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JPoll
10-10-2010, 10:28
Also...

Do you think there'll be a VIP100 deal?

And when TiVO launches I wonder what will happen with VIPs.

Confused much? I am. :confused:

Peter_
10-10-2010, 10:32
No one as yet has any idea of the launch date for 100Mb let alone the price at launch, but very likely as with 50Mb it will be released as a standalone package initially.

TiVo will likely be launched in a similar way to 50Mb as a standalone package at first as well.

adzii_nufc
10-10-2010, 10:33
Prices have not yet been announced so the only option is to speculate.

I wouldnt expect a ridiculous price though.

Should open the door for them to make 10mbps even cheaper to newcomers and low usage kind of people.

Id like a price range of 100mbps to be around the £38-48 mark

Peter_
10-10-2010, 10:35
Id like a price range of 100mbps to be around the £38-48 mark
AS 50Mb is around that price at present i rather doubt it.;)

Sirius
10-10-2010, 10:37
Also...

Do you think there'll be a VIP100 deal?

And when TiVO launches I wonder what will happen with VIPs.

Confused much? I am. :confused:

To be honest until the products are released it a waste of time speculating.

If we do start to speculate you can bet it will move from speculation to confirmed fact by the end of today with people demanding they get it by Monday or they will leave and go to SKY who they claim can provide the same product yesterday and at a third of the price . :D

adzii_nufc
10-10-2010, 10:37
AS 50Mb is around that price at present i rather doubt it.;)

Yeah but they could be generous and drop the price of 50Mb and use STM methods :)

leave and go to SKY who they claim can provide the same product yesterday and at a third of the price

Took sky long enough to reach 20mbps :P By the time we all get to 100mbps, Sky will release an 'Award Winning' massive speed of 24mbps!!

JPoll
10-10-2010, 10:41
To be honest until the products are released it a waste of time speculating.

If we do start to speculate you can bet it will move from speculation to confirmed fact by the end of today with people demanding they get it by Monday or they will leave and go to SKY who they claim can provide the same product yesterday and at a third of the price . :D

Crikey I suppose you're right.

Just getting my usual anxiety in regards to having new stuff but being in Belfast I expect we'll be one of the last areas to get the new kit. Looking on the bright side of that I can start saving my pennies to pay for it.... :rolleyes:

Ignitionnet
10-10-2010, 11:14
Took sky long enough to reach 20mbps :P By the time we all get to 100mbps, Sky will release an 'Award Winning' massive speed of 24mbps!!

40Mbps in a number of areas and 100Mbps in isolated areas should be available from Sky in the not too distant future.

---------- Post added at 10:14 ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 ----------

Yeah but they could be generous and drop the price of 50Mb and use STM methods :)

Unlikely on both counts but depends on what TalkTalk, Sky, O2 et al do with their 40Mbps services when they arrive and the prices they charge.

I don't really see how 50/5Mbps for 28GBP on top of line rental could be considered as requiring any kind of price drop though.

adzii_nufc
10-10-2010, 11:20
40Mbps in a number of areas and 100Mbps in isolated areas should be available from Sky in the not too distant future.

Maybe so but even then as you have said yourself 'Isolated'

Wheras Virgin can offer a higher number of Areas better speeds now and not in the near future.

But I suppose thats how it works with Sky when they spend most of their money dominating the TV market.

Ignitionnet
10-10-2010, 11:58
Maybe so but even then as you have said yourself 'Isolated'

Wheras Virgin can offer a higher number of Areas better speeds now and not in the near future.

But I suppose thats how it works with Sky when they spend most of their money dominating the TV market.

Nothing to do with that at all, Sky are using BT's network so are constrained by wherever BT release the product. No return for Sky or any other alternative operator on investing in their own fibre network right now.

Sirius may not have noticed but Virgin are already offering people deals on 50Mbps just from them uttering the magic words 'BT Infinity'.

RobboEdin
10-10-2010, 12:05
Nothing to do with that at all, Sky are using BT's network so are constrained by wherever BT release the product. No return for Sky or any other alternative operator on investing in their own fibre network right now.

Sirius may not have noticed but Virgin are already offering people deals on 50Mbps just from them uttering the magic words 'BT Infinity'.

Can you direct us towards evidence that this is the case?

Ignitionnet
10-10-2010, 12:23
Can you direct us towards evidence that this is the case?

30 seconds of searching on this forum later - http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12/33663909-50mb-install-free.html

pip08456
10-10-2010, 12:27
30 seconds of searching on this forum later - http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12/33663909-50mb-install-free.html

Trust you to drag me into it! :D:D:D:D

RobboEdin
10-10-2010, 13:11
30 seconds of searching on this forum later - http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12/33663909-50mb-install-free.html

Trust you to drag me into it! :D:D:D:D

Unless pip08456 can correct me, that thread shows no evidence of Virgin Media doing deals on 50Mb. That is the standard price available to all, new and old, as documented here:

http://shop.virginmedia.com/broadband/up-to-50mb.html

£38 for standalone BB XXL and £39.99 total for BB XXL and Phone M.

GhostMjr
10-10-2010, 14:27
No one as yet has any idea of the launch date for 100Mb let alone the price at launch, but very likely as with 50Mb it will be released as a standalone package initially.

TiVo will likely be launched in a similar way to 50Mb as a standalone package at first as well.

Engineer who visited and installed my 50mb yesterday said that my area on bromley exchange should be live by end of this year at the latest as its ready to go live.

colin25
10-10-2010, 14:28
No idea

Peter_
10-10-2010, 14:55
Engineer who visited and installed my 50mb yesterday said that my area on bromley exchange should be live by end of this year at the latest as its ready to go live.
We are already aware that 100Mb is due for rollout but until it is officially announced take what anyone says with a pinch of salt.

