What customer data do VM log?

[whysoserious2009]

Hi guys, ive been reading lately a little bit on how virgin media are gonna start this new packet sniffing scheme to detect whether users are downloading pirate software or not which has made me wonder..

What exactly do virgin media log for every customer at the moment and how long do they keep the information for?

Anyone know?
Thnx

[Ignitionnet]

Traffic wise they don't really log anything. They log how much you use, how often you trip the STM throttling, apart from that essential things to running cable networks, nothing personally identifiable.

Virgin's 'packet sniffing scheme' will in no way be personally identifiable.

Apart from that the usual stuff, name, address, telephone, bank details for DD customers, etc, all essential to running the account.

I would actually recommend that you ask Virgin these questions though, I have my doubts that anyone could give you much more information than I have above.

[whysoserious2009]

Thanks for the reply.

Do they not log things like what websites you've been on, webpages, emails, instant message convos, downloads, IP addresses ect?

[Peter_]

Thanks for the reply.

Do they not log things like what websites you've been on, webpages, emails, instant message convos, downloads, IP addresses ect?
That would take up valuable space and therefore require your bill to so much higher to pay for that space, so no.

[Ignitionnet]

Thanks for the reply.

Do they not log things like what websites you've been on, webpages, emails, instant message convos, downloads, IP addresses ect?

Absolutely not, that would be illegal without a warrant.

http://security.homeoffice.gov.uk/ripa/about-ripa/

[Sir John Luke]

Absolutely not, that would be illegal without a warrant.

http://security.homeoffice.gov.uk/ripa/about-ripa/

...which is why Phorm phailed.

[Ignitionnet]

That would take up valuable space and therefore require your bill to so much higher to pay for that space, so no.

The issue of legality should also not be understated. VM store a load of dubiously useful gack on the modems on the network in data warehouses. Hard drive space is less than 7p per GB so cost isn't really an issue.

---------- Post added at 20:28 ---------- Previous post was at 20:27 ----------

...which is why Phorm phailed.

Yes well there's a subject we've seen quite enough of ;)

[Peter_]

The issue of legality should also not be understated. VM store a load of dubiously useful gack on the modems on the network in data warehouses. Hard drive space is less than 7p per GB so cost isn't really an issue.
No emails are stored in any capacity though once you download off the server and delete them they are gone forever, it is your responsibility to back up important files not your ISP.

It is amazing how many people think that all their emails are stored on servers and call in when they have formatted or similar and ask for a email they need and get most upset when told that they deleted it not us.;)

[Ignitionnet]

No emails are stored in any capacity though once you download off the server and delete them they are gone forever, it is your responsibility to back up important files not your ISP.

It is amazing how many people think that all their emails are stored on servers and call in when they have formatted or similar and ask for a email they need and get most upset when told that they deleted it not us.;)

Depends on your client, most of them by default do delete them though. Clever people set theirs to leave them be :)

EDIT: Cleverer people just don't use ISP email :p:

[Peter_]

Depends on your client, most of them by default do delete them though. Clever people set theirs to leave them be :)

We know most do not.;)


EDIT: Cleverer people just don't use ISP email :p:
The answer I expected.;)

[whysoserious2009]

I would of thought though there would be Uk or European laws that would force ISP's to log some parts of customers activity so that the authorities can use this as evidence if any crimes are commited by the user..no?

Ive been reading that other countries like America and Germany, ISP's have to keep data for a certain period of time for this reason.

If theres no laws about ISP data retention in the Uk asides from basic account information then how have VM sent out letters in the past warning people to stop downloading copyrighted material if they dont monitor or log any user activity?
At the same time, if for instance someone on VM hacked into government computers, how would the authorities go about building a case against them if VM collects no data about the customers internet activity, would they only be able to get a warrant to force VM to START logging information rather than collecting any thats already present?

And finally i see another post on here that was posted a while ago, is this post not accurate?...

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34706909-post7.html

Thanks guys.

[Kymmy]

EDIT: Cleverer people just don't use ISP email :p:
The answer I expected.;)

Might have been expected but very true ;)

I don't think I've used an ISP email for at very least 10 years (probably longer)

[BenMcr]

If theres no laws about ISP data retention in the Uk asides from basic account information then how have VM sent out letters in the past warning people to stop downloading copyrighted material if they dont monitor or log any user activity?Because those letters are based upon the BPI monitoring illegal filesharing, and asking VM to send letters to their customers based on the IP address the BPI have recorded. It is not VM monitoring them, and no personal information is disclosed to the BPI.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7486743.stm (http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/jul/03/letters.filesharers)

At the same time, if for instance someone on VM hacked into government computers, how would the authorities go about building a case against them if VM collects no data about the customers internet activity, would they only be able to get a warrant to force VM to START logging information rather than collecting any thats already present?Anyone who has been hacked would have an IP address of who hacked them. VM record which IP address have been assigned to which customer. So via a court order or prosecution the IP address would be matched to the account that did the hacking.

[Kymmy]

Can I remind people that there are already threads about ACS/DL, VM's use of packet sniffing and Phorm. ;) All you have to do is search for them

[Ignitionnet]

I would of thought though there would be Uk or European laws that would force ISP's to log some parts of customers activity so that the authorities can use this as evidence if any crimes are commited by the user..no?

Ive been reading that other countries like America and Germany, ISP's have to keep data for a certain period of time for this reason.

If theres no laws about ISP data retention in the Uk asides from basic account information then how have VM sent out letters in the past warning people to stop downloading copyrighted material if they dont monitor or log any user activity?
At the same time, if for instance someone on VM hacked into government computers, how would the authorities go about building a case against them if VM collects no data about the customers internet activity, would they only be able to get a warrant to force VM to START logging information rather than collecting any thats already present?

And finally i see another post on here that was posted a while ago, is this post not accurate?...

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34706909-post7.html

Thanks guys.

No, there's been a load of argument over who pays for it in the UK. Coming soon though to an ISP near you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interception_Modernisation_Programme

[boredband]

No, there's been a load of argument over who pays for it in the UK. Coming soon though to an ISP near you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interception_Modernisation_Programme

Bloody hell :shocked: