View Full Version : Westminster Cable TV closing but what about the hidden telephone service?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/videotron-to-launch-phone-service-1429046.html
According to that which dates back to 1994, Videotron which then became Cable and Wireless covered Westminster as a telephone only franchise due to BT's Westminster Cable company already holding a licence to provide Cable Television in the borough.
It was planned to launch high speed internet and IPTV services over it.
All this came to a halt when NTL took over the management of the BT Cable franchise because of the terms and conditions which BT set out and restricted NTL from taking on any new customers.
Therefore with the closure of the Analogue FM and TV network currently leased by Virgin Media, could this mean it will return?
Obviously it is still there so it could be possible for Virgin Media to use it and provide:
Telephone Service
ADSL Broadband,Dial Up Internet ect...
TV on demand/IPTV services similar to BT Vision
This could be an answer to residents problems in getting a new TV service provider and an answer to better choice in telecoms services.
The reason probably why NTL didn't use it in the first place was because they already acquired the runnings of Westminster Cable and NTL hadn't taken over Cable and Wireless at the time.
Ignitionnet
27-10-2011, 00:17
Virgin already can offer telephone and ADSL via their deal with Cable and Wireless to use their LLU network.
If VM so choose they can release IPTV services via this LLU network also.
Absolutely no point in resurrecting the old phone only network and doing this themselves when the necessary is already sitting in WRWMIN and definitely no point in doing it for this one small area.
It is still in use but not to residential customers,Videotron/NTL City and Westminster limited is the franchise trading name. Furthermore, it might be a long time before BT can upgrade its own network in that area, the conservation rules also block that too which is one of the reasons why it will be impossible to upgrade the Cable TV network.
Westminster is in fact a very large area especially when you add up all the residential properties and business properties.
The main problem there is the fact that after January, people are going to have a lot of problems viewing basic TV channels, as there isn't a lot of choice for residents.
In Holborn a town just over the Westminster border which is in the borough of Camden heavily depend on the ex-telewest Virgin Media service, the TV reception round there is horrific! Too many tall buildings in the way is the biggest cause.
Ignitionnet
27-10-2011, 22:39
They had no hesitation in switching off Isle of Dogs and have done nothing to replace it. Zero reason to think Westminster or any other area they've decommissioned will be different.
There's no money in delivering MATV, they're probably quite happy to be shot of it.
That was another odd thing, isle of dogs was covered by Encom then acquired by BellCable Media then Cable and Wireless and of course NTL. Wonder why they just pulled out of the area? Perhaps they'll return following new developments.
Man, I remember in the early days of this site and its predecessor there was endless moaning about lack of broadband in London...
In my area of London, the best is Virgin Media, BT Broadband round here gives you up to 6mb, BT infinity goes up to about 20mb and from what i've heard from the neighbours, BT broadband keeps going down and often you only get around 3mb at peak times. BT infinity can't even cover the whole borough because of certain conservation rules brought in recently.
Some people who have Sky Broadband, they tell me there connection keeps going off. Not many people have it round here for that reason, so near Westminster but not in Westminster, people are so lucky to have all 3 full services available from Virgin Media.
In Westminster there is a big problem with:
Getting TV Channels 1 to 5 because of tall buildings,local conservation rules and the digital switchover is round the corner so means even with an aerial you won't be able to get it anymore.
Freeview, the reception just aint good enough with a small indoor aerial.
Sky, no dishes allowed on many buildings and again tall buildings in the way can block the signal.
Broadband over 8MB, You will be lucky to get broadband up to 8mb on BT or any provider using a BT line, Colt and Cable and Wireless are popular for businesses round Westminster but are not interested in serving local residents. The best was Virgin Media over the Westminster cable network, but the cable network doesn't actually cover the whole borough! and it is closing.
It is very suprising that an area like this has so many problems with TV!
And conservation rules are a joke!
BT
Cable and Wireless (Mercury)
Cable and Wireless (Thus)
Cable and Wireless (Thus-Your Communications formerly Norweb)
Cable and Wireless (Energis)
NTL/Videotron City and Westminster
Verizon Business (MCI Worldcom)
infocus/Infolines Public Networks (IPM)
Colt Telecom
Spectrum Interactive(NWP Street)
UK power networks (Formerly EDF/London Electricity Board)
Thames Water Utilities
National Grid Gas
And many more
Are all licensed to dig up the streets as and when they like in the area, yet none of them can come up with solutions.
