How to connect Virgin Super Hub to different points of coax cable?

[resander]

We have had Virgin Media TV, Phone and Broadband for about 4 years and it has worked fine.
Broadband has been connected via a Belkin router. The broadband was 10Mb and we decided to upgrade the speed to 30Mb. This requires a Virgin Super Hub (modem and router in one box) which was delivered a couple of days ago.

I connected the Super Hub and found that wired and wireless connections work fine on the ground floor and that wireless has got worse on the second floor where the signal is weak and typically drops after 20 minutes. The previous cable modem provided by Virgin Media and the Belkin router in the same place performed much better which I found surprising. We need the extra speed so do not want to return the super hub and revert to 10Mb.

I think the positioning of the hub may be very important but the cabling does not allow me to experiment.

We live in a mid-terrace house with the Virgin Media cable coming in through the front wall to the living room. The coax cable goes along the skirting board and then through the wall to an extension at the back where the hub (and the previous Belkin router) is located. Two desktop PCs in the extension use wired connections and two laptops and a netbook connect wirelessly in two bedrooms at the front on the second floor.

I want to keep the coax end point in the extension room and have two additional connection points for the hub along the coax cable in the living room: one halfway into the room and the other near the window (can put the hub on the window sill) . I think any of these connection points for the hub would give better wireless on the second floor.

Q1. Will placing two-way coax cable splitters at these points work?

Q2. Would the splitters and the original end point just being present degrade the cable and/or wireless performance? If so, what about having only one two-way splitter?

Q3. My initial thought is to connect the hub to only one of these points and use two ethernet cables for wired connections of the dektop PCs in the extension room, but I still have the cable modem and the Belkin router. Could I use these at the end point in the extension room in addition to the super hub in the living room at the same time and use shorter ethernet cables? This would reduce the cable clutter in the living room.

Q4. There is a 'F-Type Screw Connector Splitter For Virgin Cable 2 way' at amazon
http://www.amazon.co.uk/F-Type-Screw-Connector-Splitter-Virgin/dp/B003OSZGTU/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1326101346&sr=8-5 and probably at ebay and other places too.
Is this the correct type?

Q5. Virgin Media describes the Super Hub as 'The best wireless broadband performance available'.
'Improved coverage, with fewer black spots in your network'. 'Fantastic range, so you can work further away from your router'. The hub is certainly not super here. An ageing three year old £20 Belkin provides better wireless reception on the second floor. Should not be. Any case for having a Virgin engineer come and fit splitters or whatever is required free of charge?


Ken
(cabling newbie)

[Kymmy]

You do know that you can use your old router and just put the superhub in MODEM MODE??

As for cabling changes splitters/coax will all effect the signal, if you want VM to do that then it will be chargeable.

[Sephiroth]

In addition to Kymmy's valid answer, I'll dare to offer an opinion on your Q5.

VM's claims for the SH in respect of wireless are misleading, incapable of being substabtiated and, IMO, frankly disreputable.

[resander]

Many thanks,

Did not know about the MODEM MODE of the hub. Will plug in Belkin and see how it compares next time I can have the system to myself.

So splitters etc added to the coax cable affect the signal. Typically/at worst by how much for 30Mb speed say?

Instead of splicing in two-way splitters for the existing cable I could just leave it and disconnect it from the broadband entry point in the living room and buy another coax cable of suitable length and connect it to the entry point and put the hub at the other end. That would also make it easier to move the hub around and experiment in the living room.

Being a cabling newbie exactly what type of coax cable shall I buy? What type of connectors at each end of the cable? Or any other info that will help me to buy the right thing(s)? Online shops where I can buy?

Ken

[Kymmy]

The simple rule is that the longer the coax and the more splitters the more attenuation on the signal, which in turn depends on your original figures as to if it effects your connection. A low signal won't effect your broadband speed like for example ADSL it's more than likely to be a plateau effect and when the signal lowers enough you'll go from have a 30Mb connection to not having any connection. Sepiroth though can explain it a lot better than I ever could..

