View Full Version : 100mbit? don't make me laugh
General Maximus
27-02-2010, 18:50
Virgin haven't even finished doing the upgrades they need to do to get 50mbit running properly and they are already flouting 100mbit. I am normally happy to give praise where praise is due but in this case it is winding me up. I would rather have a solid 50/10 line than whatever stupid ratio they are going to come up with for 100mbit (100/5?).
calmpitbull
27-02-2010, 19:09
I can't speak for other areas but in Nottingham we have a very reliable 50meg service despite all the students. Apart from a particular UBR (being worked on) its all good i'm afraid.
Spectato
27-02-2010, 19:12
The new 'flagship products' are good for grabbing headlines and stimulating sales.
Gotta keep packing in those new customers (victims).
Sephiroth
27-02-2010, 19:29
It may be tempting for some to say that VM haven't got it right now so at 100 Mbps they will also get it wrong.
On the other hand, I'd like to think that the 100 Mbps roll out will see the necessary upstream performance adjustments such as channel bonding and sufficient bandwidth.
General Maximus
27-02-2010, 19:35
I agree dude, Lincoln connects to the main thing in Nottingham and my connection has always been solid, I just think they need to do mmore with the upstream rather than increasing downstream. Tbh, the only time I get my 5mbps is if I am using torrents or newsgroups. It would be nice to download even faster than I am now, but I would prefer increased upload speed instead.
I agree dude, Lincoln connects to the main thing in Nottingham and my connection has always been solid, I just think they need to do mmore with the upstream rather than increasing downstream. Tbh, the only time I get my 5mbps is if I am using torrents or newsgroups. It would be nice to download even faster than I am now, but I would prefer increased upload speed instead.
I don't use torrents (far to insecure) i prefer newsgroups or ftp. So speeds like this on a Saturday night prove to me they have it right. Yes upload increase might seem nice but i feel they will introduce speed controls on torrents and the like before they increase the upload dramaticaly.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2010/02/2.png
i don't understand the fuss about upstream speeds what people tend to forget imo is that vm and all other providers are chiefly concerned with supplying to general household users only a very small number of those wish to upoad vast amounts of data ,if you want commercial speeds get a commercial connection and quit whining
AbyssUnderground
27-02-2010, 20:19
A lot more people use more upload than you would expect, with social networking etc now around.
Personally I require a lot because of the work I do, yet NO provider can provide decent speeds. I do web design, graphic design and photography, and I can produce GB's of data every day on occasion. With a pitiful 512Kbps on the 10Mbps service, how am I expected to upload that data? It takes hours to complete, and I get STM'ed if I do it in peak ours!
A lot more people use more upload than you would expect, with social networking etc now around.
Personally I require a lot because of the work I do, yet NO provider can provide decent speeds. I do web design, graphic design and photography, and I can produce GB's of data every day on occasion. With a pitiful 512Kbps on the 10Mbps service, how am I expected to upload that data? It takes hours to complete, and I get STM'ed if I do it in peak ours!
well arent you using a connection designed for home use not buisness use ,don't vm do a special connection for buisness users ?i don't know a lot about it so please excuse my ignorance but it does seem that a lot of people are using a home connection for buisness use
AbyssUnderground
27-02-2010, 20:34
I never said I was using it for business purposes, however I do the above things as hobbies for myself and friends. You don't have to be a business to justify a good connection...
I never said I was using it for business purposes, however I do the above things as hobbies for myself and friends. You don't have to be a business to justify a good connection...
but isn't the end result the same whether you earn money from it or not ,you still need buisness up speeds from a domestic line which isn't designed for it
Sephiroth
27-02-2010, 21:00
Even the meagre upload ratio we now get would look better if people in congested areas could just get their upstream timeslots when requested.
Uploads are very important to people, e-mails with attachments, etc.
how am I expected to upload that data? It takes hours to complete, and I get STM'ed if I do it in peak ours!
A very good reason to upgrade to 50Mb Andy ;)
1.65Mb would certainly help your cause and no shaping :)
Sephiroth
27-02-2010, 21:07
A very good reason to upgrade to 50Mb Andy ;)
1.65Mb would certainly help your cause and no shaping :)
If you're in an uncongested area and can thus get an on demand upstream timeslot.
I do look forward to 100Mb tho, but they MUST do something with the upload speed otherwise they will just look silly!
