PDA

View Full Version : Traffic Management & Extreme Latency.

Ryuichi
01-05-2010, 12:47
Having been with Virgin Media for quite some time, I've gotten used to the traffic management and the eventual slowing down of my service after downloading relatively large amounts of data.

However recently, after getting back into PC gaming the Traffic management has caused serious issues, as when it kicks in it seems to dramatically increase latency (or packet loss).

Gaming isn't particularly bandwidth intensive, so I'd expect that I'd be able to be able to game fine during periods of bandwidth throttling, just experience slower browsing or downloading, but most of my games become completely unplayable online as latency spikes.

I'm currently experiencing what I believe is traffic management at the moment and am experiencing pings of >700 for nearby servers.

http://www.pingtest.net/result/15940306.png

Here's a traceroute to bbc.co.uk which usually produces pings of <30 - If you need any more information to help diagnose my issue I'd be happy to provide it.

http://i42.tinypic.com/j8gyvc.png

Thanks in advance.
Ryuichi
08-05-2010, 18:26
Another Saturday of being STM'd and another Saturday of extremely high latency - making games unplayable.

Is this normal, when traffic management is in place?
Ryuichi
19-06-2010, 18:56
Bump, if anyone has any further information on what I can do to get my ping in check, that'd be great.
alferret
19-06-2010, 20:31
I would suggest leaving your downloads till after you have had your fill of online gaming then do your DL'ing, simples ;)
Chrysalis
20-06-2010, 05:15
it would seem STM isnt a simple throttle they must be deliberatly adding latency to add motivation for people to avoid been stm'd

I have never actually been stm'd so my guess is based on your report.
kwikbreaks
20-06-2010, 08:06
It's probably a very simple throttle which is why there is packet loss. If you remember Entanet made a big deal about their throttling when the centrals were approaching full capacity not increasing latency and packet loss - they even called it a the anti-loss tool or some such.

On the current 10Mbps package the evening cap is 1.5GB and for 20Mbps it is 3.5GBps. I think you'd need to work hard just gaming to exceed either so this is either an old package, not gaming, or not throttling.
browney
20-06-2010, 08:14
Do you have other people using your network? if your on 10Mb and get throttled down to 2Mb and someone else is using the internet you will find poor in game performance. I know I did.

I haven't been on STM for about a year it's very easy to download out of peak time hours.
Ignitionnet
20-06-2010, 09:04
it would seem STM isnt a simple throttle they must be deliberatly adding latency to add motivation for people to avoid been stm'd

I have never actually been stm'd so my guess is based on your report.

Woah there. STM has no parameter to add latency.

---------- Post added at 09:03 ---------- Previous post was at 09:01 ----------

It's probably a very simple throttle which is why there is packet loss. If you remember Entanet made a big deal about their throttling when the centrals were approaching full capacity not increasing latency and packet loss - they even called it a the anti-loss tool or some such.

The ALT was actually also a very simple throttle, it dynamically slowed down all the subscribers connected to a particular central in set increments until usage dropped below a certain threshold and didn't increase them again until usage dropped below a further threshold.

This just adjusted the bandwidth limit being applied at Enta's LNS it was nothing too exotic.

---------- Post added at 09:04 ---------- Previous post was at 09:03 ----------

STM is certainly misfiring. It's not, by design, supposed to increase latency.

Good luck getting this logged with tech support though...
Kymmy
20-06-2010, 09:07
I think this comment about other people using the connection is the reason for the latency.. A STM'd 10Mb connection should be fine for gaming (2.5M/126K) but if others are trying to max out the stm'd connection then yes that will slow things down.

Either get a router that you can prioritise your connection or at least throttle the other users ;)
jb66
20-06-2010, 09:22
Or upgrade
Chrysalis
20-06-2010, 20:01
Woah there. STM has no parameter to add latency.

---------- Post added at 09:03 ---------- Previous post was at 09:01 ----------



well what causes the latency then, because a simple cap down to 25% wont cause it.

Is it possible that stm'd people get routed differently and the equipment handling stm is causing the latency due to it taking that amount of time to process the packets?
Mr Angry
20-06-2010, 20:12
Is it possible that stm'd people get routed differently and the equipment handling stm is causing the latency due to it taking that amount of time to process the packets?

Interesting proposition.
Ignitionnet
20-06-2010, 21:53
well what causes the latency then, because a simple cap down to 25% wont cause it.

Is it possible that stm'd people get routed differently and the equipment handling stm is causing the latency due to it taking that amount of time to process the packets?

