View Full Version : VM Community board replies now a week in arrears
kwikbreaks
17-10-2011, 13:55
As title. Today (17th) the VM techs are responding to posts with a last update made on 10th.
There was me thinking the eventual fix to the Superhub would cut the volume of posts and lead to a more reasonable response time. Looks like they just cut resource instead. Right now it's even slower than my 50Mbps connection.
Chrysalis
18-10-2011, 03:20
I get the impression they deliberatly make it slow so people are encouraged to use the call centres instead. Its not as if they having to deal with 100s of queries a day, they do a few dozen at the most.
Although I wasnt waiting a week for support given to me lately by PM (regarding superhub firmware).
Welshchris
18-10-2011, 05:27
They dont even bother at times replying to some posts.
Maybe they should make an unmoderated moaning forum so actual faults can be found easily
It does say this at the top of the first page of the Community forum.
Welcome to our Help & Support forum. This is where you can get help from our forum community, share your experiences and your own answers.
This forum is for community based support. If you’ve got a problem with one of our services and need to talk to us directly or it's an urgent problem, please contact us (http://www.virginmedia.com/contact).
The threads are answered oldest first but if you or anyone else posts in that thread it is automatically pushed to the back of the queue.
If you look for a forum team member and check out the dates they are working on at that time it will give an indication of what wait to expect.
The threads are answered oldest first but if you or anyone else posts in that thread it is automatically pushed to the back of the queue.
What an idiotic way to run a forum.
kwikbreaks
18-10-2011, 09:14
It makes sense as it's basically a support forum so if they worked top down somebody continually bumping their thread would get first bite.
The reason I find the 7 day delay strange is because a few weeks back they were working on stuff 3 or 4 days old and now that has stretched out to a week yet there must be less posts on the 30Mbps and up boards now the Superhub is more or less sorted.
I prefer to get my own issues handled by somebody who has a clue rather than front end support who frequently don't so I use the forum rather than the phone. I don't have a VM phone as it's not competitive on pricing so while I'm on 50Mbps I could use the 0800 number but as I'm likely to be downgrading to 10 Mbps as that's all I can get anyway most of the time these days it would be an 0845 call or more likely several until I chanced on a support tech who a) was any use and b) gave a ****.
But only 1meg upstream is poor
kwikbreaks
18-10-2011, 09:38
But only 1meg upstream is poor
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2011/10/30.jpg
Que?
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2011/10/30.jpg
Que?
I'm likely to be downgrading to 10 Mbps as that's all I can get anyway most of the time these
What an idiotic way to run a forum.
They are the rules as laid down by Virgin Media, it is primarily a self help forum but if you do not get an answer from the other members and it is something that 2nd line need to investigate then after a few days which depending on how busy they are or the team get to read the post, but if you bump the thread it by default goes back down the list as the team do not have time to search for issues.
Also anything that requires you to clear DPA such as an account issue, password reset or many of the other type of issues that cannot be dealt with on the forum you will be advised to call the appropriate department.
Many people seem to think that the are not many posts for the forum team to answer but if you login in and mark all as read at midnight and then login the following midnight the is a quite a lot of new threads and questions and answers posted in that timescale and that is pretty much an average day so the team will be quite a few days behind.
Also if you see a thread with a similar issue do not think to post in that thread as it puts the original OP back down the queue always start your own thread.
As a self help forum with the back up of the forum team for more in-depth issues how else could it be ran.
It makes sense as it's basically a support forum so if they worked top down somebody continually bumping their thread would get first bite.
.
It makes no sense whatsoever. If they want to operate a queue system they should be dealing with the threads by OP date, not the length of time they've been dead.
It makes no sense whatsoever. If they want to operate a queue system they should be dealing with the threads by OP date, not the length of time they've been dead.
They could answer all fresh queries but what happens to the person who posted a few days back, the only way to work it is by date and in reverse order otherwise it would not be fair.
They are the rules as laid down by Virgin Media
And they are idiotic rules. Honestly, it was clear to see back in the NTHellworld.com days, and the company's first, aborted attempt to start a Community forum, that the business culture just didn't understand how forums work, but here we are almost a decade later and they clearly still don't have a clue.
As a self help forum with the back up of the forum team for more in-depth issues how else could it be ran.
It should be run by dealing with problems by original posting date, not the length of time the thread has gone quiet.
Has it not occurred to anybody that as this stupid rule becomes more widely known, it will only be a matter of time before some wag decides the best way to get his problem to the top of the pile is to post in other people's threads purely to shove them to the back of the queue?
Dealing with problems in the way you have described really gets to the fundamental problem at the heart of Virgin Media's business culture - actually reaching out and helping customers is the act of last resort, where it should be the first.
---------- Post added at 10:04 ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 ----------
They could answer all fresh queries but what happens to the person who posted a few days back, the only way to work it is by date and in reverse order otherwise it would not be fair.
I said nothing about fresh queries, I said 'by OP date'. Dealing with the threads posted first is an obvious, fair way to handle issues. Dealing with the threads that have been dead the longest is not.
I said nothing about fresh queries, I said 'by OP date'. Dealing with the threads posted first is an obvious, fair way to handle issues. Dealing with the threads that have been dead the longest is not.Except the idea of the forum is that it's supposed to be community support first and that the forum team pick up those threads that haven't had a response or reply.
If you get the agents to check every thread irrespective of whether it's been answered or not to see if there has been a resolution then the response times will get longer as the forum team would basically have to read everything anyone posts to check whether things are resolved or not
The forum is not and was never set up to be a first line support channel. That is the phone/Contact Us and the new automated diagnostics available via the phone and website
Which merely begs questions about the level of resource the business allocates to customer care. If there aren't enough people to do the job properly, then they're not doing the job properly. It's not rocket science. ;)
The problem with 'community support' is that it is by no means guaranteed that any particular reply to a problem is going to be helpful. Checking only as far as a thread's last posting date - and setting this as a business-as-usual process in the handling of online support - is ham-fisted at best and at worst, shocking in depth of incompetence for a company that makes so much of its revenue out of the interwebs.