Ignitionnet
10-10-2010, 17:19
Unless pip08456 can correct me, that thread shows no evidence of Virgin Media doing deals on 50Mb. That is the standard price available to all, new and old, as documented here:

http://shop.virginmedia.com/broadband/up-to-50mb.html

£38 for standalone BB XXL and £39.99 total for BB XXL and Phone M.

Free install and activation.

RobboEdin
10-10-2010, 17:58
Free install and activation.

Indeed free installation and activation for new customers and only free installation for existing BB customers upgrading to BB XXL.

....but these are standard deals available to all.

Still waiting on information on your claims that deals are getting done if you mention BT Infinity!

Ignitionnet
10-10-2010, 18:16
Really?

No install, activation charge or contract extension is standard for upgrades from existing customers?

If that is the case I stand corrected, that's pretty good.

Damien
10-10-2010, 18:37
I would have thought that they would increase people's package across the line up, s0 50mb becomes 100mb, 20 becomes 50 and so on. Won't it be too complex to have another top range broadband package XXXL

Ignitionnet
10-10-2010, 18:56
I would have thought that they would increase people's package across the line up, s0 50mb becomes 100mb, 20 becomes 50 and so on. Won't it be too complex to have another top range broadband package XXXL

Neither of those will or could happen.

20->50 would require every XL customer to receive a new modem and most of them to receive a new router, 50->100 would require sending a new router, or more likely the new DOCSIS 3 hub, to every XXL customer.

UPC have 6 different packages (http://www.upc.nl/internet/), not including various 'grandfathered' packages that customers will still be on. Comhem Sweden have a few different packages with additional upstream options.

---------- Post added at 17:56 ---------- Previous post was at 17:48 ----------

I'm hoping actually that the 100/10 product comes in around the 50GBP/month mark, that being the bundled price, not standalone.

RobboEdin
10-10-2010, 19:08
Indeed free installation and activation for new customers and only free installation for existing BB customers upgrading to BB XXL.

....but these are standard deals available to all.

Still waiting on information on your claims that deals are getting done if you mention BT Infinity!

Really?

No install, activation charge or contract extension is standard for upgrades from existing customers?

If that is the case I stand corrected, that's pretty good.

What you have stated is not what I said.

Existing BB customers upgrading to BB XXL will only have to pay the activation charge, not the installation charge but will be re-contracted for the BB part of their service which IMHO is fair, given that installation is free and a new modem, router and N adapter will be supplied.

See here:

http://shop.virginmedia.com/existing-customers/customer-offers/upgrade-to-faster-broadband.html

Peter_
10-10-2010, 20:47
Neither of those will or could happen.

20->50 would require every XL customer to receive a new modem and most of them to receive a new router, 50->100 would require sending a new router, or more likely the new DOCSIS 3 hub, to every XXL customer.


As iggi points out it would be highly unlikely to happen due to the costs involved and Virginmedia are out to make a profit, so if anyone out there is crossing their fingers in anticipation of a free upgrade to the next tier then sadly they are mistaken.

vmfriend
10-10-2010, 21:32
It think it would be £65 - £68 mth as a standalone product.

Peter_
10-10-2010, 21:38
It think it would be £65 - £68 mth as a standalone product.
Speculation is pointless at this time and it will likely carry an installation and activation fee as well.

vmfriend
10-10-2010, 21:40
Agreed on both points but sometimes its fun to speculate, a lot could happen between now and then, whenever then may be !

broadbandking
10-10-2010, 21:59
I wouldn't pay so much for my broadband package due I am a low user, I have 50Mb now but that's because I am staff and its cheap so I am happy to pay it if I wasn't staff I would have either 10Mb or 20Mb, would be nice to have 100Mb just see how fast it really is.

Ignitionnet
10-10-2010, 23:03
What you have stated is not what I said.

Existing BB customers upgrading to BB XXL will only have to pay the activation charge, not the installation charge but will be re-contracted for the BB part of their service which IMHO is fair, given that installation is free and a new modem, router and N adapter will be supplied.

See here:

http://shop.virginmedia.com/existing-customers/customer-offers/upgrade-to-faster-broadband.html

Agreed however the case I quoted the chap paid no activation or install and had no contact extension. My comment was that if this is normality it's really good.

---------- Post added at 22:03 ---------- Previous post was at 21:59 ----------

I wouldn't pay so much for my broadband package due I am a low user, I have 50Mb now but that's because I am staff and its cheap so I am happy to pay it if I wasn't staff I would have either 10Mb or 20Mb, would be nice to have 100Mb just see how fast it really is.

About 100,000,000 bits per second, about 11MB/s after overheads, yes it's mightily fast and quite pleasing to watch downloads flow at that speed.

Been there, done that ;)

pip08456
11-10-2010, 00:51
Unless pip08456 can correct me, that thread shows no evidence of Virgin Media doing deals on 50Mb. That is the standard price available to all, new and old, as documented here:

http://shop.virginmedia.com/broadband/up-to-50mb.html

£38 for standalone BB XXL and £39.99 total for BB XXL and Phone M.

When I did my "deal" with them new and old customers had to pay the activation and connection charges.

|Kippa|
11-10-2010, 04:47
If you are an existing 50mbit user would you likely to have to pay for an activation fee for 100mbit. Surely if it is using the same modem as the 50mbit and the upgrade can be done remotely, doesn't that negate the need for a techie to arrive and activation fee?

Peter_
11-10-2010, 07:11
If you are an existing 50mbit user would you likely to have to pay for an activation fee for 100mbit. Surely if it is using the same modem as the 50mbit and the upgrade can be done remotely, doesn't that negate the need for a techie to arrive and activation fee?
The will be new kit for 100Mb so do not hold your breath until announced.

broadbandking
11-10-2010, 09:33
True Masque I'd be surprised if there isn't a new XXXL hub for the when the 100Mb is released.

Peter_
11-10-2010, 09:49
True Masque I'd be surprised if there isn't a new XXXL hub for the when the 100Mb is released.
The will be as a follow on from the lower tier hub.

