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shonyb
26-09-2010, 15:23
Hi Guys

Just wanted to know if anyone else out there has had their broadband speed 'capped' by the sinister 'traffic management' scheme of virgin media. I pay virgin for a 10mb broadband speed and every evening and this morning I have been capped to just 2.4mb. The answer they give me is that I am downloading too much and need to be 'capped'. Is this big brother or what? My argument is its none of their business how much I download as there are supposed to be no restrictions on how much I can download.This is a scandal and I would like to find out if others have experienced this! I have threatened to withold payment and call the Office of Fair Trading and what do they do?....put the phone down on me. If virgin cannot supply a large enough broadband width to accomodate everyone, how are they allowed to keep selling the product especially if it is getting smaller?

Any views or advice would be appreciated

yours peed off
shonyb

Kymmy
26-09-2010, 15:29
STM has never been kept a secret.. Also it's a lot fairer than invoking an FUP after just 40Gb and threatening to cut you off whilst at the same time throttling you to 1/10th of the speed like some other companies..

All they're trying to do is to keep the downloads limited to off-peak times

jb66
26-09-2010, 15:33
If you need more bandwidth, pay for it. Adsl has a natural cap by the length of the line so this is what virgin have to do to keep high bandwidth customers on the cheap package at bay.

Toto
26-09-2010, 15:37
Hi Guys

Just wanted to know if anyone else out there has had their broadband speed 'capped' by the sinister 'traffic management' scheme of virgin media. I pay virgin for a 10mb broadband speed and every evening and this morning I have been capped to just 2.4mb. The answer they give me is that I am downloading too much and need to be 'capped'. Is this big brother or what? My argument is its none of their business how much I download as there are supposed to be no restrictions on how much I can download.This is a scandal and I would like to find out if others have experienced this! I have threatened to withold payment and call the Office of Fair Trading and what do they do?....put the phone down on me. If virgin cannot supply a large enough broadband width to accomodate everyone, how are they allowed to keep selling the product especially if it is getting smaller?

Any views or advice would be appreciated

yours peed off
shonyb

You'll only shaft yourself if you don't pay, as has already been said VM's traffic management policy is well documented on its site - get used to it.

pip08456
26-09-2010, 16:35
You'll only shaft yourself if you don't pay, as has already been said VM's traffic management policy is well documented on its site - get used to it.

Well discussed on this one too.

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12/33635762-maximum-rates-daytime-evening-stm-force.html

Ignitionnet
26-09-2010, 16:47
I have threatened to withold payment and call the Office of Fair Trading and what do they do?....put the phone down on me. If virgin cannot supply a large enough broadband width to accomodate everyone, how are they allowed to keep selling the product especially if it is getting smaller?

Any views or advice would be appreciated

Withhold payment and they will cut you off and send debt collectors after you. Calling the OFT is a waste of time the products are clearly marked to indicate that a traffic management policy applies and there is no ambiguity.

The products meet the current descriptions of unlimited products, neither the OFT nor the ASA nor Ofcom will intervene.

No ISP has enough bandwidth to accommodate everyone downloading at full speed all the time, if they did the service would cost hundreds a month for 10Mbit.

If this service isn't to your requirements simply either go to 50Mbps which doesn't have any management at this time or go to another ISP which doesn't manage. That's the only advice.

. I pay virgin for a 10mb broadband speed and every evening and this morning I have been capped to just 2.4mb. The answer they give me is that I am downloading too much and need to be 'capped'. Is this big brother or what? My argument is its none of their business how much I download as there are supposed to be no restrictions on how much I can download.This is a scandal and I would like to find out if others have experienced this!

It's none of their business yet what you are downloading, must be going some to get throttled 'every' evening though. All perfectly legal I'm sure.

See the above. Nothing Big Brother about it, you rent use of their network under their terms. If you don't like the terms don't use the service. They have been extremely clear for years that the services are managed and are more transparent than most about it.

pip08456
26-09-2010, 19:42
Just in case you haven't seen it

http://www.virginmedia.com/images/traffic-management-table03082010.jpg

shonyb
27-09-2010, 10:56
Thanks everyone for the replies. Guess I'm one of those ignorant broadband virgins! Seems to me that you don't buy a car and then be told you can only drive it at certain times and at a certain speed. Oh well!

