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View Full Version : ADSL £5 increase? I think not. Bye bye, Virgin.


Chris
29-08-2011, 20:20
It's the end of an era. I have been with the company formerly known as NTL for a little over 10 years now in one form or another (Phone + dialup, then TV, phone + broadband, then offnet to dialup, then ADSL) but the outrageous letter they sent me this morning has put an end to it.

From mid-October, my ADSL service is increasing by £5 per month. That's an eye-popping increase of more than 25%. I nearly missed the letter as well, they send me so much junk trying to sign me up to Virgin Mobile the letter almost went straight in the bin. I only caught it in time because my neighbour got one too ... and he and I are both now leaving.

Funnily enough, I got a Summer Deals flyer from BT this morning as well. I've been tempted by their service since being impressed with their FON access during my summer hols. So I have placed an order and as soon as I get my MAC from VM in the morning, I will be off.

So long NTL/VM, it's been a (mostly) fun decade, but you have become too demanding and I require your services no longer.

Needless to say, for old times sake I plan to continue to help run Cable Forum. :D

Sirius
29-08-2011, 20:24
Needless to say, for old times sake I plan to continue to help run Cable Forum. :D

Good :tu:

denphone
29-08-2011, 20:36
Well l cannot say l blame you Chris as there is only so much a customer can take before he says that enough but as you say your presence will still be on Cable Forum.

Chris
29-08-2011, 20:48
Thank you both. :)

I'm curious though, are huge price rises happening in the cable operation as well, or are they simply trying to screw what they can out of the poor relations on ADSL?

denphone
29-08-2011, 21:00
Well since l have had 2 tivo,s installed its quite hard to understand Virgin,s bills but all l know is that the loyalty discount l used to have has near enough disappeared so compared to a year ago l am paying about £8 more including the £3 tivo monthly fee.

Maggy
29-08-2011, 21:03
I would point out that we are deep in the depths of financial doodoo and everything has gone up..

It might be to the point to find out who hasn't put their prices up and has promised not to put up prices..

Nopanic
29-08-2011, 21:04
odd time of year for a price increase .. not something I've heard of to be honest ..

dilli-theclaw
29-08-2011, 21:05
I don't recall getting a letter about this - i has better call tomorrow.

denphone
29-08-2011, 21:09
I would point out that we are deep in the depths of financial doodoo and everything has gone up..

It might be to the point to find out who hasn't put their prices up and has promised not to put up prices..

Yes its very true that everythings gone up but peoples disposable incomes are being reduced all the time.

muppetman11
29-08-2011, 21:16
It's the end of an era. I have been with the company formerly known as NTL for a little over 10 years now in one form or another (Phone + dialup, then TV, phone + broadband, then offnet to dialup, then ADSL) but the outrageous letter they sent me this morning has put an end to it.

From mid-October, my ADSL service is increasing by £5 per month. That's an eye-popping increase of more than 25%. I nearly missed the letter as well, they send me so much junk trying to sign me up to Virgin Mobile the letter almost went straight in the bin. I only caught it in time because my neighbour got one too ... and he and I are both now leaving.

Funnily enough, I got a Summer Deals flyer from BT this morning as well. I've been tempted by their service since being impressed with their FON access during my summer hols. So I have placed an order and as soon as I get my MAC from VM in the morning, I will be off.

So long NTL/VM, it's been a (mostly) fun decade, but you have become too demanding and I require your services no longer.

Needless to say, for old times sake I plan to continue to help run Cable Forum. :D

Can't say I blame you £5.00 is a huge increase , how much were you paying before the increase ?

Chris
29-08-2011, 21:18
The letter

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=22591&stc=1&d=1314645473

Chris
29-08-2011, 21:19
I would point out that we are deep in the depths of financial doodoo and everything has gone up..

It might be to the point to find out who hasn't put their prices up and has promised not to put up prices..

