View Full Version : Why do people not know this.....
Having recently watched a few episodes of "Pointless," (a bit like Family Fortunes but in reverse) on BBC Two, I was surprise, nay astounded, that so many people don't the answers to some very obvious questions. Like, for example, only sixty eight people knew that Britain were combatants in the First World War, or that only four people knew that they were involved in the Napoleonic Wars. When asked about Shakespeare plays with names in the title, only fifty-four people could name Romeo and Juliet. Do people not read anymore, do they leave school and ignore the rest of the world around them?
Was The Battle of Hastings and 1066 mentioned?
Well I personally don't know much about Britain in the wars as I wasnt much in to history at school. I preffered geography.
We only studied two Shakespeare books at school, "Romeo and Juliet" and "Macbeth".
So I can only name two. Wasn't there one called King Henry 4th or something?.
But surely you know that Britain was involved in both world wars, don't you?
I suppose it's all down to relevance .Is shakespeare relavent to people not working in a field that would require it .The same goes for a lot of subjects that have been removed from the curriculum to make way for new subjects like I.T
I knew they were involved in the 1st World War but not the Napoleanic war.
I can't see this being a school issue, to be honest. I appreciate that schools can't teach everything, but how can people go through life not hearing about the two world wars, or not hearing about Romeo and Juliet?
I can't see this being a school issue, to be honest. I appreciate that schools can't teach everything, but how can people go through life not hearing about the two world wars, or not hearing about Romeo and Juliet?
It all depends on a persons lifestyle ,do they grow up in a surrounding that would bring them into contact with such subjects .I daresay that there are subjects some feel is strange that they know but others don't .Sometimes i feel that some questions asked on this forum are plain stupid and often think why don't people already know this ,but you have to sit back and realise that those peoples area of education is totally diffferent to mine
I think part of the reason may be that reading for pleasure (both fiction and non-fiction) has taken second (or third) place to TV and the intraweeb; I like TV and the web, but love reading (I don't think there is any such thing as useless knowledge - the more we know about the world, the better we can understand it, and why things/people happen/behave as they do).
Reading was my escape mechanism as a child, and luckily the love of books has stayed with me, and my wife and I have passed this on to our children (they had DVDs and CDs for Christmas, but had also asked for a couple of books each) - if people aren't brought up that way, they will not (normally) have an extended view of the world beyond which they need for day to day life (imho).
I think part of the reason may be that reading for pleasure (both fiction and non-fiction) has taken second (or third) place to TV and the intraweeb; I like TV and the web, but love reading (I don't think there is any such thing as useless knowledge - the more we know about the world, the better we can understand it, and why things/people happen/behave as they do).
Reading was my escape mechanism as a child, and luckily the love of books has stayed with me, and my wife and I have passed this on to our children (they had DVDs and CDs for Christmas, but had also asked for a couple of books each) - if people aren't brought up that way, they will not (normally) have an extended view of the world beyond which they need for day to day life (imho).
I quite agree Hugh ,a good example is me and my wife .I grew up in a environment where education was pushed on us ,I always got books for Christmas/birthdays ,we used to watch plenty of documentaries on tv (only 3 channels then) so i have a greater general knowledge than my wife who wasn't encouraged in education and now there is much wailing and gnashing of teeth when i want to watch a program on the discovery channel
Mr_love_monkey
30-12-2010, 12:50
(I don't think there is any such thing as useless knowledge - the more we know about the world).
You've obviously never heard one of my interesting conversations then, full of little known facts :)
I think reading has a lot to do with it, but it's also personal interest - I like to think I have a good general knowledge of lots of areas, alot of which came about from devouring books from a very early age, but History & Geography (and sport for that matter) - hold no interest for me at all - and my knowledge there is severely lacking to the point where it's almost shameful.
I suppose it's all down to relevance .Is shakespeare relavent to people not working in a field that would require it .The same goes for a lot of subjects that have been removed from the curriculum to make way for new subjects like I.T
This, I think, is the problem. Schools these days teach to a narrow curriculum with the aim of hitting a Government target. There is less time for broad study and encouraging pupils to be curious and self-motivated to go beyond what is necessary to pass the next test.
