View Full Version : 50Mb user claims FUP invoked
kwikbreaks
07-07-2010, 20:41
Over on TBB in the general forum an anonymous poster is claiming to be on 50Mbps (although he quoted the price incorrectly) and received a letter complaining about his usage. He also says when phoning he was told that 150GB was the level at which VM may take action.
It doesn't look to be a total fabrication as he put up a copy of the letter..
http://s821.photobucket.com/albums/zz138/thomasm2010/?action=view¤t=letterfromvirgin.jpg
This is contrary to all I've read about VM and 150GB limit for a 50Mbps user seems to me to be stingy given the price. O2 LLU on ADSL can cost as little as £7.50 and they have never to my knowledge invoked their FUP.
If this is true then what is the point of introducing 100Mbps - the only reason that makes any sense taking 50Mbps is for bulk downloading.
There's nothing on the letter referencing 50Mb, also the fold line looks like the letter has been stored for some time..
I'd err on the side of troll with that one
He is without doubt trolling in that forum as 50Mb is still not traffic managed and the present system has not been changed since 12/5/09.
kwikbreaks
07-07-2010, 20:54
There's nothing on the letter referencing 50Mb, also the fold line looks like the letter has been stored for some time..
I'd err on the side of troll with that oneI'm inclined to agree about the trolling but I imagine all that would appear above the fold is his name and address. The real question is why.
No, the fold lower down, a crease like that only appears over time.. when's he claiming he got the letter?
There's nothing on the letter referencing 50Mb, also the fold line looks like the letter has been stored for some time..
I'd err on the side of troll with that one
The only users i have heard of that have had a letter up to now are 20 meg and below ???
Could the forum ask VM for a statement to confirm or deny this maybe ???
Hmm! Why can't I zoom in to the image..I can't even read it..plus unless we see the heading we cannot check the date or authenticity.:erm:
Hmm! Why can't I zoom in to the image..I can't even read it..plus unless we see the heading we cannot check the date or authenticity.:erm:
It is a standard letter by the look of it, no idea of its legitimacy.
As you use Firefox just hold CTRL down and keep pressing the + button to zoom in on the page and - to zoom out.;)
As far as I'm aware the AUP (which is seperate to STM) applies to all broadband customers - 50Mbit included
So it is possible a 50Mbit customer may get a letter like that.
Down the Pub
07-07-2010, 22:28
There's nothing on the letter referencing 50Mb, also the fold line looks like the letter has been stored for some time..
I'd err on the side of troll with that one
No, the fold lower down, a crease like that only appears over time.. when's he claiming he got the letter?
no ref to 50mb at all, and it looks like a bit of an after thought to try and prove a point
It is a standard letter by the look of it, no idea of its legitimacy.
As you use Firefox just hold CTRL down and keep pressing the + button to zoom in on the page and - to zoom out.;)
it is one of those generic warning letters which looks like it's seen better days. afaik 50mb users shouldn't get them as it's unrestricted so to speak - my mate hammers his (mainly for project/drawing packages ;)) and he's never had one. it was asked in the thread to prove he was on 50mb - conspicuous by hs scilence there.
---------- Post added at 22:28 ---------- Previous post was at 22:26 ----------
As far as I'm aware the AUP (which is seperate to STM) applies to all broadband customers - 50Mbit included
So it is possible a 50Mbit customer may get a letter like that.
wouldn't be more applicable if was for d/l morning, noon & night, rather that large ammounts in shorter times?
wouldn't be more applicable if was for d/l morning, noon & night, rather that large ammounts in shorter times?I suppose it depends what is detremental to other users as per this clause from the AUP
3.2.1. Virgin Media does not place a limit on monthly network usage. However, in isolated cases (currently less than 0.1% of customers) where excessive network usage at busy times (9am to 9pm) is having a detrimental effect on other users, we may need to take appropriate action in accordance with the terms of this AUP to notify users of the impact they are having and require them to move some of their activity into the less busy period.
Down the Pub
07-07-2010, 22:46
granted, but 150gb isn't exactly much - esp for a top tier service. if he'd done it in 24-48hrs would the system have flagged it or is it over a longer time frame?
sounds like a bit of cock & bull - sounds more like he's been hammering 24/7 ( as near makes no difference) or something has caused it to be flagged, you know like the false positives where people have had stm triggered but haven't done anything or d/l anywhere near the ammount to trigger it
broadbandking
07-07-2010, 22:50
I very much doubt 150Gb is the limit, if he was told that then the person he spoke had no idea what they are talking about, I have downloaded over 150gb in a month and o look no letter.
Down the Pub
07-07-2010, 22:54
I very much doubt 150Gb is the limit, if he was told that then the person he spoke had no idea what they are talking about, I have downloaded over 150gb in a month and o look no letter.
i wonder who could have told him that then? :confused:
Don't quote me on this, but I think whether Virgin consider invoking the AUP is fairly dependent on your area. It's not a whole network thing (well it is, but you know what I mean!)
Ignitionnet
07-07-2010, 23:00
He is without doubt trolling in that forum as 50Mb is still not traffic managed and the present system has not been changed since 12/5/09.
This isn't STM.
I'm surprised you've not taken any calls from people who've had one of these letters over 300 are being sent each month. They're nothing to do with STM.
Seems perfectly legitimate, people in this thread seem all too eager to disbelieve the guy. He posted a speedtest when asked to prove he was on 50Mbps and there's nothing in the AUP indicating that 50Mbps customers are exempt, indeed it's quite surprising that we've not seen complaints from 50M customers given the ridiculous amounts of usage during peak and off-peak some have.
