View Full Version : Football The death of Scottish football?
Andrewcrawford23
14-02-2012, 14:58
With Glasgow Rangers FC about to go into administration within the next hour, the question people in scottish football should be asking is can scottish football survive without them.
My personal opinion is scottish football will struggle, even Glasgow Celtic will struggle depite wha tthere chairman says.
If rangers go bust which is very likely now it is pretty much garanteed the tv rights will have to be redone since the rights are depentent on rangers and celtic matches i dnt mean the old firm one thata serperate issue, so scottish football will be either without tv money or very little of what they get jsut now. most scottish teams depend on teh tv money so without it any that are in finical diffuculies are most liekly goign to go bust to liek hearts.
Now this begs a bigger question if this starts to happen quickly will there be a football teams to play in sotland season 2012/2013?
I think scottish footbal is now on the verge of it biggest shake up since it creation, the sply,sfl and sfa will have to completely redo scottish football leagues and enforce rules to make sure nothing liek this happens again
Thoughts?
---------- Post added at 14:58 ---------- Previous post was at 14:56 ----------
Edit make that glasgow rangers are in administration as of 10 minutes ago
Yip right here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-17026172
Scottish Football is already struggling badly. I think the end result of this will be the Old Firm being even weaker than it is at the moment.
chris9991
14-02-2012, 16:31
Just the shame the taxman will lose all that money; someone else will have to pay I guess
Have you watched SPl games? It is dire at best, even celtic vs rangers is pretty bad
So don't see it as doom and gloom..as it couldn't get much worse
Have you watched SPl games? It is dire at best, even celtic vs rangers is pretty bad
So don't see it as doom and gloom..as it couldn't get much worse
You get to see some MMA though.:D
For something to die, it must first be alive. ;)
There was a time where Rangers and Celtic were saying they wanted to join the English leagues, so if that was ok then..why is it suddenly a death sentence to Scottish Football now?
Beware what you wish for...I only want a £1m from the lottery :D
Have you watched SPl games? It is dire at best, even celtic vs rangers is pretty bad
So don't see it as doom and gloom..as it couldn't get much worse
I didn't fully appreciate the direness of the SPL until I attended a conference at Easter Road and made a point of wandering round the place until I found a window where I could look out onto the pitch.
The overall effect was comparable with Prenton Park (Tranmere Rovers, English League 1) where I used to go on Friday nights (we all really wanted to go to Anfield but it was too expensive and the wrong side of the river :D ).
I didn't fully appreciate the direness of the SPL until I attended a conference at Easter Road and made a point of wandering round the place until I found a window where I could look out onto the pitch.
The overall effect was comparable with Prenton Park (Tranmere Rovers, English League 1) where I used to go on Friday nights (we all really wanted to go to Anfield but it was too expensive and the wrong side of the river :D ).
Though to be fair..easter Road has always been a dire place :D
From what I've been told the SPL is barely Champions league.
Andrewcrawford23
14-02-2012, 18:17
the spl as it is , is a crap league i wont deny that but i mean teh wider picture if rangers go completely under can scottish teams survive and not go bust to because of the tv money going and the money comign from away teams getting rangers fan money
maybe they need to only pay what they can afford...perhaps it becomes part-time..or youth league
To be honest, not sure I would notice any drop in quality
---------- Post added at 18:30 ---------- Previous post was at 18:30 ----------
Or, Man City's owners could buy Scotland :D
I don't think that Rangers will be last major team to be threatened with bankruptcy.. Even the English Premiere League is showing heavy losses.. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/may/19/premier-league-finances-black-hole
Wages to players has become unsustainable...not sure what the %pay increases are, but they must be giving the bankers a good run
So for a few clubs to go to the wall means wages become a bit more realistic, I don't see that as a bad thing
Andrewcrawford23
14-02-2012, 19:45
i agree totally i think rangers could be teh start of some big clubs going tothe wall and wages starting to become more in line wha thtey should be
Arthurgray50@blu
14-02-2012, 20:39
To be totally honest l think that Scottish football has been dead for years, and for simple reasons, If you take out Rangers and Celtic, you would not have Scottish football.
