Over Utilised Bank Holiday

[craigj2k12]

:(:(:(:(:(

as per the title

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2011/04/34.png
http://www.pingtest.net/result/39392689.png

been bad this weekend, must be everyone online, which is a surprise, given the weather

to confirm:

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2011/06/120.png

---------- Post added at 14:10 ---------- Previous post was at 14:09 ----------

i have nothing running, and the tests are pretty similar connected direct to the modem :(

---------- Post added at 14:16 ---------- Previous post was at 14:10 ----------

just re-started everything and guess what:

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2011/04/35.png

[vmfriend]

Your point being ?

I rode past the motorway earlier, there was alot of traffic which restricted the speed at which people could drive.

Just seen your second post, so this thread was a complete waste of time.

Delete ?

[pip08456]

Download Failed (1)

Download Failed (1)

[craigj2k12]

another speed test

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2011/04/33.png

a bit better, not quite there on the downstream, and no where near on the upstream

any ideas what the problem is, bank holiday rush, im connected directly to the modem now, so there might be a bit of packet loss appearing on the tbb monitor

[Gary L]

Your point being ?

I rode past the motorway earlier, there was alot of traffic which restricted the speed at which people could drive.

If the lead cars were to drive at the maximum speed, then the following cars wouldn't have to go much slower?

[Stuart]

Your point being ?

I rode past the motorway earlier, there was alot of traffic which restricted the speed at which people could drive.

Just seen your second post, so this thread was a complete was of time.

Delete ?

No, it's not.

Your example of the motorway was, however. As a customer, you pay more to VM for greater speeds. As such, you have every right to expect them.

You don't pay any extra road tax to use motorways than you do normal roads (I am not counting the cost of cars because you can buy cars with or without paying road tax, as long as you have adequate private land to drive them on), so it's not a valid comparison. If you did pay differing levels of road tax for different speeds, it would be a different story.

If VM are promising a speed, and failing to deliver, users have every right to complain.

[craigj2k12]

does this look like over utilisation, my power levels are fine. or could this be a fault, the service status page sayd no problem apart from tv, there is no on demand service, but i dont even have tv services

[pip08456]

If the lead cars were to drive at the maximum speed, then the following cars wouldn't have to go much slower?

Except that the further down the road you get more cars join onto it.

[craigj2k12]

Except that the further down the road you get more cars join onto it.

its more like a lorry has jack knifed

---------- Post added at 14:46 ---------- Previous post was at 14:44 ----------

what number is it for the 50meg support, cant find it at all

[vmfriend]

No, it's not.

Your example of the motorway was, however. As a customer, you pay more to VM for greater speeds. As such, you have every right to expect them.

You don't pay any extra road tax to use motorways than you do normal roads (I am not counting the cost of cars because you can buy cars with or without paying road tax, as long as you have adequate private land to drive them on), so it's not a valid comparison. If you did pay differing levels of road tax for different speeds, it would be a different story.

If VM are promising a speed, and failing to deliver, users have every right to complain.

It is an UP TO service, VM don't promise any speed to the end user.

The motorway comparison was completely valid, irrespective of price, the more traffic, the more congestion, broadband is the same, as has been said numerios times on this site, if you want/require an uncontended service, the price you or I pay to VM is nowhere near sufficient.

---------- Post added at 15:28 ---------- Previous post was at 15:24 ----------

its more like a lorry has jack knifed

---------- Post added at 14:46 ---------- Previous post was at 14:44 ----------

what number is it for the 50meg support, cant find it at all

It's not even on the VM site ?

[Stuart]

It is an UP TO service, VM don't promise any speed to the end user.

So you consider VM delivering just over 1/10th of the speed they promise they'll deliver upto adequate? You must be VM's favourite customer..

BTW, I know how contention works. The motorway example is not valid purely because you don't pay the government different taxes for different speeds. You *do* pay virgin different rates for different speeds. Contention (or traffic) may the reason the network is slow, but if contention *is* the reason VM can't provide a good network speed, maybe they need to look at upgrades?

[pip08456]

0800 042 0531 if I recall correctly.

[vmfriend]

So you consider VM delivering just over 1/10th of the speed they promise they'll deliver upto adequate? You must be VM's favourite customer..

If the op has an issue with the speed being provided posting on here will make zero difference, besides he posted a speed test result not minutes after showing that he is getting nearly full speed.

