View Full Version : 'HomeSafe' for VirginMedia??
Hi,
Does anyone know if VM are looking to provide an ISP level filtering system like TalkTalk's 'HomeSafe'?
I personally like the idea... although it may have some opposition generally.
Mick Fisher
12-05-2011, 16:04
Nothing that VM get up to would surprise me.
But please don't allow yourself to be suckered into thinking that it would be for your benefit. It (file://\\t) would be just another way of tracking to serve personalised ads or just to sell thhe clickstream data to a third party for profit.
craigj2k12
12-05-2011, 16:25
..or even just track users preferences and sire popularity, both of which are an invasion of privacy
pip08456
12-05-2011, 16:29
Surprising how many people don't actually realise how "helpful" these things are that ISP's con you into using.
craigj2k12
12-05-2011, 16:37
Surprising how many people don't actually realise how "helpful" these things are that ISP's con you into using.
if people were technical minded enough to know what this fintering garbage means, they would be technically minded enough to not go with talktalk in the first place
i had a terribly oversubscribed talktalk package for a while, they wouldnt even acknowledge it, even when I asked them as a "new customer" using an alias, they told me their contention ratio was 50:1, which is fairly high, but not to the extent that the connection dropped when the line profile was set to 15db, and I even got them to set it higher, but it still dropped out at peak times, i think they were contending us at about 80:1 or 100:1 around about there.
anyway back to the filtering.... :D
Surprising how many people don't actually realise how "helpful" these things are that ISP's con you into using.
Personaly i hope Vm NEVER do anything like this as its just one step away from a VM version of phorm
craigj2k12
12-05-2011, 16:49
Personaly i hope Vm NEVER do anything like this as its just one step away from a VM version of phorm
as I said in another thread, its another server for traffic to go through, and the more the un-merrier
Personaly i hope Vm NEVER do anything like this as its just one step away from a VM version of phorm
I'm sure it would be like TalkTalk's version in that it would be an 'Opt In' option.
I wouldn't go with TalkTalk's Broadband offering.
I have laptops, desktops, iPads, iPhones etc.. and a 12 year old daughter. I don't want to have to manage content filtering on all these devices. I like the idea of it being managed from the ISP.
pip08456
12-05-2011, 16:52
I'm sure it would be like TalkTalk's version in that it would be an 'Opt In' option.
I wouldn't go with TalkTalk's Broadband offering.
I have laptops, desktops, iPads, iPhones etc.. and a 12 year old daughter. I don't want to have to manage content filtering on all these devices. I like the idea of it being managed from the ISP.
More fool you, Google K9.
If content filtering is worrying you take a look at how much a lot you can do with the router.
See if you have a page like this
http://www.polarcloud.com/v/screst.htm
craigj2k12
12-05-2011, 16:57
More fool you, Google K9.
as he said, he wouldnt want to configure on every device. but there are a lot better alternatives, like opendns, or even setting up a proxy. DDWRT and Tomato have good filtering options, and are a lot better than using an ISP based filter
I'm sure it would be like TalkTalk's version in that it would be an 'Opt In' option.
I wouldn't go with TalkTalk's Broadband offering.
I have laptops, desktops, iPads, iPhones etc.. and a 12 year old daughter. I don't want to have to manage content filtering on all these devices. I like the idea of it being managed from the ISP.
I set it up once on my linksys router running tomato and have not had to touch it since.
pip08456
12-05-2011, 17:57
I set it up once on my linksys router running tomato and have not had to touch it since.
Set up what?
Ignitionnet
12-05-2011, 18:02
..or even just track users preferences and sire popularity, both of which are an invasion of privacy
No they aren't, and are being done on an aggregated basis. No individual data is being stored on individual subscribers.
easydns lets you do something similar without the hassle of all your traffic going via a bottleneck.
craigj2k12
12-05-2011, 18:55
No they aren't, and are being done on an aggregated basis. No individual data is being stored on individual subscribers.
still, individual packets are being inspected
Set up what?
I restrict access to certain sites
craigj2k12
12-05-2011, 19:08
I restrict access to certain sites
The problem with the custom firmwares like tomato and DDWRT, the 2 i have used is that they can block sites, and based on keywords as well, but they dont have a database of bad sites like blocking software does, so you cant ask it to block "p0rn0gr4ph1c" sites or "social networking" sites where the router would have a stored database of these sites and block them based on what category is set.
i personally would be against it being set at the ISP, and if virgin were to do it, I would assess the situation and consider changing ISP
i personally would be against it being set at the ISP, and if virgin were to do it, I would assess the situation and consider changing ISP
Agreed.
Isps are looking for any way of making money. Let them do this and soon enough they will start to expand it so they can make money from it. Ads based on where you have been on the net anyone ?
craigj2k12
12-05-2011, 19:23
Agreed.