Gone up I can cope with. Gone up by more than 25% is a bit harder to stomach...

dilli-theclaw
29-08-2011, 21:19
I shall keep an eye out for it then. I guess I shall move on too.

muppetman11
29-08-2011, 21:30
http://www.virgin.net/allyours/broadband/index.shtml

25.99 seems pricey to me , especially considering Sky charge non Sky customers 15.00 for unlimited BB , and O2 charge 17.50.

Chris
29-08-2011, 21:38
At the moment I'm paying £18.35 for up to 8Mb on a package they don't sell any more. AFAIK there doesn't appear to be any hard download cap on it, which is possibly why they're keen to hike the price so much. The lack of any obvious download limit is, incidentally, the only reason I stuck with them after their last price rise (£3, 2 years ago if their letter is to be believed).

---------- Post added at 20:38 ---------- Previous post was at 20:36 ----------

If VM staff who ought to know about this, don't know about this, I wonder whether this is a minor tidying-up exercise designed to boot those of us who are still getting a reasonably good deal off the network ...

Ignitionnet
29-08-2011, 21:52
O2 raised their prices also recently - a couple of providers including O2 have found their prices too low for the usage their customers were generating.

VM pay many monies for BT bandwidth, it's far more expensive than the cable network, especially IPStream DSL like yours, no surprise at all that £18.35 is unsustainable especially if they aren't shaping the nuts out of it as they do to some people.

---------- Post added at 20:52 ---------- Previous post was at 20:42 ----------

http://www.virgin.net/allyours/broadband/index.shtml

25.99 seems pricey to me , especially considering Sky charge non Sky customers 15.00 for unlimited BB , and O2 charge 17.50.

Need to compare those rates to the Sky and O2 rates for customers outside their network.

Sky's Connect product is heavily shaped, available only with TV, has a 40GB/month limit and is £17/month.

O2's Access product is £35 a month and requires you to move your phone line to O2.

Both are the equivalent of VM's products. Not nice.

martyh
29-08-2011, 22:22
is the price hike anything to do with this (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnologyandtelecoms/telecoms/4963390/Broadband-prices-could-increase-under-BT-plans.html) Chris ?

Rainman
29-08-2011, 22:24
Its odd that when one puts up the price they all follow, just like the big energy companies so why is this not looked into. Now they all seem to charge for every thing you can do with your phone like last number redial,call connection and this use to be free.
If this an't screwing you for every last bit what else can they charge for.
I have notice that its a trend for VM to make two increases a year so the next should be in October if it is I'm off too

Ignitionnet
29-08-2011, 22:34
is the price hike anything to do with this (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnologyandtelecoms/telecoms/4963390/Broadband-prices-could-increase-under-BT-plans.html) Chris ?

I can answer that - no, that applies to fully unbundled lines, Chris is served over a BT Wholesale line.

muppetman11
29-08-2011, 23:23
O2 raised their prices also recently - a couple of providers including O2 have found their prices too low for the usage their customers were generating.

VM pay many monies for BT bandwidth, it's far more expensive than the cable network, especially IPStream DSL like yours, no surprise at all that £18.35 is unsustainable especially if they aren't shaping the nuts out of it as they do to some people.

---------- Post added at 20:52 ---------- Previous post was at 20:42 ----------



Need to compare those rates to the Sky and O2 rates for customers outside their network.

Sky's Connect product is heavily shaped, available only with TV, has a 40GB/month limit and is £17/month.

O2's Access product is £35 a month and requires you to move your phone line to O2.

Both are the equivalent of VM's products. Not nice.

Yes very true something that actually slipped my mind. :)

Chris
30-08-2011, 11:55
Just been on the phone ... had the same experience as my neighbour. They're not offering any sort of retention (not that I asked for one) - they 'quite understand' my desire not to endure the £5 increase. It seems to me that they simply want either to get legacy customers off the books, or get them paying the same as those on the current products.

So my MAC code is in the post, so to speak. One curious thing though, is how it can take 3-4 days to generate and send by email? Anyone know what the process is?

kwikbreaks
30-08-2011, 12:16
It is possible for some companies at least to generate a MAC while you are on the phone (I've had that once when leaving Freedom2Surf many years ago). Many will send one pretty much by return and still others take it to or even beyond the 5 working days Ofcom permit.