Ignitionnet
31-10-2011, 09:45
That was another odd thing, isle of dogs was covered by Encom then acquired by BellCable Media then Cable and Wireless and of course NTL. Wonder why they just pulled out of the area? Perhaps they'll return following new developments.
It wasn't financially viable to overbuild the area, network sucked too hard and they didn't consider the level of rebuild required an option.
---------- Post added at 09:45 ---------- Previous post was at 09:40 ----------
In my area of London, the best is Virgin Media, BT Broadband round here gives you up to 6mb, BT infinity goes up to about 20mb and from what i've heard from the neighbours, BT broadband keeps going down and often you only get around 3mb at peak times. BT infinity can't even cover the whole borough because of certain conservation rules brought in recently.
There are no 'conservation rules' brought in recently - BT and every other provider have always required planning permission to erect cabinets in conservation areas - their planning permission requests have been a regular feature of the planning lists in this borough.
I wonder if it is viable to just upgrade the whole cable system from Marylebone northwards to Queens park,South Kilburn,Maida Vale and then to paddington, because to me, that is no conservation area to look at and its mostly housing estates where people live who need a working tv service and reliable internet, round Mayfair,Park Lane,Soho ect... then it is expected to be turned down.
Ignitionnet
03-11-2011, 11:56
To be honest if it were viable they'd probably already have done it as part of an infill. Doing any significant civils in London is ridiculously expensive.
That's probably one for the New Build Co-ordinator of the forum.
Alan Fry
03-11-2011, 12:11
what is the point in living in wesminster
madmacfan10
07-11-2011, 22:08
I don't know the exact situation with the bt owned Westminster franchise, but I do know that Ntl, now Virgin media did not completely pull out of the Isle of Dogs, Ex bell cablemedia franchise, as they still offer a cable landline service to pre 2000 residents and local businesses over this network. I know this as I still to this day subscribe to a cable landline service from virgin media over this network. I originally had the cable landline service installed by Bell cablemedia back in 1994, and have been using this service ever since. Whether or not, virgin decides to keep the landline service going in the westminster franchise area remains to be seen, as they don't own the network there. But if they could resolve their disputes with bt (Highly unlikely) who knows what could happen.
I don't know the exact situation with the bt owned Westminster franchise, but I do know that Ntl, now Virgin media did not completely pull out of the Isle of Dogs, Ex bell cablemedia franchise, as they still offer a cable landline service to pre 2000 residents and local businesses over this network. I know this as I still to this day subscribe to a cable landline service from virgin media over this network. I originally had the cable landline service installed by Bell cablemedia back in 1994, and have been using this service ever since. Whether or not, virgin decides to keep the landline service going in the westminster franchise area remains to be seen, as they don't own the network there. But if they could resolve their disputes with bt (Highly unlikely) who knows what could happen.
Well because BT held the Cable Television licence for the City of Westminster and City of London boroughs(Not that Westminster Cable TV actually covered 100% of properties and streets across the 2 boroughs) It was not possible for Videotron or any other Cable company to obtain a licence for Cable Television, however it was still able to apply for a Telecommunications licence including the licence covering Electronic Communications Apparatus something that covers street cabinets and telephone boxes ect... Therefore, it constructed its telephone network across the boroughs Videotron City and Westminster limited later to be called NTL City and Westminster. The plan was to offer a competitive telephone service to BT and provide IPTV services something similar to what TalkTalk TV(Tiscali/Homechoice) offer today as well as Internet.
However, when NTL took over the BT Cable TV franchise, the deal was set by BT that NTL must not offer telephone services, at this time Cable and Wireless still owned the Videotron cable franchise and finally when NTL acquired Cable and Wireless cable franchises, it stopped taking on new customers.
So i've come to the conclusion that Virgin Media could use the ducts ect.... they own them so why not use them! to build a fibre optic network across the borough that could serve many businesses who are suffering with 6mb broadband from BT and provide Digital TV to the social housing (Citywest homes) and any properties that struggle to get a decent TV signal by either Freeview,Freesat or Sky. Many homes are not able to construct dishes and additional attenae that the council views as an eyesore from street level, properties around Mayfair and Marylebone would benefit from that.