Ignitionnet
12-10-2010, 14:54
If you are an existing 50mbit user would you likely to have to pay for an activation fee for 100mbit. Surely if it is using the same modem as the 50mbit and the upgrade can be done remotely, doesn't that negate the need for a techie to arrive and activation fee?

Even if not using a new modem doing the upgrade remotely would be an incredibly bad idea as the routers VM have been providing for 50Mbps aren't capable of supporting a 100Mbit service.

A DOCSIS 3 modem/router or 'hub' will be the way things roll.

Chrysalis
12-10-2010, 15:54
a 100mbit router can be capable if no other lan traffic? :)

MK1
12-10-2010, 16:46
One of the great modern benefits of being single with no children is no routers!

whizzard
12-10-2010, 19:16
The will be as a follow on from the lower tier hub.

Yep, as mentioned on VM order pages, the Super Hub will be for any tier > 20mb, though the current 100mb customer pilot is still using the existing modem also used on 50mb.

Peter_
12-10-2010, 19:43
Yep, as mentioned on VM order pages, the Super Hub will be for any tier > 20mb, though the current 100mb customer pilot is still using the existing modem also used on 50mb.
Plus other models.:D

pip08456
12-10-2010, 23:30
Even if not using a new modem doing the upgrade remotely would be an incredibly bad idea as the routers VM have been providing for 50Mbps aren't capable of supporting a 100Mbit service.

A DOCSIS 3 modem/router or 'hub' will be the way things roll.

Sorry Igni, I have to disagree as it would take away customer choice.

Those who wish a hub would be happy but those who prefer their own router not so.

Ignitionnet
12-10-2010, 23:45
a 100mbit router can be capable if no other lan traffic? :)

Nope. 100Mbit ports can't carry 100Mbit of IP traffic, the bandwidth caps are enforced at IP layer. All ISPs advertising a 100Mbit service require Gigabit hardware for appropriate performance for example.... http://www.comhem.se/comhem/bredband/bredband-fran-com-hem/systemkrav-bredband-xxl-100/-/6260/302550/-/index.html

---------- Post added at 22:45 ---------- Previous post was at 22:44 ----------

Sorry Igni, I have to disagree as it would take away customer choice.

Those who wish a hub would be happy but those who prefer their own router not so.

I didn't offer an opinion as to what was good or bad I just said that this was how it would be. :)

Andrewcrawford23
13-10-2010, 16:17
Nope. 100Mbit ports can't carry 100Mbit of IP traffic, the bandwidth caps are enforced at IP layer. All ISPs advertising a 100Mbit service require Gigabit hardware for appropriate performance for example.... http://www.comhem.se/comhem/bredband/bredband-fran-com-hem/systemkrav-bredband-xxl-100/-/6260/302550/-/index.html

---------- Post added at 22:45 ---------- Previous post was at 22:44 ----------



I didn't offer an opinion as to what was good or bad I just said that this was how it would be. :)
true the 100mb ports wont take full 100mb but if it was choice between having 90mb thorughput nd having hte hub i go witht he less throughput and then get my own rotuer with giga ports, to be honesti think virign will start offering cisco gigabit wireless rotuers with 100mbit as well as the hub

mas you sure you will need a new modme it seem dum that they get a nw modem out for 50mb that cant suport hgiher speds as far as i know it cn do 200mb but 400mb trials is new modem as it using 8 downstream,s whereas the current 50mb modem can only use 4

BenMcr
13-10-2010, 16:42
to be honesti think virign will start offering cisco gigabit wireless rotuers with 100mbit as well as the hubNo they won't

The SuperHub will be Gigabit so there is no need to do so

However it's likely the SuperHub will have a modem only mode (and the Hub is planned to have this included in a firmware update) so customers will be able to use their own router if they wish

Ignitionnet
13-10-2010, 19:52
true the 100mb ports wont take full 100mb but if it was choice between having 90mb thorughput nd having hte hub i go witht he less throughput and then get my own rotuer with giga ports, to be honesti think virign will start offering cisco gigabit wireless rotuers with 100mbit as well as the hub

mas you sure you will need a new modme it seem dum that they get a nw modem out for 50mb that cant suport hgiher speds as far as i know it cn do 200mb but 400mb trials is new modem as it using 8 downstream,s whereas the current 50mb modem can only use 4

I didn't say anything about needing a new modem, it's the router that needs replacing, both the Netgear and Dlink that VM have been supplying only have 100Mbps ports.

Andrewcrawford23
13-10-2010, 21:24
I didn't say anything about needing a new modem, it's the router that needs replacing, both the Netgear and Dlink that VM have been supplying only have 100Mbps ports.
the modem bit wasnt direct at yoy sorry for the misundeestand i know yiu never said anything about a new modem

---------- Post added at 20:24 ---------- Previous post was at 20:23 ----------

No they won't

The SuperHub will be Gigabit so there is no need to do so

However it's likely the SuperHub will have a modem only mode (and the Hub is planned to have this included in a firmware update) so customers will be able to use their own router if they wish

i hope for vitgin sakew they develop a standalone non hub modem or i never upgrade as the hub is really bad idea

BenMcr
13-10-2010, 21:26
i hope for vitgin sakew they develop a standalone non hub modem or i never upgrade as the hub is really bad ideaRead what I posted, the SuperHub will allow you to put it into a modem only mode.

However from what I've been told so far the SuperHub will be not be low spec device

Andrewcrawford23
13-10-2010, 21:43
Read what I posted, the SuperHub will allow you to put it into a modem only mode.

However from what I've been told so far the SuperHub will be not be low spec device
yes modem only mode but it still teh hub at the en dof the day from a diagnostic view and from netowrk poitn of view i wanta serperate modem not a mode with itnergrated wireless even if it is only in modem only mode

BenMcr
13-10-2010, 21:59
yes modem only mode but it still teh hub at the en dof the day from a diagnostic view and from netowrk poitn of view i wanta serperate modem not a mode with itnergrated wireless even if it is only in modem only modeYes it will still be the SuperHub but with the router part of the firmware competely switched off.