Whoever set this policy quite obviously does not understand how internet forums work.
Except the idea of the forum is that it's supposed to be community support first and that the forum team pick up those threads that haven't had a response or reply.
If you get the agents to check every thread irrespective of whether it's been answered or not to see if there has been a resolution then the response times will get longer as the forum team would basically have to read everything anyone posts to check whether things are resolved or not
The forum is not and was never set up to be a first line support channel. That is the phone/Contact Us and the new automated diagnostics available via the phone and website
I said nothing about fresh queries, I said 'by OP date'. Dealing with the threads posted first is an obvious, fair way to handle issues. Dealing with the threads that have been dead the longest is not.
The reasons are exactly as Ben set out above because it is Primarily A Self Help Forum not a First Line Support Forum so they work to rules laid down by Virgin Media, if you want a quicker response use the IVR or speak to a First Line agent, but remember any response by the Forum Team is from a 2nd line Agent with access to more tools than any First Line Agent.
... and the reasons why those reasons are both bogus and sad are exactly as I set out above. ;)
kwikbreaks
18-10-2011, 10:16
I said nothing about fresh queries, I said 'by OP date'. Dealing with the threads posted first is an obvious, fair way to handle issues. Dealing with the threads that have been dead the longest is not.
That's probably the only option available in the forum software - specifying decent software is hardly VM's strong point either as evidenced by their My VM backup and Superhub offerings.
Many of the threads have more than one tech intervention - often the first one is to ask for more info by PM and that puts you to the back again. Their wonderful forum software only records the latest IP used by the poster so if you post a problem from home then check from work they can't identify the account unless you used the VM email to register.
Which merely begs questions about the level of resource the business allocates to customer care. If there aren't enough people to do the job properly, then they're not doing the job properly. It's not rocket science. ;)
The problem with 'community support' is that it is by no means guaranteed that any particular reply to a problem is going to be helpful. Checking only as far as a thread's last posting date - and setting this as a business-as-usual process in the handling of online support - is ham-fisted at best and at worst, shocking in depth of incompetence for a company that makes so much of its revenue out of the interwebs.
Whoever set this policy quite obviously does not understand how internet forums work.
To do it as a type of First Line Forum you would have to make the forum completely private and you would be answered individually but even they would end up in a queue as the oldest would still be answered first and this is gets away from the community type forum they want as many issues can be answered by other members as is the case here.
My betting is that they can only view by oldest date and not original posting date anyway.
That may well be true - it may be true here as well, to be honest I don't know off the top of my head and I've never needed to find out.
However, that's not the point. For a community support forum to work properly it needs a set of well-informed eyes to actually read the boards and identify the issues, not simply scan down the last-post dates and assume the oldest threads are the priorities.
As I said, it is a matter of concern that a company whose business is in this very area is neither devoting sufficient resource, nor sufficiently forum-savvy resource, to it.
kwikbreaks
18-10-2011, 10:23
I'm likely to be downgrading to 10 Mbps as that's all I can get anyway most of the time these
Unless there is some reasonable response to the post I'm waiting on ...
http://www.musicfreeks.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/SNAP.gif
IMO if more people just downgraded if they can't deliver the contracted product then VM might extract its corporate finger from its corporate butt and only sell what it can actually supply.
To do it as a type of First Line Forum you would have to make the forum completely private and you would be answered individually but even they would end up in a queue as the oldest would still be answered first and this is gets away from the community type forum they want as many issues can be answered by other members as is the case here.
Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. ;) I'm not proposing that they go all-out and make it a primary first-line support service. Clearly most people want to talk to a human on the phone (preferably in Liverpool, Swansea or Bellshill as opposed to Bombay, Bangalore or Delhi, but you can't have everything you want).
But where people do choose to post for help on a community forum, Virgin Media needs to make an intelligent assessment of the level of help those customers are actually getting. That means a qualitative assessment of the other posts in the oldest threads, not merely scanning last post dates and assuming that the priority issues are all to be found in the threads that have been dormant the longest.
not simply scan down the last-post dates and assume the oldest threads are the priorities.
As I said, it is a matter of concern that a company whose business is in this very area is neither devoting sufficient resource, nor sufficiently forum-savvy resource, to it.How do you know that's the only criteria they use?
That's the only criterion that's been mentioned by either of the VM staffers posting in this discussion over the last 90 minutes. If there were others, it's not unreasonable to expect them to have perhaps been hinted at by now ...
kwikbreaks
18-10-2011, 10:28
For a community support forum to work properly it needs a set of well-informed eyes to actually read the boards and identify the issues, not simply scan down the last-post dates and assume the oldest threads are the priorities.I imagine the second level techs have some sort of software filter that presents the posts to them in a workable sequence - it's just that you disagree with what that sequence should be.
Given the option between a second level tech response and being told to clear my browser cache by first level I'd rather wait on second level regardless of how poorly managed that forum may be.
That's the only criterion that's been mentioned by either of the VM staffers posting in this discussion over the last 90 minutes. If there were others, it's not unreasonable to expect them to have perhaps been hinted at by now ...I haven't discussed the criteria anywhere as far as I'm aware.
All I said was:
Except the idea of the forum is that it's supposed to be community support first and that the forum team pick up those threads that haven't had a response or reply
But it's quite obvious from these threads
http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Telephone/My-phoneline-is-down-from-Thursday-13th-Oct-evening/m-p/786013
http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/TV/Help-with-missing-HD-channels/td-p/774607
That 'oldest only' isn't the only criteria used nor are they a week behind on responding to posts
kwikbreaks
18-10-2011, 11:02
...nor are they a week behind on responding to postsThey are in the "Up to 30Mb and 50Mb broadband" section. It looks like there are less than a page of new threads a day in the phone section. There are shedloads in the broadband sections.
But where people do choose to post for help on a community forum, Virgin Media needs to make an intelligent assessment of the level of help those customers are actually getting. That means a qualitative assessment of the other posts in the oldest threads, not merely scanning last post dates and assuming that the priority issues are all to be found in the threads that have been dormant the longest.
I do know what you mean but the has to be a certain criteria used and Virgin Media have decided that the forum team members only answer from the oldest first as apart from Outages not every fault will be obvious and the easier ones such as we get on here will be answered by other members which is the what they want from the forum.
Also I wonder what will happen to the Community forum once they close the Albert Dock as that is were Virgin Media's 2nd line is based and they are included in the closure so possibly in 6 months this thread will have been of little consequence.
I have actually sat with one of the Forum Team and he did explain how it works and why and that has more or less been covered in quite a few of the preceding posts.
---------- Post added at 12:31 ---------- Previous post was at 12:28 ----------
They are in the "Up to 30Mb and 50Mb broadband" section. It looks like there are less than a page of new threads a day in the phone section. There are shedloads in the broadband sections.
The threads are given to various agents to work on and the is always a shorter queue in the DTV and Telco sections hence they get answered in a shorter SLA quite often within the hour or at the very least within a few hours depending on time of day.
Chrysalis
18-10-2011, 13:42
They could answer all fresh queries but what happens to the person who posted a few days back, the only way to work it is by date and in reverse order otherwise it would not be fair.
Chris is right on this. It is a stupid system.
Basically I would have someones job to sort out the actual customer queries from the moaning threads.
Then the query threads get passed onto support staff pre filtered.
After that as Chris said they use the OP posting date, they could probably also automate that with a bit of coding as well so to staff it shows the OP date automatically without manual work.
The volume of actual support queries really is quite low for what seems to be 4 or 5 VM staff on there. 95% (at least) of the forum is discussions and moaning rather than support queries.
kwikbreaks
18-10-2011, 13:58
Also I wonder what will happen to the Community forum once they close the Albert Dock as that is were Virgin Media's 2nd line is based and they are included in the closure so possibly in 6 months this thread will have been of little consequence.
IMO VM will still need a UK based 2nd level of TS. If they don't retain that then I predict that churn will become huge. As Infinity rolls out VM will no longer be able to keep BT phoneline based broadband on the back foot. At least one regular here has ditched cable for Infinity already.
They also still need to keep the community forum going. I've seen scores of posts where people say phoning support is pretty much pointless. I wouldn't know as I've only needed support when the connection itself has gone wrong and I've always used the forum for that as the alternative doesn't sound an attractive proposition.
---------- Post added at 13:58 ---------- Previous post was at 13:52 ----------
The volume of actual support queries really is quite low for what seems to be 4 or 5 VM staff on there. 95% (at least) of the forum is discussions and moaning rather than support queries.I think most of the techs responding to issues on the forum only do so part time. If you look at the responses they come in batches. I reckon 2nd level draw lots and the loser has to spend an hour or so on the community board.
Chrysalis
18-10-2011, 14:19
IMO VM will still need a UK based 2nd level of TS. If they don't retain that then I predict that churn will become huge. As Infinity rolls out VM will no longer be able to keep BT phoneline based broadband on the back foot. At least one regular here has ditched cable for Infinity already.
They also still need to keep the community forum going. I've seen scores of posts where people say phoning support is pretty much pointless. I wouldn't know as I've only needed support when the connection itself has gone wrong and I've always used the forum for that as the alternative doesn't sound an attractive proposition.
---------- Post added at 13:58 ---------- Previous post was at 13:52 ----------
I think most of the techs responding to issues on the forum only do so part time. If you look at the responses they come in batches. I reckon 2nd level draw lots and the loser has to spend an hour or so on the community board.
Agreed, I said this a while back, it looks clear the staff arent full time on the forums, they probably do 7 hours or so on the phones then an hour each day on the forum. Then as you said maybe the time on the forum got cut or the number of staff did.
What masque said is scary, about the closure of that call centre and where these staff are based. Dont we all wish they close one in india instead. I guess closing the forum for VM if it does happen wouldnt be too surprising as its hardly a selling point for VM, the forum is flooded with overutilisation complaints with the majority of them been told they within VM specs and the remaining have to wait for 6 months for a fix.
ShadowTD
18-10-2011, 15:29
The thing that everyone seems to have forgotten is the Community forums were *supposed* to be a replacement for the newsgroups, where you could get a response from a NTL/VM staffer in a couple of hours - usually a day max. Quite a few people suggested that the quality and speed of responses would go downhill and it was suggested that we 'give VM a chance'. Well, we have done.
I'm not grumbling too much. I very rarely post in there and at least it got me on the R30 trial.
The thing that everyone seems to have forgotten is the Community forums were *supposed* to be a replacement for the newsgroups, where you could get a response from a NTL/VM staffer in a couple of hours - usually a day max. Quite a few people suggested that the quality and speed of responses would go downhill and it was suggested that we 'give VM a chance'. Well, we have done.The newsgroups were mostly visited by quite a small regular set of customers. The forums have significantly more traffic from a much wider set of Virgin's customer base so it was never going to be exactly the same
kwikbreaks
18-10-2011, 16:24
I thought a 3 day turnaround was fine as if anything is truly urgent the phone option is still there. If the current 7 days continues though the forum is starting to look more just like a place to have a moan than somewhere to get some useful support.