100Mb down
5Mb up
That would be laughable, Id still upgrade to it tho ;)
---------- Post added at 21:08 ---------- Previous post was at 21:07 ----------
If you're in an uncongested area and can thus get an on demand upstream timeslot.
Lots of people do ;) and have a rock solid completely reliable 50Mb service.
maybe the rollout of 100mb will herald a new era in upload speeds for everyone and then we will all be happy :D
One thing that very few people are considering is that most home router firewalls struggle to get 50mb through put let alone 100mb.
Just something too think about.
One thing that very few people are considering is that most home router firewalls struggle to get 50mb through put let alone 100mb.
Just something too think about.
100Mb will be a problem I agree there.
But any decent modern router is not going to struggle with 50Mb when wired, unless youve bought a total pile of steaming pooh.
The Netgear WNR2000 provided by VM and my older Linksys WRT54GL handle 50Mb no problem, please see sig :)
Ignitionnet
27-02-2010, 22:07
i don't understand the fuss about upstream speeds what people tend to forget imo is that vm and all other providers are chiefly concerned with supplying to general household users only a very small number of those wish to upoad vast amounts of data ,if you want commercial speeds get a commercial connection and quit whining
So how many general household users have any interest in 50Mbit?
Precisely. I don't understand all the fuss about it to be honest and consider it all about the PR.
Incidentally BT seem to think people care given they have a 10Mbit upstream option on their new product. Maybe they do, maybe they don't but at least they have the option if they do care to pay more and have it.
---------- Post added at 22:04 ---------- Previous post was at 22:01 ----------
I don't use torrents (far to insecure) i prefer newsgroups or ftp. So speeds like this on a Saturday night prove to me they have it right. Yes upload increase might seem nice but i feel they will introduce speed controls on torrents and the like before they increase the upload dramaticaly.
I agree with you on the torrents speed control. Given that with 100Mbit downstream a single customer can eat half an entire area's bandwidth it would make a lot of sense to introduce controls on newsgroups as well.
Last time a tier was released that allowed a single customer to nosh half an area's bandwidth, 20Mbit out of an available 38Mbit, it came with STM.
---------- Post added at 22:07 ---------- Previous post was at 22:04 ----------
Virgin haven't even finished doing the upgrades they need to do to get 50mbit running properly and they are already flouting 100mbit. I am normally happy to give praise where praise is due but in this case it is winding me up. I would rather have a solid 50/10 line than whatever stupid ratio they are going to come up with for 100mbit (100/5?).
I think we knew how this thread would go. Usual mix of 'I agree' and 'I'm alright Jack'.
It was well known VM would start on this project this year, BT will start getting 40Mbit available to a significant number of people with potential to go up to 60 so something needed to be done to keep the speed advantage downstream anyway.
calmpitbull
27-02-2010, 23:17
I think we knew how this thread would go. Usual mix of 'I agree' and 'I'm alright Jack'.
What other answers are there?
I do agree that speeds are getting way to high for the average user and is all about the PR. I browse the web, email and design websites, 2mb down and 500k up would easily be sufficient for me. It just seems a status thing nowadays to have the quickest internet, however totally un-necessary for most users.
Ignitionnet
28-02-2010, 00:37
What other answers are there?
Exactly ;)
My bandwidth requirements are higher due to video conferencing, remote working and occasional shifting of some pretty large files across optimised TCP links but in all fairness 25/2.5 is ample most of the time, something like the 25/5 that Comcast sell in the US would be ideal.
If it is a free upgrade then I am not going to complain. So long as it is traffic management free. I'd rather have a 50mbit download rate traffic managment free, than 100 mbit with trafficmanagent. I am not a heavy user I just like to download when I like.
If it is a free upgrade then I am not going to complain. So long as it is traffic management free. I'd rather have a 50mbit download rate traffic managment free, than 100 mbit with trafficmanagent. I am not a heavy user I just like to download when I like.
Really good point, and i hope VM listen to customers like us, the 50mb roll out was rushed, as a preview customer i spent over 3 months, with a service up and down like a yo-yo. In the end VM lent me a spare 20mb modem to use when the 50mb went offline due to the very tight Signal requirements for the service to work. So if i am typical of a customer who might buy into the 100mb sales pitch then VM better make sure it works first.
Because i dont want to be suckered into another PR and marketing stunt.
