View Full Version : has it started?
Chrysalis
02-10-2010, 10:36
I watched a download from one of my ftp servers gradually slow down (not on port 21 and encrypted), yet speedtests etc. fine. After it hit less than 200kB/sec I stopped it and reconfigured the ftp to use port 21 and not encrypt and then back to normal speed.
Chrysalis
02-10-2010, 10:42
the protocol shaping.
Whether it has or not, FTP is neither P2P or Newsgroups, so isn't affected
Chrysalis
02-10-2010, 10:58
Whether it has or not, FTP is neither P2P or Newsgroups, so isn't affected
if it works right. I see the STM page shows new info now so I guessing its been turned on.
if it works right. I see the STM page shows new info now so I guessing its been turned on.When it's switched on it will work correctly
But maybe it isn't working correctly, and caused the Road Traffic on my way to work yesterday to slow down?
Ignitionnet
02-10-2010, 11:03
Seems unlikely given the time, I suspect it's just one of those things and we'll see a lot of this blamed on the shaping.
Quite possible the shaping will treat unidentified traffic as low priority though.
It won't be rolled out everywhere yet, needs configuration on loads of network nodes to be applied.
Quite possible the shaping will treat unidentified traffic as low priority though.I would have though that it would only affect positively identified traffic?
Ignitionnet
02-10-2010, 11:06
When it's switched on it will work correctly
But maybe it isn't working correctly, and caused the Road Traffic on my way to work yesterday to slow down?
Ben there's no guarantee of that, shaping can and does misfire, note the issues on the National network using similar hardware.
Also note that OP's transfer was encrypted and off-port so it would have gone into a shaping appliance's 'unidentified' class.
That said it's almost certainly not the shaping, wrong time of day and it's almost certainly not active yet but I think we can guarantee that every slow down for a while will be blamed on it :)
---------- Post added at 11:06 ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 ----------
I would have though that it would only affect positively identified traffic?
That would be entirely up to VM and the people making the shaping policy. Do they give benefit of the doubt or do they assume the worst, or do they try one then try the other.
I would imagine it depends to a large extent on what % of traffic is unidentified. As I'm sure you're aware this hardware will have been sitting in the network in monitoring mode for a while.
When it's switched on it will work correctly
But maybe it isn't working correctly, and caused the Road Traffic on my way to work yesterday to slow down?
So thats why the m56 is bad in a morning :) bloody virgin messing up our motorways :LOL:
However i can confirm that as yet there are no problems with my vpn traffic :)
Chrysalis
02-10-2010, 11:25
Is possible I over reacted out of paranoia, will try it again later on as well and see if the same thing happens. Its the first time I seen changing ports affect traffic on VM tho.
theoldbill
02-10-2010, 14:16
Could I just clarify, the new 6gb peak-time upload policy on 50meg; is this only triggered by certain protocols or across all traffic types? I.e. once triggered will the new shaped speed affect only p2p, news uploads - but uploads over http, ftp will not be shaped?
I know as it stands it is a blanket speed regrade for all traffic types for 5hrs but I got the impression this time around they now are using DPI to only slow down specific protocols.
Ta.
broadbandking
02-10-2010, 14:23
Traffic Shaping during peak times will effect all BT,P2P and NTTP traffic all other traffic is unaffected unless you hit the STM limits by any mean's.
Ignitionnet
02-10-2010, 15:01
Traffic Shaping during peak times will effect all BT,P2P and NTTP traffic all other traffic is unaffected unless you hit the STM limits by any mean's.
We don't know exactly what the policy encompasses. Until a definitive statement is released it's probably best not to make assumptions.
broadbandking
02-10-2010, 15:52
They have said traffic shaping will be turned on between 5-12pm (Peak Times) and traffic management is in operation as normal how is this a assumptions?
speedfreak
02-10-2010, 15:57
sort of on/off topic....
I think Call of Duty uses p2p so does anyone know if this sort of gaming will be affected? :(
Ignitionnet
02-10-2010, 17:07
sort of on/off topic....
I think Call of Duty uses p2p so does anyone know if this sort of gaming will be affected? :(
Shouldn't be.
---------- Post added at 17:07 ---------- Previous post was at 17:04 ----------
They have said traffic shaping will be turned on between 5-12pm (Peak Times) and traffic management is in operation as normal how is this a assumptions?
I was referring to the details of what exactly will be shaped. That's the assumption unless you've seen the configuration on the hardware identifying the traffic.
broadbandking
02-10-2010, 18:28
They have said P2P traffic, BT and NTTP thats enough isn't it I never meantioned any apps been shaped.
Traffic Shaping during peak times will effect all BT,P2P and NTTP traffic all other traffic is unaffected unless you hit the STM limits by any mean's.
Does it mention what "Peak" times are (10am - 9pm) ?
Does it mention what "Peak" times are (10am - 9pm) ?
Post #15 in this thread
They have said traffic shaping will be turned on between 5-12pm (Peak Times) and traffic management is in operation as normal how is this a assumptions?
Post #15 in this thread
Thanks.
speedfreak
02-10-2010, 18:53
Shouldn't be.[COLOR="Silver"]
I was hoping for a "definitely not" type of answer :( Hmmmm I hope its not affected
Ignitionnet
02-10-2010, 20:01
They have said P2P traffic, BT and NTTP thats enough isn't it I never meantioned any apps been shaped.