Milambar
18-10-2011, 16:26
The thing that everyone seems to have forgotten is the Community forums were *supposed* to be a replacement for the newsgroups, where you could get a response from a NTL/VM staffer in a couple of hours - usually a day max. Quite a few people suggested that the quality and speed of responses would go downhill and it was suggested that we 'give VM a chance'. Well, we have done.
I'm not grumbling too much. I very rarely post in there and at least it got me on the R30 trial.
The NG's responded to genuine problems in minutes usually. They were very impressive, and in the past, identified problems and arranged for fixes that the telephone support denied existed.
I personally discovered them during the period when Virgin decided to run a chargable premium rate phoneline for technical support.
Digital Fanatic
18-10-2011, 18:14
The NG's responded to genuine problems in minutes usually. They were very impressive, and in the past, identified problems and arranged for fixes that the telephone support denied existed.
I personally discovered them during the period when Virgin decided to run a chargable premium rate phoneline for technical support.
The newsgroups had a dedicated E-Contact team in Albert Dock, Liverpool, but were made redundant a few years ago now. When the forums came about it was later decided to have some support from 2nd line teams, again in Albert Dock. These jobs are now at risk of redundancy at the moment due to the office closing, so what will happen after they go we don't currently know, but I'm sure they will be manned by another team somewhere.... Swansea?
kwikbreaks
18-10-2011, 18:16
Current responses are to posts from 10/10 so it's actually 8 days in arrears :shocked:
Digital Fanatic
18-10-2011, 18:22
Current responses are to posts from 10/10 so it's actually 8 days in arrears :shocked:
There is no SLA on the forum, so they are not technically in "arrears" ;)
Chrysalis
18-10-2011, 19:03
The newsgroups had a dedicated E-Contact team in Albert Dock, Liverpool, but were made redundant a few years ago now. When the forums came about it was later decided to have some support from 2nd line teams, again in Albert Dock. These jobs are now at risk of redundancy at the moment due to the office closing, so what will happen after they go we don't currently know, but I'm sure they will be manned by another team somewhere.... Swansea?
Why do VM deprioritise the best support?
The newsgroup team had a very good reputation so making them redundent clearly a sign that cost becomes quality, and if they do the same with the forum although it isnt perfect it beats phone support.
kwikbreaks
18-10-2011, 19:17
There is no SLA on the forum, so they are not technically in "arrears" ;)Thank you for that extremely useful contribution. I shall bear it in mind. Have you ever considered going into manufacturing? Chocolate fire-guards should suit your talents perfectly.
Digital Fanatic
18-10-2011, 19:32
Thank you for that extremely useful contribution. I shall bear it in mind. Have you ever considered going into manufacturing? Chocolate fire-guards should suit your talents perfectly.
It's the truth though, whether you like it or not. :shrug:
kwikbreaks
18-10-2011, 20:10
I'd like to see where I ever suggested otherwise. You VM guys seem very keen to jump on the customer if they have the temerity to say anything remotely negative about VM.
Forum turn-around used to be 3-4 days now it looks like it's over a week. That is a simple fact even if you don't like it. I suspect it may well be because it was all hands to the phones over the weekend when VM had yet another major routing problem. Alternately it may just be that those who can get jobs elsewhere are jumping ship before the doubtless mass layoffs. It could be any one of dozens of reasons none of which reflect well on VM and speculation is pointless but it's still a fact and it does impact some customers so it's worthy of sensible discussion rather than pedantic twaddle based on my choice of words.
Digital Fanatic
18-10-2011, 21:09
I'd like to see where I ever suggested otherwise. You VM guys seem very keen to jump on the customer if they have the temerity to say anything remotely negative about VM.
Forum turn-around used to be 3-4 days now it looks like it's over a week. That is a simple fact even if you don't like it. I suspect it may well be because it was all hands to the phones over the weekend when VM had yet another major routing problem. Alternately it may just be that those who can get jobs elsewhere are jumping ship before the doubtless mass layoffs. It could be any one of dozens of reasons none of which reflect well on VM and speculation is pointless but it's still a fact and it does impact some customers so it's worthy of sensible discussion rather than pedantic twaddle based on my choice of words.
I wasn't jumping on you at all, I simply made a comment. I'm actually one of the staff under threat of redundancy, helping customers on here and other forums still.
kwikbreaks
18-10-2011, 21:39
I'm sorry to hear that. Redundancy with the economy in the state it is can't be a very pleasant prospect. I wish you and any other VM folks in the same position all the best for your futures.
Redundancy isn't the end of the world. I was made redundant from a well paid support role in 1995 and things looked bleak. I decided to take the contracting route instead of working as an employee. I haven't been out of work since.
Digital Fanatic
18-10-2011, 21:59
I'm sorry to hear that. Redundancy with the economy in the state it is can't be a very pleasant prospect. I wish you and any other VM folks in the same position all the best for your futures.
Redundancy isn't the end of the world. I was made redundant from a well paid support role in 1995 and things looked bleak. I decided to take the contracting route instead of working as an employee. I haven't been out of work since.
Thanks, yeah things are a little "stressful" at the moment to say the least.. but who knows what the future brings...
Chrysalis
18-10-2011, 23:32
Pip a ex customer is managing to reply to almost every thread on there single handed within a day of post.
Pip a ex customer is managing to reply to almost every thread on there single handed within a day of post.
Does he have a job ?
Digital Fanatic
19-10-2011, 08:00
Pip a ex customer is managing to reply to almost every thread on there single handed within a day of post.
This is how the Community Forum is supposed to work, but not just one poster :D
Pip a ex customer is managing to reply to almost every thread on there single handed within a day of post.
I wonder why ...
Chrysalis
19-10-2011, 16:03
I wonder why ...
Well he is helping people not moaning etc. So if he can do it a full time employee should be able to.
Ignitionnet
19-10-2011, 16:28
Pip a ex customer is managing to reply to almost every thread on there single handed within a day of post.
