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Cosmo
12-04-2011, 20:25
I'm waiting for my Virgin Router to arrive so I should be on Virgin National in a few days.
However I have a question..

To my understanding they will traffic shape me if I download a lot during peak times. But what about downloading during off-peak? As it is unlimited, am I able to download non stop at my max speed during off-peak without being affecting during peak time with traffic shaping?

In other words, can I download 57.6GB (off-peak) everyday and NOT get throttled during peak time as a result?

From their T&Cs it seems like I shouldn't be, but then again Sky had the same policies and did it anyway :td::mad:

Thanks for the help guys,
Cosmo

DABhand
12-04-2011, 20:29
This has been an issue of debate a few times back at the official forums, where their usage of the word unlimited is not right.

They claim you can download any amount of files etc. But even on 50mb speeds people have had the letters to say they are downloading too much and if they don't stop they would have services cancelled.

Not really unlimited. And the bad part nobody is sure what amount it is to flag this response. So your and everyone else's guess is anyone's guess.

Ignitionnet
12-04-2011, 20:44
They aren't going to tolerate you downloading non-stop at maximum speed even off-peak, very few ISPs will as there's really no need and the subscription fees paid don't cover that kind of use.

Can you not get http://www.bethere.co.uk ?

AaronCooper
12-04-2011, 20:48
There is no limit on how much you can download; but during the daytime your speed will be reduced if you download over a certain usage. However this doesn't stop you from downloading, just slows it down.

I've never heard of the issues that DAB claims, but i'm sure if you was torrenting thousands and thousands of GBs per month you could possibly get a warning.

Chris
12-04-2011, 20:51
Virgin suggests that it only monitors download usage on its ADSL product between 4pm and 10pm each evening. So if you're downloading a lot in the wee small hours it should be ok - unless you download so much that they decide you have breached their AUP.

Given that their AUP has no quoted download limit, and contains no explicit statement about how they monitor you and decide whether you're downloading too much, it's tricky to say whether you would fall foul of it or not. But if you do:

we may have to temporarily suspend, disconnect or limit the speed of the Service at our discretion. You will be notified in advance by email.

http://www.virgin.net/terms/broadband_tc.shtml

TBH I'd be amazed if there's enough legal content on the internet for you to download 57GB each and every night ... unless you have a large wallet and a serious addiction to LoveFilm. But that's another matter. ;)

Cosmo
12-04-2011, 21:02
Thanks for the responses.
And Chris yeah I see what you are getting at, but that was just example as its the max I could do in that time.

The real relevance of my question goes out to Steam. I have about 30GB of games I am yet to download and whenever I download 1 that is about 4GB in 1 day in off-peak, sky would throttle my speed for 10 days claiming that I shouldn't go over 1.2GB/d (which means I could never reach my monthly allowance of 40GB without punishment - but thats bullsh*t on a completely different level).

In more realistic terms, would they punish me for downloading say 3 to 5GB per day in off-peak?

Chris
12-04-2011, 21:57
Highly unlikely .... though I am a light downloader these days, I went through a phase of fairly hammering my Virgin ADSL connection to the tune of 50-60GB a month (no mean feat when the best speed I can get is about 2.5mbps). I never saw any evidence of being throttled and I never had any AUP warnings.

DABhand
12-04-2011, 21:58
There is no limit on how much you can download; but during the daytime your speed will be reduced if you download over a certain usage. However this doesn't stop you from downloading, just slows it down.

I've never heard of the issues that DAB claims, but i'm sure if you was torrenting thousands and thousands of GBs per month you could possibly get a warning.

There has been cases but not as of late, so it may be they have changed the policy perhaps.

Some people where calling and asking what the amount was, some got different answers when they called, the lowest I saw was 8GB in 6hrs. Of course there was higher amounts also in a similar time frame.

Here is a couple of links

http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Up-to-50Mb-broadband/50-mb-unlimited/m-p/383879/highlight/true#M40930

http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Up-to-50Mb-broadband/Complaint-about-using-too-much-bandwidth-on-quot-unlimited-quot/m-p/168636/highlight/true#M21227

http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Up-to-50Mb-broadband/Detrimental-Usage-Policy-Discussion-Thread/m-p/247501/highlight/true#M28830

The last one is from Mark a forum staff member (not VM staff) who claims 350GB in a 28 day period is excessive. Which equates to, by using dirty maths, about 14GB per day?

With people purchasing games legally through digital means like Steam, Direct2Drive and of course other media from Ilovefilms and using Iplayer etc. It is not that hard to reach that limit.

Even with the DUP in place and VM's legal loopholes on the matter, OFCOM should make them not use the word unlimited anymore as even with a sub-note on the word and pointing to the DUP it is still misleading.

Chris
12-04-2011, 22:01
All three of those discussions relate to users on the 50Mb cable broadband product. The query in this thread relates to ADSL, which is governed by an entirely different set of policies. Are you sure this is relevant?