---------- Post added at 15:33 ---------- Previous post was at 15:32 ----------

So you consider VM delivering just over 1/10th of the speed they promise they'll deliver upto adequate? You must be VM's favourite customer..

BTW, I know how contention works. The motorway example is not valid purely because you don't pay the government different taxes for different speeds. You *do* pay virgin different rates for different speeds. Contention (or traffic) may the reason the network is slow, but if contention *is* the reason VM can't provide a good network speed, maybe they need to look at upgrades?

I think I am right, you think you are right, nothing going to change that so we'll leave it there shall we ;)

[pip08456]

Coward!:D:D:D:D

[Stuart]

I think I am right, you think you are right, nothing going to change that so we'll leave it there shall we ;)

Probably best. Personally, for any serious complaint, I have to admit, I don't take one speed reading. I take several over a few hours. I am well aware that large systems (such as networks) can suffer glitches. that it can be difficult (if not impossible) to track the cause of, and which can disappear as suddenly as they appeared.

[vmfriend]

;)

[craigj2k12]

as you have mentioned, speed test results are best to be averaged over a period of time, iv just been out doing some gardening, and now came back to the PC and:
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2011/04/31.png

still not 100% happy with the upload speed, but down speed and ping are better. Im going to ring up virgin anyway to see if it was over utilisation, as its the royal wedding on friday, and people are probably going to be streaming it, or just doing whatever they are doing today which is going to *expletive* me off, as i will be at home using the net on friday

[Ignitionnet]

It happens occasionally, not possible to budget network capacity to handle all peaks, would need prices to be higher.

You seem to be wanting leased line like performance given you're unhappy with 80% of maximum upstream speed and as you've reminded other people on more than one occasion that's not feasible. :)

[craigj2k12]

....straight through to offshore, i think i will ring tomorrow. does anyone know if england are available today?

[Ignitionnet]

Yes they are, but in reduced numbers and will be busy helping people with faults.

[craigj2k12]

It happens occasionally, not possible to budget network capacity to handle all peaks, would need prices to be higher.

You seem to be wanting leased line like performance given you're unhappy with 80% of maximum upstream speed and as you've reminded other people on more than one occasion that's not feasible. :)

thanks ingni, but the net was hardly usable for an hour, i wouldnt mind if it was down to 1 or 2 meg, but providing pings werent up the wall, and browsing was okay. im an average joe, and im not paying thousands of pounds per month for someone to give me a leased line, as i have said, the service i get from virgin is (usually) top notch, but this weekend it has been considerably poo

[Gary L]

....straight through to offshore, i think i will ring tomorrow. does anyone know if england are available today?

I doubt it mate, it's bank holiday monday. try ringing when the indians are in bed :)

[craigj2k12]

my tbb graph reflects the quality of my service today

the 100% packet loss was when i was testing directly to the modem, so ignore that

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2011/06/120.png

---------- Post added at 15:56 ---------- Previous post was at 15:56 ----------

up to 11am it was fine!!!!

[Ignitionnet]

thanks ingni, but the net was hardly usable for an hour, i wouldnt mind if it was down to 1 or 2 meg, but providing pings werent up the wall, and browsing was okay. im an average joe, and im not paying thousands of pounds per month for someone to give me a leased line, as i have said, the service i get from virgin is (usually) top notch, but this weekend it has been considerably poo

Could have been anything, SNR issue causing drop, simply being busy, whatever, if it's behaving itself now little point in wasting your time calling up.

[craigj2k12]

i have no idea about this, but it looks like my upstream has changed from 16QAM to QPSK?

any ideas?

---------- Post added at 16:00 ---------- Previous post was at 15:58 ----------

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2011/04/30.png

---------- Post added at 16:00 ---------- Previous post was at 16:00 ----------

still not entirely happy about the upstream

[pip08456]

i have no idea about this, but it looks like my upstream has changed from 16QAM to QPSK?

any ideas?[COLOR="Silver"]

[

Noise on the line causing the UBR to downgrade to the more tolerant QPSK.

[craigj2k12]

Noise on the line causing the UBR to downgrade to the more tolerant QPSK.

whats causing the noise? i havnt changed anything?