The 150GB limit sounds like CS-BS, however you guys trying to say the guy is making it up due to this note that apparently they told him that people may be contacted after 150GB, not a hard limit after which someone will be cancelled. It wouldn't actually surprise if that is roughly the level that puts a person into the top 0.1%.
There's been little pattern evident in the sending of these letters so far, no reason to think this has changed :)
This isn't STM.
I'm surprised you've not taken any calls from people who've had one of these letters over 300 are being sent each month. They're nothing to do with STM.
Seems perfectly legitimate, people in this thread seem all too eager to disbelieve the guy. He posted a speedtest when asked to prove he was on 50Mbps and there's nothing in the AUP indicating that 50Mbps customers are exempt, indeed it's quite surprising that we've not seen complaints from 50M customers given the ridiculous amounts of usage during peak and off-peak some have.
The 150GB limit sounds like CS-BS, however you guys trying to say the guy is making it up due to this note that apparently they told him that people may be contacted after 150GB, not a hard limit after which someone will be cancelled. It wouldn't actually surprise if that is roughly the level that puts a person into the top 0.1%.
There's been little pattern evident in the sending of these letters so far, no reason to think this has changed :)
We have not been told of any changes to the AUP hence the referral to STM as all 50Mb customers were told the were no restrictions on that tier.
We can only work with the information we have at the moment.:)
kwikbreaks
08-07-2010, 07:46
150Gb a month may put someone in the top 0.1% or not but a 20Mbps user can exceed 300Gb in peak time without hitting the STM limits so bitching at a 50Mbps user for using 150GB or so (which is what is being claimed) is either strange or BS. I've not been with VM long enough to fathom out which.
Ignitionnet
08-07-2010, 10:07
We have not been told of any changes to the AUP hence the referral to STM as all 50Mb customers were told the were no restrictions on that tier.
We can only work with the information we have at the moment.:)
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34899355-post1.html
From October - is this incorrect, it says nothing about 50Mbps being exempted only a suggestion to upsell it as having no traffic management / STM which is of course not the issue here as this policy runs separately?
150Gb a month may put someone in the top 0.1% or not but a 20Mbps user can exceed 300Gb in peak time without hitting the STM limits so bitching at a 50Mbps user for using 150GB or so (which is what is being claimed) is either strange or BS. I've not been with VM long enough to fathom out which.
This isn't STM, it's detremental use.
I assumed that the way it worked was dependent on the situation e.g. that if in an area there is high utilisation of the network and someone downloads enough to cause others issues, that would be detremental.
However if in another area with low utilisation, the same amount downloaded would not impact others in the same way, so it may not be classed as detremental
Also as far as I'm aware, you can still have detremental use on a package that has STM - because of the impact it has on others
Remember all they are asking customers to do is move the usage to outside the peak times - they aren't threatening to cut them off or force them to change package
Chrysalis
08-07-2010, 11:39
yeah I would be very surprised if 50mbit was excempt from the AUP/FUP. Totally different things from STM.
random_guy
08-07-2010, 12:34
Hi, I understand why some members here don't believe that letter is not real and its a old letter. Well, I just opened my letter today and I recieved a letter from VM.
I censored out my details and my account number. But it has a clear date when the letter was sent. I also included a speedtest result to prove that Im with the 50mb.
http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/7277/imgp1445c.jpg
Download Failed (1) (http://img576.imageshack.us/i/imgp1445c.jpg/)
10:30am
http://www.speedtest.net/result/872829435.png
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2010/07/23.png (http://www.speedtest.net)
11am
http://www.speedtest.net/result/872863541.png
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2010/07/24.png (http://www.speedtest.net)
I dont know what the limit VM sets but last week, I went a bit crazy on my week off and did like 20-30GB per day for 4 days during VM's peak hours.
Hi, I understand why some members here don't believe that letter is not real and its a old letter. Well, I just opened my letter today and I recieved a letter from VM.
I censored out my details and my account number. But it has a clear date when the letter was sent. I also included a speedtest result to prove that Im with the 50mb.
http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/7277/imgp1445c.jpg
http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/7277/imgp1445c.th.jpg (http://img576.imageshack.us/i/imgp1445c.jpg/)
[/URL]
[URL="http://www.speedtest.net"] (http://www.speedtest.net/result/872863541.png)
I dont know what the limit VM sets but last week, I went a bit crazy on my week off and did like 20-30GB per day for 4 days during VM's peak hours.
Well it looks genuine enough so just lay of downloading heavily and you should not receive another letter.
random_guy
08-07-2010, 13:20
Well it looks genuine enough so just lay of downloading heavily and you should not receive another letter.
I've stopped now, I also installed ttbMeter to monitor my usage. Currently i capped my internet to 2GB during VM's peak hours. That should be enough for 2 BBC iplayers shows/documentaries and other stuff per night. =D
I did 200 down and 60 up last month. No letter at all.
pip08456
08-07-2010, 18:39
I did 200 down and 60 up last month. No letter at all.
That's nothing I did 200 both ways and 300 down + 200 up in May! Not a usual scenario but ..............
I probably do that on 10Mb ;)
Ignitionnet
08-07-2010, 19:04
I am totally mystified as to how you guys can use that much. I do maybe 100GB/month including extensive iPlayer and You Tube usage. I say me I refer to myself, Mrs Ignitionnet and Mini-Ignitionnet.
Would be interesting to know how you guys are using so much, in both directions. I must be missing out!
