View Full Version : ADSL BT or not BT, that is the question
I've just moved house and no longer have access to cable so I switched to Virgin National.
The adsl I have now was working ok until today when a guy from BT turned up and "reconnected" my phone line to get the phone to work but the net connection is now barely usable.
I expected adsl to be worse than cable but before today and the BT Engineer's visit, the connection wasn't too bad for my type of internet use.
Have I been switched to a dud line because I moved my phone to VM? Anyone know why the BT engineer couldn't use the line that was already working for the net if not the phone?
Do I take up the poor connection issue with BT or VM? Ta.
My "speedtest" result: Overall Average Speed = approx 1240 Kbps, 1.21 Mbps
djfunkdup
28-10-2011, 06:10
If you had spent 2 min doing some searching online you would see that VM adsl service is terrible..
what exchange are you connected too : http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange_search
General Maximus
28-10-2011, 22:50
can you get BT infinity? It is 40mbit atm which is going to be doubled to 80 so you won't be missing out on VM calbe too much
If you had spent 2 min doing some searching online you would see that VM adsl service is terrible..
what exchange are you connected too : http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange_search
Doh! Trouble is, when you're moving house there's so much to sort out some things slip by and by the time it counted, I wasn't online.
can you get BT infinity? It is 40mbit atm which is going to be doubled to 80 so you won't be missing out on VM calbe too much
BT Infinity is scheduled for December (but it's already been put back 3 months from September so who knows when it will actually be available) and I needed something in the meantime.
But this connection is like stirring treacle :sleep:
General Maximus
29-10-2011, 08:35
i know it if of no comfort now the nice thing about having a ****** connection now is that when you do go back to fibre (when BT get round to it) the difference is going to be amazing you are going to think you have died and gone to heaven. It is probably going to be analagous to going from dialup to BB; what a day that was :)
If you had spent 2 min doing some searching online you would see that VM adsl service is terrible..
What an awesome post ..
BUT if you search online for any ISP youll fine shocking reports ..
ADSL from VM isn't as bad as everyone makes out, ADSL in general is crap.
kwikbreaks
29-10-2011, 09:42
ADSL from a decent LLU provider such as Be on a good line can be pretty good. For gamers it would probably beat most cable connections.
The only reason I moved to cable despite the numerous horror stories I'd seen of poor support and allowing areas to stay massively congested for months on end was a duff line that OpenReach failed to fix after 5 visits. Even with the fault it was delivering 16Mbps but the phone was unusable. I wish I'd thought of VOIP at the time instead of jumping to cable because guess what - I'm now seeing massive congestion on cable. Of course that problem may get fixed in a reasonable time but I'm not holding my breath.
i know it if of no comfort now the nice thing about having a ****** connection now is that when you do go back to fibre (when BT get round to it) the difference is going to be amazing you are going to think you have died and gone to heaven. It is probably going to be analagous to going from dialup to BB; what a day that was :)
Yeah, I kind of get your point. The trouble is at the moment I've gone from the sublime to the ridiculous. I've seen reports of leaving the new router on for at least 10 days so that VM can check the line and deliver the best speed - is that just a load of balls?
If this does carry on the way it is I'll have no choice but to go with Buzz Lightyear's advice :rolleyes:
General Maximus
30-10-2011, 22:15
i really need to start proof reading my posts. Anyways, i don't believe that VM take the time to make a baseline for each connection to their network. At most I would expect them to do it per area so they have got an idea of what is going on but there are so many factors which contribute to your speed on dsl connections which makes everyone different anyway.
I would have a look here and see what it says.
http://www.uswitch.com/broadband/postcode_checker/#products=advanced%3D1
There was a site i found a couple of years ago which told you what the max speed was you could expect based on your distance from the exchange but i can't find it now. Things are looking up though, before the most i could have gotten on adsl was 3.2mbit, now it is saying i can get 8mbit on a 24mbit connection.
Despite their short comings, this is where I have got to give VM credit. I know we all flap about advertised speed but if i signed up for a 24mbit connection and found out that the most i could get was one third of that, I would flip my lid. With VM, even at the worst of times, I get at least half my speed (25+). It is a shame we can't cable the whole of the UK and get rid of phone lines altogether. We could all use voip :Sun:
i really need to start proof reading my posts. Anyways, i don't believe that VM take the time to make a baseline for each connection to their network. At most I would expect them to do it per area so they have got an idea of what is going on but there are so many factors which contribute to your speed on dsl connections which makes everyone different anyway.