So long as we use our education system as a machine for turning out employable drones, we will live in a society where people are ignorant of anything beyond their own narrow specialism.
Shakespeare, incidentally, is extremely relevant to everyone, regardless of whether they 'require it' for their job. I could go on at great length to explain why but I don't want to drag things right off topic ...
Mr_love_monkey
30-12-2010, 13:08
Shakespeare, incidentally, is extremely relevant to everyone, regardless of whether they 'require it' for their job. I could go on at great length to explain why but I don't want to drag things right off topic ...
Shakespeare? bah! - it's just full of cliches :)
This, I think, is the problem. Schools these days teach to a narrow curriculum with the aim of hitting a Government target. There is less time for broad study and encouraging pupils to be curious and self-motivated to go beyond what is necessary to pass the next test.
So long as we use our education system as a machine for turning out employable drones, we will live in a society where people are ignorant of anything beyond their own narrow specialism.
Shakespeare, incidentally, is extremely relevant to everyone, regardless of whether they 'require it' for their job. I could go on at great length to explain why but I don't want to drag things right off topic ...
Perhaps Maggy can comment best, but there seems to be a lot of truth in this. Certainly judging by the recent complaints by universities that the current A levels are nearer in difficulty to the old O levels, simply based on the lack of depth of knowledge in any particular subject.
"General Knowledge" doesn't seem so general these days...none of the family next door knew that caterpillars turn into butterflies or moths, that "a half" was the same as "50%" or "0.5", or that cornflakes are made of corn!!!
Actually martyh,Chris,Mr LM,Hugh have all got it completely correct between them.
Broke my heart earlier this year trying to get one 12 year old to get a book out of the school library because 'reading is boring'.
I couldn't change her mind at all.
But then when I inquired, her parents didn't read and there were no books in her house.
Reading is actually encouraged by a good example.It is a fact that if both parents read then the children will read for pleasure and information as well.
Shakespeare, incidentally, is extremely relevant to everyone, regardless of whether they 'require it' for their job. I could go on at great length to explain why but I don't want to drag things right off topic ...
Why would be an interesting conversation though. What aspects of Shakespeare are relevant now? Is it the themes in his plays? His use of language? The former can be found in many other works and the latter isn't entirely relevant to 'everyone' and can also be explored in other works?
I have never understood the deep reverence Shakespeare has in eduction. Over the course of my time in school I had read Othello, Macbeth and Romeo and Juliet. It's seemed to be very heavily favoured by the curriculum yet there was no mention of a lot of other famous books/works. No Dickens, No American literature, etc. It's not that I don't think it's important, and I imagine if you were a playwright, screenwriter or a novelist his plays would be very important, but for the majority of people I think it's given so much attention at the expense of other things.
One of my lasting memories as a child was getting a copy Tom Sawer in a red and gold embossed hard back cover, the smell and feel of the book was wonderfull.That's part of the joy of reading for me ,the feel of a good quality book ,nowadays some kids want to know how to turn it on
One of my lasting memories as a child was getting a copy Tom Sawer in a red and gold embossed hard back cover, the smell and feel of the book was wonderfull.That's part of the joy of reading for me ,the feel of a good quality book ,nowadays some kids want to know how to turn it on
It may be a Kindle ;)
It may be a Kindle ;)
HA,HA very funny:rolleyes:;)
Why would be an interesting conversation though. What aspects of Shakespeare are relevant now? Is it the themes in his plays? His use of language? The former can be found in many other works and the latter isn't entirely relevant to 'everyone' and can also be explored in other works?
I have never understood the reverence Shakespeare in eduction. Over the course of my time in school I had read Othello, Macbeth and Romeo and Juliet. It's seemed to be very heavily favoured by the curriculum yet there was no mention of a lot of other famous books/works. No Dickens, No American literature, etc.
Shakespeare's works aren't just examples of certain themes. They are often the earliest examples of those themes being dealt with in the English language. Shakespeare arguably set the structure for modern English in the same way that Samuel Johnson's dictionary set the definitions of it. The reasons why we say things in the way that we say them are often to be found in his plays - and the way we speak about subjects helps to define the way we think about them.