Traffic Shaping during peak times will effect all BT,P2P and NTTP traffic all other traffic is unaffected unless you hit the STM limits by any mean's.
Best to not say 'all other traffic is unaffected' as we don't know what may get hit, and it won't be all P2P as far as we're aware, just the standard file sharing selection.
---------- Post added at 20:01 ---------- Previous post was at 20:01 ----------
I was hoping for a "definitely not" type of answer :( Hmmmm I hope its not affected
As I said it shouldn't be, it should be just fine. I don't do 'definitely not' unless I'm configuring the thing myself ;)
Chrysalis
03-10-2010, 00:59
to broadbandking as ingition said they can choose to classify unidentified traffic as p2p. Other isps's have been caught doing this so its not a certianty it wont happen.
Is there a url that states its only 5-12pm?
davidthornton
03-10-2010, 02:42
to broadbandking as ingition said they can choose to classify unidentified traffic as p2p. Other isps's have been caught doing this so its not a certianty it wont happen.
Is there a url that states its only 5-12pm?
Isn't it 5pm - 12am (midnight)? 12pm is midday. Perhaps it'd be easier to use 24 hour clocks from now on. :)
Chrysalis
03-10-2010, 07:41
issue goes away outside of STM hours based on last 18 hours testing.
Ignitionnet
03-10-2010, 08:03
issue goes away outside of STM hours based on last 18 hours testing.
Doesn't share STM hours, starts and finishes later so that's odd. You noted seeing it way outside its' advertised hours of operation so I'm quite sure it's not that.
That said it's certainly live somewhere. I know a guy in a trial area who is most definitely seeing it at work.
broadbandking
03-10-2010, 08:59
How is it working for him ignit?
Ignitionnet
03-10-2010, 09:31
He's in a 100Mbit trial area and is going from 11MB/s on HTTP down to 3-6MB/s on torrents.
Chrysalis
03-10-2010, 09:50
is not happening now either and it STM hours again.
edit, ahh starts 10pm :)
Ignitionnet
03-10-2010, 10:38
is not happening now either and it STM hours again.
edit, ahh starts 10pm :)
5pm - midnight.
5pm - midnight.
Ok looking at there own table it should be as you pointed out
We moderate the total volume of file sharing traffic on our network between 5pm and midnight on weekdays and midday and midnight on weekends. This policy is restricted to Peer to Peer ("P2P") applications and Newsgroups (which are commonly used to distribute large amounts of data)
This policy does not impact any applications other than Peer to Peer and Newsgroups, so things like watching iPlayer, online gaming, making calls via Skype, downloading music tracks from iTunes or streaming them from Spotify and sending an email or normal browsing are unaffected.
It's important to remember that these traffic management policies only apply at peak times when speeds are most likely to be affected by people using more than their fair share.
However some testing i did last night with VPN on and off whilst using FTP seems to point at FTP being in the group as well. Runs great via vpn and slows right down when not via the vpn. But as my area has not had the upload upgrade does that mean we get the Traffic management before we get the upgrade :nono:
Chrysalis
03-10-2010, 10:51
is same again now, I didnt check right at 10am tho to see if suddenly changed.
---------- Post added at 10:51 ---------- Previous post was at 10:50 ----------
5pm - midnight.
I meant daytime STM hours.
Ignitionnet
03-10-2010, 11:22
But as my area has not had the upload upgrade does that mean we get the Traffic management before we get the upgrade :nono:
Correct, the two aren't related only the STM change is.
Chrysalis
03-10-2010, 11:28
its gone again now. :) in fact today wasnt the same as yesterday either, it was slower but only a bit slower so could well just be congestion and encryption maybe doesnt handle congested conditions so well due to the overheads.
Correct, the two aren't related only the STM change is.
It does not bother me as i feel it will not affect me ;)
Ignitionnet
03-10-2010, 12:11
It does not bother me as i feel it will not affect me ;)
Depends I guess. If they pick on traffic that's unidentified it will affect all sorts. They wouldn't be the first operator to do that and I think that's how the ADSL shaping is set up.
Couldn't complain too much about my work VPN being shaped a bit, most work VPNs are onto 10Mbps virtual ports or won't break that level of throughput anyway.
BTW you may want to check your VPN - a number of VPN services don't actually encrypt they just tunnel.
Chrysalis
03-10-2010, 12:42
Depends I guess. If they pick on traffic that's unidentified it will affect all sorts. They wouldn't be the first operator to do that and I think that's how the ADSL shaping is set up.
Couldn't complain too much about my work VPN being shaped a bit, most work VPNs are onto 10Mbps virtual ports or won't break that level of throughput anyway.
BTW you may want to check your VPN - a number of VPN services don't actually encrypt they just tunnel.
Before samknows took the data out of public sight it revealed a few big adsl providers which had traffic on non standard ports was throttled, I cannot remember if was encrypted or not. BT was one of the isps. I agree with you VM could go either way as there is no doubt if they give the benefit of the doubt p2p traffic will slip through. However that 3-6mbit (or is it mbyte?) you revealed is good news, that is slower yes but still a respectable enough speed.
Ignitionnet
03-10-2010, 13:00
Capital 'b' - byte.
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