Communal drain - liability

[Flubflow]

Right, my friend needs some advice here.
His neighbour, several doors down, has called out a plumber/drain specialist (or whatever they call them) because they have a really bad smell in the house. The drains under their property are not blocked but these guys reckon there might be a blockage a few doors down. Nobody else is complaining of bad smells etc. This neighbour is now asking for an equal contribution from suspected neighbours down the line for the hourly rate (not the intitial call out fee) for this to be looked into further and rectified. This, my friends neighbours claims, is the way it is done according to the drain man. Yeah like they would say that wouldn't they and then take like 12 hours to fix it at £70 per hour!).
Now then, according to the Water Board, my friend or any of the other neighbouring residents are under no legal obligation whatsoever to pay a single penny to this person (especially considering that they don't even know how many houses might be involved).
Just what is the score here? Has anyone here had a similar experience?

[Roy MM]

Get on to your local council, it comes under enviromental health issues, if it's the shared sewer, no one household in the chain can be held resposible.

[Ramrod]

Thats right, the council should rectify the problem...

[MovedGoalPosts]

Hmm, the title deeds need to be checked. Is this a shared drain system on a private estate or development, or it is a local authority adopted drain. If the former then there may be a contribution to pay towards maintenance, but there should be a mechanism for this to be demanded and paid into some collective fund. If the latter it's the local sewer authority's problem.

[SMHarman]

My experience here...

My house is the final 200 ft of drainage for 4 houses 3+mine, originally the other half of my semi and then when a developer built two houses next to ours a previous owner permitted them to attach into our drainage, so a 4in clay pipe serving 4 houses - great.

Any blockages in that pipe are the shared responsiblity of all four houses. Once it meets the Thames water sewerage pipe it is their problem.

The only problem we had was when my builders managed to get building rubble in it, so it was only fair I paid to clear it, but a general blockage in that pipe would be shared 1/4ly.

[Raistlin]

AFAIK SMHarman is right here.

If the blockage is at the point where the drain attaches to the main sewer then it is the council's responsibility. If it is within the drain then all houses sharing the drain have an equal responsibility for the maintanence.

[greencreeper]

Land law is a bit of a mess - best to see a solicitor.

[Angua]

A reputable drain contracting firm will organise insurance claims if the problem is a shared responsibility and not on the Water boards part of the main. We have an estate where the drain is not Thames Water but privately the responsibility of those properties which run into it. They have collectively agreed to get the problem solved (raw sewage appearing in downstairs showers of a couple of properties). Some 50 odd houses are involved plus the local council offices. Loads of work involved with cameras etc to pinpoint the problem.

Definitely contact the Envoronmental Services dept as they will be able to advise as to who and what etc.

[Chris]

The council's environmental services department should also be able to help mediate if there is any difficulty in getting other homeowners to accept their responsibilities. It's definitely worth giving them a call.

I believe is is also the case that, because shared responsibility for the drains is part of the title of their house, you can sue your neighbours to recover costs if you have to arrange repairs that they won't contribute to voluntarily. But I'd get proper legal advice before considering that!

[Flubflow]

Hmm, the title deeds need to be checked. Is this a shared drain system on a private estate or development, or it is a local authority adopted drain. If the former then there may be a contribution to pay towards maintenance, but there should be a mechanism for this to be demanded and paid into some collective fund. If the latter it's the local sewer authority's problem.


They are all private houses. Just a bog standard semi-detached town housing estate, built about 35 years ago, and the road they live on has many more houses on it too.
He said that there is a manhole cover on the front drives but only on every alternate house (i.e. one manhole cover per pair of semis). It looks to me like a pair of semis share one junction and that possibly goes to the main road sewer perhaps (?). I just can't see why 6 houses or more would be sharing a drain before it goes to a sewer but we just don't really know how it all works since only the resident complainant has been doing the running around with no direct input from the company they called out.

Thanks to everyone for their input so far.
I'll tell him check title deeds, insurance and the council environmental services dept. Also I'll ask why it has been left to the complainant to approach other residents (confusing them in the process) and not the drain repair company's representitive to explain it to everyone.