Shakespeare remains important because his works are foundational to the whole of our language and culture. To engage with his work is to engage with those foundations. And an understanding of the foundations leads to a better understanding of the whole building. (This, incidentally, is the same argument that is often made for a revival in Latin teaching in schools).
"Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world."
– Albert Einstein
Delta Whiskey
30-12-2010, 15:58
When I was in school in the 1960's, History finished at the turn of the 1900's with the death of Victoria. I learned all about the three field system of crop rotation and the Roman occupation but nothing of either World Wars. Neither of my parents or my siblings read books but I seemed to pick up the habit from somewhere. Perhaps it was curiosity, the need to know about the world around me. I'm still a voracious reader, sometimes having up to four books on the go at any one time. Now I have a Kindle, it's far easier to find time for reading during the day.
"General Knowledge" doesn't seem so general these days...none of the family next door knew that caterpillars turn into butterflies or moths, that "a half" was the same as "50%" or "0.5", or that cornflakes are made of corn!!!
The mind just boggles as to what they thought it was made of. :eek:
The mind just boggles as to what they thought it was made of. :eek:
What are Uncle Joes Mint Balls made of? :D
Having recently watched a few episodes of "Pointless," (a bit like Family Fortunes but in reverse) on BBC Two, I was surprise, nay astounded, that so many people don't the answers to some very obvious questions. Like, for example, only sixty eight people knew that Britain were combatants in the First World War, or that only four people knew that they were involved in the Napoleonic Wars. When asked about Shakespeare plays with names in the title, only fifty-four people could name Romeo and Juliet. Do people not read anymore, do they leave school and ignore the rest of the world around them?
Being the well-travelled, knowledgeable and intellectual person you clearly are, I'd have thought you'd have used a bit more understanding.
Perhaps some people just didn't pay attention in school, or had learning difficulties
only four people knew that they were involved in the Napoleonic Wars
This one is hardly a surprise.
The Napoleonic Wars are not something generally talked about unless you specifically did that period in History. I could have took a good guess, but thats all it would have been.
This one is hardly a surprise.
The Napoleonic Wars are not something generally talked about unless you specifically did that period in History. I could have took a good guess, but thats all it would have been.
I do know that Sharp was in it ;)
papa smurf
30-12-2010, 16:54
I do know that Sharp was in it ;)
and possibly Napoleon :)
I do know that Sharp was in it ;)
I thought it was Sean Bean.
Download Failed (1)
I thought it was Sean Bean.
http://files.myopera.com/CthulhuSaves/blog/Sharpe.jpg
No, that was the Shakespearean adaptation :shrug:
Do people not read any more, do they leave school and ignore the rest of the world around them?
Actually Believe it or not, this is (in fact) a very common medical affliction that many people (of all ages) suffer from - medical journals refer to this condition by an acronym - TAPS, I.e.:
Thick As Pig S***.
Assume this clarifies sufficiently?.
Si thee :Sprint:
"Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world."
– Albert Einstein
"Not ignorance, but ignorance of ignorance, is the death of knowledge"
And a more apt one, imho - "Fools act on imagination without knowledge, pedants act on knowledge without imagination"
- Alfred North Whitehead.
multiskilled
30-12-2010, 17:25
If it is the opposite of family fortunes ie get the answer with least number of replies.The people asked may have had to only give one option ie WW2, this does mean that they did not know that Britain was also involved in WW1 or the Napoleonic wars.
"Not ignorance, but ignorance of ignorance, is the death of knowledge"
And a more apt one, imho - "Fools act on imagination without knowledge, pedants act on knowledge without imagination"
- Alfred North Whitehead.
"It is possible to store the mind with a million facts and still be entirely uneducated."
- Alec Bourne.
Even the most educated can lack even the most basic level of common sense
- Ooogemaflop, Just now...
ChrisLUFC22
30-12-2010, 19:45
I consider mesen quite gud educate, im sertinly no ficko...
Joking apart, the problem nowadays is kids get away with far too much and if they don't want to learn there's not a right lot teachers can do without it breaching Human Rights (urgh).
