View Full Version : Why does Virgin assume every PC user is an idiot?
So here i am again, paying for a 20mb service yet getting 2mb.
Ring up 150 on my virgin phone again!
Same old rubbish, indian call centre, unplug this wait 20 secs restart that etc etc etc, THIS DOES NOTHING!
@ Virgin , its not my pc, its your service that isnt doing what you advertise!
I am so disgusted with way Virgin treat treat their customers.
Well i told them its either fixed by the end of this week or ill just cancel the direct debit and throw their equipment into the road.
Over to you Virgin.
Mick Fisher
29-01-2012, 19:43
So here i am again, paying for a 20mb service yet getting 2mb.
Ring up 150 on my virgin phone again!
Same old rubbish, indian call centre, unplug this wait 20 secs restart that etc etc etc, THIS DOES NOTHING!
@ Virgin , its not my pc, its your service that isnt doing what you advertise!
I am so disgusted with way Virgin treat treat their customers.
Well i told them its either fixed by the end of this week or ill just cancel the direct debit and throw their equipment into the road.
Over to you Virgin.
Try telling all that to Retentions, they will do their best to help in order to retain your custom, unlike the Indian call centre who haven't got a clue and couldn't give a damn.
Yes but how do you get through to retentions? Half the time im faced by a generic Indian person who is clearly reading instructions from a card and knows nothing about the problems i have!
The conversation usually ends up in me getting ratty with them and them just staying silent until either i or they drop the phone call.
Its pretty embarassing is it not for a massive company like Virgin to have such poor poor customer service.
What winds me up the most is the amount of cash they much of spent on this new " double your speed" promotion and advertising yet their customer service is a nothing more than a joke.
It is rather pointless ringing on a Sunday as you will just get offshore so try tomorrow as soon after 8am as possible.
Also this is not an Official Virgin Media Forum so little point posting that you will stop your direct debit and throw the equipment out into the road as no one will ever read it from Virgin Media.
You should try posting on the Official Virgin Media Forum which can be found HERE (http://community.virginmedia.com/)
but again they cannot deal with account issues only fault issues so a call to Retentions is in order tomorrow, when you ring try 150 option 5 option 2 thinking of leaving us, the same route if using 0845 454 1111.
So here i am again, paying for a 20mb service yet getting 2mb.
Ring up 150 on my virgin phone again!
Same old rubbish, indian call centre, unplug this wait 20 secs restart that etc etc etc, THIS DOES NOTHING!
@ Virgin , its not my pc, its your service that isnt doing what you advertise!
I am so disgusted with way Virgin treat treat their customers.
Well i told them its either fixed by the end of this week or ill just cancel the direct debit and throw their equipment into the road.
Over to you Virgin.
Restarting your modem will trigger a docsis download if required, it also renews bits like your local lease and such, so it actually fixes about 90% of the faults ..
As for cancelling your DD, I understand the frustration, but you do that, you then owe VM money, they send bailiffs, you get a bad credit score .. it's not worth it ..
Call CR and get it sorted.
Tim Deegan
29-01-2012, 23:01
As for cancelling your DD, I understand the frustration, but you do that, you then owe VM money, they send bailiffs, you get a bad credit score .. it's not worth it ..
Not really, as they aren't providing the service that the customer is paying for. So they are in breach of contract.
Anyway, I agree with others who have said to call on a week day to try and get a UK call centre. It's your only hope.
Not really, as they aren't providing the service that the customer is paying for. So they are in breach of contract.
Anyway, I agree with others who have said to call on a week day to try and get a UK call centre. It's your only hope.
How do we actually know that as the may not be a history of calls on the account and they may have just assumed the is a fault and decided that is the way to go, why do you think I just offered the information above.
Stopping your payment is the worst thing you could ever do as it can affect your credit history and incur bailiff visits, they should follow my post above for a correct resolution.
Not really, as they aren't providing the service that the customer is paying for. So they are in breach of contract.
