, have a look at the actual attendance figures. Most of the teams combined are lucky to get anywhere near an SFL3 game. :D
Still they don't need Rangers, once the big bad gers got punted down the leagues the fans were going to come back in their droves. :rolleyes:
LondonRoad
05-09-2012, 23:10
Oh really? :rolleyes:
How? They used a tax-avoidance strategy that was legal at the time and all their payments to players were announced in their annual accounts, unlike another side I could mention.
If the SFA are so convinced they breached the rules with contract payments then why did they not query it when the annual accounts showed higher payments than the contracts?
Although if you start asking that question you then have to ask why they didn't investigate Craig Whyte when there was mounting evidence he was a crook and why the SFA cannot afford to give cash to clubs when they are already withholding £2,000,000 of prize money that should have gone to Rangers for finishing 2nd last year.
You might even suggest that they are insolvent if even after getting a £2 mil windfall they can't pay their bills on time... :dozey:
No. An interesting slant that ignores the actual facts of the case.
The EBT scheme was legal. The way that David Murray chose to run it was illegal. He continued to misuse the scheme after he was advised not to.
An EBT could not be used for any contractual payment. Rangers used this extensively thereby turning a tax avoidance scheme into tax evasion.
I'm not sure that the SFA can be held responsible when they weren't privy to the full picture. They were informed of the contracts and were informed of the monies paid into an EBT scheme. They were not informed that the money paid by EBT was part of a separate contract or side letter.
The club that finished second in the SPL are currently undergoing the final stages of liquidation. Any monies due to them should be going to the creditors pot. I'm sure once BDO move in they might have a similar view. I suspect the SPL are aware of this which is why they're not splashing cash that may not be theirs.
No. An interesting slant that ignores the actual facts of the case.
The EBT scheme was legal. The way that David Murray chose to run it was illegal. He continued to misuse the scheme after he was advised not to.
An EBT could not be used for any contractual payment. Rangers used this extensively thereby turning a tax avoidance scheme into tax evasion.
I'm not sure that the SFA can be held responsible when they weren't privy to the full picture. They were informed of the contracts and were informed of the monies paid into an EBT scheme. They were not informed that the money paid by EBT was part of a separate contract or side letter.
The club that finished second in the SPL are currently undergoing the final stages of liquidation. Any monies due to them should be going to the creditors pot. I'm sure once BDO move in they might have a similar view. I suspect the SPL are aware of this which is why they're not splashing cash that may not be theirs.
What he says :).
No point in saying EBT are legal as justification, as that isn't and never was the issue. Using EBT illegally is the issue, and that is what Rangers did. A deliberate act to evade tax. An act that was stated by HMRC as being illegal.
A deliberate act to evade tax. An act that was stated by HMRC as being illegal.
So when are any of the old Rangers management and board up in court if they are guilty of tax evasion?
---------- Post added at 08:57 ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 ----------
The club that finished second in the SPL are currently undergoing the final stages of liquidation. Any monies due to them should be going to the creditors pot. I'm sure once BDO move in they might have a similar view. I suspect the SPL are aware of this which is why they're not splashing cash that may not be theirs.
The money was waived on the understanding that the SPL cover the outstanding footballing debts, Rangers have signed statements to that effect. When the new holding company took Rangers membership and agreed to take the debts the SPL went back and started to claim that they were responsible for the debts. I believe they backed down when it was made clear they could get another kicking in court and make FIFA even more angry.
The 2 mil is floating about, I wouldn't be surprised if its being used to fund the totally impartial :rolleyes: investigation into Rangers. Harper McLeod aren't coming cheap.
It is nice how, out of all the law firms in Scotland, they appointed the same one used by Celtic and whose major partner is often seen at Parkhead, no conflict of interest there at all.
LondonRoad
07-09-2012, 11:42
So when are any of the old Rangers management and board up in court if they are guilty of tax evasion?
---------- Post added at 08:57 ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 ----------
The money was waived on the understanding that the SPL cover the outstanding footballing debts, Rangers have signed statements to that effect. When the new holding company took Rangers membership and agreed to take the debts the SPL went back and started to claim that they were responsible for the debts. I believe they backed down when it was made clear they could get another kicking in court and make FIFA even more angry.
The 2 mil is floating about, I wouldn't be surprised if its being used to fund the totally impartial :rolleyes: investigation into Rangers. Harper McLeod aren't coming cheap.
It is nice how, out of all the law firms in Scotland, they appointed the same one used by Celtic and whose major partner is often seen at Parkhead, no conflict of interest there at all.
Most cases of tax evasion and attempted tax evastion don't lead to criminal charges. The owners of The old Rangers were found guilty of tax evasion by virtue of the fact that they were hit with tax bills.
Although they are appealing the big tax decision, they didn't appeal against the guilty decision in what is known as the wee tax case.
The investigation by the BDO hasn't even started yet so don't discount criminal prosecutions yet. These things take time and the BDO will follow every available paper trail.
It's almost laughable that there is a suggestion that this new tribute club were in anyway entitled to any prize money from the old club, but has no responsibility for the money stolen from every man, woman and chld in this country. :(
It saddens me that there is still a large body of Rangers fans who seem intent on trying to deflect attention of the wrongdoings of the old club by sullying the name of perfectably respectable individuals and firms. There is no conflict of interest. The law society itself says so and surely you won't suggest that they are a body loaded with Celtic sympathisers.
Deflect and blame others is still the order of the day and instead of actually trying to start afresh with this new club, they're letting a yorkshire barra boy pick their pockets. Hated one week, plays the bigot card, and the season ticket sales go through the roof. Do you think he's in it for the love of the club? :rolleyes:
LondonRoad
07-09-2012, 20:14
The investigation into the alleged use of dual contracts by the old Rangers starts next week.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19521501
I don't think the qualifications or independence of that panel can be seriously questioned by fans of Rangers/Sevco.
Oops. Looks like the SFA/SPL attempt to steal some trophies has hit a few snags with the leaking of the proposed punishments before anyone had been found guilty or any independent panel proposed.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/leaguedivision3/4552496/SFLs-EBT-Fury.html#ixzz27FDUquJl
“When we received the letter on June 25 it hadn’t been discussed in any shape or form. It was simply presented to us and we felt its contents, frankly, were outrageous.
“It smacked of a witchhunt and we said we wouldn’t be party to it.
“Charles Green was quoted during the week as saying the whole process investigating Rangers was ‘fundamentally misconceived’ and we agree with that 100 per cent.
“It’s clear from the documents you have seen that sanctions were being openly discussed before anyone had been found guilty of anything.
In other news it looks like the halloween party at Parkhead started early with most of the fans dressed like this. Official attendance 41,000...
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2012/09/12.jpg :D
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2012/09/11.jpg
LondonRoad
24-09-2012, 16:40
Oops. Looks like the SFA/SPL attempt to steal some trophies has hit a few snags with the leaking of the proposed punishments before anyone had been found guilty or any independent panel proposed.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/leaguedivision3/4552496/SFLs-EBT-Fury.html#ixzz27FDUquJl
The Sun is such a reliable source of truth when it suits your own agenda. This is hardly news. It's contents have been known about for quite a while and the whole story can be summed up in one sentence.
"Chucky Green has shares to sell"
The "without prejudice" draft document became an irrelvence as soon as the attempt to have Chucky's team shoehorned into Div 1 failed.
I thought the concepts proposed in the document would be familiar to somebody in your line of work ;) Is it any different than being offered a fixed fine penalty (or whatever it's called). You pay up or you take your chance in at a later day and may have a greater penalty/punishment imposed.
... the only difference in this case was that no punishment was to be imposed. Rangers/The Rangers/Sevco were only asked to accept the consequences of their wrongdoing.
I love this thread. It's vastly more entertaining than any actual Scottish football.
I love this thread. It's vastly more entertaining than any actual Scottish football.
Certainly anything in the SPHell...
LondonRoad
24-09-2012, 17:07
In other news it looks like the halloween party at Parkhead started early with most of the fans dressed like this. Official attendance 41,000...
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2012/09/11.jpg
The standards of the Sun reporting are spreading to the honesty of your posting.... so to fill in the blanks and allow CFers to have the the complete story
The picture Derek has chose to show you is the part of the ground that would be occupied by Rangers supporters if they had still been part of the SPL. Season tickets for those seats therefore exclude "matches involving Rangers or their replacement". The replacement club is Dundee as featured in this match.
Did you know? ;), despite all the claims of world records for 4th tier matches, more people have attended Celtic Matches than Rangers this season. This is despite the higher prices required to attend football matches in the top tier and European football.
I do find it kind of sad that even at this stage Rangers fans are looking to blame everybody else for their problems rather than take the opportunity to start afresh and save their own club. They'll blame Celtic and some other clubs?, SFA, SPL, HMRC and journalists when all the time the problems stemmed from within Ibrox.... and it's still happening.
---------- Post added at 17:07 ---------- Previous post was at 17:06 ----------
Certainly anything in the SPHell...
Seen much SPL football this year Deek? :D
The picture Derek has chose to show you is the part of the ground that would be occupied by Rangers supporters if they had still been part of the SPL. Season tickets for those seats therefore exclude "matches involving Rangers or their replacement". The replacement club is Dundee as featured in this match.
Did you know? ;), despite all the claims of world records for 4th tier matches, more people have attended Celtic Matches than Rangers this season. This is despite the higher prices required to attend football matches in the top tier and European football.
I forgot the management ripped off their fans by not refunding the higher costs of season tickets bought by fans when they thought they might get to see two games a year featuring the mighty Glasgow Rangers. :D
Even if the rest of the stadium is full 41k for a Saturday afternoon game not on TV is laughable.
Still starting with 48,251 'fans' for the season opener (even though curiously only 41,250 came through the gates (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/128580/response/312915/attach/html/3/response%20letter.pdf.html), surely making up for the Kelly years when the taxman was diddled out of revenue by massive under-reporting of income) and dropping to 41,073 shows just how faithful TGFITW are. :D
Seen much SPL football this year Deek? :D
Not much, not really a fan of dull, pointless matches.
I heard a great joke the other day. (FYI My grandad was a massive Ranger fan, and I support them in his memory)
"I can't wait to see Rangers in 3D... Sorry D3":D
LondonRoad
24-09-2012, 18:33
I forgot the management ripped off their fans by not refunding the higher costs of season tickets bought by fans when they thought they might get to see two games a year featuring the mighty Glasgow Rangers. :D
Even if the rest of the stadium is full 41k for a Saturday afternoon game not on TV is laughable.
You're spending far too much energy looking at others rather than what's happening at Ibrox. It's really no wonder your club is being pickpocketed by another barra boy.
To put you right... again.... Season tickets were sold on matches against Rangers or their replacement.This was clearly stipulated. Not one season ticket was sold on any other basis. No rip off invoved. The majority of season tickets weren't renewed until it was clear that the new Rangers wouldn't be allowed back into the SPL. This was the case for all SPL clubs. The cheating wasn't to be rewarded.
The SPL and the SFA did everything it could to let you back into the SPL. It was football fans with understanding of the cheating you got away with that didn't, and still don't, want you.
If you want to see dishonesty from management, have a wee look in your own backyard. Some of Chucky's statements are comedy gold.... 3 billionaires, 6 players from the Euros, 45000 at Ibrox on Saturday:D........still he's happy as long as you keep funding his escape plan:D
You'll find a table of Europe's top attended football stadium here:
http://stadiumdb.com/news/2012/09/10_ranking_europes_top_attendances_2012_edition
You'll find a table of Europe's top attended football stadium here:
http://stadiumdb.com/news/2012/09/10_ranking_europes_top_attendances_2012_edition
Hmmm, from last year, when Rangers were in the league.
*12 * Celtic FC *Celtic Park 50,904
*13 * Ajax Amsterdam *Amsterdam ArenA 50,147
*14 * Newcastle United *St. James Park 49,936
*15 * AC Milan *San Siro 49,020
*16 * 1. FC Köln *RheinEnergie Stadion 47,482
*17 * Manchester City *Etihad Stadium 47,035
*18 * Rangers FC *Ibrox Stadium *46,362
So this year so far Rangers have remained pretty static fan wise whereas almost 10,000 of TGFITW were only ever going to snake mountain to see the Rangers. :D
LondonRoad
25-09-2012, 07:37
Hmmm, from last year, when Rangers were in the league.
So this year so far Rangers have remained pretty static fan wise whereas almost 10,000 of TGFITW were only ever going to snake mountain to see the Rangers. :D
I suspect your abacus requires new batteries ;)
It is hard on the pocket following Glasgow's only SPL club. Trips to Moscow, Lisbon and Barcelona tend to hit the resources more than trips to Peterhead, Annan and Elgin. Probably not as time consuming though ;)
Nice to see the SPL leaders given a hiding by 3rd division minnows Rangers tonight. :D
More fans in Ibrox than in 6 league cup games combined last night. Thats with the game live on TV as well.