I am totally mystified as to how you guys can use that much. I do maybe 100GB/month including extensive iPlayer and You Tube usage. I say me I refer to myself, Mrs Ignitionnet and Mini-Ignitionnet.
Would be interesting to know how you guys are using so much, in both directions. I must be missing out!
Mine is all one way as i don't use torrents.
It is far to easy to show up on the radar of the sue sue sue lawyers being deployed by the music industry using torrents, no matter how private you think they are.
Remember this VM have there own system called detica for just that reason. And i know before you say that news groups service can just as easily be detected by detica but it is download not upload and i may be wrong but its the up loaders there after.
News and FTP all the way for me
Mine is a good proportion up, but that's mainly the webservers and mail..
Ignitionnet
08-07-2010, 19:29
Mine is a good proportion up, but that's mainly the webservers and mail..
On a 768kbps upstream 200GB/month up is good going. Popular webserver!
LOL, I didn;t say the upstream was that high ;) but it's not bad for the speed
pip08456
08-07-2010, 19:51
I am totally mystified as to how you guys can use that much. I do maybe 100GB/month including extensive iPlayer and You Tube usage. I say me I refer to myself, Mrs Ignitionnet and Mini-Ignitionnet.
Would be interesting to know how you guys are using so much, in both directions. I must be missing out!
Well Igni, when you consider I have my full music/video collection (legally got but back-ups are somewhat of a grey issue) and I have 3 HDD's 300GB, 350GBx2 and the fact that I have a server in USA where I uploaded a back-up to so that I don't lose them and then downloading the back-up to a removable 1TB drive over a period, then it is not all that impossible.
The reason the last 2 months were heavy is that I had a clear out and needed to start again, not unusual but only happens on rare occasions.
kwikbreaks
09-07-2010, 08:26
back-ups are somewhat of a grey issueActually they aren't.
I don't think any media rights owner permits copying of their material for any reason at all without express permission. Of course if you wrote to them about every film and every track and they said yes......
Not that I care either way :)
I have also received the same kind letter from Virgin titles "Detrimental use of your broadband connection". On XXL 50Mbps. Just checking some stats, and I must have done around 300GB last month, which I can't see that being that high an average.
Seeing as theoretically maxing my connection for a full 30 day month would be around 15820GB of data (only down), I'm using approximately 2% of the total bandwidth available to me. Now, I know it doesn't quite work like that, and there's peak times and all that...but there's a reason I pay for the top tier - so I can download anywhere between 2-10GB/day. My average over the last 6 months is about 150GB/month.
They've been nice enough to ask me to do the bulk of downloading 9pm to 9am, which I should be able to comply with, or at least cap speeds. It's a bit meh though paying for the top tier and getting warnings at this level. Sure if I'd done 100GB+ between 9am to 9pm on one day I'd maybe expect a bit of a notice.
Anyway, life goes on.
broadbandking
10-07-2010, 17:50
I am wondering how people use so much, but I guess there are ways, I just don't know them lol
I am wondering how people use so much, but I guess there are ways, I just don't know them lol
About 2 hours of compressed HD content (iTunes, Netflix, etc) runs at about 5-9GB. It's not unreasonable to think that a family could watch that amount per day over the course of a month - in fact, quite easily.
I appreciate not everyone is the same, but all I'm saying, is that someone fitting that profile is going to pay for a premium broadband package, and find it hard to understand why their usage is considered unacceptable/detrimental.
AbyssUnderground
13-07-2010, 12:30
I've done 880GB in a month on 10Mbps before and no letter. In fact I frequently did over 500GB each month and no letter, and I did this for 8 months on the trot, frequently maxing it out for days at a time.
broadbandking
13-07-2010, 16:14
About 2 hours of compressed HD content (iTunes, Netflix, etc) runs at about 5-9GB. It's not unreasonable to think that a family could watch that amount per day over the course of a month - in fact, quite easily.
I appreciate not everyone is the same, but all I'm saying, is that someone fitting that profile is going to pay for a premium broadband package, and find it hard to understand why their usage is considered unacceptable/detrimental.
150Gb i can understand just when people do 500Gb plus a month is what I meant
This one no-one is going to believe, but I swear its true. I am on a 50MB service, during the course of which I was informed that I was one of only 4 in my area! OooO.. anyway
I get a letter stating that I am downloading too much and I am quite surprised. We have 6 PC's here (2 adults and all my kids) and we are all net heavy but dont download using bittorrent. I get asked to move my download times from daytime to after 9pm (when the kids are in bed anyway).. I push and push to complain that I shouldn't be getting these restrictions and the young man on the phone says he can find anything on 'my records'. I get put through to someone else who says that I have downloaded in the last week alone 9GB.
Well well.. anyway I shrug it off and explain that basically youtube, xbox, ps3, PC's all use the bandwidth and I did explain my usage pattern to the sales team who assured me that the 50MB service was unmetered.
I get through to a 3rd person who basically mentions another day in another month where in one day I have done 13GB.. I did explain I don't torrent, but I do use usenet for downloading TV shows (I know I know), was it a usenet transfer. He said he couldn't tell me. They want me to believe they cant tell me which ports were used. I have checked my usenet client and sure enough the total transfer on average is 10GB a week. I do not use bittorrent.
A third person says the other two are 'talking tosh', to tear up the letter and continue (after I volunteered to go down to 2MB and not download).
What the hell? a letter for 9GB. Looks like I will be getting a lot of those letters when the kids break up from school...