Kymmy
27-09-2010, 11:00
The arguement has been done to death, especially with the car analogy..

If you lease a car you do have limits on milage..

If you'd bother to read the signup page it has this note from the "Unlimited[1] Downloads" claim

[1]Acceptable use policy: Acceptable use policy applies. Traffic Management operates from 4pm to 9pm and 10am to 3pm to ensure a consistent user experience.

With links to the traffic management page..

royaltiger
27-09-2010, 12:06
You could argue the policy makes no sense on capping because of high demand as the 50mb is unlimited and they could be the users that are jamming the network as their bandwith is twice the size so downloading twice as much as a 20mb user and 5 times as a 10 mb user. If the network is busy then realistically you have to cap everyone if that is your argument to free up the traffic flow, you cannot leave some uncapped as they can be just as much the cause of the bottlenecks, obviously the 50mb are allowed because we pay the premium rate to do so. My theory is if you have a larger upstream bandwith you download twice as fast and are therefore finished twice as quick freeing up the network. There are some very large files about which dont take long to using up your quota, after a fresh install of windows you will reach 700mb of updates and service packs as for illegal stuff is there that much that is downloaded now. Some prefer to backup there legal copies by downloading as its easier than ripping.

Kymmy
27-09-2010, 12:33
You would be totally right if the 50Mb weren't on a different Docsis so doesn't impact on the 10/20Mb services

mjpartyboy
27-09-2010, 12:57
What annoys me is the way VM refer to it as affecting the top 5% of users.

You have never gone over the cap during your time with VM and then one night you download the latest 360 demo from the Marketplace and it's 1.9 GB, so you're throttled as advertised, but this is your first infraction so how can you be a top 5% user.

on in an hour!
27-09-2010, 13:08
You would be totally right if the 50Mb weren't on a different Docsis so doesn't impact on the 10/20Mb services

the 20 and 50meg services are on the same UBR's,and are both docsis3 ;)

AbyssUnderground
27-09-2010, 13:10
The 10Mbps package is capable of downloading 60GB/DAY even with STM triggered twice, which equates to about 1.7TeraBytes a month. That's a damn sight more than most ISP's.

Peter_
27-09-2010, 13:10
What annoys me is the way VM refer to it as affecting the top 5% of users.

You have never gone over the cap during your time with VM and then one night you download the latest 360 demo from the Marketplace and it's 1.9 GB, so you're throttled as advertised, but this is your first infraction so how can you be a top 5% user.
Anyone can be traffic managed but the main targetr is the people who continually download to excess as per this below.

In fact, the policies only affect the top 5% of users on a daily basis - those whose usage of the service would affect other users if they weren't managed.

Full details can be found here.http://shop.virginmedia.com/help/traffic-management.html

pip08456
27-09-2010, 13:12
the 20 and 50meg services are on the same UBR's,and are both docsis3 ;)

I think you are getting confused. In some areas 20Mb has been migrated to the overlay network whilst in others it is still on the legacy.

It matters not which network they are on the 20Mb modems are not DOCSIS3 capable. Don't know about the new hubs though.

Kymmy
27-09-2010, 13:18
Yep, 20Mb if migrated over is still using Docsis1.1

dgcarter
27-09-2010, 13:36
Anyone can be traffic managed but the main targetr is the people who continually download to excess as per this below.





Rubbish. Traffic management cuts in the first time and every time that you go over the limit. It doesn't 'target' anyone it's a blanket response.

Kymmy
27-09-2010, 13:37
Yes it is a blanket response but one that only effects people that decide to download during peak times....

In simple terms it does what it's designed to do

Peter_
27-09-2010, 13:48
Yes it is a blanket response but one that only effects people that decide to download during peak times....

In simple terms it does what it's designed to do
If you go over in the specified times you will be traffic managed and that goes for all other ISP's that run traffic management.

mjpartyboy
27-09-2010, 16:01
Full details can be found here.http://shop.virginmedia.com/help/traffic-management.html

I'm fully aware of the traffic management poilicies, but my argument still stands:

In fact, the policies only affect the top 5% of users on a daily basis - those whose usage of the service would affect other users if they weren't managed.

Anyone goes over the evening cap once, ever, and they are labelled as a "top 5% user." And doing this once affects other users the same as those who are constantly hammering the service.