Enjoy your next game against Forres Mechanics (capacity 1,476)....:D
tbf, it's really good that the second-best team in the Third Division beat the best team in the Premier.....
LondonRoad
26-09-2012, 22:17
Nice to see the SPL leaders given a hiding by 3rd division minnows Rangers tonight. :D
More fans in Ibrox than in 6 league cup games combined last night. Thats with the game live on TV as well.
World record for a 4th tier team beating the leaders of the top league probably.:rolleyes:
How envious other teams must be :erm:
Omg someone has something to try and prove to the rest of us?
LondonRoad
26-09-2012, 23:04
Omg someone has something to try and prove to the rest of us?
Crime pays?:D
It's actually quite an astute lesson in business acumen by Chucky Green.
He's got the fans of the former Rangers onboard by playing the bigot card, the "everybody hates us card" and the "but others have done worse" lies.
The gullible ones seem to have a truth dyslexia and would rather hang onto the words that reaffirm in their puggled brains that they are the people. Totally deluded.
They don't see the irony that they were celebrating a victory in the 3rd round of the Communities Cup against a team that has a quarter of their wage bill.
Their boast of the crowds are laughable (quite a few complimentary tickets being handed out for home league matches apparently). Somebody on another site compared it to Primark boasting about their footfall compared to that of Harrods. :D
Meanwhile the rest of the country can see Chucky for what he is and he's filling his swag bag with the blue pound.
Media Boy UK
26-09-2012, 23:25
Nice to see the SPL leaders given a hiding by 3rd division minnows Rangers tonight. :D
More fans in Ibrox than in 6 league cup games combined last night. Thats with the game live on TV as well.
I hope Rangers do well in this cup - Hoping to see an Celtic V Rangers game in next round or Final.
We got Celtic on Saturday :banghead:
(Motherwell fan)
LondonRoad
26-09-2012, 23:29
I hope Rangers do well in this cup - Hoping to see an Celtic V Rangers game in next round or Final.
We got Celtic on Saturday :banghead:
(Motherwell fan)
Motherwell are worth a bet on Saturday. The players had a good rest tonight. :D
Media Boy UK
26-09-2012, 23:31
Motherwell are worth a bet on Saturday. The players had a good rest tonight. :D
I see that Sky and ESPN think Celtic will win.
Sky - no game
ESPN - Aberdeen VS Hibs.
BBC Alba - Motherwell VS Celtic - Kick off 3pm (Shown as Live at 5.30pm)
LondonRoad
26-09-2012, 23:35
I see that Sky and ESPN think Celtic will win.
Sky - no game
ESPN - Aberdeen VS Hibs.
I think this was originally pencilled in as a Sunday kick off on Sky but Celtic's match in Moscow on Tuesday scuppered it as ESPN already had the Saturday game.
Edit; I haven't checked if this is accurate but somebody posted that this is Celtic's first 3pm away kick for 8 years! i'm sure I must have misheard!
Anyhoo the whole game is on BBC Alba at 5.30 on Saturday evening.
Edit: Twas Radio Scotland's Richard Gordon that claimed Celtic's last 3pm away quick off was Oct 2005 agains Livingston. I was obviously exagerating saying it was 8 years :D
Omg someone has something to try and prove to the rest of us?
Just that Rangers are better supported than other teams. :)
Their boast of the crowds are laughable (quite a few complimentary tickets being handed out for home league matches apparently).
Strange. I've heard the same about free tickets being handed out for a certain stadium in the east end of Glasgow to charities and youth groups in an attempt to bolster crowds.
Still you can't blame people for preferring to go to a marvellous listed building and take in its history and brilliance over some breeze block monstrosity that's lucky Glasgow city council are chucking money at it to tart it up for 2014 before it falls down. ;)
LondonRoad
27-09-2012, 07:24
Just that Rangers are better supported than other teams. :)
Great support.:rolleyes: How well did that fighting fund do? :D Not even as much as Northern Rugby Clubs can raise. They don't have the mythical worldwide fan base.
How successfull have previous share issues been?
How may shares will fans owe in the club once Chucky's escape plan has been funded? I already know the answer, do you?;)
Is this what Rangers are reduced to? Boasting about the front of their stadium while forgetting about the rest of the asbestos ridden bigot dome that requires millions spent on it.
It's all going well in the SPHell....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19970984
Hearts wage bill overdue for second successive month
And just coming out the woodwork now is this (https://twitter.com/BBCBMcLauchlin/status/258287977321619459).
BBC Scotland learn Hearts had transfer ban imposed after salaries were late last month. Issue will be discussed again by SPL board on Monday
Whatever happened to transparency? How poor is the journalism in Scotland that it takes a month to report on transfer bans being imposed.
I also hear Motherwell are in severe trouble with the manager buying water for training sessions out his own pocket each week and players being asked to take very significant wage cuts.
LondonRoad
18-10-2012, 00:52
It's all going well in the SPHell....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19970984
And just coming out the woodwork now is this (https://twitter.com/BBCBMcLauchlin/status/258287977321619459).
Whatever happened to transparency? How poor is the journalism in Scotland that it takes a month to report on transfer bans being imposed.
I also hear Motherwell are in severe trouble with the manager buying water for training sessions out his own pocket each week and players being asked to take very significant wage cuts.
For somebody who has no interest in the SPL you seem to revel in any potential negative events. ;) Not that you would be hoping for any clubs to go into administration....?
For your own peace of mind Deek, I can assure that there is no way that any current SPL club will go into liquidation owing us much as the ex-Rangers. That's your own wee world record that your club took to it's grave. ;) Pity they're deid or we could have put a wee star on their shirt for that.
On a more positive note, I've registered a £50K interest in purchasing shares in this new Glasgow Club fronted by Chucky Green. Are you in Deek? :D
Henkesghost
18-10-2012, 05:59
:D Their own delusion and sense of entitlement is what brought them down before. Looks like the zombies are well on their way to doing it again. :)
Barca on Tuesday ;)
For somebody who has no interest in the SPL you seem to revel in any potential negative events. ;) Not that you would be hoping for any clubs to go into administration....?
It is the Scottish football thread, not an SPL thread or SFL 1/2/3 thread. I would have thought a news item about one of the bigger clubs not being able to pay players (again) would have been of interest to some and them being hit with a punishment that was kept secret showed just how desperate and untransparent the SPHell are.
---------- Post added at 09:29 ---------- Previous post was at 09:28 ----------
Barca on Tuesday ;)
Don't worry, I'm sure that will see a return to form for celtic in away European games. What is it? 4 points from a possible 63?
LondonRoad
18-10-2012, 10:05
Don't worry, I'm sure that will see a return to form for celtic in away European games. What is it? 4 points from a possible 63?
... shocking record isn't it? We'd probably have more away points in the CL than that if we'd cheated over the years though;)
Celtic have still had more away wins in Europe this season than The Sevco have had in SFL 3. :D
[QUOTE=Derek;35486267]It is the Scottish football thread, not an SPL thread or SFL 1/2/3 thread. I would have thought a news item about one of the bigger clubs not being able to pay players (again) would have been of interest to some and them being hit with a punishment that was kept secret showed just how desperate and untransparent the SPHell are.[COLOR="Silver"]
---------- Post added at 09:29 ---------- Previous post was at 09:28 ----------
Not sure about being kept secret.
Henkesghost
20-10-2012, 06:32
Tick tock tick tock tick tock BOOM!! Big Tax Case result GUILTY!!!
Tick tock tick tock tick tock BOOM!! Big Tax Case result GUILTY!!!
Any link to back this up? Or is it another 'exclusive' from he failed social worker and pensioner killer?
LondonRoad
20-10-2012, 11:09
Any link to back this up? Or is it another 'exclusive' from he failed social worker and pensioner killer?
I hope you've had a saucer of milk and finished cleaning your fur since that post Deek ;)
To be pedantic; the guilty verdict in the big tax case was delivered a couple of years ago.
I'm sure that Henke is referring to the result of the appeal. No link as yet but lots of tweets from normally reliable sources that the appeal result was as expected and is in the hands of D&P, Murray and Whyte. I'm sure your renowned detective skills will find these quicker than I can embed them :)
*snip*
That'll be a no then.
LondonRoad
20-10-2012, 11:59
That'll be a no then.
No detective skills or still in denial? ;)
Rangers Tax-Case @rangerstaxcase
Formal release will be within 1-2 weeks at most. Expect leaks & spin before then.
Rangers Tax-Case @rangerstaxcase
FTT decision was signed off at the end of September on schedule and was with both MIH & HMRC yesterday.
Henkesghost
20-10-2012, 12:22
I hope you've had a saucer of milk and finished cleaning your fur since that post Deek ;)
To be pedantic; the guilty verdict in the big tax case was delivered a couple of years ago.
I'm sure that Henke is referring to the result of the appeal. No link as yet but lots of tweets from normally reliable sources that the appeal result was as expected and is in the hands of D&P, Murray and Whyte. I'm sure your renowned detective skills will find these quicker than I can embed them :)
That'll be a no then.
Burying your heads in the sand was a huge factor in killing the club you used to support. Don't bother refuting the used to and same club nonsense, cos if it is Charlie Bhoy Green owes the nation 100 million bangers!
Typical Celtc fans, always more obsessed with their more successful city neighbours.
We'll be having another proper sell out today without having to fiddle the attendance figures.
Henkesghost
20-10-2012, 12:39
Typical Celtc fans, always more obsessed with their more successful city neighbours.
We'll be having another proper sell out today without having to fiddle the attendance figures.
:):):) Aye I wish it was us ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
LondonRoad
20-10-2012, 12:52
Typical Celtc fans, always more obsessed with their more successful city neighbours.
We'll be having another proper sell out today without having to fiddle the attendance figures.
Typical fan of the club formerly known as Rangers.
The obsession of the biggest cheating scandal ever in British Football isn't restricted to Celtic fans. Anybody with a sense of what's wrong and right and sporting integrity is interested in seeing those responsilbe held accountable.
How's that march through the lower leagues while making friends along the way going? :D
Chucky Green slagging off Aston Villa during the week.... one of the few clubs to have won the big cup that Rangers died before winning:rolleyes:
Let the title stripping begin :D
2-0 to the hoops is the latest score by the way in today's televised game from the big league.
Henkesghost
20-10-2012, 12:57
Ambrose's celebration :D:DTony Watt been outstanding
The obsession of the biggest cheating scandal ever in British Football isn't restricted to Celtic fans.
Just not the biggest scandal in British football. There are a few major skeletons in the cupboard of other clubs and their activities in the past. :dozey:
LondonRoad
20-10-2012, 13:44
Just not the biggest scandal in British football. There are a few major skeletons in the cupboard of other clubs and their activities in the past. :dozey:
Typical fan of the ex-Rangers. If you spent less time worrying about other matters you might have saved your club.
Died being champions of whitaboutery
Great game from the Hoops today :)
Henkesghost
21-10-2012, 08:38
Great game from the Hoops today :)
It was Stephen. With the Internationals thankfully out the way we can look forward to this team clicking. Think they are the best since Henrik, Sutty, Big Bad John etc and will improve as we're still a very young side.
Roll on Tuesday, it's only Barca away :shocked:
Arthurgray50@blu
21-10-2012, 12:10
Not being a Celtc fan, l think that when they play Barca, They will find out how to play football and get hammered.
And they won't have Scottish official to give them any decisions. As far as l am concerned Scottish football is finished, and with the problems arising with Hearts,what other big club could be going under.
Henkesghost
21-10-2012, 12:59
Not being a Celtc fan, l think that when they play Barca, They will find out how to play football and get hammered.
And they won't have Scottish official to give them any decisions. As far as l am concerned Scottish football is finished, and with the problems arising with Hearts,what other big club could be going under.
:D:D:D Thanks, great insight. You got the we may well get hammered bit right and then fell away badly :dozey:
Arthurgray50@blu
21-10-2012, 18:36
Sorry but Celtic used to be a powerful side many years ago, but they would not last five minutes in the EPL.
LondonRoad
21-10-2012, 19:05
Sorry but Celtic used to be a powerful side many years ago, but they would not last five minutes in the EPL.
You're wrong.
Celtic may struggle initially but once they had access to the same resources as the rest of the EPL they would become a force to be reckoned with. They are a far larger Club than the majority of the EPL clubs.
Henkesghost
21-10-2012, 19:26
Sorry but Celtic used to be a powerful side many years ago, but they would not last five minutes in the EPL.
I would look at Celtic's results against English teams in Europe. London Road is spot on.
Arthurgray50@blu
21-10-2012, 19:45
London Road, you must be a Celtic fan. The large majority of PL clubs DON'T want Celtic or Rangers.
Celtic are not as powerful as people reckon, about 15 years ago l followed Celtic, as my wife's family are Celtic fans are mad on them, but they have lost there way and that's why l personally believe that they would last against the likes of Liverpool, Chelsea or Man City.
