View Full Version : Superhub So exactly how good is modem mode?
zekeisaszekedoes
06-12-2011, 22:01
I have the VMNG300, sent to me by a lovely fella in the CEO's office who acknowledged my problems with the Super Hub on the 30Mb tier.
Since I stopped using it apparently the modem mode is out of beta (finally!) and the Super Hub is said to be stable when running this way into a decent router.
I just wondered how it now compares to the VMNG300 when using it as just a modem? Is base latency etc higher, as it used to be? Would it be worth swapping out the VMNG300 for the Super Hub again?
It's a modem in modem mode, your put your router on and that make/model of router is what you want to be asking the question about.
Do you have any issues with your current service ? if the answer is no, why bother?
As the VMNG300 is fast approaching the end of its life due to the rollout of up to 8 downstreams leave well alone and stay in modem mode, it does exactly what it says.
pabscars
07-12-2011, 09:43
I would be tempted to swap it out, for no other reason than to be ready for the switch to 8 downstreams as Masque says, it makes sense really.
If I were you zeke, I'd hook it all up and run your own test's to see if you gain or loose any base latency but I suspect there won't be much in it.
8 downstream channels on 30meg is overkill, I'd stick to the vmng300
8 downstream channels on 30meg is overkill, I'd stick to the vmng300
It will struggle once the 8 are in place.
It will struggle once the 8 are in place.
Doubt it or there would be a mass swap going on right now, which there isnt[COLOR="Silver"]
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Doubt it or there would be a mass swap going on right now, which there isnt[COLOR="Silver"]
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I expect any swapouts will be if and when the customer rings in with an issue and not before.;)
pabscars
07-12-2011, 14:39
8 downstream channels on 30meg is overkill, I'd stick to the vmng300
Everyone knows more is better,,,,,,
It just is :D
Just ask Jezza :p:
I went from 50mb to 100mb 7 days ago and found the wireless speeds from the hub dismal so put it straight into modem mode and connected my router up and havent had any problems.
I went from 50mb to 100mb 7 days ago and found the wireless speeds from the hub dismal so put it straight into modem mode and connected my router up and havent had any problems.
The hubs were set up to have the wireless speed set to 300Mb, VM have found out that alot of customers equiment do not support/like ect this setting so if you try setting the wireless speed on the hub lower you MIGHT find this resolves the problem
General Maximus
08-12-2011, 18:27
It will struggle once the 8 are in place.
what about all these upgrades next year and bumping everyone from 50mbit up to 100mbit. There is no way they are going to send an engineer round to everyone's house and give them a shub
roughbeast
08-12-2011, 19:44
I didn't even try the superhub in modem/router mode. I used modem only mode straight away. There have been no problems. It works.
Here is a speed test from a wireless connection in the opposite corner of our house from our WNDR3700 router.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2011/12/55.png (http://www.speedtest.net)
what about all these upgrades next year and bumping everyone from 50mbit up to 100mbit. There is no way they are going to send an engineer round to everyone's house and give them a shub
We've been telling you for ages the SH is the way to go .. Wouldn't surprise me if they ask us to filter only those with one for the upgrades :D
Probably, as far as I can see now r30 is available with modem mode
There is no plausible case for keeping a vmng300
It has 100TBase Ethernet port and limited to 4 channels
Compared to 1000TBase Ethernet ports on the superhub and 8 channel compatibility
So straight off those 2 alone are 1 up over vmng300
So what if wireless and routing features are useless plug a router in it shove it in modem mode and it will behave just like the vmng300 did anyway
General Maximus
09-12-2011, 20:38
It has 100TBase Ethernet port and limited to 4 channels
The VMNG300 has got a gigabit port otherwise it wouldn't be able to do 200mbits :erm:
The VMNG300 has got a gigabit port otherwise it wouldn't be able to do 200mbits :erm:
If it does, fair dos my mistake and im wrong on that one and stand corrected.
BUT
it is still down on the channels.
and while it is no problem currently.. it will be later on.. at least one area is already using 5 channels.... so it is imminent that more channels will be used than the VMNG300 can support.
So theres no reason why a VMNG300 should be preferred over a superhub NOW R30 is released.