You know it doesn't work like that with big companies .. unless as Peter has said he can prove it and I mean provide some serious evidence, the courts will rule in favour of VM and it will cost him a lot more challenging it.
So many people just decide to stop paying, its standard process for VM, they have plenty of departments are staff paid to deal with that kinda thing, were as it would take over the OPs life ..
I'm not saying don't challenge a big company and I'm certainly not saying put up with a poor service, but go the route of credits, complaints and end your contract with them correctly.
kwikbreaks
30-01-2012, 08:54
Just cancelling a DD is always a bad move and usually leads to a bigger bill than doing things the right way. No matter how bad the service is proving it in court would be a problem - better trying to persuade retentions - 150 "thinking of leaving" - that things needs sorting out is the way forward. They may give a discount or they could agree to a no-penalty parting. Once the DD is dead you are dealing with the legal department.
Just cancelling a DD is always a bad move and usually leads to a bigger bill than doing things the right way. No matter how bad the service is proving it in court would be a problem - better trying to persuade retentions - 150 "thinking of leaving" - that things needs sorting out is the way forward. They may give a discount or they could agree to a no-penalty parting. Once the DD is dead you are dealing with the legal department.
Is there an echo in here ?
kwikbreaks
30-01-2012, 19:11
Some people don't believe VM staff for some reason :shocked: so independent advice helps folks make the right decision. If my post actually duplicates somebody else's rather than being similar to your own sorry but I do have some VM staff on my ignore list as they irritate me.
andybrock
30-01-2012, 20:14
Yes but how do you get through to retentions? Half the time im faced by a generic Indian person who is clearly reading instructions from a card and knows nothing about the problems i have!
The conversation usually ends up in me getting ratty with them and them just staying silent until either i or they drop the phone call.
Its pretty embarassing is it not for a massive company like Virgin to have such poor poor customer service.
What winds me up the most is the amount of cash they much of spent on this new " double your speed" promotion and advertising yet their customer service is a nothing more than a joke.
Just spoke to Retentions this evening, UK CS and was very helpful
150/Option 5.
Good luck;)
I find certain members irritating as well, but that is of little concern to me so tough. https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2012/04/8.gif
Some people don't believe VM staff for some reason :shocked: so independent advice helps folks make the right decision. If my post actually duplicates somebody else's rather than being similar to your own sorry but I do have some VM staff on my ignore list as they irritate me.
If someone reads my posts and then chooses to believe I'm talking rubbish for the sake of VM then they are of little importance to me.
Glad the op got it sorted.
If someone reads my posts and then chooses to believe I'm talking rubbish for the sake of VM then they are of little importance to me.
Glad the op got it sorted.
They forget that I am shortly to be made redundant and therefore why would I be loyal to a company doing that, I would not even think of going to Swansea to floorwalk their gradbay because that would be selling my job which I would never do.
kwikbreaks
31-01-2012, 06:18
Glad the op got it sorted.We don't know if they did - the OP was stepp and his last post was asking how to contact retentions which you didn't answer.
I posted how to contact Retentions in my first post but as you have me on ignore because I will not agree with what you spout you failed to notice, case in point how very very sad.
We don't know if they did - the OP was stepp and his last post was asking how to contact retentions which you didn't answer.
Why would I? He wont believe me anyway ...
DJSADERS
31-01-2012, 20:35
The indian call centre is useless (my own personal opinion) best bet is to call cancellations and 9 times out of 10 you will get through to someone who can help.
The thing is that all tech support calls will start off the same no matter which company you call.. It's easier for the agent to assume that you know nothing and work from the bottom than for them to assume that you know a lot and confuse you with technical details..
When calling though the first thing I explain along with the issue is that a reboot, new cable, reset..etc hasn't cured it and most of the time they will realise that you have a basic technical knowledge.
qasdfdsaq
31-01-2012, 22:11
Not where I work they don't.
The thing is that all tech support calls will start off the same no matter which company you call.. It's easier for the agent to assume that you know nothing and work from the bottom than for them to assume that you know a lot and confuse you with technical details..