I don't know what the process is precisely but I imagine it has to link up to BT (wholesale probably) so that they can validate the MAC when the new ISP asks to take over the connection. That probably limits the number of people at the ISP that can actually do the job and is why I could get one instantly from F2S who were tiny at the time yet VM are going to take a while sending you one.

I hope they don't try this malarky on cable but if they do I'll certainly downgrade rather than pay more.

Zee
30-08-2011, 12:34
Going up by £5 is quite a bit and i wouldn't accept it either

Milambar
30-08-2011, 12:45
Maybe thsi is why:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2028865/Richard-Branson-ran-naked-rescue-Kate-Winslet-mother-Necker-Island-fire.html

The beardie has to recoup the damages somehow..

Yes, Im just being silly. I hope broadband doesn't rise in a similar manner.

Chris
30-08-2011, 13:25
Just got my MAC number in my email and forwarded it to BT, so I guess that really is me on my way out of NTL/Virgin's clutches for the first time in more than 10 years. :spin:

---------- Post added at 12:25 ---------- Previous post was at 12:20 ----------

I hope they don't try this malarky on cable but if they do I'll certainly downgrade rather than pay more.

I think this malarkey really is about dealing with ADSL customers on legacy products that aren't making them any money. You're not likely to see sudden, massive price hikes in your cable subs. I hope not, anyway!

Ignitionnet
30-08-2011, 13:33
It is possible for some companies at least to generate a MAC while you are on the phone (I've had that once when leaving Freedom2Surf many years ago). Many will send one pretty much by return and still others take it to or even beyond the 5 working days Ofcom permit.

I don't know what the process is precisely but I imagine it has to link up to BT (wholesale probably) so that they can validate the MAC when the new ISP asks to take over the connection. That probably limits the number of people at the ISP that can actually do the job and is why I could get one instantly from F2S who were tiny at the time yet VM are going to take a while sending you one.

It's BT Wholesale who generate the MAC so you need someone with access to BT's eCo online system to do it, VM won't have every person on the phone with eCo access. :)

---------- Post added at 12:33 ---------- Previous post was at 12:27 ----------

Just got my MAC number in my email and forwarded it to BT, so I guess that really is me on my way out of NTL/Virgin's clutches for the first time in more than 10 years. :spin:

---------- Post added at 12:25 ---------- Previous post was at 12:20 ----------



I think this malarkey really is about dealing with ADSL customers on legacy products that aren't making them any money. You're not likely to see sudden, massive price hikes in your cable subs. I hope not, anyway!

Correct. At that price and with average usage levels going up so much the product wouldn't have been sustainable.

VM's per-customer usage has gone up on average 43% per year over the past 4 years, the cable network can soak that up due to economies of scale, the ADSL network apart from the areas served by Cable and Wireless LLU not so much as there are far less economies to be had when virtually everything is being purchased from a 3rd party.

muppetman11
30-08-2011, 19:10
It's BT Wholesale who generate the MAC so you need someone with access to BT's eCo online system to do it, VM won't have every person on the phone with eCo access. :)

---------- Post added at 12:33 ---------- Previous post was at 12:27 ----------



Correct. At that price and with average usage levels going up so much the product wouldn't have been sustainable.

VM's per-customer usage has gone up on average 43% per year over the past 4 years, the cable network can soak that up due to economies of scale, the ADSL network apart from the areas served by Cable and Wireless LLU not so much as there are far less economies to be had when virtually everything is being purchased from a 3rd party.

Just a question Ignition , am I right in thinking then that companies such as BSKYB must be vastly subsidising the price of their Unlimited BB for Sky TV customers as 7.50 seems ridiculously cheap in much the same way as O2 discount their BB products to their mobile customers.