Tv money for example, we had Setanta, Sky and ESPN, they would only covers games that involved in the Old firm games, no dis -respect to Scottish football but who would pay subs to watch Arbroath play St Mirren for example - no one.
Clubs are taken over by rich owners, and then dumped. What has happened at Rangers FC could happen to any club in the UK, wages are far too high, and if people say it won't happen to Celtic, it can - no one is out of the question.
What has to happen is that we in the Premier League have to say is merge- there has to be a wage curb on wages, none of this silly money, such as £100.000 per week.
The Premier League MUST merge to save these clubs going bust. I would say the SPL has to be say The Championship and lower clubs then form a new Ist and 2nd Division and a third.
Ie PL is extended by 6 clubs, then a PL2, (The Championship) Ist Div (The Championship ) 2nd and a Third.
You cannot expect Rangers or Celtic joining the PL straight up as that would prove argument.
Most clubs fly to away games, and fans either drive or go by train anyway.
In fact if l am not wrong, one football fan travels from London each week and flies to Inverness to watch home games.
TV money will then flood in, and we could have the same games played each week, ie Sat, Sunday, Monday and Wednesday and Fridays, so nothing would change - this to me the only way forward for BRITISH football.
Andrewcrawford23
14-02-2012, 20:46
To be totally honest l think that Scottish football has been dead for years, and for simple reasons, If you take out Rangers and Celtic, you would not have Scottish football.
Tv money for example, we had Setanta, Sky and ESPN, they would only covers games that involved in the Old firm games, no dis -respect to Scottish football but who would pay subs to watch Arbroath play St Mirren for example - no one.
Clubs are taken over by rich owners, and then dumped. What has happened at Rangers FC could happen to any club in the UK, wages are far too high, and if people say it won't happen to Celtic, it can - no one is out of the question.
What has to happen is that we in the Premier League have to say is merge- there has to be a wage curb on wages, none of this silly money, such as £100.000 per week.
The Premier League MUST merge to save these clubs going bust. I would say the SPL has to be say The Championship and lower clubs then form a new Ist and 2nd Division and a third.
Ie PL is extended by 6 clubs, then a PL2, (The Championship) Ist Div (The Championship ) 2nd and a Third.
You cannot expect Rangers or Celtic joining the PL straight up as that would prove argument.
Most clubs fly to away games, and fans either drive or go by train anyway.
In fact if l am not wrong, one football fan travels from London each week and flies to Inverness to watch home games.
TV money will then flood in, and we could have the same games played each week, ie Sat, Sunday, Monday and Wednesday and Fridays, so nothing would change - this to me the only way forward for BRITISH football.
i see you will be against scotland getting indepeance then arthur ;)
apart from mergin the sfl and efl together i agree with you on the rest and that the point i am makign if rangers go bust scottish football is dead because scottish football needs rangers adn celtic
but for football in generaly to survive a cap and accoutn management is needed, ony good thing for scotland is rangers might be forced to playing there youths meaning they get better and sold on to english teams and theng et better even more
denphone
14-02-2012, 20:51
To be totally honest l think that Scottish football has been dead for years, and for simple reasons, If you take out Rangers and Celtic, you would not have Scottish football.
Tv money for example, we had Setanta, Sky and ESPN, they would only covers games that involved in the Old firm games, no dis -respect to Scottish football but who would pay subs to watch Arbroath play St Mirren for example - no one.
Clubs are taken over by rich owners, and then dumped. What has happened at Rangers FC could happen to any club in the UK, wages are far too high, and if people say it won't happen to Celtic, it can - no one is out of the question.
What has to happen is that we in the Premier League have to say is merge- there has to be a wage curb on wages, none of this silly money, such as £100.000 per week.
The Premier League MUST merge to save these clubs going bust. I would say the SPL has to be say The Championship and lower clubs then form a new Ist and 2nd Division and a third.