General Maximus
19-07-2010, 17:42
something is wrong here dude because I download 50-70gb a week with at least 30 coming from usenet and I have never had a letter
This one no-one is going to believe, but I swear its true. I am on a 50MB service, during the course of which I was informed that I was one of only 4 in my area! OooO.. anyway
I get a letter stating that I am downloading too much and I am quite surprised. We have 6 PC's here (2 adults and all my kids) and we are all net heavy but dont download using bittorrent. I get asked to move my download times from daytime to after 9pm (when the kids are in bed anyway).. I push and push to complain that I shouldn't be getting these restrictions and the young man on the phone says he can find anything on 'my records'. I get put through to someone else who says that I have downloaded in the last week alone 9GB.
Well well.. anyway I shrug it off and explain that basically youtube, xbox, ps3, PC's all use the bandwidth and I did explain my usage pattern to the sales team who assured me that the 50MB service was unmetered.
I get through to a 3rd person who basically mentions another day in another month where in one day I have done 13GB.. I did explain I don't torrent, but I do use usenet for downloading TV shows (I know I know), was it a usenet transfer. He said he couldn't tell me. They want me to believe they cant tell me which ports were used. I have checked my usenet client and sure enough the total transfer on average is 10GB a week. I do not use bittorrent.
A third person says the other two are 'talking tosh', to tear up the letter and continue (after I volunteered to go down to 2MB and not download).
What the hell? a letter for 9GB. Looks like I will be getting a lot of those letters when the kids break up from school...
Ask them to put it in writing what the level is that you have been asked not to exceed
I was actually annoyed and angered by the comment when I called the number on the letter. The guy's attitude was 'well you did download 9GB on one day'. My understanding of abusing the service would mean maxing out the connection continuously. Now if they had written a letter in a nice way, requesting I timeshift I would have probably complied, now I think screw them. All it has done is made me regret dumping my last ISP who had absolutely no limit.
I am just pleased I got this letter before I signed up to the TV package, something I will now not be doing.
---------- Post added at 21:46 ---------- Previous post was at 21:44 ----------
Ask them to put it in writing what the level is that you have been asked not to exceed
They would not tell me because the person on the phone connected to the letter tells me he cannot not will not tell me, upon being put through to various departments I was told about the 9GB. I cannot get the complaint in writing with amounts because that can only be handled by the first guy.
General Maximus
20-07-2010, 22:22
i still think it is dodgy dude. I have no probs maxing out my connection and i have downloaded 40gb in 2 hours from newsgroups many a time in the afternoon and I have never had a letter
RainmakerRaw
21-07-2010, 11:20
I must admit this is quite lol-worthy really. What VM advertise and what they deliver is typically inconsistent. The headline/sales pitch reads:
Unlimited downloads
We think you deserve more. So no matter which of our fibre optic broadband packages you chose, you get unlimited1 downloads. That means you can download as much music, as many films and as many photos as you want without having to worry about going over any kind of limit.But that little number 1 leads you to the AUP which states:
3.2.1. Virgin Media does not place a limit on monthly network usage. However, in isolated cases (currently less than 0.1% of customers) where excessive network usage at busy times (9am to 9pm) is having a detrimental effect on other users, we may need to take appropriate action in accordance with the terms of this AUP to notify users of the impact they are having and require them to move some of their activity into the less busy period.So basically, you have 'unlimited' downloads 'without having to worry' (provided you don't use too much, but we can't tell you how much that is - but hey don't worry)... I'm sorry, but LOL...
EDIT: Oh, and if 9GB a day puts you in the top 0.1% of customers, I'll eat my shorts. :p:
well he prob folded it to move his details out of view.
i dont know anyone sad enough to fake this sort of thing.
but if its true then something should be done about it,
150GB is not the same as the unlimited no traffic
management i saw when i signed up for 50mb.
who knows
broadbandking
21-07-2010, 11:59
9Gb sounds like the guy you spoke to was talking out of his ass.
kwikbreaks
21-07-2010, 15:07
I wonder if all those who received the letter were using torrents.
Maybe it is excessive upstream use which VM are finding unacceptable. If this is the case I seriously hope that the increased upstream speeds are matched with even more serious increases in upstream capacity.
General Maximus
21-07-2010, 18:18
well when you put it like that it sounds like one of those things that needs to go on something like I've Got News for You so it can be ripped to pieces :)
PeteLockwood
21-07-2010, 20:18
guys, i also recieved this very letter today it specifies no limits so they recieved a very angry phone call he said i downloaded 32 gig that is all would not say wether it was in a day week month what i jjust said if i recieve another letter you can get stuffed when i signed up to the service the 50 meg had NO LIMITS if you wish to impose them now, stuff your contract where the sun dont shine
AbyssUnderground
22-07-2010, 12:17
See the problem is they now realise people want to actually use their broadband, and when they do they get angry. Show them you don't care and max it out day in day out. I would (and have in the past). Might make them think twice about offering something they can't provide.
PeteLockwood
22-07-2010, 15:11
I wonder if all those who received the letter were using torrents.
Maybe it is excessive upstream use which VM are finding unacceptable. If this is the case I seriously hope that the increased upstream speeds are matched with even more serious increases in upstream capacity.
missed this post sorry, no i use NO torrents at all EVER i only use usenet and not even to a mega extent
kwikbreaks
22-07-2010, 15:42
Ah well that's my theory down the toilet then.... http://www.kwikbreaks.webspace.virginmedia.com/smilies/cry.gif
pip08456
22-07-2010, 15:58
Not that it should make any difference ATM.
broadbandking
22-07-2010, 18:12
guys, i also recieved this very letter today it specifies no limits so they recieved a very angry phone call he said i downloaded 32 gig that is all would not say wether it was in a day week month what i jjust said if i recieve another letter you can get stuffed when i signed up to the service the 50 meg had NO LIMITS if you wish to impose them now, stuff your contract where the sun dont shine
I am not saying VM are right but the FUP has always been there, so they have every right to send the letters, they are not imposing a limit thay are just saying move it to another time thats all.