Henkesghost
21-10-2012, 19:56
No way Celtic could currently compete with Man City or Chelsea but Liverpool are pretty poor just now. The Premiership has 6 to 8 decent sides but it also has a lot of poor sides in it Wigan, QPR, Norwich, Villa etc. Celtic would in my opinion be mid table initially but could challenge for top 6 within 3 years.
Sorry to hear you no longer like Celtic, it must be a great loss ;)
Erm, Arthur, without Celtic and/or Rangers in the SPL, I doubt very much if it would survive, as the average attendance this year (including Celtic with an average attendance of over 45k) is 9,659 - link.... (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/stats/attendance/_/league/sco.1/scottish-premier-league?cc=5739#)
LondonRoad
21-10-2012, 20:26
Erm, Arthur, without Celtic and/or Rangers in the SPL, I doubt very much if it would survive, as the average attendance this year (including Celtic with an average attendance of over 45k) is 9,659 - link.... (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/stats/attendance/_/league/sco.1/scottish-premier-league?cc=5739#)
I disagree. The league would have to cut it's cloth to suit but it would still be a very competitive league.
I've made this point before but it is valid. In the years between both old firms achieving 9 in a row, the top league in Scotland was very competitive. Aberdeen and Dundee United won league titles, Aberdeen won European trophies, and Hearts and Hibs regularly challenged for trophies.
Remove Celtic from the equation and the league would be far more competitive every season. The average attendances of the other clubs are likely to increase if they had a realistic chance of winning the league. If you look at the attendances of European Countries outwith the big 4, Scottish clubs are quite well supported.
I'd prefer Celtic to remain in the top league in Scotland and I hope that, in time, somebody comes out of the pack to mount a challenge.
Arthurgray50@blu
21-10-2012, 23:04
Hi London Road, I have been a football fan all my life and l am now nearly 61. When l was in my twenties, l went to home anad away games in England and Scotland, and both were very strong, Abedreen and Motherwell were very strong sides who couldn't touch Celtic or Rangers, l remember the days of the wee big man Johnson who played for Celtic.
I went to an old firm derby and it was big time football, and l went to Hearts and you could not get a seat in these grounds. Football in Scotland was big and could not be beaten by the English clubs. There was always big support for Scottish football, but sadly now when l see Scottish football, you see so many empty seats, and l believe that clubs now offer discounts to the fans that have hit hard times.
Scottish football at one time was big major stuff, its almost certain that Celtic will win the SPL and Rangers will get promoted.
Please don't get me wrong, football is not as strong as it was in Scotland and the clubs are suffering, and the players would not survive in the pace of EPL.
Thats why l said that if Celtic or any Scottish club would not survive in the EPL due to the pace of the game.
Spurs bought a player many years ago called Jones from a Scottish club and took him and played him alongside Steve Archibald, a Scot and sadly he didn't get to the pace that Tottenham wanted in the old First Division.
I watch for the results each week for Inverness Ally as l have a soft spot for them after watching a documentary on them several years ago, a fan from London flew up to Scotland each week to watch them play each week. (no it wasn't me|)
Henkesghost
24-10-2012, 07:20
Think Celtic have proved with a win away in Moscow a draw against Benfica and a right good go against the best team in the world in their own midden that we would more than hold our own in the Premiership. Very very proud of this very young side and Lenny :)
Arthurgray50@blu
24-10-2012, 14:22
Henkeghost, I watched this game and felt they played well, but they were totally outplayed by Barca.
They have got to play better at Parkhead, and even l shouted at the tv when Celtic conceded at the end, Clubs like Celtic cannot allow Barca ANY space as they will puinish them, this is why the are the best club in the world.
Henkesghost
24-10-2012, 18:07
Celtic cannot allow Barca ANY space as they will puinish them, this is why the are the best club in the world.
Exactly, that along with our other European results over the past couple of seasons have proved we are good enough for the Premiership. Not to win it but to compete. How do you think Wigan, QPR, Reading, Norwich, Villa, Southampton, Stoke etc would cope in the Nou Camp or against Udinese, Rennes, Spartak or Benfica? You think they would cope better? The premiership has some great sides that are way better than Celtic but also a lot of dross. Over hyped. Like you say we were playing what many think are the best club side ever and we coped. We have beaten these other sides recently too along with Milan,Juventus , Man Utd, Liverpool etc in the last few years.
Arthurgray50@blu
24-10-2012, 18:18
Celtic are a great side - not as good as bygon years, what l am saying is that they have got to up there game for the return game.
Wigan, Norwich or QPR would get slaughtered against Barca as they are not up to that standard of European football. Barca are the elite in football, like the SAS in the army.
Henkesghost
24-10-2012, 18:43
Celtic are a great side - not as good as bygon years, what l am saying is that they have got to up there game for the return game.
Wigan, Norwich or QPR would get slaughtered against Barca as they are not up to that standard of European football. Barca are the elite in football, like the SAS in the army.
Agree m8 that's what I mean, Celtic are still good enough to survive in the EPL which has a dozen poor to average sides. Anyway Killie at the weekend.
Agree m8 that's what I mean, Celtic are still good enough to survive in the EPL which has a dozen poor to average sides. Anyway Killie at the weekend.
I think Celtic would struggle against EPL sides. Championship sides would cause them issues.
Don't confuse a one off game as being great. Rubin beat barcelona a couple of years ago.
Think Celtic have proved with a win away in Moscow a draw against Benfica and a right good go against the best team in the world in their own midden that we would more than hold our own in the Premiership. Very very proud of this very young side and Lenny :)
Are you having a laugh?
Rangers play defensively away in Europe and get slaughtered in the press for playing 'anti-football'. Celtic get run ragged round the pitch and park the bus in front of the goals and all of a sudden lemon is a tactical genius.
http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=2013/matches/round=2000347/match=2009533/postmatch/statistics/index.html#1/2013/2000347/2009533/pitch-view/influence
90/10 possession in favour of Barca. If it wasn't for the EPL reject in goals it would have been a cricket score.
---------- Post added at 06:53 ---------- Previous post was at 06:50 ----------
The average attendances of the other clubs are likely to increase if they had a realistic chance of winning the league. If you look at the attendances of European Countries outwith the big 4, Scottish clubs are quite well supported.
Was that not the rubbish spouted when Rangers were kicked out the league? That attendances would soar with a new competitiveness for European football each year.
How's that working out for them then?
---------- Post added at 06:57 ---------- Previous post was at 06:53 ----------
(including Celtic with an average attendance of over 45k)
In their dreams. Funnily enough the actual attendance figures at games this year has been consistently 10k or so below the reported figure. Even for 3PM Saturday games not on TV they are lucky if Snake Mountain is half full.
Henkesghost
25-10-2012, 09:09
Are you having a laugh?
Rangers play defensively away in Europe and get slaughtered in the press for playing 'anti-football'. Celtic get run ragged round the pitch and park the bus in front of the goals and all of a sudden lemon is a tactical genius.
http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=2013/matches/round=2000347/match=2009533/postmatch/statistics/index.html#1/2013/2000347/2009533/pitch-view/influence
90/10 possession in favour of Barca. If it wasn't for the EPL reject in goals it would have been a cricket score.
---------- Post added at 06:53 ---------- Previous post was at 06:50 ----------
Was that not the rubbish spouted when Rangers were kicked out the league? That attendances would soar with a new competitiveness for European football each year.
How's that working out for them then?
---------- Post added at 06:57 ---------- Previous post was at 06:53 ----------
In their dreams. Funnily enough the actual attendance figures at games this year has been consistently 10k or so below the reported figure. Even for 3PM Saturday games not on TV they are lucky if Snake Mountain is half full.
What a lot of absolute deluded nonsense:rolleyes:
Arthurgray50@blu
25-10-2012, 13:12
What saddens me in the SPL and also EPL is the lack of attendances in overall competitions.
I was watching a cup game recently, the ground was nearly empty, and l know that this is the 'scottish' thread, but the lack of crowds in the various comps no matter what the club, the crowds are porr which goes to show that fans can longer afford to get into grounds.
What a lot of absolute deluded nonsense:rolleyes:
So when Rangers were derided for playing anti-football a few years back did you disagree?
LondonRoad
25-10-2012, 13:28
Are you having a laugh?
Rangers play defensively away in Europe and get slaughtered in the press for playing 'anti-football'. Celtic get run ragged round the pitch and park the bus in front of the goals and all of a sudden lemon is a tactical genius.
.
Only a non-football person or a Celtic hater could compare Rangers all out defence against the likes of Panathiniakos with the display of Neil Lennon's men against the team that is widely regarded as the best in the world.
It was the class of Barca that pushed Celtic back - not by adopting Uncle Walter tactics. Celtic began with 2 up front whereas the only offensive thing about Rangers in Europe was the behaviour of their bigotted fans.
---------- Post added at 06:53 ---------- Previous post was at 06:50 ----------
Was that not the rubbish spouted when Rangers were kicked out the league? That attendances would soar with a new competitiveness for European football each year.
How's that working out for them then?
---------- Post added at 06:57 ---------- Previous post was at 06:53 ----------
In their dreams. Funnily enough the actual attendance figures at games this year has been consistently 10k or so below the reported figure. Even for 3PM Saturday games not on TV they are lucky if Snake Mountain is half full.
Snake Mountain? Don't know where that is. The only snakes I'm aware of in Glasgow are those slithering over the corpse of your former club.
You haven't answered yet Deek? How many shares are you in for;)
Are you going by official Strathclyde Police figures? Chucky Green's wild estimates from the Bigotdome don't bear up to comparison with those ;)
*snip*
Ah OK then. So defending like their lives depended on it is OK for celtic and their team of £25 million rated superstars :rofl: but bad if its Rangers when reduced to 10 men.
Are you going by official Strathclyde Police figures? Chucky Green's wild estimates from the Bigotdome don't bear up to comparison with those
Nope just going by my eyes. Most of the games I've seen from Ibrox are a glorious sea of red, white and blue whereas most of the games from the Glasgow City Council arena have the 'fans' going all out for halloween early dressed as green seats.
Anyway away from the good (Rangers), the bad (celtic) and the ugly (Lennon) it looks like Mad Vlad might have something else to worry about aside from checking down the back of the sofa for change to pay his players with and who is going to buy Tynecastle when Hearts fold.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/oct/26/hearts-revenue-customs-tribunal-tax-bill?mobile-redirect=false
Hearts have been issued with a bill for £1.75m which HMRC claims is due in taxation for a batch of players on loan at Tynecastle from the Lithuanian club FBK Kaunas up to seven years ago
Oops. Still at least their recently announced share issue might cover the shortfall. :D
Hearts have launched a share issue seeking £1.79m from supporters in exchange for a 10% stake in the club; Tynecastle insiders are adamant the close proximity of that figure to the tax issue is purely coincidental.
LondonRoad
26-10-2012, 22:59
So Rangers only played with 10 men throughout Uncle Walter's reign. :shocked:
Deluded or what.? Smith only played the one way, home or away. If he had the option to play a bonus player he'd have played 5-5-1.
It's beginning to get a bit boring to have to keep pointing out that your stats don't actually bear any resemblence to real facts....it's beginning to feel a bit like the "explaining debt to a hun" video.
Celtic did only have 26% possession (official UEFA stat - not the 10% quoted by you and some sections of the Scottish media), but anybody with half a football brain could see that the loss of Samaras contributed greatly to the lack of out ball.
So your new fascination with crowds doesn't extend to any actual factual evidence.:erm: Distort and deflect
Can you explain to me why the followers of this new club have this fascination for crowd figures?
I use the word followers because it's yet to be proven if there are supporters of this zombie club or it's just an excuse for a bigotted gathering on the south side of Glasgow every couple of weeks.
Your old club were the 2nd best supported club in Glasgow. Just because there's a bigotfest every couple of weeks and they only charge half a crown to get in doesn't make it a well supported team. The litmus test will be how much of the giro money goes to buying shares or not.
How much are you in for Deek? ;)
I see you focus on Hearts predicament (do you see any irony?). Does it hurt when you read the positive news from the SPL?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20084786
I agree with Londonroad, trying to compare Ranger's anti-football with Celtic's defensive play is chalk and cheese.
Rangers were happy to keep 10 men behind the ball. Celtic attacked, albeit gave ball away too quickly to capitalise.
So your new fascination with crowds doesn't extend to any actual factual evidence.:erm: Distort and deflect
Distort and deflect. Coming from a follower of celtic that takes irony to a new level.
Can you explain to me why the followers of this new club have this fascination for crowd figures?
Possibly because the other SPL club followers were going out of their way to gloat over the predicament of Rangers saying the fans would fade away. Since then the crowds have stayed static and even improved on last year. Other clubs can't say the same.
I use the word followers because it's yet to be proven if there are supporters of this zombie club or it's just an excuse for a bigotted gathering on the south side of Glasgow every couple of weeks.