You say that you are still using Virgin Media's home phone service, the reason why some old customers can use it is because local authorities and a small number of businesses still use the service too making it commercially viable to do, however as they need for broadband expands and increasing costs of maintaining the network, they will soon force you off by offering you a deal to use Virgin Media National.
Other reasons why they have kept it on maybe that Virgin Media once it has enough funds may look into reinstating the network in that area.
NTL explained that they pulled out of the Isle of Dogs because the network was in a bad state of disrepair and was costly to repair and were no longer able to provide a fault free service, why was it so bad! It was only built in 1993/4!
A reason for NTL's choice was at the time, they were in a financial mess. Originally, Cable and Wireless was aiming to take over Telewest around 1999/2000 but that fell through and Cable and Wireless decided to sell up to a borrowing NTL that didn't have enough funds. Therefore, if Cable and Wireless still owned the network, you probably wouldn't have that problem in that area.
Maybe the government needs to block virtually bankrupt companies from borrowing so much money and acquiring rivals when they clearly have no funds, as the first thing to go when this happens is peoples jobs and a dip in the quality of service to the public and slow development of technology, surely the government doesn't want that!
thenarth
01-03-2012, 10:40
I wonder if it is viable to just upgrade the whole cable system from Marylebone northwards to Queens park,South Kilburn,Maida Vale and then to paddington.
Across the road from my place (Shirland Road, Maida Vale) this morning, there are Virgin Media contractors (Virgin Media logo on the fenced off area) digging up the pavement and laying tracts of bright green ducting.
I asked one of the chaps if they were laying fibre optic cable, he said, yes, they were installing it for Virgin Media.
I'm not sure if this means that Virgin have decided to bite the bullet and install their own network in Westminster for consumers or if it is for some other reason.
Alan Fry
01-03-2012, 10:53
Across the road from my place (Shirland Road, Maida Vale) this morning, there are Virgin Media contractors (Virgin Media logo on the fenced off area) digging up the pavement and laying tracts of bright green ducting.
I asked one of the chaps if they were laying fibre optic cable, he said, yes, they were installing it for Virgin Media.
I'm not sure if this means that Virgin have decided to bite the bullet and install their own network in Westminster for consumers or if it is for some other reason.
Maybe VM has had enough of BT and is building their own system in a market that could be profitable for them!
Now can they do Milton Keynes, Barbican, Isle of Dogs and other gaps in the VM Cable Network!
thenarth
01-03-2012, 12:38
Maybe VM has had enough of BT and is building their own system in a market that could be profitable for them!
It may be coincidence, but our local exchange 'Lords' is being provisioned with BT Infinity in May, so it looks like VM may be trying to get in ahead of BT.
Alan Fry
01-03-2012, 13:06
It may be coincidence, but our local exchange 'Lords' is being provisioned with BT Infinity in May, so it looks like VM may be trying to get in ahead of BT.
Well that is a good thing, but BT plan to cover 75% of the UK, Virgin Media's Fiber Network, only covers 50%!
So Virgin have better get a move on!
Across the road from my place (Shirland Road, Maida Vale) this morning, there are Virgin Media contractors (Virgin Media logo on the fenced off area) digging up the pavement and laying tracts of bright green ducting.
I asked one of the chaps if they were laying fibre optic cable, he said, yes, they were installing it for Virgin Media.
I'm not sure if this means that Virgin have decided to bite the bullet and install their own network in Westminster for consumers or if it is for some other reason.
No, its for Virgin Media Business.
The BT cable network which Virgin Media leases officially should end today, however, Virgin Media is not responsible for any maintainance or upgrades on the network and Virgin Media does not have any other infrastructure apart from telephone lines and fibre which was brought forward from Videotron/Cable and Wireless.
Virgin Media Business is currently supplying particular services to Westminster City Council, the business phone service provided to the council is probably still Colt.
thenarth
01-03-2012, 16:35
No, its for Virgin Media Business.
The BT cable network which Virgin Media leases officially should end today, however, Virgin Media is not responsible for any maintainance or upgrades on the network and Virgin Media does not have any other infrastructure apart from telephone lines and fibre which was brought forward from Videotron/Cable and Wireless.
Virgin Media Business is currently supplying particular services to Westminster City Council, the business phone service provided to the council is probably still Colt.
