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Hope I'm in the right place.... I have a friend who has had problems with his computer. Some how he ended up with trojan. At the moment he has Virgin Media Security not sure which one but he said it came free with his broadband. It was unable to deal with the trojan. Is this security software any good or should he install some thing free like Avast or AVG?
General Maximus
05-05-2011, 19:59
Hope I'm in the right place.... I have a friend who has had problems with his computer. Some how he ended up with trojan. At the moment he has Virgin Media Security not sure which one but he said it came free with his broadband. It was unable to deal with the trojan. Is this security software any good or should he install some thing free like Avast or AVG?
neither dude, as the saying goes "you pay for what you get"
craigj2k12
05-05-2011, 20:08
i find AVG to be pretty good, but nothing clears out nasties like a format & clean install of windows
i find AVG to be pretty good, but nothing clears out nasties like a format & clean install of windows
If everything else fails that's what he'll probably have to do!.. but in the meantime he's done a systems restore hoping that will sort thing out. I'll find out tomorrow at work if he has removed it.
pip08456
05-05-2011, 20:34
Downlaod and run the free version of Malwarebytes (http://download.cnet.com/Malwarebytes-Anti-Malware/3000-8022_4-10804572.html)
er.. I'm torn here .. I work for VM so if I say anything against VMS it looks bad, but then I'm a computer person, so I have my own opinions ..
The current VMS is a bit .. lumpy .. As above you really do get what you pay for and I would recommend
http://anti-virus-software-review.toptenreviews.com/ppc-index.html?cmpid=4558
you work it out for yourself :)
craigj2k12
05-05-2011, 20:50
er.. I'm torn here .. I work for VM so if I say anything against VMS it looks bad, but then I'm a computer person, so I have my own opinions ..
The current VMS is a bit .. lumpy .. As above you really do get what you pay for and I would recommend
http://anti-virus-software-review.toptenreviews.com/ppc-index.html?cmpid=4558
you work it out for yourself :)
i dont work for VM, and therefore dont mind slagging off their software, its a POS :td::td::td::td:
General Maximus
05-05-2011, 21:28
he's done a systems restore hoping that will sort thing out
system restores dont remove viruses/torjans/worms
system restores dont remove viruses/torjans/worms
I'll ask him tomorrow if he still has the trojan. If he has I will get him to download malware-bytes. I can't understand why a company like Virgin Media have a crappy anti-virus security software. If they can't do it properly then don't do it at all.
General Maximus
05-05-2011, 21:43
the same could be said for a lot of stuff VM do *cough* superhub. At the end of the day it looks good when they say you get a tonnes of free crap with your BB package because customers just think it saves them money and at the end of the day that is what Virgin go for in their multi-service package advertising.
craigj2k12
05-05-2011, 21:54
system restores dont remove viruses/torjans/worms
they do if you restore the system to a date before the nasties are present ;)
I'll ask him tomorrow if he still has the trojan. If he has I will get him to download malware-bytes. I can't understand why a company like Virgin Media have a crappy anti-virus security software. If they can't do it properly then don't do it at all.
VMS is created by http://www.radialpoint.com and the Anti virus is based on the Kaspersky engine, I think.
pip08456
06-05-2011, 10:06
Yes, it is the Kaspersky engine for about the past 2 yrs, previously it was BitDefender IIRC.
AndyCalling
06-05-2011, 17:13
Since all MS Windows XP/Vista/7 owners have already paid for Microsoft Security Essentials I don't see why they would install a free killer. It gets great reviews and doesn't seem to slow the system down or cause the problems other killers often do. It also deals with adware as a bonus. If MS can't remove a virus from their own OS then you're probably stuffed as no-one else knows Windows as well as they must.
roughbeast
06-05-2011, 17:26
I use Spyhunter 4 as a last line of defence if my regular AV software lets something through. It has never failed me. It will even remove nasties from your boot sector. It will cost you though. £25.00 HERE (http://www.enigmasoftware.com/products/spyhunter/)
Edit.............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ......
The best improvement to a PC's performance, is the removal of VMS. Just saying.
As for a virus/trojan, the only way to be 100% sure that its gone, is a reinstall of the OS from clean sources. However, for most people, Malwarebytes does an excellent job of cleaning a system. I've found the free version of Malwarebytes able to remove stuff that my full, paid-for version of KIS2011 can't.
I have never used Malwarebytes, but you are right, it gets good reviews.
I also agree with what you say about VMS, even its improved version. Like many I just use MS Security Essentials and then have something really robust ready to run, just in case. SpyHunter is my preference.
Milambar
06-05-2011, 17:55
The best improvement to a PC's performance, is the removal of VMS. Just saying.
As for a virus/trojan, the only way to be 100% sure that its gone, is a reinstall of the OS from clean sources. However, for most people, Malwarebytes does an excellent job of cleaning a system. I've found the free version of Malwarebytes able to remove stuff that my full, paid-for version of KIS2011 can't.
roughbeast
06-05-2011, 18:16
they do if you restore the system to a date before the nasties are present ;)
Yeah, but the nasty could be anywhere. For instance, if it is in the boot sector a complete reformat and system re-installation won't get rid of it.