Ie PL is extended by 6 clubs, then a PL2, (The Championship) Ist Div (The Championship ) 2nd and a Third.
You cannot expect Rangers or Celtic joining the PL straight up as that would prove argument.
Most clubs fly to away games, and fans either drive or go by train anyway.
In fact if l am not wrong, one football fan travels from London each week and flies to Inverness to watch home games.
TV money will then flood in, and we could have the same games played each week, ie Sat, Sunday, Monday and Wednesday and Fridays, so nothing would change - this to me the only way forward for BRITISH football.
l somehow cannot see 6 more teams on the premiership as that means 12 more matches each season when we already have a fixture overload Arthur.
The Scottish game has been declining for a while now, trapped in a catch 22 situation where the money isn't coming because the quality is declining as a result of the lack of money. The best highlight of this is the Old Firm derby, used to be a big game for people in England but now it barely gets a mention and isn't even that heavily promoted by Sky. The only time it warrants more than a passing mention of the score is if there has been some violence. This isn't helped by the moronic situation where they play each other 4 times in a season.
The decline in interest which started that spiral was probably a combination of the dominance of the Old Firm and the lack of large fan bases to support decent sized clubs around Scotland. It's a small league and simply doesn't get the attendances required. Meanwhile the other leagues around Europe have grown exponentially, increasing the disparty between them and Scotland. This was likely as a result of the aforementioned quality of league meaning it missed out on the influx of Sky money.
So then Celtic and Rangers no longer compete for the top players, quite soon after that they couldn't even compete for the decent Premiership quality players. It wasn't that long ago that the Old Firm would be a test for the top English sides, now the Championship sides would face them with confidence. It's been a remarkable and rapid decline.
---------- Post added at 21:00 ---------- Previous post was at 20:54 ----------
Clubs are taken over by rich owners, and then dumped. What has happened at Rangers FC could happen to any club in the UK, wages are far too high, and if people say it won't happen to Celtic, it can - no one is out of the question.
Rangers also overextended themselves with lavish wages and transfer fees which helped them to some titles. Fans are partly culpable for this for prioritising success over the long term health of the club. Too many fans are concerned only with glory rather than finances and need to be more vocal and attentive to how their club is run.
Ie PL is extended by 6 clubs, then a PL2, (The Championship) Ist Div (The Championship ) 2nd and a Third.
The Premier League has enough games. We can't make the league bigger unless we add another tier.
There are quite a few problems with taking Celtic and Rangers anyway, UEFA won't like it and the English teams have no need for them. Celtic and Rangers might want it but that doesn't mean the English clubs will allow it.
Andrewcrawford23
14-02-2012, 21:07
to be hones i blame it partially on the spl, they had the chance to fix it but voted against it, the fans wanted a 16/18 top league no split ( the biggest turn off in football) and automatic relegation for 2 teams with a playoff for the 3rd one
but since they need 11-1 vote they other teams voted it out that would mean they likely get relegated so it didn't come
if rangers go completely bust which i really think they will, then i think sfa has to rop in the spl and sfl and say enough is enough we are taking control of scottish football if you the ones who wanted the breakway league dnt like it either give use your resignation or accept what we are going to do. and i dnt see them resignation now because they wont get there own deal with no rangers and only celtic
then make a top tier of 16/18 club switch 3 relegation spots one a play off,
second tier with 18 clubs with 2 automatic promotions and 4 teams in a playoff spot and 3 relegation spots and 1 play off again,
3rd tier the same as the 2nd,
a 4th tier with the same promotion credtianal as 2nd and 3rd, but has 4 relegation spot that are automatic with 1 into 4 leagues that would be east,west,south and north and thee would include junior teams and amateurs team etc giving them the chance to get into real football. to fill out the space in 3rd tier they could use c team of the bigger club ie there youth teams playing regular competitive football instead of youth matches
move to playing from febuary to November with winter break, change it so there is two cups the scottish cup and upper league cup and lower league cup maybe introducer a community cup winner of the top flight against scottish cup winner
this would make scottish football better
people thoughts?
people thoughts?