[Peter_]

whats causing the noise? i havnt changed anything?
Not you on the network.;)

[craigj2k12]

Not you on the network.;)

are english call centres on today? i keep getting through to india

[Ignitionnet]

Go have a few beverages, it's Easter Monday, stuff the Interwebs, certainly over the matter of about a Mbit/s of upstream. Latency seems marginally up according to the speed test, downstream is good, upstream slightly down, touch of congestion, probably go once the noise has been removed from network and kids go back to school tomorrow.

[craigj2k12]

Go have a few beverages, it's Easter Monday, stuff the Interwebs, certainly over the matter of about a Mbit/s of upstream. Latency seems marginally up according to the speed test, downstream is good, upstream slightly down, touch of congestion, probably go once the noise has been removed from network and kids go back to school tomorrow.

i dont want it to be like this on friday, i actually want to use the internet during the wedding, (i wont be watching the wedding by the way)

[Ignitionnet]

What are you hoping the British call centre will be able to do?

They'll be aware of the modulation drop and it'll addressed.

Go out to a street party instead, must be one nearby :)

[Chrysalis]

for me yesterday was worser than today.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2011/04/29.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

speeds been holding out all the holiday period but latency yesterday got quite shaky and youtube yesterday was aweful. (could have been youtube side to be fair).

this is probably a more stressful period than xmas, even tho its nice weather I suspect more people will have stayed in on the internet than over xmas.

---------- Post added at 17:02 ---------- Previous post was at 16:57 ----------

thanks ingni, but the net was hardly usable for an hour, i wouldnt mind if it was down to 1 or 2 meg, but providing pings werent up the wall, and browsing was okay. im an average joe, and im not paying thousands of pounds per month for someone to give me a leased line, as i have said, the service i get from virgin is (usually) top notch, but this weekend it has been considerably poo

this is what happens when just let things congest without port capacity management, people may still get what seems like high throughput and speedtests make it look ok but actual usage will be severely dented hance my points made on the quarterly results thread.

VM need a entanet/comcast capacity management system.

---------- Post added at 17:04 ---------- Previous post was at 17:02 ----------

Go have a few beverages, it's Easter Monday, stuff the Interwebs, certainly over the matter of about a Mbit/s of upstream. Latency seems marginally up according to the speed test, downstream is good, upstream slightly down, touch of congestion, probably go once the noise has been removed from network and kids go back to school tomorrow.

school holidays all week :p

[Ignitionnet]

Depends where in the country you are.

[craigj2k12]

they go back tomorrow where i am

[Chrysalis]

here they off till the 4th wow, way too many bank holidays.

looking at the entire school holiday doc the school holidays are way excessive, summer term first half is only 18 days till half term.

[Peter_]

are english call centres on today? i keep getting through to india
Well I was in earlier and the only days we do not work is Sunday.

[pip08456]

Well I was in earlier and the only days we do not work is Sunday.

Must have been a busy day as craig could only get through to India!:D:D:D

[Peter_]

Must have been a busy day as craig could only get through to India!:D:D:D
The was at least 5 teams in so we must have been busy.

[Ignitionnet]

Loads of people phoning in because lots of people were actually using their connections today and they weren't receiving their 'promised' and 'guaranteed' speeds ;)

[Peter_]

Loads of people phoning in because lots of people were actually using their connections today and they weren't receiving their 'promised' and 'guaranteed' speeds ;)
I never guarantee anything and nor does the website as it says up to nothing more.;)

[craigj2k12]

I never guarantee anything and nor does the website as it says up to nothing more.;)

well after telling the foreign... noob... the problem, he asked me how long it had been like this, and i had my tbb graph in front of me, and it had spiked at 11am, so i told him 11am (this was at 5pm), he asked me to boot into safe mode with networking, and run another speed test (after testing at 20mb in normal mode) when i did it was 29mb, so he asked what anti-virus i use, and i told him AVG, and he said in safe mode there is no anti virus, and because my speed was faster in safe mode, it must be my anti virus causing the problem. He then put me on hold, said he was consulting with the network technician, and when he came back he said that AVG had released an update recently and that my speed tests were suffering because the update was downloading in the background. I explained to the idiot that if the update started at 11am, my connection would not be dodgy at 5pm, the download simply wouldnt take that long. He told me that he had checked my signal levels and area utilisation and all was fine.