It's a rather quicker job to write 'Your power levels look a bit high' , 'Looks like congestion' or whatever than to get the account details, go to Blue Tools / Cardie / Badger, maybe log onto the CMTS itself, perform diagnostics, maybe raise a new Remedy ticket and escalate to networks, maybe check engineer availability, PM the customer to inform of available slots and write in thread that a PM is waiting for them.
Pip a ex customer is managing to reply to almost every thread on there single handed within a day of post.
Does he have a lot of spare time on his hands then? I assure you that if he was a staff member and investigating the issues properly and looking in all the systems it would take him a lot longer to get anything done!
Digital Fanatic
19-10-2011, 18:10
Well he is helping people not moaning etc. So if he can do it a full time employee should be able to.
The 2nd line teams are also dealing with a lot of other stuff, the forum is a small part of that. They will look in as often as they can, but anyone with an urgent fault should call 151.
Welcome to our Help & Support forum. This is where you can get help from our forum community, share your experiences and your own answers.
This forum is for community based support. If you’ve got a problem with one of our services and need to talk to us directly or it's an urgent problem, please contact us.
Mick Fisher
19-10-2011, 19:09
The 2nd line teams are also dealing with a lot of other stuff, the forum is a small part of that. They will look in as often as they can, but anyone with an urgent fault should call 151.
and it's odds on you will get the offshored support who will be just the same waste of your time as the "so called" Help and Support Forum is.
Chrysalis
19-10-2011, 19:13
The 2nd line teams are also dealing with a lot of other stuff, the forum is a small part of that. They will look in as often as they can, but anyone with an urgent fault should call 151.
The question is why arent full time staff allocated to the forum? An earlier post in this thread from me suggested VM are deliberatly slow (using poor resources) to encourage people to phone as its evident they dont like doing online support. Something wrong with a company people urging to phone them knowing they got poor offshore support.
---------- Post added at 19:13 ---------- Previous post was at 19:12 ----------
It's a rather quicker job to write 'Your power levels look a bit high' , 'Looks like congestion' or whatever than to get the account details, go to Blue Tools / Cardie / Badger, maybe log onto the CMTS itself, perform diagnostics, maybe raise a new Remedy ticket and escalate to networks, maybe check engineer availability, PM the customer to inform of available slots and write in thread that a PM is waiting for them.
All that in all honesty unless VM have bad internal system probably takes about 5 minutes. given people on the phone can do that fairly quickly as well. You could have just said its because staff are only allocated a small time each day to check forum queries.
It's a rather quicker job to write 'Your power levels look a bit high' , 'Looks like congestion' or whatever than to get the account details, go to Blue Tools / Cardie / Badger, maybe log onto the CMTS itself, perform diagnostics, maybe raise a new Remedy ticket and escalate to networks, maybe check engineer availability, PM the customer to inform of available slots and write in thread that a PM is waiting for them.
Red tools now mate .. Blue tools died years ago ..
All that in all honesty unless VM have bad internal system probably takes about 5 minutes. given people on the phone can do that fairly quickly as well. You could have just said its because staff are only allocated a small time each day to check forum queries.
Don't forget on a call they talk you through it, ask you questions, this is all one sided and the forums are a lot less forgiving than chatting to someone on the phone.
2nd line also don't take calls from customers, they only tend to look at the "higher" level bits following on from 1st line diagnostics, so add together the time it takes to call in, go through all the checks on the phone, then wait for 2nd line to advise the agent what to do next, for them to do it and then come to a resolution, without the 2nd line guy being able to ask any questions in real time.
Oh and to add the forum posts tend to be tricky issues to find, the ones people couldnt get sorted over the phone.
kwikbreaks
20-10-2011, 09:27
It will be a real shame if they leave the forum to volunteers like pip who can certainly turn around the basic issues very quickly but it takes VM staff to check out congestion and arrange tech callouts for power level problems (the two issues I'm waiting to be answered on there).
I like many others don't have a VM phone and the absence of a national number makes listening to abysmal hold music rather expensive - especially it that is followed up by poor quality support. Another reason I prefer to use the forum.
Digital Fanatic
20-10-2011, 10:18
It will be a real shame if they leave the forum to volunteers like pip who can certainly turn around the basic issues very quickly but it takes VM staff to check out congestion and arrange tech callouts for power level problems (the two issues I'm waiting to be answered on there).
I like many others don't have a VM phone and the absence of a national number makes listening to abysmal hold music rather expensive - especially it that is followed up by poor quality support. Another reason I prefer to use the forum.
Fair comment.
kwikbreaks
20-10-2011, 15:41
Well I got an answer to the first of my two posts - high UBR utilisation which the tech says he's raised with networks. Strangely enough he didn't mention my browser cache.
No fault number or any suggestion when it may get fixed so I guess I'll either have to sit and wait or just give up and downgrade to 10Mbps which is all I can get anyway a lot of the time. I'll give it a couple of weeks and ask for a progress report if I don't hear anything before that.
Still answering posts dormant for 8 days at the moment.
Try and get a ref for it, we can check for you then.
kwikbreaks
20-10-2011, 16:45
Thanks for the offer.
Most of the time when they mention utilisation and networks they do give a fault reference but on this occasion the text was...
I've checked your connection and can see that the UBR which handles your connection is experiencing very high utilisation at peak times. I have raised this to our Network teams to investigate best methods to alleviate the load. As soon as we have some more information on this issue, we'll let you know.
A number of the things I've seen in the TBB monitor lead me to believe that the problem is caused by a single new user on 50 or 100 hammering torrents. It may be that now they apparently can't send out letters asking such people to move their downloads or get their shaping to work if active measures are taken to evade it so are lost on what to do.
Digital Fanatic
20-10-2011, 17:30
Thanks for the offer.