All fine but it doesn't address the core issue. They don't get the attendance. Scotland need to look to the Danish and Scandinavian leagues for inspiration but crucially they would need to accept that they will be a niche league and it's problematic with the Old Firm.
Andrewcrawford23
14-02-2012, 21:29
yeah i totally agree but part of the reaosn for the attendances from people i know is the league split, it is unfair and boring, and the fact teh spl has rule that means teams liek falkirk never got promtoed i think on 4 occassion after winning the first divison make it boring, basically the spl became a elite laegue and noe o th teams where willing to give up the richs
apart fromt he above i think they need to put rules in place that say your outgoings can only be matched to your incoming include transfer fees, but head down the the youth route and train layer and sell them on (but that one might not work for long since epl and spanish leageu are about ready to burst) but they need to change the game form teh ground up and league restructing would be a big start and might sttract more peopel out thinkign the game oculd be mroe interesting and if the old firm are made to be not so big so other teams can win that would help to i mean with rules govern what team can do in scotland
Arthurgray50@blu
14-02-2012, 21:59
The sad part is that the SFA cannot do without Rangers and Celtic, BUT there has been so much trouble between these two clubs over the years, so therefore the fan base is declining and this is where clubs are losing revenue.
Scottish football needs money, and they won't get it from Sky or ESPN, already clubs play each other twice at home.
I was watching a Scottish game recently and the ground was nearly empty, this is why players leave to go south of the border.
It needs a big big shake up, and the sad thing is its Rangers that are paying the price, if l am not wrong they get deducted 10 points, therefore giving Celtic the title by default which to me is totally unfair.
MalteseFalcon
14-02-2012, 22:09
What astounds me is how these clubs, Ranger and Portsmouth, are allowed to rack up these big tax bills with HMRC? Surely after one or even two months of not paying it, you issue court proceedings to get it paid, not let it build to £75m in Rangers case.
Arthurgray50@blu
14-02-2012, 22:15
According to a tax expert on the radio, clubs make arrangements which allow so many days to pay it, then do it again if they cannot pay.
Its a loophole in the tax system used by accountants, and the HMRC only take this action when they know they cannot get it back.
Didn't the same thing happen with Plymouth (if l am wrong, l apologise to Plymouth FC)
What astounds me is how these clubs, Ranger and Portsmouth, are allowed to rack up these big tax bills with HMRC? Surely after one or even two months of not paying it, you issue court proceedings to get it paid, not let it build to £75m in Rangers case.
in our case it was the ebt scheme, which was legal at the time but the loophole was closed by hmrc, we and a quite a few other clubs used this scheme at the time, we got caught as did a few others but we're the main case though or test case as you will.
arsenal racked up 300 million which was owed to hmrc but they paid just 9m settlement or something along those lines, however they will be one of the clubs to face hmrc, wether their debt to hmrc has been paid in full remains to be seen.
It needs a big big shake up, and the sad thing is its Rangers that are paying the price, if l am not wrong they get deducted 10 points, therefore giving Celtic the title by default which to me is totally unfair.
How is it unfair? Rangers are paying the price for their own mismanagement. Rangers' problems are not because of the league, it's because of their failure to adapt to their situation. Celtic have managed to break even after all. Celtic will win the league because they have budgeted better and been run better.
---------- Post added at 22:23 ---------- Previous post was at 22:17 ----------
in our case it was the ebt scheme, which was legal at the time but the loophole was closed by hmrc, we and a quite a few other clubs used this scheme at the time, we got caught as did a few others but we're the main case though or test case as you will.
arsenal racked up 300 million which was owed to hmrc but they paid just 9m settlement or something along those lines, however they will be one of the clubs to face hmrc, wether their debt to hmrc has been paid in full remains to be seen.
That doesn't make any sense. HMRC can't retrospectively change the tax rules and go back to people and demand they more tax on former transactions to reflect new rules. Nor can Arsenal pay a settlement and then be dragged in to face HMRC because they have changed their minds. It sounds like Rangers continued to exploit loopholes that were closed.