I presume though you had the hub installed where you wanted it so why change? If the Belkin works then it's an immediate measure which gives you the same wifi that you're already used to. Hopefully they'll eventually get the SH wifi running properly but that's a whole other thread,

[Sephiroth]

If you have a strong downstream power level (say 5 dBmv), then installing a professionally made length of coax cable to make a single run, will not attenuate the signal to below optimum value. If you add a length of cable via a splitter or connector, then there's c. 3 dB further signal strength loss.

You also have to watch upstream power although if that's around 40 dBmv then adding cable/ 1 x splitter isn't going to push that up over limits.

My solution would be different, but may not appeal to you because thereis cost involved. I have the SH installed at the point of entry to the house. The SH is in Modem Mode. The output of the SH goes to a Powerline adaptor in a mains socket (made by Devolo - 200AV model). In another room, I have the router and another Devolo Powerline adaptor. I connect from there by ethernet to the wireless router. There is no loss of any sort due to this arrangement.

Hope that helps.

[Nopanic]

In addition to Kymmy's valid answer, I'll dare to offer an opinion on your Q5.

VM's claims for the SH in respect of wireless are misleading, incapable of being substabtiated and, IMO, frankly disreputable.

Useful post .. I think I spotted a thread were you forgot to tell everyone how hard done by you feel by the advertising of the SH's wireless.

People's opinions means nothing when it comes to getting things for free from VM .. Call them, explain the situation and your ideas, speak to them like you want to be spoken to and see if you can get what you want.

No harm in trying.

[resander]

Many thanks for the kind advice.

We moved in here 2008 and asked the VM installation engineer to put the broadband modem in the extension at the back and I added a Belkin router next to it since there is no space for desktop PCs in the other rooms. Wired connections worked fine and wireless to the second floor too.

The Super Hub arrived by courier a few days ago so I connected it in the extension room assuming it would perform better than the adslmodem&belkin combination for wireless. It appears I have a pig in a poke.

The signal from the Belkin router and the hub's router has to go through a plastered single layer brick wall (the old external brick wall now embedded in the extension room), the ceiling and a plastered internal wall to reach a front bedroom on the second floor. Belkin delivered a usable signal for wireless at 10Mb.

However, wireless works fine in the extension room and on the ground floor with the hub, so I hope the wireless on the second floor will improve if I place the hub in the living room just under the bedrooms beaming up signals more or less at a right angle. I want to buy a good/correct coax cable to use between the broadband entry point and the hub and hence my newbie question what to buy in the previous post.

When I bought the Belkin the broadband speed was 2Mb. VM upgraded 2Mb to 10Mb and the Belkin router still worked. I was pleased about that, but will it continue to work at 30Mb offered by VM now? Or is that likely to be out of spec for the Belkin that is now getting on a bit?

Ken

[Kymmy]

Wired it'll cope, wifi might be slightly down if it's 802.11g or full speed for 802.11n

If you're going to use the SH in modem mode and the Belkin as the router then leave the SH where it is and run a long ethernet cable to the Belkin. That way the Belkin can be more central until VM get the wifi sorted or a better option comes along.

[General Maximus]

Call them, explain the situation and your ideas, speak to them like you want to be spoken to and see if you can get what you want.

No harm in trying.

I tried that and ended up wasting 4 hours of my time. We know that when it comes to the shub they just dont want to listen. The dude who I spoke to in retentions swore r29 was the best thing sinced sliced bread and refused to even try and get me my vmng300 back.

[Sephiroth]

[QUOTE=Nopanic;35358019]Useful post .. I think I spotted a thread were you forgot to tell everyone how hard done by you feel by the advertising of the SH's wireless.
....QUOTE]
I didn't have a choice about the SH. The engineer came to fix a fault (which actually was in the street cab, whipped out the VMNG300 and put the SH on. I had no say in the matter because he said it was VM's propery.

So I'm perfectly at liberty to take an independent view of VM's disgraceful calims about wireless performance and so on. I put the wretched thing straight into modem mode.