Most of the time when they mention utilisation and networks they do give a fault reference but on this occasion the text was...
A number of the things I've seen in the TBB monitor lead me to believe that the problem is caused by a single new user on 50 or 100 hammering torrents. It may be that now they apparently can't send out letters asking such people to move their downloads or get their shaping to work if active measures are taken to evade it so are lost on what to do.
The UBR (CMTS) will probably need upgrading, if you get the ref, as NP says, we can check for you and get any updates.
It usually takes a week or so before networks can get any information in the ticket though.
kwikbreaks
20-10-2011, 18:05
I'll ask for follow up info in a weeks time then. That should give a couple of weeks total which will hopefully at least produce a number if they are going to upgrade.
I still get good days though and can see random periods of punk hair in the TBB trace which start quickly last an hour or so then drop back pretty much immediately to what is far from perfect but still gives good speedtest results - that plus the abysmal upstream I see when it's bad is why I blame one torrent freak.
Chrysalis
20-10-2011, 21:51
Well they have escalated it which is good, when i complained I was told its high but not high enough to escalate, which is the answer a customer doesnt want to hear. I would rather hear its low and there is a fault elsewhere causng it or its high and been escalated.
Thank you for that extremely useful contribution. I shall bear it in mind. Have you ever considered going into manufacturing? Chocolate fire-guards should suit your talents perfectly.
That is the whole point though the is no SLA as this is a classed as a self help forum with back up from 2nd line support if no help is forthcoming and they usually man them for a full shift rather than an hour at the end.
This is what Virgin Media have specified as their requirements for the forum and therefore unlikely to be altered significantly in any way as they are happy with the results.
Since my last post on here on Tuesday the have been over 1824 posts just in the broadband section of the community forum and they are around 7/8 days behind at present, when I logged into this forum the were just over 1600 posts unread throughout every section so the is no real comparison statistic wise.
Mick Fisher
21-10-2011, 17:20
Nice to know VM are happy with the results. :erm:
Nice to know VM are happy with the results. :erm:
I think that's a Tongue in cheek comment .. Happy by the assumption they haven't made anything else known.
I see a lot of the work behind the scenes and Mark the forum manager is very loyal to his customer base and very quick to defend/address issues.
He's certainly well suited to his role and if you believe there is an issue with support I'm sure he'd be interested to hear about it.
Chrysalis
21-10-2011, 20:33
I got no issue with mark he seems to do his job well.
The VM staff who work on there are also polite and sometimes quite open in their results, posting things like utilisation percentages. The support is certianly higher quality then the phones. The only issue really is as kwikbreaks stated the wait times. When it was down to 2-3 days that was a lot more reasonable and its a shame its increased again.
Sephiroth
21-10-2011, 22:41
When I got fed up with the first engineer (arranged through the Community Forum) not getting networks to sort out the underlying problem, and noting that the Community Forum was taking too long to respond, I called the 50 meg support line. I've no idea whether or not the agent I spoke to was in India or UK, but they checked my line, agreed with my diagnosis and arranged a senior engineer for the following Monday (it was a Thursday).
The Senior Engineer indeed did know his stuff. And was working into the evening. He swapped out the VMNG300 and put a SH on (which I quickly set int Modem Mode). The problem remained (but the VMNG300 didn't). He said he'd get Networks out to the cabinet (reslope or new amplifier).
A few days later, job done and everything perfect. So the Community Forum wasn't the best route in this case.
The new self-book -an-engineer functions (when they work) ought to reduce the wait, though.
I got no issue with mark he seems to do his job well.
The VM staff who work on there are also polite and sometimes quite open in their results, posting things like utilisation percentages. The support is certianly higher quality then the phones.
Well they are 2nd line agents so you are getting the best at least until April.
BenJSmyth
21-10-2011, 23:09
I have to agree, the community forum support is usually pretty top notch. Something that can take 30-40 minutes on the phone can be answered on the forum. I don't mind if it takes a little longer to respond.
I think for those of us who experience problems where it requires an urgent response, the phone is always going to be the best choice. I hope any changes in April don't reduce the effectiveness of the forum.
I got no issue with mark he seems to do his job well.
The VM staff who work on there are also polite and sometimes quite open in their results, posting things like utilisation percentages. The support is certianly higher quality then the phones. The only issue really is as kwikbreaks stated the wait times. When it was down to 2-3 days that was a lot more reasonable and its a shame its increased again.
Either the support is fine or it's not.. You start your post saying you have no issues with support then go on tonto your only issue is ...
If it's too slow in your opinion tell them.. Give feedback.. Get a response.. Moaning here doesn't help.. Mark very likely will!
kwikbreaks
22-10-2011, 09:46
They are pulling back slightly from the 8 days it stretched to back to the 7 when I first started this thread - response on 21st to my post of the 14th reporting a high upstream power level. Response as I expected is an offer to book an engineer and no comment on my complaint that if their engineer hadn't randomly altered my tap this callout wouldn't be needed (and more importantly for me I wouldn't need to wait in on an engineer).
---------- Post added at 09:46 ---------- Previous post was at 09:36 ----------
Moaning here doesn't help.. Mark very likely will!I suspect they are doing their best with the resources devoted to the forum and moaning would likely just bring the response to phone if the problem is urgent rather than allocating more time to the board.
I was more drawing attention to the extended response time than actually complaining about it. Of course I'd prefer that they answer within 10 minutes of posting but that just isn't going to happen.
I'd rather wait a week on the board than waste a load of my time going through pointless tests and checks with a tech on the phone when I already know what the outcome of those is going to be. Nothing I do can fix congestion or incorrect power levels but I can guarantee if I'd called in with those two I'd have been asked to do download speed tests plus what we now know is part of the front-end repertoire of time wasters - flush the browser cache. Plus of course the obligatory reboot the modem and connect directly to it which is a bit of a problem when you are using VOIP to call.