I can't even find what case that is, only a couple of posts on Rangers forums.
How is it unfair? Rangers are paying the price for their own mismanagement. Rangers' problems are not because of the league, it's because of their failure to adapt to their situation. Celtic have managed to break even after all. Celtic will win the league because they have budgeted better and been run better.
---------- Post added at 22:23 ---------- Previous post was at 22:17 ----------
That doesn't make any sense. HMRC can't retrospectively change the tax rules and go back to people and demand they more tax on former transactions to reflect new rules. Nor can Arsenal pay a settlement and then be dragged in to face HMRC because they have changed their minds.
I can't even find what case that is, only a couple of posts on Rangers forums.
i'll see if i can hunt the article down, pretty sure it was from the guardian, they either paid or didn't and yes rangers (murray) did continue to use the loophole, how'd you think rangers managed to pay martin bain 500+k a year for doing next to sweet f a and buying a crap load of sun tan lotion, all board of directors got the same treatment then you have the dick advocaat era and his unlimited cheque book
Cobbydaler
14-02-2012, 22:46
From what I've been told the SPL is barely Champions league.
You do mean Championship, not Champions League don't you? ;)
It sounds like Rangers continued to exploit loopholes that were closed.
I can't even find what case that is, only a couple of posts on Rangers forums.
They used a loophole that was perfectly legal but seem to have run it in a way that left them open to action. Basically, and this may be incorrect as I'm no tax expert, they paid high earner wages into an offshore company from which the player could claim money from as a loan that never needed paid back. As it was a 'loan' there was a lower tax on the money than if it was a wage.
Rangers allegedly had this written into contracts as a wage or benefit rather than keeping it under the table.
If the tax case went our way then no bill but HMRC would appeal leaving another year or two of uncertainty. If it went against Rangers the bill plus penalties would be almost 18 months of turnover.
Whyte, who I believe has previous for this type of thing, seems to have come in with express intention of running up as much debt as possible by not paying anything, salting away money from player and ticket sales and now one of his pals is the receiver he'll phoenix the company and hope the other Scottish clubs accept the new Rangers into the league while the creditors for the old company (HMRC and the ticketing company mostly) can whistle for the cash. :mad:
According to The Times (Paywall) (http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/article3319741.ece) they also owe £9 million from unpaid PAYE. That's not even a loophole, that's just basic tax.
Rangers FC, one of the most famous names in British football and one half of Scotland’s “Old Firm”, has been forced into early administration because the club has gone several months without handing over PAYE deducted from players’ wages.
The unpaid income tax and VAT covers the period since May last year, when the club was taken over by Craig Whyte. It was said by the administrators to total about £9 million and was the key factor in the decision by Revenue & Customs (HMRC) to launch a court action yesterday that ended with the Glasgow club appointing the administrators Duff & Phelps....
....A source with knowledge of the financial dispute said that Rangers’ claim that its troubles were down to the long-term debt was a “smokescreen” and the taxman was also pursuing the club for unpaid income tax.
---------- Post added at 09:52 ---------- Previous post was at 09:45 ----------
i'll see if i can hunt the article down, pretty sure it was from the guardian, they either paid or didn't and yes rangers (murray) did continue to use the loophole, how'd you think rangers managed to pay martin bain 500+k a year for doing next to sweet f a and buying a crap load of sun tan lotion, all board of directors got the same treatment then you have the dick advocaat era and his unlimited cheque book
Found it: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/news/9082870/Premier-League-sides-forced-to-pay-back-millions-of-pounds-in-tax-after-crackdown-on-image-rights-deals.html
The mass settlement of up to six years back-tax relating to image rights payments saw as many as 15 Premier League clubs strike a deal with HMRC, including Chelsea, who paid out £6.4million to settle their disputed bill with the authorities.
Under new legislation, companies with disputed EBT issues had to settle them by Dec 31. Arsenal are one club that historically used EBTs to pay some players but they are understood to have resolved any issues with HMRC.