Peter_
27-09-2010, 16:04
I'm fully aware of the traffic management poilicies, but my argument still stands:



Anyone goes over the evening cap once, ever, and they are labelled as a "top 5% user." And doing this once affects other users the same as those who are constantly hammering the service.
If I go over then I get traffic managed and have been in the past so you are not alone.

The traffic management has been well documented for a long long time and many other companies do likewise or even cut you off.

Kymmy
27-09-2010, 16:08
I'm fully aware of the traffic management poilicies, but my argument still stands:

Anyone goes over the evening cap once, ever, and they are labelled as a "top 5% user." And doing this once affects other users the same as those who are constantly hammering the service.

I think you missed out the meaning of "Daily Basis"

They're not denying that people will be effected.. What they are saying though is that only the top 5% will be effected on a daily basis.. So if you download everyday and get hit by STM every day then you are classified as being in the top 5%

In the end though you have a choice... Close the VM account and go elsewhere as moaning about it in here isn't gonna do a thing to help you

Cromulent
27-09-2010, 16:25
I'll tell you Virgins traffic management is much better than BTs who I just left. With BT you get 100GB a month and thats it. Even if you do all your downloading after midnight. Go over that and you are throttled for the rest of the month!

At least with Virgin you know you can download as much as you like after 10 or whatever. There is plenty of software available that allows you to start downloading automatically at a given time without you needing to stay up late etc.

Kymmy
27-09-2010, 16:41
And BT's being generous compared to a lot of Unlimited ADSL plans, Orange allows you 40Gb's before sending you threatening letters then taking action, Demon Office Home was 60Gb and throttled me down to 192Kb download between 8am and 6pm

TonyHoyle
27-09-2010, 19:04
And BT's being generous compared to a lot of Unlimited ADSL plans, Orange allows you 40Gb's before sending you threatening letters then taking action, Demon Office Home was 60Gb and throttled me down to 192Kb download between 8am and 6pm

OTOH I can theoretically download 12TB* in a month with my ADSL line.. it all depends on who you go with. VM would have cut me off long before that.

You have to decide your usage and then find someone who will provide you with that. moaning about throttling *after* purchasing the product means you didn't do your research. There are options for every kind of use and every budget if you look.


* With a following wind, and if I stick to the right time of night...

Kymmy
27-09-2010, 20:24
Actually you mean 12Tb.. A 10Mb connection would give you 2.5TB a month download at full speed (that's 1MB per second *60 seconds *60minutes *24hours *30days)

Even if you took away the 10 hours for STM that's over 1TB a month throttle free downloading.. That's still high up in the rankings of allowable downloads per ISP

TonyHoyle
27-09-2010, 20:51
No 12TB.

Unachievable in speed terms (even on FTTC I think - although bonded FTTC could do it, at a price) but within my current limits.

VM have been known to send out warnings at 150GB.. doubt they'd let you hit the TB range without passing comment. They're not a high traffic ISP.. which is fine, as they're not claiming to sell that kind of connection.

Ignitionnet
27-09-2010, 21:54
There are people on 50Mbit who have actually downloaded multiple TB / month without incident as opposed to picking numbers out the hat and theorising. So it's not about doubts, they have allowed people to hit the TB range without comment.

No-one has any idea how your ISP would react to that level of usage (>10TB/month) given they don't have a product that can get close to it.

oldjoe
16-05-2012, 16:07
A lot of you guys seem to work for Virgin media? Perhaps I am simple but I pay for for 100mbs with VM and should recieve a minimum of 50mbs even at busy times (even ignoring this 50% reduction contained in the small print in the terms and conditions ) I usually get about 6mbs ( even on ethernet link ) I don't download much so don't hit any capping nonsense. I don't see how a company can advertise "really fast broadband" and provide a really slow broadband within the law? This forum is quite aggressive in it's response to the person who actually expected the ISP provider to do what it said it would do . I don't understand why , am I missing something here?

Hugh
16-05-2012, 16:10
You do realise you are responding to a thread from two years ago, don't you?

oldjoe
16-05-2012, 16:23
I did after I sent it ! perhaps I am an idiot! but thanks for telling me-seems a good forum though so I'll have a browse-best wishes

jempalmer
16-05-2012, 16:47
It's an excellent forum, welcome :D