I do feel sorry for teachers, actually. There's no way in Hell I'd be able to put up with the back chat.
"It is possible to store the mind with a million facts and still be entirely uneducated."
- Alec Bourne.
Gynaecologists - reknowned for their shining wit.....:D
Strangely, I got to the age of 37 without reading anything by Shakespeare and my only contact with him is through films that were based on his works ;) and I am a perfectly happy person :D
Though I do know Britain was involved in the 1st world war, the Napoleonic wars and a few others.
It's strange how different subjects interest different people... :)
No, that was the Shakespearean adaptation :shrug:
I have heard of his sister (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pC3VJA_CB8).;)
and possibly Napoleon :)
And it also featured a certain Wellington chappie as well.Went on to be PM.
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Anyway Shakespeare's plays are a cracking good stories by anyone's standards and if he were alive now he'd be turning out some terrific films.:tu:
Waldo Pepper
30-12-2010, 21:14
Actually Believe it or not, this is (in fact) a very common medical affliction that many people (of all ages) suffer from - medical journals refer to this condition by an acronym - TAPS, I.e.:
Thick As Pig S***.
Assume this clarifies sufficiently?.
Si thee :Sprint:
I went to a basic school in the 70's. We were not taught anything about Shakespeare, WW1 or WW2. We were taught how to learn which was far more important than learning specifics. Keeping your ears open!
I agree with the above - most are just simple TAPS.
I recently bought my pa the "Complete WW2 in Colour" on DVD. The checkout sprout ~30 asked me if anyone dies in it, Yeh the odd one I replied. It was fiction but Steven Seagal plays a good part. I really couldn't be bothered with anything else.
That's why at 30 he is operating a checkout!
LondonRoad
31-12-2010, 00:11
And it also featured a certain Wellington chappie as well.Went on to be PM.
Didn't they also call something after him..... was it a sandwich or Macintosh ... it'll come to me in a minute ;)
TheDaddy
31-12-2010, 01:04
Didn't they also call something after him..... was it a sandwich or Macintosh ... it'll come to me in a minute ;)
I know this one, beef wellington...
Being the well-travelled, knowledgeable and intellectual person you clearly are, I'd have thought you'd have used a bit more understanding.
Perhaps some people just didn't pay attention in school, or had learning difficulties
But like I said, this is not a school issue. It is impossible to teach every piece of history that ever was. I saw another episode that asked about countries that drove on the left hand side of the road. Only half of those asked chose the United Kingdom.
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If it is the opposite of family fortunes ie get the answer with least number of replies.The people asked may have had to only give one option ie WW2, this does mean that they did not know that Britain was also involved in WW1 or the Napoleonic wars.
They give one hundred people one hundred seconds to chose as many as possible from the list given.
---------- Post added at 12:29 ---------- Previous post was at 12:27 ----------
I consider mesen quite gud educate, im sertinly no ficko...
Joking apart, the problem nowadays is kids get away with far too much and if they don't want to learn there's not a right lot teachers can do without it breaching Human Rights (urgh).
I do feel sorry for teachers, actually. There's no way in Hell I'd be able to put up with the back chat.
How is providing an education against someone's human rights?
It is not just "kids" who have ths problem. It cuts across the generational divide.
---------- Post added at 12:34 ---------- Previous post was at 12:29 ----------
Strangely, I got to the age of 37 without reading anything by Shakespeare and my only contact with him is through films that were based on his works ;) and I am a perfectly happy person :D
Though I do know Britain was involved in the 1st world war, the Napoleonic wars and a few others.
It's strange how different subjects interest different people... :)
But one does not need to have read Shakespeare to know he wrote plays such as Romeo and Juliet, MacBeth or Hamlet. I haven't gotten round to reading "The Cherry Orchard," but I know it was written by Chekov. I don't watch football (I'd rather watch paint dry ;)), but I know Wayne Rooney plays for Manchester Untied.
---------- Post added at 12:36 ---------- Previous post was at 12:34 ----------
And it also featured a certain Wellington chappie as well.Went on to be PM.