PeteLockwood
22-07-2010, 21:03
no, incorrect, it CLEARLY stated when i signed up ABSOLUTELY NO LIMITS they since changed the terms and conditions... if i recieve another letter they can get fooked
pip08456
23-07-2010, 00:19
Sorry Pete but if you actually read the small print the FUP is there and hasn't changed for a long time.
That said they just seem to pull a name out of a hat to send a letter to and I would tend to do as Abyss has said if I were to get one.
Chrysalis
23-07-2010, 12:03
I may soon find out if its uploads, as I am remote desktop to my home at the moment nearly all day.
Robbie G
23-07-2010, 12:48
A 50Mb user on OcUK's forums the other day received a letter from VM requiring that he shifts his downloading patterns to 9pm - 9am invoking AUP. PeteL I'm sorry but you are wrong, they can and are doing this.
Personally I see nothing wrong with this, downloading whilst asleep makes the most sense to me. The 50Mb service is a great one imo and I want it to stay that way.
Personally I see nothing wrong with this, downloading whilst asleep makes the most sense to me.
And then when everyone does that nonsense they all get letters asking if they can set their alarm clocks and start them at 3am in the morning. then if at all possible just browse the web and read your emails at all other hours.
Robbie G
23-07-2010, 13:59
And then when everyone does that nonsense they all get letters asking if they can set their alarm clocks and start them at 3am in the morning. then if at all possible just browse the web and read your emails at all other hours.
My belief is that even if 100% of 50Mb users are high bandwidth users and if they all shift their downloading to 9pm-9am, this would be preferable to VM because they only affect other downloaders.
Surely for VM, the more 50Mb users that switch their downloading to nights the better, as these users will affect less 'every day' users that simply come home from work, check their email and browse BBC News with maybe a bit of iPlayer after dinner.
Therefore if 100% of 50Mb users stopped downloading in the day time, they would not then ask the people that shifted to post 9pm to stop downloading at that time and move to 3am instead, because they would not need to.
Please note I am not saying what I think is right or wrong. Personally if I was paying that much for an 'unlimited' service, I would want to be able to do it when I damn well wanted. I am simply looking at it from a practical / VM point of view.
pip08456
23-07-2010, 14:52
From a practical point of view, then considering VM are expected to be upgrading the system for 100Mb then it should be able to handle the 70,000ish present 50Mb users (nationwide) downloading what they want when they want.
IMO if congestion is happening with the 50Mb service then VM need to get their contention ratios sorted out.
Robbie G
23-07-2010, 14:53
From a practical point of view, then considering VM are expected to be upgrading the system for 100Mb then it should be able to handle the 70,000ish present 50Mb users (nationwide) downloading what they want when they want.
IMO if congestion is happening with the 50Mb service then VM need to get their contention ratios sorted out.
Their ideal scenario though is to keep pushing up advertised speeds, even if it means not to be able to support those advertised speeds :D. To them it's more important to have a 200Mb service and restrict high bandwidth users to off peak periods than to have a genuinely 100% unlimited balanced 20Mb service.
pip08456
23-07-2010, 15:11
But I was just looking at it from a practical point of view rather than a practical/VM point of view. :D:D:D
PeteLockwood
23-07-2010, 16:11
robbie, you may be happy paying good money for a service that is not recieved as advertised, but i am certainly ****ed off
robbie, you may be happy paying good money for a service that is not recieved as advertised, but i am certainly ****ed off
Why?? All they are doing is asking you to be a bit more thoughtful as to other users on a finite resource.. They haven't yet put any restrictions on your account have they??
pip08456
23-07-2010, 16:45
Oh Kymmy, no one says it is an infinite resource just that it is not the way it is marketed and the expectation of the customer due to that.
Also it seems that they are sending the letter to customers who are not really using the service to the full extent as advertised, most likely due to congestion ( can't see any other reason).
As my PC is on 24/7 it matters not to me but there are many who are not happy leaving the PC on.
kwikbreaks
23-07-2010, 17:02
I may soon find out if its uploads, as I am remote desktop to my home at the moment nearly all day.That uses virtually nothing mate - at least neither LogMeIn nor VNC do.
---------- Post added at 17:02 ---------- Previous post was at 16:50 ----------
IMO it's not unreasonable to restrict most downloads to overnight. In the days when I was with Entanet they used to show the loadings on their centrals and once you got past midnight there was shedloads of bandwidth available - enough for more Linux distros than anyone could ever install :rolleyes:
PusNet have graphs of their total traffic on http://www.plus.net/support/network_performance/broadband_bandwidth_usage.shtml#usage and that shows plenty of capacity overnight too. I imagine it is th sam with every ISP.
Where the problem really lies is in the VM marketing - they say download what you like in all the adverts along with fastest broadband in the land but the capacity installed doesn't allow that to be true hence the letters which are getting right up peoples noses and rightly so because the AUP is rather hidden away in the small print and the expectations of 50Mbps customers is that there are no restrictions.