According to The Times (Paywall) (http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/article3319741.ece) they also owe £9 million from unpaid PAYE. That's not even a loophole, that's just basic tax.
Which is why I think Whyte has planned to fold the club from the very beginning. He's refused to pay anything until legal action was taken and the money coming in has vanished.
He has previous for it and it's a worrying time to be on the blue half of Glasgow.
Which is why I think Whyte has planned to fold the club from the very beginning. He's refused to pay anything until legal action was taken and the money coming in has vanished.
He has previous for it and it's a worrying time to be on the blue half of Glasgow.
Yes he is an idiot. It's weird that he just waited for legal action. He said he knew it was a prospect the HRMC may come after them but it's pretty obvious since he wasn't paying PAYE! Talk about baiting the bear.
IF Rangers goes bust what to the fans do, I now hell will freeze over before many would ever support Celtic?
Andrewcrawford23
15-02-2012, 11:04
there hope a new rangers could be form but ti will be shadow of the one we see jus tnow
and they will have to play in the 3rd division and it unliekly ibrox would be there home and very unliekly they willg et the players they have jus tnow they will have to contend with 1st/2nd player quailty and maybe take years to get back to the premier league, as there be no point in spending loads and pay huge wages to get back quick to be in teh same boat as they are now pretty quick
but as i keep wondering and has been asked many times and it looks liek we all will find out is can scottish football truly survive without the big two as they bring the money to the game thorugh tv and sponsership wihtout them the tv deal sponship deal will fall thorugh
If this rumour about forming a new club is true, under the ownership of the same people, then I hope the SPL reject any plans to let them in at the same level. That would be a blatant cheat.
Whyte, who I believe has previous for this type of thing, seems to have come in with express intention of running up as much debt as possible by not paying anything, salting away money from player and ticket sales and now one of his pals is the receiver he'll phoenix the company and hope the other Scottish clubs accept the new Rangers into the league while the creditors for the old company (HMRC and the ticketing company mostly) can whistle for the cash.
Wouldn't that leave Ibrox in the hands of the creditors?
whyte is the main creditor then hmrc, whyte has a plan though what it is atm is un clear but he does have something up is sleave though
i can't go into much detail on a public forum, so i'll leave it at that.
Andrewcrawford23
15-02-2012, 18:00
whyte is the main creditor then hmrc, whyte has a plan though what it is atm is un clear but he does have something up is sleave though
i can't go into much detail on a public forum, so i'll leave it at that.
it is simply to forma new club and buy the raners assests
then the old rangers folds as with it history but i think he being a bit naive if he think he can join teh spl with a new club as the rules stat you have to start in the lowest division that why they never get into england they have to start in teh blue square league and the money lost trying to get the pl would be to great, but in teh case hte money lsot try to to get toe spl will be to much as with the fact there might not be a pl the time they get there since with rangers gone tehre no tv money and sponership money will go and there a lot of club just suriving becaus f the tv money alone and will go bust liek rangers
whyte is the main creditor then hmrc, whyte has a plan though what it is atm is un clear but he does have something up is sleave though
i can't go into much detail on a public forum, so i'll leave it at that.
His plan seems to be running the most successful football club in the world into the ground whilst asset stripping The club and screwing creditors big and small.
He's either banking on the other Scottish clubs allowing a new Rangers to re-enter the SPL knowing the smaller teams rely on the games against them and Celtic or clinging to some fanciful notion he can merge Rangers with an English club (supporters of a certain club be very scared, I have it on good authority Mr Whyte is sniffing round a first division team right now) and try and take their place in the English league with a hybrid team.
Either way Rangers are screwed. If not illegally he's certainly acted immorally towards the employees and creditors and should never be allowed near any company ever again.
https://twitter.com/#!/skysports_bryan/status/170275367242829825
Strathclyde Police say they are examining information "regarding the ongoing situation at Rangers". No further details confirmed.