---------- Post added at 20:56 ---------- Previous post was at 20:50 ----------
Anyway Shakespeare's plays are a cracking good stories by anyone's standards and if he were alive now he'd be turning out some terrific films.:tu:
It has been said he would have been the Spielberg/Lee/Attenborough of his day.
---------- Post added at 12:39 ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 ----------
I know this one, beef wellington...
Spot on. Fillet of beef, in a mushroom duxelle, foie gras and wrapped in puff pastry. :) Apparently to celebrate his victory at Talavera.
haydnwalker
31-12-2010, 14:01
...I haven't gotten round to reading "The Cherry Orchard," but I know it was written by Chekov...
WTF - I haven't heard of that book - I have heard of Chekov but didn't know he was an Author, I thought he was a musician?
Gimme Harry Potter anyday :)
And I'm officially well-educated by a real polytechnic university you know ;) (and no I didn't do "Media Studies" ;))
WTF - I haven't heard of that book - I have heard of Chekov but didn't know he was an Author, I thought he was a musician?
nah, he was the navigator on the Enterprise - didn't know he wrote books, though ;) :D
haydnwalker
31-12-2010, 14:09
nah, he was the navigator on the Enterprise - didn't know he wrote books, though ;) :D
:LOL: I forgot completely about that Chekov :)
Spot on. Fillet of beef, in a mushroom duxelle, foie gras and wrapped in puff pastry. :) Apparently to celebrate his victory at Talavera.
I thought he invented boots :shrug: ;)
I think we, as a society, are no longer interested in intelligence.
Think about it.
The London Planetarium closed was a great resource for us to learn about space. It was replaced by another 'sleb exhibition for Madame Tussauds. As if they didn't have enough celebs already. Thankfully, in that case, the director of the Greenwich Observatory thought the same as me, and the foundation running the Observatory spent millions building the Greenwich Planetarium to redress the balance.
When I was a kid, BBC, ITV and Channel 4 both carried at least a couple of hours of educations TV programmes each day. These have been replaced by programmes about selling stuff (BBC daytime), light magazine shows (ITV) and general entertainment (Channel 4). 5 seems to follow roughly the same pattern as ITV, but with more tabloid programmes.
There are also fewer actual documentaries (they tend to favour docu dramas now), and even though TV has never done a great job of explaining science, at least Tommorrow's World and Horizon made a good attempt. Bang Goes The Theory is so patronising and simplistic, it just makes me want to vomit.
The likes of the Discovery Channel do a good job of educating those who watch them, but unfortunately the kinds of people that need the education the most are not likely to spend any time watching those channels, preferring instead to watch Katie Price/Peter Andre/Kerry Katona/<insert name of celeb here> bitch about the media's intrusion in their life, and their latest antics.
But one does not need to have read Shakespeare to know he wrote plays such as Romeo and Juliet, MacBeth or Hamlet. I haven't gotten round to reading "The Cherry Orchard," but I know it was written by Chekov. I don't watch football (I'd rather watch paint dry ;)), but I know Wayne Rooney plays for Manchester UntiedThe thing is you quoted me like I was replying directly to you; which I wasn't.
After 2 and a half pages, the topic had slightly moved on and if it was aimed at anyone, it was probably Chris.
I had said that I knew about WW1 and I said that I was 37, so obviously I wasn't alive during the war, so I must have found out about it by other means ;)
Nah, they stopped making Deloreans years ago ;)
Unless they brought one "Back to the Future"!!!!
It's the way that you tell 'em ;)
Unless they brought one "Back to the Future"!!!!
If they did, guess they must have found one of these then:
21557
Si thee :Sprint:
I think we, as a society, are no longer interested in intelligence.
In some ways I think it is because some people now expect 'instant gratification' without having to expend too much effort.
The irony of people appearing to have less general knowledge despite the superior resources available, now, has intrigued me for a while.
- it seems even the effort of using google or wikipedia is too much for some people - let alone reading instructions or user guides.
However, just acquiring knowledge is not always sufficient
- one of my favourite anecdotes is the one that says..
'knowledge tells you a tomato is a fruit, not a vegetable, wisdom tells you not to use tomato in a fruit salad'
Mr_love_monkey
31-12-2010, 16:55
'knowledge tells you a tomato is a fruit, not a vegetable, wisdom tells you not to use tomato in a fruit salad'
ahh... that's where I've been going wrong...