That is a shame! Knowing that Virgin Media fibre goes right past my door and that I can't connect to it is a bit frustrating!
That is a shame! Knowing that Virgin Media fibre goes right past my door and that I can't connect to it is a bit frustrating!
I don't see why not when the lease of the BT Cable network ends, it will be like BT infinity if they did though because it was just built as a Telephone only franchise.
The Westminster Cable network is still up and running as of last week, and a rumour was that it is officially to close today, I will ask my friends if it has
Alan Fry
02-03-2012, 09:32
No, its for Virgin Media Business.
The BT cable network which Virgin Media leases officially should end today, however, Virgin Media is not responsible for any maintainance or upgrades on the network and Virgin Media does not have any other infrastructure apart from telephone lines and fibre which was brought forward from Videotron/Cable and Wireless.
Virgin Media Business is currently supplying particular services to Westminster City Council, the business phone service provided to the council is probably still Colt.
Can the lease be renewed, if not what will happen to the network?
Hello all,
I live in Westminster also a cable customer of Virgin, prior to that Westminster cable, my cable package was switched off on the 31st January.
I now only receive the basic 5 channels plus Itv2, however I still need to use my Virgin box to receive these.
I live in a block of flats and prior to getting cable tv I had a communal ariel. someone told me that at installation stage the engineers cut this.
I have looked in my cupboard where all the services come in and I cant find any trace of the ariel, today I paid £140 to the management company to install a new cable and to connect to freeview, does anyone know if I would be able to claim this cost back from Virgin.
Cheers Ian.
Hello all,
I live in Westminster also a cable customer of Virgin, prior to that Westminster cable, my cable package was switched off on the 31st January.
I now only receive the basic 5 channels plus Itv2, however I still need to use my Virgin box to receive these.
I live in a block of flats and prior to getting cable tv I had a communal ariel. someone told me that at installation stage the engineers cut this.
I have looked in my cupboard where all the services come in and I cant find any trace of the ariel, today I paid £140 to the management company to install a new cable and to connect to freeview, does anyone know if I would be able to claim this cost back from Virgin.
Cheers Ian.
No there not meant to touch the Cable socket or its cabling!
Secondly, the service is still, I know someone who still had broadband still running and are currently still paying for it.
You won't be able to claim that £140 back.
Your landlord/City West homes should be installing that for you and then you pay something like 87p per week in your rent/service charges. If you are a leaseholder then it will be in your building service charges, on my bill it comes up as 'TV Reception'.
Contact your landlord or estate manager for further information.
They have no business to cut any of BT/Virgin Media cables
---------- Post added at 22:22 ---------- Previous post was at 22:14 ----------
Can the lease be renewed, if not what will happen to the network?
Nothing!
They wouldn't want to, but they can if they wanted to.
Hello m419, I am sorry I have maybe confused you with my post it was the cable engineers who cut my communal ariel when they installed it. My cable package has definitely been switched off although the box still works for the basics.
I am a leaseholder with City West homes and it was they who charged me £140 for an aerial connection with freeview, they never mentiond weekly charges, however I assume that they will run a new aerial cable from the roof to my lower ground floor flat through existing conduits. I must check my building maitenace bills and see if they have been charging me for this.
Thanks for the reply and also the info.
Cheers Ian
Hello m419, I am sorry I have maybe confused you with my post it was the cable engineers who cut my communal ariel when they installed it. My cable package has definitely been switched off although the box still works for the basics.
I am a leaseholder with City West homes and it was they who charged me £140 for an aerial connection with freeview, they never mentiond weekly charges, however I assume that they will run a new aerial cable from the roof to my lower ground floor flat through existing conduits. I must check my building maitenace bills and see if they have been charging me for this.
Thanks for the reply and also the info.
Cheers Ian
I live in Camden housing, that is what they have done here, they have installed an IRS system, suitable for Freeview,Freesat and Sky. It is terrible everyone complains that it keeps going down and i'm paying for it each week and don't need it.