If you don't want it, then you won't be getting 100Mbit.

Andrewcrawford23
13-10-2010, 22:13
Yes it will still be the SuperHub but with the router part of the firmware competely switched off.

If you don't want it, then you won't be getting 100Mbit.
i think the 509mb modem can handle 100mb if it cant that was bad move to get something only for 50mb and no future upgrades

rather go to bt or fibrecity than have the hub even thouh i prefer virign connection over those

BenMcr
13-10-2010, 22:51
i think the 509mb modem can handle 100mb if it cant that was bad move to get something only for 50mb and no future upgradesIf new kit is needed for future upgrades, then Virgin will supply it as part of the service.

rather go to bt or fibrecity than have the hub even thouh i prefer virign connection over thoseThat's your choice

pip08456
13-10-2010, 23:50
rather go to bt or fibrecity than have the hub even thouh i prefer virign connection over those

Methinks someone hasn't heard of the BT Hub. :D:D:D

Andrewcrawford23
14-10-2010, 00:01
i mean bt infinty ie fttc or maybe ftth doutb they use that hub if they did that another oen that go buh bye ;) virign hub is jsu tliek bt and i hate bt and i ahte virgin oh i fount so many flaws with it it is unbleieveable

Zaim7890
14-10-2010, 02:37
I reckon when it comes it it'll be £60

roger skillin
14-10-2010, 11:03
I recon when it comes 100mb will be ( doesn't really matter until it's actually here does it) £

BenMcr
14-10-2010, 13:04
Methinks someone hasn't heard of the BT Hub. :D:D:D
Actually by the looks of it BT are using a seperate modem and router for infinity - probably because there are so few/no vDSL combined devices

pip08456
14-10-2010, 13:15
Actually by the looks of it BT are using a seperate modem and router for infinity - probably because there are so few/no vDSL combined devices

Then by the looks of it BT are one up on VM.

Chrysalis
14-10-2010, 14:12
I didn't say anything about needing a new modem, it's the router that needs replacing, both the Netgear and Dlink that VM have been supplying only have 100Mbps ports.

interesting, I know my st585 can do 12meg/sec throughput which I assume is full 100mbit excluding overheads. not really tested what the dir615 can do tho as I have my lan routed via my gigabit billion 7402nx.

BenMcr
14-10-2010, 15:03
Then by the looks of it BT are one up on VM.Don't see how?

Once again, the SuperHub that is supplied with 100Mbit will have a Modem only mode, mean that is all it does and will act exactly the same as a standalone modem.

So if you want to use your own router it will be extremely easy to do

pip08456
14-10-2010, 15:36
It would be even easier if it was just a standalone modem. Admittedly there are those who would like a hub but the consensus seems to be otherwise.

BenMcr
14-10-2010, 15:41
It would be even easier if it was just a standalone modem. Admittedly there are those who would like a hub but the consensus seems to be otherwise.The consensus for a standlone modem is based purely on the fact that people want to be able to use their own routers - which they will be able to do.

However, the Hubs are much much much much easier to set up compared with the modem/router combination, so are easier for the majority of customers who aren't technically minded to install, and for Virgin to support.

pip08456
14-10-2010, 17:11
The consensus for a standlone modem is based purely on the fact that people want to be able to use their own routers - which they will be able to do.

However, the Hubs are much much much much easier to set up compared with the modem/router combination, so are easier for the majority of customers who aren't technically minded to install, and for Virgin to support.

Your point is noted. :D:D:D I still have to figure out the majority of users (who haven't taken up the 50Mb service) you are referring to.

The majority migrating to 100Mb/s would be knowledgeable enough.

Ignitionnet
14-10-2010, 17:42
interesting, I know my st585 can do 12meg/sec throughput which I assume is full 100mbit excluding overheads. not really tested what the dir615 can do tho as I have my lan routed via my gigabit billion 7402nx.

Some of the overheads are included in the cable modem rate cap. 100Mbps Ethernet is not adequate for a 100Mbps cable service to run at full speed. The cable modem's 100Mbps rate cap both uses some payload suppression to reduce TCP headers and ignores Ethernet headers.

Your performance is interesting given that none of the routers http://www.smallnetbuilder.com have every tested with Fast Ethernet have managed to reach 94Mbps throughput.

The Dir-615 reports 87.5Mbps throughput downstream, 88.1Mbps upstream according to their tests.

---------- Post added at 16:36 ---------- Previous post was at 16:32 ----------

yes modem only mode but it still teh hub at the en dof the day from a diagnostic view and from netowrk poitn of view i wanta serperate modem not a mode with itnergrated wireless even if it is only in modem only mode

Depends which angle you're discussing from the 'diagnostic' point of view. From the ISP's point of view it's a no brainer.

---------- Post added at 16:40 ---------- Previous post was at 16:36 ----------

i mean bt infinty ie fttc or maybe ftth doutb they use that hub if they did that another oen that go buh bye ;) virign hub is jsu tliek bt and i hate bt and i ahte virgin oh i fount so many flaws with it it is unbleieveable

BT require you to use their supplied Homehub on their FTTC and FTTP products.

---------- Post added at 16:42 ---------- Previous post was at 16:40 ----------

The majority migrating to 100Mb/s would be knowledgeable enough.

Wouldn't bet on that - certainly many will purely be upgrading just to cane newsgroups and P2P and will whinge whenever their 'guaranteed' 100Mbps doesn't max out.

pip08456
14-10-2010, 17:55
Wouldn't bet on that - certainly many will purely be upgrading just to cane newsgroups and P2P and will whinge whenever their 'guaranteed' 100Mbps doesn't max out.

OK Then how about the majority of the majority?