In some ways I think it is because some people now expect 'instant gratification' without having to expend too much effort.
I've even seen it at work.
When I did my degree, we were told (repeatedly) that the intention behind our lecturer was to give us enough knowledge to go off and find out about computing related subjects ourselves. We were told if we attended all the lectures, and did all our work, we would know enough to pass the degree, but not to get a 1st.
The technicians on my degree would not help anyone beyond making sure that the software and hardware in the computing labs would work, and anyone who asked would actually get sent back to their seat.
Now, we get asked to give students help with actually doing their coursework, and on at least one occasion, technicians have had complaints put in about them when they refused to do a student's coursework. Thankfully, our boss has quite strict rules on how much help we can give them, as he still believes (as do I) that students attend University to learn (and earn a degree) rather than just get given degrees. The basics of those rules is that if we believe a student is asking us to do any part of their coursework, we are required to ask them to go and ask their lecturer, and to refuse to help them anymore.
Basically, the rule I follow is that I will help a student, but they have to be able to demonstrate that they have at least attempted to solve the problem themselves.
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ahh... that's where I've been going wrong...
I dread to think what you've been using Tomatoes for..
Mr_love_monkey
31-12-2010, 19:44
I dread to think what you've been using Tomatoes for..
Let me send you a link to my flickr page......
idi banashapan
31-12-2010, 21:44
In some ways I think it is because some people now expect 'instant gratification' without having to expend too much effort.
The irony of people appearing to have less general knowledge despite the superior resources available, now, has intrigued me for a while.
- it seems even the effort of using google or wikipedia is too much for some people - let alone reading instructions or user guides.
However, just acquiring knowledge is not always sufficient
- one of my favourite anecdotes is the one that says..
'knowledge tells you a tomato is a fruit, not a vegetable, wisdom tells you not to use tomato in a fruit salad'
people are not required to hold knowledge anymore as it's all at the press of a few buttons when it is needed. a lot of people won't read (even the net) to learn unless there is a direct need to look for something.
the internet is a massive knowledgebase and is easily accessible. why waste time trying to remember it all? all people need to know these days is how to search.
people are not required to hold knowledge anymore as it's all at the press of a few buttons when it is needed. a lot of people won't read (even the net) to learn unless there is a direct need to look for something.
the internet is a massive knowledgebase and is easily accessible. why waste time trying to remember it all? all people need to know these days is how to search.
That was my point, it seems to me that some people aren't even bothering to use the net?
sniper007
31-12-2010, 22:18
But surely you know that Britain was involved in both world wars, don't you?
In what way does this affect your life if say I didn't know this? Why does it bother you? What relevance does it have today that will impact mine or your lives, other than knowing it purely for the sake of history? Not a lot in my opinion. I hear a lot of these threads on forums. "I can't believe people don't know these things" bla bla bla. I....don't.....care.....what year the Battle of Britain occured. Nor details on many things in the past to be honest. This does not make me a bad person or poorly educated or of a lesser IQ. I just.....don't care to know information that is relatively useless to me. I put my efforts into learning things that are useful to me.
idi banashapan
31-12-2010, 22:22
That was my point, it seems to me that some people aren't even bothering to use the net?
and why would they if the knowledge in question is not going to benefit them in any way? let's face it, knowing Romeo And Juliet is not going to get them drunk any quicker on a weekend night, is it? knowing what year Samuel Barber wrote Adagio For Strings is not going to help them put more plastic from Halfords on their car either... if it doesn't benefit immediately, it's dismissed as useless info
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In what way does this affect your life if say I didn't know this? Why does it bother you? What relevance does it have today that will impact mine or your lives, other than knowing it purely for the sake of history? Not a lot in my opinion. I hear a lot of these threads on forums. "I can't believe people don't know these things" bla bla bla. I....don't.....care.....what year the Battle of Britain occured. Nor details on many things in the past to be honest. This does not make me a bad person or poorly educated or of a lesser IQ. I just.....don't care to know information that is relatively useless to me. I put my efforts into learning things that are useful to me.
lol - Q.E.D.
and why would they if the knowledge in question is not going to benefit them in any way? let's face it, knowing Romeo And Juliet is not going to get them drunk any quicker on a weekend night, is it? knowing what year Samuel Barber wrote Adagio For Strings is not going to help them put more plastic from Halfords on their car either... if it doesn't benefit immediately, it's dismissed as useless info[COLOR="Silver"]
Because it gives people a comprehensive 'overview' of where they are now, which includes the perspective of what went before - allowing them to form individual balanced opinions based on their own experience.