One cause for concern is that, if after receiving advice that a contribution may have to be made, then what happens if one or more of the residents decides not to pay? i.e. whether the complainant will then demand a bigger share from those that are willing to pay?
Also just how exactly can they determine how many people should contribute (and hance the share) when, after the initial assement, they don't even know how far away the blockage actually is yet. Also, please do note that nobody else appears to be complaining of blocked drains or bad smells etc. so you'd think that if there was a blockage or a broken drain a few houses down then more people would notice. Another strange point is that the complainant is apparently muttering something about it having to be sorted within 48 hours. Ho Hum.
__________________

Interesting info:-
Diagram of typical layouts and responibilites:-
http://www.stockton.gov.uk/resources/ehresources/drain_lay_resp/drain_lay_resp
Resonsibility and the law:-
http://www.stockton.gov.uk/citizenservices/environment/33215/33243/

[Salu]

These guys might know. Very interesting board.....

http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/

[Pierre]

What you are talking about here is an easement.

Details of which should be on the deeds to the properties.

for more info here:::

http://www.boundary-problems.co.uk/maineasements.htm

[Chimaera]

If this is any help......
The same thing happened to me in the last house I lived in. It was a 1930's semi and there were 4 houses that fed into the same sewer. Our next door but one neighbour knocked and said he was having problems with the manhole in his garden, sewage was seeping form under it and down his garden. He told the 4 houses concerned that he was notifying the council and water board, but that the water board had told him that the sewer would have to be dug up and that all 4 houses would have to pay an equal share. The work was done and the water company billed us for the work - apparently part of the pipework went up a slight incline which contributed to the problem!
In that case, if any of the householders hadn't paid for the work, the water board would have taken action to recover the money.
When the pipework was unblocked prior to the work being done, it was found to be blocked with disposable nappies - the neighbour who was having the problem had caused it himself, his wife had been looking after their new grandchild for a few days and apparently didn't realise that you couldn't flush 'disposable' nappies away down the toilet! :doh:

[Salu]

If this is any help......
The same thing happened to me in the last house I lived in. It was a 1930's semi and there were 4 houses that fed into the same sewer. Our next door but one neighbour knocked and said he was having problems with the manhole in his garden, sewage was seeping form under it and down his garden. He told the 4 houses concerned that he was notifying the council and water board, but that the water board had told him that the sewer would have to be dug up and that all 4 houses would have to pay an equal share. The work was done and the water company billed us for the work - apparently part of the pipework went up a slight incline which contributed to the problem!
In that case, if any of the householders hadn't paid for the work, the water board would have taken action to recover the money.
When the pipework was unblocked prior to the work being done, it was found to be blocked with disposable nappies - the neighbour who was having the problem had caused it himself, his wife had been looking after their new grandchild for a few days and apparently didn't realise that you couldn't flush 'disposable' nappies away down the toilet! :doh:

....and presumably offered to refund everybody's costs?.............not!

[Chimaera]

....and presumably offered to refund everybody's costs?.............not!
Nope - because as the pipework was built on a slight incline it would have got blocked eventually! Perhaps we should have tried that argument though. :)

[Flubflow]

If this is any help......
The same thing happened to me in the last house I lived in. It was a 1930's semi and there were 4 houses that fed into the same sewer. Our next door but one neighbour knocked and said he was having problems with the manhole in his garden, sewage was seeping form under it and down his garden. He told the 4 houses concerned that he was notifying the council and water board, but that the water board had told him that the sewer would have to be dug up and that all 4 houses would have to pay an equal share. The work was done and the water company billed us for the work - apparently part of the pipework went up a slight incline which contributed to the problem!
In that case, if any of the householders hadn't paid for the work, the water board would have taken action to recover the money.
When the pipework was unblocked prior to the work being done, it was found to be blocked with disposable nappies - the neighbour who was having the problem had caused it himself, his wife had been looking after their new grandchild for a few days and apparently didn't realise that you couldn't flush 'disposable' nappies away down the toilet! :doh:

It is also worth noting that in the links I posted above, the responsibilites may be different for houses built before 1937 (i.e. the council/waterboard have more responsibility and the home owners less). See the diagram.