I dont think Westminster has gone that far, they are only offering an ariel connection with freeview, I dont know how this works as I thought if you have an ariel you would get freeview automatically. I have also just bought a Bt vision box but cant use it until I get my connection.
paulsouth
03-03-2012, 12:54
I dont think Westminster has gone that far, they are only offering an ariel connection with freeview, I dont know how this works as I thought if you have an ariel you would get freeview automatically. I have also just bought a Bt vision box but cant use it until I get my connection.
it least on bt vision u can have sky sports 1 and 2 and espn
I dont think Westminster has gone that far, they are only offering an ariel connection with freeview, I dont know how this works as I thought if you have an ariel you would get freeview automatically. I have also just bought a Bt vision box but cant use it until I get my connection.
No most councils have installed a combined dish and aerial and the socket has four pins, one for TV-Freeview and Analogue freeview,one for FM Radio and 2 for satellite TV.
On BT Vision you will be able to get Freeview,Sky Sports 1 and 2,ESPN,Picturebox and other on-demand content.
You haven't been able to get Sky Sports on Westminster Cable since 2009 and Sky Movies since 2008 and no Front Row/Filmflex since 2006.
By the way if you require JSTV channel, which was on Westminster Cable TV until closure for £6 per month, it is not available on any other service in the UK including Sky.
I did have sky sports until the 31st January, the reason I got Bt vision is to be able to receive Sky sports 1 +2. I will have to wait to see what other things come through the ariel.
Thanks for your replies.
I did have sky sports until the 31st January, the reason I got Bt vision is to be able to receive Sky sports 1 +2. I will have to wait to see what other things come through the ariel.
Thanks for your replies.
They had Sky sports on Analogue? They took that off my mate back in 2009 saying it was no longer available and after that it was just audio but no picture
Yeah or you could use topupTV as well to get a similar but digital version of Westminster Cable, it runs through freeview but you get a viewing card to view the pay-tv channels
They had Sky sports on Analogue? They took that off my mate back in 2009 saying it was no longer available and after that it was just audio but no picture
Yeah or you could use topupTV as well to get a similar but digital version of Westminster Cable, it runs through freeview but you get a viewing card to view the pay-tv channels
Yes I did have sports on analogue. I am also still receiving bills and although they switched off on the 31st January they have billed me until the 15th february, no intention of replying, let them sort it out, but I wonder how many other's have been billed in full, do you think I should start a new thread on this?.
Yes I did have sports on analogue. I am also still receiving bills and although they switched off on the 31st January they have billed me until the 15th february, no intention of replying, let them sort it out, but I wonder how many other's have been billed in full, do you think I should start a new thread on this?.
No not really, what you need to do is call them up and request a refund if you did not recieve more than what you usually get.
It costs £4 per month to recieve BBC1,BBC2,ITV1,Channel 4,Channel 5 and ITV2 without a set top box.
If you have paid more than that for channels which you didn't recieve after 31st January like premium channels such as JSTV and Sky Sports then you are entitled to a refund, people are being billed because some people are still getting services.
So if you have free calls to 0845 numbers call 0845-454-1111, if you don't then ring the cancellations on the 0800 number given on the letter you recieved about the closure.
Hope that helps.
I must add, you were supposed to cancel it yourself by the 31st January, it has been left on for a bit, because some people are having problems finding alternative providers as certain buildings are not allowed to have dishes and aerials.
If you are having difficulties paying or if you are on a low income and cannot afford to pay £140 to City West homes, I would advise that you contact them and make some kind of arrangement to pay in installments. Not everybody can afford that and it isn't primarily your fault, therefore you should get some help with it from CityWest homes as it is them that instructed the GPO(BT) to provide that cable service and ban people from putting up aerials and dishes.
Also some people may have problems with reception as well because there are a lot of obstructions in the area as well.
BT commercialised the service and by 2000, NTL took over the customer base and charged £3.50 for the very standard service, this slowly crept up to £4 over the years.
Many people don't pay that as they simply plug the TV into the socket and pick up basic channels.
You are just one of many people stuck in the BT vs Virgin Media with a unco-operating local council fiasco, Milton Keynes has the same problem. Oddly Westminster City Council said it has never had any involvement with Westminster Cable/BT or NTL(Virgin Media) over the management or running of the service or agreements.
paulsouth
04-03-2012, 15:29
No most councils have installed a combined dish and aerial and the socket has four pins, one for TV-Freeview and Analogue freeview,one for FM Radio and 2 for satellite TV.
On BT Vision you will be able to get Freeview,Sky Sports 1 and 2,ESPN,Picturebox and other on-demand content.