- rather than being led by the latest fashion/fad or emotive headline?
I think idi's question was somewhat rhetorical, gaz - as evidenced by his response to sniper, who demonstrated his point rather well, I think. ;)
I think idi's question was somewhat rhetorical, gaz - as evidenced by his response to sniper, who demonstrated his point rather well, I think. ;)
Perhaps it was, I didn't dismiss either response, but I would still assert that a 'general knowledge' of how the world works is a good thing to have - at the same time as conceding the details aren't as important as the concepts. :)
- it is having no inclination to be aware of either concept OR detail I was referring to :)
I fully agree with you (as I think Idi also would, where he not off partying somewhere...).
The problem with Sniper007's position is that, if he limits his acquisition of knowledge and experience only to those things he already knows he is going to need, he will be unprepared for many of the unexpected opportunities that life brings. A shame.
sniper007
31-12-2010, 23:10
I was not fully dismissing the past or being stubborn/ignorant/naieve about it's importance. Rather, I am purely stating that the majority of history and past events do not benefit anyone today in being able to remember dates of say wars and historical events. This is purely pub quiz faff of little benefit in day to day life.
Agreed, there's often little to be gained in simply parrotting '1066' when asked 'When was the Battle of Hastings?'. The point is, the date 1066 only exists in that sort of isolation when it comes up in a pub quiz. When such facts were learned by rote in school, they were accompanied by at least a cursory nod to the background and the context. The Norman invasion still has implications for modern English law and society, even 950 years later.
When such facts were learned by rote in school, they were accompanied by at least a cursory nod to the background and the context. The Norman invasion still has implications for modern English law and society, even 950 years later.
absolutely - the date isn't the thing we need to remember, slavishly, but the effect on our history subscribes to the context in which we find ourselves, today :)
I thought he invented boots :shrug: ;)
He didn't invent them, he merely popularised the wearing of them. ;)
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In what way does this affect your life if say I didn't know this? Why does it bother you? What relevance does it have today that will impact mine or your lives, other than knowing it purely for the sake of history? Not a lot in my opinion. I hear a lot of these threads on forums. "I can't believe people don't know these things" bla bla bla. I....don't.....care.....what year the Battle of Britain occured. Nor details on many things in the past to be honest. This does not make me a bad person or poorly educated or of a lesser IQ. I just.....don't care to know information that is relatively useless to me. I put my efforts into learning things that are useful to me.
How is history not useful to you?
---------- Post added at 17:37 ---------- Previous post was at 17:36 ----------
I was not fully dismissing the past or being stubborn/ignorant/naieve about it's importance. Rather, I am purely stating that the majority of history and past events do not benefit anyone today in being able to remember dates of say wars and historical events. This is purely pub quiz faff of little benefit in day to day life.
The important thing is not when exactly they happened, but why they happened.
Spot on. Fillet of beef, in a mushroom duxelle, foie gras and wrapped in puff pastry. :) Apparently to celebrate his victory at Talavera.
Strangely he wasn't a foodie and would eat whatever he was given..even rotten eggs on occasion
people are not required to hold knowledge anymore as it's all at the press of a few buttons when it is needed. a lot of people won't read (even the net) to learn unless there is a direct need to look for something.
the internet is a massive knowledgebase and is easily accessible. why waste time trying to remember it all? all people need to know these days is how to search.
That was my point, it seems to me that some people aren't even bothering to use the net?
Even if they do bother to look something up on the Internet, more often than not, they go to (or end up on) Wikipedia, which isn't always that accurate.
Not saying that Wikipedia is never accurate. It is a lot of the time, but it isn't always.