PeteLockwood
23-07-2010, 19:14
Why?? All they are doing is asking you to be a bit more thoughtful as to other users on a finite resource.. They haven't yet put any restrictions on your account have they??
no restrictions, then WHY DID THEY SELL ME A PRODUCT THEY CAN NOT PROVIDE ?
its like getting your shopping online only half is delivered but they still want to charge you full price ? NOT A CHANCE
no restrictions, then WHY DID THEY SELL ME A PRODUCT THEY CAN NOT PROVIDE ?
No need to shout ;)
Do you understand the concept of a shared finite resource?? Also the simple fact that you also signed up to an FUP??
:rolleyes:
broadbandking
23-07-2010, 19:42
Why would someone want to max the download speed 24/7, it just daft and these people are only downloading illegal contents, no one needs to make out there connection all day everyday, people can argue I need to but you don't name me one reason you would need to do this with a res account.
PeteLockwood
23-07-2010, 20:29
No need to shout ;)
Do you understand the concept of a shared finite resource?? Also the simple fact that you also signed up to an FUP??
:rolleyes:
you mean the fup which clearly advertised ZERO LIMITS on 50 meg then they go sending me silly letters because i have used my internet for a time which equates to 1 and a half hours usage... for real ?
You mean that if you click the "More about Boadband speeds" link on the 50Mb product page that takes you to the Broadband speeds explained (http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/broadband/speed.html) page which states
And it's totally unlimited?
Yes. There's no limit to the amount you can download and use your connection with Virgin Media. However like other providers we do operate an "acceptable use" policy. This protects the majority of our customers suffering slower speeds as a result of a few users' unusually heavy usage'
If though you're getting a letter you don't believe you deserve then contact CS and explain to them that.. Moaning on here isn't gonna help you as much as they can
PeteLockwood
24-07-2010, 05:25
the call centre staff don't even speak english... like i said iget 1 more letter they will have some fun getting money out of me :)
the call centre staff don't even speak english... like i said iget 1 more letter they will have some fun getting money out of me :)
I wonder what language I speak then.;)
It is not worth getting your credit rating damaged by refusing payment to any company as it hurts you not them in the end.
the call centre staff don't even speak english... like i said iget 1 more letter they will have some fun getting money out of me :)
What an absolutely ridiculous statement to make.
If you're not going to pay your bill you can expect two things.
1) Suspension or termination of service, with additional costs outside of the outstanding amount owing if you are still in contract.
2) Your debt referred to a collection agency with a real risk of a mark against your credit rating, something no one can afford to happen right now.
Look, you have been shown by a number of different posters that you are subject to certain rules and conditions despite being on an unlimited service, and that despite your protests to the contrary, YOU are on a shared service and YOUR activity CAN have a negative impact on the network for other users.
Seems like this thread has turned into a "Let's blame VM because I'm too stupid to read the contract" sort of thread.
:D
kwikbreaks
24-07-2010, 08:47
Seems like this thread has turned into a "Let's blame VM because I'm too stupid to read the contract" sort of thread.
:DIt seems to me that the VM marketing guys are too stupid to read their own companies contracts. Of course in that they are far from being alone and anybody familiar with the UK broadband scene should know full well that none of the advertising claims are ever the truth.
Perhaps we should blame the Advertising Standards Authority.
It is all in the Terms and Conditions (http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/legal/oncable/terms.html).
Acceptable use Policy (http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/legal/oncable/acceptableuse.html) 3. Use of the Services
3.2.1. Virgin Media does not place a limit on monthly network usage. However, in isolated cases (currently less than 0.1% of customers) where excessive network usage at busy times (9am to 9pm) is having a detrimental effect on other users, we may need to take appropriate action in accordance with the terms of this AUP to notify users of the impact they are having and require them to move some of their activity into the less busy period.
Traffic management (http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/internet/traffic.html)
It is all in the Terms and Conditions (http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/legal/oncable/terms.html).
Acceptable use Policy (http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/legal/oncable/acceptableuse.html) 3. Use of the Services
Traffic management (http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/internet/traffic.html)
As I posted HERE (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/35061470-post73.html) it is directly linked to from the 50Mb product page
TonyHoyle
24-07-2010, 10:09
I am totally mystified as to how you guys can use that much. I do maybe 100GB/month including extensive iPlayer and You Tube usage. I say me I refer to myself, Mrs Ignitionnet and Mini-Ignitionnet.
Would be interesting to know how you guys are using so much, in both directions. I must be missing out!
100Gb is an average month for me.. My job means I spend a lot of time on the internet. I did 586Gb in February :p
Bit surprised someone would think 100Gb was a lot? That's only 3Gb a day. Or to put it in simpler terms, only 3.5 hours of iplayer a day. TBH the background chatter from the servers is probably half my use.
I use virgin only as a pipe to my real ISP who provide things that virgin can't (multiple IPs, uptime monitoring, ipv6, etc.) so all they see is an L2TP tunnel going to a single point.
100Gb is an average month for me.. My job means I spend a lot of time on the internet. I did 586Gb in February :p
Bit surprised someone would think 100Gb was a lot? That's only 3Gb a day. Or to put it in simpler terms, only 3.5 hours of iplayer a day. TBH the background chatter from the servers is probably half my use.
I use virgin only as a pipe to my real ISP who provide things that virgin can't (multiple IPs, uptime monitoring, ipv6, etc.) so all they see is an L2TP tunnel going to a single point.
Yes that may be the case for you, but the FUP is not about the traffic type, its about volume.
They are not interested in what the traffic is, but the volume of traffic in relation to the affect it has on other users on that part of the network.