Andrewcrawford23
14-10-2010, 22:55
Depends which angle you're discussing from the 'diagnostic' point of view. From the ISP's point of view it's a no brainer.


the current hb it next to impossible to determine if there isa fault cause the lights are impossible to see, and if the rotur itnerface is down you can not* log dirrectly into the modem and that from is poitn of vie even with the tools at isp level not alays possibel to tell where teh faulkt lies

BenMcr
14-10-2010, 23:07
even with the tools at isp level not alays possibel to tell where teh faulkt liesI doubt that very much.

The Hub would not have been rolled out if it wasn't usable with the diagnostic tools Virgin use

jb66
14-10-2010, 23:22
the current hb it next to impossible to determine if there isa fault cause the lights are impossible to see, and if the rotur itnerface is down you can not* log dirrectly into the modem and that from is poitn of vie even with the tools at isp level not alays possibel to tell where teh faulkt lies

I'm looking at teh lights right now, there a bit dim butter better than flashing away distracting me ;)

Andrewcrawford23
14-10-2010, 23:47
I doubt that very much.

The Hub would not have been rolled out if it wasn't usable with the diagnostic tools Virgin use
i woul;dnt say so when it went for trial they hada very short trial period it was already decide they want to brign it out i think it was rushed

to be hones teh tools cant even diagnostic modems all the time that why serper\ate modem are better you can elimate cusotmer equipment quicker

BenMcr
14-10-2010, 23:54
This could go on all night.

Suffice to say the 100Mbit (which what this thread is about) will only come with the SuperHub.

Ignitionnet
15-10-2010, 00:29
i woul;dnt say so when it went for trial they hada very short trial period it was already decide they want to brign it out i think it was rushed

to be hones teh tools cant even diagnostic modems all the time that why serper\ate modem are better you can elimate cusotmer equipment quicker

What better way to eliminate the customer's router from the equation than make it a part of the operator's equipment? ;)

---------- Post added at 23:29 ---------- Previous post was at 23:26 ----------

OK Then how about the majority of the majority?

Most technically uber people won't necessarily have an interest in 100Mbit, they have lower tier services which are fine for them.

I'll reckon the majority will want it to cane it on P2P / newsgroups. Downloading a ton doesn't mean technical skills by default.

We'll see.

pip08456
15-10-2010, 01:26
Most technically uber people won't necessarily have an interest in 100Mbit, they have lower tier services which are fine for them.

I'll reckon the majority will want it to cane it on P2P / newsgroups. Downloading a ton doesn't mean technical skills by default.

We'll see.

I've got to agree with you there, I see no point in 100Mb but for that ATM. That said there are a lot who do cane P2P and newsgroups who know there way around a router etc.

jb66
15-10-2010, 08:55
This could go on all night.

Suffice to say the 100Mbit (which what this thread is about) will only come with the SuperHub.

Even the folk upgrading from XXL?

Ignitionnet
15-10-2010, 09:40
Even the folk upgrading from XXL?

Have a look at the rest of the thread ;)

Yes them too.

roughbeast
15-10-2010, 09:50
Even the folk upgrading from XXL?

Yep! The VM provided 'n' routers only have 100Mbs ethernet, not actually enough to have 100Mb WAN to LAN throughput. Usually the WAN to LAN throughput of particular routers is less than the ethernet spec. eg. My Netgear WNDR3700 has 1Gb ethernet but its actual throughput is 408Mb. See HERE (http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/component/option,com_chart/Itemid,189/) for router throughput comparisons. The Netgear WNR2000 dished out with earlier 50Mb installations has a throughput of only 92.5Mb.

My investment in the WNDR3700 has future proofed me for 200Mb* and 400Mb connections.(Just) VM would be wise to do likewise with any hub or router/modem combinations they dish out to 100Mb customers. Somehow I doubt if they will take that long view. They will go for cheap now rather than save later.

*Currently being trialled in Coventry.

Andrewcrawford23
15-10-2010, 17:53
What better way to eliminate the customer's router from the equation than make it a part of the operator's equipment? ;)

---------- Post added at 23:29 ---------- Previous post was at 23:26 ----------



Most technically uber people won't necessarily have an interest in 100Mbit, they have lower tier services which are fine for them.

I'll reckon the majority will want it to cane it on P2P / newsgroups. Downloading a ton doesn't mean technical skills by default.

We'll see.

Ok here the question i posed to virign about it and never got a answer....

Hopefully you will udnerstand and might acutalyl givea godo answer

Ok, cusotmer phones in and cant get on the internet. you check they have 169 wired nd wirelessly, but downstream light is flashing. now you possible havea faulty hub that need replaced, but there might eba netowrk fault, so you chek internal tools to see hte status and you getr certain error back which means you there corruption ont he lien but doesnt necessarily mean there a fault just the equipment might be sending back back data, (so the normal way around that is to disconenct the router) but cant do that here so you cant commit to a tech without comfirmation there is a fault afterall teh hub could jsut be faulty so what owuld you take be on a scenario liek that

BenMcr
15-10-2010, 18:04
The diagnostics don't change significantly.

If the modem bit works and the router bit doesn't, then the unit needs replacing

If the router bit works and the modem bit doesn't, then the unit needs replacing

Andrewcrawford23
15-10-2010, 18:26
The diagnostics don't change significantly.

If the modem bit works and the router bit doesn't, then the unit needs replacing

If the router bit works and the modem bit doesn't, then the unit needs replacing
wrong..... rotuer bit not workign u it need replacing

mdoem bit not working could be unit, could be network, couldbe local ther eno way of knowing so do you a send a tech and whena tech mgiht nto be reuqired or b send a unit and a tehc is reuqired

BenMcr
15-10-2010, 18:33
wrong..... rotuer bit not workign u it need replacing

mdoem bit not working could be unit, could be network, couldbe local ther eno way of knowing so do you a send a tech and whena tech mgiht nto be reuqired or b send a unit and a tehc is reuqired
Ok, maybe I was wrong on that - I'm not faults trained.