---------- Post added at 22:43 ---------- Previous post was at 22:40 ----------
I have to say it all sounds very odd. Today there was a discussion that Rangers expected to be out of administration within the month. What's going on?
nomadking
16-02-2012, 22:54
Rangers administration: 'Invisible' £24m probed (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-17067141)
Rangers director Dave King believes it is "inevitable" the club will plunge into liquidation and today launched a series of scathing attacks on former owner Sir David Murray and the current regime under Craig Whyte.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9128134/Rangers-director-Dave-King-clubs-liquidation-inevitable.html
players leaving...
Alan Fry
07-03-2012, 15:18
Here is what I think should happen to Scottish Football, the old firm should leave the SPL, either join the EPL or form a Atlantic League with the Major clubs of the Neatherlands, Belguim, Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Portugal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_League_(football)
they should join the EPL > http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/88/33685588-would-you-like-see-celtic-rangers.html
Atlantic League is a bit too much, no thanks we've got Euro comps.
denphone
07-03-2012, 15:26
Yes its a very shocking and very depressing sight to see this.
I don't see it as depressing.
If you set out to do something dodgy (players contracts etc), which they seem to say has been going on for years (without league knowing about it), and you try and play games with the taxman...and get caught...you pay the price
Can't stand the heat? Get out of the kitchen
I've said for years that football was paying silly money, and it had to catch someone out...if it happens to be Rangers..so be it. I'd say the same it it was my club
Alan Fry
08-03-2012, 13:43
I don't see it as depressing.
If you set out to do something dodgy (players contracts etc), which they seem to say has been going on for years (without league knowing about it), and you try and play games with the taxman...and get caught...you pay the price
Can't stand the heat? Get out of the kitchen
I've said for years that football was paying silly money, and it had to catch someone out...if it happens to be Rangers..so be it. I'd say the same it it was my club
Lord Sugar said that to stop the tolarence of footballs debt problems, it would take a major club to shut down, will this be case?
denphone
08-03-2012, 17:48
Lord Sugar said that to stop the tolarence of footballs debt problems, it would take a major club to shut down, will this be case?
Well we shall see Alan.
Well we shall see Alan.
I think you should call him Lord Sugar :D (not Lord Fry)
Alan Fry
08-03-2012, 22:11
I think you should call him Lord Sugar :D (not Lord Fry)
He said it in his latest book
Lord Sugar said that to stop the tolarence of footballs debt problems, it would take a major club to shut down, will this be case?
No. Rangers debt problems were never that bad until the EBT thing reared its head. They had an amount well under their annual turnover (unlike say Hearts...) which was slowly being reduced. Having banks removing facilities due to the ongoing tax issues and a quite possibly crooked new owner who scammed the club from a previous owner didn't help issues.
IF the tribunal goes against Rangers then a number of other teams are in line for a kicking from the taxman that makes Rangers £49 million look like spare change.
Alan Fry
12-03-2012, 10:24
No. Rangers debt problems were never that bad until the EBT thing reared its head. They had an amount well under their annual turnover (unlike say Hearts...) which was slowly being reduced. Having banks removing facilities due to the ongoing tax issues and a quite possibly crooked new owner who scammed the club from a previous owner didn't help issues.
IF the tribunal goes against Rangers then a number of other teams are in line for a kicking from the taxman that makes Rangers £49 million look like spare change.
Maybe that what it will have to take to fix footballs financial problems?
Arthurgray50@blu
12-03-2012, 10:45
At one time Scottish football was a big thing, you had some great clubs Aberdeen, Motherwell etc, but for some unknown reason everything seems to go around Rangers and Celtic.
What has to happen is to streamline the way Scottish football runs, we know that when there is bad weather in Scotland, loads of games get postponed and they lose money ie paying wages etc. Why don't they break the season up, so they don't play in the winter months.
With the financial problems at Rangers l blame two sets of people - one the clubs directors for allowing it to happen, and the largest is the inland revenue.
Scottish Football needs finance, but they won't get it from television, buts clubs could always get all weather pitches - but that costs money.
So, a man walks into a cafe in Sauchiehall Street and asks, "What's soup of the day pal?", to which the waiter replies, "That would be the Rangers Soup."