When calling though the first thing I explain along with the issue is that a reboot, new cable, reset..etc hasn't cured it and most of the time they will realise that you have a basic technical knowledge.
You have to put it across correctly though, many customers call up claiming to be engineers or computer "experts" and then get Confused when you ask them technical questions.
It's been a long time since I took calls, but the best was the old surfboard modems with a standby button, you would spend an hour going through all the most technical troubleshooting because the expert refused to look at the basics .. The agents have to have some level of call control and keep a logical process in mind, customers lie ..
Not where I work they don't.
I expect you do not deal with the general public in your position so the assumption is the people you deal with have genuine knowledge.
---------- Post added at 05:43 ---------- Previous post was at 05:40 ----------
You have to put it across correctly though, many customers call up claiming to be engineers or computer "experts" and then get Confused when you ask them technical questions.
It's been a long time since I took calls, but the best was the old surfboard modems with a standby button, you would spend an hour going through all the most technical troubleshooting because the expert refused to look at the basics .. The agents have to have some level of call control and keep a logical process in mind, customers lie ..
Many times we get people on the phone who state right away that they are a network engineer or a computer administrator and that obviously they have knowledge of computers, so you want to say check they are connected ad you ask them to go to the Command line/Dos prompt and the line goes quiet and moments later they say "Er I cannot remember the way to get there" or a similar remark, I try to direct in as simple terms as possible on most calls and it gets results.
Not where I work they don't.
Where do you work ?
Not where I work they don't.
There are always exceptions to the rule... Some inhouse desks, restricted desks or technical equipment desks can be assured that the callers are at least semi trained..
I was though talking about public calls ;) You know the type where people like us call and we can be assured that the we're not the one on the other end reading from a script :D
kwikbreaks
01-02-2012, 09:12
.. customers lie ..In another life I worked in tech support for a software company - even supposed IT professionals lie or rather miss out key facts when describing an issue.
I have some sympathy with any TS bods starting along the standard fix route if there is one for whatever they're supporting. What I do find irritating is the lies and BS that come from some TS once they have exhausted their knowledge.
Mind you the "idiot" tag works both ways: When I had a modem/line problem the Indian agent was adamant that it was something on my PC even though I'd told him that the modem showed an upstream power of 61dbmv on QSPK and I'm only 50yds from the main box!
Only after getting a UK agent (third attempt) has the problem been resolved.
I am truly shocked at that.:D
qasdfdsaq
01-02-2012, 10:04
I expect you do not deal with the general public in your position so the assumption is the people you deal with have genuine knowledge.
Not all of them, though that could be largely true. There's a vast spectrum.
Looking back to my last role, where we had to deal with the general public (and in particular, 16-18 year old school leavers grappling with UCAS and the likes) there was a far higher share of idiots on both ends of the line...
---------- Post added at 09:58 ---------- Previous post was at 09:56 ----------
Where do you work ?
Edinburgh University, School of Informatics.
(And no, that does not mean all my "callers" are computer scientists, we have our fair share of non-technical staff as well as collaborators from Psychology, Biology and Language Sciences all using our services)
---------- Post added at 10:01 ---------- Previous post was at 09:58 ----------
What I do find irritating is the lies and BS that come from some TS once they have exhausted their knowledge.
This.
---------- Post added at 10:04 ---------- Previous post was at 10:01 ----------
Command line diagnostics: Sorts the men from the boys. :)
Command line? What's command line? We don't run Windows here. Single-user shell mode is where it's at.
[/COLOR]
Edinburgh University, School of Informatics.
(And no, that does not mean all my "callers" are computer scientists, we have our fair share of non-technical staff as well as collaborators from Psychology, Biology and Language Sciences all using our services)[COLOR="Silver"]
I've always found tech support in Uni's to be of a high standard, basically because their user base tends to be a very well educated group.
Saying that, I bet you get paid (even your lowest support line) more than double the wage a 1st line agent is offered now.