But I really can't be bothered discussing this any further as you've obviously made up your mind about the Hubs.

Whatever is said here is not going to change the fact that the Hubs are going to be the only equipment provided to customers, and I promise you they are already doing what they were designed to do which is reduce the issues experienced with previous equipment

Peter_
15-10-2010, 20:51
Ok here the question i posed to virign about it and never got a answer....

Hopefully you will udnerstand and might acutalyl givea godo answer

Ok, cusotmer phones in and cant get on the internet. you check they have 169 wired nd wirelessly, but downstream light is flashing. now you possible havea faulty hub that need replaced, but there might eba netowrk fault, so you chek internal tools to see hte status and you getr certain error back which means you there corruption ont he lien but doesnt necessarily mean there a fault just the equipment might be sending back back data, (so the normal way around that is to disconenct the router) but cant do that here so you cant commit to a tech without comfirmation there is a fault afterall teh hub could jsut be faulty so what owuld you take be on a scenario liek that
It is still a modem so you unscrew the coax and check the IP address again to see if you have an Autoconfiguration IP or a 192 IP address.

---------- Post added at 19:51 ---------- Previous post was at 19:48 ----------

wrong..... rotuer bit not workign u it need replacing

mdoem bit not working could be unit, could be network, couldbe local ther eno way of knowing so do you a send a tech and whena tech mgiht nto be reuqired or b send a unit and a tehc is reuqired
Did you fail to read Ben's post properly, he said router fault hub needs replacing, modem fault hub needs replacing.;)

Ignitionnet
15-10-2010, 22:01
Ok here the question i posed to virign about it and never got a answer....

Hopefully you will udnerstand and might acutalyl givea godo answer

Ok, cusotmer phones in and cant get on the internet. you check they have 169 wired nd wirelessly, but downstream light is flashing. now you possible havea faulty hub that need replaced, but there might eba netowrk fault, so you chek internal tools to see hte status and you getr certain error back which means you there corruption ont he lien but doesnt necessarily mean there a fault just the equipment might be sending back back data, (so the normal way around that is to disconenct the router) but cant do that here so you cant commit to a tech without comfirmation there is a fault afterall teh hub could jsut be faulty so what owuld you take be on a scenario liek that

They didn't answer because your question makes no sense.

If the downstream light is flashing the hub is faulty or there's a network issue, diagnose it as you would anything else. Are there other devices on the same network segment functioning properly, does a ping docsis or whatever the tools' equivalent is run smoothly, etc. If there's a network problem you'll either be able to see it on the downstream stats on the modem or you'll see incrementing Uncorrectable FECs on the CMTS port.

Disconnecting the router isn't required as the ISP owns the router, so if that's at fault and generating garbage we need to replace it. Client machines cannot generate garbage and pump it onto the network via the hub.

It's all academic anyway. The question is fundamentally flawed as a flashing downstream light won't cause 169 IP addresses on client machines, that's either a fault with the client machine or a fault with the hub. Testing multiple machines via wired and wireless points to the hub.

---------- Post added at 21:01 ---------- Previous post was at 20:59 ----------

wrong..... rotuer bit not workign u it need replacing

mdoem bit not working could be unit, could be network, couldbe local ther eno way of knowing so do you a send a tech and whena tech mgiht nto be reuqired or b send a unit and a tehc is reuqired

How is that different from a standalone modem? If you can't get to the modem and there's no evidence of a current network fault from the info at hand or simple checks like modems on and offline on the cable ports you send a tech, difference being he goes to the site with a spare hub instead of a spare modem, ya?

Reedy
15-10-2010, 23:40
I've had over 100Mb/s for over 2 weeks now. Not bad considering I pay for 10!

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2010/10/38.png

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2010/10/39.png

Thanks Virgin Media! :)

Andrewcrawford23
15-10-2010, 23:42
Acutalyl i aint goign to sit arguign about it i ;prpove it internally but it got ingored virign problem now nto mine

Ignitionnet
15-10-2010, 23:53
You seemed to lose interest there rather quickly when an explanation as to why your question was spurious was put in front of you, which is a shame.

As I hope I've suggested there is no problem there that isn't present with the separate modem and router and the scenario you described isn't going to happen as the downstream light flashing and the clients not getting IP addresses aren't related.

roughbeast
16-10-2010, 00:23
I've had over 100Mb/s for over 2 weeks now. Not bad considering I pay for 10!

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2010/10/38.png

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2010/10/39.png

Thanks Virgin Media! :)

There must be some mistake! (Pronounce with a Sean Connery accent.)

That is weird, because the down speeds you are showing are not sustainable with the upload speed shown.


Next time you get a test like that, retest immediately and show us both results.

pip08456
16-10-2010, 00:37
Clear the browser cache first.

Andrewcrawford23
16-10-2010, 01:19
You seemed to lose interest there rather quickly when an explanation as to why your question was spurious was put in front of you, which is a shame.

As I hope I've suggested there is no problem there that isn't present with the separate modem and router and the scenario you described isn't going to happen as the downstream light flashing and the clients not getting IP addresses aren't related.
your answer was reasonble if you liek i can try explain better my reasoning and why in a pm jsut not goign to contunie the conversation here as it will turn itnoa arguement possible i mgiht insult someone eitehr by accident or intenttional so i rather avoid that

Reedy
16-10-2010, 13:15
There must be some mistake! (Pronounce with a Sean Connery accent.)

That is weird, because the down speeds you are showing are not sustainable with the upload speed shown.


Next time you get a test like that, retest immediately and show us both results.

Two different servers, bit slow today though. I don't know why it's so fast as it just started doing it of its own accord. I wouldn't care it VM put it back to 10meg, but as long as it's over 10 meg and works, I don't care.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2010/10/36.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2010/10/37.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

roughbeast
16-10-2010, 13:59
Two different servers, bit slow today though. I don't know why it's so fast as it just started doing it of its own accord. I wouldn't care it VM put it back to 10meg, but as long as it's over 10 meg and works, I don't care.


