View Full Version : "Detrimental Use of your Broadband Connection" - Second Warning!
In October last year I received an email stating that a large amount of data was being transferred over my connection and that it was having a detrimental effect to users in my area. To be fair I was guilty of heavy use so like a good boy I set up my download software to throttle back from 50Mb to 15Mb if I was downloading between 9am and 9pm.
Today I got another email saying that my broadband activity is still having a detrimental effect to users in my area!
Can VM really claim I’m in breach of the AUP when I’m only downloading at 15Mb?
MovedGoalPosts
22-02-2011, 23:50
Is it just downloading or upload too?
Is it just downloading or upload too?
Just downloading
qasdfdsaq
23-02-2011, 00:02
Most ISPs budget for their users consuming on average 3% or less of their available bandwidth at peak times. The fact that you're 30% - or at least ten times more than average means yes, they can hit you with detrimental use letters.
Technically, they can hit you with a detrimental use letter for whatever usage level they want, but in practice it's not how fast you download but how much you download during peak times. VM say on average, letters are sent out to those downloading more than 350GB a month during the day. That's 4.4% the theoretical maximum of your connection, so still several times over what is budgeted for.
Technically, they can hit you with a detrimental use letter for whatever usage level they want, but in practice it's not how fast you download but how much you download during peak times.
But the email makes does not refer to how much I d/l at peak times but says
"Unfortunately, it looks like your broadband activity is still having a detrimental impact and therefore you are in breach of our Acceptable Use Policy."
So VM are claiming that d/l at 30 % of my max speed is having an adverse impact to other users and THAT is why they are threatening to take further action.
Also my usage is not 30%, but 30% at the times I am d/l - which is not the entire 9am - 9pm period! Other times it will be 0%.
love2learn
23-02-2011, 07:15
I've had this letter once before also. Can anyone tell me what times it's ok to max my connection out? I'm not happy with their AUP, but they're the only company offering fibre optic in my area, so I have to lump it till BT eventually sort my area out.
techguyone
23-02-2011, 08:32
I must be such a light user it's unreal. I almost never go over 30 GB/Month. In fact looking at my records which go back over several years my max is : 63.6GB in Dec 08
How the heck can someone use 300+ GB in a month? I don't even think I've got 300 GB free disk space to store whatever I'd d/loaded, let alone have the time to look at it all.
(My 63 GB high was with 2x users running SL continually, plus hefty P2P d/loading at the time)
haydnwalker
23-02-2011, 09:23
But the email makes does not refer to how much I d/l at peak times but says
"Unfortunately, it looks like your broadband activity is still having a detrimental impact and therefore you are in breach of our Acceptable Use Policy."
So VM are claiming that d/l at 30 % of my max speed is having an adverse impact to other users and THAT is why they are threatening to take further action.
Also my usage is not 30%, but 30% at the times I am d/l - which is not the entire 9am - 9pm period! Other times it will be 0%.
As has previously been quoted, it isnt the SPEED you download at, but the AMOUNT OF DATA TRANSFERRED over the connection during those times.
Why don't you change your download patterns to 9pm-6am or something, which is out of peak times...?
love2learn
23-02-2011, 09:23
I must be such a light user it's unreal. I almost never go over 30 GB/Month. In fact looking at my records which go back over several years my max is : 63.6GB in Dec 08
How the heck can someone use 300+ GB in a month? I don't even think I've got 300 GB free disk space to store whatever I'd d/loaded, let alone have the time to look at it all.
(My 63 GB high was with 2x users running SL continually, plus hefty P2P d/loading at the time)
If the user should, let’s say download all the seasons of a few popular TV shows... then they could feasibly go over 300GB per month. And with HD content on the rise, it's even more likely to exceed that amount. The service should be advertised as limited during peak times, unlimited off peak. That would be fair and transparent. The problem is the whole industry uses the term "unlimited" too loosely that it requires the industry terms to be regulated more effectively.
haydnwalker
23-02-2011, 09:30
Or he/she could go to an ISP that has transparent limits :)
I must be such a light user it's unreal. I almost never go over 30 GB/Month. In fact looking at my records which go back over several years my max is : 63.6GB in Dec 08
How the heck can someone use 300+ GB in a month? I don't even think I've got 300 GB free disk space to store whatever I'd d/loaded, let alone have the time to look at it all.
(My 63 GB high was with 2x users running SL continually, plus hefty P2P d/loading at the time)
1gb = about 20 minutes of HD content (720p) so 300gb is only 100 hours of TV
Also if a BR film is downloaded at 1080p then that's about 10gb+ on it's own
haydnwalker
23-02-2011, 09:34
1gb = about 20 minutes of HD content (720p) so 300gb is only 100 hours of TV
Also if a BR film is downloaded at 1080p then that's about 10gb+ on it's own
Which is why I very rarely download HD content :) SD is perfectly adequate for my eyes :)
love2learn
23-02-2011, 10:36
Which is why I very rarely download HD content :) SD is perfectly adequate for my eyes :)
In your case, the service is absolutely fine for your usage habits. We were answering the question of how someone could go over 300+ GB. That's how they could go over it m8.
I personally like Virgin Media's internet service. I just don't like the traffic shaping when they advertise it as unlimited. Sure they say they allow you to download as much as you like. But they also send warning letters out to people who try to do exactly that. So in my opinion, that's not clear and transparent advertising of a product.
I would love to move to another provider who doesn't traffic shape and doesn't send warning letters out when their product is advertised as unlimited. But unfortunately the location of my house allows me only 3Meg broadband over BT's aging copper wire telephone network, so I'm stuck with Virgin until the Government eventually force BT to allow competitor’s access to their Fibre to the Cabinet network.