Prior to R30 yes I agree all the way VMNG300.. but not now.
you got lower speeds on the superhub, but you never confirmned whether you tried it in modem mode?
As I can get 97mbit fine on the superhub.. so its clearly capable.
roughbeast
09-12-2011, 20:52
The VMNG300 has got a gigabit port otherwise it wouldn't be able to do 200mbits :erm:
All true. It shows up when directly connected to your PC as a gigabit piece of kit.
They didn't use the VMNG300 for the 200Mb trials, only because it couldn't handle the 8 channels required. The techie told me it could handle 400Mb too, but not using 8 bonded channels.
i dont need 8 downstream channels, 4 is more than enough
Channel bonding is just a way to spread the load over the network, its not the essential component to high speeds. It just helps. So yeah, the VMNG300 is a capable little bugger, but with VM's network being so heavily utilized they need to spread that load which is why the Superhub is it's replacement.
I do remember seeing for myself that the SH had a higher average latency than the VMNG300. I wonder if modem mode has changed that with the routing functions being disabled?
probably has, it was the routing functions that have always been useless on it... and the wifi.
lol.. but I found using some 9 dB aerials on it fixes the wifi range problem.
General Maximus
09-12-2011, 21:16
As I can get 97mbit fine on the superhub.. so its clearly capable.
it might be capable but for whatever reason I wasn't getting it, but as soon as I reconnect a VMNG300 I do. I don't what the difference is and why it happened but that is why I wanted it back and why i always want to keep it. It has always been 100% and never let me down :nworthy:
I've been wondering the same thing. I have a beautifully reliable 20Mb service currently, and have been waiting for the superhub issues to be sorted before upgrading to 30Mb or 50Mb. Sounds like modem mode with my existing router will be OK now. Are the superhubs delivered now with R30 installed ?
roughbeast
11-12-2011, 12:05
I do remember seeing for myself that the SH had a higher average latency than the VMNG300. I wonder if modem mode has changed that with the routing functions being disabled?
I don't know if modem mode has changed that or not. Anecdotal eveidence only; all I can say is my my shub is looking great in modem-only mode. It looks better than VMNG300 did on 50Mb.
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/35342929-post1.html
Thinking back my typical ping at speedtest.net was 35ms+ with the VMNG300. Typically now it is -32ms.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2011/12/62.png (http://www.speedtest.net)
I've been wondering the same thing. I have a beautifully reliable 20Mb service currently, and have been waiting for the superhub issues to be sorted before upgrading to 30Mb or 50Mb. Sounds like modem mode with my existing router will be OK now. Are the superhubs delivered now with R30 installed ?
I recieved a new superhub on Friday. If you let me know where to look, I'll let you know.
---------- Post added at 12:43 ---------- Previous post was at 12:41 ----------
I recieved a new superhub on Friday. If you let me know where to look, I'll let you know.
Is this what you're looking for:
Information
Standard Specification Compliant EU DOCSIS 3.0
Hardware Version 2.00
Software Version V5.5.2R30
Software Version V5.5.2R30
That suggests R30, yes :-)
General Maximus
11-12-2011, 18:38
it doesn't get shipped with R30, I think it is R19, and when it gets activated on the network it automatically downloads the latest firmware
roughbeast
11-12-2011, 20:22
it doesn't get shipped with R30, I think it is R19, and when it gets activated on the network it automatically downloads the latest firmware
If not you can always reboot it and that will prompt it to download new firmware.
Instructions are pretty good here: http://help.virginmedia.com/system/selfservice.controller?CMD=VIEW_ARTICLE&ARTICLE_ID=412750&CURRENT_CMD=SEARCH&CONFIGURATION=1002&PARTITION_ID=1&USERTYPE=1&LANGUAGE=en&COUNTY=us&VM_CUSTOMER_TYPE=
My main concern now is that I may move off an un-congested legacy 20Mb network onto a potentially congested over-utilised DOCSIS3 network. So the Superhub is not the only risk in upgrading from 20Mb to 30Mb or 50Mb.... Sigh. I see many posts that if you are in that situation, it can take months for it to be resolved.
carbon60
12-12-2011, 12:43
My main concern now is that I may move off an un-congested legacy 20Mb network onto a potentially congested over-utilised DOCSIS3 network. So the Superhub is not the only risk in upgrading from 20Mb to 30Mb or 50Mb.... Sigh. I see many posts that if you are in that situation, it can take months for it to be resolved.