Neo-Tech
06-05-2011, 18:17
they do if you restore the system to a date before the nasties are present ;)
Wrong. Most sophisticated viruses and trojans infect System Restore points too. ;)
In my opinion, remove all the Virgin crap, install Microsoft Security Essentials and Malwarebytes Antimalware and you should be good.
craigj2k12
06-05-2011, 21:15
Wrong. Most sophisticated viruses and trojans infect System Restore points too. ;)
In my opinion, remove all the Virgin crap, install Microsoft Security Essentials and Malwarebytes Antimalware and you should be good.
depends on the virus really, the more advanced ones can affect restores, but they only usually affect windows restore, any other backup program seems to work better, and you can put the backup on a disc or usb drive or whatever
---------- Post added at 21:15 ---------- Previous post was at 21:14 ----------
Yeah, but the nasty could be anywhere. For instance, if it is in the boot sector a complete reformat and system re-installation won't get rid of it.
are you saying that the boot sector doesnt get formatted? i dont think so
roughbeast
06-05-2011, 21:43
depends on the virus really, the more advanced ones can affect restores, but they only usually affect windows restore, any other backup program seems to work better, and you can put the backup on a disc or usb drive or whatever
---------- Post added at 21:15 ---------- Previous post was at 21:14 ----------
are you saying that the boot sector doesnt get formatted? i dont think so
A simple reformat deleting partitions will not get rid of boot sector viruses, especially where folk have hidden boot sectors and the like; the sort that some pre installed versions of Windows have from companies like Dell. Fdisk / mbr followed by a complete reformat will totally wipe a disc.
A simple reformat deleting partitions will not get rid of boot sector viruses, especially where folk have hidden boot sectors and the like; the sort that some pre installed versions of Windows have from companies like Dell. Fdisk / mbr followed by a complete reformat will totally wipe a disc.
Deleting the partitions will remove everything .. as the pre installed windows will be on a partition ..
craigj2k12
07-05-2011, 00:30
Deleting the partitions will remove everything .. as the pre installed windows will be on a partition ..
boot sector is just a regular partition, its only hidden by windows
pip08456
07-05-2011, 01:07
Deleting the partitions will remove everything .. as the pre installed windows will be on a partition ..
boot sector is just a regular partition, its only hidden by windows
Quite true. But if you wanted to go overboard you could perform a low level format back to RAW state and then re-format with either NTFS of FAT32 depending on your windows OS.
boot sector is just a regular partition, its only hidden by windows
Did you just agree with me ?
roughbeast
07-05-2011, 11:21
Quite true. But if you wanted to go overboard you could perform a low level format back to RAW state and then re-format with either NTFS of FAT32 depending on your windows OS.
I think that is what I was recommending, just to be sure. Why just use a belt when you can wear braces as well? Fdisk / MBR then reformat.
pip08456
07-05-2011, 11:59
By recommending Fdisk you are also advocating the use of FAT16/FAT32 rather than the more stable NTFS.
craigj2k12
07-05-2011, 12:30
Did you just agree with me ?
no, i was agreeing with myself, did you say the same as me? you must have agreed with me!
---------- Post added at 12:27 ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 ----------
I think that is what I was recommending, just to be sure. Why just use a belt when you can wear braces as well? Fdisk / MBR then reformat.
dont forget your tinfoil hat
if you can pm me with a link to any virus/trojan/malware/anything that can survive when you format the hard drive, i will load it onto my computer, just to format it to prove you wrong :D
---------- Post added at 12:30 ---------- Previous post was at 12:27 ----------
By recommending Fdisk you are also advocating the use of FAT16/FAT32 rather than the more stable NTFS.
the only reason FAT should be used over NTFS is if you are using Windows 95/98/Me, which you shouldn't be!
besides the fact that FAT is less secure than NTFS in the first place, you would be using an unsupported operating system, with old software not up to date with providing protection against the latest nasties
NTFS also lets you use file compression, and drive read/write speeds are quicker under NTFS
adzii_nufc
07-05-2011, 14:34
If someone were to create a virus that could not be removed via formatting..
I think he would aim a bit higher than infecting a machine with Virgin Internet Security :dunce:
if you can pm me with a link to any virus/trojan/malware/anything that can survive when you format the hard drive, i will load it onto my computer, just to format it to prove you wrong
Nothing is Impossible... Although I doubt it would be your average Virus :p:
craigj2k12
07-05-2011, 14:51
If someone were to create a virus that could not be removed via formatting..
I think he would aim a bit higher than infecting a machine with Virgin Internet Security :dunce:
Nothing is Impossible... Although I doubt it would be your average Virus :p:
when a hard drive is formatted, everything is wiped completley
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_formatting
pip08456
07-05-2011, 14:54
the only reason FAT should be used over NTFS is if you are using Windows 95/98/Me, which you shouldn't be!
besides the fact that FAT is less secure than NTFS in the first place, you would be using an unsupported operating system, with old software not up to date with providing protection against the latest nasties
NTFS also lets you use file compression, and drive read/write speeds are quicker under NTFS
I wasn't advocating to use of this outdated tech.