With that said I wouldn't even go to BT Infinity (FTTC) if it was available at my local exchange as they have an unofficial 300GB usage limit on their "Unlimited" infinity product. Which they don't advise in the terms and conditions at all, but openly admit over the telephone if pushed. After which, they throttle and traffic shape the connection.
I think its pointless offering higher and higher internet connection speeds when eventually they are all traffic managed. "It's like giving an excited kid a cake, but telling them they aren't allowed to eat it all."
As has previously been quoted, it isnt the SPEED you download at, but the AMOUNT OF DATA TRANSFERRED over the connection during those times.
Why don't you change your download patterns to 9pm-6am or something, which is out of peak times...?
Of course I can do that but you miss my point. There is a lot of useful info in this thread about ISP budgets of 3%, peak d/l limits of 350GB month etc. My point is that I was unaware of any of this as is not advertised or part of the AUP as written.
My email only makes reference to my usage having a 'detrimental impact'.
So how many letters do you get before "action" is taken
qasdfdsaq
23-02-2011, 10:59
1gb = about 20 minutes of HD content (720p) so 300gb is only 100 hours of TV
Also if a BR film is downloaded at 1080p then that's about 10gb+ on it's own
Depending on quality (particularly with streaming services ala Youtube and iPlayer) 1GB could be as much as 1-2 hours of 720p content.
A BR film however is typically 20-45GB each, some even more. A standard BR disk is 25GB or 50GB but not all the space is used.
That said I don't know of any legal services to download full blurays, if there was one I'd be all over it. In Europe we barely have any 720p legal streaming services at it is, let alone 1080p or naked bluray.
---------- Post added at 10:59 ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 ----------
But the email makes does not refer to how much I d/l at peak times but says
"Unfortunately, it looks like your broadband activity is still having a detrimental impact and therefore you are in breach of our Acceptable Use Policy."
So VM are claiming that d/l at 30 % of my max speed is having an adverse impact to other users and THAT is why they are threatening to take further action.
Also my usage is not 30%, but 30% at the times I am d/l - which is not the entire 9am - 9pm period! Other times it will be 0%.
Like I said, VM can use whatever measure they want to say you are having a detrimental impact, and whatever threshold of detrimental impact they want. In practice, as they have said themselves, it's the amount you download they use to determine detrimental impact. 350GB per month between 9am and 9pm is what they "typically" use.
They are claiming that downloading at several times your allocated fair share, continuously, is having a detrimental impact. The speed at which you do it does not matter to them. 5 hours at 10mb is the same as 1 hour at 50mb far as they're concerned. Like they suggested, move your downloading outside the daytime period or moderate it, your choice. Doing the same amount of downloading at a slower speed still does the same amount of downloading.
So how many letters do you get before "action" is taken
Seems two. This is my second letter and threatens:
"If your broadband usage doesn't reduce during these hours, we'll have to temporarily suspend or disconnect your services and we might not be able to let you know beforehand."
:erm:
I can't see it happening, India would probably send out a tech to swap the modem if you called up!
love2learn
23-02-2011, 12:46
I can't see it happening, India would probably send out a tech to swap the modem if you called up!
I have to agree with that. I called up about a speed issue and they sent me 2 modems. I ended up with 3 all in total. The original and the two they sent and still had the problem. In the end the Scottish Be Cogent centre advised me it was due to a planned upgrade to Docsis 3.0 on my UBR. Took several phone calls to find that out in the end. Virgin Media India = Useless. I have nothing against India, I actually live in the South of India at the moment. I just think they need more help from the UK guys... they should send some UK guys over to do some side by side coaching ;-)
Let's keep on topic, shall we?
DavidT99
24-02-2011, 16:23
I have to agree with that. I called up about a speed issue and they sent me 2 modems. I ended up with 3 all in total. The original and the two they sent and still had the problem. In the end the Scottish Be Cogent centre advised me it was due to a planned upgrade to Docsis 3.0 on my UBR. Took several phone calls to find that out in the end. Virgin Media India = Useless. I have nothing against India, I actually live in the South of India at the moment. I just think they need more help from the UK guys... they should send some UK guys over to do some side by side coaching ;-)
Or just use UK based call centres and give us a the service we are paying for.
David
love2learn
24-02-2011, 18:09
Or just use UK based call centres and give us a the service we are paying for.
David
I like you prefer UK call centres. But I also know that out sourced call centres will always be used as they save money, unless a mass exodus of customer leave for pastures new and state the reason for leaving as the Indian call centres. They aren't going anywhere. If all the companies are using them, then by not using them a company might conceivably have to put costs up as overheads will be higher.
So if they aren't going anywhere, then they should look at improving them. I have actual experience of this, as I'm currently typing this from India at the moment as I work over here as a manger in an outsourced call centre believe it or not.
Hypocrite I hear people say? No, I prefer UK call centres as they are easier to deal with usually. However I have seen some call centres here absolutely put the UK to shame in terms of quality of service and getting things done right first time. The reason I have such a low opinion of Virgin Media's call centre in India is through personal experience of dealing with it. Never mind getting it right first time, or second time or 3rd time for that matter. I now just hang the phone up anytime I get them, as I'd be better asking for my dog to help me with a connection issue. I can tell right away it's not managed affectively. The call centre I work in constantly gets top of customer satisfaction surveys. I wonder if Virgin Media can say the same for their call centre in India. Hell no...
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