From here I went on to tell him that the upload speed was slower than usual, usually 4.6 to 4.8mb and it was testing at 2-3mb he said that this was well in range of what i should be expecting and that he would conduct "further tests" because i told him i was still not happy. He said he would ring back either tomorrow, or before 6pm tonight (no reply today, and im out tomorrow (haha the jokes on him)) whats annoying is that he said there was no over utilisation problem

[Peter_]

well after telling the foreign... noob... the problem, he asked me how long it had been like this, and i had my tbb graph in front of me, and it had spiked at 11am, so i told him 11am (this was at 5pm), he asked me to boot into safe mode with networking, and run another speed test (after testing at 20mb in normal mode) when i did it was 29mb, so he asked what anti-virus i use, and i told him AVG, and he said in safe mode there is no anti virus, and because my speed was faster in safe mode, it must be my anti virus causing the problem. He then put me on hold, said he was consulting with the network technician, and when he came back he said that AVG had released an update recently and that my speed tests were suffering because the update was downloading in the background. I explained to the idiot that if the update started at 11am, my connection would not be dodgy at 5pm, the download simply wouldnt take that long. He told me that he had checked my signal levels and area utilisation and all was fine.

From here I went on to tell him that the upload speed was slower than usual, usually 4.6 to 4.8mb and it was testing at 2-3mb he said that this was well in range of what i should be expecting and that he would conduct "further tests" because i told him i was still not happy. He said he would ring back either tomorrow, or before 6pm tonight (no reply today, and im out tomorrow (haha the jokes on him)) whats annoying is that he said there was no over utilisation problem
Well I would not hold my breath over a callback and the normal number for 50Mb Support is 0800 052 0431, unless I checked the connection myself I would take anything said with a pinch of salt.

If I spoke to you and you said that you had called in and the were notes on the account I would be running my checks before even viewing those notes as I only trust my results and no one elses as to many times they are incorrect regardless of country of origin of the agent.

[pip08456]

Sorry craig, looks like my the recollection of the number was wrong.:Oh::Oh:

[craigj2k12]

it was the 50mb support line i called. i understand it is a lot easier to talk to a UK call centre but everytime i heard a foreign accent i put the phone down and rang again. after 6 attempts i just carried on and stayed with the foreign call centre.

If i call tomorrow, can I ask for you? i know that you know what you are talking about

i take it theres no guarantee of getting through to UK? and would there be any point in calling if there is no problem tomorrow?

oh and my AVG update will have finished downloading by tomorrow anyway LOL :@

---------- Post added at 22:35 ---------- Previous post was at 22:34 ----------

Sorry craig, looks like my the recollection of the number was wrong.:Oh::Oh:

yeah you got the 5 and 4 the wrong way round lol. actaully, i used one that masque had posted on another thread so I think i got the right number

[Ignitionnet]

I never guarantee anything and nor does the website as it says up to nothing more.;)

What the website says and what people think they've purchased are quite different things - note the references all over the place to promised speeds.

[craigj2k12]

What the website says and what people think they've purchased are quite different things - note the references all over the place to promised speeds.

theres a difference to speeds dropping and a fault

[Peter_]

What the website says and what people think they've purchased are quite different things - note the references all over the place to promised speeds.
We all know that and you have known that for a lot longer than me.;)

I like SKY's up to 20Mb especially as I know that resolves to less than 1.5Mb around here due to the distance from the exchange, my estate is right on the edge on the Samknows site.:D

[Chrysalis]

Loads of people phoning in because lots of people were actually using their connections today and they weren't receiving their 'promised' and 'guaranteed' speeds ;)

what about the typical speeds?

[craigj2k12]

what about the typical speeds?

as i have pointed out, there is a difference between "loss of speed" and a "fault"

there is also a difference between the network being busy and it being over utilised

[Chrysalis]

to me it seems logical to have max uk manning in call centres when people are not at work, evenings and holiday periods. Instead it seems to be the opposite and they man up during office hours.

[craigj2k12]

as you can see, my graph has settled:

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2011/06/120.png

and so have speeds:

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2011/04/26.png

[browney]

I'm seeing issues this bank holiday....