The man asks, "What kind of soup is that?"
"Administrone," the waiter replies.
Da-dum-tishhh!
What has to happen is to streamline the way Scottish football runs, we know that when there is bad weather in Scotland, loads of games get postponed and they lose money ie paying wages etc. Why don't they break the season up, so they don't play in the winter months.
If I recall SCottish football did have a winter break for a few seasons several years ago - but due to unpredictable weather and mild winters they sat round twiddling thumbs during mild Jan / Feb & having games postponed when they reconvened Feb /Mar
Arthurgray50@blu
12-03-2012, 11:06
The only other solution would be all weather pitches, but then clubs in the lower division would not be able to afford them.
Each game l watch of Scottish football, the grounds are half empty, so there must be another reason - l don't want to walk down the road of people out of work who cannot afford the prices to get into the grounds.
I am a big fan of Scottie football, so maybe a Tv company can come along and show the games worldwide and get the profits from adverts.
Alan Fry
12-03-2012, 12:39
The only other solution would be all weather pitches, but then clubs in the lower division would not be able to afford them.
Each game l watch of Scottish football, the grounds are half empty, so there must be another reason - l don't want to walk down the road of people out of work who cannot afford the prices to get into the grounds.
I am a big fan of Scottie football, so maybe a Tv company can come along and show the games worldwide and get the profits from adverts.
Fans all across the world only want to watch the Big European clubs, but Irish and Scottish fans outside Scotland might be interested
I wouldn't pay to watch.
I don't see it being inland revenues fault...they shouldn't spend what they don't have.
i remember rangers paying silly money for tore andre flo...and he was dire
The problem is the escalating wages, transfer fees. It is a vicious circle..then add agents..and you have a recipe for disaster
Alan Fry
13-03-2012, 09:51
I wouldn't pay to watch.
I don't see it being inland revenues fault...they shouldn't spend what they don't have.
i remember rangers paying silly money for tore andre flo...and he was dire
The problem is the escalating wages, transfer fees. It is a vicious circle..then add agents..and you have a recipe for disaster
So you are not keen on BSkyB and ESPN currently hold the rights to the SPL
Arthurgray50@blu
13-03-2012, 11:14
Alan, you have hit the nail on the head, Its the wages and the agents that are killing football.
This kind of thing never happened years ago, if a player wanted to leave, he spoke with the manager and that was it.
Now the club has to go through the agent before speaking to the player.
Several weeks ago a Spurs player stated that his agent was dealing with the club about HIS future. The wages in Scotland are not has high as in the PL, But the SPL, PL and FA should sit down at thrash this out, Its like certain players from Man Utd and Chelsea are on 250.000 per WEEK, which is disgusting.
Alan Fry
13-03-2012, 11:35
Alan, you have hit the nail on the head, Its the wages and the agents that are killing football.
This kind of thing never happened years ago, if a player wanted to leave, he spoke with the manager and that was it.
Now the club has to go through the agent before speaking to the player.
Several weeks ago a Spurs player stated that his agent was dealing with the club about HIS future. The wages in Scotland are not has high as in the PL, But the SPL, PL and FA should sit down at thrash this out, Its like certain players from Man Utd and Chelsea are on 250.000 per WEEK, which is disgusting.
Its about time the top clubs move out of the top national leagues and into a European Super League, there they can pay what they want while other club have a better ablity to pay more reasonable wages
If I was a Rangers player (hopefully not a anti-Irish one) I would be taking that 75% pay cut sooner rather than later
denphone
13-03-2012, 11:39
Its about time the top clubs move out of the top national leagues and into a European Super League, there they can pay what they want while other club have a better ablity to pay more reasonable wages
If I was a Rangers player (hopefully not a anti-Irish one) I would be taking that 75% pay cut sooner rather than later
But we already have a European Super League via the Champions League Alan.
Alan Fry
13-03-2012, 11:45
But we already have a European Super League via the Champions League Alan.
I am talking about a EPL style league, but with Europe's top clubs
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