As I posted HERE (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/35061470-post73.html) it is directly linked to from the 50Mb product page
I linked to all 3 pages thats all.;)
broadbandking
24-07-2010, 12:27
For someone who speaks no English you sure write good Masque.
Chrysalis
24-07-2010, 15:32
From a practical point of view, then considering VM are expected to be upgrading the system for 100Mb then it should be able to handle the 70,000ish present 50Mb users (nationwide) downloading what they want when they want.
IMO if congestion is happening with the 50Mb service then VM need to get their contention ratios sorted out.
some of us have been saying this for months, sort out the contention ratios before making new higher demand products, but ignition will be here to tell me its only a small minority of the network in trouble. :erm:
---------- Post added at 15:32 ---------- Previous post was at 15:24 ----------
That uses virtually nothing mate - at least neither LogMeIn nor VNC do.
---------- Post added at 17:02 ---------- Previous post was at 16:50 ----------
IMO it's not unreasonable to restrict most downloads to overnight. In the days when I was with Entanet they used to show the loadings on their centrals and once you got past midnight there was shedloads of bandwidth available - enough for more Linux distros than anyone could ever install :rolleyes:
PusNet have graphs of their total traffic on http://www.plus.net/support/network_performance/broadband_bandwidth_usage.shtml#usage and that shows plenty of capacity overnight too. I imagine it is th sam with every ISP.
Where the problem really lies is in the VM marketing - they say download what you like in all the adverts along with fastest broadband in the land but the capacity installed doesn't allow that to be true hence the letters which are getting right up peoples noses and rightly so because the AUP is rather hidden away in the small print and the expectations of 50Mbps customers is that there are no restrictions.
its not just that, but with isps like plusnet and entanet everyone was in the same boat, you could do things like jump to a better central. On VM if you on a bad postcode its not even possible to get seperated from others in your area.
Regarding remote desktop it may not use much bandwidth but my connection is certianly struggling to handle it, I should have hosted it over ukonline but was worried about the BT line going down everytime someone farts. Since my initial RD connection my latency graph has gone crazy high, stays high even when logged out of RD. Either my pc still sends the RD data out when not connected or something odd going on. At the moment my home pc gets D on pingtest.net and under 10mbit on speedtest.net, by at the moment I mean all times I have tried it the last few days so not just now the weekend.
The rules are soon to change tho on marketing, the ASA and ofcom have recently done a U turn.
kwikbreaks
24-07-2010, 17:58
> Regarding remote desktop it may not use much bandwidth but my connection is certianly struggling to handle it
You certainly have a problem with your connection then. I regularly control my 24x7 machine using LogMeIn via Vodafone mobile broadband - from memory it uses only ~ 100 kbps and certainly apart from limited colours it isn't much different from sitting at home. You wouldn't be able to watch movies on it obviously as the refresh rate for that is far too slow.
> The rules are soon to change tho on marketing, the ASA and ofcom have recently done a U turn.
IMO Ofcom worry far too much about headline speeds (ie sync rates on ADSL) and not enough about hidden download caps and evening slowdowns due to contention.
Chrysalis
24-07-2010, 21:10
indeed I do, I see remote desktop averaging about 2-5kb/upload but is occasionally spiking above my VM cap but its lagging all the time and on speedtests now always below 0.3mbit.
PeteLockwood
25-07-2010, 08:47
they are not providing a service they sold me (from the phone call when i initially ordered i was told by the CS on the phone (recorded there end obviously) totaly unlimited... no caps or shaping (i asked specificaly) so in regards to debt collectors, no chance because they would be in breach of what they sold ME!
they are not providing a service they sold me (from the phone call when i initially ordered i was told by the CS on the phone (recorded there end obviously) totaly unlimited... no caps or shaping (i asked specificaly) so in regards to debt collectors, no chance because they would be in breach of what they sold ME!
So what you're saying is that you have an exclusive contract with them that no-one else has because you didn't read the small print and/or terms&conditions??
As they say it's your credit rating
So what you're saying is that you have an exclusinve contract with them that no-one else has becuase you didn;t read the small print and/or terms&conditions??
As they say it's your credit rating
I sure hope he has a good lawyer then. :)
they are not providing a service they sold me (from the phone call when i initially ordered i was told by the CS on the phone (recorded there end obviously) totaly unlimited... no caps or shaping (i asked specificaly) so in regards to debt collectors, no chance because they would be in breach of what they sold ME!
So when you wake up in the real world with ruined credit rating all because you failed to read the terms and conditions of your contract with Virginmedia and then refused to pay for your services because you did not read the small print, I am afraid that pleading ignorance is not allowed to be used as a defence.
kwikbreaks
26-07-2010, 10:45
OK - a variation on this then...
On all the other packages there is an automatically applied throttle once a threshold download level has been reached. Presumably these thresholds and throttling levels have been set to avoid the user impacting others on the network - does this mean that only 50Mbps customers can get an AUP warning based on data volumes?
Nope, all levels can incur a letter and it has been noted before on 20Mb users even with STM.. Suprised I've not got one on 10Mb ;)
I would like to know how you people download so much. I mean over a 100gb takes some doing if it is all legal. All the moaners are the ones who hammer the network and should be punished as they are ruining it for the rest of us.
Just watching HD vids on the catch up players such as iplayer, 4od, 5demand, itv could very easily give you 100Gb +
broadbandking
26-07-2010, 21:16
I would like to know how you people download so much. I mean over a 100gb takes some doing if it is all legal. All the moaners are the ones who hammer the network and should be punished as they are ruining it for the rest of us.