Are you 100% sure that you are on the legacy network? I'm on 20Mbit and I was moved onto the new overlay network around 2 years ago. For me the legacy network was congested and when I was moved then I got the full 20Mbit all of the time. I haven't moved to the SuperHub and 30Mbit due to FUD, I still have a SA 2100v2 modem I assume connecting via DOSCIS 2.
Chrysalis
12-12-2011, 17:13
I have the VMNG300, sent to me by a lovely fella in the CEO's office who acknowledged my problems with the Super Hub on the 30Mb tier.
Since I stopped using it apparently the modem mode is out of beta (finally!) and the Super Hub is said to be stable when running this way into a decent router.
I just wondered how it now compares to the VMNG300 when using it as just a modem? Is base latency etc higher, as it used to be? Would it be worth swapping out the VMNG300 for the Super Hub again?
there is still a jitter/latency difference although in my view VM have retweaked the network settings so the difference is not as big as it used to be. This is noticeable on web browsing.
There is no other noticeable difference I have noticed.
Are you 100% sure that you are on the legacy network? I'm on 20Mbit and I was moved onto the new overlay network around 2 years ago. For me the legacy network was congested and when I was moved then I got the full 20Mbit all of the time. I haven't moved to the SuperHub and 30Mbit due to FUD, I still have a SA 2100v2 modem I assume connecting via DOSCIS 2.
Well, no... I just assumed that I was. My connection was 10Mb when first installed at the end of 2008, and after 12 mths I upgraded to 20Mb, same modem just done over the phone. How would I know what network I am on ?
carbon60
13-12-2011, 11:28
Well, no... I just assumed that I was. My connection was 10Mb when first installed at the end of 2008, and after 12 mths I upgraded to 20Mb, same modem just done over the phone. How would I know what network I am on ?
I worked it out from the Downstream Frequency the modem locks onto. Goto http://192.168.100.1 and check against these:
New Overlay Network Frequencies:
299000000 Hz
307000000 Hz
315000000 Hz
323000000 Hz
Old Legacy Network Frequencies:
331000000 Hz
339000000 Hz
The Old Legacy Network frequencies may vary in different areas but the New Overlay frequencies appear to be pretty consistent nationwide.
zekeisaszekedoes
14-12-2011, 11:14
Do you have any issues with your current service ? if the answer is no, why bother?
Curiosity. You know, one of the driving forces of human nature? ;) :p: :D
The hubs were set up to have the wireless speed set to 300Mb, VM have found out that alot of customers equiment do not support/like ect this setting so if you try setting the wireless speed on the hub lower you MIGHT find this resolves the problem
It's not the consumer's existing kit, it's the wireless radio (and/or firmware?!) itself causing the trouble, I believe. The wireless on the Super Hub has poor range and drops out more than a... hmmm, guess I can't quite finish that simile.
Here is a speed test from a wireless connection in the opposite corner of our house from our WNDR3700 router.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2011/12/55.png (http://www.speedtest.net)
Wow, that's good for what is a fairly cheap SOHO router.
Anyway, I did try reconnecting the Super Hub as I believe both MACs were left registered on the account. The odd thing is, it will connect to what appears to be a single DOCSIS1 downstream but does not connect to the internet, also does not fall back to the walled garden setup menu. I still have a beta firmware version on there from when I was testing but dropped out because it was a pain to keep swapping both around.
Anyway, I did try reconnecting the Super Hub as I believe both MACs were left registered on the account. The odd thing is, it will connect to what appears to be a single DOCSIS1 downstream but does not connect to the internet, also does not fall back to the walled garden setup menu.
It may be listed on your account but it will not be provisioned, but you can call up to get the provisioning swapped over to the Superhub which in turn will disable the VMNG300.
I worked it out from the Downstream Frequency the modem locks onto. Goto http://192.168.100.1 and check against these:
New Overlay Network Frequencies:
299000000 Hz
307000000 Hz
315000000 Hz
323000000 Hz
Old Legacy Network Frequencies:
331000000 Hz
339000000 Hz
The Old Legacy Network frequencies may vary in different areas but the New Overlay frequencies appear to be pretty consistent nationwide.