It's also worth noting that Higher upload speeds generally equal lower latency which is a must for online gamers and is a big help if you have a house full of people using VOIP like skype. There is only so much downstream that can be used realistically but it is handy to have it for bursts e.g. download a 4GB Iso in half the time even if that is the only time you use the connection all day, I know a lot of people who would consider that value for money.
Milambar
28-02-2010, 13:54
I don't care about willy-waving download speeds. They are nice, but 20MB down which I get (realistically I only get about 16MB down except at 4am in the morning), is perfectly fine for my usage.
What I want is a decent UPLOAD speed. Yanno, I don't want it to take 45 minutes to send a short video or picture or voice clip, to my girlfriend who is currently working in the USA. Especially when she can send similar sized files to me in a matter of seconds. She gets a significantly larger (I think its 5MB) upload rate on a 10MB download package... Go figure.
beasty54
28-02-2010, 15:07
I don't care about willy-waving download speeds. They are nice, but 20MB down which I get (realistically I only get about 16MB down except at 4am in the morning), is perfectly fine for my usage.
What I want is a decent UPLOAD speed. Yanno, I don't want it to take 45 minutes to send a short video or picture or voice clip, to my girlfriend who is currently working in the USA. Especially when she can send similar sized files to me in a matter of seconds. She gets a significantly larger (I think its 5MB) upload rate on a 10MB download package... Go figure.
I want, i want, i want!!! You sound like a 10 year old having a tantrum.
We all want higher upload speeds, i certainly do but its clearly not something the majority of people in this country care about, this country is all about how cheap things are so the average jo is happy with an 8mb / 0.5mb connection for £7 a month.
I have 20mb down, and 0.7mb up (except the up pretends it is only a 0.3mb, and is good at the disguise) :)
I want more up..10-1 ratio would be nice
Ignitionnet
28-02-2010, 16:11
I want, i want, i want!!! You sound like a 10 year old having a tantrum.
We all want higher upload speeds, i certainly do but its clearly not something the majority of people in this country care about, this country is all about how cheap things are so the average jo is happy with an 8mb / 0.5mb connection for £7 a month.
As you rightly say the majority are fine with cheap service. The frustration is born from Neil Berkett getting his e-peen out about 100Mbit which even fewer people will take up than 50Mbit while having no comments about upstream, he having announced 6 months ago that Virgin would be trialling higher upstream and it only getting to a second small area trial last month.
I think people have every right to say 'I want'. If Virgin are happy to give people what they don't really want as far as ever higher downstream speeds go just to wave the e-penis at BT people are right to comment on something they do actually want :)
beasty54
28-02-2010, 17:48
As you rightly say the majority are fine with cheap service. The frustration is born from Neil Berkett getting his e-peen out about 100Mbit which even fewer people will take up than 50Mbit while having no comments about upstream, he having announced 6 months ago that Virgin would be trialling higher upstream and it only getting to a second small area trial last month.
I think people have every right to say 'I want'. If Virgin are happy to give people what they don't really want as far as ever higher downstream speeds go just to wave the e-penis at BT people are right to comment on something they do actually want :)
Ok fair enough, and as i said, i would like higher upload as well. I suppose it just gets boring hearing it after a while because there will always be a few of us that would give anything for more upload but the masses would rather have the cheaper option. Untill theres higher demand and more competition out there we'll probably never see what we would consider an acceptable upload speed.
Ignitionnet
28-02-2010, 18:16
Ok fair enough, and as i said, i would like higher upload as well. I suppose it just gets boring hearing it after a while because there will always be a few of us that would give anything for more upload but the masses would rather have the cheaper option. Untill theres higher demand and more competition out there we'll probably never see what we would consider an acceptable upload speed.
http://skyhispeedbb.com/ will get VM's attention when it is more widely available. Openreach sadly don't have the manpower to get it done more quickly.
The tech BT are using will be able to do up to 80Mbps downstream and 20Mbps up.
The problem with Sky's offer is you need their blooming sky TV package and Sky talk, as well.
Ignitionnet
28-02-2010, 23:49
The problem with Sky's offer is you need their blooming sky TV package and Sky talk, as well.
You don't 'need' Sky Talk you just have to pay a bit extra if you don't have it, kinda like how you pay more if you don't have a Virgin phone line.
Re: The TV, very true. They have to make their money somewhere because they aren't making much of it on the internet products.