@ resander
Regarding the old Belkin, try Googling for your Belkin model along with the term "WAN to LAN throughput". I think I used this site (http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/index.php?option=com_chart&Itemid=189&chart=119&farchive=off).

[Nopanic]

[QUOTE=Nopanic;35358019]Useful post .. I think I spotted a thread were you forgot to tell everyone how hard done by you feel by the advertising of the SH's wireless.
....QUOTE]
I didn't have a choice about the SH. The engineer came to fix a fault (which actually was in the street cab, whipped out the VMNG300 and put the SH on. I had no say in the matter because he said it was VM's propery.

So I'm perfectly at liberty to take an independent view of VM's disgraceful calims about wireless performance and so on. I put the wretched thing straight into modem mode.

@ resander
Regarding the old Belkin, try Googling for your Belkin model along with the term "WAN to LAN throughput". I think I used this site (http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/index.php?option=com_chart&Itemid=189&chart=119&farchive=off).

I didn't question your comments, I just don't believe they have a place in very thread you post in.

To be perfectly honest, they are becoming almost troll like. Put it in your sig and be done with it :cool:

[resander]

I wanted to try putting the hub into modem mode, plugging the Belkin into an ethernet port and experiment with the Belkin at various points in the living room (Kymmy's suggestion). The hub and two desktop PC are in the extension at the back.

I have a 10 meter ethernet cable, enough for placing the Belkin under the second floor front bedrooms. According to the hub documentation only one ethernet port on the hub is enabled in modem mode so the desktop PC wired connections would have to plug into Belkin's ethernet ports. That means I have to use three ethernet cables (sigh) and I have only one at the moment.

The back bed room on the second floor is more or less on top of the hub. I tried the netbook and laptops from there and found wireless worked fine without connections dropping. Then wireless will probably also work in the front bedrooms if I move the hub to a position just underneath. I want to try this, but


Q1. exactly what kind of cable etc do I need to order from ebay, amazon or other online stores? A 5m cable will be sufficient. I have absolutely no knowledge about this and would probably get it wrong if I guess.

Ken
P.S The VM entry point is below the living room window. Inside it splits into a cable that feeds the TV and the broadband cable that I like to leave intact.
I will disconnect the existing broadband cable and attach the new one going to the hub instead at the TV&broadband splitting point.

Q2. three of the four ports of the hub are disabled in modem mode. If there is a way to disable wireless of the hub then could I plug in Belkin and the two desktop PCs into the ethernet ports of the hub and have the hub handle the wired connections and Belkin the wireless?
In advanced settings for the hub there is a heading 'Enhance Feature' with two ticked toggles:
Enable Super Hub Wireless Radio
Enable SSID Broadcast
Would unticking these totally disable the wireless of the hub?

[Kymmy]

Unticking the first one should totally disable the wifi - [Enable Super Hub Wireless Radio]

[Sephiroth]

With regard to Q2, what you want to do with the SH, keeping it in hub mode, is perfectly respectable. The Belkin router should be placed in the DMZ of the SH so as to minimise the work the SH has to do in routing to the Belkin. That's not essential, though. The Belkin may need to be placed into Bridge Mode.

With regard to Q1, you need RG6 coaxial cable. Make sure the ends are professionally fitted (Coaxial Male F connector). If done DIY and you're not sufficiently careful, the cable will pick up all sorts of RF noise and ruin it all.

[General Maximus]

When you was talking about cables i thought you meant ethernet cables to connect your devices to your router. If that is the case you want to be looking for "cat5e patch cable", length and colour are up to you.

The reason why the shub has got 4 ports on the back is because that is the router part of the hub for you to connect your devices just like your belking router. When you put it in modem mode in makes the shub a modem which means the routing bits get disabled and only port 1 works to relay the data to another device just like a modem would. If you find you are running short of ports on your belkin router you can always keep the router with the shub and run a cable round to the room with the most devices and use a switch to connect them to the router