I get nothing like that, I get
Cable Modem : Euro-DOCSIS 1.0/1.1/2.0 Compliant
plus some other stuff probably not relevant
Since it is not DOCSIS3, I take it I am indeed on the legacy network
Ignitionnet
14-12-2011, 21:01
Nah, that's just your modem, it can be on the overlay network as the overlay network is backwards compatible.
Do you not have a downstream frequency anywhere? How about upstream details?
carbon60
14-12-2011, 21:25
I get nothing like that, I get
Cable Modem : Euro-DOCSIS 1.0/1.1/2.0 Compliant
plus some other stuff probably not relevant
Since it is not DOCSIS3, I take it I am indeed on the legacy network
It won't say DOCSIS3 since you don't have a DOCSIS3 modem, it doesn't indicate what network you are on. I have a DOCSIS2 modem but I am on the overlay network.
What modem do you have? On my Scientific Atlanta 2100 modem I have to click on the Signal tab to get the information required.
Nah, that's just your modem, it can be on the overlay network as the overlay network is backwards compatible.
Do you not have a downstream frequency anywhere? How about upstream details?
Can't see any frequencies anywhere, will look further. All it gives is info on the modem, about 6 lines and my mac address
Got it
Downstream Frequency : 307000000 Hz
So I am on the new network then ? If so, then I'll go ahead with a 50MB upgrade. Worst case I put the superhub into modem only mode. And if I'm already on the new network, then if it was congested I'd probably know about it already.
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Need to speak to retentions... they want £8 per month extra to go from 20Mb to 30MB, and £15 a month extra to go from 20Mb to 50Mb. They are having a laugh !!
General Maximus
16-12-2011, 18:43
they want £8 per month extra to go from 20Mb to 30MB, and £15 a month extra to go from 20Mb to 50Mb. They are having a laugh !!
if you ask me it is well worth it dude, I made the jump from 20mbit to 50mbit a few years ago and the difference is amazing. If you feel you would benefit from the speed increase then the cost is insignificant.
Well - I got an email several months ago stating I could upgrade to 50Mb for £3 per month extra. I'm going to quote that to them and ask how £3 becomes £15. I didn't do it at the time because of worries over the superhub.
General Maximus
17-12-2011, 08:37
what modem have you got atm?
General Maximus
17-12-2011, 14:24
Bummer, that will only go up to ~25mbit so you are going to need a shub :-(
I'm more relaxed about the superhub now, it seems that R30 and modem-only mode will be as reliable as the Ambit 256, tied with my existing Netgear router. Of course it would be better if the Superhub could replace both, and I'd try that as well. But wireless is crtical to me, and it seems even with R30 that is still rubbish.
General Maximus
17-12-2011, 18:14
Of course it would be better if the Superhub could replace both, and I'd try that as well.
It wouldn't, I would never take an isp provided router, free or not, because at the end of the day all they care about is price and that is it. Everybody has different needs which is why we have the choice of buying soho routers for £30-£120. Trying to make a router to suit everyone's needs and then saying you are giving it away for free is just a joke. It is like the government forcing everyone to have a Ford Fiesta, saying that it guaranteed to meet everyone needs. I would rather pay £100 to get something I like and that works and that is what I have done.
My advise to you and everyone else is that if you have already got a router and are happy with it then dont even give the shub a chance because you will be supremely disappointed. Just bang it in modem mode and be done with it.
jordyGFC
17-12-2011, 18:36
When i got a super hub is came in the post and i hooked it up myself, i doubt every one needs an engineer to swap a cable around from one to the other and even if your that stupid, you get a cd (which also installs VM crapware) but sure, cant complain if you go from 50-100 for free :)
My advise to you and everyone else is that if you have already got a router and are happy with it then dont even give the shub a chance because you will be supremely disappointed. Just bang it in modem mode and be done with it.
I'm certainly expecting that is what I'd have to do. My ISP supplied (Virgin) router has worked flawlessly for 3+ years now.
But I really should get an updated one which has "N" wireless speed at some point. Theoretically the superhub can provide that, but so many reports of it being crap I'll almost certainly buy a new router/AP.
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