I went to a basic school in the 70's. We were not taught anything about Shakespeare, WW1 or WW2. We were taught how to learn which was far more important than learning specifics. Keeping your ears open!
I agree with the above - most are just simple TAPS.
I recently bought my pa the "Complete WW2 in Colour" on DVD. The checkout sprout ~30 asked me if anyone dies in it, Yeh the odd one I replied. It was fiction but Steven Seagal plays a good part. I really couldn't be bothered with anything else.
That's why at 30 he is operating a checkout!
At least he has a job. ;)
And were would the human race be today without Shakespeare and war? Let alone religion!
Well, Shakespeare added to the richness of the English Language (he is credited with creating over 2000 new words), and war accelerates the development of new technologies (at a cost, unfortunately).....
Ignitionnet
02-01-2011, 10:54
This, I think, is the problem. Schools these days teach to a narrow curriculum with the aim of hitting a Government target. There is less time for broad study and encouraging pupils to be curious and self-motivated to go beyond what is necessary to pass the next test.
So long as we use our education system as a machine for turning out employable drones, we will live in a society where people are ignorant of anything beyond their own narrow specialism.
Disagree, the education system is there purely to hit government targets, it fails abysmally to turn out employable drones as well ;)
I agree with the 'old school' on this one. Education should be broad initially, the case for specialism is debatable even at further level - note the International Baccalaureate's increased take up in some schools.
At some point we stopped caring as a society about how to think and education has been reduced it would seem to regurgitation of facts in a prescribed manner in order to achieve exam results which is of precisely no use at all in applying even that narrow knowledge in later life.
I totally agree with the thought that to know where you are and where you're going you need to know where you came from.
I also agree that as a society we seem to dislike intelligence now. Reverse snobbery seems to be the way forward now, with those who are intelligent, successful and actually think treated with disdain.
It's really quite odd and quite tragic. I myself will admit to dumbing down, I'm quite sure my vocabulary, spelling and grammar have become poorer. Unsure how we can expect the generation who didn't benefit from the education I did to manage when they've a lower level to be dumbed down from.
---------- Post added at 10:54 ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 ----------
Well, Shakespeare added to the richness of the English Language (he is credited with creating over 2000 new words), and war accelerates the development of new technologies (at a cost, unfortunately).....
Yes well modern society has destroyed much of that richness and replaced it with some rather curious new words :)
It would be interesting on your second point to see how many are aware of the most 'headline' grabbing war technology of recent times, the Manhattan Project and how many know that the UK was quite involved.
EDIT: Or indeed that UK consent was required, and given, for the nuclear bombing of Japan.
Re your last line, I hope this clarifies things - Quebec Agreement 1943 (http://www.atomicarchive.com/Docs/ManhattanProject/Quebec.shtml)
Ignitionnet
02-01-2011, 11:32
The official agreement between UK, USA and Canada to collaborate on Manhattan indeed.
I'm 50/50 on this. On one hand I do think schools today as Chris says, they are just geared up to pass exams, they are spoon fed the answers and they'll end up meeting the required targets, but when they leave school I suspect they will struggle with the simplest of things.
I was at the age when calculators were first introduced into schools and when they handed them out I thought wow, maths is now going to be easy. (And it was). I didn't leave school with many qualifications but maths was the only subject I did very well in. ( I won't say it was just down to calculators either).
After school I thought I was average at everything else that was till I found an interest in learning things I that I wanted to learn, so it was trips to the library, got the books I wanted and I've retained that knowledge since (And ended up with a lot more qualifications than I got from school). Today it is totally different, I see Hugh posting a link to the Manhattan project, which probably took all of 3-5 seconds to find, did he know anything about it beforehand (irrelevant)? Everyone today can Google exactly what they want to know, it's up you if it's for just a throwaway reply or just to learn and take in that knowledge.
I personally find that people do not need to know a lot today, what they want to know they will know, but they won't probably know it after 5 minutes have past. I won't say it's a bad thing but then again I also see that basic common sense and basic manners are also lacking today. When you see both of those lacking things put together in action (just step outside your door) you do have to wonder where it all went wrong.
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