Now that's interesting! Did you clear your browser cache each time? I'm still puzzled by the up speed though.

Can you show us your modem config stats? HERE (http://192.168.100.1)Click on the config link. There you should get your down and upstream max.

Peter_
16-10-2010, 14:03
Two different servers, bit slow today though. I don't know why it's so fast as it just started doing it of its own accord. I wouldn't care it VM put it back to 10meg, but as long as it's over 10 meg and works, I don't care.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2010/10/36.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2010/10/37.png (http://www.speedtest.net)
Your modem is incapable of that speed so we know it is incorrect plus the if you check in your modem configs you will find a 10Mb Docsis file.:D

The Jambo
16-10-2010, 16:11
Would like to know why you get those results though. I get the same....

Sticks at 10mbps for ages, then jumps to a random number at the end....

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2010/10/34.png

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2010/10/35.png
Yeah. Beat that.

roughbeast
16-10-2010, 19:00
OK this is going way off the thread subject. I got one of those, but I know why.

http://www.speedtest.net/rank/1377087221.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

I checked my CPU usage during speed tests and it was going up to 100% for the first half of the download test, but suddenly dropped at the end. Most of the test the speed registered around 20Mb but jumped to massive speeds right at the end. The same happened to a lesser extent with the upload tests. A good analogy/metaphor would be a geological fault line where the fault strains to move against the resistance of rocks but suddenly slips and produces an earthquake.

So, the the problem was CPU usage. Most tests use a lot of CPU. If you already have CPU-greedy applications running then there can be a problem particularly if your processor hasn't much poke. This also explains why some people report slow connection speeds in these forums, but in fact they have a slow computer.

I solved my problem by uninstalling my VM security software which uses Kasperski anti-virus,(heavy on CPU), and installed Microsoft Security Essentials, (hardly uses any CPU), instead. Now during a speed test my CPU usage hits 80% just momentarily. The test runs smoothly with no jerkiness and I get consistent results.

Reducing general CPU usage has made by PC run better anyway and I have noticed that the hard drive doesn't get so defragmented either.

Chrysalis
17-10-2010, 21:57
Wouldn't bet on that - certainly many will purely be upgrading just to cane newsgroups and P2P and will whinge whenever their 'guaranteed' 100Mbps doesn't max out.

to be fair tho, wouldnt upgrading to 100mbit for web browsing be a waste of cash? the majority of people on 100mbit will be heavier users I expect even if its not for p2p and newsgroups.

the majority of speed related complaints seem to have merit as well in my view, people generally dont complain if speeds are almost max but usually when they way down like sub 25%.

my router I meant including tcp overheads sorry, so dumeter shows 12meg throughput but data rate will be lower.

Zhadnost
18-10-2010, 12:26
I'm still curious as to why the existing 50Mbit modem wouldn't work with 100Mbit.

Isn't it right that it can handle 4 bonded channels offering 55.6Mbit each and this is switched to a gigabit MAC?

BenMcr
18-10-2010, 12:30
I'm still curious as to why the existing 50Mbit modem wouldn't work with 100Mbit.It will work, it's just that Virgin aren't going to use it.

|Kippa|
18-10-2010, 17:34
BenMcr does this mean if I upgrade from 50mbit to 100mbit that I would need to get a technician out again to install the new modem and have another installation charge?

Or is it just a case of post it to the user, plug it in and no installation charge?

BenMcr
18-10-2010, 17:56
BenMcr does this mean if I upgrade from 50mbit to 100mbit that I would need to get a technician out again to install the new modem and have another installation charge?

Or is it just a case of post it to the user, plug it in and no installation charge?Full details of the upgrade between 50Mbit and 100Mbit haven't been confirmed yet, so I don't know

However as the D-Link router supplied with 50Mbit won't perform at all well with 100Mbit, everyone upgrading to 100Mbit will need the SuperHub

telfordcable
18-10-2010, 17:58
The 100Meg won't be a nationwide upgrade (only the 51% of it will have 100Meg) so, don't get your hope too high!

BenMcr
18-10-2010, 18:09
The 100Meg won't be a nationwide upgrade (only the 51% of it will have 100Meg) so, don't get your hope too high!What are you talking about? Once the rollout is complete 100Mbit will be available across the whole of the Virgin Media cable network

Welshchris
18-10-2010, 18:16
Full details of the upgrade between 50Mbit and 100Mbit haven't been confirmed yet, so I don't know

However as the D-Link router supplied with 50Mbit won't perform at all well with 100Mbit, everyone upgrading to 100Mbit will need the SuperHub

i read somewhere tho that the Superhub will have to be purchased from VM and they wont be issuing it for free....

I would like to see an option of being issued with a modem for free or free upgrade if u already have a 50mb modem or a choice to purchase the Superhub.

DigitalShadow
18-10-2010, 19:06
The 100Meg won't be a nationwide upgrade (only the 51% of it will have 100Meg) so, don't get your hope too high!

:shocked:

waHHHHHHHHHHH?

Ignitionnet
18-10-2010, 19:15
i read somewhere tho that the Superhub will have to be purchased from VM and they wont be issuing it for free....

I would like to see an option of being issued with a modem for free or free upgrade if u already have a 50mb modem or a choice to purchase the Superhub.

If that happens it's not exactly unprecedented. Many cable companies charge for cable modems.

---------- Post added at 18:15 ---------- Previous post was at 18:13 ----------

The 100Meg won't be a nationwide upgrade (only the 51% of it will have 100Meg) so, don't get your hope too high!

I get what he means, he just totally missed out on the point. It is of course accurate that 51% or so of the nation will be able to get the 100Mbit, this being the amount of the nation covered by Virgin Media's network.

100% of the network will get the upgrade though.