:rolleyes:
Ah the usual. Can't win an argument so resort to petty slurs.
How much are you in for Deek? ;)
None of your business. Just like I'm not interested in how many shares you have from any of celtics many share issues over the years.
I see you focus on Hearts predicament (do you see any irony?). Does it hurt when you read the positive news from the SPL?
Whenever there is any positive news I'll let you know. :D
Still with hearts circling the drain I hope there is the same witch hunt against them.
Living outwith their means? - Check.
Using tax avoidance schemes which HMRC say are illegal? - Check.
Allegedly having players incorrectly registered? - Check.
Seems they should be on their way to SPL3 in the name of sporting integrity.
---------- Post added at 20:23 ---------- Previous post was at 20:21 ----------
I agree with Londonroad, trying to compare Ranger's anti-football with Celtic's defensive play is chalk and cheese.
Whatever. I agree with the Rayo Vallecano coach (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/1203108/rayo-coach-insists-he-won%27t-be-fearful-against-barca?cc=5739#).
"I could use the same approach as Celtic, but personally I would be too ashamed to look fans in the eye," Jemez said.
LondonRoad
27-10-2012, 21:58
Poor poor hurting Derek.
Petty slurs :shocked: The slurs were started by you and you're correct I shouldn't have lowered myself to your level. Have a look through some of your posts when you refer to Celtic and you might realise that you're the champ at petty slurs. You could get another star on your shirt for that ;)
It matters not to me what you say about our stadium, our team or whether our manager is ugly or not. :rolleyes:
Your club is dead because you allowed it to die. Even when the truth is readily available you have still tried to defend Murray and put all the blame on Whyte. Only Sevco fans can't see that they're still being fleeced.... by the current owners, by the Scottish Media and by the football authorities.
If Hearts tick all the boxes you claim then they should face the consequences.
There was no witchhunt. Scottish football fans only wanted justice. It's ironic that Sevco fans are paranoid about what happened to their former club. You seem to fail to understand that the consequences should have been that you ceased to exist. That's what liquidation means. There should be no senior football, the new club should be starting at a non-league level and working it's way up. You were given a helping hand. The SPL and The SFA put out every scare story possible to warn the football public about armageddon. There was no demotion of your club to SFL3. The licence ceased to exist. Every rule possible was twisted so that you could apply to join the SFL. They even tried their best to shoehorn you into the top level of the SFL but fan power put paid that too.
The message that you fail to comprehend is that armageddon is prefarable to distorting the rules to favour one club. Sporting integrity is paramount to any competition.
You should have let your club die with dignity.
Once again concur with Londonroad.
If hearts broke the rules they should get punished.
But the bitternness coming from Derek is not about justice, but striven from a feeling of injustice. The "how dare they punish Rangers" syndrome.
Lashing out everywhere, because Rangers got their due punishment for cheating, is just sad.
But the bitternness coming from Derek is not about justice, but striven from a feeling of injustice. The "how dare they punish Rangers" syndrome.
Lashing out everywhere, because Rangers got their due punishment for cheating, is just sad.
Wrong once again. Rangers have been punished, and I have no problem with that, for their 'crimes'
What I do have an issue with is the vindictiveness shown to them and the intention to hammer them for everything, regardless of its rights and wrongs and the way rules are made up on the fly to suit whatever, or whoevers, agenda.
Yes Rangers used EBT's but so did at least one other club. At least Rangers declared their use every year. Surely if there was a problem this should have been spotted after one year and not just waved through until 10 years down the line.
What happens? Rangers get a punishment decided upon and then a kangaroo court convened to justify the punishment where the other club get told their use was OK and no investigation is needed. Maybe they were just living up to their charitable history :rofl: by giving a player a big chunk of money not declared after he had stopped playing for them. :rolleyes:
Forgive me for laughing when a bunch of other clubs circle the drain despite their protests that "we don't need Rangers" and look forward to them receiving the exact same punishment for Rangers in the name of 'sporting integrity'
Yes Rangers used EBT's but so did at least one other club. At least Rangers declared their use every year. Surely if there was a problem this should have been spotted after one year and not just waved through until 10 years down the line.
As said many times in this thread. Using EBT's is ok, illegally using them, a no no.
Rangers, were on the "no no" side, and were stupid at it.
LondonRoad
29-10-2012, 20:17
Let’s see if we can remove some of the delusions surrounding this and burst some of the myths. The truth is readily available if you really want to know it.
EBTs are perfectly legal when they are properly used. The way that they were used can be divided 3 ways in terms of how they were utilised by Rangers.
1. The correct way. A discretionary, non contractual payment. This may have been how some of the Rangers EBTs were utilised, e.g. Sir Minty creamed off £6M to himself.
2. The pay off EBT. Used to buy out a players contract. Deemed by HMRC to be liable for tax. There is no side letter or second contract because it’s used to terminate the contract. This is the type of EBT set up for Billy Dodds and Junhino.
Celtic, on the advice of HMRC, subsequently paid the tax which is why they don’t have a case to answer. Junhino wasn’t paid any more than was stipulated in the original contract submitted to the authorities. Again, Move along, nothing to see there.
3. The contractual EBT. Players had side letters, aka second contracts, promising them EBT payments as part of their football duties. This misuse of the scheme is not only tax evasion but breaks every football rule on registering players. The consequence of fielding improperly registered players is the automatic awarding of the match 3-0 to the opposition. Note that this is a consequence, not a punishment.
In case the use of the names Celtic and Rangers is fogging the issue for you, let’s compare two Scottish teams in a parallel universe:
Perth City and Perth United are deadly rivals, both have similar sized crowds and sponsorship deals, etc. Perth United and Perth City are both keen to sign Joe Smith, Perth City offer 10K a week because anything more would break their budget. He signs for Perth United and the player is registered as a United player on a salary of £8K a week.
It later transpires that Joe Smith had an EBT that paid him £3K a week. Perth United can only afford this because they don’t have to pay tax, employers NI etc on the additional income.
Now, that’s unfair to all the other teams in any competition that Perth Utd are entered into.
Not paying tax is also unfair on all the Government departments who have had their budgets cut, and by extension unfair on all the users of those services: NHS patients, Frontline soldiers, social services. I’ve even heard that some police departments have suffered ;)
You’re correct that the transfer embargo was invented specifically to deal with you. You do realise that the alternative to that was a total ban. You should be grateful.
If Minty and Cardigan had imposed their own transfer ban 5 years ago you could have almost wiped out the tax you owed at that time. You’d still be the same club in the wonderfully atmospheric SPL instead of the zombie tribute band currently trading in the dungeons.
It’s really shameful to see a once proud Glasgow Club being stripped to the bones and being passed from one vulture to another. The very people who should be doing something are spending too much energy hoping that other teams fail. The obvious glee at every potential piece of bad news is as undignified as the way you allowed your club to die.
Henkesghost
01-11-2012, 06:06
:D
:D
I assume you are referring to the result last night? It must be the first time ICT have come to Glasgow and got a win in a cup game? Oh maybe not... (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1071875-20-hilarious-world-football-headlines/page/2)
Maybe your just surprised that the best supported team in Glasgow, who have lost most of their team, lost to a team several divisions above them. I'm not, it was never going to be a walkover.
---------- Post added at 11:29 ---------- Previous post was at 11:23 ----------
As said many times in this thread. Using EBT's is ok, illegally using them, a no no.
And yet when Rangers used them a list of punishments was drawn up, circulated and after that they decided to bring together a committee to justify the punishments.
When celtic used them (and quite possibly other clubs as well, despite their assertions otherwise!) there was no enquiry, no sanctions. Everything was brushed under the carpet quietly.
All the Rangers fans want it to be treated equally. That hasn't happened so far. Once hearts, motherwell and a few other clubs hit the wall hard we will see if they have the same level of bitterness directed at them.
---------- Post added at 11:29 ---------- Previous post was at 11:23 ----------
[/COLOR]
And yet when Rangers used them a list of punishments was drawn up, circulated and after that they decided to bring together a committee to justify the punishments.
When celtic used them (and quite possibly other clubs as well, despite their assertions otherwise!) there was no enquiry, no sanctions. Everything was brushed under the carpet quietly.
All the Rangers fans want it to be treated equally. That hasn't happened so far. Once hearts, motherwell and a few other clubs hit the wall hard we will see if they have the same level of bitterness directed at them.[/QUOTE]
You are missing the point. rangers were using EBT illegally. They were caught using them, and were blatantly using them illegally.
But EBT are ok..just not to supplement wages in a contractual way. At Rangers, it was part of salary, and they stated the expectation of it being used that way.
LondonRoad
01-11-2012, 22:14
Rangers fans want to be treated equally? In what way are Rangers fans being treated unfairly?
You stick your heads in the sand and try to blame everybody but the people who brought this shame on the club.
Not one person from Rangers has shown the slightest sign of contrition for years of cheating, tax evasion and probably fraud.
You'd rather push this paranoid "we are the people" attitude and show real bitterness to anybody who offers unbiased opinion based on the facts that are available for all..... if they want to know.
Society as a whole is a loser but I suppose some people gain from this... like police officers who get overtime to protect all these people being threatened by fans of this new club. :(
Newco, same colours, more shameful.
Henkesghost
04-11-2012, 11:41
Am told the Green Brigade are working on an amazing display for the Barca game. They were up at Celtic park for hours yesterday and will be again today. Can't wait for this game!!!! Probably getted whupped but hey.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2012/11/44.jpg
LondonRoad
04-11-2012, 12:31
I've heard this too. Special banner for the 125th anniversary. A great game to unveil it.
I'm working in Ayr on Wednesday and it's probable I'll have to work late:(
Is there anybody on this forum can lend me a blue flashing light for the evening ;)
We've still got the little matter of Dundee Utd today before we can look ahead to Barca though. :D
Henkesghost
04-11-2012, 12:38
No Hooper, Sammy, Forrest and obviously Stokes, bit worried about today. Not keen on Charlie in midfield either :shocked: Pity u can't make the Barca game m8 :(
LondonRoad
04-11-2012, 12:46
No Hooper, Sammy, Forrest and obviously Stokes, bit worried about today. Not keen on Charlie in midfield either :shocked: Pity u can't make the Barca game m8 :(
It gives Watt a run. Now that you've voiced your concerns about Charlie he'll probably open the scoring:D
I know what you mean though.
denphone
05-11-2012, 17:21
Craig Levein exits as Scotland coach following talks
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20205303
Am told the Green Brigade are working on an amazing display for the Barca game. They were up at Celtic park for hours yesterday and will be again today.
I see they got a Rangers fan to check their spelling this time. :dozey: :D
LondonRoad
06-11-2012, 08:05
I see they got a Rangers fan to check their spelling this time. :dozey: :D
The display is to celebrate Celtic's 125th Birthday which it today.
Harpy Burpday Celtic. 125 years of unbroken history :D
125 years of unbroken history :D
125 years since Pacific Shelf 595 was set up. Brother Waldrid had some foresight... And you would think in that time the groin brigade would be able to spell the name of their club correctly. :dunce:
http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/5981/celtcao2.jpg
LondonRoad
06-11-2012, 12:25
125 years since Pacific Shelf 595 was set up. Brother Waldrid had some foresight... And you would think in that time the groin brigade would be able to spell the name of their club correctly. :dunce:
Time to burst another of your deluded myths.
See if you can check the spelling of this. Freely available from Companies House:
Name & Registered Office:
CELTIC PLC
CELTIC PARK
GLASGOW
G40 3RE
Company No. SC003487
Status: Active
Date of Incorporation: 12/04/1897
Country of Origin: United Kingdom
Company Type: Public Limited Company
Nature of Business (SIC):
93110 - Operation of sports facilities
93120 - Activities of sport clubs
Accounting Reference Date: 30/06
Last Accounts Made Up To: 30/06/2011 (GROUP)
Next Accounts Due: 31/12/2012
Last Return Made Up To: 31/12/2011
Next Return Due: 28/01/2013
Last Members List: 31/12/2010
Last Bulk Shareholders List: 31/12/2010
Previous Names:
Date of change Previous Name
15/12/1994 THE CELTIC FOOTBALL AND ATHLETIC COMPANY LIMITED
:dunce:
If you so desire, I'll provide you with a fuller explanation of where Pacific Shelf 595 comes into it. It's really standard business, unlike not paying your taxes. ;)
Time to burst another of your deluded myths.
1897? 125th birthday?
Obviously maths isn't a strong point for your average Celtic fan either.
LondonRoad
06-11-2012, 12:49
1897? 125th birthday?
Obviously maths isn't a strong point for your average Celtic fan either.
Maybe you should have googled the meaning of incorporation before you showed your ignorance.
I'll give you a clue: Rangers(RIP) were incoporated in 1899.
Bloody facts aren't a strong point for your average Rangers fan.