Interesting you say that but you have the 50Mb service how come if you don't download much?
frogstamper
26-07-2010, 21:29
I sure hope he has a good lawyer then. :)
Maybe Gary L could represent him, as far as VM goes there isn't much he doesn't know, heck there isn't much Gary doesn't know full stop..:D
Interesting you say that but you have the 50Mb service how come if you don't download much?
Sure I might not be one of these heavy downloaders, however with 20mb when I did decide to get something of reasonable size I always ended up getting capped. With 50mb, if I decide to go crazy one night, I can be safe in the knowledge I won't get my speeds cut. It is a bit like my laptop, I could have spent £500 for the use I get out of it. However the odd time I want to game, or do some heavy encoding / photoshop. Hence I spent £1100 on my Asus as it gives me power on tap.
It is the same with my TV service. I probably watch about 10% of the available channels on a regular basis, and Sky Sports only if there is football. The rest of the channels get a look every now and again. However it would bug me if I did not have the top package and could not access the channel the one time I wanted to watch something.
pip08456
26-07-2010, 22:35
I would like to know how you people download so much. I mean over a 100gb takes some doing if it is all legal. All the moaners are the ones who hammer the network and should be punished as they are ruining it for the rest of us.
A very broad,sweeping comment with a "Holier than thou" attitude. :erm:
A very broad,sweeping comment with a "Holier than thou" attitude. :erm:
Not really, whichever way you look at it 100gb plus on a regular basis means a lot of downloading or constant streaming. The iPlayer argument holds no substance when it is freely available on TV catchup. Basically 100gb is 3.5gb a day 7 days a week over the course of 28 days.
pip08456
26-07-2010, 23:58
100GB may be construed as a lot for one person with one PC (note the may) but what about a family?
One PC and say 4 laptops, each family member using 20GB? Is that excessive?
BTW I do not have a TV account with VM or any other provider.
BTW I do not have a TV account with VM or any other provider.
Indeed its one of the reason iplayer is so good. No Tv needed :)
kwikbreaks
27-07-2010, 09:09
Sure I might not be one of these heavy downloaders, however with 20mb when I did decide to get something of reasonable size I always ended up getting capped.
On 20Mbps you are allowed 3.5GB between 16:00 and 21:00 and still get 5Mbps even if you are capped which is more than the UK national average.
Certainly I've never hit the limit and I wouldn't regard myself as a light user - maybe your usage isn't so frugal after all.
Not really, whichever way you look at it 100gb plus on a regular basis means a lot of downloading or constant streaming. The iPlayer argument holds no substance when it is freely available on TV catchup. Basically 100gb is 3.5gb a day 7 days a week over the course of 28 days.
Not really, a lot of people including myself do not have the VM TV service.. Any catch-up TV is always done over the internet (especially on the laptop in bed with a nice cup of horlicks)
Indeed its one of the reason iplayer is so good. No Tv needed :)
But sadly aTV licence is needed.:(
dilli-theclaw
27-07-2010, 10:17
But sadly aTV licence is needed.:(That depends what you watch on it.
http://iplayerhelp.external.bbc.co.uk/help/about_iplayer/tvlicence
That depends what you watch on it.
http://iplayerhelp.external.bbc.co.uk/help/about_iplayer/tvlicence
So you have to be careful what you watch otherwise you will need to buy a licence, but as long as you only stream non live through the PC.
But if you use a Television set even to stream I expect that they will still want the licence fee as that is built to watch TV and that is why you must provide an address when purchasing a tv and it may even have an inbuilt freeview tuner.
But sadly aTV licence is needed.:(
Not true, only live/simulcast broadcasts need a TV licence and they don;t tend to be on iplayer but instead via the news or other BBC sites. The iPlayer service is for and I quote
"Catch up on the last 7 days of BBC TV & Radio"
dilli-theclaw
27-07-2010, 10:25
So you have to be careful what you watch otherwise you will need to buy a licence, but as long as you only stream non live through the PC.
But if you use a Television set I expect that they will still want the licence fee as that is built to watch TV and that is why you must provide an address when purchasing a tv and it may even have an inbuilt freeview tuner.No, if you only use your tv for vcr / dvd (playback) or connect it to a pc for example you don't need a license either.
http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/faqs/FAQ15/
Not true, only live/simulcast broadcasts need a TV licence and they don;t tend to be on iplayer but instead via the news or other BBC sites. The iPlayer service is for and I quote
"Catch up on the last 7 days of BBC TV & Radio"
I know Thomas beat you to it.;)
Is this a race?
No its not in the F1 thread.;)
Chrysalis
27-07-2010, 13:21
Indeed its one of the reason iplayer is so good. No Tv needed :)
yeah I been watching ahem listening to tv (my eyes too bad in evenings at the moment) on iplayer here, as no tv in this room. Laptop bit small and poor sound but on my home pc it would be something I could get used to.
---------- Post added at 13:21 ---------- Previous post was at 13:18 ----------
I know Thomas beat you to it.;)
iplayer does also live stream and last night on dragons den I even heard the sound from my sister's tv was lagged behind the internet stream, I expected it the other way round.
On 20Mbps you are allowed 3.5GB between 16:00 and 21:00 and still get 5Mbps even if you are capped which is more than the UK national average.
Certainly I've never hit the limit and I wouldn't regard myself as a light user - maybe your usage isn't so frugal after all.
My point is when I do decided to download something it can invariably be big. So yes it would be over 3.5gb on some occasions, at which point I would be capped. If there is a stats page to show how little I download then I will gladly post it to prove my point. :D
vBulletin® v3.8.11, Copyright ©2000-2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.