Evidently STM is not working properly or there is a customer-side saturation of the newly throttled bandwidth, and no STM'd people aren't routed differently nor is the equipment handling STM causing the additional latency unless there is a software issue somewhere causing it as STM is handled by the uBR and STM is just a triggered parameter change, the actual enforcement is done by the same mechanisms as the normal speeds.

May I suggest a read of the documentation relating to STM (http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/cable/cmts/feature/ubsubmon.html) before making these assumptions?
Ruki
20-06-2010, 23:49
VM is a joke. I am currently looking for a new provider. I have no tv in my office (work from home) and streamed a few world cup matches on bbc i player this week. Everytime I'd get STM'd. Is it too much to ask for 2gb peak time? (im on 10mb) Surely not.
pip08456
20-06-2010, 23:53
http://help.virginmedia.com/system/selfservice.controller?CONFIGURATION=1002&PARTITION_ID=1&TIMEZONE_OFFSET=&USERTYPE=1&VM_USER_TYPE=Cable&CMD=VIEW_ARTICLE&ARTICLE_ID=2781
Ignitionnet
21-06-2010, 08:37
VM is a joke. I am currently looking for a new provider. I have no tv in my office (work from home) and streamed a few world cup matches on bbc i player this week. Everytime I'd get STM'd. Is it too much to ask for 2gb peak time? (im on 10mb) Surely not.

I completely agree, as do Virgin which is why they have the 20Mbit XL service which has higher STM thresholds and 50Mbit which has none. There's also the business services for those who use more during office hours.

Of course these do require paying more.
jb66
21-06-2010, 08:41
If you don't like being throttled upgrade, it seems folk want the cheapest bb but have no drawbacks
rainer
21-06-2010, 08:58
There is a way around traffic management surely? If I you change the referer url to something like youtube.com which is uncapped by throttles you should never get capped?
Kymmy
21-06-2010, 09:00
Nope


Now excuse me whilst I download an 8Gb file on my 10Mb cable at full speed ;)
Ignitionnet
21-06-2010, 09:03
There is a way around traffic management surely? If I you change the referer url to something like youtube.com which is uncapped by throttles you should never get capped?

The system VM use doesn't care where you go or what you do just how much data you shift. It's completely protocol agnostic and network neutral.
rainer
21-06-2010, 09:29
Is it different at weekends? I managed to download about 20gb yesterday before getting capped.
Red Squirrel
21-06-2010, 11:13
Is that link posted earlier their latest traffic management ? I thought 20 Mbit was managed too ? But it's not in the table, nor is 50Mbit
AbyssUnderground
21-06-2010, 12:18
Is that link posted earlier their latest traffic management ? I thought 20 Mbit was managed too ? But it's not in the table, nor is 50Mbit

The data overflows behind another part of the site so it can't be seen. Just a small glitch nobody has seen or fixed yet.
pip08456
21-06-2010, 12:47
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2010/06/43.jpg

And I hadn't noticed.
caph
22-06-2010, 07:13
Another Saturday of being STM'd and another Saturday of extremely high latency - making games unplayable.

Is this normal, when traffic management is in place?

Hi Ryuichi. We need to know if you are actually STMed or if you are just assuming you are. The next time it happens can you log in to your modem and post the Operation Config. stats. That will tell us for definite one way or the other.
roughbeast
30-06-2010, 20:55
If you don't like being throttled upgrade, it seems folk want the cheapest bb but have no drawbacks

Agreed. This is a typical peak time speedtest for me.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2010/06/1.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

My average speed is 50.66Mb.

It is worth every penny to have no throttling, latency below 60ms and no caps. 24/7.

Cross fingers that 50mb is never traffic managed.
Ignitionnet
30-06-2010, 21:19
Hi Ryuichi. We need to know if you are actually STMed or if you are just assuming you are. The next time it happens can you log in to your modem and post the Operation Config. stats. That will tell us for definite one way or the other.

Operating config doesn't change when under STM enforcement.
Chrysalis
05-08-2010, 21:11
Well for the first time I am now stm'd.

Also I am guessing I am bad with the timing stm'd from 8.40ish pm but not took off at 9pm so most of the 5 hours will be outside of the STM period.

Regarding latency yes it did shoot up whilst downloading (similiar to adsl but a bit higher to 400ms) but when the connection is idle its normal, so I am wondering if the OP's connection was idle when he posted his figures.
pip08456
05-08-2010, 22:41
I would've thought by now Chrys you would know that the STM would remain in force from the time you exceeded the limit. Looks like you're STM'd til about 1.40am.Definately a case of bad timing!