Celtic were formaly constituted in a meeting on the 6th November 1887. Can you check that Maths for me?
So what you are saying is the club itself is more important than the company behind it?
LondonRoad
06-11-2012, 13:16
So what you are saying is the club itself is more important than the company behind it?
Not sure how you've got that what I've posted. Have you rearranged some of the letters or something? You haven't read what incorporation means, have you?
I was responding to your suggestion that the Pacifc shelf belonged on Celtic's History line. It doesn't, thus the unbroken history.
You should really get another source for your information. It's the myths spun by Murray moonbeams, Crooky Whyte and the latest Chucky halfwit that sunk your club.
Even Wikipedia is a reliable source of information compared to them. ;)
Henkesghost
06-11-2012, 19:42
Looks like injury list is lengthening for tomorrow :( Really looking forward to it though. Seen some amazing European nights at Celtic park including beating Barca, Man Utd, Juve, Milan etc. Can't see it tomorrow but will enjoy it none the less :)
denphone
06-11-2012, 19:44
Looks like injury list is lengthening for tomorrow :( Really looking forward to it though. Seen some amazing European nights at Celtic park including beating Barca, Man Utd, Juve, Milan etc. Can't see it tomorrow but will enjoy it none the less :)
Yes good luck to Celtic tomorrow Henke.
LondonRoad
06-11-2012, 20:11
Looks like injury list is lengthening for tomorrow :( Really looking forward to it though. Seen some amazing European nights at Celtic park including beating Barca, Man Utd, Juve, Milan etc. Can't see it tomorrow but will enjoy it none the less :)
I'm polishing my boots just in case.:D
I haven't worn my adidas George Best for a while but I'm glad I've kept them ;)
....For we only know that there's gonny be a show and the Glasgow Celtic will be there :D:D
Henkesghost
06-11-2012, 20:14
I'm polishing my boots just in case.:D
I haven't worn my adidas George Best for a while but I'm glad I've kept them ;)
....For we only know that there's gonny be a show and the Glasgow Celtic will be there :D:D
:)
http://m.local.stv.tv/edinburgh/news/198880-hearts-face-winding-up-order-from-hmrc-over-unpaid-tax-bill/
Heart of Midlothian FC faces a winding up order from HM Revenue and Customs over an unpaid tax bill.
It is understood that the Tynecastle club is facing the action from HMRC over unpaid PAYE and National Insurance dating back several months, which is separate from their ongoing troubles with the tax authority.
Not paying taxes, financial doping by having players they can't afford? Div3 for you, while you're at it strip anything they have won recently (shouldn't take long)
All in the name of sporting integrity of course. :D
http://m.local.stv.tv/edinburgh/news/198880-hearts-face-winding-up-order-from-hmrc-over-unpaid-tax-bill/
Not paying taxes, financial doping by having players they can't afford? Div3 for you, while you're at it strip anything they have won recently (shouldn't take long)
All in the name of sporting integrity of course. :D
you really are a bitter bitter man
I think rangers deserves your support :D
you really are a bitter bitter man
Once upon a time I might have been sympathetic. Now I just laugh when i think of how every other team lined up to kick Rangers when they were down.
Remember everything is fine in the SPL, crowds are increasing, teams are making money and the standard of football has never been higher. :dozey:
Once upon a time I might have been sympathetic. Now I just laugh when i think of how every other team lined up to kick Rangers when they were down.
Remember everything is fine in the SPL, crowds are increasing, teams are making money and the standard of football has never been higher. :dozey:
You make it sound like scottish football was all rosy, until rangers left.
You seem to forget scottish football has been dying for years, and rangers was never the reason. Merely another aspect.
LondonRoad
07-11-2012, 16:01
You make it sound like scottish football was all rosy, until rangers left.
You seem to forget scottish football has been dying for years, and rangers was never the reason. Merely another aspect.
It's great this season. Cheating is down massively :D
It's great this season. Cheating is down massively :D
Referees not against you this year?
Looks like hearts initial defiance and insistence that this was just a minor bump might not be the case after all.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20241385
Hearts are warning fans the club might not survive until the end of the month after receiving a winding-up order over a tax bill of almost £450,000.
The Edinburgh club issued a plea for "emergency backing" from supporters to avoid the prospect of administration.
"This isn't a bluff, this isn't scaremongering, this is reality," read a statement from Hearts.
"Without the support of fans there is a real risk that Hearts could possibly play its last game on 17 November."
£450,000 for not paying PAYE or NI. Now what was it the 'independant' panel said about Craig Whyte not paying Rangers PAYE and NI? That the only thing worse was match fixing and a fine of £100,000 was chucked their way.
I'm waiting with baited breath for the same thing to happen to Hearts, I think I may be waiting a long time though. More likely it'll be another transfer ban that only applies outwith the transfer window.
LondonRoad
07-11-2012, 23:22
Not sure what point you're trying to make because I've had a couple of sherbets watching Celtic improve Scotland's European status by beating Barca in Glasgow. (didn't actually read it because you're coming across as a delusional, hurting supporter of Sevco to be honest)
Anyhow... if the point you're trying to make is that Hearts are being treated unfairly because they're being liquidated for owing HMRC a six figure sum whereas the team you previously supported didn't get liquidated until they owed an eight figure sum then you're quite right..... the Rangers weren't punished early enough...
..anyhow great boost for Scottish football tonight wasn't it? :D
Champions of Scotland beating the team that are widely recognised as the best football team in world..... and from your own city too... you must feel the pride coursing through your veins like I do. :D
With a four leaf clover on my breast,
And the green and white upon my chest,
It's such a joy for us to see
and our fans didn't wreck the whole citeeee.... :D
Henkesghost
08-11-2012, 07:11
Just the best night ever, the fans, the team, the manager, doesn't get any better. Seen us beat Barca in 04, seen us beat Juve, Milan, Man Utd, Liverpool, Lyon etc but this was the ultimate. So proud. Was my daughters first group stage march in CL, she couldn't make Benfica, she was in tears when the second one went in. Thanks Celtic for helping giving a memory I will always have with my girl. Love you x
Just the best night ever, the fans, the team, the manager, doesn't get any better. Seen us beat Barca in 04, seen us beat Juve, Milan, Man Utd, Liverpool, Lyon etc but this was the ultimate. So proud. Was my daughters first group stage march in CL, she couldn't make Benfica, she was in tears when the second one went in. Thanks Celtic for helping giving a memory I will always have with my girl. Love you x
lucky white heather to have that as first match, or is that lucky green 4 leaf clover :D
denphone
08-11-2012, 07:54
Just the best night ever, the fans, the team, the manager, doesn't get any better. Seen us beat Barca in 04, seen us beat Juve, Milan, Man Utd, Liverpool, Lyon etc but this was the ultimate. So proud. Was my daughters first group stage march in CL, she couldn't make Benfica, she was in tears when the second one went in. Thanks Celtic for helping giving a memory I will always have with my girl. Love you x
Well done Henke to Celtic for giving such a wonderful performance last night and even though l am a Liverpool supporter l still like to see all the British teams do well in Europe no matter what persuasion they are.
Henkesghost
08-11-2012, 10:06
Cheers lads, good luck 2nite Den
http://imageshack.us/a/img442/7020/photobhoy.jpg
denphone
08-11-2012, 10:51
Yes a win tonight Henke would put us in a very good position.
Time to show a proper card display rather than a couple of plastic bags being held up. :D
It's just a pity the cannon didn't quite have the range to reach the East end, might have done several thousand pounds worth of improvements to celtic park.
http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/3481/peterheadpoppyday2012v2.jpg
In other news the SPL continues to boom with two SFL games had higher attendances than any of SPL games played yesterday, none of which could get over 5,000 customers through their gates.
Tick, tock SPL...
LondonRoad
11-11-2012, 09:20
Do you not see anything wrong with that obnoxious display of jingoism?
Do you not see anything wrong with allowing Chucky Green to hijack Rememberance day for his own ends?
What was the celebration for? Is it not supposed to be a dignified time of reflection?
Is it true that, when the gun went off, every Sevco player immediately rushed to the Govan shipyards to secure employment?;)
Do you not see anything wrong with that obnoxious display of jingoism?
Do you not see anything wrong with allowing Chucky Green to hijack Rememberance day for his own ends?
What was the celebration for? Is it not supposed to be a dignified time of reflection?
Nope nothing wrong with it at all. Rangers have always had a close relationship with the armed forces and show their support for Erskine and the poppy appeal every year.
Maybe you are just confused by seeing a flag of your own country at a football stadium?
LondonRoad
11-11-2012, 10:17
Nope nothing wrong with it at all. Rangers have always had a close relationship with the armed forces and show their support for Erskine and the poppy appeal every year.
Maybe you are just confused by seeing a flag of your own country at a football stadium?
You see what you want? I have my eyes open.
Has there always been such a jingoistic display on rememberance day?
paper squares that had formed a poppy being made into paper aeroplanes... very dignified:rolleyes:
Did anybody look at the shirt... it reads RFC lest we forget Tennants... very dignified.:erm:
Old soldiers will be turning in their graves
Rangers will be turning in their grave
IMHO, it's far more patriotic to pay your taxes than produce such selfish displays that have an obvious ulterior motive.
£100million would have gone a fair way to providing front line troops with essential equipment.
Anyhow, how's that HMRC enquiry into Chucky Green going?
Have those redundancies of staff in the main stand kicked in yet?
tick tock, Liquidation Day 2.... coming to a corrupt club near you soon.;)
You see what you want? I have my eyes open. .
Will your eyes and ears be open today when the groin brigade inevitably disgrace themselves with another poorly spelt banner attacking the UK armed forces and ruining the minutes silence.
You'll probably hear it just before they launch into their usual IRA-oke.
£100million would have gone a fair way to providing front line troops with essential equipment.
Hmmmm, £100 million. You've obviously been reading too many online ramblings of the obsessed. The amount of tax and NI not paid by Charles Green was about £9 million.
The amount of the still disputed EBT'S was in the region of £49 million that was made up of £35 million in unpaid tax and £14 million in penalties.
Incidentally I remember certain posters on here proclaiming loudly the tax case had been settled in HMRC's favour. Funny you'd have thought the media might have mentioned it?
LondonRoad
11-11-2012, 13:28
Incidentally I remember certain posters on here proclaiming loudly the tax case had been settled in HMRC's favour. Funny you'd have thought the media might have mentioned it?
It has been. Those who have had sight of it aren't allowed to report on it yet.
The delay in publishing is to allow the names of individuals to be anonymised. My understanding is that this is the norm when there may be potential prosecutions.
The administrators put the tab at £94million owed to HMRC. They never did pay the "small" tax case bill either. That doesn't include the money owed to other organisations such as Strathclyde Police and the Ambulance Service or the other 200+ companies they owed money to.
Did they actually hand the poppy money over last year?;)
I was just down at the rememberance service at my local cenotaph where my 2 daughters represented the Guides and Brownies. Very dignified and very solemn. Not at all like that charade that took place in ibroke yesterday.
Henkesghost
11-11-2012, 13:29
The media mention it :D:D:D you are a right card u. The media along with your own delusion will contribute to liquidation 2, be sure of it. Anyway shouldn't you be on pie and bovril talking about Annan and stuff ;). Happily your club is insignificant, shouldn't really get drawn into debate with you, sadly zombie fans are even crazier than Rangers (RIP, lest we forget) fans. Off to watch a champions league side going top of the SPL. Yeah i have to pay over £700 a season for myself and wee girl, but that's the going rate for a top club with top players;) Re your tired old attendance crap well i suppose poundland had more visitors than Versace this weekend ;)
That isn't my national flag. The Saltire is.
LondonRoad
11-11-2012, 16:41
That isn't my national flag. The Saltire is.
Which flag isn't yours
This one:
http://willievass.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/101112-Rangers-v-Peterhead/G0000wcC3c_2Ao2A/I0000tklc2LJhi8E/C0000zhD53CUQkGY
Or this one with the Hamburg sign in the centre:
http://willievass.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/101112-Rangers-v-Peterhead/G0000wcC3c_2Ao2A/I0000fPfqtJbaN9s/C0000zhD53CUQkGY
The pro neo-nazi symbolism didn't look out of place with the nazi salutes that accompanied Rule Brittania.
I'm sure those who fought the Nazis would approve of that display as part of a day of rememberance. :no::no::no:
Henkesghost
11-11-2012, 17:53
:( Dire today, fans were great though, that angry zombie guy that posts on here got it wrong again. Need to up it in the league. We had 5 or 6 out today but should still be good enough.
LondonRoad
11-11-2012, 18:31
:( Dire today, fans were great though, that angry zombie guy that posts on here got it wrong again. Need to up it in the league. We had 5 or 6 out today but should still be good enough.