You get what you pay for ..
qasdfdsaq
01-02-2012, 12:09
See I wouldn't agree entirely. As above, we deal with everything from 16-18 year old school kids to 60-80 year old retirees who've never used a computer before in their life. In between, the majority of our support calls come in from non-academic staff, such as admin, secretarial, management, security, and maintenance. I'd say these people are no more or less educated than similar staff in any other company. I work with great people, but there's no magically elevated level of elite computer literacy here, we deal with average folk with average computer knowledge every day and do so without scripts, lies or fobbing people off. And at the end of the day, we are all members of the general public as well.
(I believe the lowest pay grade for computing support staff here is Grade 3, which starts at £15.5K, with more senior (second-line/sysadmin) roles at around £20-25K. I don't think these are exceptionally high either, so it's not all just a case of money)
See I wouldn't agree entirely. As above, we deal with everything from 16-18 year old school kids to 60-80 year old retirees who've never used a computer before in their life. In between, the majority of our support calls come in from non-academic staff, such as admin, secretarial, management, security, and maintenance. I'd say these people are no more or less educated than similar staff in any other company. I work with great people, but there's no magically elevated level of elite computer literacy here, we deal with average folk with average computer knowledge every day and do so without scripts, lies or fobbing people off. And at the end of the day, we are all members of the general public as well.
(I believe the lowest pay grade for computing support staff here is Grade 3, which starts at £15.5K, with more senior (second-line/sysadmin) roles at around £20-25K. I don't think these are exceptionally high either, so it's not all just a case of money)
Then I don't know, maybe the amount of people required at low wage makes it difficult to ensure the highest quality throughout.
qasdfdsaq
01-02-2012, 13:51
I'd agree on the number of staff issue, though more on the basis of size than wage - size is probably a big issue - that, and the fact that offshore call centres are very rarely done right. Our (my) current team consists of less than 10 people, which makes it easy for everyone to meet and discuss things regularly, my old department has nearly hit 40, which has already made training more difficult, I'd imagine at 400 sitting everyone in the same room becomes a challenge let alone addressing everyone's training and information needs.
Lot more than 400 agents .. but yeah, the training it there and the teams are broken down into groups for management and quality, but it must be difficult to keep consistency with such a range of attitudes and skill sets.
tweetiepooh
01-02-2012, 16:15
In it's broadest sense whether that be DOS, cmd or a linux/unix shell of your choice: I prefer the C shell but that was what I was bought up with before PCs ever existed. On the Windows PC the 4DOS command shell is my choice with a set of unix emulations.
C-shell or tcsh are horrible. Give me a Bourne/Korn shell derivative anytime,
I mostly use bash but am looking at zsh and maybe fish.
Should always be able to get the info with mode tools, long live vi, down with emacs. :cool:
tweetiepooh
02-02-2012, 12:03
And you accuse csh of being horrible. :D
Maybe 'cos I do a lot of C programming I'm happy with a C syntax shell.
vi is wonderful and it's always there. Need to edit a file on a server whose network is down. Logon to console port, find the file and vi away. (Yes emacs, nano and others are also text based but they aren't there unless installed and vi is at least on our Solaris servers.)
Going off topic but we have issues with some users using csh and others on ksh. Folk then write scripts that assume one or the other so don't work for some users and it's very hard to debug.
I tend to code mostly in Perl so prefer shells that behave how I want but can understand why a C programmer would prefer csh. Any UNIX shell knocks socks off the (default) command shell in Windows though.
To be honest in my case they are not far out
kwikbreaks
02-02-2012, 16:06
Any UNIX shell knocks socks off the (default) command shell in Windows though.Try getting VM support if that's what you are using...
qasdfdsaq
02-02-2012, 17:56
I've heard a few stories of users saying "I'm using Ubuntu" and VM support replying "We don't support Ubuntu, you must install Windows before we help you."
I've heard a few stories of users saying "I'm using Ubuntu" and VM support replying "We don't support Ubuntu, you must install Windows before we help you."