Peter_
12-04-2011, 22:05
There has been cases but not as of late, so it may be they have changed the policy perhaps.

Some people where calling and asking what the amount was, some got different answers when they called, the lowest I saw was 8GB in 6hrs. Of course there was higher amounts also in a similar time frame.

Here is a couple of links

http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Up-to-50Mb-broadband/50-mb-unlimited/m-p/383879/highlight/true#M40930

http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Up-to-50Mb-broadband/Complaint-about-using-too-much-bandwidth-on-quot-unlimited-quot/m-p/168636/highlight/true#M21227

http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Up-to-50Mb-broadband/Detrimental-Usage-Policy-Discussion-Thread/m-p/247501/highlight/true#M28830

The last one is from Mark a forum staff member (not VM staff) who claims 350GB in a 28 day period is excessive. Which equates to, by using dirty maths, about 14GB per day?

With people purchasing games legally through digital means like Steam, Direct2Drive and of course other media from Ilovefilms and using Iplayer etc. It is not that hard to reach that limit.

Even with the DUP in place and VM's legal loopholes on the matter, OFCOM should make them not use the word unlimited anymore as even with a sub-note on the word and pointing to the DUP it is still misleading.
Mark Wilkin is the Forum Manager and therefore a member of Virginmedia staff just like me.

Everything you have pointed out are allowed under OFCOM regulations but have absolutely no bearing on an ADSL Virgin National connection which has already been pointed out to you.

DABhand
12-04-2011, 22:11
I was assuming that possibly the limit may have been global per say. No idea Mark was a VM staff member, he is listed as something else on the forum so was easy to misinterpret.

Chris
12-04-2011, 22:13
Managing loads on ADSL is a different skill than it is on cable ... and the costs of serving customers over ADSL are also different. The two products are very different, hence their different T&Cs.

Cosmo
12-04-2011, 22:16
Thanks for the interest Masque...

Is there some kind of guidance to how much I could download between Midnight and the beginning of peak time everyday? Do you even monitor how much data is moved during the night and in the morning?

Thanks,
Cosmo

---------- Post added at 21:16 ---------- Previous post was at 21:14 ----------

Managing loads on ADSL is a different skill than it is on cable ... and the costs of serving customers over ADSL are also different. The two products are very different, hence their different T&Cs.

Does that mean I could expect a similar treatment to what Sky give me, as their T&Cs are identical to Virgin National's, though neither say they will punish for off-peak downloading (despite the fact Sky does)?

Peter_
12-04-2011, 22:17
I was assuming that possibly the limit may have been global per say. No idea Mark was a VM staff member, he is listed as something else on the forum so was easy to misinterpret.
Yes Forum Manager but still staff.

The is no real information on the Virgin National traffic management page.

http://www.virgin.net/allyours/faqs/trafficManagementFAQ.html

---------- Post added at 21:17 ---------- Previous post was at 21:16 ----------

Thanks for the interest Masque...

Is there some kind of guidance to how much I could download between Midnight and the beginning of peak time everyday? Do you even monitor how much data is moved during the night and in the morning?


See above, I have no idea at all with regards Virgin National

dilli-theclaw
12-04-2011, 22:48
All I know is that I have downloaded far more than 10 - 15gb in day for well over a week on the trot (after my last reinstall). Using both steam and EA download manager.

And average at least 300gb a month + and not had a problem.

There was a time when it all (the adsl) wasn't working ok but since they sorted my line out it's been ok and I get my 6.2mb ok now.

Off peak that is ;)

Peak times are still pretty poor.

Cosmo
12-04-2011, 22:53
Peak times are still pretty poor.

Do you mean your speeds at peak time are pretty poor.. as in.. less than normal as a result of excessive downloading out of peak time, or just on average poor?

dilli-theclaw
12-04-2011, 22:57
Well I seem to go from 800k/s to 100k/s on a night from 4pm to 10pm ish.

I don't know if that's just too man people on around here or because of my downloading. But I've never had an email from VM telling me to behave.

Cosmo
12-04-2011, 23:02
Hmm thats more than they say you will get as a result of traffic shaping, so that may well just be a busy network... some promising figures there dilligaf, thanks.

Cosmo
19-04-2011, 18:17
Hi Ashley, (<<< That's me, Cosmo)

Thanks for your e-mail to Virgin Media about the details of the
Broadband package that you'll get.

We’re happy to hear that you've decided to subscribe for the Virgin
Media Broadband size XL package.

We can confirm that the Broadband size XL package includes the unlimited
download usage. This means you don't have to worry about the download
limit of the Broadband service.

We assure that you can download as much as you want without being
traffic shaped. Your monthly and daily data usage is unlimited. This
means you don't have to worry about the files that you're downloading
from the internet.
__________________________________________________ __________

An interesting email... Evidently this is not entirely true, but I'm now very excited :D.