Missed it today. It didn't sound great the bits I heard on the radio. I saw a good chunk of the hibs/Dundee Utd. That was actually quite a good game. This armageddon has worked out quite well for some ;)
Better half was at a charity ladies lunch so I had to look after my girls. Spent a couple of hours at Drumpellier lochs (bloody freezing) and will have a chatty, half cut, wife to deal with when she returns from her "lunch";) I'm hoping she runs out of steam before the highlights :D
What are peoples thoughts on Hearts rejecting the offer of £500,000 from Rangers? Rangers owe £800,000 to Hearts in transfer fees and are supposed to be paying £300,000 of that amount next month with the balance (500k) due next year. Charles Green, ever the opportunist, was quick to make the offer thinking he could save his own club £300,000 but Hearts rejected the offer by text on Saturday morning.
With the toiling Tynecastle club facing a liquidation threat by the end of the week unless they meet a £450,000 HMRC bill, and John McGlynn fearing that Saturday’s draw in Inverness could have been the club’s last match, it looks like Hearts are pretty confident their fans will come up with the money needed to be in a position to reject the offer from Rangers. So why did Hearts come out with such bold press statements last week? Just scare mongering their fans into shelling out?
Apparently Fedotovas didn’t even enter into any kind of negotiation with Rangers. The offer was flat rejected by text message. Surely trying to push Rangers up to £600,000 or £650,000 would have been a more acceptable deal for all parties involved? If Hearts do go into administration, will they ever forgive Romanov for turning down a guaranteed lifeline?
LondonRoad
12-11-2012, 11:35
What are peoples thoughts on Hearts rejecting the offer of £500,000 from Rangers? Rangers owe £800,000 to Hearts in transfer fees and are supposed to be paying £300,000 of that amount next month with the balance (500k) due next year. Charles Green, ever the opportunist, was quick to make the offer thinking he could save his own club £300,000 but Hearts rejected the offer by text on Saturday morning.
With the toiling Tynecastle club facing a liquidation threat by the end of the week unless they meet a £450,000 HMRC bill, and John McGlynn fearing that Saturday’s draw in Inverness could have been the club’s last match, it looks like Hearts are pretty confident their fans will come up with the money needed to be in a position to reject the offer from Rangers. So why did Hearts come out with such bold press statements last week? Just scare mongering their fans into shelling out?
Apparently Fedotovas didn’t even enter into any kind of negotiation with Rangers. The offer was flat rejected by text message. Surely trying to push Rangers up to £600,000 or £650,000 would have been a more acceptable deal for all parties involved? If Hearts do go into administration, will they ever forgive Romanov for turning down a guaranteed lifeline?
Fortunately, I don't work at that level of morality so can't fathom either of them out. As crooked as they are though, they're pretty clever so shouldn't be underestimated.
I don't know how these things work but from what has happened to Rangers, I suspect that Romanov is about to pull a flanker with Hearts. The authorities bent over backwards to sneak Rangers into the SPL so if they apply the same criteria to Hearts then administration could be a wise business move.
Hearts would be deducted points but would emerge debt free and quite probably still playing in the SPL. Only HMRC, and by extension each tax payer, would be getting stiffed.
The difference between the Hearts and what happened to Rangers is that the main creditor of Hearts is a Lithuanian bank owned by a certain Mr Romanov. Any CVA proposal couldn't be vetoed by HMRC.
I'd imagine that Romanov has already written off the money owed to him by Hearts so accepting a pennies in the pound deal could be to his advantage.
Hearts exit administration, still the same club and still in the SPL.
I don't know if it's possible to do this. if it is then accepting Rangers offer would not to be Hearts advantage even if it was one penny less than what was owed.
No deal with rangers is the best deal.
Rangers are masters are not paying money, just trying to take advantage of another club, which they seem to have done to all clubs for the last few years.
Fortunately, I don't work at that level of morality so can't fathom either of them out. As crooked as they are though, they're pretty clever so shouldn't be underestimated.
I don't know how these things work but from what has happened to Rangers, I suspect that Romanov is about to pull a flanker with Hearts. The authorities bent over backwards to sneak Rangers into the SPL so if they apply the same criteria to Hearts then administration could be a wise business move.
Hearts would be deducted points but would emerge debt free and quite probably still playing in the SPL. Only HMRC, and by extension each tax payer, would be getting stiffed.
The difference between the Hearts and what happened to Rangers is that the main creditor of Hearts is a Lithuanian bank owned by a certain Mr Romanov. Any CVA proposal couldn't be vetoed by HMRC.
I'd imagine that Romanov has already written off the money owed to him by Hearts so accepting a pennies in the pound deal could be to his advantage.
Hearts exit administration, still the same club and still in the SPL.
I don't know if it's possible to do this. if it is then accepting Rangers offer would not to be Hearts advantage even if it was one penny less than what was owed.
I've got to agree with your point of view. Hearts fans at my work suspect Romanov wants the club to go into administration. Hearts fans are also suggesting the rules have changed since last year. whilst Rangers lost 10 points last season Hearts face either a 15-point deduction or losing a third of last seasons point tally. If Hearts go into administration they face dropping to the bottom of the SPL sitting on either -1 or -4 points. A real possibility they could be relegated.
---------- Post added at 12:05 ---------- Previous post was at 11:54 ----------
No deal with rangers is the best deal.
Rangers are masters are not paying money, just trying to take advantage of another club, which they seem to have done to all clubs for the last few years.
I can understand your point of view. It's going to take a long time for Rangers to rebuild their reputation.
Hearts fans I know are just desperate for their club to be saved. Not all of them, but a fair few are very disappointed Hearts didn't accept or at least try to negotiate the offer from Rangers to secure their club.
Whilst it appears Rangers are trying to take advantage of Hearts, lets wait and see what happens if the club goes into administration. I'm expecting clubs south of the border to take advantage, snapping up Hearts players on the cheap or even free in January.
Either way, things are looking very grim at Tynecastle. There is also a suggestion that Dunfermline will be entering into administration by December over a £81,000 tax bill.
I am a hearts fan
If they go into administration, so be it.
Rangers are merely trying to take advantage of the situation, they were never one for the moral high ground
Scottish football has always been a selling league, no matter the club.
If hearts need to be punished, I'm happy it is done. Unlike the rangers, who seem to think that they should be awarded the league title, no matter how much they cheat through life.
If hearts need to be punished, I'm happy it is done. Unlike the rangers, who seem to think that they should be awarded the league title, no matter how much they cheat through life.
Rangers fans, or at least those with an element of humility and common sense, accepted months ago that their club needed to start life again from the bottom tier of Scottish football playing their way back to the SPL and paying their dues. The conduct of those running the old Rangers, and the debts they accrued disgusted me thoroughly. Everyone involved should be punished to the full extent of the law.
No, Rangers fans were bitter, that they were targeted, all delusional, and they were going down to spite rest of scottish football.
i have never heard of any rangers fans admitting their club have done wrong.
That is why most other fans dislike rangers. i say that having had conversations with other fans of scottish clubs at my work. All recognise that rangers have never admitted they should be punished, merely that they seem to think they are being punished for doing nothing wrong
LondonRoad
12-11-2012, 12:34
Rangers fans, or at least those with an element of humility and common sense
Rare as teeth on a hen;)
They are the people and anc actually believe it.... so full of themselves that they're happy to fund anybody who fuels that belief.
For those who spell out the truth and try to enlighten them there's usually physical violence or the threat of..... 36 journalists can testify to that.
Henkesghost
13-11-2012, 19:22
Glad Hearts are getting things sorted.
LondonRoad
13-11-2012, 20:23
Glad Hearts are getting things sorted.
When is this Armageddon due now?
Here's the Poundland FC presentation to potential City investors.
https://skydrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=7241D12A18C19C59!387&app=PowerPoint
It's so bad, it's hilarious.
denphone
14-11-2012, 16:53
SFL clubs propose new three-tier league system in Scotland
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20329684
The 30 Scottish Football League clubs have unanimously voted to propose a new three-tier league structure of 16, 10 and 16 teams for season 2014-15.
Its top-flight would be called the Premier Division, the second the Championship and the third would be called the First Division.
The plan involves a merger between the SFL and the Scottish Premier League.
SFL chief executive David Longmuir's plan would require agreement from the SPL and the Scottish FA.
Following a meeting at Hampden, the SFL is also proposing a new format for the Scottish League Cup based on a seeding system similar to the Champions League.
LondonRoad
16-11-2012, 18:14
BBC Scotland have some SPL matches on free to air TV - BBC Alba
I actually find the gaelic commentary quite amusing. :)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-20362974
BBC Scotland have some SPL matches on free to air TV - BBC Alba
I actually find the gaelic commentary quite amusing. :)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-20362974
i find it bemusing, as one of the vast majority of Scots who doesn't speak Gaelic
LondonRoad
17-11-2012, 08:40
i find it bemusing, as one of the vast majority of Scots who doesn't speak Gaelic
I know no gaelic either but you can still make out the players names, etc.
It still makes more sense than some of the English speaking commentaries..... and you don't have to listen to Craig Burley's ill-informed guff.:D
Henkesghost
17-11-2012, 20:13
I know no gaelic either but you can still make out the players names, etc.
It still makes more sense than some of the English speaking commentaries..... and you don't have to listen to Craig Burley's ill-informed guff.:D
I'll see your Craig Burley and raise you a Steven Craigan :mad: Good result today though :)
LondonRoad
17-11-2012, 20:27
I'll see your Craig Burley and raise you a Steven Craigan :mad: Good result today though :)
I'd have taken that before kick off.
And so onto Lisbon to face Benfica..... didn't we win something in that city before? :D:D
Henkesghost
17-11-2012, 20:57
I'd have taken that before kick off.
And so onto Lisbon to face Benfica..... didn't we win something in that city before? :D:D
Rings a bell m8 ;) Actually don't see us getting anything on Tuesday, think it's down to the Spartak game. Lassad looks good don't u think?
LondonRoad
17-11-2012, 21:46
Rings a bell m8 ;) Actually don't see us getting anything on Tuesday, think it's down to the Spartak game. Lassad looks good don't u think?
Lassad could do with some time on the field. It's just as well we've got a reasonable squad the amount of injuries we've been picking up.
I reckon we'll get a draw. There wasn't much between the two teams at Parkhead and the pressure is on Benfica to get a win. We could even sneak it on the break;)..... or we could lose an early goal and get hammered. :shocked:
One things for sure....
.... we only know that there's gonna be a show and the Glasgow Celtic will be there... :D
Henkesghost
19-11-2012, 14:41
Would bite your hand off for a draw
Former Rangers Football Club wins Big Tax Case appeal
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-20414804
I'm sure I saw some ill informed drivel on here a few weeks ago that they had lost.
that you did del, that you did, we done nothing wrong but certain folk can't accept that FACT, the only guilty thing that we have done and thats not pay paye at the start of last season because of a certain owner.
Loved this bit from the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-20414804) story....
BBC Scotland's business correspondent David Henderson said the implications of the tax ruling were that "all those footballers who were playing for Rangers, happily being paid using these EBTs, may well get a letter in the post soon, saying 'give the money back to the liquidators, for onward transfer to the creditors'."
"That could include Sir David Murray, who allegedly took about £6m through this scheme."
that you did del, that you did, we done nothing wrong but certain folk can't accept that FACT
One other fact. Only one SPL team has actually used EBT's in an manner which was meant they had to repay taxes to avoid further action being taken. It's also the team that has suspiciously close links to the attempts to strip Rangers of their titles and whose fans only seem to know the direction to their stadium every few months.
I wonder which team that is... :D
Loved this bit from the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-20414804) story....
I'd make Bert Konterman pay every penny back he got from Rangers, even if he didn't have an EBT!
LondonRoad
20-11-2012, 23:17
One other fact. Only one SPL team has actually used EBT's in an manner which was meant they had to repay taxes to avoid further action being taken. It's also the team that has suspiciously close links to the attempts to strip Rangers of their titles and whose fans only seem to know the direction to their stadium every few months.
I wonder which team that is... :D
Rangers:
Still dead
Still Tax Cheats
Still hurting
Not had the chance to read (My team were playing tonight) the full findings but not completely innocent is my reading. Some guilt in the big tax case, total guilt in the wee tax case and the missing tax that liquidated you. :D
Henkesghost
21-11-2012, 05:59
:D Spot on with all of that London Road. Huge night against Spartak to come, will be amazing night. Didn't deserve a draw last night but if Hooper had stuck his leg out we'd have nicked it. Europe after Xmas no matter what and at least 12 European games this season:) Wilson and Forster outstanding last night. Sad for Broony:(
I'd make Bert Konterman pay every penny back he got from Rangers, even if he didn't have an EBT!
Worth every penny for THAT goal against the orcs at Hampden.
Rangers: - Still the most successful club in the world
There, fixed that for you. 54 titles and counting.
:D Spot on with all of that London Road. Huge night against Spartak to come, will be amazing night.
Why? Are TGFITW going to remove their green seat costumes for the night?