Isps are looking for any way of making money. Let them do this and soon enough they will start to expand it so they can make money from it.
id rather pay more and have a higher quality service.
id go with be* for their quality but distance from the exchange blah blah blah, cant wait until they do FTTC in my area, especially with the new available speeds
Ignitionnet
12-05-2011, 19:34
still, individual packets are being inspected
By an automated process, the irrelevant stuff discarded.
The shaping inspects as well. There is, officially, no privacy issue there, this all falls under the remit of network management exemption from interception regulation.
craigj2k12
12-05-2011, 19:36
By an automated process, the irrelevant stuff discarded.
The shaping inspects as well. There is, officially, no privacy issue there, this all falls under the remit of network management exemption from interception regulation.
either way, its causing the packets to become less efficient
Ignitionnet
12-05-2011, 19:43
either way, its causing the packets to become less efficient
Not really, additional latency once the flow has been added to the table and identified is in the microseconds, a single delay of a few milliseconds on the first packets in the flow.
Far bigger causes of delay on a large segmented network.
craigj2k12
12-05-2011, 21:55
still could slow browsing and things on that line
There are few things you can do on the web that would be badly affected by a few milliseconds delay. Gaming is one.
BenJSmyth
13-05-2011, 12:35
opendns.com is another offering and one I use and think is fab!
opendns.com is another offering and one I use and think is fab!
(I'm the OP)..
Thanks for all the advice.... and the winner is......
openDNS.
Very impressed! took 5 mins to configure on my Linksys router and 5 mins to setup on the opendns website. Now everything on my network is protected - with just one admin point. Ad Free for 10USD a year is also good.
Thanks again.
Paul
;)
pip08456
13-05-2011, 16:48
id rather pay more and have a higher quality service.
id go with be* for their quality but distance from the exchange blah blah blah, cant wait until they do FTTC in my area, especially with the new available speeds
I await their FTTC offering especially now that BT have announced a doubling of speed for it in 2012.
craigj2k12
13-05-2011, 16:51
I await their FTTC offering especially now that BT have announced a doubling of speed for it in 2012.
distance from the exchange will then be overtaken by "distance from the cabinet"
either way, no one will match virgins headline speeds until ftth is rolled out
pip08456
13-05-2011, 18:41
VM concentrate on download headline. ATM I average 37 down and 8 up. Double that would be 74 down and 16 up which is a better ratio than VM's 100 down and 10 up. Add to that lower ping and less jitter.
Who's looking better.
VM concentrate on download headline. ATM I average 37 down and 8 up. Double that would be 74 down and 16 up which is a better ratio than VM's 100 down and 10 up. Add to that lower ping and less jitter.
Who's looking better.Strange how you forecast BT speed increases, but assume VM won't offer the same....
craigj2k12
13-05-2011, 19:34
Strange how you forecast BT speed increases, but assume VM won't offer the same....
he never said that VM wont offer speed increases, I think you should read his post again. He said that BT VDSL has better upload speed ratio compared to VM, which at the moment they do
he never said that VM wont offer speed increases, I think you should read his post again. He said that BT VDSL has better upload speed ratio compared to VM, which at the moment they doI was responding to Double that would be 74 down and 16 up which is a better ratio than VM's 100 down and 10 upwhich was prediction....;)
craigj2k12
13-05-2011, 19:49
I was responding to which was prediction....;)
;) i really dont want to start an argument, but I was talking about the same as you. He said he averages 37 down and 8 up, and when the speeds double it will be 74 down 16 up, and that this would be a better upspeed/downspeed ratio than vm's 100/10 service
on another note, double the headline speed does not mean double your actual speed, they are doubling the speeds by using more frequencies with the same equipment, there are still a number of things to factor in
pip08456
13-05-2011, 20:20
;) i really dont want to start an argument, but I was talking about the same as you. He said he averages 37 down and 8 up, and when the speeds double it will be 74 down 16 up, and that this would be a better upspeed/downspeed ratio than vm's 100/10 service
on another note, double the headline speed does not mean double your actual speed, they are doubling the speeds by using more frequencies with the same equipment, there are still a number of things to factor in
Correct craig.
ATM I get av 37 down and 8 up so if the speed is doubled then it is reasonably safe to assume that I would get c.74 down, 16 up although the headline would be 80 down and 20 up.
As you say it's better than VM's ratio and once ping and jitter are factored in then it is far superior.
Interesting to note also the VM tout their service as being perfect for gaming but ping and jitter ( the gamers nightmare) are more prelevant on their network.
Not being an online gamer it doesn't bother me. The up/down ratio does though.
Strange how you forecast BT speed increases, but assume VM won't offer the same....
Not my forecast either.
"Our roll out of super-fast broadband is one of the most rapid in the world, passing an average of 80,000 additional premises each week and we have plans to roughly double the speed of our fibre-to-the-cabinet based service in 2012. "
Scource (http://www.btplc.com/news/articles/showarticle.cfm?articleid={9ca00af0-d824-41d1-b3ce-2646ff821ef7})
I only assumed my increase in speed.
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