That is so funny
vi is wonderful and it's always there. Need to edit a file on a server whose network is down. Logon to console port, find the file and vi away. (Yes emacs, nano and others are also text based but they aren't there unless installed and vi is at least on our Solaris servers.)
Going off topic but we have issues with some users using csh and others on ksh. Folk then write scripts that assume one or the other so don't work for some users and it's very hard to debug.
I tend to code mostly in Perl so prefer shells that behave how I want but can understand why a C programmer would prefer csh. Any UNIX shell knocks socks off the (default) command shell in Windows though.
vi is a pita ..
support scope has to be in place and it's balanced again cost of training and user base.
I've heard a few stories of users saying "I'm using Ubuntu" and VM support replying "We don't support Ubuntu, you must install Windows before we help you."
That is so funny
For me the service has been 99.9% perfect and the need to ring the call centres has been minimal..
I was going to get a job for VM at the call centres but they have nothing near cambridge :(
Got offered a position but in manchester
I've heard a few stories of users saying "I'm using Ubuntu" and VM support replying "We don't support Ubuntu, you must install Windows before we help you."
Some agents get brown trousered when it is mentioned, but the average linux user knows his O/S and should not really need to mention his O/S and just convert the agents instructions in their head.
Even if they mention it to me I just carry on as we support the connection, I have used various versions of linux in the past so know it works just as well as anything else.
Officially it is an unsupported O/S though.
qasdfdsaq
03-02-2012, 00:02
Exactly - if the connection has a problem the OS is irrelevant. If the OS is causing the problem though, then of course it's unsupported - though then again I wouldn't expect VM to help with problems with my OS if the connection is not at fault. And yes, it's often far easier to pretend I'm running Windows than try to explain to the Indian fellas what exactly OpenIndiana is (yes I run that on my home network too :))
There are mind you a few people on Ubuntu because of cost - it's free after all - rather than because they actually want to be. Remember those short-lived netbooks that came with Ubuntu instead of Windows?
Exactly - if the connection has a problem the OS is irrelevant. If the OS is causing the problem though, then of course it's unsupported - though then again I wouldn't expect VM to help with problems with my OS if the connection is not at fault. And yes, it's often far easier to pretend I'm running Windows than try to explain to the Indian fellas what exactly OpenIndiana is (yes I run that on my home network too :))
There are mind you a few people on Ubuntu because of cost - it's free after all - rather than because they actually want to be. Remember those short-lived netbooks that came with Ubuntu instead of Windows?
Exactly.:)
Some agents get brown trousered when it is mentioned, but the average linux user knows his O/S and should not really need to mention his O/S and just convert the agents instructions in their head.
Even if they mention it to me I just carry on as we support the connection, I have used various versions of linux in the past so know it works just as well as anything else.
Officially it is an unsupported O/S though.
would you not fail your quality if that call was recorded?
would you not fail your quality if that call was recorded?
Maybe but at least I sorted out the customer but as long as they either followed instructions or never mentioned it does it really matter as officially we only support the connection, using the O/S as a reason to terminate the call is a get out clause to many people use.
I have only ever had one person state they were a linux user so no idea how others I have spoken to.
Plus I have passed quality every time over the last year and achieved my bonus so not overly bothered, plus I hope to be gone soon enough.;)
Maybe but at least I sorted out the customer but as long as they either followed instructions or never mentioned it does it really matter as officially we only support the connection, using the O/S as a reason to terminate the call is a get out clause to many people use.
I have only ever had one person state they were a linux user so no idea how others I have spoken to.
Plus I have passed quality every time over the last year and achieved my bonus so not overly bothered, plus I hope to be gone soon enough.;)
Flip flop on your normal stance around process ... I agree the best should be done before advising a call can not be continued.
Flip flop on your normal stance around process ... I agree the best should be done before advising a call can not be continued.
I always do my level best for any caller and I have great AHT plus I achieve bonus so a win win for the customer and myself.;)
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