Maybe this all shows that a failed social worker, a lawyer done for fraud and a journalist who claims to act in the interests of football fans yet mocks the people who died in the Ibrox disaster are not the most reliable sources of information. :dunce:
Henkesghost
21-11-2012, 07:15
Worth every penny for THAT goal against the orcs at Hampden.
There, fixed that for you. 54 titles and counting.
Why? Are TGFITW going to remove their green seat costumes for the night?
Maybe this all shows that a failed social worker, a lawyer done for fraud and a journalist who claims to act in the interests of football fans yet mocks the people who died in the Ibrox disaster are not the most reliable sources of information. :dunce:
:D Your team is deid!!! Your new one is in the 3rd divison, your owner is a con man. Your fans are as deluded as ever. You watch Kevin Kyle :D:D:D
We are champions, in Champions league, in semi of league cup, top of SPL, rake in way more cash than your new club every week, we have players that are worth millions, you have Lee McCulloch and a bunch of players no one has heard of. The gap gets wider and wider. The result of the big tax case changes none of that. M8 won't be replying to any of your posts as they are full of the sickness and bile that afllicts many of your clubs fans:td: plus your club is insignificant, away to pie and bovril and talk to fans of clubs you have more in common with. Really wish we could be in your clubs shoes, AYE RIGHT!!! :D:D:D:D
We are champions, in Champions league, in semi of league cup, top of SPL, rake in way more cash than your new club every week,
Tainted champions. More cash every week with your fair weather fans?
I take it now that Benfica beat the team that beat the second best team in Spain they are now the best team in the world?
Rangers. Loyal fans, stick with their club through good times and bad.
Celtic. Glory :rolleyes: hunters who can't be bothered turning up most weeks and cling to imagined 'crimes' by other clubs when ignoring the actual crimes of their own.
The result of the big tax case changes none of that. M8 won't be replying to any of your posts as they are full of the sickness and bile that afllicts many of your clubs fans:td: plus your club is insignificant, away to pie and bovril and talk to fans of clubs you have more in common with. Really wish we could be in your clubs shoes, AYE RIGHT!!! :D:D:D:D
Not bile, facts. Kryptonite to Celtic fans.
It changes nothing? Well apart from proving Rangers never cheated and has exposed Lawell and his cronies yep nothing has changed.
Oh dear, every post from you in this thread is making you sound even more bitter.
You are forgetting one key point and Hugh quoted it, the club may have gotten away with the tax case but they can and probably will go after those players/employees that benefited from the EBTs and ask them to repay the monies.
It doesn't prove that Rangers never cheated, it just proves that someone decided to let the old dead club away with it :)
Oh dear, every post from you in this thread is making you sound even more bitter.
You are forgetting one key point and Hugh quoted it, the club may have gotten away with the tax case but they can and probably will go after those players/employees that benefited from the EBTs and ask them to repay the monies.
They can ask. At which point they will be told the loophole that closed this scheme was closed in 2009 and HMRC have no powers to recover monies paid before this time. :)
Of course they might then look at the 'movie investment' schemes used by a certain East End club to avoid paying regular taxes to players and staff. Funny how the Rangers Tax Case blog never mentioned that during their failed witchhunt.
It doesn't prove that Rangers never cheated, it just proves that someone decided to let the old dead club away with it :)
Funny definition of not guilty.
Is that what you are left with? Claiming Rangers aren't Rangers despite the SFL, SPL, SFA and UEFA all agreeing we are? Sad and deluded. Mind you it must hurt when all the hope you clung to that a better, more successful side were going to disappear has gone and your left with a league falling apart, half empty stadiums and a lot of questions being asked.
LondonRoad
21-11-2012, 14:05
You've clearly not bothered to read the tribunal finding Deek.
FACT. Rangers were guilty of tax evasion, not as guilty as HMRC had claimed but guilty none the less. It's a bit like somebody in court getting getting a lesser sentence than expected..... to simplify things for you.... verdicts still guilty.
You should read it so see how underhand your dead club was. The view of the dissenting opinion (the only tax expert on the panel) is particularly scathing. I suspect there's enough scope there for HMRC to appeal.
I also liked this bit:
Then, Mr Thornhill submitted, the employee should be
taxed not on the emolument but on the benefit. It was irrelevant, he continued,
whether the Remuneration Trust benefit was contractual. He conceded that where it
derived from a (footballer’s) side-letter it was contractual, but not in the cases of
bonuses paid to employees of other Murray Group companies.
So Sir Minty's QC acknowledges the that players' side contracts were contractual. That'll be those side contracts that weren't submitted to the football authorities.
LET THE TITLE STRIPPING COMMENCE:cleader::cleader::woot::woot::woot::woot:
Jim Traynor gives his thoughts:
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/after-rangers-biggest-ever-win-1447935
Jim Traynor gives his thoughts:
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/after-rangers-biggest-ever-win-1447935
It seems to ignore the facts. Tax man pursued Rangers as they were blatantly using EBT wrongly and illegally.
To say otherwise is somewhat silly.
They had a set back when others disagree, though I suspect they will appeal that.
During that period, they were also withholding other tax revenues they should have been paying (NI and tax).
I worry when journalists promote tax evasion.
Folks, as a neutral observer I should point out that it takes but a couple of seconds to establish, via Google News search, that every newspaper/website that has reported on the "big tax case" this morning has called it a win for Rangers. BBC Scotland unequivocally called it a win for Rangers in all their bulletins last night.
I don't imagine that will make a blind bit of difference to the vitriol in this thread though. And you're all as bad as each other.
A plague on both your houses.
LondonRoad
21-11-2012, 20:26
It seems to ignore the facts. Tax man pursued Rangers as they were blatantly using EBT wrongly and illegally.
To say otherwise is somewhat silly.
They had a set back when others disagree, though I suspect they will appeal that.
During that period, they were also withholding other tax revenues they should have been paying (NI and tax).
I worry when journalists promote tax evasion.
Traynor has been Murray's mouthpiece for years. Nobody who had read the tribunal findings could write such an article.
He makes no mention of the side contracts which are mentioned extensively in the report. He also seems to forget that Rangers were liquidated owing nearly £60 million that had nothing to with the "big tax case".
The appeal was partially successfull on a legal technicality. The interpretation by the majority is heavily criticised by the the only tax expert on the panel. There's mileage in this yet. ;)
IMHO the decision does seem perverse having read the evidence. Perhaps the majority didn't read Peter Lawell's instructions properly or were promised exclusive use of the goat this month. ;)
I'm having fun trying to work out who all the anonymised individuals are.
How anybody could perceive this judgement to be a victory is beyond me. You would have to be morally bankrupt to consider this to be any kind of vindication.
http://www.financeandtaxtribunals.gov.uk/judgmentfiles/j6850/TC02372.pdf
LondonRoad
23-11-2012, 18:16
The Comedy Club roadshow continues.
Sevco game called off because Elgin sold too many tickets. You couldn't make it up.
http://local.stv.tv/aberdeen/news/202362-police-force-cancellation-of-egins-sfl-match-with-rangers/
:D
There's mileage in this yet. ;)
Damn right there is. The company that used to control Rangers would probably have come out of administration via a CVA as most of the other creditors were willing to accept a CVA that was blocked by HMRC over a tax bill that was never correct. :mad:
Then there is the criminal enquiries into Craig Whytes takeover and tenure at Rangers and the fallout from that.
There is also the 'independent' tribunal to come in January. Funny how the illness of a 'low level paper gatherer' can cause it to be delayed. You might almost think that Harper McLeod had a greater role in this than has been admitted so far. :erm:
I suppose in the interests of fairness and sporting integrity we should examine the tax affairs of Celtic and their under reporting of attendances in the 70's and 80's to avoid paying tax.
I propose a leading lawyer takes charge of this, say Donald Findlay? I can't see any Celtic fan having an issue with such a well known and respected legal figure delving into historic matters. :dozey:
---------- Post added at 18:30 ---------- Previous post was at 18:28 ----------
The Comedy Club roadshow continues.
Sevco game called off because Elgin sold too many tickets. You couldn't make it up.
http://local.stv.tv/aberdeen/news/202362-police-force-cancellation-of-egins-sfl-match-with-rangers/
Rangers are so well supported they cause games to be abandoned due to overselling. Don't suppose that would be an issue with Pacific Shelf FC.
LondonRoad
23-11-2012, 22:08
Are you really that delusional Derek or do you only get your information from the mainstream media?
Not read the report I see;)
---------- Post added at 22:08 ---------- Previous post was at 21:02 ----------
Rangers are so well supported they cause games to be abandoned due to overselling. Don't suppose that would be an issue with Pacific Shelf FC.
If you look back in the thread you'll find the ultimate proof that the Pacific Shelf thing is a delusion that only hurting Sevco supporters haven't dismissed.
I'm weary of giving you facts that are readily available and then you ignore them because they don't fit in with your hurting delusional agenda.
On the delusional fantastic support Rangers have, check out the year on year figures for the highest attendances in Scotland.
If that doesn't burst your delusional bubble, check out the Ibrokes attendances for the 2 crunch European games in the final season of Rangers (RIP). If this support were as fantastic as you claim they might have provided the sort of atmosphere that would have lifted the players and sent Rangers on a money spinning run..... that might have allowed taxes to be paid.
What was the Rangers fans response when Minty (forced by the banks) had to start cutting back? They protested, marched on Ibrokes (you like your walks don't you :)) under the "We deserve better" banner. :rolleyes:
Henkesghost
24-11-2012, 13:27
Nae Green Brigade today :( better look out ma song sheet
Are you really that delusional Derek or do you only get your information from the mainstream media?
Not read the report I see;)
Actually I've read pretty much most of it. Unlike the Rangers Tax Case blogger who, inbetween deleting most of the posts now he's realised a knock on the door early one Friday is likely, skipped to the end and proclaimed loudly that Rangers had been found guilty on all charges only to realise that once again he had made himself look foolish.
Nae Green Brigade today :( better look out ma song sheet
Not that many other fans either :D On the brightside my fellow officers will have had a much quieter shift than usual without them being in the naughty corner.
Amazing how every other team in Scotland can bring up their attendance figures you when celtic are playing in front of the green seats the attendance gets sneaked out a few days later once another 10k or so are added to it.
On the bright side only 20,000 or so of 'The greatest fans in the world' :rolleyes: saw their team get pumped by Inverness Caley today.
Just a pity Rangers aren't playing this weekend as they are so popular games get sold out way beyond capacity. :)
Henkesghost
24-11-2012, 19:03
20,000 aye right ya numpty. You say your an officer? Police? With the thinly veiled bigotry you display on here I find that disturbing but sadly not surprising. You are a joke.
20,000 aye right ya numpty. You say your an officer? Police?
10 points for Mr ghost. Whilst I obviously wasn't at the game I was listening in to various commentary streams this afternoon. The phrases 'half-full' was mentioned more than once and in the STV match report you can find this little gem.
The absence of the Green Brigade - the vociferous and occasionally controversial section of the Hoops support who were boycotting the match after claiming they had been subject to "oppressive police tactics" in recent months - deadened the atmosphere further in a half-filled stadium.
I see now the official attendance is over 44,000. At least losing to ICT hasn't affected their sense of humour. :D
With the thinly veiled bigotry you display on here I find that disturbing but sadly not surprising. You are a joke.
I do find humour quite easy, especially when it comes to mocking celtic but I always like an easy target.
And a bigot? Yeah right. :rolleyes:
Henkesghost
24-11-2012, 20:05
[QUOTE=Derek;35501701]10 points for Mr ghost. Whilst I obviously wasn't at the game I was listening in to various commentary streams this afternoon. The phrases 'half-full' was mentioned more than once and in the STV match report you can find this little gem.
I see now the official attendance is over 44,000. At least losing to ICT hasn't affected their sense of humour. :D
I do find humour quite easy, especially when it comes to mocking celtic but I always like an easy target.
Hilarious. An easy target? Celtic ha ha you are truly insane. Let's look at this Celtic, champions, top of the league, in Champions league, guaranteed Europe after Christmas, in one Cup Semi final, multi million pound rated players. Who is it you support, well after your club died which was hilarious you support a team in the lowest division in Scotland, hilarious. they lost to the worst side in Scotland, hilarious, out of two cup competitions one to a wee diddy team that I can't even remember, hilarious, banned from Europe for 3 years not that you'd get close to it anyway, hilarious, banned from signing players, hilarious. Watching Kevin Kyle, hilarious, more disciplinary cases hanging over you, hilarious, an owner that is ripping it out of you. Now there's an easy joke for you
Let's look at this Celtic, *tainted* champions,
*snip*
Now there's an easy joke for you
There you go. I fixed that for you. :D
I see you are taking the result well. Almost as well as your manager who showed his class again having a shouting match (http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/celtic/202483-neil-lennon-left-angry-after-confrontation-with-celtic-fans/)with a fan good enough to actually turn up.
http://nfs.stvfiles.com/imagebase/170/623x349/170195-celtic-manager-neil-lennon-left-has-a-word-with-a-celtic-fan.jpg
Henkesghost
24-11-2012, 20:30
Aye good comeback, and that's the hilarious part that is the best you got. Look let's talk in 3 or 4 years time if your team lives that long and is somewhere on our radar. G'd night
LondonRoad
24-11-2012, 21:34
And a bigot? Yeah right. :rolleyes:
It depends how you define bigot. I'd define a bigot is a person who is intolerantly devoted to his own opinions and prejudices and regards or treats a group with hatred and/or intolerance. Coupled with this bigots refuse to take on board any fact that doesn't fit in with their own narrow minded agenda
If you reread some of your postings in this thread you'll see you tick most of the boxes for being considered bigotted.