Download Failed (1)


https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2011/04/25.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

[Chrysalis]

as you can see, my graph has settled:

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2011/06/120.png

and so have speeds:

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2011/04/26.png

your graph looks pretty bad to me, worthy of a CEO office complaint.

here is mine for today.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/f16accc991984beea14a3a059cac6584-25-04-2011.png (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/f16accc991984beea14a3a059cac6584-25-04-2011.html)

here is one of a superhub on my port.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/5837e88a606d58dc1f5e9f935c62438f-25-04-2011.png (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/5837e88a606d58dc1f5e9f935c62438f-25-04-2011.html)

[craigj2k12]

I'm seeing issues this bank holiday....

Download Failed (1)


https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2011/04/25.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

jesus christ

---------- Post added 26-04-2011 at 00:18 ---------- Previous post was 25-04-2011 at 22:59 ----------

i have sent a rather long email to watchdog to ask them to have a look into the throttling of gaming protocols and unidentified traffic, lets see where that gets us

[Peter_]

to me it seems logical to have max uk manning in call centres when people are not at work, evenings and holiday periods. Instead it seems to be the opposite and they man up during office hours.
0800 until 2200 Monday to Friday and 0800 to 1600 Saturday is very strange office hours to say the least.

Plus we have a small team online from 0700 Monday to Friday.

[Chrysalis]

what about sundays and bank holidays?

[Ignitionnet]

your graph looks pretty bad to me, worthy of a CEO office complaint.

The CEO's office is an escalation point if the normal support chain breaks down. A poor TBB latency meter isn't 'worthy' of a CEO's office complaint just because of how bad it is.

EDIT: Incidentally I actually did use the CEO's office last week. Having gone through the call centre, Twitter team and community forum. Piling into them straight away isn't good or clever and they will likely be instituting some processes in the near future to ensure people aren't using them as first line.

[Chrysalis]

The CEO's office is an escalation point if the normal support chain breaks down. A poor TBB latency meter isn't 'worthy' of a CEO's office complaint just because of how bad it is.

EDIT: Incidentally I actually did use the CEO's office last week. Having gone through the call centre, Twitter team and community forum. Piling into them straight away isn't good or clever and they will likely be instituting some processes in the near future to ensure people aren't using them as first line.

I make a judgement call based on experience.

If I have a complete outage then its normal tech support.
Likewise if its something like bad power output or bad SNR.
If my tv were to go down or the phone line I also would likely go to tech support.
If a utilisation issue I will likely try the forums first and if nothing satisfactory within a week then escalate.
If its something I know that only the CEO office can deal with eg. the vmng300's then its straight to them.

I have also been told more than once to call them back if I have further issues. But that was after the time I rang them back just to say thank you when my utilisation issue got fixed and specifically asked them to stop my discounts, they were pleasantly surprised saying people dont often do that.

For ping/latency issues I would lump that under utilisation so yes I would try the forums first for that but I wouldnt bother on the phones.

[craigj2k12]

I make a judgement call based on experience.

If I have a complete outage then its normal tech support.
Likewise if its something like bad power output or bad SNR.
If my tv were to go down or the phone line I also would likely go to tech support.
If a utilisation issue I will likely try the forums first and if nothing satisfactory within a week then escalate.
If its something I know that only the CEO office can deal with eg. the vmng300's then its straight to them.

I have also been told more than once to call them back if I have further issues. But that was after the time I rang them back just to say thank you when my utilisation issue got fixed and specifically asked them to stop my discounts, they were pleasantly surprised saying people dont often do that.

For ping/latency issues I would lump that under utilisation so yes I would try the forums first for that but I wouldnt bother on the phones.

are you mad, you rang up the CEO office to cancel your discount!! wtf :erm:

[Chrysalis]

yeah, I have no issue paying full price for a service that is fine. Although since then I have been tempted to go for one of those loyalty discounts as I wasnt too impressed with that VM caved in on the 30mbit retention deals.

The discount probably would not have lasted long anyway, my past experience is they have to apply it manually every month and have even needed to be reminded to keep it going, its not like the discounts from retentions which are automated.

[Peter_]

what about sundays and bank holidays?
We do not work Sundays just the hours above.

[Ardbeg1977]

We all know that and you have known that for a lot longer than me.;)

I like SKY's up to 20Mb especially as I know that resolves to less than 1.5Mb around here due to the distance from the exchange, my estate is right on the edge on the Samknows site.:D

Whereas in my area, it's an overheating VM streetcab that's causing problems with my internet (sub-dialup surfing performance) and newly installed Tivo box. VM have got a bit of a cheek with that 'broadband con' schtick. They should get their own problems sorted out first!