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/story/2010/10/18/bt-openreach-uk-reveal-110mbps-fttp-fibre-optic-broadband-product-and-price.html

BenMcr
18-10-2010, 21:21
i read somewhere tho that the Superhub will have to be purchased from VM and they wont be issuing it for free....

I would like to see an option of being issued with a modem for free or free upgrade if u already have a 50mb modem or a choice to purchase the Superhub.The SuperHub will follow the same process as the existing Hub

Once it launches anyone upgrading to 50Mbit or 100Mbit will get the SuperHub. It will be included within any install or activation fees

telfordcable
19-10-2010, 19:32
I get what he means, he just totally missed out on the point. It is of course accurate that 51% or so of the nation will be able to get the 100Mbit, this being the amount of the nation covered by Virgin Media's network.

100% of the network will get the upgrade though.

Are you 100% sure of this ? The whole network won't be upgrade to 100Meg. Some parts will get it, not all of it.

---------- Post added at 18:32 ---------- Previous post was at 18:29 ----------

The SuperHub will follow the same process as the existing Hub

Once it launches anyone upgrading to 50Mbit or 100Mbit will get the SuperHub. It will be included within any install or activation fees

How much is the superhub 100meg modem ? how much is the activation fee, installation charge for 100meg ?

Ignitionnet
19-10-2010, 19:38
Are you 100% sure of this ? The whole network won't be upgrade to 100Meg. Some parts will get it, not all of it.

Yes I am, some areas will take a while but all the network that has 50Mbps now will get 100Mbps.

As I said you misread the ISP Review article (http://www.ispreview.co.uk/story/2010/10/18/bt-openreach-uk-reveal-110mbps-fttp-fibre-optic-broadband-product-and-price.html), it was referring to the % of the UK that can get VM cable when it gave the 51% figure.

Virgin will cover 51% of the UK

Some of the network will have to wait until middle of next year or later before it sees the increased upload and 100Mbps services but will be appropriately upgraded.

Source: I am in one of the areas that may well be waiting this long and asked the right people.

roughbeast
19-10-2010, 20:33
OK. I get it. The VM cable network covers 51% of the population, by virtue of its mostly urban nature. 100% of that network will be 100Mbs-capable by about half-way through next year. But, consumer take up of this capability will not be 100% because some will be quite happy to stick with 20Mb and 50Mb, especially with the expected 10:1 download/upload roll out.

Ignitionnet
19-10-2010, 20:38
The majority are still on 10 to be honest with you.

Andrewcrawford23
19-10-2010, 21:24
The majority are still on 10 to be honest with you.
i say at least 85-95% are

Ignitionnet
19-10-2010, 22:45
i say at least 85-95% are

Nah not that high, 60-70% due to VIP and other deals if I remember the results correctly. I'm sure during an earnings release they informed roughly what the breakdown was.

pip08456
19-10-2010, 23:48
Nah not that high, 60-70% due to VIP and other deals if I remember the results correctly. I'm sure during an earnings release they informed roughly what the breakdown was.

So taking your quote (and I won't hold you to it) that leaves 30-40 % on the 20Mb or 50Mb tiers. Of those can we guess (unless you have figures) that about 60% ish are on 20Mb.

That leaves a ballpark firgure of about 10% (overall) who are on 50Mb.

This now begs the question - Who is going to upgrade to the 100Mb package.

50Mb (updated upload) now has traffic management, P2P shaping etc so who is left to make it a commercial enterprise for them.

Of the 10% who upgraded to 50Mb you have to admit at least 90% did so to avoid management of any kind for P2P or newsgroups.

Who does it leave to sell 100Mb to???

broadbandking
20-10-2010, 00:30
So taking your quote (and I won't hold you to it) that leaves 30-40 % on the 20Mb or 50Mb tiers. Of those can we guess (unless you have figures) that about 60% ish are on 20Mb.

That leaves a ballpark firgure of about 10% (overall) who are on 50Mb.

This now begs the question - Who is going to upgrade to the 100Mb package.

50Mb (updated upload) now has traffic management, P2P shaping etc so who is left to make it a commercial enterprise for them.

Of the 10% who upgraded to 50Mb you have to admit at least 90% did so to avoid management of any kind for P2P or newsgroups.

Who does it leave to sell 100Mb to???

100Mb will still sell purely because its the fastest speed out there for a res account, the uptake maybe slower due to traffic shaping as I understand it 100Mb will have same restriction as I don't think they can seperate one tier (correct me if I am wrong)

roughbeast
20-10-2010, 07:37
Here's a slightly out-of-date but never-the-less interesting review of the 50Mb service and the 100Mb rollout. HERE (http://www.paranormal-marketing.com/2010/09/03/virgin-medias-50mbs-broadband-reviewed-100mbs-faster-coming-soon/)


Sorry if this has already been posted somewhere.

Chrysalis
20-10-2010, 10:26
So taking your quote (and I won't hold you to it) that leaves 30-40 % on the 20Mb or 50Mb tiers. Of those can we guess (unless you have figures) that about 60% ish are on 20Mb.

That leaves a ballpark firgure of about 10% (overall) who are on 50Mb.

This now begs the question - Who is going to upgrade to the 100Mb package.

50Mb (updated upload) now has traffic management, P2P shaping etc so who is left to make it a commercial enterprise for them.

Of the 10% who upgraded to 50Mb you have to admit at least 90% did so to avoid management of any kind for P2P or newsgroups.

Who does it leave to sell 100Mb to???

I wouldnt say 90% were to avoid STM I reckon is lower then that, many people get the highest speed simply because they can and like to just have it.

100mbit will stil have no download STM, just upload STM but also the traffic shaping. I have a sneaky feeling VM will also throttle 100mbit connections less than eg. 10mbit connections so if say p2p users want 100% of network capacity but only 25% is available, I think 10mbit users will see much lower throughput still than 100mbit under those conditions.