VM are also somewhat perturbed by BT's announcement of fibre to at least 2.5 million homes within 2 years, these services will start at 100/15 as a maximum and are capable of 1Gbps and up. For all the 'fibre optic' waffle VM cannot match fibre to the home and they know it.
Correct me if I am wrong but BT are doing fibre to the cabinet, not fibre to the home yes? Also going from the cabinet to the home, Coaxial cable is capable of much better quality of conneciton than the standard copper land line yes?
I know we are using the current standard of docsis 3 at the moment up to 200mbit, but isn't there the chance that we could get 1gbit using fibre to the cabinet and coaxial to the home in the future? Not now of course just looking ahead. I am sure someone with more technical knowledge could explain what the limits are.
Ignitionnet
01-03-2010, 11:46
Correct me if I am wrong but BT are doing fibre to the cabinet, not fibre to the home yes? Also going from the cabinet to the home, Coaxial cable is capable of much better quality of conneciton than the standard copper land line yes?
I know we are using the current standard of docsis 3 at the moment up to 200mbit, but isn't there the chance that we could get 1gbit using fibre to the cabinet and coaxial to the home in the future? Not now of course just looking ahead. I am sure someone with more technical knowledge could explain what the limits are.
DOCSIS 3 goes up to as many channels as can be bonded really. 200M with 4, 400 with 8, if you can find 20 channels to bond, 160MHz on the cable network, you can do 1Gbit.
Be aware we won't be seeing this for some time and it would be remarkably difficult to get right, to the point where simply running fibre the rest of the way and doing RF over Glass (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Frequency_over_Glass) then migrating to a full Passive Optical Network (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_optical_network) would probably make more sense.
How many channels could be bonded on the Virgin Media network in its current state?
Re: The TV, very true. They have to make their money somewhere because they aren't making much of it on the internet products.
I would much rather pay a higher premium on their broadband, than have sky tv. (I never watch TV, except when Lost is on, heh)
http://skyhispeedbb.com/ will get VM's attention when it is more widely available. Openreach sadly don't have the manpower to get it done more quickly.
The tech BT are using will be able to do up to 80Mbps downstream and 20Mbps up.
Sky will be able to connect customers to the internet using this new infrastructure and provide up to 100Meg downstream and up to 10Meg upstream speeds.
In Parts of Sweden right now they can get 100Mbit up and Down for about the same price as we have to fork out for 50mbit Down and 1.5mbit Up, I Would like at least 10Mbit Upload on the 50mbit and more for the 100mbit up coming specially as BT's Fibre Service offers 40mbit download and 10mbit upload not that you will get it anytime soon in all but a few areas for now, Why is the UK Upload speeds about half of Europe's as a whole if you look at stats on speedtest.net
Some other countries have deployed fibre to the home which would support faster connections, but with us we only have fibre to the cabinet with cable going the rest of the way. Hopefully sometime in the future we will get fibre to the home.
Ignitionnet
02-03-2010, 21:03
Sky will be able to connect customers to the internet using this new infrastructure and provide up to 100Meg downstream and up to 10Meg upstream speeds.
Ya, that applies to the Fibre To The Premises trials, none of which are Sky's trial areas. Fibre is going to Highams Park and Milton Keynes initially and neither is ready yet. BT are using VDSL profile 8c on their fibre to cabinet service hence my mention of approximate max speeds of 80/20.
BT have actually stated they want to serve approximately 2.5 million homes with fibre to the home by 2012 in addition to 7.5 million with fibre to the cabinet.
RyuKokoro
02-03-2010, 23:24
It's a bit typical of VM to start rolling out a higher-bandwidth product when they've not even got the existing ones right. For example, I'm on 10mbps with VM and struggle to get 1mbps during peak times. Sure, I expect it to be slower but I work for an ADSL company and have known customers 4 - 5km away from their local exchange getting better speeds on Datastream. I'm on Rusholme exchange though so am keeping a sharp eye out for FTTC rollout!
Slightly off-topic, but does anybody know who's trialling or has rolled out BT's FTTC on the announced exchanges?
broadbandking
02-03-2010, 23:44
I am actually looking forward to seeing this, VM may have some major upgrade plans, but we will see, I know there is problems but they have to be sorted or its bad news for VM.
I am actually looking forward to see the news on the upload as it has to be around 10Mb to match BT, but with the comments regarding upstream issues and work that will need to be done it will be well worth it for VM to do the major upgrades, all I say is roll on end of 2010.
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