I would have a look here and see what it says.
http://www.uswitch.com/broadband/postcode_checker/#products=advanced%3D1
There was a site i found a couple of years ago which told you what the max speed was you could expect based on your distance from the exchange but i can't find it now. Things are looking up though, before the most i could have gotten on adsl was 3.2mbit, now it is saying i can get 8mbit on a 24mbit connection.
Despite their short comings, this is where I have got to give VM credit. I know we all flap about advertised speed but if i signed up for a 24mbit connection and found out that the most i could get was one third of that, I would flip my lid. With VM, even at the worst of times, I get at least half my speed (25+). It is a shame we can't cable the whole of the UK and get rid of phone lines altogether. We could all use voip :Sun:
Tried the link and it says I can get cable - I can't, so I think the internet has started to take the **** out of me :D. I even asked VM to cablemystreet but it was a no-goer.
Incidentally, as an insight for those who moan that cable isn't any good, I clicked your link 8 times before I could connect and I've seen more time-outs in a week than I've ever seen - this phone line lark is really trash. Can't see me paying for it much longer, it's just not worth the frustration.
What an awesome post ..
BUT if you search online for any ISP youll fine shocking reports ..
ADSL from VM isn't as bad as everyone makes out, ADSL in general is crap.
In many (most?) places, ADSL from Virgin is just re-sold BT wholesale product, so there's little scope for it to be any different.
I always found it to be good value though, and reliable once they dealt with some nasty, persistent capacity issues back in the early days. I only jumped ship when they terminated the legacy package I was on and made it just too expensive to justify.
I now have BT with a nice, shiny Homehub v3. Having been on BT for about 6 weeks now, I'm finding that they are more prone to peak-time congestion and downtime than VM ADSL was.
Obviously there's no difference in my sync speed as I'm still using the same physical copper wires. The sync speed has steadily improved over the past 5 years but i think that's because the local BT engineers seem to lavish a lot of loving care on the 4 miles of highly exposed, pole-mounted cable between my house and the exchange.
dilli-theclaw
31-10-2011, 08:36
The only real problem I've had with having VM on ADSL is that when I've had major isues it took ages for them to get BT openreach out to deal with it.
Would it be any quicker if it wasn't a VM problem? - I don't know as I /think/ openreach isn't supposed to discriminate based on the isp.
But in all the cases they (openreach) have sorted it out really quickly when they got here.
General Maximus
31-10-2011, 08:38
this phone line lark is really trash. Can't see me paying for it much longer, it's just not worth the frustration.
I know how you feel dude, I went from being on dialup in the early days of the internet straight onto ntl BB and have always been on the highest tier since. I am going to be getting a new job at some point in the next year which will involve moving house and I am going to make sure that wherever i move to is cabled because there is no chance I am going to even try adsl. The only other thing i can hope for is if it is a non-cabled area, that Buzz is around and it has been doubled to 80mbit, I wouldn't mind that.
The only real problem I've had with having VM on ADSL is that when I've had major isues it took ages for them to get BT openreach out to deal with it.
Would it be any quicker if it wasn't a VM problem? - I don't know as I /think/ openreach isn't supposed to discriminate based on the isp.
But in all the cases they (openreach) have sorted it out really quickly when they got here.
I think the reluctance may have been on VM's part, as they would have to pay Openreach for the call-out.
In the past, with BT for phone and VM for ADSL, I would always resolve ADSL issues by calling BT and complaining about crackle on the line during voice calls, seeing as the two always go hand in hand around here anyway.
BT would send someone out very quickly and once they got to work on the line, any audible crackle and ADSL issues would get dealt with at the same time.
djfunkdup
31-10-2011, 12:38
What an awesome post ..
BUT if you search online for any ISP youll fine shocking reports ..
ADSL from VM isn't as bad as everyone makes out, ADSL in general is crap.
Thanks for pointing out how awesome my post is :D unlike your effort which is actually a load of pants :dunce:
their are plenty of good ADSL suppliers..AAISP ,ZEN ,BE* but to name a few.
virginmedia ADSL is just resold BT IPSTREAM and actually is carp unlike their CABLE service.... :angel:
I would recommend looking at PlusNet as an ISP, cannot fault them.