You actually come across as being anti-Celtic than pro-Rangers. Your IQ seems to drop considerably with your pathetic attempts at slagging all things Celtic. Do they not ask basic arithmetic questions to be a beat bobby?
Example Question
A football Stadium with a capacity of 60,000 is described as being half empty. How many people are attending the match.
20,000 Deek? You're showing yourself up again. :D
My 7 year old got closer than one of Strathclyde's finest:erm:
Right, I've had enough. The banter in here has been right on the edge for weeks now but frankly it is turning extremely nasty and I think ALL of you need to reacquaint yourselves with the forum rules.
There are forums out there where they tolerate this nonsense but this is not one of them. If you can't carry on a civil conversation about Scottish football then I will be closing this thread and hefting the frack hammer.
The race for the first division title is warming up nicely. Both Partick thistle and Dunfermline level on points with just over a third of the season played. Partick play Dunermline next Saturday in the Scottish Cup, should be a good tie.
2 weeks ago it was reported in The Courier that Dunfermline owed £81,000 to HMRC. In October some players and staff didn't get paid on time. Does anyone know anymore about this?
LondonRoad
25-11-2012, 10:42
The race for the first division title is warming up nicely. Both Partick thistle and Dunfermline level on points with just over a third of the season played. Partick play Dunermline next Saturday in the Scottish Cup, should be a good tie.
2 weeks ago it was reported in The Courier that Dunfermline owed £81,000 to HMRC. In October some players and staff didn't get paid on time. Does anyone know anymore about this?
It looks like the threat of administration has been removed in the short term but obviously there are still problems.
http://www.thecourier.co.uk/Sport/Football/article/26009/pars-hope-to-have-reached-short-term-deal-with-hmrc.html
I saw the jags earlier in the season and they're playing some nice football. Ironically the day I saw them they got beat but it was one of those games that turned on a sending off.
It should be an interesting game next week.
The race for the first division title is warming up nicely. Both Partick thistle and Dunfermline level on points with just over a third of the season played. Partick play Dunermline next Saturday in the Scottish Cup, should be a good tie.
2 weeks ago it was reported in The Courier that Dunfermline owed £81,000 to HMRC. In October some players and staff didn't get paid on time. Does anyone know anymore about this?
You are correct.
I suspect discussions are still ongoing. Often it is a balance between HMRC wanting money now, and sensitivity of pushing a club under. I think dunfermline will be walking a tight rope for awhile, as if they don't solve the cash imbalance, HMRC will eventually say enough is enough and put them into receivership.
Just another sad story of a club living beyond its means. My own view, you pay your bills, or you take consequences. Same as my own life.
I saw the jags earlier in the season and they're playing some nice football. Ironically the day I saw them they got beat but it was one of those games that turned on a sending off.
It should be an interesting game next week.
Jackie McNamara and Simon Donnelly are doing a great job. 9 years out of the SPL, would be good to see them back.
Henkesghost
25-11-2012, 12:27
Would be good to see Thistle back in the SPL. Remember Sid getting into the Celtic side and being hailed as the new Dalglish :D God I'm getting old :(
Henkesghost
29-11-2012, 09:40
Much much better last night. That's what we are capable of. Now rest most against Arbroath and on to the big one on Wednesday:hyper:
Big Forster:nworthy:
LondonRoad
04-12-2012, 14:26
HMRC to appeal the Big Tax Case.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-20597808
HMRC to appeal the Big Tax Case.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-20597808
It is telling, that one of the people who benefitted from the "loans", when asked, will you pay the loan back..said "that is between me and the club".
This is blantantly used to circumvent legimate taxes. Whilst cheating is the norm for some, I find it distasteful. i pay taxes, why should others cheat.
And they have cheek to complain about benefit cheats...I find this cheating worse.
LondonRoad
05-12-2012, 08:05
The Rangers are aiming for more world records:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20595802
Lowest number of fans travelling to an away fixture ;)
There's the possibility of most charges of bringing the game into disrepute too. :D
Henkesghost
05-12-2012, 17:43
Heading 2 paradise soon wi babyghost x Hope Rod's greetin wi joy again :D
I hope Celtic get the result they want, even if it is just Benfica losing :)
Henkesghost
06-12-2012, 05:51
Amazing night, still wasted, great atmosphere. Isn't Armageddon wonderful :D
denphone
06-12-2012, 06:04
Amazing night, still wasted, great atmosphere. Isn't Armageddon wonderful :D
Well done to Celtic Henke and good luck for the knockout stages.
Henkesghost
06-12-2012, 07:25
Well done to Celtic Henke and good luck for the knockout stages.
Aw cheers Den, in work but still smiling. Good luck to the scousers too :)
denphone
06-12-2012, 07:57
Aw cheers Den, in work but still smiling. Good luck to the scousers too :)
Yes nice win tonight will suffice.:)
Henkesghost
06-12-2012, 08:40
Yes nice win tonight will suffice.:)
Think it's ok to have Liverpool chat on the Scottish football forum, yer just Glaswegians wi yer brains kicked in :D
denphone
06-12-2012, 08:58
Think it's ok to have Liverpool chat on the Scottish football forum, yer just Glaswegians wi yer brains kicked in :D
Remember the Liverpool of the past always had a big yin influence.:D
Remember the Liverpool of the past always had a big yin influence.:D
They still do. My Mum's side of the family come from Huyton. My brother is a massive Liverpool fan. He drives 500 miles once a month, from here to Anfield and back to catch games. I've been a few times, great atmosphere. Still today there are fans in the stands with King Kenny flags and Souness on their tops. Wonder city, wonder people, wonderful club.
denphone
08-12-2012, 14:19
Aw cheers Den, in work but still smiling. Good luck to the scousers too :)
Another good win by the Hoops today Henke.
Traynor has been Murray's mouthpiece for years.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20652118
Blue nose through and through :D
LondonRoad
08-12-2012, 16:13
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20652118
Blue nose through and through :D
Food bill will go through the roof.
I wonder why this new club The Rangers have to pay Jabba Traynor when he provided the PR for the dead club for free.:confused:
Something to do with the flotation perhaps?
The prospectus is a fantastic work of fiction but rather lengthy.
https://www.rangersshareoffer.com/Prospectus.pdf
Perhaps Traynor is required to get the message across in simpler language.. "Hand over your £500 and you'll own the holding company who own the club" Don't be asking questions about who owns the ground or the training facilities. Don't be asking questions of how much Chucky Green is making out of screwing you all. That's not important just gies yir money.
Henkesghost
08-12-2012, 17:06
Another good win by the Hoops today Henke.
Sammy's goal was a peach.
denphone
08-12-2012, 17:12
Sammy's goal was a peach.
Indeed it was Henke.:)
LondonRoad
08-12-2012, 17:17
Sammy's goal was a peach.
Broony and Wanyama looked total class too.
Happy Days ;)
Who do you fancy in the CL draw and who'd you like to avoid?
Personally I'd rather avoid Man Utd. Mainly because we've already played them a couple of times. There's no easy fixtures but I wouldn't mind PSG or Schalke.
I don't think anybody will look forward to visiting Paradise.:D
Henkesghost
08-12-2012, 19:15
Broony and Wanyama looked total class too.
Happy Days ;)
Who do you fancy in the CL draw and who'd you like to avoid?
Personally I'd rather avoid Man Utd. Mainly because we've already played them a couple of times. There's no easy fixtures but I wouldn't mind PSG or Schalke.
I don't think anybody will look forward to visiting Paradise.:D
To have a chance Schalke or Malaga (form's been going downhill) As a spectacle Dortmund. Have seen us play Man Utd, Juve, Bayern, PSG and Dortmund before, so maybe someone new. It's all good not bothered really. Heads down and concentrate on the league for a few months and try and pull clear.
Henkesghost
20-12-2012, 18:31
Juve?? Great game but will be a struggle. Is this thread dead?:(
denphone
20-12-2012, 18:49
Juve?? Great game but will be a struggle. Is this thread dead?:(
Not by me Henke as l hope Celtic do well in Europe.
Henkesghost
20-12-2012, 18:59
Not by me Henke as l hope Celtic do well in Europe.
Aw cheers Den :) Daughter demanding we get the tickets before Saturdays game :) Really looking forward to it. Celtic Park like Anfield is amazing on a big European night. Unbeatable atmosphere.
LondonRoad
20-12-2012, 19:01
Celtic might become a British club again once Man U and Arsenal get knocked out. ;)
Tough draw but happy to be in it.
Celtic might become a British club again once Man U and Arsenal get knocked out. ;)
Tough draw but happy to be in it.
I thought it was a good draw for celtic. Could have been worse
Henkesghost
20-12-2012, 20:29
I thought it was a good draw for celtic. Could have been worse
Not complaining Colin. Never going to get an "easy" side at this stage. Been a great tournament for us this season
Not complaining Colin. Never going to get an "easy" side at this stage. Been a great tournament for us this season
and may continue to be good :)
A Hearts fan decides ending it all is preferable to watching the Edinburgh derby. Ouchy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maxCFZgcgfM
(I'm led to believe he wasn't injured as a result of this!)
LondonRoad
05-01-2013, 11:37
(I'm led to believe he wasn't injured as a result of this!)
Landing on his head would have prevented any serious injury ;)
Scottish football continues its long slow slide to oblivion.
The new master plan is to copy a league setup that came close to killing the game in Austria and Switzerland a few years back with splits all over the place, points and goals being reset and a general feeling of making things up as they go along.
http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/aberdeen/208928-scottish-clubs-to-vote-on-league-reconstruction-proposals-within-weeks/
The plan is to implement a top flight "Premiership" of 12 clubs, a 12-club "Championship" beneath and a third tier "National League" of 18 clubs.
After two rounds of games, the top two tiers would split into three sub-leagues of eight teams. The top eight would contest the league title and European places with the middle eight settling promotion and relegation.
That middle league of eight, made up of SPL1's bottom four teams and SPL2's top four, would see their points reset. They would then play 14 matches, facing each other both home and away, with the four highest placed sides at the end of the campaign playing in the subsequent season's top division.
Happily for certain sections of Scottish football it means Rangers would have gone through this season in the lowest league to still be in the lowest league next year. :mad:
I suppose just having a setup where teams play each other home and away a set number of times each year with the lowest two teams dropping a division to be replaced by the top two in the division below (even if 2nd and 2nd bottom have a playoff) would be too radical for the halfwits running the game up here.
not a follower of Scottish football but it does seem overly complicated and connived to ensure maximum old firm derby's - until this season of course.
It's not a coincidence that Norwich City's years of financial mismanagement & on-pitch mediocrity ended when Neil Doomcaster left to take up the SPL Chief exec job.
LondonRoad
09-01-2013, 12:09
Change is certainly required but there is again an inherent unfairness in this proposed system. Splits will always throw up anomolies and they're always predictable so why have them.
There have been enough anomolies in the current system but this proposal makes those pale into insignificance.
A team that finishes 9th in the top league may be 12 points clear of the team in 10th but both teams start the middle 8 league with the same number of points. Farcical.
No splits, play each other same number of times home and away. Play offs for relegation/promotion. Simples..... or does that not suit Sky?
No splits, play each other same number of times home and away. Play offs for relegation/promotion. Simples..... or does that not suit Sky?
You've just said something football related I agree with! Urghh! :shocked:
*Goes off to shower with carbolic soap and steel wool*
You have to wonder what they have against the simpler and fairer setup thats used by most other leagues worldwide?
LondonRoad
09-01-2013, 12:34
You've just said something football related I agree with! Urghh! :shocked:
*Goes off to shower with carbolic soap and steel wool*
You have to wonder what they have against the simpler and fairer setup thats used by most other leagues worldwide?
It won't happen again.;)
I tried to red rep myself :D
denphone
15-01-2013, 08:36
Gordon Strachan to be named Scotland coach
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21023913
Gordon Strachan to be named Scotland coach
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21023913
I am hopeful that he will do the best with what we have :)
denphone
15-01-2013, 16:31
I am hopeful that he will do the best with what we have :)
Indeed he can only do his best with the tools he has at his disposal.
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