Chris
30-08-2011, 19:17
There are different prices for ADSL depending on whether it's available as an unbundled product. My exchange is a small rural one and is not unbundled. All ISPs selling broadband through it are effectively re-selling BT services with their own brand on top. AFAIK it's rather more expensive that way but I have little choice.

muppetman11
30-08-2011, 19:49
Thankfully my exchange has many of the LLU operators but unfortunately no fibre service at the moment with no date scheduled.

Ignitionnet
30-08-2011, 20:42
Just a question Ignition , am I right in thinking then that companies such as BSKYB must be vastly subsidising the price of their Unlimited BB for Sky TV customers as 7.50 seems ridiculously cheap in much the same way as O2 discount their BB products to their mobile customers.

Sky aren't, they have big economies of scale and have people on their phone service as well so they pay BT a single charge for the copper.

Sky Broadband has been profitable for a while now.

VM don't have an unbundled network of their own, they buy use of Cable and Wireless' unbundled network in some areas but where that isn't available they have to pay BT end to end which is expensive.

Chris
31-08-2011, 16:18
I have passed the MAC number to BT; BT and VM have both independently contacted me by email to confirm my service switches over on 6 September.

Does anyone know how this happens? Will I have an active broadband service at all times or am I going to find VM cutting me off at 9am and BT not enabling me until 9pm or anything like that?

muppetman11
31-08-2011, 16:31
I have passed the MAC number to BT; BT and VM have both independently contacted me by email to confirm my service switches over on 6 September.

Does anyone know how this happens? Will I have an active broadband service at all times or am I going to find VM cutting me off at 9am and BT not enabling me until 9pm or anything like that?

Last time I was switched when last on ADSL it was virtually seamless , the only downtime you should have is when the work is done, you probably will be none the wiser.

http://ask.ofcom.org.uk/help/internet-service/MAC

kwikbreaks
31-08-2011, 16:42
It depends if your VM connection is LLU or not.

I think we established that you are on IPstream. On changeover day at some time or other there will be a keyboard job done somewhere (probably India) that maps your new BT signon to the BT endpoint it will be using (functional definition - no idea of the proper technical terms). The VM one won't be deleted for a day or so so you could just carry on using it until it eventually fails and then swap over your modem/router to the BT supplied one. Alternately just try the BT kit sometime early evening and the chances are it will work.

If you were on a LLU connection then the wires to that DSLAM are disconnected and reconnected to the BT DSLAM. That will cause a break in service and prompt you to swap modem/router over to the BT one. It should work as soon as the physical connections at the exchange and your own router swap are completed - 1/2 hour tops.

Chris
31-08-2011, 17:02
Thanks muchly, Kwikbreaks :tu: I am on an IPstream product, no LLU within many miles of here. Not much of anything within many miles of here in fact. :D

So, I am expecting my BT Homehub to arrive by courier some time during that day, and I guess if I wait to plug it in until evening the chances are I will simply climb off the VM service (when I switch off my trusty Linksys gateway) and then climb onto the BT one.

kwikbreaks
31-08-2011, 17:17
I'm not sure if the BT kit comes pre-configured or not. You may need to enter your assigned user login and password and possibly a few other technical bits and bobs which you'll get told about somehow. Often CDs are supplied for the router setup if you don't fancy using the GUI. You never need to install the additional software that ISPs like to load their CDs up with and I personally have always just taken the GUI route and left the CD in the box.

Chris
31-08-2011, 17:41
Well, I already have my new BT user name and password so if the Homehub wants those details at first switch-on I can deal with that. I'm quite looking forward to having BT's service now; I borrowed a password to make use of some local FON hotspots while I was on holiday this summer and it was an excellent feature. It meant I could keep my business online bookings system running while I was away without spending a penny on 3G for my iPad. In fact I've still yet to put a 3G sim in the thing.

Next thing is for me to track down the recent thread on using a spare gateway to extend the range of my wifi, as I'm going to have an unused Linksys kicking around the house in a few days.