Well, it sounds like someone is frying an egg on my phone line. VM reckon its the filter and are sending me another one. I spoke to a guy from BT too he said he could hear the racket on the line and that I should contact Virgin about it. I'm still getting a devastatingly speedy 1.2mbps. YAWN. I mean, it's making all my pron look jerky (well, even more jerky if you know what I mean :D)
Let's face it, I'm doomed aren't I?
STOP PRESS: 1.92Mbps! I am rockin'
yawn.
kwikbreaks
01-11-2011, 16:31
Try turning off the router and either do a quiet line test (dial 17070 and option 2 iirc) or simply dial a 0. You should get something pretty close to silence. If you try that again with the router powered up and hear noise then it's either a duff filter (rule out by swapping it for another one) or a type of line fault known as a high resistance disconnect - a bad joint which is acting as a rectifier and converting the ADSL RF signal to one you can hear on the line.
I had one of those. 5 Openreach callouts (I just called it in as a voice fault) and no fix despite them claiming to have replaced every line segment back to the exchange. The last bloke spotted it as an ADSL issue and said pursue it through the ISP. They were useless - applied a huge target noise margin slowing the BB down to a crawl (and having zero effect on the noise) then sending out a replacement router to my old address. I lost the will to let them continue guessing and moved to cable instead.
Thanks for the posts everyone. Yep kwikbreaks, turned off the router and did the quiet line test and all was quiet. Turned router back on and the fuzz returned. I'm hoping the replacement filter that's on its way will do the trick. The high resistance disconnect thing sounds scarier.
If VM will give me the cable, I'll dig up the pavement myself rather than put up with this service; it's like the dark ages.
Accessed an image heavy site today. I hope we don't have any cold callers tonight as I have a baseball bat looking to thwack something...
Chrysalis
02-11-2011, 10:44
I think the reluctance may have been on VM's part, as they would have to pay Openreach for the call-out.
In the past, with BT for phone and VM for ADSL, I would always resolve ADSL issues by calling BT and complaining about crackle on the line during voice calls, seeing as the two always go hand in hand around here anyway.
BT would send someone out very quickly and once they got to work on the line, any audible crackle and ADSL issues would get dealt with at the same time.
Now days they will do a remote test, and if it passes then they will say if we send someone out there is a fee (over £100) unless they find a fault. Nice detterrent.
Now days they will do a remote test, and if it passes then they will say if we send someone out there is a fee (over £100) unless they find a fault. Nice detterrent.
To be fair, VM warned me about that. They said there were a few things that had to be tried (changing filter, checking socket) before BT were asked to check the line. If they come and the basic tests have not been done, they will sting you big time.
Got an over 2Mbps connection today; if it carries on like this the sky's the limit (no pun intended).
No sign of the promised replacement filter yet.
Phone line still making a demented ssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh sound.
Connection speed is consistently less than 2.5Mbps.
I never thought the day would come when I would be hoping and praying for the 6.5Mbps I was told I would get before I signed up for Virgin National.
Seriously, this is useless. I can fart stronger than this connection :mad:.
why wait for vm to send you a filter? Nip down to the local pooter shop (or even pcworld!) and buy one!! or even think about popping on a filtered faceplate ....that way you can pick a good quality filter
Just my humble thoughts
Andy
why wait for vm to send you a filter? Nip down to the local pooter shop (or even pcworld!) and buy one!! or even think about popping on a filtered faceplate ....that way you can pick a good quality filter
Just my humble thoughts
Andy
Yep, fair point Andy. It's just that VM said they'd send me a new filter and a faceplate so I thought I'd wait. The guy I spoke to in tech seemed on the ball so I thought the wait might not be too long. May have to revert to Plan B for expediency though. Ta.
I will say, Virgin National may have improved, but back when I used it, well, it was quite horribly slow. I would be lucky to exceed 2Mbps on my line, despite by line having since worked fine at around 14Mbps with BE.
Having said that, Virgin cable has been great so far.
I will say, Virgin National may have improved, but back when I used it, well, it was quite horribly slow. I would be lucky to exceed 2Mbps on my line, despite by line having since worked fine at around 14Mbps with BE.
Having said that, Virgin cable has been great so far.
Well, my 'improved' connection never exceeds 2.5Mbps. The VM cable service was always good for me to be fair.