They are pulling back slightly from the 8 days it stretched to back to the 7 when I first started this thread - response on 21st to my post of the 14th reporting a high upstream power level. Response as I expected is an offer to book an engineer and no comment on my complaint that if their engineer hadn't randomly altered my tap this callout wouldn't be needed (and more importantly for me I wouldn't need to wait in on an engineer).
---------- Post added at 09:46 ---------- Previous post was at 09:36 ----------
I suspect they are doing their best with the resources devoted to the forum and moaning would likely just bring the response to phone if the problem is urgent rather than allocating more time to the board.
I was more drawing attention to the extended response time than actually complaining about it. Of course I'd prefer that they answer within 10 minutes of posting but that just isn't going to happen.
I'd rather wait a week on the board than waste a load of my time going through pointless tests and checks with a tech on the phone when I already know what the outcome of those is going to be. Nothing I do can fix congestion or incorrect power levels but I can guarantee if I'd called in with those two I'd have been asked to do download speed tests plus what we now know is part of the front-end repertoire of time wasters - flush the browser cache. Plus of course the obligatory reboot the modem and connect directly to it which is a bit of a problem when you are using VOIP to call.
I can't say it any other way .. if your not happy tell someone in VM about it .. they can't fix or address it, if no one makes it known.
kwikbreaks
22-10-2011, 10:46
So are you suggesting I complain to the CEO office about the engineer? I've already mentioned the issue on the VM community board which as far as I'm concerned is an official channel.
===
For the utilisation I've now been given F001774579
So are you suggesting I complain to the CEO office about the engineer? I've already mentioned the issue on the VM community board which as far as I'm concerned is an official channel.
===
For the utilisation I've now been given F001774579
I was still talking about the slow replies from the forums, but as a rule in general, I feel that all feedback needs to be given. Nothing to do with where I work ..
I'll log on a check the ref later if no one gets to it before me.
kwikbreaks
22-10-2011, 11:46
TIA for checking the fault reference. I don't expect to see much done for a while especially as things have improved a little since I felt I had to complain.
From JB66's response earlier in the thread it seems it's common practice for the engineers to just swap connections around to fix the one they are working on without bothering too much if they are screwing up another one. IMO that should become obvious to local management and it's up to them to control. If it happens again though I will complain as it wastes my time as well as VM's own.
TIA for checking the fault reference. I don't expect to see much done for a while especially as things have improved a little since I felt I had to complain.
From JB66's response earlier in the thread it seems it's common practice for the engineers to just swap connections around to fix the one they are working on without bothering too much if they are screwing up another one. IMO that should become obvious to local management and it's up to them to control. If it happens again though I will complain as it wastes my time as well as VM's own.
If that's what's happened then it's more than unacceptable. Can you keep us informed with this please.
horseman
22-10-2011, 12:21
Some observations:
1. Forum /= Call Logging System
…anyone that has used a structured Problem Recording/Call Tracking system like IBM's Retain, Computer Associates Infoman, Lotus Notes, Utopia et al and a myriad of more recent packages will know what I mean.
Informal Forum/Bulletin Board Style software is simply not designed with necessary security/RDBMS services, hierarchical escalation, audit controls and structure technical progression to accommodate the more formalised expectations that now appear to be discussed here.
2. VM do "Semi-publish" stats for response times of various board categories but clearly have their own very valid reasons for limiting it's circulation to a subset of VM H&S users. However as pointed out previously it's not difficult to work out these stats yourself anyway and as already posted here come to the same figure! ;). Why they just don't have a Bus/Underground/National Rail type display banner reflecting the latest delay is as per item 1 - probably more a feature of reduced highlevel "scripting limitations" of trying to retrofit a Call Logging Design into a Forum product never intended to support that feature! :(
Some observations:
1. Forum /= Call Logging System
…anyone that has used a structured Problem Recording/Call Tracking system like IBM's Retain, Computer Associates Infoman, Lotus Notes, Utopia et al and a myriad of more recent packages will know what I mean.
Informal Forum/Bulletin Board Style software is simply not designed with necessary security/RDBMS services, hierarchical escalation, audit controls and structure technical progression to accommodate the more formalised expectations that now appear to be discussed here.
As I have posted above it would have to be a one to one type of forum where only the person posting can see their question and they then get answered personally by a member of the forum team, this would probably cause the forum to very quickly go under as many questions can and are answered by other members without the team becoming involved.
2. VM do "Semi-publish" stats for response times of various board categories but clearly have their own very valid reasons for limiting it's circulation to a subset of VM H&S users. However as pointed out previously it's not difficult to work out these stats yourself anyway and as already posted here come to the same figure! ;). Why they just don't have a Bus/Underground/National Rail type display banner reflecting the latest delay is as per item 1 - probably more a feature of reduced highlevel "scripting limitations" of trying to retrofit a Call Logging Design into a Forum product never intended to support that feature! :(
I doubt that either Virgin Media or lithium would ever contemplate adding such a banner to the forum as again it would stop people from posting or even replying and the forum would fall over through lack of members or anyone asking questions because they would see an SLA rather than the possibility that their query may be answered by another member.
Remember that the majority of questions are not answered by the forum team but by the members themselves using their own knowledge and experience.
I am just using your post to answer some questions and not detracting from your valid post.:)
kwikbreaks
22-10-2011, 16:48
If that's what's happened then it's more than unacceptable. Can you keep us informed with this please.Well you look at the evidence and tell me what you think happened...