Zhadnost
31-08-2011, 23:37
I'm sorry to say this, but you're signing up with BT. Something will go wrong. It always does. Either they will call you the day before to tell you that the port date has changed (the last time they did this to me, it was a business account and I was abroad on holiday, and still would be at the new date), or they will bill you a completely different amount to the amount you are paying, or tie you into a completely different contract.

I have in the past signed up more BT accounts of various types than I have fingers and toes and none of them have ever gone right.

kwikbreaks
01-09-2011, 07:21
<irony>I'm sure such inefficiencies and errors will be truly shocking to an ex-VM customer who has been used to impeccable service.</irony>

Zhadnost
01-09-2011, 08:14
I currently manage accounts with Be, BT and Virgin (got it down to three now).

Of which, the most professional have probably been Be, but Virgin have been generally very good.

One example with BT, I ported a number across to another company (not fixed line) and agreed to reactive the line with BT (at the same time). They gave me a phone number, a line rental, a deal (which gave a small number of free minutes, and cheaper per minute call costs), told me I'd be on a 1 month rolling contract and that there wouldn't be an installation charge because the line is already connected and working.

A few days later, the paperwork came through, with a different phone number (good job I hadn't published it yet), a higher line rental, no free minutes, a 2 year contract
, a £140 (iirc) installation charge and a different hand over date.

In the end, the only thing I got out of them was the installation charge.

Of all the ADSL services I run, the BT (business broadband) account is by far the slowest connection (even though it has the fastest sync speed being situated somewhere a lot closer to the exchange), and for some reason I need to proxy web access on it, otherwise there is often a 5 or 6 second delay before being able to open most websites. (although this doesn't happen on any other service, ie. ssh / vpn etc, do they operate a congested transparent proxy?)

Either way, I hope everything goes well for the OP, I'll resist crossing my fingers for him (never helps me).

kwikbreaks
01-09-2011, 09:17
I can't comment on BT for ADSL as I've never used them but I can say that the only "no show" service visit I've ever had from any company providing any service (and I'm over 60 years old) was VM.

In the two years I've been with them there have been 2 billing faults which I had to call in to get corrected. I'm not convinced that I got the correct refund on the last one but the ongoing price was correct so rather than waste more of my life chasing a possible few quid back I let it stand.

Most big business has abysmal CS. In general it's pointless swapping as the next provider will be just as bad.

jonop360
01-09-2011, 18:18
is this price increase only for those with just bb as im currently paying over £120 a month and im afraid this will be the straw that broke the camels back

Chris
01-09-2011, 18:22
This is not for cable customers. It is for off-network ADSL customers. If you have cable TV/broadband then you don't have anything to worry about.

jonop360
01-09-2011, 18:33
great thanks for the quick reply

Chris
06-09-2011, 12:29
The postie just delivered my HomeHub. My daughter is now pestering me every five minutes to 'open daddy's new toy'. :D

Chris
06-09-2011, 16:02
... and BT just sent me an email inviting me to switch said HomeHub on. It took longer for me to root about under my desk swapping cables over than it did for the hub to get me online.

Broadband speed looks stable and exactly the same as it was an hour ago with the Virgin Media service, so all looking promising. Hopefully the DSLAM isn't going to try to renegotiate my sync speed and profile as it has already done that with my old router and VM ADSL.

So, that was NTL and me. 2001-2011. Mostly fun while it lasted.

Does anyone know a good forum for bitching about shoddy BT services? :D

kwikbreaks
06-09-2011, 16:13
IPstream migrations don't normally reset your profile so everything should remain as it was.

The only changes you'll see (assuming the BT and VM hubs have broadly the same performance which is likely) are possible differences in ISP congestion and traffic management. You will be on a different exchange VP but those are rarely the cause of any slowdown.

Kymmy
06-09-2011, 16:26
Does anyone know a good forum for bitching about shoddy BT services? :D

There a good one HERE (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/63/) just watch out though as some of the admins are weird and the mods even weirder ;)

Sirius
06-09-2011, 17:37
There a good one HERE (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/63/) just watch out though as some of the admins are weird and the mods even weirder ;)

I would have to agree with that :)