When I was younger we'd use a couple of tin cans and a piece of taut string as a crude communications device. It was more effective than VM adsl :rolleyes:
Latest test: Overall Average Speed = approx 1720 Kbps, 1.68 Mbps
What's the actual sync speed on your connection, Kursk?
What's the actual sync speed on your connection, Kursk?
Downstream is 2854 Kbps;Upstream is 671 Kbps Chris.
Hmm, mind posting your ADSL router stats? They may help us find out what the actual issue is with your connection.
Downstream is 2854 Kbps;Upstream is 671 Kbps Chris.
Seeing up to 2.5Mb download speed is consistent with that downstream sync. That's not congestion, it's the physical limitations of the line between yourself and the exchange.
Do you have a rough idea of the distance to the exchange?
Seeing up to 2.5Mb download speed is consistent with that downstream sync. That's not congestion, it's the physical limitations of the line between yourself and the exchange.
Do you have a rough idea of the distance to the exchange?
Hmm yes.
Have you checked with the test socket yet?
Seeing up to 2.5Mb download speed is consistent with that downstream sync. That's not congestion, it's the physical limitations of the line between yourself and the exchange.
Do you have a rough idea of the distance to the exchange?
It's a mile or two away. The previous owner here told me he was getting over 6Mbps which is what I estimate I was getting before the BT engineer came and changed my line (I switched my phone from BT to VM). He remarked as he was leaving "not sure how the changes I've made will affect your internet connection".
Hmm yes.
Have you checked with the test socket yet?
Do you mean removing the faceplate of the main socket and plugging in behind? If so, I can't find a main socket here. The previous owner used the socket I'm using (he also ran an ethernet cable into the adjacent room) so the socket should be ok?
At a mile or two distant, you should be doing rather better than you are. Exactly what did the BT Openreach tech do at your house? There is now a physical problem with your line somewhere between your phone socket and the telephone exchange, which you need to try to track down.
Finding the master socket and connecting via the test socket behind the faceplate would be a good start.
One thing, keep in mind that the sync speed being low doesn't confirm that your line is poor, as it is essentially set by Virgin.
For example, with Sky broadband if your router reboots it's often interpreted as a line failure, leading to your sync speed being lowered (mine was as low as 3Mbps at one point).
Finding the master socket and connecting via the test socket behind the faceplate would be a good start.
Seconded. If you're not sure where the master socket is, it's normally the first one closest to where the phone line enters the house.
The sync speed is not set by Virgin. It is negotiated between the router and the equipment at the telephone exchange. Repeated router re-boots can fritz the process by making it look like there's a line fault, resulting in a lower sync speed, but if that had occurred it would only take a few days of *not* rebooting the router for the sync speed to climb back up again.
In the absence of any other information, it seems that Kursk's sync speed appears quite happy and stable at 2854, which suggests the rate-adaptive ADSL has done exactly what it's supposed to do and has established the fastest stable speed for the line.
Improving that speed any further will require the imperfections in the line, wherever they are, to be found and addressed.
Just unscrewed every socket and they all look the same. There is no split socket and when you lift the faceplate all the wires come with it in all cases.
When the BT Openreach bloke came he said he would connect my phone. I said the internet is already working but I'm not able to ring people. He said the internet couldn't be working. It was. He said I am changing your telephone number, I'll be back in half an hour. He did, he was and now my connection is knackered.
My understanding of the telephone network is rather shaky on this point, but I suspect the tech may have moved you onto a different physical line ... presumably from one that was in good shape to one that was not.
Regarding the master socket, where does your telephone line enter the house? The nearest socket to that point ought to be the master.
My understanding of the telephone network is rather shaky on this point, but I suspect the tech may have moved you onto a different physical line ... presumably from one that was in good shape to one that was not.
Regarding the master socket, where does your telephone line enter the house? The nearest socket to that point ought to be the master.
That's what I'm thinking too although my understanding is as shaky as yours on this point. Certainly, things were ok before he changed my number. I have the same router, same filter, same phone, same computer, same carpet and wallpaper :D. The only difference was his tinkering. When I ask BT about it, they say VM is your provider, contact them.
The telephone wire comes in at the rear of the house. The nearest socket and the first socket the cable reaches looks no different to all the others and there is nothing under the faceplate that isn't under all the others. When it's unscrewed it just lifts all the internal wires with it - there's no hidden socket to plug into :confused:.
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