You haven't been able to get Sky Sports on Westminster Cable since 2009 and Sky Movies since 2008 and no Front Row/Filmflex since 2006.
By the way if you require JSTV channel, which was on Westminster Cable TV until closure for £6 per month, it is not available on any other service in the UK including Sky.
sky analogue had that years ago.. that was a good channel..jstv
---------- Post added at 15:29 ---------- Previous post was at 15:26 ----------
I must add, you were supposed to cancel it yourself by the 31st January, it has been left on for a bit, because some people are having problems finding alternative providers as certain buildings are not allowed to have dishes and aerials.
If you are having difficulties paying or if you are on a low income and cannot afford to pay £140 to City West homes, I would advise that you contact them and make some kind of arrangement to pay in installments. Not everybody can afford that and it isn't primarily your fault, therefore you should get some help with it from CityWest homes as it is them that instructed the GPO(BT) to provide that cable service and ban people from putting up aerials and dishes.
Also some people may have problems with reception as well because there are a lot of obstructions in the area as well.
BT commercialised the service and by 2000, NTL took over the customer base and charged £3.50 for the very standard service, this slowly crept up to £4 over the years.
Many people don't pay that as they simply plug the TV into the socket and pick up basic channels.
You are just one of many people stuck in the BT vs Virgin Media with a unco-operating local council fiasco, Milton Keynes has the same problem. Oddly Westminster City Council said it has never had any involvement with Westminster Cable/BT or NTL(Virgin Media) over the management or running of the service or agreements.
wat was west minister cable tv like wen i was running properly?
what channels was on there?
sky analogue had that years ago.. that was a good channel..jstv
---------- Post added at 15:29 ---------- Previous post was at 15:26 ----------
wat was west minister cable tv like wen i was running properly?
what channels was on there?
JSTV was Japanese Satellite TV
When Westminster Cable TV was running a full service in the mid 90's offered the full range of TV channels:
BBC1
BBC2
ITV
Channel 4
Channel 5 (From 1996)
ITV2 (From 1998)
The Parliamentary Channel (BBC Parliament)
BBC News 24
UK Gold
UK Horizons (From 1998)
Discovery Channel/Discovery Home and Lesiure (Timeshift)
Nickelodeon/Paramount Comedy Channel (Timeshift)
Granada plus/Granada Men and Motors (Timeshift) closed 2004
CNN
Live TV (Closed 1999)
JSTV(Premium Channel)
RTL+
Rai-Uno
TV5
Sci-fi
Sky1
Sky2(Until 1997)
National Graphic
Challenge TV/TV Travel Shop (Timeshift) Closed 2004
MTV
Travel Channel/Bloomberg (Timeshift) Removed many years ago
Performance Channel (Removed 2008 after channel ceased)
VH1
The Box (4 Music) (replaced with The Hit's later renamed 4Music)
Sky Sports 1 (Premium)
Sky Sports 2 (Premium)
Sky Sports 3 (Premium)
Sky Movies Premier (Removed for incompatibility reasons)2008 (Premium)
Sky Movies Max (Removed for incompatibility reasons)2008 (Premium)
Sky Movies Cinema (Removed for incompatibility reasons)2008 (Premium)
Movies 24 (Introduced as a bad replacement for Sky Movies)
Film4 (From 1998 after Channel One news closed) Premium until 2006
Channel One News (London Cable news channel until 1998)
Carlton Food Network/Carlton Select (Timeshift)
Zee TV (Premium)
Sony Entertainment Asia (Premium)
Living TV (Timeshift)
Bravo (timeshift)
Television X (Premium)
Playboy (Premium)
Adult Channel (Premium)
History Channel (Timeshift) 4pm to 8pm
Virgin 1/Channel One until closure
TNT(TCM)/Cartoon Network (Timeshift)
Fox Kids (until closure)
Disney Channel (Premium until 2006)
Hallmark/Universal (Removed recently ITV2 has replaced it)
So you could get a wide range of channels,most were timeshift.
Many were removed by NTL and some were withdrawn for operational reasons whilst others like Sky Movies were no longer compatible, Sky introduced a watershed pin protection system which is only compatible with Digital TV.
NTL took over in early January 2000, in 2003 it rolled out Broadband in some parts and in 2005, pulled out of Barbican completely.
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