It is also worth noting that companies (eg, Hewlett Packard, Dell et al) were supplying XP to home users on a FAT32 platform for a few years.(it will work on it,).
craigj2k12
07-05-2011, 15:03
xp has the choice of FAT32 or NTFS on the format options
the setup for XP is much mroe advanced than that for vista/7, in the newer OS's you dont even get the option for a full format, it only does a quick format
the setup for XP is much mroe advanced than that for vista/7, in the newer OS's you dont even get the option for a full format, it only does a quick formatDon't see that being much of problem
craigj2k12
07-05-2011, 15:13
from MS support
This article describes the differences between a Quick format and a regular format.
MORE INFORMATION
When you choose to run a regular format on a volume, files are removed from the volume that you are formatting and the hard disk is scanned for bad sectors. The scan for bad sectors is responsible for the majority of the time that it takes to format a volume.
If you choose the Quick format option, format removes files from the partition, but does not scan the disk for bad sectors. Only use this option if your hard disk has been previously formatted and you are sure that your hard disk is not damaged.
If you installed Windows XP on a partition that was formatted by using the Quick format option, you can also check your disk by using the chkdsk /r command after the installation of Windows XP is completed.
Yes I know, however modern hard disks do bad sector remapping themselves, so a full disk check isn't needed that much
craigj2k12
07-05-2011, 15:20
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2329378,00.asp
In simple terms, a Full format will truly scrub through the hard drive from scratch, rebuild all of its file structures, and scans the drive to make sure that everything is on a satisfactory level. On the other hand, what a Quick format does is lay down a blank FAT and directory table without checking for bad sectors.
This is why when you buy a brand-new unformatted hard drive, you cannot give it a Quick format. The drive needs a Full Format because it needs the entire file structures set-up, so the FAT actually has blocks and sectors to track, rather than a chaotic mess. However, like we mention earlier, if your hard drive is already has a clean slate and has no bad sectors, a Quick format will be suitable.
Also, If you installed Windows on a partition that was formatted by using the Quick format option, you can check your hard drive by using the chkdsk /r command after the installation of Windows is completed. In conclusion—don't be lazy. You already went the distance with the tedious task of reformatting. Select the Full Format and both your computer and you will live in harmony…until the next format.
pip08456
07-05-2011, 16:45
Actually if you use the quick format option your files are still accessable via windows explorer.
craigj2k12
07-05-2011, 19:19
Actually if you use the quick format option your files are still accessable via windows explorer.
care to explain? oh and by the way, if i have understood you correctly, you are wrong
IT WORKED!!!! After he did a systems restore the trojan has gone!!! I would highly recommend it before re-installing your operating system or any thing more drastic!
During a restoration, an active antivirus program scans for infected files. If the antivirus program detects any infected files, the antivirus program tries to modify, move, or delete the infected files. If the antivirus program successfully cleans the infected files, System Restore restores the cleaned files. However, if the antivirus software cannot clean a file, the antivirus software deletes or quarantines the file. As a result, the restoration does not work because these actions to the file cause an inconsistent restoration state. As a result, System Restore reverts to the state immediately before the restoration.
What you trying to say? he still has the trojan. Why is he NOT having any problems then?
craigj2k12
09-05-2011, 23:32
Unless it infected the backup image then system restore will clear it.... Jeez all that fuss over nothing
What you trying to say? he still has the trojan. Why is he NOT having any problems then?
No, I'm detailing why it has possibly worked.
When a virus gets into the active windows files the anti virus programs are refused access, much like trying to change a spark plug whilst the engine is running. Thats why a lot of these apps have the option to run at startup, before the system locks out the important files.
pip08456
10-05-2011, 10:11
No, I'm detailing why it has possibly worked.
When a virus gets into the active windows files the anti virus programs are refused access, much like trying to change a spark plug whilst the engine is running. Thats why a lot of these apps have the option to run at startup, before the system locks out the important files.
You're getting better, you're right again!:D:D:D
telfordcable
10-05-2011, 15:34
I use Nod32
You're getting better, you're right again!:D:D:D
Praise from the two "best" posters .. I feel humbled ..
No, I'm detailing why it has possibly worked.
When a virus gets into the active windows files the anti virus programs are refused access, much like trying to change a spark plug whilst the engine is running. Thats why a lot of these apps have the option to run at startup, before the system locks out the important files.
Oh ok. Thanks for your help :)
pip08456
10-05-2011, 23:15
Praise from the two "best" posters .. I feel humbled ..
I should think so too!!!:D:D:D:D
craigj2k12
10-05-2011, 23:33
Praise from the two "best" posters .. I feel humbled ..
;)
Praise from the two "best" posters .. I feel humbled ..
Should the not have been a letter "P" in there rather than a "B":D:D:D
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