12/10/2011 - posted when complaining about congestion
Cable Modem Downstream
DS-1 DS-2 DS-3 DS-4
Frequency 435000000 443000000 451000000 459000000
Lock Status
(QAM Lock/FEC Sync/MPEG Lock) Y/Y/Y Y/Y/Y Y/Y/Y Y/Y/Y
Channel Id 25 26 27 28
Modulation 256QAM 256QAM 256QAM 256QAM
Symbol Rate
(Msym/sec) 6.952 6.952 6.952 6.952
Interleave Depth I=12
J=17 I=12
J=17 I=12
J=17 I=12
J=17
Power Level
(dBmV) 1.78 1.70 1.92 1.18
RxMER
(dB) 37.36 37.64 37.94 37.94
Correctable
Codewords 13810 18957 2832 2859
Uncorrectable
Codewords 4741 6276 9226 9405
Cable Modem Upstream
US-1 US-2 US-3 US-4
Channel Type 2.0 N/A N/A N/A
Channel ID 4 N/A N/A N/A
Frequency
(Hz) 35800000 N/A N/A N/A
Ranging Status Success N/A N/A N/A
Modulation 16QAM N/A N/A N/A
Symbol Rate
(KSym/sec) 5120 N/A N/A N/A
Mini-Slot Size 4 N/A N/A N/A
Power Level
(dBmV) 51.75 N/A N/A N/A
T1 Timeouts 0 0 0 0
T2 Timeouts 0 0 0 0
T3 Timeouts 11 0 0 0
T4 Timeouts 0 0 0 0
Snip from event log...
Thu Oct 13 12:23:55 2011 Thu Oct 13 12:23:56 2011 Critical (3) SYNC Timing Synchronization failure - Loss of Sync;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Oct 13 12:24:01 2011 Thu Oct 13 12:24:01 2011 Warning (5) Lost MDD Timeout;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Power levels as spotted on 14/10/2011
Cable Modem Downstream
DS-1 DS-2 DS-3 DS-4
Frequency 435000000 443000000 451000000 459000000
Lock Status
(QAM Lock/FEC Sync/MPEG Lock) Y/Y/Y Y/Y/Y Y/Y/Y Y/Y/Y
Channel Id 25 26 27 28
Modulation 256QAM 256QAM 256QAM 256QAM
Symbol Rate
(Msym/sec) 6.952 6.952 6.952 6.952
Interleave Depth I=12
J=17 I=12
J=17 I=12
J=17 I=12
J=17
Power Level
(dBmV) -3.67 -3.80 -3.59 -4.22
RxMER
(dB) 36.17 36.61 36.84 36.84
Correctable
Codewords 21262 24670 8301 8146
Uncorrectable
Codewords 19598 20994 21746 19471
Cable Modem Upstream
US-1 US-2 US-3 US-4
Channel Type 2.0 N/A N/A N/A
Channel ID 4 N/A N/A N/A
Frequency
(Hz) 35800000 N/A N/A N/A
Ranging Status Success N/A N/A N/A
Modulation 16QAM N/A N/A N/A
Symbol Rate
(KSym/sec) 5120 N/A N/A N/A
Mini-Slot Size 4 N/A N/A N/A
Power Level
(dBmV) 57.71 N/A N/A N/A
T1 Timeouts 0 0 0 0
T2 Timeouts 0 0 0 0
T3 Timeouts 11 0 0 0
T4 Timeouts 0 0 0 0
Now just what would you say happened?
I suppose I could take out the 6dB FP attenuator to see if it stems the mounting uncorrectable errors but there is now a tech visit booked for Friday anyway.
TIA for checking the fault reference. I don't expect to see much done for a while especially as things have improved a little since I felt I had to complain.
From JB66's response earlier in the thread it seems it's common practice for the engineers to just swap connections around to fix the one they are working on without bothering too much if they are screwing up another one. IMO that should become obvious to local management and it's up to them to control. If it happens again though I will complain as it wastes my time as well as VM's own.
Now your just putting words in my mouth, I never said it was common practice. Its more complicated than that. I was just giving an opinion on what I think may have happened.
Somtimes you have to move drops on taps, Its a little bit of guesswork but mostly common sense, its more than likely a mistake and bad luck.
You dont know what equipment is on which drop. What I do if I have to move a customers power band up and all the taps are in use is I look for the oldest most rusty connector and pull it out. If the stinger is green/white I know its a customer who is no longer with us (or if they are the'll have no return path) and use that tap. If there are no taps available then I do a shuffle and move a few customers down one row. Whats unacceptable is moving a low attenuated tap customer to a high attenuated tap. Thats just making a fault to fix another.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2011/10/19.jpg
kwikbreaks
22-10-2011, 21:58
You know how it all hangs together and I don't but that just sounds very hit and miss to me. Sorry if it sounded like I was putting words in your mouth but your response sounded to me like it was obvious what had happened (and imo it was) and it was nothing remarkable (which to me it should be).
Surely if there is no vacant tap at the correct level needed then it should be a case of connecting to a lower attenuation and fitting bigger attenuators. Are there no records indicating which taps are in use by which customer and which are live and which aren't?
Net effect of this is that the engineer got one job done and made another wasting VMs time and mine and making me think that maybe BT should get another chance when Infinity comes my way - although the current line back to the exchange has a problem in my old house there was never a problem yet on cable I had several already with at least one being caused by a sloppy engineer and another by over enthusiastic sales selling more capacity than was available locally.
Chrysalis
23-10-2011, 03:37
Either the support is fine or it's not.. You start your post saying you have no issues with support then go on tonto your only issue is ...
If it's too slow in your opinion tell them.. Give feedback.. Get a response.. Moaning here doesn't help.. Mark very likely will!
The support is fine but the wait isnt.
I didnt start this thread I am merely taking part. Dont assume what I say on here hasnt also been said on the VM forums.
The support is fine but the wait isnt.
I didnt start this thread I am merely taking part. Dont assume what I say on here hasnt also been said on the VM forums.
Why do I need to make any assumptions, I just reply based on your post here.
You make a comment, I reply to it. :rolleyes:
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